00:00:00 Intro 00:26:30 kon's take: these are the best format changes in LCS history 52:40 Kisiel's take: the gauntlet is the best thing the lcs is bringing back 01:04:46 Jonathon's take: there's a bunch of factors keeping sponsors away from CLoL 01:25:20 Marcelo's take: Silvxs has proven that content inspires old fans and new fans to the LCS 01:43:50 groggy is stoked for the Twitch extension 01:56:50 ehero's take: Sheiden has been tearing up solo queue 02:05:50 Outro
By the way Travis, you're incorrect about 8 vs 10 teams being only 20% fewer games in a Round Robin setting- it's actually closer to ~38%. 10 Choose 2 = 45 8 Choose 2 = 28 So a double Round Robin with 8 teams is absolutely doable (56 BO3s) with only 3 broadcast days. Schedule 2 BO3s per day, 6 per week x 9 weeks = 54, and you can add the remaining two matches somewhere as a superweek. 9 weeks is no issue if you start the split a little early as Kangas suggested. Yeah, teams having to deal with having either 1 or 2 matches per week is a little awkward, but I think it's absolutely worth playing many more games and dodging the issue you mentioned of only seeing matchups once the whole split.
Dont bother. He doesnt want to understand. He needs to keep grasping at straws to support his point. He was against double elim - look how much better msi and recent international tournaments have been with double elim He was for franchising, saying it would stablise the league - just lead to hyper inflation of salaries and vc money which actually destabilised the league; now bottom feeder teams just sit on their ass and coast, reducing rookies and new storylines entering the league He was against bo3s - "oh, a 2 month wait" - but ignores that nearly 1 month of that wait is no games being played. There wouldnt be a 2 month delay between matchups if riot didnt have a 3 week break in the season - that is an issue with schedule and not the format He argues either in bad faith or complete niaveity.
@@badvertise Only plausible if you're not aware of basic mathematical principles, come on. Besides, Travis isn't just wrong, he's very loud about how wrong he is.
Early into the episode, they mentioned a dota 2 feature of spectating pro matches. I might be remembering this wrong, it has been 13-15 years, but, when Riot first introduced the real spectate feature, I believe they used to list games on their client of high profile/highly “ranked” players for a short while. So, if I remember right, they were capable of that feature a long time ago but chose to remove it, I believe, due to the loss of revenue/viewer counts for streamers/broadcasting. Now a days, it would also be problematic due to sheer amount of people trying to DDOS and such so they can’t run the tournament online like that anymore. I totally forgot about this, but when they mentioned it, it hit my brain.
This was a really great episode and I am thankful to have got on and give a positive take about the format changes! Looking forward to Clol live this weekend! And to add the "negative Kon" take here.... Finals dates are a huge 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 and no one is talking about it enough
In an ideal world where LCS had the resources, double round robin bo3 would be best. Shorten the time between splits by 2-3 weeks and do the 3 days a week with an extra day that has 1 or 2 highlight matches for the week. But. Since there ARE resource issues. Bo3 single round robin is preferable to bo1 double round robin imo. Both have issues. Neither option gets everything right. But bo3 is just so much more enjoyable. PLUS there is a huuuuge difference in playstyle and strategy between the 2 and i think that playing the style used for international tourneys is better.
2018 C9 roster was, Licorice, Svenskaren, Blaber, Jensen, Goldenglue, Sneaky, and Zeyzal. I remember that team because of them making Semi-Finals after switching between Sven, Goldenglue and Blaber Jensen for mid-jungle. Loved that C9 team. Also Thank god they touched on older players shittalking current stars.
YEAH BABY TIER 2 JUST GOT ME WATCHING EVERY GAME CANT WAIT so glad they can do something for league of legends if i was rich and popular id try that as well GL hope it works im a added viewer to it now
Twitch extension is my 2nd favorite update for summer for exactly the reason Khangis said. Its something that will keep me on the screen, I've got a short attention span lol. Its good for the downtime in games between objectives, or checking someones ult is on cooldown before a fight, etc. Things i'm curious about, but are harder to see if casters dont tell us. Plus, people can stop asking what Senna stacks are at XD
I think our version of Fearless last split did lead to a lot of handshakes. We for sure benefitted from the novelty of having a new format last split on live patch, and I think the fact we're taking it to a further extreme keeps the novelty. I learned a lot about how fearless changed draft there is a meta that developed last split with handshakes and I'm sure we'll find a new one that develops in this format. Looking forward to seeing how that affects how people view the league and the entertainment side of the product.
Its an org of big streamers that banded together to make a brand. They are big enough they have sub-companies now. They build computers under the name Starforge, which took over most of the Artesian team after that collapse. Youve probably heard of at least a couple of the streamers although probably not all if youre not big in the stream scene. Asmongold is the only one i recognize personally
I think teams playing a bo3 and then not playing against each other again for the next 2 months is fine. It just builds hype and places more importance on each match.
Its also a stupid point. The reason there is a 2 months wait is because riot puts in a stupid nearly 1 month break. The issue isnt bo3 rr. The issue is the break from june 28 to july 20 where no games are played. That blows out the "2 month delay" that travis brings up. He is either too dumb to understand that, or he is maliciously arguing the point knowing that there are other factors cauisng this "delay" to shit on bo3s.
What's criminal of NACL is that the games are all remote for the most part. Even in tier 2-3 soccer in the US I can put on ESPN+ and find the local games. What riot should do or some NACL director is have an official NACL studio in another part of the US like Chicago or Texas to attract people who can't go to LCS every weekend. It would be a lot of upfront costs but it would be more RoI eventually. Honestly if Riot allowed outsourcing they could host other games at these esport specific venues as well.
1 thing about 1:33:00 cubby saying nba stars gives the new gen flowers. The greats like Shaq only gives flowers when they earn them, unlike with Dwight or Ben Simmons
As someone who's watched LPL for a while, not playing a particular team for a while is not that crazy. The crazy part is that the LCS won't go to double round robin Bo3, given how ridiculously few games we already play per season (and still will even with the ~25% increase from Bo3). LPL plays 136 Bo3s per regular season (and LCK plays 90) and we can only do 28?
Man, I wish that we weren't trying bo3s with this crazy fuckin schedule and everything. I feel like the schedule alone is gonna fuck up viewership and then people are gonna point to it like "see? viewership isn't good enough with bo3s."
The teams dont have any eggs, and if they did, they wouldnt understand what a basket is. Absolutely killer line by Travis. Should be framed on a wall xd
I know cubby is mad about former pros talking bad about current pros in costreams but I don’t think that represents full streams. And idk me personally I would not be watching league at all if it wasn’t for costreams.
wait until travis hears that some teams play each other once every four YEARS in the nfl lol its definitely something awkward to get used to but for the casual viewer who wants to tune in for hype matchs Bo3 is just better
LCS is gone after this year.. So many people have just lost interest, myself invluded. You can only watch your favorite team play 1 match a week? And if its a 2-0 its 2 games a week. The breaks in between? LCK teams play twice a week bo3 across i believe.. 4-5 days? While LCS can barely do 1 bo3 a week across 2 days
Ok. The last guy's take was horrible. Being the #1 challenger for a kid who has had 0 coaching and isn't a pro is mega impressive. But for guys like Sheiden and Srrty it means that they just played more games than their peers on accounts with high MMR. Because at this point they're not rookies but $200K assets because of all the support they got from their LCS affiliated teams. If you look closely most of the guys under them has the same win ratio but less games. Not to mention experienced climbers already has extremely high mmr accounts that gets them more LP despite the fact that they have the same winratio as the guys they're getting matched up against. They're just gaming the system. It's like giving an IQ test multiple times. So for experienced pros, getting challenger #1 is just a small ego boost rather than an actual achievement.
Lmao, travis, don't worry even about the haters. In my experience, almost all of them are weirdo right-wing internet edge lords that just don't like your politics. Not that you talk about politics a whole ton, but it's pretty obvious that you're on the right side of things and they don't like that. I guess maybe it's because most of the people who are being dicks for no reason on the internet are of that persuasion, but who knows. All I'm saying is that if you click on the comment history of dudes shitting on travis without explanation and for no apparent reason, a good chunk of them are on the andrew tate/carlos/jordan peterson/thorin/sargon type shit.
Travis I’ve rode with you on this journey for years…lol, lcs is dying, let’s fix it with tier 2 & 3, but the lcs dying, yeah so a highlighted tier 2 will fix it. Ik Cubby is from there so I get his bias but it’s a waste of time. It doesn’t have eyeballs for a reason, I fear talking about this so much every episode will continue to drive a negative narrative pushing me further down my excitement for the LCS.
@@TravisGafford I know Travis. Everyone knows the "asmonbald". That does not change that it is body shaming. Do you think it can not be body shaming because it was directed towards asmongold?
Silvx being praises like this is so gross. He is clearly gaining a cult of personality. His videos are the most basic formulaic hype stuff and him constantly being name dropped makes actual professionals look terrible
@@joshkonthe first discussion about teams putting effort and respurces into building their brands and costreaming and such. He was just hard against it onoy because he absolutely does not think any of the teams will do it. He may be right. But to shut it down and believe *none* of the teams will do this? Im with the other guys and was surprised at how close minded he was on that thought process
@@mrmoosetachio i can understand that. It was actually my take there he was countering but Travis and anyone not having faith in orgs to use the new format to their marketing advantage are completely justified in their doubts. Just with schedules being announced teams had little to no content about their teams schedule and what to expect for their fans. And this information had been known awhile it was becoming public
@@joshkon I wasn't arguing one side or the other on the talking point I was answering your question to op on a time where Travis was shutting down the convo because he didn't agree.
While a lot of these changes are exciting, Bo3 is such a let down and is a total trap by the most diehard fans that keep promoting the structure. If it is not a double round robin structure, Bo3 will suck for the reasons Travis stated. Sometimes the consumer doesn't understand what they actually want...what the LCS needs is just a consistent schedule yoy.
00:00:00 Intro
00:26:30 kon's take: these are the best format changes in LCS history
52:40 Kisiel's take: the gauntlet is the best thing the lcs is bringing back
01:04:46 Jonathon's take: there's a bunch of factors keeping sponsors away from CLoL
01:25:20 Marcelo's take: Silvxs has proven that content inspires old fans and new fans to the LCS
01:43:50 groggy is stoked for the Twitch extension
01:56:50 ehero's take: Sheiden has been tearing up solo queue
02:05:50 Outro
Thank you to whoever gifted me a membership now I can watch this before it's edited and posted :D
By the way Travis, you're incorrect about 8 vs 10 teams being only 20% fewer games in a Round Robin setting- it's actually closer to ~38%.
10 Choose 2 = 45
8 Choose 2 = 28
So a double Round Robin with 8 teams is absolutely doable (56 BO3s) with only 3 broadcast days. Schedule 2 BO3s per day, 6 per week x 9 weeks = 54, and you can add the remaining two matches somewhere as a superweek. 9 weeks is no issue if you start the split a little early as Kangas suggested.
Yeah, teams having to deal with having either 1 or 2 matches per week is a little awkward, but I think it's absolutely worth playing many more games and dodging the issue you mentioned of only seeing matchups once the whole split.
Dont bother. He doesnt want to understand. He needs to keep grasping at straws to support his point.
He was against double elim - look how much better msi and recent international tournaments have been with double elim
He was for franchising, saying it would stablise the league - just lead to hyper inflation of salaries and vc money which actually destabilised the league; now bottom feeder teams just sit on their ass and coast, reducing rookies and new storylines entering the league
He was against bo3s - "oh, a 2 month wait" - but ignores that nearly 1 month of that wait is no games being played. There wouldnt be a 2 month delay between matchups if riot didnt have a 3 week break in the season - that is an issue with schedule and not the format
He argues either in bad faith or complete niaveity.
@@harsimransingh8509 calm down lol 20% fewer teams = 20% fewer games is an honest mistake to make, it sounds totally plausible
@@badvertise Only plausible if you're not aware of basic mathematical principles, come on. Besides, Travis isn't just wrong, he's very loud about how wrong he is.
Early into the episode, they mentioned a dota 2 feature of spectating pro matches. I might be remembering this wrong, it has been 13-15 years, but, when Riot first introduced the real spectate feature, I believe they used to list games on their client of high profile/highly “ranked” players for a short while. So, if I remember right, they were capable of that feature a long time ago but chose to remove it, I believe, due to the loss of revenue/viewer counts for streamers/broadcasting.
Now a days, it would also be problematic due to sheer amount of people trying to DDOS and such so they can’t run the tournament online like that anymore.
I totally forgot about this, but when they mentioned it, it hit my brain.
Teams should totally take advantage of only having to play once a week by going and living and scrimming in South Korea.
2018 C9 run was Blaber/Svenskeren.
I'll be honest I forgot Worlds was primarily Sven/Jensen
The Silvxs video made me miss Danny so much.
This was a really great episode and I am thankful to have got on and give a positive take about the format changes!
Looking forward to Clol live this weekend!
And to add the "negative Kon" take here.... Finals dates are a huge 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 and no one is talking about it enough
In an ideal world where LCS had the resources, double round robin bo3 would be best. Shorten the time between splits by 2-3 weeks and do the 3 days a week with an extra day that has 1 or 2 highlight matches for the week.
But. Since there ARE resource issues. Bo3 single round robin is preferable to bo1 double round robin imo. Both have issues. Neither option gets everything right. But bo3 is just so much more enjoyable.
PLUS there is a huuuuge difference in playstyle and strategy between the 2 and i think that playing the style used for international tourneys is better.
You may have to only win one Bo5 to make words for the upper two seeds, but at least they got there via Bo3, for what that is worth.
So weird to see Brandon Sanderson on a thumbnail for Hotline League lol
Boy, this benjamin saundersen guy sounds like a pretty cool dude.
It's so cool this famous movie director benadryl saucyman is joining the league scene.
@nickmajora Yeah, it's pretty neat. I also heard that Brendan writes fanfics or something that have become pretty popular.
2018 C9 roster was, Licorice, Svenskaren, Blaber, Jensen, Goldenglue, Sneaky, and Zeyzal. I remember that team because of them making Semi-Finals after switching between Sven, Goldenglue and Blaber Jensen for mid-jungle. Loved that C9 team. Also Thank god they touched on older players shittalking current stars.
It’s really annoying I can’t watch your videos while minimising the RUclips app. Only channel it happens to.😊
It's because RUclips doesn't support it for members only videos. You will probably be able to do it on every other video on my channel.
@@TravisGaffordno worries thanks
@@TravisGafford thanks for the clarification i've always wondered what the distinction was
It's any members only videos. Including other channels.
YEAH BABY TIER 2 JUST GOT ME WATCHING EVERY GAME CANT WAIT so glad they can do something for league of legends if i was rich and popular id try that as well GL hope it works im a added viewer to it now
Brandon Sanderson the GOAT!!!
Twitch extension is my 2nd favorite update for summer for exactly the reason Khangis said. Its something that will keep me on the screen, I've got a short attention span lol. Its good for the downtime in games between objectives, or checking someones ult is on cooldown before a fight, etc. Things i'm curious about, but are harder to see if casters dont tell us. Plus, people can stop asking what Senna stacks are at XD
One of my favorite episodes in a while, I can't wait for LCS to start!
I wanted to know yours and cubby's take on NACL going "full fearless" draft?
I think our version of Fearless last split did lead to a lot of handshakes. We for sure benefitted from the novelty of having a new format last split on live patch, and I think the fact we're taking it to a further extreme keeps the novelty. I learned a lot about how fearless changed draft there is a meta that developed last split with handshakes and I'm sure we'll find a new one that develops in this format. Looking forward to seeing how that affects how people view the league and the entertainment side of the product.
Who or what is otk? I keep hearing it, but I've no idea what it is, or why Kangas thinks it's a bigger deal than B. Sanderson.
Very different audiences. It's a gaming org founded by a bunch of big streamers
Its an org of big streamers that banded together to make a brand. They are big enough they have sub-companies now. They build computers under the name Starforge, which took over most of the Artesian team after that collapse.
Youve probably heard of at least a couple of the streamers although probably not all if youre not big in the stream scene. Asmongold is the only one i recognize personally
I love Barron Sanderson's books, so happy he's part of lol eSports development
I think teams playing a bo3 and then not playing against each other again for the next 2 months is fine. It just builds hype and places more importance on each match.
Its also a stupid point. The reason there is a 2 months wait is because riot puts in a stupid nearly 1 month break.
The issue isnt bo3 rr. The issue is the break from june 28 to july 20 where no games are played. That blows out the "2 month delay" that travis brings up.
He is either too dumb to understand that, or he is maliciously arguing the point knowing that there are other factors cauisng this "delay" to shit on bo3s.
What's criminal of NACL is that the games are all remote for the most part. Even in tier 2-3 soccer in the US I can put on ESPN+ and find the local games. What riot should do or some NACL director is have an official NACL studio in another part of the US like Chicago or Texas to attract people who can't go to LCS every weekend. It would be a lot of upfront costs but it would be more RoI eventually. Honestly if Riot allowed outsourcing they could host other games at these esport specific venues as well.
Based Kangas Bo3 enjoyer. Progress in the right direction. Hope we can make it double round robin next year in LCS, if given the resources.
1 thing about 1:33:00 cubby saying nba stars gives the new gen flowers. The greats like Shaq only gives flowers when they earn them, unlike with Dwight or Ben Simmons
I woulda been happier with double round robin Bo2's
Can’t please everyone lol
Boo this man
Me as well but at the same time eh bo3 is still more hype then lame ass bo1 been so sick of them the last few years
No such thing as Bo2 hate that name change the name and ye better format
I dont remember anyone asking.
The LONG GAME of reducing transition times. Is to pitch bo3 double round robin on 3 broadcast days for next year.
HOT 🎤 LINE 🎤 LEAGUE 🎤
Magic has this like weird boomer energy.
IN yugioh at least you have access to your favorite cards more often.
really happy brayden sunderson joined NACL 😊
As someone who's watched LPL for a while, not playing a particular team for a while is not that crazy. The crazy part is that the LCS won't go to double round robin Bo3, given how ridiculously few games we already play per season (and still will even with the ~25% increase from Bo3). LPL plays 136 Bo3s per regular season (and LCK plays 90) and we can only do 28?
Lcs is gone after this year.
Man, I wish that we weren't trying bo3s with this crazy fuckin schedule and everything. I feel like the schedule alone is gonna fuck up viewership and then people are gonna point to it like "see? viewership isn't good enough with bo3s."
Cubby based...build things up dont drag the scene down !
The teams dont have any eggs, and if they did, they wouldnt understand what a basket is. Absolutely killer line by Travis. Should be framed on a wall xd
I know cubby is mad about former pros talking bad about current pros in costreams but I don’t think that represents full streams. And idk me personally I would not be watching league at all if it wasn’t for costreams.
weirdest half marathon flex😂
wait until travis hears that some teams play each other once every four YEARS in the nfl lol
its definitely something awkward to get used to but for the casual viewer who wants to tune in for hype matchs Bo3 is just better
LCS is gone after this year.. So many people have just lost interest, myself invluded. You can only watch your favorite team play 1 match a week? And if its a 2-0 its 2 games a week. The breaks in between? LCK teams play twice a week bo3 across i believe.. 4-5 days? While LCS can barely do 1 bo3 a week across 2 days
"Please welcome to this weeks: LCS Sacrifice!" (Brought to you by Kia)
Lcs cant come soon enough
Why can’t LCS do bo3 double round robin?
Scheduling and costs its unrealistic to do it but its a pipe dream
@@wokka6554 Ohhhh I see. So the LCK is just mega rich then right? Sucks to see I would’ve like it. 😔
Na is poor or just more greedy
@@e.e.9592Americans cost much more, especially in LA
Because people think having 4 broadcast days a week is impossible. It's just a bad excuse.
Ok. The last guy's take was horrible. Being the #1 challenger for a kid who has had 0 coaching and isn't a pro is mega impressive. But for guys like Sheiden and Srrty it means that they just played more games than their peers on accounts with high MMR. Because at this point they're not rookies but $200K assets because of all the support they got from their LCS affiliated teams. If you look closely most of the guys under them has the same win ratio but less games.
Not to mention experienced climbers already has extremely high mmr accounts that gets them more LP despite the fact that they have the same winratio as the guys they're getting matched up against. They're just gaming the system. It's like giving an IQ test multiple times. So for experienced pros, getting challenger #1 is just a small ego boost rather than an actual achievement.
Groggy your take made me groggy zzzz
Glad you didn't bully Nuumiii this episode. :3
Lmao, travis, don't worry even about the haters. In my experience, almost all of them are weirdo right-wing internet edge lords that just don't like your politics. Not that you talk about politics a whole ton, but it's pretty obvious that you're on the right side of things and they don't like that. I guess maybe it's because most of the people who are being dicks for no reason on the internet are of that persuasion, but who knows. All I'm saying is that if you click on the comment history of dudes shitting on travis without explanation and for no apparent reason, a good chunk of them are on the andrew tate/carlos/jordan peterson/thorin/sargon type shit.
Travis I’ve rode with you on this journey for years…lol, lcs is dying, let’s fix it with tier 2 & 3, but the lcs dying, yeah so a highlighted tier 2 will fix it. Ik Cubby is from there so I get his bias but it’s a waste of time. It doesn’t have eyeballs for a reason, I fear talking about this so much every episode will continue to drive a negative narrative pushing me further down my excitement for the LCS.
Cubby ranting about NACL for an hour again...
The intro is too long.
Use the seek bar to skip it
Bald and balding shaming is body shaming too Travis.
It's an asmon meme
@@TravisGafford I know Travis. Everyone knows the "asmonbald". That does not change that it is body shaming. Do you think it can not be body shaming because it was directed towards asmongold?
Silvx being praises like this is so gross. He is clearly gaining a cult of personality. His videos are the most basic formulaic hype stuff and him constantly being name dropped makes actual professionals look terrible
I'm sad the format change will prob mean i don't watch the league for the first time since I started following league in season 8.
Lately ur stance Travis is very arrogant. Leave the discussion open don't shut it down because u thing other wise.
Idk if I can agree with this at all. I can't think of one time this episode I felt travis was arrogant and didnt allow for an open conversation
@@joshkonthe first discussion about teams putting effort and respurces into building their brands and costreaming and such.
He was just hard against it onoy because he absolutely does not think any of the teams will do it.
He may be right. But to shut it down and believe *none* of the teams will do this? Im with the other guys and was surprised at how close minded he was on that thought process
@@mrmoosetachio i can understand that. It was actually my take there he was countering but Travis and anyone not having faith in orgs to use the new format to their marketing advantage are completely justified in their doubts.
Just with schedules being announced teams had little to no content about their teams schedule and what to expect for their fans. And this information had been known awhile it was becoming public
@@joshkon I wasn't arguing one side or the other on the talking point
I was answering your question to op on a time where Travis was shutting down the convo because he didn't agree.
i love weed and i love meridian, idaho
p.s don't california my idaho
Cubby needs to stop whining about tier 2.
I agree on the Sheiden take. As a FlyQuest fan, I think Fly should have promoted Sheiden this split.
About not playing teams for 4 months, in the NFL, you might not play a team for 2 years. Seems you're over indexing on the time between matches.
wtf is this groggy guy talking about how df does he not know what the champs do '-' no wonder soloq is fkd
My favorite part about the format changes is that i'll get to see these 100T frauds exposed further.
I love you guys, but I wish you would stop shitting on co-streamers so much. It's the only reason I'm still in the scene.
I don't shit on them, I watch them.
While a lot of these changes are exciting, Bo3 is such a let down and is a total trap by the most diehard fans that keep promoting the structure. If it is not a double round robin structure, Bo3 will suck for the reasons Travis stated. Sometimes the consumer doesn't understand what they actually want...what the LCS needs is just a consistent schedule yoy.
Lmao everyone else dont understand what they want but you know what everyone needs