I've posted this on two other videos about Null before but: imagine this from Null's perspective: -you're keeping your space clean -just the way you like it -these three golden [can't say that on a christian minecraft channel!] show up -decide they don't like the way you live your life -bury you in infinite dirt -worms in the dirt play out a story -it's kinda good -worms in the dirt play out a story -it's kinda good, kinda reminds you of the previous story -worms in the dirt play out a story -kinda reminds you of the previous stories -worms in the dirt play out a story -it's just the previous stories -repeat ad infinitum -still trying to clean all the while -golden [still can't say that on a christian minecraft channel!]'s littlest bugs make more dirt -decide to get sneaky about it -make your own worms -your worms wrap up the little bugs -your worms keep other worms busy with story -annoyingly sparkly worm teams up with bug -golden [still can't say that on a christian minecraft channel but this isn't a christian minecraft channel]'s favorite triangles come into play -it would be perfect for cleaning all this dirt -trick sparkly worm-bug duo into opening path to triangles -golden goddesses put three-factor authentication on the path -also imply that you're the worm that keeps trying to take the triangles -you lose -worms in the dirt play out a story -worm that looks like you tries to take the triangles
The Creation of the World story in Echoes of Wisdom is what makes this zelda game so DAMN rich and more INSANE ever since Hylia’s struggle against Demise (or Bringer of Demise in Japanese)in Skyward Sword.
@@QuestWithAaron To think the Land of Hyrule served it’s other purpose besides the creation of paradise Din, Nayru, and Farore has made (as seen in Ocarina of Time) it makes me wonder if whether there much is much more to Hyrule than what it seems.. or this another dark secret the kingdom had been kept hidden from everyone. And also, how is Null aware of Ganon and took this form to draw Link out by capturing Princess Zelda before the opening of the game? This really left us a ton of questions then answers.
Null have become my new favorite Legend of Zelda villain! Conquering the land of Hyrule for domination, if you are Ganon/Ganondorf or Demise, is nothing but a child’s step to this ancient entity’s goal to erase all existence of Hyrule and put the void of nothingness in a permanent state to prevent more destruction and creation. It’s a scary feeling to think that a being exist who’s as old as timecapable of creating rifts and bend reality to his own liking.
The thing however is that Null was very limited in its Power during imprisoning, he kind of had to Rely on Ganon to Mind-controll him and use his Powers or copy himself to even do all of this.
@@Chris-gx1ei It's actually something I wonder about......The crazy thing is, based on the fact that Ganon was an Echo throughout the whole game, that eludes to the fact or possibility that Ganon-a former possessor of the Triforce-was overpowered, slain and replicated by Null! Given that with the lore in the game, that Null and the Tris have been in this endless dance of destruction of creation through the opening of Voids versus a repairing through creative powers, it hints that Null may not have been the weakest being out there!
Absolutely! I do believe that Null and Demise are entirely separate. Demise is essentially representative of 魔, a Japanese concept of a type of "evil" that latches onto vulnerable life. I'll be taking about this in great detail in the next video after this one but this concept is born from the evil within the hearts of others as well
@@QuestWithAaron But doesn't Demise's Japanese title "Shuuen no Mono" mean "avatar/embodiment of final destruction"? You said in one of your previous videos that "shuuen" is more akin to "final complete annihilation" or "final complete endpoint" than "demise."
EoW's contribution to the series' lore cannot be understated. The very idea alone that the goddesses of creation could be subdued in some manner by another entity is something that iirc is not even entertained in previous works. During my first playthrough I was so shocked to learn such a thing was even possible. Null and the Still World/Mu no Sekai are great and fascinating additions to the lore. Another banger video @QuestWithAaron, thank you so much for this additional insight.
My Logical guess to why Null could do it was simply because the Triforce represents the Great Power that the Goddesses have given up - which might explain why they exist as Oracles in Oracle of Seasons&Ages and in Minish Cap Afterall Nulk was after the Triforce - after *their* power, the same Power that basically one-shot him when it was in the hands of two Mortals.
@Chris-gx1ei I like this interpretation. It also fits well with another comment here that posits the Triforce being left in the world is necessary to keep it alive and in balance, with its absence bringing the degradation of reality and eventual complete collapse, as was witnessed with Lorule in ALBW. This would also explain why Null *needs* the Triforce to complete its goal; even with the goddesses of creation captured, without the removal of the Triforce, it cannot fully destroy the world itself and return all to nothing
Thank you! I absolutely agree! When you first encounter one of the Goddesses after completing one of the dungeons in the second half of the game, I couldn't believe it. It was such a wonderful surprise
@@darkdagger5237 Says who? To me it pretty much seems Logical that they are the Goddesses as Mortals incarnated to live in the World that they created - like who would not do that?
Null would fit right in as buddies with characters like "Cloud of Darkness", "Zeromus", "Ex-Death" and "Xemnas" who all have a preoccupation with returning all creation to a state of "Nothing" or "The Void"
Cloud of Darkness instantly came to my mind when I first heard Null's story. The Still World is also very similar to the Distortion World from Pokémon Platinum.
Hope the information in this video gets around the Zelda theorist community, I saw people interpreting Null as some kind of victim which is just absurd. He selfishly wants nothing to exist so that nothingness can remain endless. As you allude to, "mu" is very different when it's referring to ego death and ascension above human concerns as it does in Buddhism vs a very genuine annihilation of all that exists. I don't know how anyone can think the Goddesses were the bad guys when they stopped something from crushing all life out of the universe.
So, Null and his world of nothiness could be thought of as the "painting" that the Goddesses "painted over" with the world of Hyrule? Seems to me that between the two worlds, they could have implemented a primer, something to prevent the image of the old world from influencing the image of the new world, and that this "Prime Energy" is the nature of this interstitial space.
Since both games have the same words in Japanese Phrase (大いなる力 (translates to Great power)), there a secret inside Hyrule castle that there’s a design of a bird-like creature on the windows near the entrance that leads to the throne room. Also, there is a Goddess Statue in the dungeon as Zelda begins to changed her appearance. That statue resembles the Goddess Statue from Skyward Sword. It may be plausible that this version of the Kingdom of Hyrule in Echoes of Wisdom have remembered the events of Skyward Sword.
It could be that, although it's worth noting Nintendo's tendency for mere reference and easter egg placing, as shown with the Rito carvings on the walls of Hyrule Market Town in the HD remastered version of Twilight Princess. The loftwing-like decorations and Goddess Statue might just also be a reference for sheer reference's sake, devoid of any implications regarding the game's placement in the timeline.
Aaron, you are on a much higher level than other Zelda theorizers thanks to you probably being the only one who can look at the original Japanese and view it from that perspective rather than the cultural Anglo-biases that may shape the translations.
@QuestWithAaron I'm a little late with this question but where do the Tris fit in to all this? What sources were they inspired by? Do they have any Japanese Representation at all?
Before starting, I think the "before land and sky, there was only the void" is referring to the space that the world now occupies. Null referred to the Goddesses as if he knew of them, but since he consumed everything that materialized in the void, that'd mean the Goddesses came from elsewhere. They may have feared Null would decide to expand its territory. As for Demise and the demon tribe, I think they were around back then too. They knew the Void as their sky, and when the Goddesses created the world to imprison Null? Well, every structure needs a foundation, and so the Old World was buried alive.
But aren't demons created by the evil inside mortals? The japanese script of Skyward Sword alludes to that during Demise's defeat speech, implying "jaki" (japanese for evil) would always create beings who Link and Hylia's descendants would be forced to fight for eternity. With no mortals around due to the goddesses not creating the universe yet, there's no source of jaki with which new demons are born, preventing Demise and his ilk from ever existing.
@@javiervasquez625 Within mortals, perhaps... but what about within Null and those who existed only to end up being consumed by it? We see some rather bizzare shapes and "forms" of demons back in Skyward Sword that never appear again (Scaldera, for instance), and Rauru the Zonai King of Light is shown in Tears of the Kingdom to have imprisoned quite a few Demons such as Colgera, Mucktorok, Queen Gibdo, and Marbled Gohma within the Lightroots of the underground. Perhaps this insatiable gluttonous desire to be the only thing in existence that Null had was what caused the first Demons to arise, while the other, non-demonic entities were caused by the severe imbalance and spontaneously crystallized out of it as Mu-no-sekai attempted to self-correct? And when Null was imprisoned, this led to a sudden spike in demons as his rage manifested, with Demise being one of those manifestations that ended up coming out on top?
@@kennyholmes5196 Regarding the creation and existence of demons, thanks to Aaron's video _"How Demise's Secret Origin Connects Skyward Sword & Breath of the Wild",_ it has always been my understanding that demons are a by-product of the very existence of jaki within the hearts of humans, which creates evil monsters and creatures as a result of said evil lurking within humanity itself. If it's the very existence of evil which creates demons, then that logic points at demons only coming into being after the Golden Goddesses created the Zelda universe and humans were already around to create demons through their evil. Needless to say, Aaron's video on Demise does a very good job analyzing the japanese script of Skyward Sword, and giving a few pointers to the conclusion i've laid down above.
I absolutely love the design of the Tris and I had no idea why until this video. They embody this concept of Mu you’re talking about; of not emptiness but an indefinite, an amorphous material, description, and association: not just a lack of being a concrete something but a lack of a lack in the first place. From this indefinite wellspring of potential, where anything can arise in concept or function. The Tris themselves look formed or sculpted, taking shape itself or from a creative expression with the material. They look both like the familiar little art projects we made as kids while seeming otherworldly and divine in a sense, shaping their world as well as both made and maker. The Tris are in design and philosophy where playful imagination and profoundly wise spirituality go hand in hand.
The Tri's representing creative expression is a fantastic interpretation. The way you worded this was amazing and I completely agree with you. Perhaps slightly off topic, but you reminded me: I think it's quite ironic how considering Null wants to convert everything to nothingness, its appearance not only resembles a Tri itself, but it also uses creation as a means to achieve its goal of nothingness.
The Still World is Néant (Void) in French. Demise is called Avatar du Néant (Avatar of the Void) in French. He came out of a crack. Was Demise just an Avatar of Null? Making Ganondorf related to Null? That would explain why Null made Echoes of Ganon.
The thing is Null can only create Echoes thanks to the Tri and they can only create things that already existed once, they cannot create new things out of nowhere. The only way Null would copy Ganon is Because Ganon has potentially died and Null took over his remains to copy him - heck possibly the entire cataclysm caused by Null may be only because he managed to get somehow access to Ganon or his Remains, because only through him he can copy Demons, only through him he has authority over them and only through him he can create Boss Monsters as Echoes and use them to capture the Tris that would otherwise fix everything instantly
Is Null bound by the rules of time? Could he just pop open a rift in the past or future of EOW? I'm trying to figure out how he got Ganon's echo, also Demise was said to be a being outside of time so I feel like Null should be as well. Is there any indication in the Japanese about either of these 2 being outside of time?
So, would that mean that the goddesses got captured in this nothingness as soon as they departed the world after creating it, where the Triforce was left behind? Maybe the Trifoce being created was a result of the goddesses being trapped at the instant they departed the mortal realm. We never got the reason "why" the Triforce got created, just the fact that it did as soon as the goddesses left. Also, I wonder how Demise relates to this. If Hylia was created by the goddesses, was Demise also created by them? Or was he created by Null? (later in the video you imply that he wasn't created by Null, nor the Demons) That'd imply that Demons are a result of the creation of the world, and not something that has existed prior. Although I remember it being mentioned that the Demons resent the goddesses painting the world over their chaos, so perhaps they are a manifestation or creation of Null to combat Hylia and the mortal realm, since he already had captured the goddesses. So, while Null and the goddesses existed first, Demise still remains the first manifestation of evil on the world to counteract the creation of the goddesses. (But, as you mentioned, even the concept of evil (or good) would cease if Null got his way. So, I am led to believe the demons are independent of Null and are a creation of the world itself, ergo also created by the goddesses (the natural result of the potential of the world being created with its laws of nature, giving rise to good and evil.)) Also did I miss it, or what is a Tri actually?
Guess the Golden Goddesses aren’t omnipotent if they can’t even escape from being trapped. Now the supposedly powers of the Triforce are coming into question when in prior games it was stated to be the divine relic of omnipotent power. Looks like Nintendo made an oppise or the lore is just specific to echoes and have no bigger meaning on the series as a whole.
I think Demise was "created" from Null like how Calamity was "created" from Ganondorf. Formed from a hate so strong it became its own entity with a life of its own.
Regarding the question of why, i've always assumed A Link between Worlds was the answer to that question, by showing what happens to the entire universe should the Triforce cease to exist: utter chaos as the very fabric of reality tears itself appart. The way i see it, the Triforce serves as a roman scale which keeps the entire Zelda universe in _balance,_ preventing reality from reverting into chaos without the guiding light left by Golden Goddesses for that very purpose. Regarding the creation of demons, thanks to Aaron's video _"How Demise's Secret Origin Connects Skyward Sword & Breath of the Wild",_ it has always been my understanding that demons are a by-product of the very existence of evil (called jaki in japanese) within the hearts of humans, which creates evil monsters and creatures as a result of said evil lurking within humanity itself. If it's the very existence of evil which creates demons, then that logic points at demons only coming into being after the Golden Goddesses created the Zelda universe and humans were already around to create demons through their evil. Needless to say, Aaron's video on Demise does a very good job analyzing the japanese script of Skyward Sword, and giving a few pointers to the conclusion i've laid down above.
@@JuwanBuchanan My headcanon as to the Golden Goddesses's "impotence", is that when they are _seperate_ from one another, their powers are bound to physical limitations which only affect the world for as much as their respective essence allows them to. When they are together and using their combined power as *one* (eg: the Triforce), only then do the three women achieved omnipotence by merging their essences of Power, Wisdom and Courage. Basically, they're only omnipotent when they're together and not seperate from one another.
@@quillion3rdoption Yet, Echoes of Wisdom never shows or hints at Null's hatred having the power to _create_ demons, making a strong case for him not been the source of any demons, unlike say Ganondorf, Majora, Vaati and Malladus who are shown able to create monsters ex-nihilo by their sheer hatred and evil.
Wait! It’s the second time RUclips didn’t notice me there is a new video. RUclips, let me support this channel as usual!!! Great video as always! What Iike so much about them, it’s because you do more than just translation, you put things into context.
I feel like the creation lore behind the world’s creation is only specific to this Zelda game with Null and doesn’t bare any bigger significance to the entire continuity of Zelda as a whole, the timelines etc but this stuff is always fun and interesting to talk about. Does Null exist in other timelines or is it a godlike being that only exist in the timeline Echoes take place in? Only time will tell
Well, considering the game's implication for Null been an entity "beyond space and time", one could argue that Null's existence does in fact transcend the timelines themselves, allowing him to exist simultaneously throughout all timelines as a singular being. With that in mind, killing Null in the Echoes of Wisdom timeline might have killed Null across _all_ timelines.
That would be a scary feeling to think Null may be still around in either the current timeline (BOTW and TOTK), the child timeline, the adult timeline, or the downfall timeline.
I wonder if there is even deeper significance, seeing as how this is the first game where we play as Zelda. Sure, it _seems_ like Demise/Ganon/Ganondorf is the big bad of all the other titles, but maybe Ganondorf is just to Null what Link is to Hylia and the Three Goddesses? Link is the Champion of this World, Ganondorf is the Champion of the World of Null, and Zelda has been aware of this the whole time.
Ganondorf is more the type of Person that seeks conflict, he gets a stimulation from combat like everyone else would get from sex. He is dedicated to combat and desires to turn the world into hell while Null wants to bring Oblivion. And Null is apparently also very dependant on Ganon's Powers, since Null always failed to break free, yet now he suddenly can once he got the Ability to clone Ganon or mind control him (which wouldnt be that difficult since Ganon was a Mindless Brute in the Downfall Timeline
@Chris-gx1ei So it's more like Ganon/Demise/Ganondorf has his own thing going on, *but* maybe Null piggy-backs on Ganons initiative, give him the strength to do what he is already inclined towards. I like this. I imagine Ganon may not even be aware of Null, that he isn't even conscious of how much of his power is being bolstered by unseen Patrons that seek to undo the world through his unchecked ambition.
@@chrispork1443 Yeah I think it was a little on the easy side, especially on normal mode with the ability to heal by conjuring up beds. I haven't played on hero-mode yet, so perhaps it might be worth a shot
My thoughts about Null being separate or connected to Demise is this: I believe Demise was created by Null "on accident", like how TotK Ganondorf "accidentally" created Calamity. Their respective hatreds took lives of their own and became separate from their origins. Also, even though monsters CAN get swallowed by the Rifts, the "Light World" monsters can clearly still survive in it whereas Hylians, Zora, Gorons, etc. are "stilled." I think this indicates that the monsters have a "chaotic essence" that's tied to Null, the being of primordial chaos. Therefore Demise would have a "chaotic essence" too, even if he's unaware of it.
@Jarock316 Yes, but Demise isn't an Echo, like how Calamity isn't a Gloom Spawn or Phantom Ganon. Null wouldn't know anything about how Demise came about, now would Demise know where he came from.
I agree.this has been an ongoing issue we had been having with American Nintendo since BOTW and TOTK. They changed the text and dialogue without respecting the original source or making the correct translation.
I've posted this on two other videos about Null before but:
imagine this from Null's perspective:
-you're keeping your space clean
-just the way you like it
-these three golden [can't say that on a christian minecraft channel!] show up
-decide they don't like the way you live your life
-bury you in infinite dirt
-worms in the dirt play out a story
-it's kinda good
-worms in the dirt play out a story
-it's kinda good, kinda reminds you of the previous story
-worms in the dirt play out a story
-kinda reminds you of the previous stories
-worms in the dirt play out a story
-it's just the previous stories
-repeat ad infinitum
-still trying to clean all the while
-golden [still can't say that on a christian minecraft channel!]'s littlest bugs make more dirt
-decide to get sneaky about it
-make your own worms
-your worms wrap up the little bugs
-your worms keep other worms busy with story
-annoyingly sparkly worm teams up with bug
-golden [still can't say that on a christian minecraft channel but this isn't a christian minecraft channel]'s favorite triangles come into play
-it would be perfect for cleaning all this dirt
-trick sparkly worm-bug duo into opening path to triangles
-golden goddesses put three-factor authentication on the path
-also imply that you're the worm that keeps trying to take the triangles
-you lose
-worms in the dirt play out a story
-worm that looks like you tries to take the triangles
The Creation of the World story in Echoes of Wisdom is what makes this zelda game so DAMN rich and more INSANE ever since Hylia’s struggle against Demise (or Bringer of Demise in Japanese)in Skyward Sword.
I couldn't agree more!
@@QuestWithAaron To think the Land of Hyrule served it’s other purpose besides the creation of paradise Din, Nayru, and Farore has made (as seen in Ocarina of Time) it makes me wonder if whether there much is much more to Hyrule than what it seems.. or this another dark secret the kingdom had been kept hidden from everyone.
And also, how is Null aware of Ganon and took this form to draw Link out by capturing Princess Zelda before the opening of the game? This really left us a ton of questions then answers.
Null have become my new favorite Legend of Zelda villain! Conquering the land of Hyrule for domination, if you are Ganon/Ganondorf or Demise, is nothing but a child’s step to this ancient entity’s goal to erase all existence of Hyrule and put the void of nothingness in a permanent state to prevent more destruction and creation. It’s a scary feeling to think that a being exist who’s as old as timecapable of creating rifts and bend reality to his own liking.
Same. I really hope that Null appears in other games as I think Ganon/Ganondorf has well overstayed their welcome.
The thing however is that Null was very limited in its Power during imprisoning, he kind of had to Rely on Ganon to Mind-controll him and use his Powers or copy himself to even do all of this.
@@Chris-gx1ei It's actually something I wonder about......The crazy thing is, based on the fact that Ganon was an Echo throughout the whole game, that eludes to the fact or possibility that Ganon-a former possessor of the Triforce-was overpowered, slain and replicated by Null! Given that with the lore in the game, that Null and the Tris have been in this endless dance of destruction of creation through the opening of Voids versus a repairing through creative powers, it hints that Null may not have been the weakest being out there!
Absolutely! I do believe that Null and Demise are entirely separate. Demise is essentially representative of 魔, a Japanese concept of a type of "evil" that latches onto vulnerable life. I'll be taking about this in great detail in the next video after this one but this concept is born from the evil within the hearts of others as well
@@QuestWithAaron But doesn't Demise's Japanese title "Shuuen no Mono" mean "avatar/embodiment of final destruction"? You said in one of your previous videos that "shuuen" is more akin to "final complete annihilation" or "final complete endpoint" than "demise."
Well done on this one Aaron. Null is such a great addition to the series imho
A wild Burgerson has appeared!
Thank you so much, sir! I completely agree with you for many reasons! It was a very refreshing experience encountering a brand new villain
EoW's contribution to the series' lore cannot be understated. The very idea alone that the goddesses of creation could be subdued in some manner by another entity is something that iirc is not even entertained in previous works. During my first playthrough I was so shocked to learn such a thing was even possible. Null and the Still World/Mu no Sekai are great and fascinating additions to the lore. Another banger video @QuestWithAaron, thank you so much for this additional insight.
My Logical guess to why Null could do it was simply because the Triforce represents the Great Power that the Goddesses have given up - which might explain why they exist as Oracles in Oracle of Seasons&Ages and in Minish Cap
Afterall Nulk was after the Triforce - after *their* power, the same Power that basically one-shot him when it was in the hands of two Mortals.
@Chris-gx1ei I like this interpretation. It also fits well with another comment here that posits the Triforce being left in the world is necessary to keep it alive and in balance, with its absence bringing the degradation of reality and eventual complete collapse, as was witnessed with Lorule in ALBW. This would also explain why Null *needs* the Triforce to complete its goal; even with the goddesses of creation captured, without the removal of the Triforce, it cannot fully destroy the world itself and return all to nothing
@@Chris-gx1ei The oracles are not the golden goddesses.
Thank you! I absolutely agree! When you first encounter one of the Goddesses after completing one of the dungeons in the second half of the game, I couldn't believe it. It was such a wonderful surprise
@@darkdagger5237
Says who? To me it pretty much seems Logical that they are the Goddesses as Mortals incarnated to live in the World that they created - like who would not do that?
Null would fit right in as buddies with characters like "Cloud of Darkness", "Zeromus", "Ex-Death" and "Xemnas" who all have a preoccupation with returning all creation to a state of "Nothing" or "The Void"
Cloud of Darkness instantly came to my mind when I first heard Null's story. The Still World is also very similar to the Distortion World from Pokémon Platinum.
Hope the information in this video gets around the Zelda theorist community, I saw people interpreting Null as some kind of victim which is just absurd. He selfishly wants nothing to exist so that nothingness can remain endless. As you allude to, "mu" is very different when it's referring to ego death and ascension above human concerns as it does in Buddhism vs a very genuine annihilation of all that exists. I don't know how anyone can think the Goddesses were the bad guys when they stopped something from crushing all life out of the universe.
So, Null and his world of nothiness could be thought of as the "painting" that the Goddesses "painted over" with the world of Hyrule? Seems to me that between the two worlds, they could have implemented a primer, something to prevent the image of the old world from influencing the image of the new world, and that this "Prime Energy" is the nature of this interstitial space.
I loved how the story of this game was so easy to understand while still maintaining a deep lore.
I agree! The non existent lore is out of this world! (Literally)
@@QuestWithAaron It still lost a lot of deeper meaning in the translation of course, but that's just an inevitability.
Since both games have the same words in Japanese Phrase (大いなる力 (translates to Great power)), there a secret inside Hyrule castle that there’s a design of a bird-like creature on the windows near the entrance that leads to the throne room.
Also, there is a Goddess Statue in the dungeon as Zelda begins to changed her appearance. That statue resembles the Goddess Statue from Skyward Sword.
It may be plausible that this version of the Kingdom of Hyrule in Echoes of Wisdom have remembered the events of Skyward Sword.
It could be that, although it's worth noting Nintendo's tendency for mere reference and easter egg placing, as shown with the Rito carvings on the walls of Hyrule Market Town in the HD remastered version of Twilight Princess. The loftwing-like decorations and Goddess Statue might just also be a reference for sheer reference's sake, devoid of any implications regarding the game's placement in the timeline.
Aaron, you are on a much higher level than other Zelda theorizers thanks to you probably being the only one who can look at the original Japanese and view it from that perspective rather than the cultural Anglo-biases that may shape the translations.
Truly, thank you so much for your kind words! You have completely made my day writing this comment. Thank you!
@QuestWithAaron I'm a little late with this question but where do the Tris fit in to all this? What sources were they inspired by? Do they have any Japanese Representation at all?
Before starting, I think the "before land and sky, there was only the void" is referring to the space that the world now occupies. Null referred to the Goddesses as if he knew of them, but since he consumed everything that materialized in the void, that'd mean the Goddesses came from elsewhere. They may have feared Null would decide to expand its territory.
As for Demise and the demon tribe, I think they were around back then too. They knew the Void as their sky, and when the Goddesses created the world to imprison Null? Well, every structure needs a foundation, and so the Old World was buried alive.
But aren't demons created by the evil inside mortals? The japanese script of Skyward Sword alludes to that during Demise's defeat speech, implying "jaki" (japanese for evil) would always create beings who Link and Hylia's descendants would be forced to fight for eternity. With no mortals around due to the goddesses not creating the universe yet, there's no source of jaki with which new demons are born, preventing Demise and his ilk from ever existing.
@@javiervasquez625 Within mortals, perhaps... but what about within Null and those who existed only to end up being consumed by it? We see some rather bizzare shapes and "forms" of demons back in Skyward Sword that never appear again (Scaldera, for instance), and Rauru the Zonai King of Light is shown in Tears of the Kingdom to have imprisoned quite a few Demons such as Colgera, Mucktorok, Queen Gibdo, and Marbled Gohma within the Lightroots of the underground. Perhaps this insatiable gluttonous desire to be the only thing in existence that Null had was what caused the first Demons to arise, while the other, non-demonic entities were caused by the severe imbalance and spontaneously crystallized out of it as Mu-no-sekai attempted to self-correct? And when Null was imprisoned, this led to a sudden spike in demons as his rage manifested, with Demise being one of those manifestations that ended up coming out on top?
@@kennyholmes5196 Regarding the creation and existence of demons, thanks to Aaron's video _"How Demise's Secret Origin Connects Skyward Sword & Breath of the Wild",_ it has always been my understanding that demons are a by-product of the very existence of jaki within the hearts of humans, which creates evil monsters and creatures as a result of said evil lurking within humanity itself. If it's the very existence of evil which creates demons, then that logic points at demons only coming into being after the Golden Goddesses created the Zelda universe and humans were already around to create demons through their evil. Needless to say, Aaron's video on Demise does a very good job analyzing the japanese script of Skyward Sword, and giving a few pointers to the conclusion i've laid down above.
I absolutely love the design of the Tris and I had no idea why until this video. They embody this concept of Mu you’re talking about; of not emptiness but an indefinite, an amorphous material, description, and association: not just a lack of being a concrete something but a lack of a lack in the first place. From this indefinite wellspring of potential, where anything can arise in concept or function.
The Tris themselves look formed or sculpted, taking shape itself or from a creative expression with the material. They look both like the familiar little art projects we made as kids while seeming otherworldly and divine in a sense, shaping their world as well as both made and maker. The Tris are in design and philosophy where playful imagination and profoundly wise spirituality go hand in hand.
The Tri's representing creative expression is a fantastic interpretation. The way you worded this was amazing and I completely agree with you.
Perhaps slightly off topic, but you reminded me: I think it's quite ironic how considering Null wants to convert everything to nothingness, its appearance not only resembles a Tri itself, but it also uses creation as a means to achieve its goal of nothingness.
So Null is more or less like a black hole, it sucks everything into, well nothing...
"Null" also means "Zero" in German
I really enjoyed this video, thnx Aaron!
Hey Doriot! Thank you, my friend!
The Still World is Néant (Void) in French. Demise is called Avatar du Néant (Avatar of the Void) in French. He came out of a crack. Was Demise just an Avatar of Null? Making Ganondorf related to Null? That would explain why Null made Echoes of Ganon.
The thing is Null can only create Echoes thanks to the Tri and they can only create things that already existed once, they cannot create new things out of nowhere.
The only way Null would copy Ganon is Because Ganon has potentially died and Null took over his remains to copy him - heck possibly the entire cataclysm caused by Null may be only because he managed to get somehow access to Ganon or his Remains, because only through him he can copy Demons, only through him he has authority over them and only through him he can create Boss Monsters as Echoes and use them to capture the Tris that would otherwise fix everything instantly
Is Null bound by the rules of time? Could he just pop open a rift in the past or future of EOW? I'm trying to figure out how he got Ganon's echo, also Demise was said to be a being outside of time so I feel like Null should be as well. Is there any indication in the Japanese about either of these 2 being outside of time?
So, would that mean that the goddesses got captured in this nothingness as soon as they departed the world after creating it, where the Triforce was left behind? Maybe the Trifoce being created was a result of the goddesses being trapped at the instant they departed the mortal realm. We never got the reason "why" the Triforce got created, just the fact that it did as soon as the goddesses left.
Also, I wonder how Demise relates to this. If Hylia was created by the goddesses, was Demise also created by them? Or was he created by Null? (later in the video you imply that he wasn't created by Null, nor the Demons) That'd imply that Demons are a result of the creation of the world, and not something that has existed prior. Although I remember it being mentioned that the Demons resent the goddesses painting the world over their chaos, so perhaps they are a manifestation or creation of Null to combat Hylia and the mortal realm, since he already had captured the goddesses. So, while Null and the goddesses existed first, Demise still remains the first manifestation of evil on the world to counteract the creation of the goddesses. (But, as you mentioned, even the concept of evil (or good) would cease if Null got his way. So, I am led to believe the demons are independent of Null and are a creation of the world itself, ergo also created by the goddesses (the natural result of the potential of the world being created with its laws of nature, giving rise to good and evil.))
Also did I miss it, or what is a Tri actually?
Guess the Golden Goddesses aren’t omnipotent if they can’t even escape from being trapped. Now the supposedly powers of the Triforce are coming into question when in prior games it was stated to be the divine relic of omnipotent power. Looks like Nintendo made an oppise or the lore is just specific to echoes and have no bigger meaning on the series as a whole.
I think Demise was "created" from Null like how Calamity was "created" from Ganondorf. Formed from a hate so strong it became its own entity with a life of its own.
Regarding the question of why, i've always assumed A Link between Worlds was the answer to that question, by showing what happens to the entire universe should the Triforce cease to exist: utter chaos as the very fabric of reality tears itself appart. The way i see it, the Triforce serves as a roman scale which keeps the entire Zelda universe in _balance,_ preventing reality from reverting into chaos without the guiding light left by Golden Goddesses for that very purpose.
Regarding the creation of demons, thanks to Aaron's video _"How Demise's Secret Origin Connects Skyward Sword & Breath of the Wild",_ it has always been my understanding that demons are a by-product of the very existence of evil (called jaki in japanese) within the hearts of humans, which creates evil monsters and creatures as a result of said evil lurking within humanity itself. If it's the very existence of evil which creates demons, then that logic points at demons only coming into being after the Golden Goddesses created the Zelda universe and humans were already around to create demons through their evil. Needless to say, Aaron's video on Demise does a very good job analyzing the japanese script of Skyward Sword, and giving a few pointers to the conclusion i've laid down above.
@@JuwanBuchanan My headcanon as to the Golden Goddesses's "impotence", is that when they are _seperate_ from one another, their powers are bound to physical limitations which only affect the world for as much as their respective essence allows them to. When they are together and using their combined power as *one* (eg: the Triforce), only then do the three women achieved omnipotence by merging their essences of Power, Wisdom and Courage. Basically, they're only omnipotent when they're together and not seperate from one another.
@@quillion3rdoption Yet, Echoes of Wisdom never shows or hints at Null's hatred having the power to _create_ demons, making a strong case for him not been the source of any demons, unlike say Ganondorf, Majora, Vaati and Malladus who are shown able to create monsters ex-nihilo by their sheer hatred and evil.
Wonderful as always! Thank you for making this!
the return of the king
Wait! It’s the second time RUclips didn’t notice me there is a new video. RUclips, let me support this channel as usual!!!
Great video as always! What Iike so much about them, it’s because you do more than just translation, you put things into context.
I feel like the creation lore behind the world’s creation is only specific to this Zelda game with Null and doesn’t bare any bigger significance to the entire continuity of Zelda as a whole, the timelines etc but this stuff is always fun and interesting to talk about. Does Null exist in other timelines or is it a godlike being that only exist in the timeline Echoes take place in? Only time will tell
Most lore in the series is already game-specific tbf. They usually only have bearing on other games if they're explicit and direct sequels.
Well, considering the game's implication for Null been an entity "beyond space and time", one could argue that Null's existence does in fact transcend the timelines themselves, allowing him to exist simultaneously throughout all timelines as a singular being. With that in mind, killing Null in the Echoes of Wisdom timeline might have killed Null across _all_ timelines.
That would be a scary feeling to think Null may be still around in either the current timeline (BOTW and TOTK), the child timeline, the adult timeline, or the downfall timeline.
Null exists in other timelines but the Tris do a good job of patching the rifts. Until this game.
CRUD! Now I need to finish the game so I can watch this. 🤣
BRB
I hadn't realised you haven't finished it yet! I thought the ending was great! Have you managed to get TotK done as well yet? ^^
@@QuestWithAaron Um...
No? 😅
I wonder if there is even deeper significance, seeing as how this is the first game where we play as Zelda. Sure, it _seems_ like Demise/Ganon/Ganondorf is the big bad of all the other titles, but maybe Ganondorf is just to Null what Link is to Hylia and the Three Goddesses? Link is the Champion of this World, Ganondorf is the Champion of the World of Null, and Zelda has been aware of this the whole time.
Ganondorf is more the type of Person that seeks conflict, he gets a stimulation from combat like everyone else would get from sex.
He is dedicated to combat and desires to turn the world into hell while Null wants to bring Oblivion.
And Null is apparently also very dependant on Ganon's Powers, since Null always failed to break free, yet now he suddenly can once he got the Ability to clone Ganon or mind control him (which wouldnt be that difficult since Ganon was a Mindless Brute in the Downfall Timeline
@Chris-gx1ei So it's more like Ganon/Demise/Ganondorf has his own thing going on, *but* maybe Null piggy-backs on Ganons initiative, give him the strength to do what he is already inclined towards. I like this. I imagine Ganon may not even be aware of Null, that he isn't even conscious of how much of his power is being bolstered by unseen Patrons that seek to undo the world through his unchecked ambition.
Just finished the game
That's fantastic to hear! What are your thoughts on the game?
@
Zelda does play differently from Link. I haven’t got her killed once, but I had a few close calls
@@chrispork1443 Yeah I think it was a little on the easy side, especially on normal mode with the ability to heal by conjuring up beds. I haven't played on hero-mode yet, so perhaps it might be worth a shot
My thoughts about Null being separate or connected to Demise is this: I believe Demise was created by Null "on accident", like how TotK Ganondorf "accidentally" created Calamity. Their respective hatreds took lives of their own and became separate from their origins.
Also, even though monsters CAN get swallowed by the Rifts, the "Light World" monsters can clearly still survive in it whereas Hylians, Zora, Gorons, etc. are "stilled." I think this indicates that the monsters have a "chaotic essence" that's tied to Null, the being of primordial chaos. Therefore Demise would have a "chaotic essence" too, even if he's unaware of it.
Null is incapable of creation, only destruction. It only gained the ability to create Echoes from the Tri it had devoured
@Jarock316 Yes, but Demise isn't an Echo, like how Calamity isn't a Gloom Spawn or Phantom Ganon. Null wouldn't know anything about how Demise came about, now would Demise know where he came from.
Null and demise are unrelated. Demons are born from the evil energy that lurks in the hearts of humans.
@@MajorasWrath1 I thought they're born from malice in general. And who would be more malicious than Null?
@@quillion3rdoption Once again, Null is the Void, not Malice.
Yes yes yes yes, Null is a game changer, i just wish the dialogue with other game characters wasnt so childish.
I agree.this has been an ongoing issue we had been having with American Nintendo since BOTW and TOTK. They changed the text and dialogue without respecting the original source or making the correct translation.
It's a game for little girls, of course it's going to be childish.
@@a.jthomas6132 It's been an issue since WW, really.
@@quillion3rdoption What really?
Fuck yea
What is nothink?
Hype
Im happy that IS NOT GANON OR GANONDORF AGAIN!!!! 👍👍👍