This is the Wu/Hao form that Grandmaster Tung Ying Chieh learned from master Li Xing Yuan, before joining Yang Chen Fu. Today it is still Taught by Tung family and we call it Kaihe Tai Chi. Master Ou Yang Feng's form is very similar as he had the same teacher as Grandmaster Tung, Master Li Xiang Yuan, a famous student of master Hao Wei Xian. This is the way Wu style looked earlier and Sun Lu Tang's Tai Chi is straight from Wu/Hao to, very much the same.
Great info! My Yang comes from Chengfu and Yang Jian Hao through Li (Jinglin, Yulin, and Tianji.) Sometimes I practice the large frame Yang more classically, and sometimes more like this. I wish I knew more about Li Xiang Yuan!
I can definitely see those movements that went into Sun, such as the way of doing single whip, follow steps, punch down, etc. (My understanding is the best application for that punch down is to use the shoulder and treat it as a throw:)
Yes I am also amazed at the similarities to the Tung Ying Chieh Fast Form. This is great addition to Tai Chi history to have this video. The cloud hands is nearly exactly the same as Tung's.
Amazing video. Especially when compared with the video of Sun Jianyun posted by DPGDPG. Look at the background. These were filmed in the same courtyard, possibly on the same day. What a treasure!
Further, notice the single whip, the follow step, the xingyi moments embedded within the stepping and the sequence of postures, paticularly the fair lady, and the brush knee. Original WuYuXiang and Hao Style follow the yang style sequence and in posture without the follow step of xingyiquan.
Mate, do you believe that the 'follow up' step is unique to Xingyi? Or that founding masters did not create according to their desires. Around the turn of the last century the forms were nameless, and the masters gathered methods from where ever they could, the only constants were the principles.
There is a lot of Xing yi flavor in old Taiji (Yang, Wu, Wú). It's been lost since Yang Chengfu simplified Yang style, and afterward due to the communist a lot has been lost in chinese martial art generally speaking.
I was once told by Master Peter Wu (Chen & Wu/Hao stylist from China) that the follow up step in Sun style was directly from Wu/Hao and not Xingyi. Sun added; the San Ti Shi (not evident in this form), small variations in foot work and modified a number of movements. The 'Cloud Hands' in this form are definitely unique to Wu/Hao. If this is a Sun form then it was the first Taiji form that he learned and practised. Also, Yongchunquan also uses a follow up step.
neijiatao my observation also. it seems to be an early sun style since he looks at the right hand during single whip. wu hao looks at the left hand on single whip instead
I believe this to be sun style because he looks at right hand on single whip plus the stepping in is more in sun than wu hao. also look at how he starts and ends the form. wu hao looks like a yang crossbred and only steps up prior to push. I love sun style. no knee pressure. great internals .
Wu Hao Single whip isn't done this way looking at right hand. This is why I say it's sun. I practice both. Wu Hao has no deliberate open and close hands. I never said sun came from Wu Hao
This should be called Old or first generation Sun style since it is very very close to wu hao style in looks. Only some one familiar with either would understand my comment on this. Peace
This is Sun Style but not the first generation because at 1.27 he moves into 'ward off, roll back, press, tuck in robes' which Sun Lu T'ang didn't teach when he wrote his detailed book on the Form in 1921. It was originally a brush knee twist step and strum the lute at that point. Sun was often changing his Taiji Form as he liked to practice linking Xingyi and Bagua moves into Hao Taiji together, this integration ultimately became Sun style Taiji and he refined it further... But it appears to be early footage certainly.
This is Sun Style but not the first generation because at 1.27 he moves into 'ward off, roll back, press, tuck in robes' which Sun Lu T'ang didn't teach when he wrote his detailed book on the Form in 1921. It was originally a brush knee twist step and strum the lute at that point. Sun was often changing his Taiji Form as he liked to practice linking Xingyi and Bagua moves into Hao Taiji together, this integration ultimately became Sun style Taiji and he refined it further... But it appears to be early footage certainly.
We all live within our personal realities. Was it possible that 'flyingphoneix' (spelling which speaks for itself)was there when Hao taught Sun, if he was, he would know 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' if not well . . . I first studied Taiji in 1982, I have always studied with Chinese masters, neither they nor I ever viewed Taiji as a 'mystical exercise'. Racism has no place in MAs but some of the biggest preceptors of the 'cosmic' paradigm regarding Taiji have been of Asian origin.
Strange, folk always likes to try to attack ones credibility. This is a tatic used by Westerners. I have trained over a decade with a very famous and most credible teacher who learned the orginal Sun Style from Sun Lutang and his daugher before the art of Taijiquan was bastardized by westerners from America, Europe and Australia. If you studies taijiquan correctly, you would know the characteritics of Sun style, WuYuXiang Taiji and Hao Style taijiquan. Look up the historical developments.
I thought that this was supposed to be about commenting on the videos. Never the less, I think I've got it . . 'Flying' as 'head in the clouds' . . 'Phonei' as in 'phony' and 'x'as in 'anonymous'. Very clever! How long did it take to think that one up. But honestly, let's stop this. If you really a MA brother it may be best to not put others down.
@@happylobsterpatatas The version of Hao style that I learned had no double jump kick, like the Chen or "Kuang-Ping" (a very old Yang style) has, nor does it include the Hsing-I style Half Step of Sun. But this performance illustrates why I chose not to learn the Sun style Tai-Chi; I did not want any cross pollination between these two systems. I had enough problems keeping my old Wu style separate from the more "refined" version of Wu style that I learned from Jane Yao, who also taught me the Hao style. Her Hao style came from Hao Shao-Ru, and the Wu style from Wu Ying-Hua and her husband, Ma Yu-Liang. I considered her systems authentic, and she was the best of my 11 teachers (over a 40 year period.) I studied many systems of Tai-Chi in an effort to find that "Golden Thread" which makes all authentic Tai-Chi systems work.
@wagfinpis It is yang style. Wu hao style isnt a style of taiji per se. It used to be called open/close style and this method is added upon taiji. Many people do both wu hao and yang but you can only do one before the other there is a story behind it and you have to feel it to understand. There would be no requirement to do wu hao style after yang if there was a different in the energy, not the outside look.
***** mo zhi binn wo kyang zai ya hai chien zai zhi san bao goa jian kong fu xüe tai dji ren tai zhai zuo hai chien zai hai zhi chi te erl nah qwan te hai san bao goa jian hai
Was it possible that you do not understand the rationale for spelling flyingphoneix in the manner in which it is spelled or is it possible that you still have no clue. There is a reason. Further if you read the posting correct, taiji has been reduced to mysticism by not the chinese, but by westerns and that is a fact. Research the history and developments of Taijiquan and its expansion into America, Europe and Australia, then you may began to understand. Research and read the literature.
Further,As you quote, "you believe". This is not good enough, you must know with out a shadow of a doubt. This is why taijian has been reduced to nothing more than a mystical exercise done by westerners who have a poor understanding of the system and lack the theorertical and applicable underpinnings to apply and uderstand Taijiquan.
This is the Wu/Hao form that Grandmaster Tung Ying Chieh learned from master Li Xing Yuan, before joining Yang Chen Fu. Today it is still Taught by Tung family and we call it Kaihe Tai Chi. Master Ou Yang Feng's form is very similar as he had the same teacher as Grandmaster Tung, Master Li Xiang Yuan, a famous student of master Hao Wei Xian. This is the way Wu style looked earlier and Sun Lu Tang's Tai Chi is straight from Wu/Hao to, very much the same.
Great info! My Yang comes from Chengfu and Yang Jian Hao through Li (Jinglin, Yulin, and Tianji.) Sometimes I practice the large frame Yang more classically, and sometimes more like this. I wish I knew more about Li Xiang Yuan!
I can definitely see those movements that went into Sun, such as the way of doing single whip, follow steps, punch down, etc. (My understanding is the best application for that punch down is to use the shoulder and treat it as a throw:)
Sun style is a Wu Hao style but it is not original Wu Hao. Learn both and you will understand.
Yes I am also amazed at the similarities to the Tung Ying Chieh Fast Form. This is great addition to Tai Chi history to have this video. The cloud hands is nearly exactly the same as Tung's.
This is the Wu/Hao form that GM Tung Ying Chieh Learned from master Li Xing Yuan, before joining Yang Chen Fu.
Какой выброс, руки, ноги, тело. Какая кропотливая работа. Благодарю!
Amazing video. Especially when compared with the video of Sun Jianyun posted by DPGDPG. Look at the background. These were filmed in the same courtyard, possibly on the same day. What a treasure!
Further, notice the single whip, the follow step, the xingyi moments embedded within the stepping and the sequence of postures, paticularly the fair lady, and the brush knee. Original WuYuXiang and Hao Style follow the yang style sequence and in posture without the follow step of xingyiquan.
Mate, do you believe that the 'follow up' step is unique to Xingyi? Or that founding masters did not create according to their desires. Around the turn of the last century the forms were nameless, and the masters gathered methods from where ever they could, the only constants were the principles.
The open and close hands is a sun style characteristic, however the wu hao foundation is the conerstone of sun style
I had not seen Wu/Hao style until now. I thought Sun style's foot work was related to Xing Yi, but I see now it comes from Wu/Hao Taijiquan.
There is a lot of Xing yi flavor in old Taiji (Yang, Wu, Wú). It's been lost since Yang Chengfu simplified Yang style, and afterward due to the communist a lot has been lost in chinese martial art generally speaking.
I was once told by Master Peter Wu (Chen & Wu/Hao stylist from China) that the follow up step in Sun style was directly from Wu/Hao and not Xingyi. Sun added; the San Ti Shi (not evident in this form), small variations in foot work and modified a number of movements. The 'Cloud Hands' in this form are definitely unique to Wu/Hao. If this is a Sun form then it was the first Taiji form that he learned and practised. Also, Yongchunquan also uses a follow up step.
neijiatao my observation also. it seems to be an early sun style since he looks at the right hand during single whip. wu hao looks at the left hand on single whip instead
5 stars! Hao is said to be the most internal of the family styles.
Amazing video. That was excellent taijiquan. The fajing looked great!
From the sounds of it, and looking at the handwriting on the video which is hard to read, his name would be Ou Yang Fang.
I believe this to be sun style because he looks at right hand on single whip plus the stepping in is more in sun than wu hao. also look at how he starts and ends the form. wu hao looks like a yang crossbred and only steps up prior to push. I love sun style. no knee pressure. great internals .
No, Sun style is based on this. Not the other way around.
Wu Hao Single whip isn't done this way looking at right hand. This is why I say it's sun. I practice both. Wu Hao has no deliberate open and close hands. I never said sun came from Wu Hao
su lu tang borrowed some of this to form sun tai chi. There are elements of hsing yi within this step and the retreating as well
All Taiji styles borrowed some of this
This is the base of Sun style form.
I've read his manual several times and saw his daughter perform it. He was indeed an excellent martial artist and scholar
Good to hear from someone with pedigree. But what do you reckon to this video & what styles of Taiji do you practice?
it really shows too, it looks like a Yang/old Chen style highbred. this video makes me want to practice this set.
This style is the oldest Taiji style properly speaking
@@happylobsterpatatas not
This should be called Old or first generation Sun style since it is very very close to wu hao style in looks. Only some one familiar with either would understand my comment on this. Peace
This is Sun Style but not the first generation because at 1.27 he moves into 'ward off, roll back, press, tuck in robes' which Sun Lu T'ang didn't teach when he wrote his detailed book on the Form in 1921. It was originally a brush knee twist step and strum the lute at that point.
Sun was often changing his Taiji Form as he liked to practice linking Xingyi and Bagua moves into Hao Taiji together, this integration ultimately became Sun style Taiji and he refined it further...
But it appears to be early footage certainly.
Or rather the Sun style should be properly called Wu/Hao ;)
Sun style is based off this. Not the other way around.
Love it.
This is Sun Style but not the first generation because at 1.27 he moves into 'ward off, roll back, press, tuck in robes' which Sun Lu T'ang didn't teach when he wrote his detailed book on the Form in 1921. It was originally a brush knee twist step and strum the lute at that point.
Sun was often changing his Taiji Form as he liked to practice linking Xingyi and Bagua moves into Hao Taiji together, this integration ultimately became Sun style Taiji and he refined it further...
But it appears to be early footage certainly.
Where do you think Sun got it from? (Do your research. Sun is also one of my Sitaigung 师太公 :)
We all live within our personal realities. Was it possible that 'flyingphoneix' (spelling which speaks for itself)was there when Hao taught Sun, if he was, he would know 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' if not well . . . I first studied Taiji in 1982, I have always studied with Chinese masters, neither they nor I ever viewed Taiji as a 'mystical exercise'. Racism has no place in MAs but some of the biggest preceptors of the 'cosmic' paradigm regarding Taiji have been of Asian origin.
that was good practice!
Strange, folk always likes to try to attack ones credibility. This is a tatic used by Westerners. I have trained over a decade with a very famous and most credible teacher who learned the orginal Sun Style from Sun Lutang and his daugher before the art of Taijiquan was bastardized by westerners from America, Europe and Australia. If you studies taijiquan correctly, you would know the characteritics of Sun style, WuYuXiang Taiji and Hao Style taijiquan. Look up the historical developments.
I thought that this was supposed to be about commenting on the videos. Never the less, I think I've got it . . 'Flying' as 'head in the clouds' . . 'Phonei' as in 'phony' and 'x'as in 'anonymous'. Very clever! How long did it take to think that one up. But honestly, let's stop this. If you really a MA brother it may be best to not put others down.
ou yangfang!
Hey, Magellan500, please see message in your 'inbox' under 'General Messages' via your Account, discussing this video and other matters.
This should be called WU/LI taiji. Looks Not from Hao weizhen.
This is not WuHao, its Sun Taijiquan.
Flying Phoenix I agree. he looks at the right hand on single whip
The energy is definitely Sun Style, but this practitioner is quite good. Proper Hao style energy stays largely under the ground.
@@TaiChiGhost Maybe he practice Sun style as well, but it seems to me that this is Wu/Hao style.
@@happylobsterpatatas The version of Hao style that I learned had no double jump kick, like the Chen or "Kuang-Ping" (a very old Yang style) has, nor does it include the Hsing-I style Half Step of Sun. But this performance illustrates why I chose not to learn the Sun style Tai-Chi; I did not want any cross pollination between these two systems. I had enough problems keeping my old Wu style separate from the more "refined" version of Wu style that I learned from Jane Yao, who also taught me the Hao style.
Her Hao style came from Hao Shao-Ru, and the Wu style from Wu Ying-Hua and her husband, Ma Yu-Liang. I considered her systems authentic, and she was the best of my 11 teachers (over a 40 year period.) I studied many systems of Tai-Chi in an effort to find that "Golden Thread" which makes all authentic Tai-Chi systems work.
@wagfinpis It is yang style. Wu hao style isnt a style of taiji per se. It used to be called open/close style and this method is added upon taiji. Many people do both wu hao and yang but you can only do one before the other there is a story behind it and you have to feel it to understand. There would be no requirement to do wu hao style after yang if there was a different in the energy, not the outside look.
shie shie tai schin zai
***** mo zhi binn wo kyang zai ya hai chien zai zhi san bao goa jian kong fu xüe tai dji ren tai zhai zuo hai chien zai hai zhi chi te erl nah qwan te hai san bao goa jian hai
Was it possible that you do not understand the rationale for spelling flyingphoneix in the manner in which it is spelled or is it possible that you still have no clue. There is a reason. Further if you read the posting correct, taiji has been reduced to mysticism by not the chinese, but by westerns and that is a fact. Research the history and developments of Taijiquan and its expansion into America, Europe and Australia, then you may began to understand. Research and read the literature.
Bogus! Look at taijiquan in china nowadays. Complete crap.
Further,As you quote, "you believe". This is not good enough, you must know with out a shadow of a doubt. This is why taijian has been reduced to nothing more than a mystical exercise done by westerners who have a poor understanding of the system and lack the theorertical and applicable underpinnings to apply and uderstand Taijiquan.
Repetitive, unbalanced, jerky, and a mere fraction of the original form. But it fools the Western rubes.