Facts: - MM in fun mode is NOT random. It balanced the average WR of both teams. Better players have worse team mates. This has always been the case. - in random battles, granted, sometimes there were unbalanced teams. But in the long (not that long) run, ecery one was seeing the same games. - turbo battles are an 'avalanche' effect. When one team loses one player, the remaining players are generally not good enough to recover the imbalance. If the player dying is the good one in SBMM, the same effect is obtained
About the turbo battles: Games were definitely more often one sided before SBMM, but a team quickly falling happened to my team more often in sbmm. As said, enemies were getting to good positions, my teammates yoloing - very often i was down 2 tanks right at the start and could only farm for some damage. That did not happen to enemies anymore.Before sbmm there was also a much higher chance of coming back from such a disadvantage, as you could assume the enemies to be just as good or bad as your teammates.
Fun modes are totally random games, like WG says: "In fun modes, the matchmaker will remain completely random." .. And IMO they are just terrible waste of time to play. There is no fun if my team wins 7-0. In opposite cases when there is AFK in your team and/or enemy has 6 gold tanks and every player over 10k battles and in my own team other players with 2k battles has "standard tank" still in grinding - I just can't hold my team alone.
@@tallitonttu4035they were not. If the forums were still available I would send you there. The WR of both teams were statistically equal. This means that a good player had worse team mates. Did that change with the introduction of SBMM? Maybe, I did not check. Are fun modes 'fun'? Everyone is entilted to his opinion. I quite like 'realistic' mode.
Outlier accounts are not only limited to really good players. For example: - Bad players who sealclubbed for most of their games so their stats LOOK good - Accounts with a huge variance of winrates which have hundreds of thousands of games on them - Players who have improved after a long time of being average - Bought accounts - etc. etc. And this is before mentioning that on smaller servers, many times these outliers are truly just that: there's nobody else like them within the entire matchmaking pool. And they absolutely ruin the matchmaking. Imagine that "good" player on your team that SBMM put there isn't actually good because they bought that account or was just sealclubbing or just had an insane number of games in some OP tank. Now the entire match is just screwed, because what the MM labeled as a good player is actually just an average player. Another issue you didn't mention is tank and tier variance. This is a game focused on diversity of tanks. No two tanks are the same, we have different tank types and tiers fighting each other, and on top of that we have people running different equipment, provisions, playing stock tanks (which can range from average to borderline unplayable), or even a difference in goal (just playing trying to relax vs. tryharding for wins). SBMM ceases to function when outliers exist. Because the weights of the averages aren't reduced in any way, we end up with what you described. It's like having that one really smart guy in your class "destroy the curve" because his score is so impossibly high compared to the rest of you that the requirements for getting an A increases for everybody. The SBMM somehow expects the difference in stats to be EQUAL to the difference in skill, but that's not how blitz works. One player can't just "make up" for significant deficits in multiple teammates. And on top of that, a MASSIVE PROBLEM is that the SBMM does not care about tiers, if your tank is stock, what tank type you are playing, etc. If you are an outlier player who is really really good, you will always be pitted against this continuous death roulette of multiple 55-60%, regardless of whether you're top tier, bottom tier, stock grinding a new tank, trying to play something off-meta to try to relax, etc. etc. If you want to win and have a decent time, you have to play tier X in a hardcore meta tank and sweat your balls off every single game for no reason other than SBMM basically forcing you to. And this is before considering that your teammates are also subject to all these random things that they might not even know or care about. And lastly, while games are more tense, nobody wants it to be tense 100% of the time. Steamrolls are terrible sure but every game being a sweaty race to see who can clear tanks faster is also just not the point of gameplay. SBMM kills Blitz cause it inherently is a mechanic introduced to remove diversity in a game where every single draw of blitz was originally built around diversity. It goes against the entire point of the game, and it's trash. __Synx__/1011271503
Thanks for the long answer :) can only agree with what you said, good additions. I've actually had another chapter in my script about how representative Wr is due to different goals, as you also mentioned. I know many people who reached really high stats after being a noob for many thousands of games and suddenly starting to learn and improve. These people (myself included) were at some point still on 60% overall, but a high 70%er with 3.4k avg in 30 days. When being at 40k games, the stats really need a long time to catch up to the level. Overall WR is just as little representative to skill as ratings. Btw, if you still add your ign and id you will enter the battle pass giveaway as well
Thank you! I will surely not quit anytime soon, even the SBMM couldn't actually get me to do it, but I had drastically reduced the amount of games and played no more randoms, but ratings instead. There's still so much I want to cover in videos as well so that there would be a lot of new content, even if I didn't stream that actively anymore :) I am currently a lot more motivated to finally bring those ideas to life.
small little explanation why you cannot use winrate as a single factor. As a famous youtuber once said in one video, the winrate of certain tanks (same effect can be applied to this circumstance but as in players) cannot and will not change that much of the overall winrate. as stated by wargaming, the sbmm does take into account different stats, also battles played. this is a weighted average. in the end, you cannot directly compare these datasets as they are inherently different, explanation following. in a world, where the average player has less than 50% winrate, said weighted average will always play down into this matchmaking. as i played during this update on my main account, i have encountered games where there were many experienced players (55-65% at 20k games or more) fighting me at 65%/30k with teammates at around 49%/15k games. basically, it puts you into a disadvantage, just like you described. yet, you cannot use this winrate overall, as some 60% players are seal clubbers and cant really help you as they do not have that much experience at different tiers. also, many inexperienced/convenience players are still getting absolutely railed when one good player is in their team, fostering even more despise and despair between them. this also has an effect on the game balance itself. good players with the intent of actually playing, play even more strong tanks, like the STB or FV215b as they are some of the few options at high tier. you habe increasingly less diversity in tanks, which is sad to see and will effect the tank‘s winrate heavily. Tanks that are really extreme, as the 183 or Jageroo, but even E100s and VK72s are being played more and more, as they require less skill to play, yet have a higher outcome. this also makes the games more stale, as you always have 3 tds on both teams, which does not help the meta at all. people that do try to fight the avalanche effect, will ultimately still lose and get increasingly frustrated, as they cannot compete with whatever happens. i for myself will write a full breakdown of the effects, as its way too much for a yt comment, based on data from blitzstars and try to relay the findings as well as the outcome this will have for the community.
Thanks a lot for the comment :) Luckily the old MM is coming back very soon. This video is also only a "short" summary of the pages of feedback that i wrote to wg employees directly. Ive spend about 3-4 hours to break down the arguments and sort them so that it kind of sounds like a cohesive argument in this video, so scripting took about 50% of the work here. If you are into data and stats, you will probably also really enjoy blitzanalysiz.com/ - I will be interested to see the results of this patch there in a couple of weeks.
I honestly have been taking refuge in rating battles lately which are definitely funnier because everyone is more careful about their actions, almost no one is yoloing, everybody want to win and consequently there is more team work. I'm just an average player but I felt the changes in the matchmaking really a lot..
Omg exactly what I've been doing since the update. Only way not to lose your winrate. And the teams are more careful and like you said no yolowing. I will continue playing in ratings until it's fixed.
Great recap and analysis of your experience with the SBMM ! I concur with a lot of your points and did suffer myself, even though I am only a 61%er with 30k battles. Before the update I had 68-70% last 30/60 days, after the update it dropped to 55 ish.. even in PLT. And honestly I lost the motivation for the game - and for making YT content, cause why bother - like what you said at ca. 10:05, “why should people see us play?” Some months ago I started what I thought would be a series of videos about “basics”. But making dedicated content for players who want to become better, would be detrimental with the SBMM, since they would only get so good, that they would start having more bad players on their teams, even before the WR would go significantly up, due to the SBMM would take avr. damage, spotting etc. into the MM calculations.. So I really hope we will see a revitalization of the “old” MM, and see some of the good players back in the game, so we once again will be rewarded for our efforts and skill, and not punished. Thanks for making this Naino - you’re great! 💪🏼
I played this game almost 5 years after that time WG do some stupid decisions like changing autoaim or transfer russsian on EU server and now SBMM. I quit
So many true words, thanks. Since the last MM i already quitted playing WoTB, well, not totally, but smthing like 90% less than earlier. Anyway, i am not playing "seriously" - it is just a game and i have many other more significant activities. But as a 65% wr player i think my 75k battles (plus fun modes ofc) is enough for this game bcs i do not like any game mode anymore. Situation is pretty much same than in WoT, where after 4 years and 80k battles: "Last battle: 16/04/2017 23:20". I had a little break and tried WoTB 2018 starting with "T1 Cunningham". Like i said earlier I played Blitz "just for fun" - and isn't it obvious what i do if there is no fun left in game...
@@n9o Thanks. That is true. Your video was first time I got that information. I can not find from official WG pages anything about that MM coming back. Anyway, I think I just retire while still in top. I have played WoT/WoTB since 2013. And I was not anymore a young boy at that time. The reason to start WoT was that I was not anymore fast enough to play FPS games like CS, AmericasArmy, DayOfDefeat, and so on. So, I started to play these "slow motion FPS" tank games ... ;-))
a few reasons why mm is better than sbmm Accessibility: MM allows players of all skill levels to be matched together, which can be more welcoming to newcomers or casual players who may not want consistently challenging matches. Variety of Experience: MM can lead to a wider range of matchups, including matches where players may face opponents of varying skill levels. This variety can keep gameplay more dynamic and interesting. Shorter Queue Times: SBMM often requires more precise matchmaking, leading to longer wait times for players to find suitable matches. Conversely, MM can result in quicker queue times since the system isn't as focused on finding perfectly balanced matches. Less Pressure: For some players, SBMM can create a more competitive atmosphere where every match feels intense. MM may offer a more relaxed environment where players can experiment with different strategies or play styles without feeling the pressure to constantly perform at their best. Community Building: MM can foster a sense of community as players interact with a wider range of opponents. This can lead to friendships, rivalries, and other social connections within the game. Skill Improvement: Facing opponents of varying skill levels in MM can allow players to learn and improve. Playing against more skilled opponents can be a valuable learning experience and can help players develop their skills over time. in short terms sbmm sucks I alr have the bp so if I win what would I get? yourdeath145/682312962
I completely understand your point as a great player, as an average player i am very happy about the changes to mmr. They should have introduced a new measure and display for skill at the same time though, be it gun marks or whatever system. Then people would stop looking at winrate, and another indicator could help define great players.
The problem with the old MM.... Blitz started June 26th, 2014, and I started playing Blitz April 2020, which means that when I started my second month of game play, entering tier 5, I was matched with players with almost 6 years experience for their advantage. Fulfilling basic missions was extremely difficult due to being clubbed by veterans on a regular basis. Even being able to obtain the highest hp damage taken from amongst 14 players, but, usually ending up in defeat due to lack of experience, or by being shot by 7 players. Obtaining the highest hp taken was accomplished while still performing team goals, like capping bases, etc. Unlike other players who use their teammates as cannon fodder in order to maximize their farming. Now, in a few days I will reach my 4 year mark, easily able to destroy >50%WR players on a regular basis. In the short time the SBMM was up, my WR increased significantly. Does this mean I am a better player because of my WR? Certainly not. Blitz is a business, first and foremost. Blitz assigns the teams. Blitz has coddled the players who have helped them to their present success. Currently Blitz is modifying the MM because they recognize that the MM is broken. And there are enough new players fed up with the lopsided teams to cause them to modify the old MM. WR doesn't mean you are a skilled player...it means you have been pampered with steamrolling weaker inexperienced players in an old broken MM. Time to prove you really deserve a >50%WR, time to compete with competitive and equally experienced opponents!
Thanks for the input! Yes, it is kind of imperfect that the best players get to play against the worst, that makes for a very unsatisfying gaming experience for starters. WG is definitely trying to keep more beginners in the game for longer, but they also don't want to lose their existing community. But as I mentioned in the video, winning less in sbmm has nothing to do with being incapable, but rather enemies being better than own teammates when you have a high WR. For everyone beneath 60% the mm means that you are either in balanced teams or having the advantage, should the enemies have a 70%er - you are unlikely to get the 70%er into your team. Beyond that, playing against Good or bad players, playing for dmg, wr, platooning or other games modes are each completely different disciplines and require different skills. It's not easy to switch from one to the other flawlessly.
Havent played on my main for quite some time since this mm came out, i have some battles that were platoons meant to be "fun" that ended up beeing pretty unfun. At least reroll mm wasnt affected which entertained me for some time and provided decent amounts of fun. Hopefully the next update comes soon.
You are absolutely right in your presentation about SBMM, but unfortunately I don't think it brings the old EU server back to the level it once was, after WG decided to merge the EU server with the CIS/RUS server. The level has simply become so low that the difference between the new MM and the old one will be minimal anyway..sad but true. However, I will definitely welcome the old MM when it comes back again, as it can only get better..
Sorry, but how do you think that EU+CIS resembles SBMM in any way? You just said that cis players were worse in your opinion, but in Sbmm the opponents are better. Also the merge will not happen in between the introduction of sbmm and its removal, it was already happening many months ago - some people momentarily lost some avg/ wr, but almost every single one got back to their previous level only shortly after. As I've played on a reroll and in standard MM on Na server, I can totally agree with different servers bringing along different playstyles - but the differences iron out within just a few hundred or thousands of games, since people get used to the new meta. After all it has nothing to do with any genetic identity of playing in certain way depending on the location, it is just about what we are used to.
@@n9o I've been playing for many years, actually since 2014. I can see that the game changed significantly after WG chose to merge EU with CIS/RUS...no harm done, but the game changed from being ok strategic, everyone could ( or almost everyone) understand the game and what side, heavy and med side was, how to position yourself to help the team, as well as that the communication was top notch in English, so that everyone was involved and etc Now it is with restricted chat, players who argue in Russian/Ukrainian, many of them cant understand English. My opinion is therefore that wg has failed max, by combining the two servers with each other, and the eu server is more or less destroyed, and not so much fun to play on anymore. There is so many barriers that come into the gane now. Sbmm has only made it even more difficult to be a high-skilled player...but that's from my point of view.
It’s definitely been a struggle with sbmm, with the main thing I’ve noticed is much greater inconsistencies in battles. I’m at 65.39% or so career wr with close to 8.5k games and 2.3k at damage. Before sbmm i felt that most battles usually were usually won or lost because one team made the big mistake first, not because they were inferior to the other time on a skill basis. However after sbmm the battle results showed that my teammates were much worse than the opponents. Players from good clans were always on the other team and not on mine. I’ve found that playing fewer battles helps you retain your former stats while large amounts is really detrimental to your 30d. It also feels like WG might have slightly tweaked the mm after the outburst because it felt slightly better a few weeks after the change, compared to when it first came out. Maybe that was just me changing my playstyle to win more. Overall it was a terrible idea for them to make such a drastic change without any feedback or testing from actually skilled players instead of their own less-than- capable employees. Either way, it needs to go and i can’t wait for the day i can update the game and get rid of it for good. Great video, and thanks for doing the giveaway too! BlackBeltBlitzer/1036455333
Totally with you on post points :) I've also had to adjust my playstyle a lot - I've not played many ratings before and tourneys are still an entirely different story. My playstyle is perfecting maximum aggression against mediocre players for best damage. But enemies became kind of unpredictable in that they could aim, but were still not playing the best way either. Yet I've also had the occasional good session that made me think of sbmm being turned off, but that wasn't the case. Generally playing only 10-20 games is always best for maximizing stats, that's when the situational awareness is best.
As a 77k battles 52.5% Wr player. I found it OK. Though at times I couldn't believe we hadn't won the game already with the new mm and regularly would lose that type of battle because 2 of the 3 players left would be below par . I think it taught me to try hang on to my hp more(I should have known already but hey ho) .I think my average damage probably went up though not winrate with the new mm. soulinthemachine (eu server).
I think the best thing that WG could do is do two types of modes or mm where people from cis play with cis players and eu with OR do special mm requirements, enter one mm requires to have 45 wr, lv2 mm requires 50 wr, lvl3 55 and so on, maybe that would sort the problems out.
I am pretty sure that 99.9% of players were back to pre-merge stats or above only few months after, if they even dropped at all. That is what I have seen when looking at the development of a bunch of people. Your last proposal actually is (kind of) in place already, or has been even before sbmm, yet isnt being too strict. We basically have 3 queues: one for beginners
SBMM just proves that WRs pre-SBMM are bogus inflated stats. If you were really that skilled, your performance would be reflected with positive results. SBMM is a step in right direction.
@@n9o Yes. Hence, my statement. Pre-SBMM WRs catered towards those who have played since Blitz was launched, loading battles which favored OGs. Granting OGs battles that allowed seal clubbing. Conflating WRs and making players believe they were so skilled. SBMM, not perfect, but better than pre-2024 MM, clearly reveals how so-called good players were struggling against better opponents.
@@SchwarzenVolk I believe it's you who struggle here. The math is so simple and you still dont see it. That being said i dont mean to disrespect you in any way. Let me clarify what i mean. A high winrate player (65+) who averages 3000 damage per game is expected to have twice the Damage Per Minute then a 50% in order to carry the others in this SBMM and that ofc never ever happens because you have what you have and that never changes. You cannot have more damage then your tank possess but this version of a SBMM forces you to have that in order to carry your team. The way a good player gets high damage is by surviving, not hitting every shot. He survives until endgame by knowing where and when to push, how to use/reset camo and bushes and tactics. All those skillbased variables gets thrown out the window when the rest of the team dies in less then 2 minutes since they have NO clue about any of those things. Skill is basically removed as a factor in this way. You are left alone, with no chance and it goes very very fast and there is no way to compensate
@@WatcherEight You are not paying attention. A high win rate player who averages 3000 per game in the old MM, does so against weak opponents. Thus, obtaining higher win rates due to defeating weaker players. Creating a false sense of ability. Ergo, the SBMM being a stumbling block for pampered players used to winning in the old MM against players with markedly inferior experience.
You are sort of right. A player with 70%/3k dmg is only possible if he is facing the average playerbase. Does that mean that he is not better than the average playerbase? Of course he is, by a large margin. SBMM is meaningful only if there are Leagues. See that like football. What is the point of mixing 1ere League players with National League players so that National League teams do not lose automatically if they meet a 1ere League team? Would that mean that now 1ere League players are just as average as National League players?
in certain ranges I formed a t10, I was in t9 in failed mode and I only lost the battles because of my mates he all had less than 1000 battles while I had 15000 wtf
Extra comment - tooning. Our clan is the opposite of sweaty, we just play to have fun, and many members have average wr. Before sbmm, tooning would often place us against a sweaty toon, especially if we were playing tier 8-10. I’m 55%, and my toon mate might be 50% or high 40’s, and we would often lose to the sweaty toon. With sbmm, it was a bit of the opposite, if they had a sweaty toon, it would be team balanced out against our 52% combo, and I could focus and beat their toon, because they had less support. I’m not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing, but average player tooning was as such, more fun with sbmm.
Can totally understand that :) with random mm you can also assume that there are 5 avg players on each team + your platoon or that of the enemies. So the enemies will be stronger due to that most likely. But if you are seeing a strong opponent or platoon against you in sbmm, then you know that the rest of their team will be weaker than your teammates (unless you also have some strong players as well). As a result, it sadly makes sense for avg players to focus good ones in sbmm, while it mostly backfired in random mm.
Like I said before, SBMM feels like UEFA telling the big clubs they should play with 8 players because they're winning too much. Being punished for knowing how to play shows how much WG understands about their own game imho. Thank god they're removing it next update and hopefully they'll never ever try to implement it again in random battles and try to actually make ratings more about skill instead of just spamming battles. Looking forward to see you stream random battles again 👌 FuselierX/523612651
Hey ... Thank you for a very well presented and balanced discussion on the SBMM issue. Long term player ... this update has been a game changer. As soon as the release was installed it all went to crap. I could almost tell a win or loss in first 10 seconds. Scan the lineups, see how many tanks move at game start, see direction they head, do they have cammo, look at rankings, etc. The number of afks were staggering, number of tanks dying in first minute of the game was crushing, the feeling of not being able to influence the result was bad, this was not a result of hard work, thorough testing, advanced thinking, that's all BS .. sorry. Think about it .... they could have released this change incrementally, gradually increasing the balancing.They could monitor the results and determine whether they go ro next level or hold. They didn't ... they just released an abomination on the community with total disregard for the consequences. Diversity of tanks fell away as players recognised they needed to play their most OP tanks to win games. Games were filled with Chimera Sharks 752s Smashers Annihilators .... like ratings. I had one game where I looked at the red lineup and the bottom four tanks all had ratings between 45 and 50, ours had none ... by the time I defeated the oppoent I was facing our whole team was dead. It was a 6-0 wipeout. It got to the point I felt I couldn't play a weak tank ... as I would look at the reds and their same teir players would have OP tank .... I was a problem for my team. Was this WGs plan in reality .... to make players so frustrated that they start buying tanks like the T77 and KV5 for 10k gold to try and be more competitive ? When I said game changer at the start its the dawning of reality for many players who, on the back of the inept SBMM and the "in game economy" collector tanks fiasco are losing faith in WGs ability to balance player community happiness and profit. I've just been playing special game modes to help with clan missions. Certainly will cut right back on purchases because WG may well be heading in a direction I don't want to go. Its wait and see time for me .... time heals all wounds ... but its going to be a long time. May seem a little hypocritical lol but Id still like to enter .... who dosent like a freebie. Server : Asia IGN : Catch_20_2 Player number : 2015245086
Thanks for your input :) I can assure to you that WG has been testing sbmm and thought they achieved their goal of battle duration increasing. They just didn't pay quite enough attention to the drastic impact on high wr players and maybe underestimated the effect, since there are not many top players to deliver data in a short testing period. As they immediately rowed back the changes only a few weeks into sbmm, I believe that they were overlooking the data in the first phase already, but luckily they were willing to admit the mistake and listen to the feedback. I'm sure they will be more careful with such a big change in the future.
I don't need a BP nor gold. The SBMM was poorly implemented. Also, they should have done like ratings. Must having a 100% researched tank and fully crewed up. Because with the SBMM, if you are a good player and grinding a tank than its more difficult too. Albeit , I do know that good players use fun modes to grind. But still. Anyway, it's gone now.
I don’t play random battles any more, rating sometimes, but now only fun modes…for me, this last option is the only one to really have fun in this game… and i’ve been around for quite some times
I'm a 45% and found the new MM challenging to say the least. Should they drop it all together? No. But it needs to be researched, tested, modified, tested...rinse and repeat before it is released again. Return of the old MM is not the answer, just the lesser of 2 evils! Thx, N90. Good breakdown. 👍
Thanks for your feedback :) Honestly, their quick change back to the old MM also surprised me a little, would have definitely expected some changes. But at the same time there are many players who arent even considering to give a reworked MM a try and WG will have seen that as well. As I mentioned in the video, I would really hope for ratings to be more skill based so that they were offering a way of playing competitively on whatever one's level might be. Dont forget to send your IGN/ ID still to enter the giveaway!
I would love to have a series of replays from a player like you. I have observed that my games were off in term of composition as compared to the playerbase stats. I am wondering how it happens for a 45%er.
@@gallabru97 as I tested playing on a 44% account, I felt like there were more games with no one above 50% and players being pretty evenly matched in terms of stats, yet no one knowing what to do. At the same time the learning curve between 50-55 is incredibly steep, so a player of 48% might be suddenly massively ahead, once learning how to play.
That would be my guess. SBMM makes buckets of 'similar stats' and builds teams within each bucket (does queue time allow, as usual). Reminds me of what another game mode was supposed to be... rating battles?
This game died after changing the crosshair from the old one to this new stiff crap. I've been playing it for 7 years from the beginning and now I can't even play a battle. Not only me, most of the good and legendary clans died for a similar reason, the game turned into a colorful, chaotic and unfinished arcade game. As long as it's cheap, bots will buy the cases anyway. Let's not mention the problem with loss packages... plus this migration of players from Russia. Returning to the big wot some time ago was a good decision. Let's not regret what happened with the blitz, let's be glad it happened and let it go.
Interesting, I've never heard anyone leave because of the crosshair.. If I'm not mistaken, you can even play with the old one? Btw, the server merge brought very few Russians over, they have their own server. Only Ukrainians and other eastern europesnd. But that only had a very small impact on the game, people adjusted quickly.
@@n9o In this "russian" case I disagree you. After many battles i examined players. It is easy to check if they are transferred (for example with blitzstars). Most of those ones i checked are transferred players and they are in "russians only" clans. I also found and reported many political comments in those clans - WG support removed those immediately - thanks for that, i hope they also fix couple of bugs i have reported after every update over three years now (they admit there bug, and they will fix them in next update - LOL). And what is the problem with those russian players is that most of them (not all, but most) just repeat red army way to fight - they just rush, shoot, die and lose. It is also my opinion that it was a big mistake from WG to transfer accounts from ru server to eu server.
@@tallitonttu4035 you've got to consider that Russian is the first foreign language that all Eastern European / ex Soviet states teach, similar to what English is elsewhere. So yes, they speak Russian, but among them are very few actual Russians. Like 50% of Ukrainians even talk ru as a first language, but many even try to switch to Ukrainian since the war. Yet online Russian is the best way to communicate for any of them. The actual Russians on eu are also not rarely refugees who did not want to fight Ukraine and moved, so surely also the wrong ones to hate on. At the same time there have been Russians living within eu for a long time already, who might still support the other side. And it's true that many told me that ru server was more aggressive, people were complaining about how awful campy eu players are - they were not happy with that either. But it's just a different meta, a popular playstyle that one has to get used to. You see, it's not an easy subject and I would want to avoid any generalization of such a divided group of people.
I dont have ggs or fun sinse new mm. I play so much less and I also dont care anymore. Took them too long to change it. Lost all my progress before new mm. Teams nvr think they just rush shoot and die. Thats it.
Sorry to hear you also suffered so much from it. But honestly speaking, a month of bad games wont destroy yout all time stats any more than a month in your noob times when you just started. And actually i am quite happy with how fast they get rid of SBMM, never has there been any problem being revoked just as quickly (only exception maybe being the sheridan missiles limitless flight duration, i believe they were changed after only 2 weeks)
Soon Old MM is coming back , so hope all will be like before !!! ( btw i was stoped to play Regular matches right away when WG changed MM , just played Rating and Modes ) IGN : ImmortalfighterX Server: EU ID: 568030711
I haven’t played since this change. I truly feel this will drive away the best players because you’re actually penalized for all of the hard work you put in to improve. However, it’s a tiny percentage so overall it could be good for the game idk. I just know it’s not good for me so I’ve decided to avoid the frustration. Honestly I devoted too much time to this game so I’m somewhat relieved. It will be interesting to see how this works out in the long run.
@@n9o I didn’t realize they were switching it back until this video as I haven’t been following. I know most of the better players weren’t happy, but I doubt WG would make a change based on such a small percentage of players, unless they crunched the financials and determined that small percentage spent a disproportionate amount and decided to retain them. The other possibility I see is that the bulk of the player base didn’t like it for some reason, but why would that be? Any idea what drove the change?
@@jaquevius I think they miscalculated and just didnt look at the right stats. While I was also worried that they might just decide for the masses, they will have clearly seen how badly affected better players were and how little they played. There has also been very clear feedback from the playerbase - this video of 20 minutes only reflects a quick breakdowns of everything i wrote to wg employees for example.
@@n9o I see. I’m also very pleasantly surprised they listened to you and others, as it has fallen on deaf ears in the past such as with spare parts/Sheridan missile etc. I think this could have been the nail in the coffin for the game eventually.
Fully agreed. Eve though I’m a 51% and am not too impacted, I hate the idea that getting better means having to sweat all the time when sometimes I want to take it casually and maybe YOLO a bit for fun. I also hates the fact that content from you and others was impacted. Less opportunity to learn because of the team disadvantage. Thanks and keep up the good work! Looking forward to next live stream! Id: Henrikos/500350525
I’m a 53.xx% player and I hated the sbmm. Supposed to make the game better but made it worse. Glad they are going back for now. IGN: Doofenshmirtz4427 Id: 1013456409.
You present some good arguments and excellent points. I too am glad the adventure in SBMM is going away - I hope that for the next try WG will actually look at balancing out the types of tanks for randoms instead of just the players. Nothing says bad MM like seeing the opposition with a bunch of heavily armoured, heavy hitting tanks while your team is given lightly armoured pea shooters. As for ratings - that MM is broken too, but when things get back to 'normal' with the reversion to the old MM it will go back to really broken as opposed to 'OMG this is useless broken' with all the 60, 70 and 80%ers playing ratings at the current moment. It was either Fugit or Bushka who said that the SBMM is what WG should have started the game with rather than what they did - then most of the pro players would average around 55% and the rest of us amateurs would average below 50%. Rex_the_unready/1012559613
Thanks for you opinion! I totally agree that on some maps you have no chance with the wrong lineup, but it seems like balancing that kind of stuff is very hard for WG. As I mentioned battle diversity in the video, it might maybe also not be the best option, since the current mixed format needs you to adjust your playstyle to the respective lineup as well (if you do bother to pay attention to it) - btw, in my last video I also talked about this subject a little more. While I do absolutely see why wg is having issues with the unbalanced old MM and wr farming against noobs that it brings along, I am struggling to see them moving away from it without losing all the players who are so used to improve on their wr ever since the release of blitz.
@@n9o understood, again good points. Sometimes it feels like they have too many competing bits to their MM algorithm that then get in the way of can I say fairness? Not for the individual players mind you, but for the teams as a whole. Yes, the outcome of totally balanced teams would realistically be no one having averages over 50% and most of us would be in the low 40's or even the high 30's. It would be nice if the only thing that made a difference between teams would be their individual skill and initiative. However, I still think that there is some tinkering with RNG as well as the base MM rule sets, cause it sure seems that every time I am on a team getting steamrolled none of our shots go in, they all seem to hit the dirt in front of our guns. Thanks for doing what you do for the community - it is important for many of us - keeps us that much more sane when we have a bad blitz session!
I played this game on Nintendo Switch at first. I had no clue how to play. I just kept grinding all lines together. Then eventually I found fatness and learned how to play this game properly. WR went from 44% to currently 49 something. I quit playing for a long time because of MM. I once flipped the whole game with my tvp and made a record damage of 7399 in a 1 VS 3 situation. Yes it was exciting and fun but no one wanted to be in that situation for most of the game. I played it again like 2 days ago to get that free tank. The MM is like crazy as teammates were all new players. Also not to mention that when the game starts on Switch, at least 30 seconds passed. MaLaGeBi_Ace ID:1041561221
Bro, I believe Ratings is worse in terms of SBMM, but I believe you only say it is the lesser evil cause when we lose, its still Plus points in case you did good, which is in my opinion better as well, if they're planning to bring in back, I hope they do it in terms of winrate per Tier, as I also had teams where they are 50%, but lower 40s on tier 10 which is incredibly frustrating. Wobwob_ /2001298397/ Apac
The only good thing about ratings indeed is that wr and dmg do not matter. I'm just playing my game there and will make points, even with bad teams. That's only little comforting tho, knowing that neither the team play not the result is great. In randoms the damage and winrate could obviously not be achieved anymore. The only thing I could still enjoy there was platooning, but 99% of my plat mates have actually quit randoms entirely.
I agree with you, bruh. I like your POV, and I also experience the same thing. But im done complaining about that, because WG will bring back the old MM system in the next update :> So now I'm going to complain about the penalty system, especially in rating battles. It's kinda stupid to see two Afk players on my team, and then in the next game, they will become my teammates again. :3 I hope WG adds a longer queue time for them. Like 5 minutes or less :> AG_Frost/2034798811 (APAC)
Having played a couple hundred ratings instead of randoms now, I also feel like i might do another video of complaints about ratings :D But I am mainly looking forwards to damage farming again
@@n9o For me, rating battles is the real MM because of how balanced the teams are. It is competitive in a way that we can still hopefully enjoy the match even if i lose. The only downside to this is the points. I need to be the most valuable player on my team to still earn. If I win, I can earn 7-10 rating points, which is the average rating points that I can earn in the diamond league, while if I lose, it's like 15-20 rating points. Which is :3
@@Shizumi-zt7rb I think that ratings and sbmm both only work for players at or close to 50%. On a higher level you run into the same issue that my calculation in the video was showing. On top of that, the rating sadly reflects the skill very little, most people at the same rating as me (6100) have a lot less wr.
I appreciate the video and thoughts! I concur that as someone who averaged as a super unicum, this update has been a huge bust that makes my teams even worse then they were before and makes me have to go full tryhard if I want even a chance at winning. And I do feel that it punishes my teammates because I feel like our team is just at a disadvantage from the start. 1001558864 Pendrix NA
Giveaway Winners are:
rgieerdneolt/527754271
ironman92710/1010209211
OrangeGuy666/555484277
The Battlepasses will be for next month!
Hello gamer..so you stop steaming?😢 For ever??!!
@@giannisgreek8862 mate, I stopped randoms for one update 😂
Facts:
- MM in fun mode is NOT random. It balanced the average WR of both teams. Better players have worse team mates. This has always been the case.
- in random battles, granted, sometimes there were unbalanced teams. But in the long (not that long) run, ecery one was seeing the same games.
- turbo battles are an 'avalanche' effect. When one team loses one player, the remaining players are generally not good enough to recover the imbalance. If the player dying is the good one in SBMM, the same effect is obtained
About the turbo battles: Games were definitely more often one sided before SBMM, but a team quickly falling happened to my team more often in sbmm. As said, enemies were getting to good positions, my teammates yoloing - very often i was down 2 tanks right at the start and could only farm for some damage. That did not happen to enemies anymore.Before sbmm there was also a much higher chance of coming back from such a disadvantage, as you could assume the enemies to be just as good or bad as your teammates.
Fun modes are totally random games, like WG says: "In fun modes, the matchmaker will remain completely random." .. And IMO they are just terrible waste of time to play. There is no fun if my team wins 7-0. In opposite cases when there is AFK in your team and/or enemy has 6 gold tanks and every player over 10k battles and in my own team other players with 2k battles has "standard tank" still in grinding - I just can't hold my team alone.
@@tallitonttu4035they were not. If the forums were still available I would send you there. The WR of both teams were statistically equal. This means that a good player had worse team mates.
Did that change with the introduction of SBMM? Maybe, I did not check.
Are fun modes 'fun'? Everyone is entilted to his opinion. I quite like 'realistic' mode.
Outlier accounts are not only limited to really good players. For example:
- Bad players who sealclubbed for most of their games so their stats LOOK good
- Accounts with a huge variance of winrates which have hundreds of thousands of games on them
- Players who have improved after a long time of being average
- Bought accounts
- etc. etc.
And this is before mentioning that on smaller servers, many times these outliers are truly just that: there's nobody else like them within the entire matchmaking pool. And they absolutely ruin the matchmaking. Imagine that "good" player on your team that SBMM put there isn't actually good because they bought that account or was just sealclubbing or just had an insane number of games in some OP tank. Now the entire match is just screwed, because what the MM labeled as a good player is actually just an average player.
Another issue you didn't mention is tank and tier variance. This is a game focused on diversity of tanks. No two tanks are the same, we have different tank types and tiers fighting each other, and on top of that we have people running different equipment, provisions, playing stock tanks (which can range from average to borderline unplayable), or even a difference in goal (just playing trying to relax vs. tryharding for wins).
SBMM ceases to function when outliers exist. Because the weights of the averages aren't reduced in any way, we end up with what you described. It's like having that one really smart guy in your class "destroy the curve" because his score is so impossibly high compared to the rest of you that the requirements for getting an A increases for everybody. The SBMM somehow expects the difference in stats to be EQUAL to the difference in skill, but that's not how blitz works. One player can't just "make up" for significant deficits in multiple teammates.
And on top of that, a MASSIVE PROBLEM is that the SBMM does not care about tiers, if your tank is stock, what tank type you are playing, etc. If you are an outlier player who is really really good, you will always be pitted against this continuous death roulette of multiple 55-60%, regardless of whether you're top tier, bottom tier, stock grinding a new tank, trying to play something off-meta to try to relax, etc. etc. If you want to win and have a decent time, you have to play tier X in a hardcore meta tank and sweat your balls off every single game for no reason other than SBMM basically forcing you to. And this is before considering that your teammates are also subject to all these random things that they might not even know or care about.
And lastly, while games are more tense, nobody wants it to be tense 100% of the time. Steamrolls are terrible sure but every game being a sweaty race to see who can clear tanks faster is also just not the point of gameplay.
SBMM kills Blitz cause it inherently is a mechanic introduced to remove diversity in a game where every single draw of blitz was originally built around diversity. It goes against the entire point of the game, and it's trash.
__Synx__/1011271503
Thanks for the long answer :) can only agree with what you said, good additions. I've actually had another chapter in my script about how representative Wr is due to different goals, as you also mentioned. I know many people who reached really high stats after being a noob for many thousands of games and suddenly starting to learn and improve. These people (myself included) were at some point still on 60% overall, but a high 70%er with 3.4k avg in 30 days. When being at 40k games, the stats really need a long time to catch up to the level. Overall WR is just as little representative to skill as ratings.
Btw, if you still add your ign and id you will enter the battle pass giveaway as well
I learn a lot from you. Please continue. I am a 64 year old woman and I would like to improve in my game play.
Thank you! I will surely not quit anytime soon, even the SBMM couldn't actually get me to do it, but I had drastically reduced the amount of games and played no more randoms, but ratings instead. There's still so much I want to cover in videos as well so that there would be a lot of new content, even if I didn't stream that actively anymore :) I am currently a lot more motivated to finally bring those ideas to life.
I am on LESTA at the moment. That says what I think about SBMM.
Thx for explaining your experience so clearly.
small little explanation why you cannot use winrate as a single factor. As a famous youtuber once said in one video, the winrate of certain tanks (same effect can be applied to this circumstance but as in players) cannot and will not change that much of the overall winrate. as stated by wargaming, the sbmm does take into account different stats, also battles played. this is a weighted average. in the end, you cannot directly compare these datasets as they are inherently different, explanation following.
in a world, where the average player has less than 50% winrate, said weighted average will always play down into this matchmaking. as i played during this update on my main account, i have encountered games where there were many experienced players (55-65% at 20k games or more) fighting me at 65%/30k with teammates at around 49%/15k games. basically, it puts you into a disadvantage, just like you described. yet, you cannot use this winrate overall, as some 60% players are seal clubbers and cant really help you as they do not have that much experience at different tiers. also, many inexperienced/convenience players are still getting absolutely railed when one good player is in their team, fostering even more despise and despair between them.
this also has an effect on the game balance itself. good players with the intent of actually playing, play even more strong tanks, like the STB or FV215b as they are some of the few options at high tier. you habe increasingly less diversity in tanks, which is sad to see and will effect the tank‘s winrate heavily. Tanks that are really extreme, as the 183 or Jageroo, but even E100s and VK72s are being played more and more, as they require less skill to play, yet have a higher outcome. this also makes the games more stale, as you always have 3 tds on both teams, which does not help the meta at all. people that do try to fight the avalanche effect, will ultimately still lose and get increasingly frustrated, as they cannot compete with whatever happens.
i for myself will write a full breakdown of the effects, as its way too much for a yt comment, based on data from blitzstars and try to relay the findings as well as the outcome this will have for the community.
Thanks a lot for the comment :) Luckily the old MM is coming back very soon.
This video is also only a "short" summary of the pages of feedback that i wrote to wg employees directly. Ive spend about 3-4 hours to break down the arguments and sort them so that it kind of sounds like a cohesive argument in this video, so scripting took about 50% of the work here.
If you are into data and stats, you will probably also really enjoy blitzanalysiz.com/ - I will be interested to see the results of this patch there in a couple of weeks.
Very nice review and explanation.
I honestly have been taking refuge in rating battles lately which are definitely funnier because everyone is more careful about their actions, almost no one is yoloing, everybody want to win and consequently there is more team work. I'm just an average player but I felt the changes in the matchmaking really a lot..
Omg exactly what I've been doing since the update. Only way not to lose your winrate. And the teams are more careful and like you said no yolowing. I will continue playing in ratings until it's fixed.
Great recap and analysis of your experience with the SBMM !
I concur with a lot of your points and did suffer myself, even though I am only a 61%er with 30k battles. Before the update I had 68-70% last 30/60 days, after the update it dropped to 55 ish.. even in PLT.
And honestly I lost the motivation for the game - and for making YT content, cause why bother - like what you said at ca. 10:05, “why should people see us play?”
Some months ago I started what I thought would be a series of videos about “basics”. But making dedicated content for players who want to become better, would be detrimental with the SBMM, since they would only get so good, that they would start having more bad players on their teams, even before the WR would go significantly up, due to the SBMM would take avr. damage, spotting etc. into the MM calculations..
So I really hope we will see a revitalization of the “old” MM, and see some of the good players back in the game, so we once again will be rewarded for our efforts and skill, and not punished.
Thanks for making this Naino - you’re great! 💪🏼
Good video, with the next update I hope to stop taking refuge in game modes since it was very terrible for me in standard battles.
I played this game almost 5 years after that time WG do some stupid decisions like changing autoaim or transfer russsian on EU server and now SBMM. I quit
So many true words, thanks. Since the last MM i already quitted playing WoTB, well, not totally, but smthing like 90% less than earlier. Anyway, i am not playing "seriously" - it is just a game and i have many other more significant activities. But as a 65% wr player i think my 75k battles (plus fun modes ofc) is enough for this game bcs i do not like any game mode anymore.
Situation is pretty much same than in WoT, where after 4 years and 80k battles: "Last battle: 16/04/2017 23:20". I had a little break and tried WoTB 2018 starting with "T1 Cunningham". Like i said earlier I played Blitz "just for fun" - and isn't it obvious what i do if there is no fun left in game...
It sounds like you missed the part of the old MM coming back in next update :) Likely this wednesday or the next one
Thanks for your feedback!
@@n9o Thanks. That is true. Your video was first time I got that information. I can not find from official WG pages anything about that MM coming back.
Anyway, I think I just retire while still in top. I have played WoT/WoTB since 2013. And I was not anymore a young boy at that time. The reason to start WoT was that I was not anymore fast enough to play FPS games like CS, AmericasArmy, DayOfDefeat, and so on. So, I started to play these "slow motion FPS" tank games ... ;-))
a few reasons why mm is better than sbmm
Accessibility: MM allows players of all skill levels to be matched together, which can be more welcoming to newcomers or casual players who may not want consistently challenging matches.
Variety of Experience: MM can lead to a wider range of matchups, including matches where players may face opponents of varying skill levels. This variety can keep gameplay more dynamic and interesting.
Shorter Queue Times: SBMM often requires more precise matchmaking, leading to longer wait times for players to find suitable matches. Conversely, MM can result in quicker queue times since the system isn't as focused on finding perfectly balanced matches.
Less Pressure: For some players, SBMM can create a more competitive atmosphere where every match feels intense. MM may offer a more relaxed environment where players can experiment with different strategies or play styles without feeling the pressure to constantly perform at their best.
Community Building: MM can foster a sense of community as players interact with a wider range of opponents. This can lead to friendships, rivalries, and other social connections within the game.
Skill Improvement: Facing opponents of varying skill levels in MM can allow players to learn and improve. Playing against more skilled opponents can be a valuable learning experience and can help players develop their skills over time.
in short terms sbmm sucks
I alr have the bp so if I win what would I get?
yourdeath145/682312962
Thanks for the input, I am not sure what the compensation will be, will have to ask
Ok thank you
I completely understand your point as a great player, as an average player i am very happy about the changes to mmr. They should have introduced a new measure and display for skill at the same time though, be it gun marks or whatever system. Then people would stop looking at winrate, and another indicator could help define great players.
Hi, thanks for the answer! Make sure to still post your ign and id for the giveaway!
The problem with the old MM.... Blitz started June 26th, 2014, and I started playing Blitz April 2020, which means that when I started my second month of game play, entering tier 5, I was matched with players with almost 6 years experience for their advantage. Fulfilling basic missions was extremely difficult due to being clubbed by veterans on a regular basis. Even being able to obtain the highest hp damage taken from amongst 14 players, but, usually ending up in defeat due to lack of experience, or by being shot by 7 players. Obtaining the highest hp taken was accomplished while still performing team goals, like capping bases, etc. Unlike other players who use their teammates as cannon fodder in order to maximize their farming. Now, in a few days I will reach my 4 year mark, easily able to destroy >50%WR players on a regular basis. In the short time the SBMM was up, my WR increased significantly. Does this mean I am a better player because of my WR? Certainly not. Blitz is a business, first and foremost. Blitz assigns the teams. Blitz has coddled the players who have helped them to their present success. Currently Blitz is modifying the MM because they recognize that the MM is broken. And there are enough new players fed up with the lopsided teams to cause them to modify the old MM. WR doesn't mean you are a skilled player...it means you have been pampered with steamrolling weaker inexperienced players in an old broken MM. Time to prove you really deserve a >50%WR, time to compete with competitive and equally experienced opponents!
Thanks for the input!
Yes, it is kind of imperfect that the best players get to play against the worst, that makes for a very unsatisfying gaming experience for starters. WG is definitely trying to keep more beginners in the game for longer, but they also don't want to lose their existing community.
But as I mentioned in the video, winning less in sbmm has nothing to do with being incapable, but rather enemies being better than own teammates when you have a high WR. For everyone beneath 60% the mm means that you are either in balanced teams or having the advantage, should the enemies have a 70%er - you are unlikely to get the 70%er into your team.
Beyond that, playing against Good or bad players, playing for dmg, wr, platooning or other games modes are each completely different disciplines and require different skills. It's not easy to switch from one to the other flawlessly.
Havent played on my main for quite some time since this mm came out, i have some battles that were platoons meant to be "fun" that ended up beeing pretty unfun. At least reroll mm wasnt affected which entertained me for some time and provided decent amounts of fun. Hopefully the next update comes soon.
You are absolutely right in your presentation about SBMM, but unfortunately I don't think it brings the old EU server back to the level it once was, after WG decided to merge the EU server with the CIS/RUS server. The level has simply become so low that the difference between the new MM and the old one will be minimal anyway..sad but true. However, I will definitely welcome the old MM when it comes back again, as it can only get better..
Sorry, but how do you think that EU+CIS resembles SBMM in any way? You just said that cis players were worse in your opinion, but in Sbmm the opponents are better. Also the merge will not happen in between the introduction of sbmm and its removal, it was already happening many months ago - some people momentarily lost some avg/ wr, but almost every single one got back to their previous level only shortly after. As I've played on a reroll and in standard MM on Na server, I can totally agree with different servers bringing along different playstyles - but the differences iron out within just a few hundred or thousands of games, since people get used to the new meta. After all it has nothing to do with any genetic identity of playing in certain way depending on the location, it is just about what we are used to.
@@n9o
I've been playing for many years, actually since 2014.
I can see that the game changed significantly after WG chose to merge EU with CIS/RUS...no harm done, but the game changed from being ok strategic, everyone could ( or almost everyone) understand the game and what side, heavy and med side was, how to position yourself to help the team, as well as that the communication was top notch in English, so that everyone was involved and etc
Now it is with restricted chat, players who argue in Russian/Ukrainian, many of them cant understand English. My opinion is therefore that wg has failed max, by combining the two servers with each other, and the eu server is more or less destroyed, and not so much fun to play on anymore. There is so many barriers that come into the gane now. Sbmm has only made it even more difficult to be a high-skilled player...but that's from my point of view.
It’s definitely been a struggle with sbmm, with the main thing I’ve noticed is much greater inconsistencies in battles. I’m at 65.39% or so career wr with close to 8.5k games and 2.3k at damage. Before sbmm i felt that most battles usually were usually won or lost because one team made the big mistake first, not because they were inferior to the other time on a skill basis. However after sbmm the battle results showed that my teammates were much worse than the opponents. Players from good clans were always on the other team and not on mine.
I’ve found that playing fewer battles helps you retain your former stats while large amounts is really detrimental to your 30d. It also feels like WG might have slightly tweaked the mm after the outburst because it felt slightly better a few weeks after the change, compared to when it first came out. Maybe that was just me changing my playstyle to win more. Overall it was a terrible idea for them to make such a drastic change without any feedback or testing from actually skilled players instead of their own less-than- capable employees.
Either way, it needs to go and i can’t wait for the day i can update the game and get rid of it for good. Great video, and thanks for doing the giveaway too! BlackBeltBlitzer/1036455333
Totally with you on post points :) I've also had to adjust my playstyle a lot - I've not played many ratings before and tourneys are still an entirely different story. My playstyle is perfecting maximum aggression against mediocre players for best damage. But enemies became kind of unpredictable in that they could aim, but were still not playing the best way either.
Yet I've also had the occasional good session that made me think of sbmm being turned off, but that wasn't the case.
Generally playing only 10-20 games is always best for maximizing stats, that's when the situational awareness is best.
As a 77k battles 52.5% Wr player. I found it OK. Though at times I couldn't believe we hadn't won the game already with the new mm and regularly would lose that type of battle because 2 of the 3 players left would be below par . I think it taught me to try hang on to my hp more(I should have known already but hey ho) .I think my average damage probably went up though not winrate with the new mm. soulinthemachine (eu server).
I think the best thing that WG could do is do two types of modes or mm where people from cis play with cis players and eu with OR do special mm requirements, enter one mm requires to have 45 wr, lv2 mm requires 50 wr, lvl3 55 and so on, maybe that would sort the problems out.
I am pretty sure that 99.9% of players were back to pre-merge stats or above only few months after, if they even dropped at all. That is what I have seen when looking at the development of a bunch of people. Your last proposal actually is (kind of) in place already, or has been even before sbmm, yet isnt being too strict. We basically have 3 queues: one for beginners
Normal mm is coming back with the next update,probably this Wednesday maybe.
SBMM just proves that WRs pre-SBMM are bogus inflated stats. If you were really that skilled, your performance would be reflected with positive results. SBMM is a step in right direction.
Sadly I can not agree with that, I think I made my point about it a few minutes into the video. Did you disagree with that?
@@n9o Yes. Hence, my statement. Pre-SBMM WRs catered towards those who have played since Blitz was launched, loading battles which favored OGs. Granting OGs battles that allowed seal clubbing. Conflating WRs and making players believe they were so skilled. SBMM, not perfect, but better than pre-2024 MM, clearly reveals how so-called good players were struggling against better opponents.
@@SchwarzenVolk I believe it's you who struggle here. The math is so simple and you still dont see it. That being said i dont mean to disrespect you in any way. Let me clarify what i mean. A high winrate player (65+) who averages 3000 damage per game is expected to have twice the Damage Per Minute then a 50% in order to carry the others in this SBMM and that ofc never ever happens because you have what you have and that never changes. You cannot have more damage then your tank possess but this version of a SBMM forces you to have that in order to carry your team. The way a good player gets high damage is by surviving, not hitting every shot. He survives until endgame by knowing where and when to push, how to use/reset camo and bushes and tactics. All those skillbased variables gets thrown out the window when the rest of the team dies in less then 2 minutes since they have NO clue about any of those things. Skill is basically removed as a factor in this way. You are left alone, with no chance and it goes very very fast and there is no way to compensate
@@WatcherEight You are not paying attention. A high win rate player who averages 3000 per game in the old MM, does so against weak opponents. Thus, obtaining higher win rates due to defeating weaker players. Creating a false sense of ability. Ergo, the SBMM being a stumbling block for pampered players used to winning in the old MM against players with markedly inferior experience.
You are sort of right. A player with 70%/3k dmg is only possible if he is facing the average playerbase. Does that mean that he is not better than the average playerbase? Of course he is, by a large margin.
SBMM is meaningful only if there are Leagues.
See that like football. What is the point of mixing 1ere League players with National League players so that National League teams do not lose automatically if they meet a 1ere League team? Would that mean that now 1ere League players are just as average as National League players?
in certain ranges I formed a t10, I was in t9 in failed mode and I only lost the battles because of my mates he all had less than 1000 battles while I had 15000 wtf
Extra comment - tooning. Our clan is the opposite of sweaty, we just play to have fun, and many members have average wr. Before sbmm, tooning would often place us against a sweaty toon, especially if we were playing tier 8-10. I’m 55%, and my toon mate might be 50% or high 40’s, and we would often lose to the sweaty toon. With sbmm, it was a bit of the opposite, if they had a sweaty toon, it would be team balanced out against our 52% combo, and I could focus and beat their toon, because they had less support.
I’m not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing, but average player tooning was as such, more fun with sbmm.
Can totally understand that :) with random mm you can also assume that there are 5 avg players on each team + your platoon or that of the enemies. So the enemies will be stronger due to that most likely. But if you are seeing a strong opponent or platoon against you in sbmm, then you know that the rest of their team will be weaker than your teammates (unless you also have some strong players as well). As a result, it sadly makes sense for avg players to focus good ones in sbmm, while it mostly backfired in random mm.
Very well made video. You got it spot on 👍
Like I said before, SBMM feels like UEFA telling the big clubs they should play with 8 players because they're winning too much. Being punished for knowing how to play shows how much WG understands about their own game imho. Thank god they're removing it next update and hopefully they'll never ever try to implement it again in random battles and try to actually make ratings more about skill instead of just spamming battles.
Looking forward to see you stream random battles again 👌
FuselierX/523612651
Hey ...
Thank you for a very well presented and balanced discussion on the SBMM issue.
Long term player ... this update has been a game changer. As soon as the release was installed it all went to crap. I could almost tell a win or loss in first 10 seconds. Scan the lineups, see how many tanks move at game start, see direction they head, do they have cammo, look at rankings, etc.
The number of afks were staggering, number of tanks dying in first minute of the game was crushing, the feeling of not being able to influence the result was bad, this was not a result of hard work, thorough testing, advanced thinking, that's all BS .. sorry.
Think about it .... they could have released this change incrementally, gradually increasing the balancing.They could monitor the results and determine whether they go ro next level or hold. They didn't ... they just released an abomination on the community with total disregard for the consequences.
Diversity of tanks fell away as players recognised they needed to play their most OP tanks to win games. Games were filled with Chimera Sharks 752s Smashers Annihilators .... like ratings. I had one game where I looked at the red lineup and the bottom four tanks all had ratings between 45 and 50, ours had none ... by the time I defeated the oppoent I was facing our whole team was dead. It was a 6-0 wipeout.
It got to the point I felt I couldn't play a weak tank ... as I would look at the reds and their same teir players would have OP tank .... I was a problem for my team.
Was this WGs plan in reality .... to make players so frustrated that they start buying tanks like the T77 and KV5 for 10k gold to try and be more competitive ?
When I said game changer at the start its the dawning of reality for many players who, on the back of the inept SBMM and the "in game economy" collector tanks fiasco are losing faith in WGs ability to balance player community happiness and profit.
I've just been playing special game modes to help with clan missions. Certainly will cut right back on purchases because WG may well be heading in a direction I don't want to go.
Its wait and see time for me .... time heals all wounds ... but its going to be a long time.
May seem a little hypocritical lol but Id still like to enter .... who dosent like a freebie.
Server : Asia
IGN : Catch_20_2
Player number : 2015245086
Thanks for your input :) I can assure to you that WG has been testing sbmm and thought they achieved their goal of battle duration increasing. They just didn't pay quite enough attention to the drastic impact on high wr players and maybe underestimated the effect, since there are not many top players to deliver data in a short testing period. As they immediately rowed back the changes only a few weeks into sbmm, I believe that they were overlooking the data in the first phase already, but luckily they were willing to admit the mistake and listen to the feedback. I'm sure they will be more careful with such a big change in the future.
I don't need a BP nor gold.
The SBMM was poorly implemented. Also, they should have done like ratings. Must having a 100% researched tank and fully crewed up. Because with the SBMM, if you are a good player and grinding a tank than its more difficult too. Albeit , I do know that good players use fun modes to grind. But still. Anyway, it's gone now.
I don’t play random battles any more, rating sometimes, but now only fun modes…for me, this last option is the only one to really have fun in this game… and i’ve been around for quite some times
Good for you that you can still enjoy some modes :) How come that you lost fun in randoms though?
let's watch
Great Video and I totally agree with you!
Just the Video and Sound is not really synchronize.
Hi, thank you :) But the video and sound seem to be fine, maybe you would just have to refresh the page
I'm a 45% and found the new MM challenging to say the least. Should they drop it all together? No. But it needs to be researched, tested, modified, tested...rinse and repeat before it is released again. Return of the old MM is not the answer, just the lesser of 2 evils!
Thx, N90. Good breakdown. 👍
Thanks for your feedback :) Honestly, their quick change back to the old MM also surprised me a little, would have definitely expected some changes. But at the same time there are many players who arent even considering to give a reworked MM a try and WG will have seen that as well.
As I mentioned in the video, I would really hope for ratings to be more skill based so that they were offering a way of playing competitively on whatever one's level might be.
Dont forget to send your IGN/ ID still to enter the giveaway!
@@n9o NA server _Black_Frost_/1004123281
I would love to have a series of replays from a player like you.
I have observed that my games were off in term of composition as compared to the playerbase stats. I am wondering how it happens for a 45%er.
@@gallabru97 as I tested playing on a 44% account, I felt like there were more games with no one above 50% and players being pretty evenly matched in terms of stats, yet no one knowing what to do. At the same time the learning curve between 50-55 is incredibly steep, so a player of 48% might be suddenly massively ahead, once learning how to play.
That would be my guess. SBMM makes buckets of 'similar stats' and builds teams within each bucket (does queue time allow, as usual).
Reminds me of what another game mode was supposed to be... rating battles?
A player who has played for 9 years beating a player with a month's experience is able to boast about a 70%WR?
Is the old mm back now?
Next update, so probably Wednesday or the next one.
This game died after changing the crosshair from the old one to this new stiff crap. I've been playing it for 7 years from the beginning and now I can't even play a battle. Not only me, most of the good and legendary clans died for a similar reason, the game turned into a colorful, chaotic and unfinished arcade game. As long as it's cheap, bots will buy the cases anyway. Let's not mention the problem with loss packages...
plus this migration of players from Russia.
Returning to the big wot some time ago was a good decision.
Let's not regret what happened with the blitz, let's be glad it happened and let it go.
Interesting, I've never heard anyone leave because of the crosshair.. If I'm not mistaken, you can even play with the old one?
Btw, the server merge brought very few Russians over, they have their own server. Only Ukrainians and other eastern europesnd. But that only had a very small impact on the game, people adjusted quickly.
@@n9o In this "russian" case I disagree you. After many battles i examined players. It is easy to check if they are transferred (for example with blitzstars). Most of those ones i checked are transferred players and they are in "russians only" clans. I also found and reported many political comments in those clans - WG support removed those immediately - thanks for that, i hope they also fix couple of bugs i have reported after every update over three years now (they admit there bug, and they will fix them in next update - LOL). And what is the problem with those russian players is that most of them (not all, but most) just repeat red army way to fight - they just rush, shoot, die and lose. It is also my opinion that it was a big mistake from WG to transfer accounts from ru server to eu server.
@@tallitonttu4035 you've got to consider that Russian is the first foreign language that all Eastern European / ex Soviet states teach, similar to what English is elsewhere. So yes, they speak Russian, but among them are very few actual Russians. Like 50% of Ukrainians even talk ru as a first language, but many even try to switch to Ukrainian since the war. Yet online Russian is the best way to communicate for any of them. The actual Russians on eu are also not rarely refugees who did not want to fight Ukraine and moved, so surely also the wrong ones to hate on. At the same time there have been Russians living within eu for a long time already, who might still support the other side.
And it's true that many told me that ru server was more aggressive, people were complaining about how awful campy eu players are - they were not happy with that either. But it's just a different meta, a popular playstyle that one has to get used to.
You see, it's not an easy subject and I would want to avoid any generalization of such a divided group of people.
I dont have ggs or fun sinse new mm. I play so much less and I also dont care anymore. Took them too long to change it. Lost all my progress before new mm. Teams nvr think they just rush shoot and die. Thats it.
Sorry to hear you also suffered so much from it. But honestly speaking, a month of bad games wont destroy yout all time stats any more than a month in your noob times when you just started. And actually i am quite happy with how fast they get rid of SBMM, never has there been any problem being revoked just as quickly (only exception maybe being the sheridan missiles limitless flight duration, i believe they were changed after only 2 weeks)
Hi
Hello!
Soon Old MM is coming back , so hope all will be like before !!! ( btw i was stoped to play Regular matches right away when WG changed MM , just played Rating and Modes ) IGN : ImmortalfighterX
Server: EU
ID: 568030711
I haven’t played since this change. I truly feel this will drive away the best players because you’re actually penalized for all of the hard work you put in to improve. However, it’s a tiny percentage so overall it could be good for the game idk. I just know it’s not good for me so I’ve decided to avoid the frustration. Honestly I devoted too much time to this game so I’m somewhat relieved. It will be interesting to see how this works out in the long run.
It should only be a few days until we get the old MM back :) Next update should probably come either this or next wednesday.
@@n9o I didn’t realize they were switching it back until this video as I haven’t been following. I know most of the better players weren’t happy, but I doubt WG would make a change based on such a small percentage of players, unless they crunched the financials and determined that small percentage spent a disproportionate amount and decided to retain them. The other possibility I see is that the bulk of the player base didn’t like it for some reason, but why would that be? Any idea what drove the change?
@@jaquevius I think they miscalculated and just didnt look at the right stats. While I was also worried that they might just decide for the masses, they will have clearly seen how badly affected better players were and how little they played. There has also been very clear feedback from the playerbase - this video of 20 minutes only reflects a quick breakdowns of everything i wrote to wg employees for example.
@@n9o I see. I’m also very pleasantly surprised they listened to you and others, as it has fallen on deaf ears in the past such as with spare parts/Sheridan missile etc. I think this could have been the nail in the coffin for the game eventually.
Fully agreed. Eve though I’m a 51% and am not too impacted, I hate the idea that getting better means having to sweat all the time when sometimes I want to take it casually and maybe YOLO a bit for fun. I also hates the fact that content from you and others was impacted. Less opportunity to learn because of the team disadvantage. Thanks and keep up the good work! Looking forward to next live stream!
Id: Henrikos/500350525
It’s old mm 🎉🎉🎉
I’m a 53.xx% player and I hated the sbmm. Supposed to make the game better but made it worse. Glad they are going back for now. IGN: Doofenshmirtz4427 Id: 1013456409.
❤
❤🎉
تستحق الدعم
I hate the new matchmaker
it is just skilled players punishments.. nick : twosec id : 521894676
holy yap
Imo the game is not gonna die at least for next 5 years after that maybe.
Thanks for the giveaway!
ign: YellowFlash_04
id: 566224007
Kaprosuchuskiller
EU
Whay
#28_Oh_4GotToSayDuringLiveStream_TeachingInvolvesNotOnly_Knowledge_ButAlsoTheMoreComplexAbilityToDescribeOnesThoughtsInCognisentLogicallyWays_
You present some good arguments and excellent points. I too am glad the adventure in SBMM is going away - I hope that for the next try WG will actually look at balancing out the types of tanks for randoms instead of just the players. Nothing says bad MM like seeing the opposition with a bunch of heavily armoured, heavy hitting tanks while your team is given lightly armoured pea shooters. As for ratings - that MM is broken too, but when things get back to 'normal' with the reversion to the old MM it will go back to really broken as opposed to 'OMG this is useless broken' with all the 60, 70 and 80%ers playing ratings at the current moment. It was either Fugit or Bushka who said that the SBMM is what WG should have started the game with rather than what they did - then most of the pro players would average around 55% and the rest of us amateurs would average below 50%.
Rex_the_unready/1012559613
Thanks for you opinion! I totally agree that on some maps you have no chance with the wrong lineup, but it seems like balancing that kind of stuff is very hard for WG. As I mentioned battle diversity in the video, it might maybe also not be the best option, since the current mixed format needs you to adjust your playstyle to the respective lineup as well (if you do bother to pay attention to it) - btw, in my last video I also talked about this subject a little more.
While I do absolutely see why wg is having issues with the unbalanced old MM and wr farming against noobs that it brings along, I am struggling to see them moving away from it without losing all the players who are so used to improve on their wr ever since the release of blitz.
@@n9o understood, again good points. Sometimes it feels like they have too many competing bits to their MM algorithm that then get in the way of can I say fairness? Not for the individual players mind you, but for the teams as a whole. Yes, the outcome of totally balanced teams would realistically be no one having averages over 50% and most of us would be in the low 40's or even the high 30's. It would be nice if the only thing that made a difference between teams would be their individual skill and initiative. However, I still think that there is some tinkering with RNG as well as the base MM rule sets, cause it sure seems that every time I am on a team getting steamrolled none of our shots go in, they all seem to hit the dirt in front of our guns.
Thanks for doing what you do for the community - it is important for many of us - keeps us that much more sane when we have a bad blitz session!
#27_EyeLeft_WalkingWarRobots_AfterTitansWereIntroduced🥀
I played this game on Nintendo Switch at first. I had no clue how to play. I just kept grinding all lines together. Then eventually I found fatness and learned how to play this game properly. WR went from 44% to currently 49 something. I quit playing for a long time because of MM. I once flipped the whole game with my tvp and made a record damage of 7399 in a 1 VS 3 situation. Yes it was exciting and fun but no one wanted to be in that situation for most of the game. I played it again like 2 days ago to get that free tank. The MM is like crazy as teammates were all new players. Also not to mention that when the game starts on Switch, at least 30 seconds passed.
MaLaGeBi_Ace ID:1041561221
Bro, I believe Ratings is worse in terms of SBMM, but I believe you only say it is the lesser evil cause when we lose, its still Plus points in case you did good, which is in my opinion better as well, if they're planning to bring in back, I hope they do it in terms of winrate per Tier, as I also had teams where they are 50%, but lower 40s on tier 10 which is incredibly frustrating.
Wobwob_ /2001298397/ Apac
The only good thing about ratings indeed is that wr and dmg do not matter. I'm just playing my game there and will make points, even with bad teams. That's only little comforting tho, knowing that neither the team play not the result is great. In randoms the damage and winrate could obviously not be achieved anymore. The only thing I could still enjoy there was platooning, but 99% of my plat mates have actually quit randoms entirely.
I agree with you, bruh. I like your POV, and I also experience the same thing. But im done complaining about that, because WG will bring back the old MM system in the next update :>
So now I'm going to complain about the penalty system, especially in rating battles. It's kinda stupid to see two Afk players on my team, and then in the next game, they will become my teammates again. :3
I hope WG adds a longer queue time for them. Like 5 minutes or less :>
AG_Frost/2034798811 (APAC)
Having played a couple hundred ratings instead of randoms now, I also feel like i might do another video of complaints about ratings :D
But I am mainly looking forwards to damage farming again
@@n9o For me, rating battles is the real MM because of how balanced the teams are. It is competitive in a way that we can still hopefully enjoy the match even if i lose.
The only downside to this is the points. I need to be the most valuable player on my team to still earn.
If I win, I can earn 7-10 rating points, which is the average rating points that I can earn in the diamond league, while if I lose, it's like 15-20 rating points. Which is :3
@@Shizumi-zt7rb I think that ratings and sbmm both only work for players at or close to 50%. On a higher level you run into the same issue that my calculation in the video was showing. On top of that, the rating sadly reflects the skill very little, most people at the same rating as me (6100) have a lot less wr.
I appreciate the video and thoughts! I concur that as someone who averaged as a super unicum, this update has been a huge bust that makes my teams even worse then they were before and makes me have to go full tryhard if I want even a chance at winning. And I do feel that it punishes my teammates because I feel like our team is just at a disadvantage from the start.
1001558864 Pendrix NA
LeBigTed/520939508
EU
Tbf I don’t know what will be the best : old MM or new one..
As a 70wr+ player I agree 100% I stopped playing because of the new mm like most of better players
333Rambo_/570896579