“…Become Better, not perhaps than other men- for it is not with them I had to compete, But certainly better than my Former self”- Julian, Misopogon, on why he adhered to Hellenic philosophy Say what you will about Julian, but if that isn’t the best quote to describe his stint as emperor, I don’t know what is.
01:12:00 The Alemanni would later settle in Strasbourg/Argentorate and the region of Alsace after the fall of the Roman Empire. The Alemannic dialect of Alsacien/Elsaessisch is still spoken by older people alongside French and is closely related to other Alemannic dialects like Swiss German.
The Laffer curve does have declining returns to cuts after a certain point - which we long since past. After all cut tax rates to zero and revenue becomes zero...
He seems to miss a key facet of the empire's success - that they already did have an over-arching religious framework and a means for absorbing local cults. They essentially said "that local god is just an aspect of one of our gods," for example at Bath in England they said the local water god Sulis was an aspect of Minerva and built a temple to Sulis Minerva. Admittedly the worship of certain deities, like the Magna Mater or Mithras, remained outside the main pantheon but one of the brilliant abilities of the early church was the way they managed to take the Roman example further and incorporate these mystery cults - for example borrowing Mithras' "came back from the dead."
Julian becomes imprudent the moment he becomes emperor. The pressing possibilities and paranoia that came with the sudden death of Constantius appear to have caught him off balance and messed up his hitherto more or less impeccable flow. He needed more time to mature into that role, especially as he was going against the grain and, essentially, starting from ground zero. The position seems to have consumed him.
Excellent listening, well done ! Although I'm absolutely horrified at the amount of murdering family members and violent deaths... a bit difficult to digest.
@Robert Alpy That "Pagan filth" is what had created Rome and its empire to begin with, and its on their philosophy and legal structure that we base ours, and that includes the church that rose from Rome's ashes. Monotheism hasn't done much better, witness the countless controversies over doctrine and administration that has split christianity into hundreds of squabbling little sects, each claiming exclusive access to "truth".
I love the Roman army, we've won a battle against a foreign enemy, now let's start a civil war! That's basically what they were suggesting by declaring Julian Augustus after Strasbourg.
I think that Trump is an American Caesar and like Caesar, Trump will be the catalyst that *has* ended the last pretence of our beloved American Republic.
@@tommyodonovan3883 bro what? Kinda off topic lol. If an actual army unit declares eternal loyalty to any one person we can worry but thats just not gonna happen in today's world. If you wanna be paranoid look at Musk and Bezos. Those guys scream the makings of private militaries contracted by global megacorporations. But i just think the world isnt that dramatic anymore. We have the greatest arsenals we've ever had and we'd rather be on youtube or insta. Thats reality.
Often I’ve wondered if any present day Italians could trace their lineage back to the ancient Romans or is that a bridge too far? Im pretty sure Marcus Aurelius was my cousin. 😂
Byzantium was colonized by the Greeks from Megara in 657 BC, and remained primarily Greek-speaking until its conquest by the Ottoman Empire in AD 1453. Also look up the ancient Anatolian Kingdom of Pontus, Greeks from the Black sea. A blend of Greek and Persian influences. Yes, Greek identity can challenge any Ukrainian Ethnic groups and prove Greeks were in the Black sea far before any Slavic ethnic group existed. What is commonly called the kingdom of Pontos flourished for over 200 years in the coastal regions of the Black Sea. At its peak in the early first century BC, it included much of the southern, eastern, and northern littoral, becoming one of the most important Hellenistic dynasties founded before a successor of Alexander the Great. It also posed one of the greatest challenges to Roman imperial expansion in the East. Not until 63 BC, after many violent clashes, was Rome able to subjugate the kingdom and its last charismatic ruler Mithridates VI, who proved to be as formidable a foe to Rome as Hannibal. He has been called the greatest ruler of the Kingdom of Pontus. He cultivated an immunity to poisons by regularly ingesting sub-lethal doses; this practice, now called mithridatism, is named after him. After his death, he became known as Mithridates the Great. And after the full of Rome by the Germanic tribes and mercenaries from the far East of Asia that murdered most of the Romans and destroyed and looted Rome. Some Romans managed to flee to Byzantium and were saved by the Greek Royal Guards of Byzantium. The same Greek Royal Guards of Byzantium who trained the Anglo-Saxons from England, after they fled England from the Normans. The popes are not even Roman, that's why popes don't have last names. Poverty-stricken like one of many barbarians that invaded Europe was Odoacer, the Germanic king of the Torcilingi, and he self-proclaimed himself as the new Roman emperor and he embraced everything Roman and Greek. So the Roman state continued and some of its traditions were maintained, modern historians distinguish Byzantium from ancient Rome insofar as it was centred on Constantinople, oriented towards Greek rather than Latin culture and characterised by Orthodox Christianity. And Greek history records show that the Germanic tribe's were given the Netherlands and not Europe. Germanic peoples are nomadic like the Turks and British. There's an intelligent documentary in English to be made about Byzantium culture, and this isn't it. History is way more clear with a Hellenic classical education, and someone who speaks like a native Greek and not as an outsider/foreigner who learned Greek. Dionysius Pyrrhus requests the exclusive use of Hellene in his Cheiragogy: "Never desire to call yourselves Romans, but Hellenes, for the Romans from ancient Rome enslaved and destroyed Hellas." And George Gemistus Plethon pointed out to Constantine Palaeologus that the people he leads are "Hellenes, as their race and language and education testifies". Ducas Vatatzes, wrote in a letter to Pope Gregory IX about the wisdom that "rains upon the Hellenic nation". He maintained that the transfer of the imperial authority from Rome to Constantinople was national and not geographic, and therefore did not belong to the Latins occupying Constantinople: Constantine's heritage was passed on to the Hellenes, so he argued, and they alone were its inheritors and successors. His son, Theodore II Lascaris, was eager to project the name of the Greeks with true nationalistic zeal. He made it a point that "the Hellenic race looms over all other languages" and that "every kind of philosophy and form of knowledge is a discovery of Hellenes […]. What do you, O Rome, have to display?" No other small country can compare with Greece in terms of impact on human benefit. In the beginning... God created the Earth, and in the light blue waters, put a small ship to travel forever, in order not only to give birth but also to transfer great ideas all over the world ... He called that ship...HELLAS! The Greeks created it, the Germans copy it, and the English exploit it. The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance. Herodotus
One other thing - the whole argument between the church and the old classical religion was never really settled. The Pope often says mass under Michelangelo's ceiling of The Creation. On it there are parallel prophets - from the Hebrew side and the classical Sibylline oracles I have no idea how true any of the Sibylline prophecies may have been or how they said them, and have never seen any Sibylline books. I'm amazed they survived the classical period. Do original whatevers still exist? The Palazzi the cardinals built throughout Rome and the suburbs are often filled with paintings recounting both Classical and Christian tales. The argument, even in the Renaissance and later periods was never quite settled. Somehow, neither side was sufficient until itself to describe the whole of human experience. It isn't just the Hebrews that managed to survive with some sense of their soul intact throughout the ages. Almost every ethnic or cultural group on earth seems to have some aspect of themselves that is eternal. But it seems to help if some tradition, especially written down histories, keep some of the original thinking alive. And even if their traditions and thinking didn't survive in media, their bodies and oral traditions often do.
- Timaeus - Constantine I is my 35th generation great Grandfather. King Alpin is my 36th. Thank you for such a detailed presentation. Where do you take the tours?
@@PackMane206 that's a coincidence ... He's mine as well. (And everybody else currently living today). It's a numbers game ... I have 2 parents, 4 grandparent, ... 2 to the power 35 ancestors in that generation = 34 billion ... Much greater than the total world population at that time so I am related by MANY different routes to everybody in that generation who has a descendant in this . So if you paid money to be told that, they didn't lie but you paid too much to be told the bleeding obviously
With Julian it almost sounds like the classical world could come back. But I just thought that all that civic and architectural magnificence of Rome and Villas like the palatine palaces and Hadrian's Villa at Tivoli are really already becoming derelict. Mabey not the palatine but probably the Villa? There hasn't been an emperor in Rome since when? Hadrian's villa must have been a neglected place with no maintenance and, no doubt, the scavengers were already walking off with the valuable materials. It didn't take the barbarians or even the middle ages to start the destruction process. It must have started about this time. The buildings in Rome's heart were longer lasting, very well built and still relevant but what about the great theaters when Christians no longer attended the classical plays and didn't approve of theatrical productions at all? The Forum is downtown but the outer reaches of the city and anything outside the Aurelian walls must have started to decline. The population must have shrunk considerably once the court was no longer spending money in town. Think Detroit or even Philadelphia in the last few decades. All sorts of vacant lots must have appeared but as piles of broken stones and tons of plaster dust and tiles. The late 19th century archeologist Rudolfo Lanciana observed that a typical roman domus would leave about 1.5 meters of rubble per floor when it collapsed and most of the abandoned residential buildings were several stories high. That means there were many places where the old streets were gradually filing with building rubble and traffic would have had to climb over piles of litter. The archeological sites in his day were sometimes as much as 30 feet below the ground level. The overburden would be moved around in late classical times just to dig out valuable building stones. What puzzles me is how the abandoned buildings that were rapidly stripped of some very large parts - like the monolithic granite and marble columns, maybe 20 to 30 feet high shafts not counting capitols and bases - were able to be moved at all through such streets? So many early Christian churches have columns from older buildings and they weren't that easy to move when the streets were new, clean and level. One thing I recall about the martyriums - or churches built to commemorate martyrs, is they weren't just churches. They were actually social welfare centers and in that sense they may have functioned something like the older temple complexes. But I never read much about what the older temple complexes did with all their income and space except to share meat sacrifices with their faculty, staff and devotees - if you can call them that. But the churches didn't do good barbeque anymore. I like to think, Constantine may be a canonized saint but when he got there he had to crawl across the threshold of the pearly gates and take a seat way at the back of the room. Otherwise God is kind of crooked and likes to butter up the big donors. Heck, all the emperor's money was really some kind of graft or was tax money. I'm used to democracy and these absolutists get on my nerves. But I love the stage setting and so did Washington DC.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. No buttering up of donors.
@@kelvyquayo I certainly hope so. I recommend the writing of Carl Jung for more along the lines you quote. I'm reading his Red Book this summer. It's amazing how he self examined as a matter of the doctor learning to heal himself. It was part of the psychoanalytic method. But I think these superficial attitude you have misses the point of the collapse of an amazing civilization. "Simple faith" cab be too simple and ignore what it can no longer understand. In that regard it can be like a stoke of Alzheimer's. Jesus (or his writers) had a massive anti-intellectual streak and it took centuries for the western world to recover some of it's lost abilities. The simple were not always very kind to the complex. It can be just as important to question as it is to believe.
@@paulrosa6173 On my channel I am presently recording a work by Hilary of Poitiers from 360AD. I have also made audiobooks of many other early Christian writers. Meaning I have personally read hour and hours worth of their writings and have receipts to prove it. The fact that you claim anti-Intellectualism of Christians at these times informs me that you are wholly ignorant of what you speak.
Wow so Julian the “apostate” could have been and would have been one of the best generals of all time in Roman history but he continuously was let down on purpose by his subordinates instead of getting help from the people that were supposed to help him. I truly think the Christian Roman’s had a part in this and that is why you should never trust a Christian, or any other religious person unless you adhere to that faith too.
You think no one should trust a group of people based on some tactical betrayal of a man 1800 years ago? What difference do you think is between a Christian and anyone else? Also.. was it a Christian who caused the BEST GENERAL EVAR to rush into battle with no armor?
Hadrian was trying to do what Julian was doing. Hadrian tried to join all the available mystery cults and also dedicated the Pantheon to "all the Gods" in the rededicated Pantheon. Marguerite Yourncenar's "Memoires of Hadrian" is a good imaginative reference here. She built a portrait of him based on what she could reconstruct of his library, or at least of what he was likely to have read. I think Julian also wanted the classical texts taught by people who actually still believed in them and not by Christians who were taught to despise the stories and thought the old tales were ridiculous. It would be no different, than say, if Maoists taught Christian texts in Chinese schools as a kind of antibody creation in the Chinese mind. Christians were ambivalent too about the aims of the empire. It should be remembered that the empire was surrounded by not very nice tribes that were none too easy to convert to the more civilized values of Jesus. Jesus taught to a rural and urban population with a grounding in the classical world. The tribesmen were not. The Christians were as blind in some ways as the emperors and took the empire as a given. Actually the emperors knew it was not a given.
I swear, the episodes with less than 100k views have the absolute best comments of the series. I wish I could explain why I find shitposts like yours so funny, but alas I can’t. So all I can say is thank you
The idea that God would send his only son down to be killed in order to absolve humanity of our sins is the most immoral concept ever in human history.
According to Catholic theology, Christ is God itself incarnated to the effect of sacrificing Himself in atonement for all humankind. Nothing immoral, quite the contrary.
@@l.elmo.di.scipio you make a interesting point and I can see why you could believe that to be an act of great sacrifice however it's my understanding that christ is part of god so God would just be sacrificing that aspect of itself but being infinite waters that down for me however my Main issue with this is the idea that we don't have personal responsibility for our actions it's quite possible I simply don't have a deep enough understanding of theology and if that's the case I apologise I just find the idea of grace coming from belief rather than one's works or action abhorrent.
@@dyls2702Your view is called “ARIAN”.. versus classic Nicene Christianity.. and IMO , if Arianism is true then indeed Christianity doesn’t make sense…. But I believe Jesus Is Fully the Perfect Son of God.. Who is God From God.. Just like Light From Light.. He is 100% God… so as Jesus says “no one takes my life I give it freely”. (I’m currently making an audiobook on my channel of Hilary of Poitiers “On The Trinity” explaining these things. It was written around this time period. I also do theological livestreams fairly often)
Julian could avoid being a monster because he wasn't a monster. He was a rational, man when so few others really were anymore. He could smell hypocrisy and Vidal makes it so obvious how he could recognize it. Some fundamentalists on TV today could learn a thing or two. If the early church had actually survived to this day there would have been no Protestant reformation, and nearly 170 different versions of Christianity world wide would not exist today. Actually every theological "heresy" is alive and well today except Catharism, which is a bit too strange for even the modern world. But I suppose even that has a few adherents of the bookish and antiquarian sort. Everyone would follow the Roman Catholic Creed and attend Mass on Sundays and observe over a dozen religious holidays and tithing would be a requirement enforced by civil law. I read years ago that in 18th century Naples - there were well over 250 religious holidays where work had to stop, and ironically the Vatican had to stop the local diocese from making as many because it was making it hard for the poor and working classes to make a living. But the Catholic calendar still has over a hundred Saints days and feast days (not sure about the number), most of which aren't really observed anymore. Maybe in Naples. that's one of the reasons why so many boy singers would consider loosing their equipment to make some kind of income by at least being able to sing at mass? I don't really want to sound so sarcastic. There was a charm and comfort to the all if it didn't interfere with real life too much.
@@l.elmo.di.scipio - It's been a few years since I wrote these awkward comments. I would really like to rewrite many of the sentences. I can still understand what they were trying to express but they should have done it so much better. That would have taken so much longer. Every sentence has the audacity or arrogance of an amateur or a know it all. I was raised a RC christian. But I also live in a society where freedom of thought and expression are profoundly essential and protected by law. The argument then as now is - how does one define reality? Maybe virtual reality - CGI etc, is the next great challenge to everyone regardless of religious background? As a skin of the teeth comfort and stability I still love Chardin's "Noosphere". I think Chardin would have been able to cope with the modern world far better than most theologians of the past. But again, that is coming from someone who really doesn't like to read the Bible or theology. I think, for myself anyway, it is a question of trying to adopt a morality that was heavily influenced by the limitations and requirements of times past, especially definitions of sexual morality. .
Not only did Julian fail, his reign caused a strong reaction against pagans in his successors, such as Valentinian and Theodosius, and many of the Bishops. Constantine was relatively tolerant of the old religions, as were his sons, to a degree, but because of Julian, you have emperors like Theodosius proclaiming Christianity as the official and only religion of the Roman empire.
I wish the edict of toleration had stood as national policy, and Rome had allowed all the religions to co exist. But "favor of the God/Gods" was too bound up with the fortunes of the empire. Someone has to be a scapegoat for failure. The pendulum swung against the pagans.
@@histguy101 Lol how is closing temples and forbidding to make sacrifices tolerant? Even if the anti-pagan laws under Constantius weren't really widely enforced, they were still a clear message to the "infidels"
Great lectures, just one feedback. This repeating of the sentence is interesting the first time but then it soon gets old and annoying. you might want to drop it.
the Bible does not contradict itself the only idiots that think that are the people that do not know the context in which certain things are meant I love your podcast but that's ridiculous looking at the Bible with modernized is not going to do anyone any good you have to go back and look at how those people lived back then how they thought how they worshipped what they believed if you don't know all that stuff then you don't have any clue about the Bible and you certainly not qualified to speak on it very very few are and I'm not saying I am I'm just saying
There are, literally, hundereds of contradictions, steming from various attempts to legitimizing ones rule or ones teachings. Open your mind, look it up and accept it.
all it did was help the romans to become even more divided then they already were as "pagans" not only that Christianity praised non violence whitch in a modern way is good but back then thats not what they needed. they needed strong gods to help keep them strong and not afraid of all the unreal ammount of threats that emerged during the crisis - i feel at times when ppl invaded some cities would accept it as the wrath of god and not even fight it like they deserve it or something - i know they also did tie pagan gods with situations like that but at least they could draw strength from other gods or sacrifice or try to apease the god they think they had upset. not cower and just accept defeat. that was the roman strength back then you might beat them 5 times but they wont fucking give up jupiter will njot allow it nor will mars. and it fucking hurts me to know i am one of the few who tries to carry on the true religion of the roman republic and of the early emperors. and not only that but thanks to christianity its hard to figure out how to even practice the true rituals and mysteries of the early roman pagan gods. I don't fully blame Christianity for the fall but it sure did help it . IMO.
@@420judaspriest do you have any examples of Christian Emperors cowering in defeat? As you admitted in your own comment the pagans also believed that disasters came from the displeasure of the higher power so I don't see any real change thier. You might have a point about disunity but there would have still been a high and growing population of Christians in the Roman Empire along with many other cults. Within a few hundred years though the Roman Empire would be almost entirely Christian so you could say that at least religiously the end result was a more Unified Roman Empire. You're right also that many groups of Christianity believe in nonviolence this for you was never fully accepted by the Roman emperors for practical reasons however Christianity did further develop the concept of just War and unjust War as well as what should and shouldn't be morally acceptable in war. This was an important part human progression I'm surprised you view as a negative thing.
I am completely in love with this Julian fellow.
you are not alone
Constantius II died as he lived; unhappily doing his job and being betrayed by his family
Quality.
These podcasts are superb presentations, thank you.
It’s not his work
“…Become Better, not perhaps than other men- for it is not with them I had to compete, But certainly better than my Former self”- Julian, Misopogon, on why he adhered to Hellenic philosophy
Say what you will about Julian, but if that isn’t the best quote to describe his stint as emperor, I don’t know what is.
01:12:00
The Alemanni would later settle in Strasbourg/Argentorate and the region of Alsace after the fall of the Roman Empire. The Alemannic dialect of Alsacien/Elsaessisch is still spoken by older people alongside French and is closely related to other Alemannic dialects like Swiss German.
Alemanni??? Alemanni 4 life
*"The man who brings victory in battle is praised over all others"*
-Abu Ahubuti
"A man who feeds the hungry is to be arrested."
-America.
"The man who stands on a toilet seat gets high on pot"
- Attila The Nun
@@rationalbasis2172cheep medication and affordable health care is evil - America. We pay 5 $ for medication. At the pharmacy
I'm all caught up several times over
Maqsood Dinajihad holy cow my friend I feel the same way
The fact that constantine killed Probus bc of some dumb rumors hurts especially bad when listening to the absolute disaster that followed..
I want to go on a tour too :(
I love these. Make it a book!
When you’re in a gross incompetence contest and your opponents are Barbatio and Basiliscus: 😥
Any chance Mark is going to do the 25th round of HOR tours? I’m ready to go in 2024!
1:34:05 my favorite card
ooooo nooooo i caught up
:)
Thanx for the upload! I can`t open the blog from the pc at work :)
PP
Decrease taxes to increase taxes collected, a novel idea!
Haha, if only it happened today
The Laffer curve does have declining returns to cuts after a certain point - which we long since past. After all cut tax rates to zero and revenue becomes zero...
@@jt7638 No we don't. This is just an answer people believe to actually never try it again. Because it would work.
@@michalsalekcz commie
He seems to miss a key facet of the empire's success - that they already did have an over-arching religious framework and a means for absorbing local cults. They essentially said "that local god is just an aspect of one of our gods," for example at Bath in England they said the local water god Sulis was an aspect of Minerva and built a temple to Sulis Minerva. Admittedly the worship of certain deities, like the Magna Mater or Mithras, remained outside the main pantheon but one of the brilliant abilities of the early church was the way they managed to take the Roman example further and incorporate these mystery cults - for example borrowing Mithras' "came back from the dead."
You have no understanding whatsoever of theological history.
@@stevenromo90 nah he knows
Julian becomes imprudent the moment he becomes emperor. The pressing possibilities and paranoia that came with the sudden death of Constantius appear to have caught him off balance and messed up his hitherto more or less impeccable flow. He needed more time to mature into that role, especially as he was going against the grain and, essentially, starting from ground zero. The position seems to have consumed him.
Nikea is a wholly acceptable alternate spelling which is indicative of correct pronunciation.
Excellent listening, well done ! Although I'm absolutely horrified at the amount of murdering family members and violent deaths... a bit difficult to digest.
Julian the Great
@Robert Alpy I agree with one part of your comment. Lol...
@Robert Alpy That "Pagan filth" is what had created Rome and its empire to begin with, and its on their philosophy and legal structure that we base ours, and that includes the church that rose from Rome's ashes. Monotheism hasn't done much better, witness the countless controversies over doctrine and administration that has split christianity into hundreds of squabbling little sects, each claiming exclusive access to "truth".
I love the Roman army, we've won a battle against a foreign enemy, now let's start a civil war! That's basically what they were suggesting by declaring Julian Augustus after Strasbourg.
I think that Trump is an American Caesar and like Caesar, Trump will be the catalyst that *has* ended the last pretence of our beloved American Republic.
@@tommyodonovan3883 bro what? Kinda off topic lol. If an actual army unit declares eternal loyalty to any one person we can worry but thats just not gonna happen in today's world. If you wanna be paranoid look at Musk and Bezos. Those guys scream the makings of private militaries contracted by global megacorporations. But i just think the world isnt that dramatic anymore. We have the greatest arsenals we've ever had and we'd rather be on youtube or insta. Thats reality.
@@geordiejones5618 our beloved republic died on 9-11.
@@tommyodonovan3883 it died after the war of secession aka the civil war
Julian discovered Laffer Curve before economics was a thing lol
Its anti climatic when u keep revealing and provide conclusion ahead
Often I’ve wondered if any present day Italians could trace their lineage back to the ancient Romans or is that a bridge too far? Im pretty sure Marcus Aurelius was my cousin. 😂
The more I listen to this, and it’s cliche and anyone can recognize it, Rome’s greatest enemy was Rome.
Byzantium was colonized by the Greeks from Megara in 657 BC, and remained primarily Greek-speaking until its conquest by the Ottoman Empire in AD 1453. Also look up the ancient Anatolian Kingdom of Pontus, Greeks from the Black sea. A blend of Greek and Persian influences. Yes, Greek identity can challenge any Ukrainian Ethnic groups and prove Greeks were in the Black sea far before any Slavic ethnic group existed. What is commonly called the kingdom of Pontos flourished for over 200 years in the coastal regions of the Black Sea. At its peak in the early first century BC, it included much of the southern, eastern, and northern littoral, becoming one of the most important Hellenistic dynasties founded before a successor of Alexander the Great.
It also posed one of the greatest challenges to Roman imperial expansion in the East. Not until 63 BC, after many violent clashes, was Rome able to subjugate the kingdom and its last charismatic ruler Mithridates VI, who proved to be as formidable a foe to Rome as Hannibal. He has been called the greatest ruler of the Kingdom of Pontus. He cultivated an immunity to poisons by regularly ingesting sub-lethal doses; this practice, now called mithridatism, is named after him. After his death, he became known as Mithridates the Great.
And after the full of Rome by the Germanic tribes and mercenaries from the far East of Asia that murdered most of the Romans and destroyed and looted Rome. Some Romans managed to flee to Byzantium and were saved by the Greek Royal Guards of Byzantium. The same Greek Royal Guards of Byzantium who trained the Anglo-Saxons from England, after they fled England from the Normans.
The popes are not even Roman, that's why popes don't have last names. Poverty-stricken like one of many barbarians that invaded Europe was Odoacer, the Germanic king of the Torcilingi, and he self-proclaimed himself as the new Roman emperor and he embraced everything Roman and Greek. So the Roman state continued and some of its traditions were maintained, modern historians distinguish Byzantium from ancient Rome insofar as it was centred on Constantinople, oriented towards Greek rather than Latin culture and characterised by Orthodox Christianity. And Greek history records show that the Germanic tribe's were given the Netherlands and not Europe. Germanic peoples are nomadic like the Turks and British.
There's an intelligent documentary in English to be made about Byzantium culture, and this isn't it. History is way more clear with a Hellenic classical education, and someone who speaks like a native Greek and not as an outsider/foreigner who learned Greek. Dionysius Pyrrhus requests the exclusive use of Hellene in his Cheiragogy: "Never desire to call yourselves Romans, but Hellenes, for the Romans from ancient Rome enslaved and destroyed Hellas." And George Gemistus Plethon pointed out to Constantine Palaeologus that the people he leads are "Hellenes, as their race and language and education testifies". Ducas Vatatzes, wrote in a letter to Pope Gregory IX about the wisdom that "rains upon the Hellenic nation". He maintained that the transfer of the imperial authority from Rome to Constantinople was national and not geographic, and therefore did not belong to the Latins occupying Constantinople: Constantine's heritage was passed on to the Hellenes, so he argued, and they alone were its inheritors and successors. His son, Theodore II Lascaris, was eager to project the name of the Greeks with true nationalistic zeal. He made it a point that "the Hellenic race looms over all other languages" and that "every kind of philosophy and form of knowledge is a discovery of Hellenes […]. What do you, O Rome, have to display?"
No other small country can compare with Greece in terms of impact on human benefit.
In the beginning... God created the Earth, and in the light blue waters, put a small ship to travel forever, in order not only to give birth but also to transfer great ideas all over the world ...
He called that ship...HELLAS!
The Greeks created it, the Germans copy it, and the English exploit it.
The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance. Herodotus
Man I feel bad for Julian during his German campaigns. It's a prime example why team work is extremely important in war.
One other thing - the whole argument between the church and the old classical religion was never really settled. The Pope often says mass under Michelangelo's ceiling of The Creation. On it there are parallel prophets - from the Hebrew side and the classical Sibylline oracles I have no idea how true any of the Sibylline prophecies may have been or how they said them, and have never seen any Sibylline books. I'm amazed they survived the classical period. Do original whatevers still exist? The Palazzi the cardinals built throughout Rome and the suburbs are often filled with paintings recounting both Classical and Christian tales. The argument, even in the Renaissance and later periods was never quite settled. Somehow, neither side was sufficient until itself to describe the whole of human experience.
It isn't just the Hebrews that managed to survive with some sense of their soul intact throughout the ages. Almost every ethnic or cultural group on earth seems to have some aspect of themselves that is eternal. But it seems to help if some tradition, especially written down histories, keep some of the original thinking alive. And even if their traditions and thinking didn't survive in media, their bodies and oral traditions often do.
I would have died in Julians place. Let Him be at peace in the Ellisean Fields.
Historia Civilis is a interesting channel as well. Check it out.
Yes I like that channel. I also like History's Empire and Thersites the Historian. Good channels.
- Timaeus - Constantine I is my 35th generation great Grandfather. King Alpin is my 36th. Thank you for such a detailed presentation. Where do you take the tours?
@@PackMane206 LMFAO....YA ok..
@@PackMane206 that's a coincidence ... He's mine as well. (And everybody else currently living today). It's a numbers game ... I have 2 parents, 4 grandparent, ... 2 to the power 35 ancestors in that generation = 34 billion ... Much greater than the total world population at that time so I am related by MANY different routes to everybody in that generation who has a descendant in this . So if you paid money to be told that, they didn't lie but you paid too much to be told the bleeding obviously
@@420judaspriest see my comment ... Its true!!!
With Julian it almost sounds like the classical world could come back. But I just thought that all that civic and architectural magnificence of Rome and Villas like the palatine palaces and Hadrian's Villa at Tivoli are really already becoming derelict. Mabey not the palatine but probably the Villa? There hasn't been an emperor in Rome since when? Hadrian's villa must have been a neglected place with no maintenance and, no doubt, the scavengers were already walking off with the valuable materials. It didn't take the barbarians or even the middle ages to start the destruction process. It must have started about this time. The buildings in Rome's heart were longer lasting, very well built and still relevant but what about the great theaters when Christians no longer attended the classical plays and didn't approve of theatrical productions at all? The Forum is downtown but the outer reaches of the city and anything outside the Aurelian walls must have started to decline. The population must have shrunk considerably once the court was no longer spending money in town. Think Detroit or even Philadelphia in the last few decades. All sorts of vacant lots must have appeared but as piles of broken stones and tons of plaster dust and tiles.
The late 19th century archeologist Rudolfo Lanciana observed that a typical roman domus would leave about 1.5 meters of rubble per floor when it collapsed and most of the abandoned residential buildings were several stories high. That means there were many places where the old streets were gradually filing with building rubble and traffic would have had to climb over piles of litter. The archeological sites in his day were sometimes as much as 30 feet below the ground level. The overburden would be moved around in late classical times just to dig out valuable building stones.
What puzzles me is how the abandoned buildings that were rapidly stripped of some very large parts - like the monolithic granite and marble columns, maybe 20 to 30 feet high shafts not counting capitols and bases - were able to be moved at all through such streets? So many early Christian churches have columns from older buildings and they weren't that easy to move when the streets were new, clean and level.
One thing I recall about the martyriums - or churches built to commemorate martyrs, is they weren't just churches. They were actually social welfare centers and in that sense they may have functioned something like the older temple complexes. But I never read much about what the older temple complexes did with all their income and space except to share meat sacrifices with their faculty, staff and devotees - if you can call them that. But the churches didn't do good barbeque anymore.
I like to think, Constantine may be a canonized saint but when he got there he had to crawl across the threshold of the pearly gates and take a seat way at the back of the room. Otherwise God is kind of crooked and likes to butter up the big donors. Heck, all the emperor's money was really some kind of graft or was tax money.
I'm used to democracy and these absolutists get on my nerves. But I love the stage setting and so did Washington DC.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
No buttering up of donors.
@@kelvyquayo I certainly hope so. I recommend the writing of Carl Jung for more along the lines you quote. I'm reading his Red Book this summer. It's amazing how he self examined as a matter of the doctor learning to heal himself. It was part of the psychoanalytic method.
But I think these superficial attitude you have misses the point of the collapse of an amazing civilization. "Simple faith" cab be too simple and ignore what it can no longer understand. In that regard it can be like a stoke of Alzheimer's. Jesus (or his writers) had a massive anti-intellectual streak and it took centuries for the western world to recover some of it's lost abilities. The simple were not always very kind to the complex. It can be just as important to question as it is to believe.
@@paulrosa6173 On my channel I am presently recording a work by Hilary of Poitiers from 360AD. I have also made audiobooks of many other early Christian writers. Meaning I have personally read hour and hours worth of their writings and have receipts to prove it. The fact that you claim anti-Intellectualism of Christians at these times informs me that you are wholly ignorant of what you speak.
@@kelvyquayo Do you think the creation story is the literal truth?
i wonder, if there's any "saint" of more dubious quality than constantine, who killed his own wife and children.
Wow so Julian the “apostate” could have been and would have been one of the best generals of all time in Roman history but he continuously was let down on purpose by his subordinates instead of getting help from the people that were supposed to help him.
I truly think the Christian Roman’s had a part in this and that is why you should never trust a Christian, or any other religious person unless you adhere to that faith too.
Julian the Sane.
You think no one should trust a group of people based on some tactical betrayal of a man 1800 years ago?
What difference do you think is between a Christian and anyone else?
Also.. was it a Christian who caused the BEST GENERAL EVAR to rush into battle with no armor?
Hadrian was trying to do what Julian was doing. Hadrian tried to join all the available mystery cults and also dedicated the Pantheon to "all the Gods" in the rededicated Pantheon. Marguerite Yourncenar's "Memoires of Hadrian" is a good imaginative reference here. She built a portrait of him based on what she could reconstruct of his library, or at least of what he was likely to have read.
I think Julian also wanted the classical texts taught by people who actually still believed in them and not by Christians who were taught to despise the stories and thought the old tales were ridiculous. It would be no different, than say, if Maoists taught Christian texts in Chinese schools as a kind of antibody creation in the Chinese mind.
Christians were ambivalent too about the aims of the empire. It should be remembered that the empire was surrounded by not very nice tribes that were none too easy to convert to the more civilized values of Jesus. Jesus taught to a rural and urban population with a grounding in the classical world. The tribesmen were not. The Christians were as blind in some ways as the emperors and took the empire as a given. Actually the emperors knew it was not a given.
Its Milan, not Milone
Holy Orthodoxy prevailed ❤
Can'tstandya
I swear, the episodes with less than 100k views have the absolute best comments of the series. I wish I could explain why I find shitposts like yours so funny, but alas I can’t. So all I can say is thank you
The idea that God would send his only son down to be killed in order to absolve humanity of our sins is the most immoral concept ever in human history.
According to Catholic theology, Christ is God itself incarnated to the effect of sacrificing Himself in atonement for all humankind. Nothing immoral, quite the contrary.
@@l.elmo.di.scipio you make a interesting point and I can see why you could believe that to be an act of great sacrifice however it's my understanding that christ is part of god so God would just be sacrificing that aspect of itself but being infinite waters that down for me however my Main issue with this is the idea that we don't have personal responsibility for our actions it's quite possible I simply don't have a deep enough understanding of theology and if that's the case I apologise I just find the idea of grace coming from belief rather than one's works or action abhorrent.
@@dyls2702Your view is called “ARIAN”.. versus classic Nicene Christianity.. and IMO , if Arianism is true then indeed Christianity doesn’t make sense…. But I believe Jesus Is Fully the Perfect Son of God.. Who is God From God.. Just like Light From Light.. He is 100% God… so as Jesus says “no one takes my life I give it freely”.
(I’m currently making an audiobook on my channel of Hilary of Poitiers “On The Trinity” explaining these things.
It was written around this time period.
I also do theological livestreams fairly often)
Julian could avoid being a monster because he wasn't a monster. He was a rational, man when so few others really were anymore. He could smell hypocrisy and Vidal makes it so obvious how he could recognize it. Some fundamentalists on TV today could learn a thing or two.
If the early church had actually survived to this day there would have been no Protestant reformation, and nearly 170 different versions of Christianity world wide would not exist today. Actually every theological "heresy" is alive and well today except Catharism, which is a bit too strange for even the modern world. But I suppose even that has a few adherents of the bookish and antiquarian sort. Everyone would follow the Roman Catholic Creed and attend Mass on Sundays and observe over a dozen religious holidays and tithing would be a requirement enforced by civil law.
I read years ago that in 18th century Naples - there were well over 250 religious holidays where work had to stop, and ironically the Vatican had to stop the local diocese from making as many because it was making it hard for the poor and working classes to make a living. But the Catholic calendar still has over a hundred Saints days and feast days (not sure about the number), most of which aren't really observed anymore. Maybe in Naples. that's one of the reasons why so many boy singers would consider loosing their equipment to make some kind of income by at least being able to sing at mass? I don't really want to sound so sarcastic. There was a charm and comfort to the all if it didn't interfere with real life too much.
Yes, Catholicism evolved and adapted to the living conditions of every era. For sure it's an interesting time to be a Catholic.
@@l.elmo.di.scipio - It's been a few years since I wrote these awkward comments. I would really like to rewrite many of the sentences. I can still understand what they were trying to express but they should have done it so much better. That would have taken so much longer. Every sentence has the audacity or arrogance of an amateur or a know it all.
I was raised a RC christian. But I also live in a society where freedom of thought and expression are profoundly essential and protected by law.
The argument then as now is - how does one define reality?
Maybe virtual reality - CGI etc, is the next great challenge to everyone regardless of religious background? As a skin of the teeth comfort and stability I still love Chardin's "Noosphere". I think Chardin would have been able to cope with the modern world far better than most theologians of the past. But again, that is coming from someone who really doesn't like to read the Bible or theology. I think, for myself anyway, it is a question of trying to adopt a morality that was heavily influenced by the limitations and requirements of times past, especially definitions of sexual morality. .
I used to dislike Julien…used to
If I ever have a kid I’m naming him/her Julian/Julia after Julian. Thank you for fighting the spread of Christianity my dude
@@RemoveChink 🤣🤣🤣👍
Not only did Julian fail, his reign caused a strong reaction against pagans in his successors, such as Valentinian and Theodosius, and many of the Bishops.
Constantine was relatively tolerant of the old religions, as were his sons, to a degree, but because of Julian, you have emperors like Theodosius proclaiming Christianity as the official and only religion of the Roman empire.
He was still a universalist monotheist. Lmao.
I wish the edict of toleration had stood as national policy, and Rome had allowed all the religions to co exist. But "favor of the God/Gods" was too bound up with the fortunes of the empire. Someone has to be a scapegoat for failure. The pendulum swung against the pagans.
@@histguy101
Lol how is closing temples and forbidding to make sacrifices tolerant? Even if the anti-pagan laws under Constantius weren't really widely enforced, they were still a clear message to the "infidels"
1:51:00
Great lectures, just one feedback.
This repeating of the sentence is interesting the first time but then it soon gets old and annoying. you might want to drop it.
It's a compilation of Mike's videos. The point was to cut out the damn ads and to not have to access each 20 minute part separately.
- Timaeus - thanks a lot bro, these are sUpA D0Pe.
youtube premium for the win.
the Bible does not contradict itself the only idiots that think that are the people that do not know the context in which certain things are meant I love your podcast but that's ridiculous looking at the Bible with modernized is not going to do anyone any good you have to go back and look at how those people lived back then how they thought how they worshipped what they believed if you don't know all that stuff then you don't have any clue about the Bible and you certainly not qualified to speak on it very very few are and I'm not saying I am I'm just saying
There are, literally, hundereds of contradictions, steming from various attempts to legitimizing ones rule or ones teachings. Open your mind, look it up and accept it.
@@Kijnn name one
fuck the bible. I hate chrstianity - and I hate Constantine.
all it did was help the romans to become even more divided then they already were as "pagans" not only that Christianity praised non violence whitch in a modern way is good but back then thats not what they needed. they needed strong gods to help keep them strong and not afraid of all the unreal ammount of threats that emerged during the crisis - i feel at times when ppl invaded some cities would accept it as the wrath of god and not even fight it like they deserve it or something - i know they also did tie pagan gods with situations like that but at least they could draw strength from other gods or sacrifice or try to apease the god they think they had upset. not cower and just accept defeat. that was the roman strength back then you might beat them 5 times but they wont fucking give up jupiter will njot allow it nor will mars. and it fucking hurts me to know i am one of the few who tries to carry on the true religion of the roman republic and of the early emperors. and not only that but thanks to christianity its hard to figure out how to even practice the true rituals and mysteries of the early roman pagan gods. I don't fully blame Christianity for the fall but it sure did help it . IMO.
@@420judaspriest do you have any examples of Christian Emperors cowering in defeat? As you admitted in your own comment the pagans also believed that disasters came from the displeasure of the higher power so I don't see any real change thier. You might have a point about disunity but there would have still been a high and growing population of Christians in the Roman Empire along with many other cults. Within a few hundred years though the Roman Empire would be almost entirely Christian so you could say that at least religiously the end result was a more Unified Roman Empire. You're right also that many groups of Christianity believe in nonviolence this for you was never fully accepted by the Roman emperors for practical reasons however Christianity did further develop the concept of just War and unjust War as well as what should and shouldn't be morally acceptable in war. This was an important part human progression I'm surprised you view as a negative thing.
Julian was definitely a Democrat.
Good grief, dude. You look ridiculous