How Soon is Too Soon? 🤔📝 | Balance Patch Review | Marvel Snap
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- How long should the Dev Team wait to Buff / Nerf cards after their release?! Too soon feelsbad if someone passed on a now buffed card or snapped on a now nerfed card... too long and the balance of the game gets stale... It's TRICKY!
What do you think about these balance changes?!
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - OTA LIST
00:30 - RED HULK
03:05 - USAGENT
04:52 - BUFFS
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#marvelsnap #balancechanges #patchnotes #buffs #nerfs
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The fact Red Hulk was given a buff just before release still seems wild to me. Everyone knew he was gonna be cracked at 6/10. Seems like a bait n switch to me.
Also Mantis would be better as an inverse Star Lord. 2/2 give your opponent -4 power if they played here this turn. Fits the Guardian theme better, plus the character better too with her mind control type ability
1 proc= bigger than death or magneto. 2 procs= bigger than giganto or destroyer. 3 procs= bigger than infinaut. The one thing he has over all these cards is no play restriction, with the exception of magneto whose ability you might want or maybe not or destroyer if you are building for it. He is still ridiculously strong, but with the nerf let's the other cards still have a place.
on the other hand, i was kinda expecting some change when i saw the datamined version RH, he seemed strong but not on the level of other recent releases
even at 11 he was fine, the problem with the card lies not within the card itself but with the comunnity who spends more energy complaining than learning to play the game
on the other hand, your mantis sugestion is really nice, could work as a 1/2 -2 power maybe? would be a great new card
Something’s really gotta give at this point. Patches like this show it’s essentially impossible to make an informed purchase in this game.
That’s what they want
Yea hope they will get EOS this year. Stupid studio just make it honest card when release
@@Michael-ur4ntwhat they want and what will work in the long run are 2 different things.
Any game where you have to buy cards, agents, legends, etc are like this.
No such thing as half way P2W.
@@GreenNutts every game? Then why is it in Hearthstone, a game Ben Brode worked on previously mind you, you can get refunded dust for a card when it gets nerfed? Buffs/nerfs/balancing in general are incredibly important to a game, but it’s starting to be weaponized here.
The Red Hulk change makes sense to me, but I think the US Agent change is a little premature and just meant to give us more FOMO.
Thanos over preforming for 2 years gets a nerf red hulk 3 weeks it's just to get you to spend more
@@thomaskennedy1289Did ypu forget Thanos's three other nerfs over the years? They tried to temper his ass for years. You're fighting ghosts
There's no way SD didn't know Red Hulk wasn't going to be busted on release, so buffing him before and then nerfing him later does come across as calculated bait and switch to make people spend their tokens and keys.
6K tokens…nerf, within 3 weeks…what about a 1K token refund, but keep the card? Something for the players?
Jean Grey needs a series drop
i havent gotten a new card from a collectors reserve in two weeks yet im missing so many cards, alot of cards are too unobtainable
@@DaygoCarti have you completed series 3?
@@spystar18 yea i did
@@DaygoCarti I haven't got any series 4 or 5 card since spotlight caches were added, which as a free to play player is brutal
@@Exrederex That's how it works now, there's good and bad to the new system vs the old and vice versa, as a free to play player, I will say the new system gets new cards into much more players hands faster than the old ever did. I think the random card should be able to be pinned or guarantee it's one you don't already have but overall the spotlight cache system has been an improvement in my humble opinion. Your milage may very.
Another Bait and Switch w/ Red Hulk. They could have release him with +3 instead of +4.
This is why I will never spend a dime on this game. Way too many nerfs after you buy a card.
I am very happy to spend money on this game, because it has given me an enormous amount of entertainment. Very happy to support the development and operation of the game.
I knew it was gonna happen and even ask SD a question on compensation for recently bought/ recently nerfed cards
keep the spirit! I love ur videos
Exactly why I stopped playing
Pues no vuelvas Lucas nos vemos, cierra al salir.
Where my boy Werewolf by night getting buffed
he already good
Seriously, after the nerf to Beast and Zabu, WWbN should revert back to 3-cost.
Thanks for the video and the information. Balancing, buffing, and nerfing are, as you said, tricky things to manage. I lean more towards frequent changes; there have been times in Marvel SNAP, and in several other games, where the meta was dominated by a specific card or archetype for a long time. I would rather the game developers try to shake things up rather than let things become stale.
Still, it's tricky, and I understand the other side of the argument as well. I don't think there's a 'perfect' solution.
I played Pokemon TCG for a long time, and they would let a single card/deck dominate for multiple formats, sometimes for entire seasons. I much prefer this approach.
Capitan America, Punisher, Colossus, Watu, M’baku :
SD : 🤷♂️
Between key refunds from the bug and the buff, USAgent is like the most value card to pull for this month haha
So happy I used my tokens for my card to get nerfed 🔥🔥🔥
As one of the beta ray bull believers I hope this buff to Jane makes ppl cool with him more
Yeah, I think this was the one that let me know how moronic it is to give this company money.
Can’t believe my OP 60% win rate card got nerfed, I looked at his stats and was like this will never be op!! It/ always better than infinaut and giganto!! Arghhh
I have almost 700 hours logged just on the Steam Client. Those hours were almost all enjoyable. Some really enjoyable. Seems entirely reasonable that they should get some money from me for that.
5:30 why did you say this. Now I'm gonna waste my day seeing how c7 plays 😂
Is Red Hulk a new record? For quickest nerf
I just know the title is about red hulk before I even play the video that card needed nerfing.
The issue isn't whether the car needed a nerf or not It's that second dinner knew the card would need a Nerf and released it that way anyway to get people to buy it and then Nerf it. How do people not understand this yet? Second dinner pumps up cards to get you to spend tokens / spotlight keys and then nerfs them. This happens constantly.
As someone who got US agent but not Red Hulk, I personally don't buy cards based on how powerful they are but how much interesting deck building and play lines their ability provides. I always buy cards expecting them to be balanced, whether they are released that way or a change is required (usually a nerf) and if they're not as fun as I expected I can always try something else.
Red hulk had something nuts like a 60% use rate, not sure how anyone isn’t happy with this
I don't know how to help jean grey. She has very beautiful variant, but we can play.
Maybe make a cost 2 3 power? or give a bonus ...
I put a lot of effort into a surfer deck and one ota destroyed it. Haven't played since
had a feeling US Agent was going to get buffed. good thing i used my keys to unlock him
Is there any evidence that second dinner uses sales to determine what they buff?
No, it's just community whining
Everybody knew red hulk was gonna get nerfed. You can't complain about your purchases being devalued when you knew that it would happen.
It's like SD never playtests anything.
I don't really mind OTA nerfs for new cards since both of these still "play" the same as they did when you bought them (especially because the Energy didn't change). That seems more fair to me. I genuinely like the rapid response meta control Marvel Snap has, so as long as they are subtle changes I don't mind that I spent resources to get a card like Red Hulk (I don't think the USAgent is really any better now so don't hate that I skipped him either lol)
I got Hope Summers pinned and i have the tokens to get it. Still on the fence in case she gets nerfed just like Elsa.
Before her i had Miek pinned and they even nerfed him, small nerf but still a nerf.
Oh well, at least Stature finally returned to her original power
Yeah I also have her pinned, but I'm pretty sure I won't buy it, I don't really need her and she'll be nerfed for sure
I’m not really mad about the red hulk change. To be fair I only had to spend one spotlight key but they only nerfed him by 2 power so it’s not like they nerfed him into the ground. He’s still going to be very good.
I’m not mad about Red Hulk. Had to expect the nerf. And shaving 2 base power off him but keeping him at +4 isn’t that bad. He’s still a massive dude, and will still do the thing he’s best at.
Feel the usagent is because the problem with his spotlight.
hey drew! love the videos! I'm trying to be positive and honest to help you out. With that said, i feel like you are negative most of the time. I understand that snap DEFINITELY has its problems, but i just hate to see someone be this frustrated. I love your work, but second dinner at the end of the day has made a great game for us.
i think RH was fine at 11 power base, i dont know what game you guys were playing, but 15/19 power on a single lane last turn just dont cut it nowadays (and if your RH got bigger, congratulations, you were playing either against a bad player, againsto someone having a bricked hand, or against a high evo, three scenarios where you would win more often even without RH)
that said, i think they should give a key back when they change a card within a period of its release, maybe 2 months? and i said change not nerf, because some buffs may break decks like cerebro or something like that
I want a buff to grandmaster.
Don’t spend tokens now. Wait for Tuesday patch
im ok with the nerf to red hulk. now if u draw on the last turn, then he cant be shang chi
Red hulk +4 is still insane
People complaining about the red hulk nerf are coping so hard. We knew for sure he would get nerfed at release and honestly the nerf isnt game breaking or making him unusable by any means. He is still really strong and the reason he is as relevant as his is is because of how flexible the card is. It has been slotted into nearly every deck in the game. I also wanna throw it out there that i also bought the card on release so if anyone tries saying "well l, easy for you to not care about the nerf"
Comparing a nerf like this to the gutting of cards like mobius shortly after his release is unfair
Us Guardians of the Galaxy enjoyers eating good with this recent changes, wish Mantis' ability didn't get changed in one of the earlier patches tho 😢
This a W ota imo, as someone who liked Usagent with Jeam grey, but I still dont think Mantis will be meta still, very niche
"Too Soon" I think depends on the change. This Red Hulk nerf isn't going to be a big change. You get one buff, it's still overstatted. I don't think many people would not have bought him if he was released at 9 power. But I think when they "kill" a card they need to do something.
I think the USAgent buff is more concerning. I think "well then I would have bought it" applies here for many people.
I dont know what feels worse. Getting a card that gets nerfed right away, or not getting a card and it getting buffed to a point its super meta. Like how are you supposed to decide?
The thing is they want you to feel like that so you'll feel you have to buy everything
I like that they buff Jean Grey
Now I’m only waiting for a Ultron and Martyr buff
Why maytr??
Ultron is a solid card. It's performance is quite broken in zoo/patriot.
i got all of these besides red hulk 😂
Perfect title, really disappointed with such a quick nerf, thought they'd stopped doing this. There's no way it needed to happy for at least another month, see how it goes.
Like all the buffs.
it's -2 power, and it's been 2 weeks.
He was very strong he's not dead, he's adjusted to be more fair.
Also The community literally asked for Biweekly Changes,now they want monthly changes even though most decks stay in similar spots for months on end.
You literally can't ask the team for something the community itself isn't consistent on.
I really don't think Red Hulk was that big of a problem.
Yea I never felt like he was as big a problem as everyone says. The mill/junk archetypes are much worse for player experience
USAgent: It's simply cheeky to alter a card when it felt available just two minutes ago. Yes, I listen to content creators' opinions, and if they say it's trash, it does influence mine. Ultimately, it's still my decision whether to get the card. But if I resist the impulse to get it, save my keys for the following week for a supposedly better card, and then they change the card from the previous week, sorry, that's almost litigious to me. Big L to you, SD.
People are crying over -2 power, stop crying the cards still good
I'm using only old cards and still maintaining a high rank. There is no point in purchasing cards in this game.
I think buffs and nerfs are fine, but it is a bit odd how quickly they happened. Definite FOMO being triggered by this.
I think a broader discussion on the economy should be a goal for more content creators. Particularly when it comes to card acquisition. There are definite negatives to their current approach.
This is why people should get cards based on fun and not how good it is. Red Hulk was obviously way too strong. The only people complaining are the ones who want easy wins.
This exactly, one month of a monster of a 6 drop it's enough.
Hard agree
"It's players faults for buying cards that are good, actually. They should spend their money on worse resources so they're less likely to get nerfed" is some amazing mental gymnastics to let Second Dinner off the hook.
@@at0mly no it's not. You clearly want an unhealthy experience and only care about YOUR experience. Who cares how other people feel right? I own the card and wanted it nerfed day one. And honestly it lost 2 power. That's not gonna change much for him. So what are y'all really complaining about? Oh wait I know. Your favorite RUclipsr has to tell you what's good first before you can make a decision. That's what everyone's problem really is. Learn to think for yourself and maybe you won't feel like I'm the one performing mental gymnastics.
I was talking about Red Hulk and building decks around him from the moment he was datamined. Everybody was sleeping on him to some extent. I'm a little bummed because this was one that I totally called and invested in right away, but I get it. I think it will actually help in the long run if less people are using him.
at this point it’s almost on the consumer for not recognising the nerf pattern with new cards. i intentionally didn’t pick up red hulk because i saw the obvious nerf incoming. honestly this nerf is softer than i thought and i almost wish i had him
so you have stopped yourself from having fun for what reason exactly?
What nerf pattern?
You're making things up.
What was the last spotlight/BP card that got nerfed shortly after its debut?
Your best argument is hope, and that didn't happen so...
@@narcoticlilac6588It was Blob. In december. There is no pattern people are just bitching to bitch LOL
It keeps getting so disrespectful man. Grinding for tokens for a card just to get it nerved to oblivion. That's crazy.
People who get a new card that is obviously too busted from day 1 should not be surprised to see it nerf eventually. Rhulk is still a very good card, still the biggest stat 6 cost card, not a big deal to me, still very happy to get him. On the other hand I'm more frustrated to see a card as bad as USAgent on release getting buff this soon since I didn't open for him.
This patch is so meh feeling. I'm glad to see a Red Hulk nerf, but the buffs are just not interesting at all, especially if you don't already own US Agent.
I come from a magic the gsthering backgrkubd. I much prefer the marvel snao appaoracb of not waiting to see if anyghing fixes the problems in the meta game
They wait at least one month before nerfing newer cards. They have buff older cards not getting used and adjusted other cards in the meantime
This is getting stupid now
Nerfing cards people have only just got
If they don't stop nerfing cards within a month of them being released, what the f is the point of releasing them at all???? Fix the f-ing card before ya release it! I'm sick of spending my hard earned keys and tokens on new cards just for this crap to happen.
womp womp
So you prefer an unbalanced game than a slightly less extremely good card just because you have it?
It was not a nerf, it's two points and will still be the best 6 so calm down
wah wah wah keep whining
Yeah, it's the fomo release model PLUS the overpushed cards being nerfed within a few weeks. That's the issue.
For anyone freaking out.. Red Hulk is still the best 6 drop in the game. Thats how strong he was.
He'll still consistently be a 6/17 or 6/21 with no conditions.
YEP I KNEW IT , MASS NERF AGAIN!!!...I'm so glad I craft my play style...I don't need none of these meta cards 😂😂😂😂
Crazy how I buy cards just to have them nerfed
I mean it was obvious it was gonna happen
Red Hulk deserved to be nerfed and I own the card. Come on now be sensible.
You know gd well it was going to be adjusted
It's fine
Red hulk is still busted it’s just 2 power off your 30
@@tsermon Let's say it was obvious - it doesn't change the fact that it was pushed just so people would be forced to buy it to stay competitive for an unknown number of weeks. Still shady.
Just duck if you see Rulk getting big. It was not a problem. One point on US Agent is not going to set the world on fire. No one should cry themselves to sleep over passing on him.
This game is becoming too toxic for my liking. The fomo card acquisition. Spotlight caches that only repeat cards that everyone already has. Mixed with for profit card nerfing and buffing to evoke token spend. Might have to take my talents to another game.
Red hulk shouldn't have been a 6/11 in the first place and I told everyone get him now because he'll be nerfed in a week or two. These buffs are mostly fine and most most be "meta".
Captain America?!?
Second dinner is such a gross company.
Second dinner sucks. Horrible business model. This game won't last much longer if they keep this up.
no u.
What?
seems to be working so far
I’ll check back with you in two years when the game still running
This must be your first digital CCG
The Russian agent is a 2/7!?!?
The whole " We let you know that you need to be sure before you buy a card" kinda goes out the window when it could be nerfed, or even completely changed, within weeks. Every card is now just a massive risk because if people enjoy playing it, it will just get nerfed. SD's greed and stupidity have pretty much ruined the game for me. The bundles, no series drops, brand new cards getting nerfed, etc... 🤮
People need to stop complaining when a broken card is fixed. I bought Red Hulk with tokens because I knew the thing was broken. They waited and collected the data and found he was as broken as blob was on release and actually took care of the problem early. I would rather see something that is a staple in almost every deck be nerfed in order to keep the meta fresh.
Noone on earth is complaining that a broken card got fixed that is literally not the issue.
@rafayetrasti6191 no I get it , they are complaining because they feel ripped off wasting resources. Well if a company repeats in the same behavior over and over again and people are to foolish to walk away then they are addicts and need to get help or they are consenting to being treated like walking wallets.
SD are cowards when’s the last time we had any cool game changing buffs
The progression system in this game needs a fix and asap. Expensive cards, no series drops, devalued gold, no more gold bundles, minimal resources on the collection track, expensive tokens... if you can't see how slowly but surely this game economy has gone downhill idk what to tell you... it's not looking good. We all know SD needs the money but cmon, this is getting out of hand.
why do people hate balance? What’s going on man 😭😭
It's not the balance, it is the resource investment people put into those cards. I spent 6k tokens on Red Hulk to use him for 3 weeks. I should have got US Agent, but I stopped 1 key in. Now I have to wait months while a card I otherwise would have got is played against me. And so on..
@@markmurex6559 do it’s SD’s fault that you made a mistake 😭😭 they do stupid things but this ain’t one of them
@@Forced2Comeback The fact that they buffed him before the release tells you that they wanted people to get it so they can nerf it later. That is the problem.
@@markmurex6559 or? SD made a mistake and now are rectifying it
Calm down guys the red hulk nerf ain’t even that bad
yeah i feel the nerf was needed , and its not like its trash now its still going to be on top. 3 weeks of red hulk in every single deck is good i think
dumb comments are dumb. this is an excellent patch. and rhulk is still an S tier 6 drop. and the idiocy is plain to see, people piss their pants in rage if they miss high and nerf it later, or get this same exact reaction when the opposite happens. if frequent patches and otas make you this upset, go play some other game, this is a fundamental feature in snap along with short matches, simul turns and doubling stakes. maybe stick to hs or some other ccgs that either take months or dont balance their game at all lmao.
And thats why i barely play this game anymore. Oh well
Stop re-creating History, and overreacting people.
This is literally the first month since DECEMBER that a card was nerfed shortly after it was released.
The strongest Cards released in the past 4months has been
Hope,Red Hulk,MockingBird, and Corvus
NONE of them are like red hulk Hope is your biggest MAYBE.
Maybe there should be a clause that if a card gets nerfed within 4 weeks of release, people who bought it should get atleast like 1000 tokens...
I gotta defend SD a little bit. I can agree with the monetization of the game being wack and the lazy lack of content slowly killing the game. However, balancing a game, especially a card game like this, is incredibly difficult. No one does it perfectly and its inevitable that some new cards will over or under perform. Id rather them fix it then leave it broken. If you dont want to buy cards that get nerfed, stop buying cards because they are over performing. Those cards are obviously targets for the nerf hammer. I think the nerf to Red Hulk was great as someone who owns the card, im still using him, i doubt he is a bad card now.
I do think when they buff new cards they should offer them on an upcoming slotlight, so that ppl who skipped them can get a chance to grab them without having to wait 3 months or whatever.
They put the pressure on themselves with a 1 week window for the consumers to make a (expensive) purchase decision. I think your points are extremely valid but the economy overshadows my compassion for the balance team slipping. That said, red hulk is still the best 6-drop haha and I do advocate balance over compensation. I just think that they need to change something with how new cards are acquired soon. The pain points are piling up.
@@Drewberry_Gaming also very good points, Drew! New cards should be available in the caches for a month upon release to allow for balancing changes. That of course would mean a change to the spotlight cache system which would require work, so it may never happen 😂
I still don't think Red Hulk was that big a deal, but I don't mind the nerfs.
Red hulk didnt get nerfed enough. There is absolutely no issue with nerfing a card.
Drew, you're one of the best to do it, but I gotta say man, you're really intently riding this commentary-on-the-system train. Balancing is balancing. They didn't kill the card. They didn't waste anybody's resources. Hell, I didn't grab Red Hulk on his week, and I'm saving up tokens right now to grab him still. I understand making a whole separate video to critique the newer developments and how bad they look, but I don't think it's a justified argument in EVERY single instance.
Just wanted to give my two cents, idk. I'm passionate about this game, been loving it the whole time since I started, as well as the youtube content across multiple people. I just think a decent amount of the negative words that are thrown around about the game are pretty overdone and unnecessary. (And that last part is more about the outcries on social media, less about the videos you make)
Thanks! And understandable but I’m pretty sure I say in the vid that it’s a good change?! I’m an advocate for the change and like I said, balance over compensation. The reason I bring it up is cause I know so many people will be upset and my personal opinion resonates with their frustration. So I see both sides but lean in favor of nerfs or buffs when needed.
I'm with Drew on this. SD should balance a card before release (at least more than they currently do). Anyone with a brain knew Red Hulk was busted before the release, and then it gets nerfed as if it wasn't intentionally a bait and switch to drain your resources. SD is scammy.
@@Drewberry_Gaming I hear ya. I know your primary point was how soon it was. I think we all know Red Hulk was overtuned upon release, and I do think there is indeed something to say about why they released him that way. One thing we can all agree on is that they should probably work towards building an internal playtesting team that is even better at making balancing judgement.
@@markmurex6559 I did end up touching on that in my reply to Drew's reply
So they just gave these cards plus 1 power which changes nothing. Snap is dead. They bottled this OTA hard.
Makes me want to play even less now. Nobody asked for these cards to get plus 1 power. Yeah 1 less cost on mantis, but the the hell plays mantis?? Agent is trash too.
Totally agree with your takes Drew. SD stinks at testing. They release alot of broken cards and stinkers. It feels like we are the play testers. Then nerfing or buffing a card so soon after their spotlights means you wasted or missed out on a card because they dont come back into rotation for a few months. Also there is no guarantee that they will buff cards if they underperform just look at Grandmaster. The card acquisition economy doesnt give SD leeway for this. They need to get it right the first time.
Red hoogland is too strong he needed a nerf
Stop this debate, if a card is overperforming and clearly too strong it must be nerfed, I don't care if me or anyone else picked it up. And I'll say even more, if someone sees that a card is cleary TOO STRONG and picks the card anyways there's no right to complain about it because you should know it's coming.
I personally passed on Red Hulk and even though I had the tokens to afford it for a while I decided to wait to see the OTA nerf because it was so obvious it was happening. And in this case the nerf is not even that bad, if your opponent doesn't play on curve even for one turn you are already okay and you have to add the pressure it puts on the opponent knowing you have Red Hulk in hand.
F*ck this game i buy red hulk and get nerfed??? F*ck this game