Okie Dokie, folks... It seems the majority opinion is to give this queen some time and wait for warmer weather. I must say that I like that option. I don't WANT to kill this queen if it's not necessary and I hope it didn't come across that way in the video. I want the hive to SURVIVE. I know that re-queening is part of beekeeping: whether the bees do it themselves, or if a beekeeper does it for them. I'd love to let nature take its course and let the bees do it themselves. I was just concerned that they hadn't acted and if this queen truly was failing, they would not have suitable eggs left to do anything with. I do hope I'm wrong and this queen is just taking a break. And I hope we get some warm weather very, very soon. As always, I appreciate your comments, thoughts, suggestions, links and information.
Vino Farm if you do decided to replace the queen do not just smush her. Dispatch her with soapy water (instant death) take her out and put her in a vial with some alcohol. Then you can continue to use her pheromones as a swarm attractant.
Keep an eye on her. I hope she comes back strong like last year. Also, a while back I saw a video where the keeper was trying to get a hive to chill out and quit being aggressive, he squashed the queen then moved a queened hive on top of it separated by some news paper (it would take time for the bees to chew through, so they would acclimate to the pheromones). Could try that process with a new bee box to save the hive if the queen is failing.
You need to realize there is more then just one major problem with your idea of waiting . She is 3 years old possibly 4 so she is a failing queen and the longer you wait the more shes going to fail so less eggs. This increases the chance of not having a queen cell if it happens over time plus it will take even more time to bring back up the population . So there for less reserves for the winter diminishing the chance of the hive to over winter.
danameable Yes, I know this. That was the point of the video. I feel I've already been waiting a month and we're at the same place. No expansion. I'm going to wait just out of curiosity, but also because RUclips overwhelmingly told me to. We shall see what happens.
I would vote for letting them raise their own queen. She's treated you so well in the past, and was the lone survivor, so I would want to preserve her genetics.
Ok here is my 2 cents. I think you are hung up on the breeds. Queens always mate with random drones. She has other strains in her no matter what. We don't live in Italy and we don't live in Russia. I know breeders say the bees are a certain genetic, but once they mate, they take on the other genetics from the different drones. You should be more focused on what queen survives and how they perform regardless of the type. You said this queen is a "ROCK STAR". Ok that said, I don't think she is failing. She is only laying what her hive can support. I am in the Northeast as well and man this Spring Really sucks for bees. My two colonies are struggling and staying small. They can't keep the brood warm so the queen is not laying that much. Next weekend we get much warmer weather and I hope it lasts. I would wait and see. There are no Supersedure cells, that should be your indicator that she is still a good queen. She is only 2 years old! Some queens go 5 - 7 years! The colony doesnt feel they need to replace her. I don't think you need to either. The bees are reflecting the weather. I would give her time. If your other hives are blowing up, then add a frame of capped brood to this hive to boost population and maybe she will start filling up the frames. And that's my 2 cents.
Thomas Gordon Hi Thomas Gordon, your comments make the most sense to me. The weather plays a massive role in bee behavior, queens included. I am in eastern France in the prealps and my black bees have been very gentle in the past but today they were nasty, defensive and probably feeling cold too and i noticed my queen has dropped her egg laying off too and she is brand new this year. Again, no signs from the workers that anything is wrong , just managing with what they can right now.
I agree with giving her more time. I think it is easy to get ahead of ourselves with the thought of "what if". I am in Colorado and we are now starting to consistently get warm, sunny weather. A hive I collected from a swarm took about a month to start laying. It could have been related to lack of pollen and resources, the queen getting mated, or just me messing with feral bees. I would have thought there was no queen if I wouldn't have seen her upon inspection. I decided to wait and let them do what they know. Now, almost a month after hiving them, the frames are covered with brood. Also, you may be comparing them to your nucs which have a bit of a start with the number of bees and resources. In the end, though, it all depends on your gut. You do a great job and it's what works for you. Personally, I have one Italian hive which is my nice hive, and two hives from swarms that could very well be Russian (they are super protective, dark bees and love to buzz my face, lol). I like having the diversity, so I suggest you keep it that way whatever you choose to do. I started my beekeeping last spring like you. I absolutely LOVE your videos and so do my boys. I can't wait to see what you decide.
Thomas Gordon I believe you are right on all points. why are you so anxious to replace her. The hive knows best. If they are not wanting to get rid of her then just leave her bee. I would just be thankful they are not Actualized!!!
When looking at the hive and the amount of brood, the amount of bees should be taken into account. There isn't a large population in the hive, so they can't yet explode because they can't feed and keep warm that much brood. They won't lay more brood than they can keep warm, and looking at the cluster, it looks like the brood ball is pretty much the size of the cluster. I don't think you should pinch her quite yet. What I'd do if you have the resources in another hive, is find a frame of brood that is just starting to hatch, brush all the bees off, and give the frame to this colony. That way they get a big population boost within a couple days, they don't have a bunch of brood to take care of because they are shortly going to hatch, and you don't have any bee acceptance problems. Then see if she starts laying more.
My gut tells me that it wouldn't be a problem with unhatched worker brood, but I do not have direct experience with that specific situation. I would think that the only problem would be trying to introduce an already mated Russian queen. In addition, I would not let them raise a new queen. They just don't have the population to raise a good strong one.
Your suggestion makes sense and I would likely do the same except for one little issue. His Russian hives are in deep boxes and the Italians that he inherited from his neighbor are in a medium. the frames would swap from medium to deep but deep won't fit in medium
Why not try a hybrid solution? While you monitor the current queen over the next several weeks, you may consider getting a new queen, either Russian or Italian, and set up another brood-box using the other brood-frames. If the original queen does in fact fail, you would not have wasted the peak season. Best case scenario is you would now have 4 functioning hives.
I have no bees and no plans on getting any ever. I also don't own a farm, garden, or bakery. However, I love ur channel. Great camera work and very interesting. Thanks man
Hey neighbor! Ashburnham here again. You are a life saver!!! (Providing all of the comments from very knowledgeable people.) Inspected our hives this past weekend, found the same situation with one of our new nuc queens. Maybe 10-20 eggs. Very spotty brood pattern. Lots of pollen, a little bit of capped honey. The girls were irritable. On one of the cooler (40s) mornings, I noted workers pulling out brood from the hive. Not a lot, only two, but enough to cause an alarm. We've seen queen cups during each inspection, but by the next week, they had always been torn down, with new ones on different frames. Our other queen is a rockstar. There's 8 new frames of comb. The brood pattern is a work of art. Thousands of eggs. Larvae at various stages. Capped honey. Tons of pollen. Foraging levels have been similar between hives, but there is an extreme difference during orientation dances. I have spent every free minute since Saturday trying to rule out what's causing the spotty pattern. EFB. AFB. Diploid layer. Laying worker. Mites. Showed our video to 2 beeks. One said, "She's no good. Replace her." Other said, "It's been too cold. Give her time." It's June 6th. It looks like winter may be ending tomorrow. We're going to give her 2 weeks. I wish I had seen this video a couple of days ago, but I'll be able to sleep better tonight. So, thank you!
I love your videos! Thank you so much for making them, being honest about your experience, asking for advice but also talking with the "pros" and doing research. I have really enjoyed this journey with you, and have watched since last year. I have two new hives at my farm (so exciting!) split from my mentors hives, with a new queen added. So my advice is based on less experience than you have, and should obviously be taken with a grain of salt. I'm in southern Ontario Canada, so our weather is similar to what you've had. This week, one of our hives, only two months in, decided to swarm. My husband found the swarm, so my mentor and I went to check it out. We weren't sure if it was one of our hives that swarmed, or a wild swarm. It was one of ours. As we checked the boxes, we found two queen cells just about ready to go in one hive. The hive had enough space, food, good brood... So why did they make a couple new queens? The swarm that left with the old queen was really small, so my mentor put it in a nuc, and it's now between the two other hives, and we'll see if they make it. The point of all this, is that my opinion is if your hive isn't making a new queen, trust them. We had a split hive and a new queen, and in a very short time, she took off and left a couple new queen cells to race for the throne, and left us stumped as to why. Trust your hive to know what to do, they've made it this far. If they do make a queen cell, and you worry about timing, maybe purchase a new queen then, but if they aren't making a queen, i would like to think it's because the hive doesn't feel they need to. Keep up the amazing videos!
Depends on what you're trying to achieve; a crop of honey or just to get them through next winter? The latter? - then why would a month now matter? Option 4: make up a nuc with Italian eggs, but Russian bees. They raise your very own Italian queen, whilst your original muddles along until she's replaced by your home grown Italian in due course. Genetically it's all going to be mixed up anyways, whether you buy in or DIY.
I've recent watched all of your videos on beekeeping. You sir have inspired me a great deal. I just want you to know that you have the best video series on beekeeping in all of RUclips. I really hope the videos keep coming. Thank you for your time and effort. Keep it up man.
Vino Farm, When I installed my first swarm I lost the queen somewhere between the mother hive and my hive. Because of this the nuc was installed without a queen and with only a few frames of eggs and brood left. I eventually decided that I would just wait it out, although it was a gamble. Eventually the nuc was able to produce a queen and get her laying, although it did take a few weeks and my fingernails took a beating. I would say that it is definitely worth the risk if it pays off as you keep the survivor genetics of the prior queen. I have Italians myself so would say that if you were going to just re-queen to get another Italian, but if possible leave them to do what they can naturally? All the best, Ed.
Wow, Last time I commented you were only at like 2-4k, You're steadily growing, Just like the many bee hive's to come :) It's crazy how much one can learn about something. It almost brings into the same philosophy of horticulture, It's sweet ;) to see your work as you go and how you tackle the problems, And learn from them by keeping it simple.
Vino Farm I honestly don't know. Couple of weeks maybe? She's not a completely lost cause as there were some eggs. Maybe I'm just being sentimental instead of rational and want to see her make a comeback again. You've got a tough call to make, good luck!
The other variable to consider is that you've introduced the black plastic frame. Maybe you should put a pulled comb frame next to the cluster and see if she moves onto that frame as the weather warms up. If she doesn't start laying there, then you know she's done.
I'm in Michigan, same situation. I did what you're instinct was to put them into a nuc with pollen Patty and sugar/honey bee healthy/water. I put a frame of capped Russian hybrids in...they are really doing well! I suspect they can keep brood warm better, they don't have to spread out to patrol for beetles and moths and the boost of new workers...my queen filled the frame with eggs. She's back! Now I will make queen daughters from her.
Uuuhh, I had this delema not to long ago except I had an unmarked queen and couldn't find her or any worker cells. I ended up re-queening with a VSH queen. It will be time to check on her soon to see how she is getting on. I'm sentimental, but I would want to try and keep the rock star queen around a little longer to see if it's just the weather. Really hope things work out for you! I really enjoy your channel!
Also, if you do plan to requeen, I think you should stay with an Italian Queen. I think it would be interesting to have a little bit of variety to be able to see the differences side-by-side between an Italian hive and are Russian hive.
This is the first Spring coming out of Winter with bees for you. I vote for leaving them alone until it is steadily warmer. Use this as a learning tool for your area and climate. That way she gets a chance to be the rock star again and you will have a better understanding of how bees react after next Winter. Just keep the box small and let them fill it up before adding on again.
Something you could try, if you have the equipment and your mentor is willing to help. Take one of the frames and grab some eggs and put them in some Queen cups and just watch what happens. If it works you will have the same genetics from the Queen you now have. Mainly for your own experience and you like experimenting. It will also still allow for the need to order a Queen as well.
From a person who just watches your vids and knows nothing about bees beyond that I figure option 3 sounds like the best way to go. The sentimental part me kinda just thinks that hive should be left to its own devices and see if it bounces back or if you ever get queen cups on their own. Let them forge their own fate one way or the other! :) Good luck with what ever you do and keep up the great work.
I think you should feed pollen patties... it's there source of protein & if the eggs are being eaten because of lack of stores then this would solve that. I think for your 'rock star' queen & her hive are being frugal about the overall hive mgmt.
I would put them into a nuc, as they tend to build up alot faster. They have alot of room to police and keep the temperature stable for so few bees. I would also test for varroa and treat if necessary. If the nectar flow hasn't started you could try feeding 1:1 syrup to stimulate brood rearing. The queen will lay more if there is nectar or the equivalent coming in. She won't lay so much if she is being fed honey that is stored. You could wait a couple of weeks to see if this kicks her into gear. If not request with a mated Italian. That would be my plan. 😁
I would give her 2 weeks of warm weather above 60 degrees see if she starts laying, if not then she is probably done, I think you want to watch and see if any drones come out I would think if you see drones then something is going to happen
We haven't had two weeks above 60F. Maybe I'm jumping the gun. I can have patience, but something seems off. She was laying back in April when nights were still below freezing.
I would wait another two weeks as well. The queen is probably fine, it's just that the support staff number are small in number due to having a tough winter. I'd either pinch a brood frame from one of the other hives. Or just shake a whole heaps of bees from another hive into that hive.
60f is still pretty chilly. That's an average winter max temp where I am in Melbourne, Australia right now and there isn't a lot of activity. If you do decide to re-queen a mated queen, I'd go an Italian. They produce well here and as you say gives you genetic variety.
What I would do is that I would keep it Italian and it would be a learning experience for you and others to see the differences between the two types of bees concerning activity,laying,behavior,and honey production Good Luck Vinoooo
hello! I would highly recommend using existing eggs and brood to make a split of your current hive with one frame of open brood, frame of honey and shake bees on them to tend to the brood and create an emergency queen.. you can do this and requeen the hive with italian queen. I'm not sure how many hives you want, but that would give you 2 Russian and 2 Italian, with the genetics of the Italian that you describe as a Rockstar!
There were only about 15-20 eggs in the whole hive! I would consider doing that kind of split, but there aren't hardly any eggs. I'm going to let the weather warm up and see if she can squeeze out some more.
Vino Farm They only need a few. 😊. I bought my first package of bees this year, installed them Mar 27. Since then, by following the fat bee man's RUclips channel and instructions, I've grown the 1 package to 2 ten frame hives and 5 nucs that will be transferred to 8 or 10 frame Langstroth hives in the next 2 weeks. I'm trying to increase my hive count anticipating winter losses. Wishing you the best!
stonerman2k which of his instruction videos are you referring to? I would like to watch that one myself to grow my bees that much... But there are way too many for me to find.... unless u r just saying you watch his channel in general. But a package of bees growing to 2 hives and 5 nukes!?... that's amazing!
I'd put in a new Italian Queen so you have some variety. You might also see if Varroa is back, you might be losing bees as fast as she can make them. I believe that Sick workers bees always die out away from hive. A month or so back on youtube there was a great video on a bacteria that Varroa injects into bees causing them to be week even after the mites are treated for. If I find that video again I'll link it. I think this might be what did in your other two hives over winter.
personally, I would try to keep the genetics of the current queen going. Even when failing she managed to outlive two other hives. Given that u already have two new hives, I would think that it would be worth the risk to give it a go
You know I've been through this series multiple times but every time I feel like its the first time. That is either a compliment to your video/editing or a statement on a failing memory (mine). Either way I don't think I have ever reminded you that the Italians had (my guess) around one pound of bees - maybe much less - when they emerged from the winter. The Russians had three pounds when they started. Just reminding everyone.
P. S. It may be the same number of bees, but she had to replace all the winter bees with new spring bees. I would take note of how many of the bees are there now are nurse bees. oh, duh. how would you know - all the old bees would be out foraging and bringing in pollen and nectar, so only the nurse bees would be there anyway. never mind. but that would mean she had produced all those this spring as the winter bees would by now be dead or foraging.
My flow hive in Boston looks identical to yours, queen did great last year, survived the winter. Now No eggs, No lava, but I do see young bees. Maybe it is the weather, I am giving them some time to see if they correct things themselves.
I opened my hive a few days ago. My bees were on 2 frames on the top box and another 2 frames below it on the bottom box. I took away the top box. Now all 4 frames with bees are in one box, the bottom box. The advantage I have, I watch your videos, learn from it, and have something to compare to. Last year was my first year, just like you. I had a very strong hive. This year, it is very weak hive. Good luck.
She's a green queen, right? So that's 2014 then. This would be her fourth spring/summer season, about the time they slow down or die. :-( If you like what she did for you, then I would suggest another Italian. My husband and I bought and installed 2 nucs into our top bar hives this May that we built. We were told by the apiary that they have Italian queens. The hives are calm and the brood pattern is crazy full. My husband's queen is super golden, while mine is a bit darker, but they are Gorgeous! I don't envy your tough decision, as I know we will have to make some hard ones at some point in our Beek journey. It's amazing how quickly we have become attached to them. Sending love and luck from Syracuse, NY!
I don't have any bee keeping experience other than watching youtube videos, but for what its worth I'd stick with the current queen. She's earned it in my opinion and you do have 2 other hives. Unless of course there could be a disease, otherwise I'd let her continue on. She might just surprise you again.
Give the queen sometime before making any drastic measures. If i were in your shoes i would have taken off the super just like you did, the only difference i wouldn't have given the empty drawn out comb but instead put empty frames on the ends. An empty frame is better than an unoccupied drawn comb when you have an issue with hive strength. Its possible that your bees might have been overwhelmed by the space that they had. Hope to see them bounce back soon. Catching a swarm would be perfect timing right about now.
as you know, there are a number of reasons a hive can be developing slowly. but one limitation is simply the number of nurse bees available to raise new brood. you could add one solid frame of capped brood from one of your other strong hives and quickly boost the nurse bee population. if her production doesn't improve a couple weeks after that, then your best bet is to replace her. myself, i'm always interested in introduced generics crossed with local mating. that way i know i'm starting with some desired characteristics and mixing that with genetics that are hopefully more locally adapted. that of course depends on having enough wild or otherwise locally adapted hives in your area to provide those drones...
To the beginning: please excuse my bad English. There is 4. option: Give her a chance. You can stimulate her by one frame of closed brood. She knows that it's not her brood and she's trying to lay more eggs to save her population (genes). But in my opinion, there will be necessary to replace her soon (this year), because she's old (I think she's 2015). So I vote option No. 3. It's more expensive than No. 1 and No. 2 but you can get a really good queen. No. 1 and No. 2 are same and emergency queens are not so good. OR You can try raise your own new queen or queens (I don't think by self re-queening). It's a little complicated but the best option (and cheaper than No. 3). Good luck and keep it going.
You may want to consider that bees may not easily accept new foreign (not bred within that hive) queens during the summer. Rule of thumb I've read (bear in mind I live in Germany) is they'll only accept foreign queens easily in months with 'r' in it, as those are generally lower on drone population, making it harder for a newly emerged queen to find mating partners. Not sure how this is at your place though. As for the requeening, I'd recommend making sure it is not american foul brood that's killing off your young larvae - some strands actually kill the brood before it gets capped, which makes it a bit dodgy to spot. This would, however, hardly explain the low egg count. I am against having queens (or bees in general) shipped across large distances, so I'd recommend checking what queens you can get in your area and get something reasonably local. Or just let the hive decide and live with whatever that will get you, it's really up to you in the end though. If you want to harvest honey from that hive, you'll probably have to get a new mated queen.
Vino this is something most bee keepers will not tell you specially suppliers. First year queen are ok, its like a virgin learning the ropes. Second year they are life young mama's gogogo. Third year they start to slow down and forth they are falling. I always replace a queen on the third year ,this way its the first year for the new queen.By doing so I always get a booster crop every 2 years with that hive.
Jim could you do both,introduce young brood from the Russian hive/s and secondly buy a mated queen. The reason behind this is if the larvae is young larvae or young eggs they would make a queen just in case the new mated queen was rejected or not mated properly. I know this kinda sounds strange,but both bases would be covered. Another option is to use a 5-6 frame nuc and place a few frames of eggs and larvae into the nuc box and raise a queen in the nuc box while the new mated queen in being introduced. This would force the bees in the nuc box to raise an emergency queen and this way you would have 2 shots at the Italian hive surviving. We've had a bunch of problems with queens over the last year,having to buy new mated queens etc etc. So I think the ideas posted would give you a double shot at success. Let me know what you think please.
My 1st comment is wait until you start seeing signs from the hive itself that she needs replacing. With that being said I will also tell you that this spring I picked up 2 new nucs from my local bee club. Picked up bees in torrential rain and cold. Got back to farm and sat Nucs out at the location they were I picked out for them to live. Had freezing rain last couple days of April, just rotten crumby weather. Three days later I had a day above 50 and moved Nuc frames into my deep boxes. One Nuc was hugging the frames and seemed very small in # of bees. 2ND nuc was busting at the seams, 10 times more bees than other, obviously had just had a incredible hatch. Unfortunately I found 14 emergency and superceedure cells .. Week later most looked like they hatched and were being torn down.. Waited 3 weeks and no queen found and no eggs or larvae. I purchased a Russian queen and put into hive 2 weeks ago and hive is in total harmony with her. I could tell bees were happy to see her when I put the cage between the frames. 2 weeks after putting in I had nearly 3 whole frames of egg/larvae and had to add a deep and medium boxes.. She I kickin' butt totally. So go for it, but only if the Bees give you the right signals.. Good luck!
You can also change the hive position with one of the Russian. The bees that are flying will strengthen the colony. Another method is tot strength a weaker colony in the spring: What you do is the stronger colony, right next to the weaker gets a queen excluders qnd you put the weaker colony on it, both need brood, otherwise the queen will be left alone in the upper box. If there are no drones, it's possible without a newspaper. The weaker colony provides from the warmth of the stronger colony. The bees divide both over the two boxes. They both use the same entrance. After 3 tot 5 weeks the lower strongest colony will be places next to the old place and the weaker colony stays on the place, but without the other colony. The weaker colony gets the super and all the bees that are flying fly into the weaker colony. But there are other problems why it's a weak hive, because of the queen or because it's going in the winter to small. I hope you understand, my English is not that good and I don't know al the beekeeping terms in English. But I wanna help you!
I think I'd just give her a little more time if your weather has been cool. I'd try pouring the feed and pollen patty to her. They may not take it but if they do it could give her a boost. She may need to sense a better inflow of resources. There are other options you didn't mention or consider. 1. Saskatraz queen (lappe's bees in IA has them) 2. Pull her out with a frame of brood and bees and make a nuc add a frame of brood from your russians and give her a chance. 3. Buy a nuc and give them her hive and put her in the nuc and give her a chance with her bees and a frame of brood from the bought Nuc. If she takes off and goes back to work you can always buy or build another hive. You can build an entire hive with advantech for cheap and it lasts. 4. You can make a queenless split from your russians with brood in your Nuc and give the old queen to them in a JZB cage. Add a new queen of choice to her old hive. If she continues to underperform, you can either recombine them with their old hive or buy a new Russian queen and pinch the old rock star. Either way you'll either gain a hive or strengthen your russian donor if/when you recombine them.
I would let it naturally play out, they might make emergency queen cells 2 days after you looked at them and then you could add some brood to boost the life cycle gap they will experience. That way you keep the genetics you desire, re-queening will forever change that, imo that is like starting a new hive from scratch because there is no guarantee the new queen will be a survivor or even a good layer for that matter. Will be interesting to see what you decide.
Personally I would hive them in a double stack nuc "5 over 5", feed them and give them another couple weeks. I would bet that will get them going well. It has work for me many times on weaker hives.
Natural Requeening: If the queen laid any eggs you should be fine to let them sort it out, usually they can make a new queen rather quickly (16 days) and a week or two until she mates with a drone. If she isn't laying much they will probably kill her and raise a new queen. I wouldn't check too often myself if you decide to let them deal with it, maybe every other week or so. And look for queen cells and eggs. (I got very unlucky with my hive, had a virgin queen that wouldn't lay, they killed her and had no eggs to make another queen) You could check for foulbrood you probably don't have it, the rope test is a great way to find out (A toothpick in a capped cell, stir it around and pull it out. If it has a "ropey" texture you're kinda screwed.) I mention foulbrood because of the bad brood patterns. Requeening with Neighbors Brood: This is very close to naturally requeening, I wouldn't do this unless there are no eggs in the failing hive, the only difference is you're adding new genetics and supplying them with eggs. Which my personal opinion is mutt bees are a lot better than pure breeds. Adding a Mated Queen Yourself: Ultimately this is the quickest way to get them back on their feet, and probably the best way to save the hive. The only real cons to this method is the chance they may kill the queen. I would look up some "Queen Introduction Methods" one I have personally had success with: www.glenn-apiaries.com/QnIntroInstr.html I wish you the best of luck with re-queening.
I would use this hive to observe what happens if you just let them be. How do they succeed an old queen? Sure you've read about it, but nothing as good as watching it happen. Seems silly to do so with livestock, but you have two other hives. You're also comparing this hive to two Russian hives. Russian bees peak activity hits REALLY fast, and then drops off much sooner than Italians. Your Italian queen is known to be active later in the year...
Thanks a lot for your update. After seeing this, I won't kill her. Put some old brood from the Russians in her hive to boost the population. Feed them a pollen patty and some sirup. And maybe treat for mites again. Then build a nuc and put in a frame of pollen, a frame of honey and a frame of fresh eggs from your Italians, and fill the nuc to the rim with brushed off Russian bees, leaving it without a queen. Therefore you have two chances to save the genetics of your rockstar: 1) The old queen is boosted by a jumpstart in case it's really the weather. And if not, the old hive will solve the problem on its own terms by keeping or superseding the old queen. 2) The Russians in the new nuc are raising new Italian queens with which you can generate a/multiple hives with the queens showing the best traits. In any case, keeping the diversity prevents you from putting all your eggs into one basket - you don't know how your Russians will fare during the next year. Also, requeening with a newly bought queen is always a lottery in genetics and performance. If you really want to spent a bunch of money on new bees, take a broad shot: Order two packages of bees and a queen from EACH breed you think might be suited for your climate. Then split the two bee packages into multiple nukes and put a queen in each of them, growing them fast into strong hives each. So you can compare the traits and response of each lineage to your local conditions. And given some time, you might create your own mutt breed being perfectly suited to your local climate and therefore outperforming any randomly bought bees.
1. I would move the brood to the center to be warmer. 2. Wait for 2 weeks, if weather is warmer. 3, be prepared to order a queen in 10 days. 4. Buy bees. And merge them. If they are cold and need more workers and nurses.... buy bees. You don't have a big enough apiary to move resources around yet. I would find some Italian bees and add them. It's what I did when my apiary was only 2 hives....
I would put the Queen in a 5 frame nuc with some new comb - honey and a frame of hatching brood from one of your other hives and put it in the original hive position to get all the foragers back to it and move the main hive to a new position and also add a frame of brood and re queen it,that way she may start laying better on the new comb and if she doesn't you have the main hive re queened and production is not los and if she kicks in you have a extra hive.
Italian all the way and don't wait. Get it done for greater good of the colony. They got to get ready for the next winter and the just barley survived the last one.
I have the same problem with a 3 yr old Italian queen. She has stopped laying eggs like a rock star and the colony is on the decline. The number of bees is about triple what you have. today I found a ripe queen cell and I made the executive decision to cull her. We are just starting the main honey flow in the pacific northwest (Black berry) and that hive should have been full of brood. Now I just watch to see if the colony turns around and keep my fingers crossed...
I'd feel better if there were signs like a queen cell and the rest of the hive was on top of things. This behavior isn't like her so I got nervous. I'll give her another couple weeks to see what happens if we get some warm weather. It's been like PNW out here this year!
I really like the idea of variety too, but if Russians are tougher, then logic says they're the safer route to take for now. I think once those hedge trees have a few years to grow and break the wind really well for the bees, then maybe it'd be safer to have Italian hives again. The Italians would be missed though. Also, I think it'd be interesting to see how the Italian workers co-operate with a Russian queen. Carniolans could be interesting to see too.
I would put some a frame from the Russians or let them make one from what's in there sounds like she has some good genic going for wintering. Yes it will be about a month before you get eggs and started back but that's my 2 cents. good luck either way you go.
I would try to let them requeen themselves, with a backup of buying a queen. That way you will keep the geneics of the survivor hive going. 1. Remove the old queen 2. After some days, looks for queen cells 2a If queen cells give the hive a frame of brood from the strongest russian hive to bolster population 2b If no queen cell order new queen, introduce new queen + frame of russian brood asap Probably not the most economical, or fastest, but you are a hobbiest trying to learn :)
i have exactly the same situation. very spotty brood. population not increasing. i added a frame of brood a week. last check ...brood pattern improving. still under observation.
One of my hives is in precisely this situation. This was a feral queen that I got 2 years ago. She was a "rock star", as well. Well, rock stars fade and we've tough decisions to make. I've just popped a frame from another hive w/queen swarm cell in and we'll be good to go shortly. Since this is from a daughter hive, I'm getting survivor traits to replace her without risking the loss of the hive due to end of egg production or laying worker onset. A fair indicator is how the rest of your colony brood production looks. Are they expanding quickly? Then so should she. Weather would not be your determining factor if the other colonies are doing well. If they are slow to start, then I'd wait a bit longer, too. Honestly, though, it hasn't been cool enough to stop laying, recently. I've already gotten 3 splits off my best hive and we've had similar conditions to yours.
This was my concern... She's laid eggs in far worse conditions than this. I'm going to give her two weeks. It's supposed to turn into summer in a couple days. I hope she turns around.
I hope it works out for you but to hedge your bet, I might suggest pulling a mini-split nuc from your best Russian hive. This way, you'll be 2 weeks ahead of the game should you choose to replace her. Free queens are great!
We originally thought she was 2014 because her dot looked green last summer... but after the winter, now her dot looks more blueish. So maybe 2015. The two other queens from the same supplier (picked up the same day) were 2015. (Those are the two that died over winter.) So this is her second or possibly third summer. (I haven't uploaded the video yet, but I did check on her a few days ago and there were new eggs! So the warm weather and feeding must be doing something!)
Gapeys Grub I know a lot of people replace queens often no matter what. My mentor says he has queens that go 5 years. I just really like this hive and know they made it through a harsh winter. I'd love to keep her going long enough to split this hive and try to get the bees to make their own queen to keep these genes going.
Put a bales of straw windblock up around your hives in the shape in a U with the opening away from the windy side of your property! Check for mites, ants and beetles and move them further up from the ground!!
i think the hive is just a touch weak. if the queen is still laying, she may put in some queen cells. if not, a new queen is 25$. i dont think bees will produce a queen cup. i think the cell has to be made first before the queen lays. but i cant be sure on that. it has been said that you are a little more concerned on the breed of bees... really though, it doesnt matter. mix and match if you wish. what i would do personally, wait just a bit for the current brood bunch to hatch. once there are more bees, perhaps things will get kick started.
Personally Id wait. You can mix and match bees, they dont care at all, as long as you either A: give them ample time to adjust to the others smells (I saw someone do this via a few sheets of newspaper) or start from brood, so they hatch into the new hive without the knowledge that the queen did not lay them. If the bees are concerned about her they make supercedure cells like you said, which there is no evidence of.
It will be very difficult to re-queen the hive with another race, I wouldn't recommend it. It is possible with an unmated queen, but after 7-9 days when you kill the queen and take all the queen cells away and wait for minimal 2 hours. If she's mated you need the control every week on superseder cells and take them away until her own bees are born. If you want to re-queen the hive with brood from the Russians, I recommend to kill the Italian queen, and take after 7-9 days all the queen cells away and than put a frame with eggs and open brood in the hive. Than your sure they make queen cells on the eggs and larvae from the russians. It's possible they don't do it if they have there own brood. You can also try to help the colony growing by putting a frame brood, where the bees will be almost born in the hive.
I am just living through you, I do not own a hive, it's a dream right now so take my comments as such. I think it depends on what you want to get out of it. do you want to experiment and see what you can do and for lack of a better term " play around" and "experiment". if so then go with 1 or 2. If you want the "let's get this show on the road and get em working" then go with 3. I would LOVE to see one or two but that's for selfish reasons so I can learn more through your doing it. lol Good luck!
If I had 10 hives, I think I'd be more pumped to experiment. Out of respect for this awesome queen, I feel like I need to do the thing with the highest probability of success. I'm just not certain which option that is exactly.
Vino Farm then I would go with mated Italian re-queening- non professional opinion! You should totally get 10 hives. lol super excited to see how it goes!
If she was that good don't lose her genetics. It does not matter if you add Russian brood I did it with my hives this year. I had almost the same situation with a week hive with a Italian queen and added a frame from my Russians to boost them up. They are doing good now. Russians will work more when it is cooler then the Italians. My thought is give them a frame and see if it helps. If after a few weeks she is still just getting by pull out a frame with eggs and put it in a nuc and shake some bees from your other hives in to it and let them make a queen. That way all your hives will still be working and you can get a new queen with her genetics. At that point if she needs to go it would be easy to just pinch he and add the queen from the nuc.
If you liked the queen before,off with her head .This way you know the winter survival chance are better. Plus i would add 2 to 3 frames of emerging brood in 10 days just to strengthen the hive and help the new queen get the population up faster.These cold nights we been getting don't rely do much to my queens they are going crazy even got a few swarms from splits.
I'm in a similar predicament I'm thinking of taking her out of the hive and putting her into a nuc this way I can keep supplying fresh brood to the hive while they create a queen problem is they haven't made any queen cells or much in the way of drone so I'm reluctant as I thought if the bees wasn't happy they would at least stated too superseded her she was an end off season queen that I managed to grab a queen cell and place in their shes quite skinny weres yours looks like she decently mated so I'm in a pickle a little bit because my other hive is the same
Since you asked......Assuming there's no evidence of varroa or tracheal mites, I'd move her to a Nuc. I'd give her some syrup and a patty and see if her colony takes off. I would probably also give her a frame of brood from the Russian hive. I've read that the Queens best year is her 2nd summer. So don't let that go. My books say the Italians are late to get going in the spring so you cannot compare her activity to the Russians. I know you didn't ask but..... Also I would save those poor arborvitae from deer browsing by placing 3' wooden stakes around your enclosure with burlap stapled to the stakes. That should be enough to keep the deer out of them if the burlap -stake fence is less than 10' from the e-fence. Once the deer find them in a dearth of browse it will be harder to keep out until they look like popsicles with a tuft of leaves only about 6'. You may also have to spray them with rotten egg solution.
Thank you for the advice. We don't have "heavy" deer population here. There are deer, but I can go a whole year without actually seeing one. I see hoof prints in the snow and they nibble my apple trees, but they aren't too bad. Are you suggesting the burlap/stake fence be OUTSIDE the trees? Or surrounding each tree? I put a 3' gap between the electric fence and the circumference of the trees so I can easily move between the trees and fence and keep them pruned. I don't want the trees growing into the fence.
I'd put the stakes with burlap on the outside and let the poor arborvitae be between the e-fence and the burlap. There should not be more than 10' apart or the deer may get in and still be comfortable grazing inside the burlap. If burlap does not stay up in your area with wind and ice etc then I would go to what we are doing --- (which is excessive I agree but we were driven to this after 3 years and many losses ) --- we are using pallets on 2 sides and snow fence on the other two with 2 metal stakes on each diagonal. For now it might seem like you don't have deer but when they have little browse in winter those arborvitae and going to look like a Golden Coral buffet to them.
Do you value the strain? If so let them re-queen. I'd keep the Russians and Italians separate for comparisons on productivity etc. How desperate are you to push on with building hive population? With weather as it is over there do you need a queen quickly before winter hits to build a strong hive? I'd lean towards buying a new Italian queen if time is of the essence. Good luck mate!
I'd add a frame of capped brood from one of the Russian hives and give them a week or two to see if the population boost helps kick the queen into gear. I think she's just limited by the small amount of nurse bees she has right now.
When pollen coming in the hive is spotty or below a certain level, the queen will keep laying, but the workers will eat the eggs, until pollen stores are adequate to feed the growing amount of brood. Your queen may be laying a fine pattern, the hive may have just ran uncomfortably low on pollen for a short spell, and the workers responded by eating the eggs, until they get enough of a pollen stock pile to accommodate the amount of eggs the queen can lay. I'm not saying your queen is still good, I'm just saying it's a common miss conception that is over looked regarding queens, and people will think the queens bad, when in fact she's not. Queens will last between 3 and 5 years depending on how well she was grown and bred. Sure you can order another queen, but if pollen stores pick up; then it appears she starts laying good again, just take 2 frames of brood from your strong hives, and make a nuke split with the new queen. That way your not wasting a perfectly good queen, just because the workers were uncomfortable with the pollen flow.
me mo dint you watch the video there is a full frame of pollen...and Italian honey bees make brood no matter what unless it gets cold...this may be applicable for the Russians cause they make brood according to the supplies available..
Whoa, really? There was a frame packed with pollen. It certainly doesn't look like a shortage of pollen... but maybe there was a dip in availability a couple weeks ago and I didn't notice. I had no idea workers would eat eggs! When I adopted her, her dot looked green (2014) compared to the other two blue (2015) queens I had. But now, her dot appears more blueish. So I'm not exactly certain. She's either 2014 or 2015. She came from the same exact supplier on the same day as my other two hives last year.
Rifin Silva - Of course I watched the video, and he did say there was lots of pollen coming in now, but that doesn't mean there was a week ago. It's not an instant transition sometimes from times of durth, and it may take another week before the workers stop eating eggs. Italian honeybees may make brood no matter what, and as you heard him say there is all stages of brood in the hive. But that doesn't mean when stores run low, they don't limit brood production, as that is what's happening in his hive. Even Italian bees will limit brood production when in a durth and supplies run low, and they will even eat larvae if they have nothing to feed them.
Vino Farm - Yeah they will eat eggs and brood if supplies run low. I recommend source information from national honey show, because they use a lot of career university professors for their ceminars, who have doctorals in entomology, and that specializes in apis malifera. It keeps me up to date with the latest studies and techniques. My suggestion choose the new queen of your choice, and when it finally shows up, evaluate her brood pattern then. With all the pollen coming in now, and if your feeding syrup, you should notice increased laying by the time your new queen shows up, assuming it will take longer then a week. Even if her failer is confirmed and you decide to replace her. If you want some native genetics in your bee yard, put her in a nuke with a 2 brood frame split, and let them superced her. She'll keep poorly laying but the population numbers will remain constant through the transition, and when the new queen comes in to laying, about a month after the process, you'll have another strong hive before winter sets in, plus potentially many other queens if you want to do more 2 frame splits, from frames off your strong hives.
With a new queen the swarm will increase, this queen almost does not do posture, maybe she is already old (with all respect), but maybe if you feed the swarm the queen better in the posture, or else I think an Africanized queen bee would be very Well, here in Brazil there are only Africanized bees and the queens are very good. Good job.
Isn't that the same queen most people said to pinch? Let the hive decide for itself. but if you really want to Re-queen then use Italian. If you let the hive re-queen itself isn't it a good chance the new queen will mate with the Russians?
I would go with option 4. Come on, you just have to preserve her genetics, they are fantastic. I would create a Nuc with some pollen and honey bracketing that frame of brood (the black one), shake some bees off brood frames of your two Russian hives (the workers will return to their respective hives but the Russian nurse bees will remain with any bees that were on the black brood frame when you took the split. They should create supersedure cells from eggs in the black frame thereby preserving her proven Italian genetics. Leave the existing queen with her existing hive (possibly also in a nuc) to (hopefully) recover if she can. Tough decision my friend, I would not want to be in your shoes right now. I am sorry, but that is the best advice I have right now, I hope it has not compounded your decision. You do not have much time to come to a decision, so go and bake some bread and mull it over. ;D
I am partial to Carniolian 's myself. They are a gentle breed, and they are Hygenic, so helps with mite control. I have no experience with Russians, but have been told by a beekeeper that has them that they are hot. Italians are gentle, and are known. I would opt for the Carniolian, just for a variety, and also for the genetics.
I say make a nuc without a queen. Have them re-queen themselves while you give Queen Diva more time. If she does not start back to laying then off with her head!!! If she starts back to laying keep her as the Queen. As for that nuc... Keep it. Steal from it to make all your hives stronger. If need be re-queen the other hives from it. But what do i know this is my first year of beekeeping. edited because of spelling errors and space monkeys
It's more about the timing than the genetics. I placed Hawiian bred italians into a NUC with bees that I shook from frames of mildly africanized "mutts". Just follow the normal procedures - make sure there are no other queens, leave them queenless for 12 to 24 hours. Maybe sprinkle a dash of cinnamon across the frame tops at the beginning of the queenless period. Then introduce the queen as you would with a new package. Leave in cage for 2 or 3 days, or make a "frame cage" so she can wander a little but not be killed. All that being said, I would do option #4 - order a package of Italians, plus 2 additional queens. Split the package into 3 NUCs. Then if this one fails, you can hive combine. If she is fine, then you have 3 more hives!
I would vote for carniolan, gentler genetics, brood up fast, frugal with stores in winter. but do cluster smaller in the winter. just what I have read, no personal experience. I do have a nuc I started with a carniolan this year to see how they do in the summer heat. logical decision is to get mated queen to keep them building instead of waiting for new brood on a gamble the queen will make it back from mating flight.
hey wouldnt any new queens from the italian hive simply mate with drones they are most likely to encounter from the russian hives? they are still the same same species just different lines. that could make strong individual queens plus you know that one italian queen is an over winter survivor and she may likely pass that one in her young.
Okay if you think of buying a new queen... Italian queen:They are super gentle and they make lots of bees throughout the summer...and they make so much honey!but they are not disease resistant like the Russians.. carniolan queen: They are good honey producers and use a low amount of propolis. Carniolans fly in cold weather and are thus considered good bees..they winter excellent..but they tend to swarm a lot! Russian queen: The USDA tested them for mite resistance and found that they were indeep resistant, especially when kept out of the presence of other breeds. Russians are also disease-resistant, which makes them even more sought-after. Russians over winter well, and tend to get along well in colder climates as well as warmer ones.. but,the honey production is fairly low... so as you see each have their own good good deeds as well as drawbacks..it's your option.. My opinion:the Russians, they seems to be sutable for your climate unless you want honey...they do make honey but not as much as the other two.
Thanks, Rifin, I am aware of the pros and cons of the different breeds. I think my question is more about the probability of success of introducing something OTHER than an Italian. These are Italian bees, so do you think a Russian would be a good choice for requeening? Or would that have a great chance of failure?
Vino Farm What I'm thinking is since you have a lot of varroa problem...only the Russians are more resistant to them and they are excellent for surviving long winter..but re queening a Italian hive into a Russian is a real tough job..... I would recommend you to take a look at this website which explains everything..(content.ces.ncsu.edu/comparison-of-russian-and-italian-honey-bees ) but there is 95% chance of Russians to survive the Winter..but it's a risky job you may loose the hive..
Vino Farm Ya,it is possible to re queen but it's a bit risky..but re queening this hive with a Russian works out! next year I'm sure you will see survivers..
You left out the obvious 4th option, Leave the hive alone. When you moved the top box down, you interfered in the heated ceiling of the hive, moved the sugar source farther away. Also, the bees you see today are not the bees of weeks gone by, they are the emerged brood, the old workers from winter are dying a natural death, the hive is younger and was on its way to doubling in size. Stop moving them around. Let them know their space . I agree with Thomas Gordon. If I were you, I'd have 6 deep boxes for the 3 of them and walk away now as they are running out of time, Next year is your break out year. Smiles to you,
Well, I took the top level off and now they are in a single 10-frame medium. We are having a rainy, cool week right now, so if there is a weather issue, this is only going to make things worse. We have had no hot days yet and a lot of rain. Great for fruit trees, bad for bees. When you say "I'd have 6 deep boxes for the 3 of them" do you mean I should have deep boxes on all three hives? I'm confused. These bees came on mediums and they have not ever been strong enough to introduce them to deep boxes. I'm still REDUCING their box space. If they take off, I guess I could make their next level a deep and transition them that way. "and walk away now as they are running out of time" Are you telling me to leave them alone? I've been giving them 2 full weeks between checks!
The bees in the video are the adopted neighbor bees from last fall. He had them in all medium boxes. My mentor keeps in ALL mediums, too. So the bees came in mediums and the emergency pulled frames I received last fall were mediums from my mentor. So I just stuck with mediums. All the woodenware and pilled comb I had were mediums. I'm doing deeps on the two new Russian nucs because the Flow hive is deeps and the Russians came on deeps. I'm going to check out your video links....
I thought they would make queen cells, but they're just working away. I'm just very concerned that she hasn't laid eggs in weeks and her pattern is all over the place... which are classic signs of a failing queen. They should be building like crazy, but the population hasn't changed in over a month.
what are your varroa numbers? Did you squash test for nosema? Did your larva have any color showing EFB? Did you treat the entire yard for all of the above? Stop looking at individual colonies and equal the strength between all the hives in the yard. Always have 20% as nucs to use for requeening failing colonies. Don't ever wait. 12 days is 10% of the honey season. You returned nothing this entire season for all of your labor. when inspecting make nucs and take to the next yard. Bring nucs from the other yard back. This is basic beekeeping for someone with more than a couple of hives.
Sorry, it sounds like you haven't watched many of my videos. I'm not a commercial beekeeper, so honey is not at the top of my list of things to worry about. I'm a beginner and still learning basically everything. This is the very beginning of my second season. What you see in the video is the extent of my bees. This hive is coming out of a harsh winter and only has about 2 frames of bees. Maybe one total frame of brood. I'm hesitant to test for varroa at the moment, because I'd need to use about 20% of the hive to do the test. I can literally see each bee and there is no visible varroa. There are no drone cells or capped drone brood at all for varroa to be hiding in. There are no signs of nosema. The hive seems quite healthy, but the queen had stopped laying eggs. (She has since restarted.) The other two hives in the yard are nucs installed about a week prior.
You give me the reasons your hive might be slow (weather); you tell me that unless you find eggs, you might have to replace her (and then find brood and eggs), and then conclude that your original idea (killing the queen) was a foregone conclusion. And yet the experts who actually know, and would launch the recovery strategy themselves, (the bees) apparently feel there is no problem with the queen that needs solving. I suggest pinching the beekeeper.
Gregory Ircink I've admitted that I jumped the gun on my conclusion and I have decided to give her a couple weeks to let the weather warm up. I didn't DO ANYTHING and stated in the video that I wanted to talk things through in the comments... which is exactly what happened. I'm here to learn. Many people have left helpful comments which I and probably hundreds of other people have learned from. I encourage you to browse the comments here and take note of what helpful comments look like. Have a great day.
I really like your videos and appreciate your taking the time to make them. In retrospect I guess my remark was more snarky than helpful - OK, possibly not helpful at all. Sorry.
No worries. The urge to be snarky is tough to suppress. You should have seen the first draft of my response. Thanks for watching the videos. If you do have something helpful to add, I always encourage it. Hundreds, maybe thousands of new beekeepers read these comments. There's a lot of information here. I really try to keep things positive.
My gut reaction would be to replace with a new Italian Queen, highest chance of survival and quick hive resurgence. But the idea of requeening with a new type of bee sounds like a fun experiment.
You don't have much experience with the Russians yet. I would consider re-queening with the Carniolan or Italian just to hedge your bet. Or let the hive re-queen naturally and start a forth hive with a new queen and new bees. (P.S. I have no beekeeping experience.)
I would go with curtain number 3 and an Italian queen. Try and get one as local as possible so her strain is used to the weather. You have to think life expectancy, cluster that small they are probably just covering die off not building.
sounds like you have a older queen.i kill all my queens every spring as soon as i see drones flying.the old queens seem to swarm every spring and you lose all them bees.i just let them make a queen.i do feed them for a month while they make a new queen.its just my way and may not be right for everybody. let me know if i can help.you can check out my site its- Steves Outdoor World-
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Okie Dokie, folks... It seems the majority opinion is to give this queen some time and wait for warmer weather. I must say that I like that option. I don't WANT to kill this queen if it's not necessary and I hope it didn't come across that way in the video. I want the hive to SURVIVE. I know that re-queening is part of beekeeping: whether the bees do it themselves, or if a beekeeper does it for them. I'd love to let nature take its course and let the bees do it themselves. I was just concerned that they hadn't acted and if this queen truly was failing, they would not have suitable eggs left to do anything with.
I do hope I'm wrong and this queen is just taking a break. And I hope we get some warm weather very, very soon.
As always, I appreciate your comments, thoughts, suggestions, links and information.
Vino Farm if you do decided to replace the queen do not just smush her. Dispatch her with soapy water (instant death) take her out and put her in a vial with some alcohol. Then you can continue to use her pheromones as a swarm attractant.
Keep an eye on her. I hope she comes back strong like last year. Also, a while back I saw a video where the keeper was trying to get a hive to chill out and quit being aggressive, he squashed the queen then moved a queened hive on top of it separated by some news paper (it would take time for the bees to chew through, so they would acclimate to the pheromones). Could try that process with a new bee box to save the hive if the queen is failing.
This is some really weird technique, quite interesting tho.
You need to realize there is more then just one major problem with your idea of waiting . She is 3 years old possibly 4 so she is a failing queen and the longer you wait the more shes going to fail so less eggs. This increases the chance of not having a queen cell if it happens over time plus it will take even more time to bring back up the population . So there for less reserves for the winter diminishing the chance of the hive to over winter.
danameable Yes, I know this. That was the point of the video. I feel I've already been waiting a month and we're at the same place. No expansion. I'm going to wait just out of curiosity, but also because RUclips overwhelmingly told me to. We shall see what happens.
I would vote for letting them raise their own queen. She's treated you so well in the past, and was the lone survivor, so I would want to preserve her genetics.
Ok here is my 2 cents. I think you are hung up on the breeds. Queens always mate with random drones. She has other strains in her no matter what. We don't live in Italy and we don't live in Russia. I know breeders say the bees are a certain genetic, but once they mate, they take on the other genetics from the different drones. You should be more focused on what queen survives and how they perform regardless of the type. You said this queen is a "ROCK STAR". Ok that said, I don't think she is failing. She is only laying what her hive can support. I am in the Northeast as well and man this Spring Really sucks for bees. My two colonies are struggling and staying small. They can't keep the brood warm so the queen is not laying that much. Next weekend we get much warmer weather and I hope it lasts. I would wait and see. There are no Supersedure cells, that should be your indicator that she is still a good queen. She is only 2 years old! Some queens go 5 - 7 years! The colony doesnt feel they need to replace her. I don't think you need to either. The bees are reflecting the weather. I would give her time. If your other hives are blowing up, then add a frame of capped brood to this hive to boost population and maybe she will start filling up the frames. And that's my 2 cents.
Thanks for the support!
Thomas Gordon Hi Thomas Gordon, your comments make the most sense to me. The weather plays a massive role in bee behavior, queens included. I am in eastern France in the prealps and my black bees have been very gentle in the past but today they were nasty, defensive and probably feeling cold too and i noticed my queen has dropped her egg laying off too and she is brand new this year. Again, no signs from the workers that anything is wrong , just managing with what they can right now.
I agree with giving her more time. I think it is easy to get ahead of ourselves with the thought of "what if". I am in Colorado and we are now starting to consistently get warm, sunny weather. A hive I collected from a swarm took about a month to start laying. It could have been related to lack of pollen and resources, the queen getting mated, or just me messing with feral bees. I would have thought there was no queen if I wouldn't have seen her upon inspection. I decided to wait and let them do what they know. Now, almost a month after hiving them, the frames are covered with brood.
Also, you may be comparing them to your nucs which have a bit of a start with the number of bees and resources. In the end, though, it all depends on your gut. You do a great job and it's what works for you. Personally, I have one Italian hive which is my nice hive, and two hives from swarms that could very well be Russian (they are super protective, dark bees and love to buzz my face, lol). I like having the diversity, so I suggest you keep it that way whatever you choose to do. I started my beekeeping last spring like you. I absolutely LOVE your videos and so do my boys. I can't wait to see what you decide.
Thomas Gordon I believe you are right on all points. why are you so anxious to replace her. The hive knows best. If they are not wanting to get rid of her then just leave her bee. I would just be thankful they are not Actualized!!!
Common sense at it's best. It make's perfect sense! Just gotta sit back and feel the vibbbzzzzzzzz! lol
When looking at the hive and the amount of brood, the amount of bees should be taken into account. There isn't a large population in the hive, so they can't yet explode because they can't feed and keep warm that much brood. They won't lay more brood than they can keep warm, and looking at the cluster, it looks like the brood ball is pretty much the size of the cluster.
I don't think you should pinch her quite yet. What I'd do if you have the resources in another hive, is find a frame of brood that is just starting to hatch, brush all the bees off, and give the frame to this colony. That way they get a big population boost within a couple days, they don't have a bunch of brood to take care of because they are shortly going to hatch, and you don't have any bee acceptance problems. Then see if she starts laying more.
My only other two hives are Russians. I'd do this in a second if I had an extra Italian hive.
My gut tells me that it wouldn't be a problem with unhatched worker brood, but I do not have direct experience with that specific situation. I would think that the only problem would be trying to introduce an already mated Russian queen.
In addition, I would not let them raise a new queen. They just don't have the population to raise a good strong one.
Vino Farm you can put the russian brood in the Italian hive. it doesnt matter
Your suggestion makes sense and I would likely do the same except for one little issue. His Russian hives are in deep boxes and the Italians that he inherited from his neighbor are in a medium. the frames would swap from medium to deep but deep won't fit in medium
Why not try a hybrid solution? While you monitor the current queen over the next several weeks, you may consider getting a new queen, either Russian or Italian, and set up another brood-box using the other brood-frames. If the original queen does in fact fail, you would not have wasted the peak season. Best case scenario is you would now have 4 functioning hives.
I have no bees and no plans on getting any ever. I also don't own a farm, garden, or bakery. However, I love ur channel. Great camera work and very interesting. Thanks man
Hey neighbor! Ashburnham here again. You are a life saver!!! (Providing all of the comments from very knowledgeable people.) Inspected our hives this past weekend, found the same situation with one of our new nuc queens. Maybe 10-20 eggs. Very spotty brood pattern. Lots of pollen, a little bit of capped honey. The girls were irritable. On one of the cooler (40s) mornings, I noted workers pulling out brood from the hive. Not a lot, only two, but enough to cause an alarm. We've seen queen cups during each inspection, but by the next week, they had always been torn down, with new ones on different frames.
Our other queen is a rockstar. There's 8 new frames of comb. The brood pattern is a work of art. Thousands of eggs. Larvae at various stages. Capped honey. Tons of pollen. Foraging levels have been similar between hives, but there is an extreme difference during orientation dances.
I have spent every free minute since Saturday trying to rule out what's causing the spotty pattern. EFB. AFB. Diploid layer. Laying worker. Mites. Showed our video to 2 beeks. One said, "She's no good. Replace her." Other said, "It's been too cold. Give her time."
It's June 6th. It looks like winter may be ending tomorrow. We're going to give her 2 weeks.
I wish I had seen this video a couple of days ago, but I'll be able to sleep better tonight. So, thank you!
--->>> One said, "She's no good. Replace her." Other said, "It's been too cold. Give her time."
I love your videos! Thank you so much for making them, being honest about your experience, asking for advice but also talking with the "pros" and doing research. I have really enjoyed this journey with you, and have watched since last year.
I have two new hives at my farm (so exciting!) split from my mentors hives, with a new queen added. So my advice is based on less experience than you have, and should obviously be taken with a grain of salt. I'm in southern Ontario Canada, so our weather is similar to what you've had.
This week, one of our hives, only two months in, decided to swarm. My husband found the swarm, so my mentor and I went to check it out. We weren't sure if it was one of our hives that swarmed, or a wild swarm.
It was one of ours.
As we checked the boxes, we found two queen cells just about ready to go in one hive.
The hive had enough space, food, good brood... So why did they make a couple new queens?
The swarm that left with the old queen was really small, so my mentor put it in a nuc, and it's now between the two other hives, and we'll see if they make it.
The point of all this, is that my opinion is if your hive isn't making a new queen, trust them.
We had a split hive and a new queen, and in a very short time, she took off and left a couple new queen cells to race for the throne, and left us stumped as to why.
Trust your hive to know what to do, they've made it this far.
If they do make a queen cell, and you worry about timing, maybe purchase a new queen then, but if they aren't making a queen, i would like to think it's because the hive doesn't feel they need to.
Keep up the amazing videos!
Depends on what you're trying to achieve; a crop of honey or just to get them through next winter? The latter? - then why would a month now matter? Option 4: make up a nuc with Italian eggs, but Russian bees. They raise your very own Italian queen, whilst your original muddles along until she's replaced by your home grown Italian in due course. Genetically it's all going to be mixed up anyways, whether you buy in or DIY.
I've recent watched all of your videos on beekeeping. You sir have inspired me a great deal. I just want you to know that you have the best video series on beekeeping in all of RUclips. I really hope the videos keep coming. Thank you for your time and effort. Keep it up man.
Vino Farm, When I installed my first swarm I lost the queen somewhere between the mother hive and my hive. Because of this the nuc was installed without a queen and with only a few frames of eggs and brood left. I eventually decided that I would just wait it out, although it was a gamble. Eventually the nuc was able to produce a queen and get her laying, although it did take a few weeks and my fingernails took a beating. I would say that it is definitely worth the risk if it pays off as you keep the survivor genetics of the prior queen. I have Italians myself so would say that if you were going to just re-queen to get another Italian, but if possible leave them to do what they can naturally?
All the best, Ed.
Wow, Last time I commented you were only at like 2-4k, You're steadily growing, Just like the many bee hive's to come :) It's crazy how much one can learn about something. It almost brings into the same philosophy of horticulture, It's sweet ;) to see your work as you go and how you tackle the problems, And learn from them by keeping it simple.
Is "do nothing" an option? I'd wait a little longer.
Ha ha! How long to do nothing? I can wait a bit... but something doesn't feel normal here.
Vino Farm I honestly don't know. Couple of weeks maybe? She's not a completely lost cause as there were some eggs. Maybe I'm just being sentimental instead of rational and want to see her make a comeback again. You've got a tough call to make, good luck!
The other variable to consider is that you've introduced the black plastic frame. Maybe you should put a pulled comb frame next to the cluster and see if she moves onto that frame as the weather warms up. If she doesn't start laying there, then you know she's done.
I'm in Michigan, same situation. I did what you're instinct was to put them into a nuc with pollen Patty and sugar/honey bee healthy/water. I put a frame of capped Russian hybrids in...they are really doing well! I suspect they can keep brood warm better, they don't have to spread out to patrol for beetles and moths and the boost of new workers...my queen filled the frame with eggs. She's back! Now I will make queen daughters from her.
Uuuhh, I had this delema not to long ago except I had an unmarked queen and couldn't find her or any worker cells. I ended up re-queening with a VSH queen. It will be time to check on her soon to see how she is getting on. I'm sentimental, but I would want to try and keep the rock star queen around a little longer to see if it's just the weather. Really hope things work out for you! I really enjoy your channel!
Also, if you do plan to requeen, I think you should stay with an Italian Queen. I think it would be interesting to have a little bit of variety to be able to see the differences side-by-side between an Italian hive and are Russian hive.
I agree with keeping her genetics going. Rockstar queen. I like it.
I can only offer African queens, that is all that I have where I live. :D
This is the first Spring coming out of Winter with bees for you. I vote for leaving them alone until it is steadily warmer. Use this as a learning tool for your area and climate. That way she gets a chance to be the rock star again and you will have a better understanding of how bees react after next Winter. Just keep the box small and let them fill it up before adding on again.
Something you could try, if you have the equipment and your mentor is willing to help. Take one of the frames and grab some eggs and put them in some Queen cups and just watch what happens. If it works you will have the same genetics from the Queen you now have. Mainly for your own experience and you like experimenting. It will also still allow for the need to order a Queen as well.
From a person who just watches your vids and knows nothing about bees beyond that I figure option 3 sounds like the best way to go. The sentimental part me kinda just thinks that hive should be left to its own devices and see if it bounces back or if you ever get queen cups on their own. Let them forge their own fate one way or the other! :) Good luck with what ever you do and keep up the great work.
I think you should feed pollen patties... it's there source of protein & if the eggs are being eaten because of lack of stores then this would solve that. I think for your 'rock star' queen & her hive are being frugal about the overall hive mgmt.
I would put them into a nuc, as they tend to build up alot faster. They have alot of room to police and keep the temperature stable for so few bees. I would also test for varroa and treat if necessary. If the nectar flow hasn't started you could try feeding 1:1 syrup to stimulate brood rearing. The queen will lay more if there is nectar or the equivalent coming in. She won't lay so much if she is being fed honey that is stored. You could wait a couple of weeks to see if this kicks her into gear. If not request with a mated Italian. That would be my plan. 😁
I would give her 2 weeks of warm weather above 60 degrees see if she starts laying, if not then she is probably done, I think you want to watch and see if any drones come out I would think if you see drones then something is going to happen
We haven't had two weeks above 60F. Maybe I'm jumping the gun. I can have patience, but something seems off. She was laying back in April when nights were still below freezing.
well give her a week of warm weather then if she don't ramp up then jar her you might put your own queen cup in there
I would wait another two weeks as well. The queen is probably fine, it's just that the support staff number are small in number due to having a tough winter.
I'd either pinch a brood frame from one of the other hives. Or just shake a whole heaps of bees from another hive into that hive.
60f is still pretty chilly. That's an average winter max temp where I am in Melbourne, Australia right now and there isn't a lot of activity.
If you do decide to re-queen a mated queen, I'd go an Italian. They produce well here and as you say gives you genetic variety.
What I would do is that I would keep it Italian and it would be a learning experience for you and others to see the differences between the two types of bees concerning activity,laying,behavior,and honey production
Good Luck Vinoooo
hello! I would highly recommend using existing eggs and brood to make a split of your current hive with one frame of open brood, frame of honey and shake bees on them to tend to the brood and create an emergency queen.. you can do this and requeen the hive with italian queen. I'm not sure how many hives you want, but that would give you 2 Russian and 2 Italian, with the genetics of the Italian that you describe as a Rockstar!
There were only about 15-20 eggs in the whole hive! I would consider doing that kind of split, but there aren't hardly any eggs. I'm going to let the weather warm up and see if she can squeeze out some more.
Vino Farm They only need a few. 😊. I bought my first package of bees this year, installed them Mar 27. Since then, by following the fat bee man's RUclips channel and instructions, I've grown the 1 package to 2 ten frame hives and 5 nucs that will be transferred to 8 or 10 frame Langstroth hives in the next 2 weeks. I'm trying to increase my hive count anticipating winter losses. Wishing you the best!
stonerman2k which of his instruction videos are you referring to? I would like to watch that one myself to grow my bees that much... But there are way too many for me to find.... unless u r just saying you watch his channel in general. But a package of bees growing to 2 hives and 5 nukes!?... that's amazing!
His channel in general, but specifically any/all that discuss splitting.
I'd put in a new Italian Queen so you have some variety. You might also see if Varroa is back, you might be losing bees as fast as she can make them. I believe that Sick workers bees always die out away from hive. A month or so back on youtube there was a great video on a bacteria that Varroa injects into bees causing them to be week even after the mites are treated for. If I find that video again I'll link it. I think this might be what did in your other two hives over winter.
personally, I would try to keep the genetics of the current queen going. Even when failing she managed to outlive two other hives. Given that u already have two new hives, I would think that it would be worth the risk to give it a go
You know I've been through this series multiple times but every time I feel like its the first time. That is either a compliment to your video/editing or a statement on a failing memory (mine). Either way I don't think I have ever reminded you that the Italians had (my guess) around one pound of bees - maybe much less - when they emerged from the winter. The Russians had three pounds when they started. Just reminding everyone.
P. S.
It may be the same number of bees, but she had to replace all the winter bees with new spring bees. I would take note of how many of the bees are there now are nurse bees. oh, duh. how would you know - all the old bees would be out foraging and bringing in pollen and nectar, so only the nurse bees would be there anyway. never mind. but that would mean she had produced all those this spring as the winter bees would by now be dead or foraging.
My flow hive in Boston looks identical to yours, queen did great last year, survived the winter. Now No eggs, No lava, but I do see young bees. Maybe it is the weather, I am giving them some time to see if they correct things themselves.
Interesting to hear you're in the same situation. I guess we need some actual heat to see if things change. Thanks.
I opened my hive a few days ago. My bees were on 2 frames on the top box and another 2 frames below it on the bottom box. I took away the top box. Now all 4 frames with bees are in one box, the bottom box. The advantage I have, I watch your videos, learn from it, and have something to compare to. Last year was my first year, just like you. I had a very strong hive. This year, it is very weak hive. Good luck.
She's a green queen, right? So that's 2014 then. This would be her fourth spring/summer season, about the time they slow down or die. :-(
If you like what she did for you, then I would suggest another Italian. My husband and I bought and installed 2 nucs into our top bar hives this May that we built. We were told by the apiary that they have Italian queens. The hives are calm and the brood pattern is crazy full. My husband's queen is super golden, while mine is a bit darker, but they are Gorgeous! I don't envy your tough decision, as I know we will have to make some hard ones at some point in our Beek journey. It's amazing how quickly we have become attached to them. Sending love and luck from Syracuse, NY!
I don't have any bee keeping experience other than watching youtube videos, but for what its worth I'd stick with the current queen. She's earned it in my opinion and you do have 2 other hives. Unless of course there could be a disease, otherwise I'd let her continue on. She might just surprise you again.
Hoping for a surprise!!!
Good luck. I am really looking forward to the 1st harvest!
Give the queen sometime before making any drastic measures. If i were in your shoes i would have taken off the super just like you did, the only difference i wouldn't have given the empty drawn out comb but instead put empty frames on the ends. An empty frame is better than an unoccupied drawn comb when you have an issue with hive strength. Its possible that your bees might have been overwhelmed by the space that they had. Hope to see them bounce back soon. Catching a swarm would be perfect timing right about now.
Thanks! Sounds like my instincts were OK this time. I will let the weather warm up before making any decisions.
as you know, there are a number of reasons a hive can be developing slowly. but one limitation is simply the number of nurse bees available to raise new brood. you could add one solid frame of capped brood from one of your other strong hives and quickly boost the nurse bee population. if her production doesn't improve a couple weeks after that, then your best bet is to replace her. myself, i'm always interested in introduced generics crossed with local mating. that way i know i'm starting with some desired characteristics and mixing that with genetics that are hopefully more locally adapted. that of course depends on having enough wild or otherwise locally adapted hives in your area to provide those drones...
To the beginning: please excuse my bad English.
There is 4. option: Give her a chance. You can stimulate her by one frame of closed brood. She knows that it's not her brood and she's trying to lay more eggs to save her population (genes).
But in my opinion, there will be necessary to replace her soon (this year), because she's old (I think she's 2015). So I vote option No. 3. It's more expensive than No. 1 and No. 2 but you can get a really good queen.
No. 1 and No. 2 are same and emergency queens are not so good.
OR You can try raise your own new queen or queens (I don't think by self re-queening). It's a little complicated but the best option (and cheaper than No. 3).
Good luck and keep it going.
You may want to consider that bees may not easily accept new foreign (not bred within that hive) queens during the summer. Rule of thumb I've read (bear in mind I live in Germany) is they'll only accept foreign queens easily in months with 'r' in it, as those are generally lower on drone population, making it harder for a newly emerged queen to find mating partners. Not sure how this is at your place though.
As for the requeening, I'd recommend making sure it is not american foul brood that's killing off your young larvae - some strands actually kill the brood before it gets capped, which makes it a bit dodgy to spot. This would, however, hardly explain the low egg count. I am against having queens (or bees in general) shipped across large distances, so I'd recommend checking what queens you can get in your area and get something reasonably local. Or just let the hive decide and live with whatever that will get you, it's really up to you in the end though. If you want to harvest honey from that hive, you'll probably have to get a new mated queen.
Vino this is something most bee keepers will not tell you specially suppliers. First year queen are ok, its like a virgin learning the ropes. Second year they are life young mama's gogogo. Third year they start to slow down and forth they are falling. I always replace a queen on the third year ,this way its the first year for the new queen.By doing so I always get a booster crop every 2 years with that hive.
Jim could you do both,introduce young brood from the Russian hive/s and secondly buy a mated queen.
The reason behind this is if the larvae is young larvae or young eggs they would make a queen just in case the new mated queen was rejected or not mated properly.
I know this kinda sounds strange,but both bases would be covered.
Another option is to use a 5-6 frame nuc and place a few frames of eggs and larvae into the nuc box and raise a queen in the nuc box while the new mated queen in being introduced.
This would force the bees in the nuc box to raise an emergency queen and this way you would have 2 shots at the Italian hive surviving.
We've had a bunch of problems with queens over the last year,having to buy new mated queens etc etc.
So I think the ideas posted would give you a double shot at success.
Let me know what you think please.
My 1st comment is wait until you start seeing signs from the hive itself that she needs replacing. With that being said I will also tell you that this spring I picked up 2 new nucs from my local bee club. Picked up bees in torrential rain and cold. Got back to farm and sat Nucs out at the location they were I picked out for them to live. Had freezing rain last couple days of April, just rotten crumby weather. Three days later I had a day above 50 and moved Nuc frames into my deep boxes. One Nuc was hugging the frames and seemed very small in # of bees. 2ND nuc was busting at the seams, 10 times more bees than other, obviously had just had a incredible hatch. Unfortunately I found 14 emergency and superceedure cells .. Week later most looked like they hatched and were being torn down.. Waited 3 weeks and no queen found and no eggs or larvae. I purchased a Russian queen and put into hive 2 weeks ago and hive is in total harmony with her. I could tell bees were happy to see her when I put the cage between the frames. 2 weeks after putting in I had nearly 3 whole frames of egg/larvae and had to add a deep and medium boxes.. She I kickin' butt totally. So go for it, but only if the Bees give you the right signals.. Good luck!
My 6 yo shouted "buy American!" MAYBE not helpful to you, but I thought everyone would enjoy the humor. Long live the Queen! ;)
Ha ha. Tell your six year old that the genetics might be Italian or Russian, but the bees all came from the USA. Thanks for watching.
You can also change the hive position with one of the Russian. The bees that are flying will strengthen the colony.
Another method is tot strength a weaker colony in the spring:
What you do is the stronger colony, right next to the weaker gets a queen excluders qnd you put the weaker colony on it, both need brood, otherwise the queen will be left alone in the upper box. If there are no drones, it's possible without a newspaper. The weaker colony provides from the warmth of the stronger colony. The bees divide both over the two boxes. They both use the same entrance. After 3 tot 5 weeks the lower strongest colony will be places next to the old place and the weaker colony stays on the place, but without the other colony. The weaker colony gets the super and all the bees that are flying fly into the weaker colony.
But there are other problems why it's a weak hive, because of the queen or because it's going in the winter to small.
I hope you understand, my English is not that good and I don't know al the beekeeping terms in English. But I wanna help you!
I think I'd just give her a little more time if your weather has been cool. I'd try pouring the feed and pollen patty to her. They may not take it but if they do it could give her a boost. She may need to sense a better inflow of resources.
There are other options you didn't mention or consider.
1. Saskatraz queen (lappe's bees in IA has them)
2. Pull her out with a frame of brood and bees and make a nuc add a frame of brood from your russians and give her a chance.
3. Buy a nuc and give them her hive and put her in the nuc and give her a chance with her bees and a frame of brood from the bought Nuc. If she takes off and goes back to work you can always buy or build another hive. You can build an entire hive with advantech for cheap and it lasts.
4. You can make a queenless split from your russians with brood in your Nuc and give the old queen to them in a JZB cage. Add a new queen of choice to her old hive. If she continues to underperform, you can either recombine them with their old hive or buy a new Russian queen and pinch the old rock star. Either way you'll either gain a hive or strengthen your russian donor if/when you recombine them.
I think you should do option 3 a with a MN higenic bee queen. I have a MN higenic queen, and she is amazing!!!!!!! plz think about it.
Awesome, I guess that's option 3d!
I would let it naturally play out, they might make emergency queen cells 2 days after you looked at them and then you could add some brood to boost the life cycle gap they will experience. That way you keep the genetics you desire, re-queening will forever change that, imo that is like starting a new hive from scratch because there is no guarantee the new queen will be a survivor or even a good layer for that matter. Will be interesting to see what you decide.
Personally I would hive them in a double stack nuc "5 over 5", feed them and give them another couple weeks. I would bet that will get them going well. It has work for me many times on weaker hives.
Natural Requeening:
If the queen laid any eggs you should be fine to let them sort it out, usually they can make a new queen rather quickly (16 days) and a week or two until she mates with a drone.
If she isn't laying much they will probably kill her and raise a new queen. I wouldn't check too often myself if you decide to let them deal with it, maybe every other week or so. And look for queen cells and eggs. (I got very unlucky with my hive, had a virgin queen that wouldn't lay, they killed her and had no eggs to make another queen) You could check for foulbrood you probably don't have it, the rope test is a great way to find out (A toothpick in a capped cell, stir it around and pull it out. If it has a "ropey" texture you're kinda screwed.) I mention foulbrood because of the bad brood patterns.
Requeening with Neighbors Brood:
This is very close to naturally requeening, I wouldn't do this unless there are no eggs in the failing hive, the only difference is you're adding new genetics and supplying them with eggs. Which my personal opinion is mutt bees are a lot better than pure breeds.
Adding a Mated Queen Yourself:
Ultimately this is the quickest way to get them back on their feet, and probably the best way to save the hive. The only real cons to this method is the chance they may kill the queen. I would look up some "Queen Introduction Methods" one I have personally had success with: www.glenn-apiaries.com/QnIntroInstr.html
I wish you the best of luck with re-queening.
I would use this hive to observe what happens if you just let them be. How do they succeed an old queen? Sure you've read about it, but nothing as good as watching it happen. Seems silly to do so with livestock, but you have two other hives.
You're also comparing this hive to two Russian hives. Russian bees peak activity hits REALLY fast, and then drops off much sooner than Italians. Your Italian queen is known to be active later in the year...
Thanks a lot for your update. After seeing this, I won't kill her. Put some old brood from the Russians in her hive to boost the population. Feed them a pollen patty and some sirup. And maybe treat for mites again. Then build a nuc and put in a frame of pollen, a frame of honey and a frame of fresh eggs from your Italians, and fill the nuc to the rim with brushed off Russian bees, leaving it without a queen. Therefore you have two chances to save the genetics of your rockstar: 1) The old queen is boosted by a jumpstart in case it's really the weather. And if not, the old hive will solve the problem on its own terms by keeping or superseding the old queen. 2) The Russians in the new nuc are raising new Italian queens with which you can generate a/multiple hives with the queens showing the best traits.
In any case, keeping the diversity prevents you from putting all your eggs into one basket - you don't know how your Russians will fare during the next year.
Also, requeening with a newly bought queen is always a lottery in genetics and performance. If you really want to spent a bunch of money on new bees, take a broad shot: Order two packages of bees and a queen from EACH breed you think might be suited for your climate. Then split the two bee packages into multiple nukes and put a queen in each of them, growing them fast into strong hives each. So you can compare the traits and response of each lineage to your local conditions. And given some time, you might create your own mutt breed being perfectly suited to your local climate and therefore outperforming any randomly bought bees.
1. I would move the brood to the center to be warmer.
2. Wait for 2 weeks, if weather is warmer.
3, be prepared to order a queen in 10 days.
4. Buy bees. And merge them. If they are cold and need more workers and nurses.... buy bees.
You don't have a big enough apiary to move resources around yet.
I would find some Italian bees and add them.
It's what I did when my apiary was only 2 hives....
I would put the Queen in a 5 frame nuc with some new comb - honey and a frame of hatching brood from one of your other hives and put it in the original hive position to get all the foragers back to it and move the main hive to a new position and also add a frame of brood and re queen it,that way she may start laying better on the new comb and if she doesn't you have the main hive re queened and production is not los and if she kicks in you have a extra hive.
Italian all the way and don't wait. Get it done for greater good of the colony. They got to get ready for the next winter and the just barley survived the last one.
I have the same problem with a 3 yr old Italian queen. She has stopped laying eggs like a rock star and the colony is on the decline. The number of bees is about triple what you have. today I found a ripe queen cell and I made the executive decision to cull her. We are just starting the main honey flow in the pacific northwest (Black berry) and that hive should have been full of brood. Now I just watch to see if the colony turns around and keep my fingers crossed...
I'd feel better if there were signs like a queen cell and the rest of the hive was on top of things. This behavior isn't like her so I got nervous. I'll give her another couple weeks to see what happens if we get some warm weather. It's been like PNW out here this year!
I think you already know what you have to do. God speed and good luck.
I really like the idea of variety too, but if Russians are tougher, then logic says they're the safer route to take for now. I think once those hedge trees have a few years to grow and break the wind really well for the bees, then maybe it'd be safer to have Italian hives again. The Italians would be missed though. Also, I think it'd be interesting to see how the Italian workers co-operate with a Russian queen. Carniolans could be interesting to see too.
I think you should leave her be and feed sugar water. What would really give them a boost is combining them with a NUC.
I would put some a frame from the Russians or let them make one from what's in there sounds like she has some good genic going for wintering. Yes it will be about a month before you get eggs and started back but that's my 2 cents. good luck either way you go.
I would try to let them requeen themselves, with a backup of buying a queen. That way you will keep the geneics of the survivor hive going.
1. Remove the old queen
2. After some days, looks for queen cells
2a If queen cells give the hive a frame of brood from the strongest russian hive to bolster population
2b If no queen cell order new queen, introduce new queen + frame of russian brood asap
Probably not the most economical, or fastest, but you are a hobbiest trying to learn :)
i have exactly the same situation. very spotty brood. population not increasing. i added a frame of brood a week. last check ...brood pattern improving. still under observation.
no supersedure cell was observe during the time..
One of my hives is in precisely this situation. This was a feral queen that I got 2 years ago. She was a "rock star", as well. Well, rock stars fade and we've tough decisions to make. I've just popped a frame from another hive w/queen swarm cell in and we'll be good to go shortly. Since this is from a daughter hive, I'm getting survivor traits to replace her without risking the loss of the hive due to end of egg production or laying worker onset. A fair indicator is how the rest of your colony brood production looks. Are they expanding quickly? Then so should she. Weather would not be your determining factor if the other colonies are doing well. If they are slow to start, then I'd wait a bit longer, too. Honestly, though, it hasn't been cool enough to stop laying, recently. I've already gotten 3 splits off my best hive and we've had similar conditions to yours.
This was my concern... She's laid eggs in far worse conditions than this. I'm going to give her two weeks. It's supposed to turn into summer in a couple days. I hope she turns around.
I hope it works out for you but to hedge your bet, I might suggest pulling a mini-split nuc from your best Russian hive. This way, you'll be 2 weeks ahead of the game should you choose to replace her.
Free queens are great!
Do you know how old the queen is? Was last year her first year?
We originally thought she was 2014 because her dot looked green last summer... but after the winter, now her dot looks more blueish. So maybe 2015. The two other queens from the same supplier (picked up the same day) were 2015. (Those are the two that died over winter.) So this is her second or possibly third summer.
(I haven't uploaded the video yet, but I did check on her a few days ago and there were new eggs! So the warm weather and feeding must be doing something!)
I think a lot of people get a new queen after 2-3 years if they live that long.
Gapeys Grub I know a lot of people replace queens often no matter what. My mentor says he has queens that go 5 years. I just really like this hive and know they made it through a harsh winter. I'd love to keep her going long enough to split this hive and try to get the bees to make their own queen to keep these genes going.
Put a bales of straw windblock up around your hives in the shape in a U with the opening away from the windy side of your property!
Check for mites, ants and beetles and move them further up from the ground!!
i think the hive is just a touch weak. if the queen is still laying, she may put in some queen cells. if not, a new queen is 25$. i dont think bees will produce a queen cup. i think the cell has to be made first before the queen lays. but i cant be sure on that.
it has been said that you are a little more concerned on the breed of bees... really though, it doesnt matter. mix and match if you wish.
what i would do personally, wait just a bit for the current brood bunch to hatch. once there are more bees, perhaps things will get kick started.
Personally Id wait. You can mix and match bees, they dont care at all, as long as you either A: give them ample time to adjust to the others smells (I saw someone do this via a few sheets of newspaper) or start from brood, so they hatch into the new hive without the knowledge that the queen did not lay them. If the bees are concerned about her they make supercedure cells like you said, which there is no evidence of.
It will be very difficult to re-queen the hive with another race, I wouldn't recommend it. It is possible with an unmated queen, but after 7-9 days when you kill the queen and take all the queen cells away and wait for minimal 2 hours. If she's mated you need the control every week on superseder cells and take them away until her own bees are born.
If you want to re-queen the hive with brood from the Russians, I recommend to kill the Italian queen, and take after 7-9 days all the queen cells away and than put a frame with eggs and open brood in the hive. Than your sure they make queen cells on the eggs and larvae from the russians. It's possible they don't do it if they have there own brood.
You can also try to help the colony growing by putting a frame brood, where the bees will be almost born in the hive.
it's a small cluster, give them caped brood from the Russian hives thats gonna be a good boost
I am just living through you, I do not own a hive, it's a dream right now so take my comments as such. I think it depends on what you want to get out of it. do you want to experiment and see what you can do and for lack of a better term " play around" and "experiment". if so then go with 1 or 2. If you want the "let's get this show on the road and get em working" then go with 3. I would LOVE to see one or two but that's for selfish reasons so I can learn more through your doing it. lol Good luck!
If I had 10 hives, I think I'd be more pumped to experiment. Out of respect for this awesome queen, I feel like I need to do the thing with the highest probability of success. I'm just not certain which option that is exactly.
Vino Farm then I would go with mated Italian re-queening- non professional opinion! You should totally get 10 hives. lol super excited to see how it goes!
If she was that good don't lose her genetics. It does not matter if you add Russian brood I did it with my hives this year. I had almost the same situation with a week hive with a Italian queen and added a frame from my Russians to boost them up. They are doing good now. Russians will work more when it is cooler then the Italians. My thought is give them a frame and see if it helps. If after a few weeks she is still just getting by pull out a frame with eggs and put it in a nuc and shake some bees from your other hives in to it and let them make a queen. That way all your hives will still be working and you can get a new queen with her genetics. At that point if she needs to go it would be easy to just pinch he and add the queen from the nuc.
If you liked the queen before,off with her head .This way you know the winter survival chance are better. Plus i would add 2 to 3 frames of emerging brood in 10 days just to strengthen the hive and help the new queen get the population up faster.These cold nights we been getting don't rely do much to my queens they are going crazy even got a few swarms from splits.
I'm in a similar predicament I'm thinking of taking her out of the hive and putting her into a nuc this way I can keep supplying fresh brood to the hive while they create a queen problem is they haven't made any queen cells or much in the way of drone so I'm reluctant as I thought if the bees wasn't happy they would at least stated too superseded her she was an end off season queen that I managed to grab a queen cell and place in their shes quite skinny weres yours looks like she decently mated so I'm in a pickle a little bit because my other hive is the same
Since you asked......Assuming there's no evidence of varroa or tracheal mites, I'd move her to a Nuc. I'd give her some syrup and a patty and see if her colony takes off. I would probably also give her a frame of brood from the Russian hive. I've read that the Queens best year is her 2nd summer. So don't let that go. My books say the Italians are late to get going in the spring so you cannot compare her activity to the Russians.
I know you didn't ask but.....
Also I would save those poor arborvitae from deer browsing by placing 3' wooden stakes around your enclosure with burlap stapled to the stakes. That should be enough to keep the deer out of them if the burlap -stake fence is less than 10' from the e-fence.
Once the deer find them in a dearth of browse it will be harder to keep out until they look like popsicles with a tuft of leaves only about 6'. You may also have to spray them with rotten egg solution.
Thank you for the advice. We don't have "heavy" deer population here. There are deer, but I can go a whole year without actually seeing one. I see hoof prints in the snow and they nibble my apple trees, but they aren't too bad.
Are you suggesting the burlap/stake fence be OUTSIDE the trees? Or surrounding each tree? I put a 3' gap between the electric fence and the circumference of the trees so I can easily move between the trees and fence and keep them pruned. I don't want the trees growing into the fence.
I'd put the stakes with burlap on the outside and let the poor arborvitae be between the e-fence and the burlap. There should not be more than 10' apart or the deer may get in and still be comfortable grazing inside the burlap. If burlap does not stay up in your area with wind and ice etc then I would go to what we are doing --- (which is excessive I agree but we were driven to this after 3 years and many losses ) --- we are using pallets on 2 sides and snow fence on the other two with 2 metal stakes on each diagonal. For now it might seem like you don't have deer but when they have little browse in winter those arborvitae and going to look like a Golden Coral buffet to them.
Do you value the strain? If so let them re-queen. I'd keep the Russians and Italians separate for comparisons on productivity etc. How desperate are you to push on with building hive population? With weather as it is over there do you need a queen quickly before winter hits to build a strong hive? I'd lean towards buying a new Italian queen if time is of the essence. Good luck mate!
I'd add a frame of capped brood from one of the Russian hives and give them a week or two to see if the population boost helps kick the queen into gear. I think she's just limited by the small amount of nurse bees she has right now.
When pollen coming in the hive is spotty or below a certain level, the queen will keep laying, but the workers will eat the eggs, until pollen stores are adequate to feed the growing amount of brood. Your queen may be laying a fine pattern, the hive may have just ran uncomfortably low on pollen for a short spell, and the workers responded by eating the eggs, until they get enough of a pollen stock pile to accommodate the amount of eggs the queen can lay. I'm not saying your queen is still good, I'm just saying it's a common miss conception that is over looked regarding queens, and people will think the queens bad, when in fact she's not. Queens will last between 3 and 5 years depending on how well she was grown and bred. Sure you can order another queen, but if pollen stores pick up; then it appears she starts laying good again, just take 2 frames of brood from your strong hives, and make a nuke split with the new queen. That way your not wasting a perfectly good queen, just because the workers were uncomfortable with the pollen flow.
me mo dint you watch the video there is a full frame of pollen...and Italian honey bees make brood no matter what unless it gets cold...this may be applicable for the Russians cause they make brood according to the supplies available..
Whoa, really? There was a frame packed with pollen. It certainly doesn't look like a shortage of pollen... but maybe there was a dip in availability a couple weeks ago and I didn't notice. I had no idea workers would eat eggs! When I adopted her, her dot looked green (2014) compared to the other two blue (2015) queens I had. But now, her dot appears more blueish. So I'm not exactly certain. She's either 2014 or 2015. She came from the same exact supplier on the same day as my other two hives last year.
Rifin Silva - Of course I watched the video, and he did say there was lots of pollen coming in now, but that doesn't mean there was a week ago. It's not an instant transition sometimes from times of durth, and it may take another week before the workers stop eating eggs. Italian honeybees may make brood no matter what, and as you heard him say there is all stages of brood in the hive. But that doesn't mean when stores run low, they don't limit brood production, as that is what's happening in his hive. Even Italian bees will limit brood production when in a durth and supplies run low, and they will even eat larvae if they have nothing to feed them.
Vino Farm - Yeah they will eat eggs and brood if supplies run low. I recommend source information from national honey show, because they use a lot of career university professors for their ceminars, who have doctorals in entomology, and that specializes in apis malifera. It keeps me up to date with the latest studies and techniques. My suggestion choose the new queen of your choice, and when it finally shows up, evaluate her brood pattern then. With all the pollen coming in now, and if your feeding syrup, you should notice increased laying by the time your new queen shows up, assuming it will take longer then a week. Even if her failer is confirmed and you decide to replace her. If you want some native genetics in your bee yard, put her in a nuke with a 2 brood frame split, and let them superced her. She'll keep poorly laying but the population numbers will remain constant through the transition, and when the new queen comes in to laying, about a month after the process, you'll have another strong hive before winter sets in, plus potentially many other queens if you want to do more 2 frame splits, from frames off your strong hives.
need more bee to make more give her chance look like she only layin what they can keep warm
just leave them alone and let them work. her prodginey will be just as strong as she was. can you garuntee that with a bought queen?
With a new queen the swarm will increase, this queen almost does not do posture, maybe she is already old (with all respect), but maybe if you feed the swarm the queen better in the posture, or else I think an Africanized queen bee would be very Well, here in Brazil there are only Africanized bees and the queens are very good. Good job.
add 1 drop per . gal. of lemon grass oil to your syrup. this will wake them up. during honey flow use a spray bottle on top of the frames.
your tees look amazing,
Isn't that the same queen most people said to pinch? Let the hive decide for itself. but if you really want to Re-queen then use Italian. If you let the hive re-queen itself isn't it a good chance the new queen will mate with the Russians?
MerkDolf Only if they produce drones. Probably too new a hive to be doing that
wait longer for warmer weather....
I would go with option 4. Come on, you just have to preserve her genetics, they are fantastic.
I would create a Nuc with some pollen and honey bracketing that frame of brood (the black one), shake some bees off brood frames of your two Russian hives (the workers will return to their respective hives but the Russian nurse bees will remain with any bees that were on the black brood frame when you took the split. They should create supersedure cells from eggs in the black frame thereby preserving her proven Italian genetics. Leave the existing queen with her existing hive (possibly also in a nuc) to (hopefully) recover if she can.
Tough decision my friend, I would not want to be in your shoes right now.
I am sorry, but that is the best advice I have right now, I hope it has not compounded your decision.
You do not have much time to come to a decision, so go and bake some bread and mull it over. ;D
I am partial to Carniolian 's myself. They are a gentle breed, and they are Hygenic, so helps with mite control. I have no experience with Russians, but have been told by a beekeeper that has them that they are hot. Italians are gentle, and are known. I would opt for the Carniolian, just for a variety, and also for the genetics.
I say make a nuc without a queen. Have them re-queen themselves while you give Queen Diva more time. If she does not start back to laying then off with her head!!! If she starts back to laying keep her as the Queen. As for that nuc... Keep it. Steal from it to make all your hives stronger. If need be re-queen the other hives from it. But what do i know this is my first year of beekeeping. edited because of spelling errors and space monkeys
I think your over thinking it!
Give it some time and then make a move.
I don't really know anything but I like 3a. just because I've never heard of Carniolan.
Carniolans are a Slovenian hybrid. They are supposed to be hardier than Italians and extremely docile.
Vino Farm im waiting for my slow data to load this video. what's the down side to this breed?
No huge downside. They are supposed to be great. I'm more asking about the concept of introducing a NON-Italian queen into an Italian hive.
Vino Farm ooooh. gotcha. thanks 😀
It's more about the timing than the genetics. I placed Hawiian bred italians into a NUC with bees that I shook from frames of mildly africanized "mutts". Just follow the normal procedures - make sure there are no other queens, leave them queenless for 12 to 24 hours. Maybe sprinkle a dash of cinnamon across the frame tops at the beginning of the queenless period. Then introduce the queen as you would with a new package. Leave in cage for 2 or 3 days, or make a "frame cage" so she can wander a little but not be killed.
All that being said, I would do option #4 - order a package of Italians, plus 2 additional queens. Split the package into 3 NUCs. Then if this one fails, you can hive combine. If she is fine, then you have 3 more hives!
I would vote for carniolan, gentler genetics, brood up fast, frugal with stores in winter. but do cluster smaller in the winter. just what I have read, no personal experience. I do have a nuc I started with a carniolan this year to see how they do in the summer heat.
logical decision is to get mated queen to keep them building instead of waiting for new brood on a gamble the queen will make it back from mating flight.
hey wouldnt any new queens from the italian hive simply mate with drones they are most likely to encounter from the russian hives? they are still the same same species just different lines. that could make strong individual queens plus you know that one italian queen is an over winter survivor and she may likely pass that one in her young.
that is asuming the russians are producing drone bees to begin with. sorry for the asumption
Choose carniolian queen, it is Slovenian native bee, we have tough winters here I think it will be the best choice for you.
Okay if you think of buying a new queen...
Italian queen:They are super gentle and they make lots of bees throughout the summer...and they make so much honey!but they are not disease resistant like the Russians..
carniolan queen: They are good honey producers and use a low amount of propolis. Carniolans fly in cold weather and are thus considered good bees..they winter excellent..but they tend to swarm a lot!
Russian queen: The USDA tested them for mite resistance and found that they were indeep resistant, especially when kept out of the presence of other breeds. Russians are also disease-resistant, which makes them even more sought-after.
Russians over winter well, and tend to get along well in colder climates as well as warmer ones..
but,the honey production is fairly low...
so as you see each have their own good good deeds as well as drawbacks..it's your option..
My opinion:the Russians, they seems to be sutable for your climate unless you want honey...they do make honey but not as much as the other two.
Thanks, Rifin, I am aware of the pros and cons of the different breeds. I think my question is more about the probability of success of introducing something OTHER than an Italian. These are Italian bees, so do you think a Russian would be a good choice for requeening? Or would that have a great chance of failure?
Vino Farm What I'm thinking is since you have a lot of varroa problem...only the Russians are more resistant to them and they are excellent for surviving long winter..but re queening a Italian hive into a Russian is a real tough job..... I would recommend you to take a look at this website which explains everything..(content.ces.ncsu.edu/comparison-of-russian-and-italian-honey-bees ) but there is 95% chance of Russians to survive the Winter..but it's a risky job you may loose the hive..
Vino Farm Ya,it is possible to re queen but it's a bit risky..but re queening this hive with a Russian works out! next year I'm sure you will see survivers..
I meant lol nurse bees and stores as well in the nuc.
Kinda forgot that part.
You left out the obvious 4th option, Leave the hive alone. When you moved the top box down, you interfered in the heated ceiling of the hive, moved the sugar source farther away. Also, the bees you see today are not the bees of weeks gone by, they are the emerged brood, the old workers from winter are dying a natural death, the hive is younger and was on its way to doubling in size. Stop moving them around. Let them know their space . I agree with Thomas Gordon. If I were you, I'd have 6 deep boxes for the 3 of them and walk away now as they are running out of time, Next year is your break out year. Smiles to you,
Well, I took the top level off and now they are in a single 10-frame medium. We are having a rainy, cool week right now, so if there is a weather issue, this is only going to make things worse. We have had no hot days yet and a lot of rain. Great for fruit trees, bad for bees.
When you say "I'd have 6 deep boxes for the 3 of them" do you mean I should have deep boxes on all three hives? I'm confused. These bees came on mediums and they have not ever been strong enough to introduce them to deep boxes. I'm still REDUCING their box space. If they take off, I guess I could make their next level a deep and transition them that way.
"and walk away now as they are running out of time"
Are you telling me to leave them alone? I've been giving them 2 full weeks between checks!
The bees in the video are the adopted neighbor bees from last fall. He had them in all medium boxes. My mentor keeps in ALL mediums, too. So the bees came in mediums and the emergency pulled frames I received last fall were mediums from my mentor. So I just stuck with mediums. All the woodenware and pilled comb I had were mediums.
I'm doing deeps on the two new Russian nucs because the Flow hive is deeps and the Russians came on deeps.
I'm going to check out your video links....
Wont they make queen cells if they sense that she is too old to produce??
I thought they would make queen cells, but they're just working away. I'm just very concerned that she hasn't laid eggs in weeks and her pattern is all over the place... which are classic signs of a failing queen. They should be building like crazy, but the population hasn't changed in over a month.
I think its the weather...my brand new queens are doing the same thing in New York.
Thomas Gordon... Hmmm. That's interesting to hear.
what are your varroa numbers? Did you squash test for nosema? Did your larva have any color showing EFB? Did you treat the entire yard for all of the above? Stop looking at individual colonies and equal the strength between all the hives in the yard. Always have 20% as nucs to use for requeening failing colonies. Don't ever wait. 12 days is 10% of the honey season. You returned nothing this entire season for all of your labor. when inspecting make nucs and take to the next yard. Bring nucs from the other yard back. This is basic beekeeping for someone with more than a couple of hives.
Sorry, it sounds like you haven't watched many of my videos. I'm not a commercial beekeeper, so honey is not at the top of my list of things to worry about. I'm a beginner and still learning basically everything. This is the very beginning of my second season. What you see in the video is the extent of my bees.
This hive is coming out of a harsh winter and only has about 2 frames of bees. Maybe one total frame of brood. I'm hesitant to test for varroa at the moment, because I'd need to use about 20% of the hive to do the test. I can literally see each bee and there is no visible varroa. There are no drone cells or capped drone brood at all for varroa to be hiding in. There are no signs of nosema. The hive seems quite healthy, but the queen had stopped laying eggs. (She has since restarted.)
The other two hives in the yard are nucs installed about a week prior.
You give me the reasons your hive might be slow (weather); you tell me that unless you find eggs, you might have to replace her (and then find brood and eggs), and then conclude that your original idea (killing the queen) was a foregone conclusion. And yet the experts who actually know, and would launch the recovery strategy themselves, (the bees) apparently feel there is no problem with the queen that needs solving. I suggest pinching the beekeeper.
Gregory Ircink I've admitted that I jumped the gun on my conclusion and I have decided to give her a couple weeks to let the weather warm up. I didn't DO ANYTHING and stated in the video that I wanted to talk things through in the comments... which is exactly what happened. I'm here to learn. Many people have left helpful comments which I and probably hundreds of other people have learned from. I encourage you to browse the comments here and take note of what helpful comments look like. Have a great day.
I really like your videos and appreciate your taking the time to make them. In retrospect I guess my remark was more snarky than helpful - OK, possibly not helpful at all. Sorry.
No worries. The urge to be snarky is tough to suppress. You should have seen the first draft of my response. Thanks for watching the videos. If you do have something helpful to add, I always encourage it. Hundreds, maybe thousands of new beekeepers read these comments. There's a lot of information here. I really try to keep things positive.
She almost got pinched last year and bounced back, i hope she gets a little more time :/
I know! I don't want to kill her. Waiting for another surprise.
why don't you just make a all-queen hive collect all the queens and just put them in one hive
nothing wrong with that queen. those bees know when there is need to replace the queen. too much experimenting.
Got it.
I would let them requeen themselves because of good genetic
please give her more time!
That seems to be the majority opinion!
My gut reaction would be to replace with a new Italian Queen, highest chance of survival and quick hive resurgence. But the idea of requeening with a new type of bee sounds like a fun experiment.
You don't have much experience with the Russians yet. I would consider re-queening with the Carniolan or Italian just to hedge your bet. Or let the hive re-queen naturally and start a forth hive with a new queen and new bees. (P.S. I have no beekeeping experience.)
I would go with curtain number 3 and an Italian queen. Try and get one as local as possible so her strain is used to the weather. You have to think life expectancy, cluster that small they are probably just covering die off not building.
sounds like you have a older queen.i kill all my queens every spring as soon as i see drones flying.the old queens seem to swarm every spring and you lose all them bees.i just let them make a queen.i do feed them for a month while they make a new queen.its just my way and may not be right for everybody. let me know if i can help.you can check out my site its- Steves Outdoor World-