How to Make Ductless Flares That Won't Leak
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- In this video, we explain how to make ductless flares that won't leak. We demonstrate how to use NAVAC flaring tools, deburr the copper, use torque wrenches, and more to make a great ductless flare.
Cutting copper squarely (with a proper tubing cutter) and deburring the copper is the best practice for getting clean copper without any shavings or debris falling inside the tubing. When deburring the copper, be sure NOT to thin out the walls and to point the copper downward so that the burr can fall out rather than back inside the tubing. It's also a good idea to put the nut on the copper before you make a flare.
When you make the flare, be sure to use a proper flaring tool with the correct height setting between the block and the cone. Bryan also puts a tiny bit of mineral oil on the cone to prevent galling. All you have to do is make sure that the copper is in tightly and up against the stop. Make sure the copper is backed all the way out, lock the copper in place, and hit the "forward" button to get a perfect flare with the NAVAC cordless flaring tool. Once finished, back the copper back out, and you'll see that you have a round, even, shiny flare. You can also use a properly configured flaring block; just make sure the copper is centered before you lock it into place. When you have a flare, you'll hear the clutch make a clicking noise.
The flare nut should cover the entire inside of the flare, and the flare should fit its attachment location all the way around.
We personally find that a tiny dab of assembly lubricant helps the flare assembly, but that practice is a bit controversial in some spaces and should be left to the manufacturer's discretion. (In this case, we demonstrate that the claim that assembly lubricant causes flare damage due to overtightening isn't necessarily true.)
Before we start torquing down the flare, we need to get the flare nut finger-tight and consult the manufacturer's literature to find the proper torque specs. If you use an assembly lubricant, you'll also want to account for that when figuring out your torque specs. Bryan's favorite torque wrench is the YellowJacket kit with multiple heads, as the heads tend to come in the right sizes. Many people like using digital torque wrenches with adjustable heads, but you may get some play in the jaws of those and will have to replace the batteries from time to time. (When adjusting the jaw, it's best to pull towards the jaw, not push.) High-end digital torque wrenches with specific flare-type heads would be ideal, but they're tough to find. You may also use a traditional torque wrench with an adapter.
In any case, the torque wrench should be set for the proper measurement system (often foot-pounds in the USA). Force should be applied only to the handle, and the wrench will get a lot harder to tighten and may make noise once it hits the torque specs you've set.
Torquing down the flare with a proper torque wrench should be followed by a pressure test to check for leaks. The system should be pressurized to the manufacturer's specs (or the data plate's test pressures). You can also use a leak reactant bubble solution on the flares. A small ductless system is usually fine with a 30-minute pressure test. (Multi-head or larger units may need up to 24 hours with a nitrogen calculator.)
The last stage of the flare creation/assembly is the evacuation and a vacuum test with a micron gauge. We typically pull down to 200 microns and make sure that the decay doesn't exceed 500 microns in 10 minutes.
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Great video!... My flaring block does NOT have a stop. I find that a flare size gauge is very helpful. I’ve also found that Nylog on the backside of the flare greatly reduces twisting, but you will over tighten (as you mentioned) if you do not reduce the torque, especially with 1/4”.
@Zain Alvaro Nice try scammer.
Hilmor makes one Orbital Flaring tool with a clutch built in, I’ve used that for almost 5 years now and I love it!
No leaks in 5 years of ownership. 🤞🏼
One thing to keep in mind is always reset the torque wrench to lowest setting after use
and pinch off the discharge line
Yeah, this will unload the spring inisde
This is best practice. Also they should be recalibrated every 5000 cycles or 12 months, which is more important in torque sensitive applications (aviation for example). In this setting one could use a digital torque tester to do a field check of the torque wrench. Find a school in you area that offers torque certification such as the one from Snap-on and NC3.
I've installed hundreds of mini splits and haven't had a single leak. I use two small $5 wrenches, Nylog Blue, BlackMax Flaring Tool (using a drill only) and muscle memory. Torque wrenches are unnecessary and are inaccurate because the Nylog Blue changes the amount of torque you need for a flare so that it's lower than the number given in the AC installation manual.
@@matttzzz2 An experienced technician can certainly install many units with no issues as been seen both in the lab and in the field over the years. I have no doubt that with experience and reasonably consistent wrench length, fastener size, and technique that optimal results can be obtained. If a lubricant is applied to the threads then torque applied will change the clamping force and applied to the flare face will change the sealing face characteristics. A quality torque wrench is accurate, what makes them less accurate is thread condition and lubrication and operator. Most issues with torque, in my experience, in entry level technicians smaller fasteners are over torqued and larger fasteners are under torqued. This can be directly seen with a Skidmore Wilhelm with technicians in training. As well differences in clamp load with dry and lubricated fasteners make a difference too. And different lubricants also changes the clamp load.
In short an entry level tech would get a torque wrench and be required to use it.
The defect in the copper isnt the copper, when you deburr with that tool, the head of it scores the inside of the copper, and smaller the pipe the more scoring. I try to either get the head of the deburring deeper in the pipe or use the red yellow jacket deburrers for smaller pipes 3/8 or below.
I had a electrical inspector come in and he asked me about the torque and I was so proud and said I did it at 55" #s and he grabbed the allen wrench and gave them a additional 1/4 turn and said that will do it. Experience out does the book sometimes.
There were 2 times that I made my flares like that just a little bigger and I had leaks, what I do now is I keep them just a little smaller (almost perfect to the size) and never had leaks ‘til today. FYI I install Mitsubishi, Fujitsu and Carrier. Of course I always used my flaring tool with the clutch and the torque wrench.
BTW great video. Thank you so much for taking the time and sharing this with us. 👍🏼
I just finished my own mini split installation, and watched many of your videos, as well as many others. I opted to use the eccentric flaring tool method to do my flares, and practiced, and analyzed the results. After I completed my system installation, which included proper torque, and Nitrogen pressure testing to my system's low side operational pressure of 340 psi for an hour, as well as a standing vacuum test of 33 microns for 30 minutes (CPS VG200 gauge), so the flaring tool worked, I couldn't help but wonder if there wasn't a better flaring tool out there because, even though the faces of my flares looked fine, the back sides had indentations and thickness variations where the tubing met the seam of the clamping block and there was a necking down of the tubing immediately behind the flare due to the clamping block. I wasn't at all happy with the quality of my flares (I did go for a $30 flaring tool after all), but I figured I'd put them together anyways and do the pressure and vacuum tests and see what happened. Obviously everything worked, however I still went on line to look for either a more expensive, or higher quality, eccentric flaring tool because the back sides of my flares looked ugly and seemed like an area that could leak. After more research, I found out about the "SPIN" flaring tools. For a little more than double what I paid for my eccentric flaring tool, but still less, or way less than the higher end eccentric tools, I was able to purchased a "SPIN" set of flaring bits. I plan to do a few more mini split installations, and I found it interesting that there were many HVAC tradesmen that commented that the "SPIN" flaring tools are the only tools they use for flaring copper. The flaring system is far superior to any other flaring system because it doesn't require an accurate stop block or height above the clamping block, doesn't require reaming, takes maybe 7 seconds to do, and doesn't neck down or work harden the tubing. All it takes is a square cut from a tubing cutter, and it's not critical if you compress the tube during cutting, and a reasonable alignment of the flaring tool with the tube. The shoulder of the flaring tool stops the travel of the tube down the flaring tool, so you can't have too big of a flare, and the back side of the flare never gets touched, so if the tube is clean and free from defects, the flare is perfect, and there is no reduction in the tubing diameter. Most importantly, because the "SPIN" tools use friction and heat to expand the tubing, the copper doesn't get compressed or work hardened as it does when the eccentric tool presses the copper tubing wall against the clamping block flare mold. The "SPIN" tools are simpler, faster, and less sensitive to issues.
Excellent, I'm going the Spin Flare way, Thank you
The one question I have is why you recommend using the adjustable jaw torque wrench by pulling against the movable jaw. That's actually the wrong way to use an adjustable jaw wrench because you're putting the stress on the weakest part of the wrench head. The fixed jaw is part of the entire wrench head and is designed to take that stress. Yes, there are times that you have to use it that way but only when it is necessary or you will wear out the mechanism faster.
I have to flare of lot of stainless and tungum tubing at work. As one of my mentors said to me: "I've heard of people flaring the tubing and forgetting to put the nut on first, but I've personally never done it."
Robert L you havnt done alot of flaring then. I dont know of anyone in the trade who's never forgot to put the nut on a time or two. If you have alot going on and your mind is thinking about too many things, it happens to the best of us.
Bryan Swanson we’ve all done it plenty, he was being sarcastic.
Wow!! As a home owner who spent a lot of money on a 6 zone mini split system installation By a company that didn’t know what they were doing. I am constantly forced to fix their botched up work. Thank you so much for posting, I have been looking for these tips all over on flare connections on the web, HVAC forums, personal asking HVAC company employees, mini split manufactures information, and books. This is by far the best instructional and tips I have ever seen , answered all my questions , on proper flaring, deburring, torque wrenches, and nylog. Thank you so much for posting the videos. Your doing a really great thing. I am going to be watching all your videos!!
There are 2 different types of flare blocks, 37°, and 45°, the 45 is used in our industry, while automotive brake or hydraulic line will use 37 and there are several different specs for them.
The CPS FTXSG Go-NoGo flare sizing gage is a must-have tool when working with mini-splits.
I also have had great success with the Flare-tite gaskets, I'll use them in places where I know future access will be very difficult.
I agree about the digital torque wrench. Head is too big. I also like to put the nylog where the flare meets the valve. 😎👍
I love that yellow jacket torque wrench, also enjoying the yellow jacket flare right now
Good demonstration of pro tools
Best video on making flares I’ve seen, scientific and complete.
My lineset pioneer came with double flares,, Is that ok because everyone says to reflare linesets but these are perfect looking and thick.
No bubbles no troubles.
FYI, many guys recommend this assembly lubricant. I was told by a Mitsubishi rep yesterday, that they will not honor their warranty if a system is found to have ANY chemicals or additives within a ductless system, including these sealers (or any dyes) as they have been known to plug minute openings within the system (such as circuit sensors) & affect operations.
I love that you brought up the traditional torque wrench with a crows foot because I literally almost did that one time in a pinch but I was able to get the yellow jacket instead
I like the YJ torque wrench set up and the Navac flare kit. Very good lesson on flares. I've done many flares on refer and oil lines, new technology stands out. Thank you for the video. AND HVAC ON!!!
I've learned so mant things, thank you.
Nothing worse than finishing a perfect flare and realizing you forgot the nut lol
If I don’t remember wrong the last time I have a training with Mitsubishi they recommend test pressure as on the high side.
if its a heat pump you would test the high side pressure, if its air conditioning only you only test to low side pressure.
Husky has a flaring block $39 with the eccentric and the clutch just like this one works nice
There's knockoffs on Amazon too. Likely the one manufacturer makes them all and relabels but sells their own label too.
I found that I did not have enough room to use my very nice Klein full size pipe cutter, so I ended up getting a compact Rigid cutter to cut the tubes.
Great video thanks for taking the time to make it.
Thanks for the nitrogen calculator. Great video.
17:15 ‘nice and centered’ How do you center an asymmetric flare tool 🤔
lol yes
Thank you!!!
Newbie from SE Mass
Great video....very informative.
Speaking pressure testing, on one occasion i pressurized to 600psi. The indoor coil developed a bow. Id reccomend less than 300 for pressure tests.
New tech. Good demo.
Demo is another thing, we install 5 to 6 AC's a day on the paraped wall of 12 inches with old system and leaves no leakage even.
The quality, especially the pipe gauge of pipes and nuts that matters a lot but more importantly the concentration put in while performing each job till completion.
Right. Special tools for a flare.
Super helpful!!! Thank you for making videos like this. God Bless.
How are you “spinning” it to check the flare when you have 30’ attached at the other end?
You make a good point. It normal situations you are just looking all the way around with a mirror.
I was thinking the same thing.. :-)
It’s just a video for a demo, use your head
@@bstevermer9293 IMO It's not just a demonstration video. it's an instructional video with not only a visual but an audible component that focuses on a step that in most cases is not possible. The question (that is really a statement (I'm pretty sure C Dubs knew the answer)) is valid. HVAC school creates very good, well thought_out product based video's on topics that are front-and-center in our industry.
Statements like these will only help make better, instructional video's in the future.
RJ_Make
It’s a free video.. it’s worth just that..
You set the torque wrench at 7 ft. lbs. Also, the only torque wrench that it’s critical to use the handle on are the beam type with the long pointer. Click type and digital read off of the head and while it’s good practice, it’s not critical to use the handle. The beam type used a pivoting handle to keep the critical distance between the head and the pivot point of the handle consistent.
Great comment. Indeed you are correct
Then does that means that when you use crows extensions, you don't have to use them at 90 degrees with the click type torque wrench finally?
7:42, try cutting opposite direction, it is easy and keep constant pressure...
The typical standard torque wrench will block part of claw / crows foot opening
Good explanation thanks
Nice tools brother👍
You should not lubricate the threads just the seat. you want frictin on the threads but not on the seat of the flair.
We have been using double flares for 2 years now. No leaks and no need to ream the tubing as the cut is now thrown to the back of the flare. These preinsulated copper lines are too thin for a single flare.
very nice,,thanks a lot to you Sir...
Very very good
Old school works fine😉👍🏻
Some techs have recommended, after the first torque, to loosen then re-torque to final. I guess the idea is you're not fighting against the machination of the flate-to-tapered face? Thoughts?
When is someone gonna come up with an system like pex style connectivity for the mini split INDUSTRY or HVAC as a whole..
THEY HAVE A SHARK BITE FITTINGS NOW
They have two push to connect types. Rectorseal pro-fit and Parker zoomlock push
I've used digi's but nothing's been better or lasted longer than my Snap On. Old school; accurate; durable; reliable; built to last years. That's what the YJ system reminds me of. There's no way in hell that enough variance exists between digi and mechanical to make a real-world difference. I don't buy it. YJ or modify to use my Snapon.
I’m not a fan of digital torque wrenches, I much prefer the tactile “clunk” of a click style torque wrench.
Autofocus.. the bane of handheld cameras.
Is a pressure test really essential? As a non pro, I’ve installed a few systems and never had a leak using nylog and only vacuuming. I leave it for 12 hours under vacuum and if it doesn’t budge, I assume I’m good and release the gas. I also only tighten the flares by hand. I don’t have a nitrogen tank, which is why I’ve never done it.
Use a lubricant... if you're into that kind of thing. But srsly: Great video; thank you very much!
@13:05 But when you lubricate the threads this will mess up your factory torque settings. The torque will be lower with lubrication than without on the threads, any thread by the way. It's friction. Just lubricate the flare that's it.
Exactly. Nylog Blue makes the torque specs in the installation manual useless, so the torque wrench is now useless.
@@matttzzz2 Yeah right, by the way I use just simple compressor oil on my flaring tool first, that reduces the friction and a tiny drop on the flare later prior connection. I can't get Nylog here in Germany, but on the end I guess it's just Compressor Oil too with a fancy name and a superb price tag on it. Greetings from Germany
I understand this is for professionals, but I need to do ONE flare job on an existing NG line ( probabky not to code now), the first I've done since helping my Dad 65 years ago, and probably my last, since I am 78. I bought a $92 flare kit, but can't see buying an expensive torque wrench. My Dad never used a torque wrench, and I've seen vids recommending hand tightened then add one quarter turn with a wrench, then test for leaks, of course. Do you think that will be safe? Thx
Can you pump down refrigerant back into compressor to save refrigerant when doing repairs to flares
Why is the HVAC industry using such a tiny flare? Seems like there are so many better ways for a tighter connection just seems so silly to me seeing how that little surface area is what is sealing the unit. No other industry is like that.
So why do they not use a double flare as that is the gold standard when it comes to flaring?
Nice tools
Your thoughts on the spin flare and do any of you guys use them
They r 👍
Even for R-410A systems
I run into so many these things leaking. I end up redoing the flares. Using Nylog and flare seals.
Nice flar matchin
Good video and practices. I use the CPS flaring tool and torque wrench as well as nylog on the flare surfaces. I've had issues crushing the 1/4" flares before getting to 16 nm, which is the specs on the systems I install. I'm not sure if it's the lube or poor quality copper. Any thoughts or suggestions?
same problem with the yellow jacket torque wrench. only the 1/4 small torque value. dont trust the wrench at low settings.
16 is to much I’ve flattened out the 1/4” to the point that they are paper thin and actually pull out of the nut blowing 600# test in my face. I prefer 9 to 10 lbs. It’s also important not to over ream. I’ve seen guys ream to a knifes edge, leaving a thin surface to flare.
What is your opinion of the different flare seals on the market?
Thanks Bryan!
Like the test with NAVAC Tools, they are coming out with a really good Tools.
HAve you tried the flaring spin tool?
What are your thoughts about it?
I like the spin tool. It works awesome .
Great lessons.
For gasket sealan. Can i use any sealants to apply it? Or is there is any specific code for AC?
You should never put any material on the threads of a torqued fitting or your torque will be completely incorrect.
EXCELLENT!!
challenge is...repairing a connection in the indoor unit when your working with limited space and limited pipe since it has already been unproperly installed or has come loose with time. great intructional video for an install
The indoor unit connections are the real nightmare, aren't they?
Why don't you use double flare? Isn't it providing a better seal?
flare seal , done .
If we use flaring tool drill for this case need to reamer it or not? Thanks.
Diakin comes with those purple seals?
My Daikin instructions say not to put on the backside of the flare.
What are your thoughts on cone style de-burring tools? I am going to use one on a install
Where can I buy the Navac NTF66 flaring tool? Can’t seem to find a supply store here in Los Angeles. Or any online store?
I'll try to answer you in Q/A video
sir how can i order the digital torque wrench or refrigeration and aircon tools? please help me. GOD BLESS
Wait you guys are all using torque wrenches ?? I’ve installed hundreds and hundreds with adjustable wrenches and feel am I the only one ?
NICE
Do you have links to that torque wrench???
That flair gun is badass. Where can I buy
Good video, I agree with you on the non digital torque wrench, I have used the CPS flaring block tool & non digital torque wrench set for the last 8 years, with no major problems. Just curious do you have a opinion on those flaring bits from rectorseal that you use with a 18 volt cordless drill?
Superior Comfort Heating & Air LLC I love my spin flare when I have to use it just because you can be somewhat lazy and make an ok fare but seeing as how you get the copper hot, the flare forms to the mating face very well.
@@andrewhicks6494 doesn’t the heat work harden the copper or does it not matter?
@@rickedwards7276 no it doesn’t get the copper hot enough to work harden it but it gets it hot enough where it will flex and squish when you tighten the flare nut
Thanks for the video I was told that you shouldn’t use the factory’s flares in mini splits and do your own is that true ? Thank you
JM M Ok thank you i
I ripped through my flare threading and my torque wrench want even close to the minimum required torque. What an I doing wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for sharing this video Sir so nice tutorial.
Not sure how to explain. But on my 1/4in I get slipping. I torque it to 14 but it only gets to 13 to 13.5. than goes back to 12. If I keep going the flare disappears and I have to start over. What am I doing wrong?
Did you found out?
What did you lubricate the flare block cone with?
Can we use nylog or not???!!!??
I have watched a technician put the head on 90° off. It never clicks. Stripped the threads off the nuts.
What the heck was that noise at 20:32? I'm thinking it was the two lines tapping each other since you had 3ft stubs?
What kind of mineral oil do you use on the flaring tool (brand or name), to flare pipes? Also, will WD-40 3-IN-ONE be good for this? Thank you!
no, never, wd-40 is a big no no,,,,, refrigerent oil is an animal all to itself, nylog is the only thing that can be purchased readily and easy to use
Cut a flare nut in half. 410a flare nuts are machined. CPS gauge needed. To small or to big no good. I fallow around 40m sales shop all summer. 8 to 16 flares a job. If it flat nitro bubbles. Yup. Reflare them all.
Thats odd, im looking at a pioneer minisplit paperwork and a 6.35 gauge pipe..or 1/4" calls for 15 N.m or 11~12 ft/lb and a 12.7 gauge or 1/2" calls for 35~36 N.m or 26~27 ft/lb while your paperwork at 2:59 says 49~56 N.m for a 1/2" and 36~42 ft/lb. Why would copper pipe have much different torque specs according to manufacturer?
A note to all to refer to the paperwork provided with your unit and not similar paperwork for different brands.
To many mistakes can be made with flare joints. If all the lines could be brazed then there would be less problems in the field.
I just tried to do 25 Nm on 6mm pipe, per the instructions. And it stripped the damn nut...
Why is the industry stuck on flared connections? Doesn't propress have potential here?
Accuracy of the tool is why we use the tool. BM is faster and more accurate.
awesome if you have the 500$ navac tools.
how can you spin the pair coil while is connected to the indoor
How depth is the depth gauge? On 16:57
Juan Todolí 0.5mm
@@rossm06 Thank you. I think the key is that depth.
Juan Todolí there are also available a flare size gauge to check it the flare is the correct size. I have one from Daikin and I have also seen then on Amazon
Hold the copper up ?????? Not while it's attached. I use a small vacuum.
Forgot to triple evac
Where did you get that really annoying "Music for Deburing Copper Tubing"?
I googled “music to annoy Abe”