The END of the SD90s?
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- Once one of the largest, and one of the most powerful locomotives, the EMD SD90's days could be coming to a rapid end. Over 450 of these massive engines were built, but they had a number of issues...
In this video, we'll take a look at the current status, and fate, of the large SD9043 locomotives acquired by CP. Once thought to be part of a rebuild program, it now seems like these giants will now be facing the torch, vs seeing new life as an SD70ACu. We'll explore a bit of these locomotives, learn of their past, and talk about what the future likely has in store for them.
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Former UP mechanical employee here... the sd90s were notorious for frame cracks, also most of the units we had in storage were in need of major electrical repairs (electrical harness issues) to keep them "reliable". It is my guess that what you see here are the sd90s that are not worth being saved...
Great insight, and insider information on these engines! I had heard similar rumblings about these locomotives too, and mainly the cracked frame issue. Do you know what was the cause of the electrical issues? Did EMD cheap out the on their harness quality on these locomotives?
@SD457500 I not sure exactly. But I used to work with an electrician from Proviso. He told me that the main harness that connected to the cab electrical cabinet was the problem with the sd90s and later with the 70aces. It was either a pin issue where it plugged in or a wire chafing issue... He also told me that it was a huge job to replace that harness, and the easiest way was to do it when they'd go to Little Rock for a complete rebuild... I do remember hearing a joke that if you had a huge consist of locomotives, and you got an alarm bell on the leader, you at least knew where the problem loco was (the sd90!)
Any information on what the problems with the H engine were? I had contacts within the inland marine industry, and nobody really knew. Walking the back lot of National Maintenance in Hartford, Illinois, they had numerous H engines there with what I took to be UP locomotive road numbers spray painted on them.
@@BilgeDweller They were just extremely unreliable and failed often. The prime movers were not tested thoroughly and many deficiencies emerged during their use, which given how much horsepower each engine provided in a consist, losing 1 SD90H in a consist of two or three meant the entire train was fucked and underpowered if they were on a grade, stalling the train. They were just generally causing headaches that were more expensive than they were worth.
@@erict5234 Live on a division where some of these served out their last days in helper service. The amount of complaints I heard over the scanner was staggering. They use to run them in 5 unit sets mid train on Potash unit trains. Eventually they were all sidelined, and then disappeared.
"We have been trying to reach you about your locomotive's extended warrenty"
😡
I was employed as a locomotive engineer at the Soo Line/CP Rail system. Consequently, I got to operate the CP's SD90s back in their earlier days before they were taken out of service. You really noticed the size of these engines, versus a GE AC4400, especially when you walked along the catwalk on an SD90 while performing a daily inspection. Thanks for the update on the UP's SD90s!
Thank you, that's a great story I always wondered about the engineer on those massive locomotives . Living in the Northwest I used to see him on the up all the time back in their day. Thanks again
Thanks so much for the information great to have information about these massive locomotives. Thanks again
There’s actually still an H2 SD90 still here in the states, it’s owned by Knoxville locomotive works (KLWX 1998) and is repowered with a Cummins engine. It runs on the yadkin valley railroad.
i think that was ex-UP 8558 or8559.
And there's apparently some still in Australia, although they just have the carbodies of SD90MAC-Hs but have 710 engines.
And there's some in the Progress Rail lease fleet.
@@Silver_Turtle those are the 9043's not the macs.
@@rearspeaker6364 Before I made my previous post, I checked the Progress Rail lease fleet. They are the SD90MAC-H version.
0:05 DDA40X: Am I a joke to you?
Hence, “one of”
🙃
And yet the half a century old SD40s are still around in big numbers. Probably the best locomotive ever built. But as far as weight goes, some of Alcos biggest models topped 400,000 pounds as well.
I’m going to miss these beasts. I hope one gets saved.
In 2004 UP was using these on their coal trains. I caught them several times a week on my 150 mile run from Van Buren Arkansas to North Little Rock. The SD90s were absolute beasts. There were 3 of them assigned to a 17,000 ton coal train. Two up front plus a rear DPU. Leaving eastbound from the siding at Van Buren yard was 10mph until you were all out on the main. By that time you were pulling a 1 percent grade that ascended for 3 miles. We usually never got below 8 mph. These engines could pull! They rode like a bucking horse however. At 50 mph very uncomfortable ride. This may have contributed to the frame cracks. I'll always remember them down on their knees screaming wide open at 8 mph.
I’ve noticed over the last decade or so that most railroads are standardizing their fleets more. Settling on just 3 or 4 locomotive types and divesting or rebuilding the units that don’t fit those new rosters. Of course, this makes sense as it reduces costs for spare parts, maintenance and helps operational efficiency. And with a serious lack of diversity in locomotive manufacturers anymore I also see it as a problem. Kind of like how you have to look internationally to find passenger car manufacturers any more.
Doesn’t matter if it’s steam or diesel, it’s always sad to see locos lined up for the cutter’s torch.
Do YOU also whine and snivel and shed tears about the hundreds of millions of automobiles that have been sent to the "cutters torch" over the last century??????
Nice video! I've always loved the 90MACs, I'll miss seeing CP 3747 around up here, not to mention the long gone CP ones back in the 2000s.
Hi
I miss the SD80's. Occasionally one would wind up in the ohio valley around cincinnati, and they still had the 20-710.
SD70ACU in CP red looks so cool.
You’d be surprised about the warranty. UP’s AC4400 fleet are still under warranty (MSA contracts).
Imo...I honestly think both the SD90MACs and SD80MACs are some the best looking widecab locomotives EMD built (tall claim I know)...from the teardrop windows, huge radiators and the overall immense size of the thing puts most locomotives today to shame...
Nobody cares
@@trains2057 I do. Shut up and take your medication before commenting.
CPKC has been sending these 90MACs to Alton Steel in Granite City, IL for scrapping over the past several months, been fortunate enough to catch some of these on their final ride over the mainline
So sad. I loved running these motors.
Good video. I always liked the look of these big EMD's. Too bad they didn't last.
The UP pulled these SD90s out of storage in 2018 when I was working in West Colton yard. They were constantly in the roundhouse, and the roundhouse was full of SD90s for months. Probably the worst units on the UP roster. But they look cool!
These locomotives aren't 15 years old. They were built in 1998, so they're 26 years old. Even the newest SD9043s are 19 years old.
What I find amazing is how the high horsepower wars were ultimately stymied with these locos from EMD, and the GE 6000hp locos. They both lived a very short life, and the industry has settled on the 4000hp locos as standard equipment now.
KCS had 10 of these on a short term lease shortly after UP gave up on them. They were a maintenance nightmare. And spent more time on the deadline in Shreveport.
I wonder how many cans of spray paint they went though doing those markings...
I made a lot of money running those things on unit grain trains. The hotplate was always a welcomed perk.
It would be great to see one go to a railroad museum
Nothing like a nice "rattle can" custom paint job......🤔🙄
Self inflicted grafitti
Back on the day 2816 was on display in KC at knocke yard there were some of the sd90macs at the fuel racks now with black CP patches but the UP still showing on the sides
Hope one of the original SD90MACs get preserved
There used to be a bunch here in Nampa Idaho on the UP, but 2 years ago, they were presumed to go to scrap.
Fuuuuu. I wish I would have gotten into Rail fanning sooner. I live in Caldwell.
Oh my goodness I saw all those there! I didn't know that they all where going to scrap, otherwise I would've gotten a better look at them and some better pictures. I'm not out that way all that often though.
@@NSaw1 ruclips.net/video/PKOOhcbaU9Y/видео.htmlsi=_Q9eaXOJMWTP4Sg4
Here's a video of when there had returned for a few weeks just before moving closer to their end.
Used to be an intern for UP and from my understanding was they had a strong preference for GEs over EMDs for mainline operations. I took a tour of their rail yard in North Platte and saw a lot of SD90s over GEs. This made a lot of sense haha
A bit of correction for the statement at 04:55 :
The first batch of SD90MAC-H featured the same kind of nose as SD9043MAC. The only thing that distinguished both variants was the engine hood roof of the H-model was sloped, while the 9043 had a boxy roof.
I appreciate the clarity on these, and the explanation. I was always under the thought that the MAC-Hs had the notch nose. Thank you for the information!
@@SD457500 I also added a correction: engine hood roof, not the cab roof
I rode on these engines when I was new. They rode rough and had less than ideal reliability.
This is great storytelling
Well that just made me depressed .. I hope that at least one of the units is preserved
Very good video Douglas! Always pretty good stuff to see :)
Another breaking it friend 🚂🔝👍🏼
Great video 👍🏻😎 love the macs 👍🏻😊
A lot of them where rebuilt SD70ACUs in NS and CP
There are two videos showing quite a number of them several months apart go to Mighty River recycling which is the firm that bought them and is cutting them up in Alton IL and they will be melted down in the adjacent steel mill
Can you please talk about Union Pacific GP15-1 unit 615 next???
or the gp38's used on donner summit in the winter....
Maybe not for all rail fans but an explanation of the financial side of these locomotives would be interesting. I am sure that when the SD90 s were new they were some of the most expensive locomotives of the modern era. Most large capital investments have a 25 year deprecation schedule with a 25% scrap value at the end These were not following that path and CP must have gotten them for scrap value if they were able to scrap them. Interesting to know the behind scenes of "Who pays the butchers bill!'
Australian companies would have gladly purchased some of these loco's secondhand, however, they are too heavy for our main line operations. Great video and excellent information in the narration.
Pilbara Rail companies rail could take the axle load.
They could certainly do with extra units where I work, but alas they insist on G.E. tech..😢
@@billsbunts Do they plan to use 50 t axle load?
@@gsf_ryder
The locomotive axle load is approximately 32 ton which our 68kg rail has the capacity.
Our GE AC4400s ars are slightly heavier
I think you mean that Australian companies *wouldn't* have gladly purchased some of these locos secondhand, because they are too heavy for your mainline operations.
@@beeble2003
Australian railroads in general yes..but in the Pilbara of Western Australia, the 4 major mining companies only use U.S. Locomotive power whether they be EMDs or GEs
Awesome Video👍👍🙏
The Soo Line had a track that ran near my elementary school, so I’ve always had a soft spot for them, and by extension CP rail, but man CP really has a flair for half-assing their paint jobs, don’t they?
the ones that are left are sd9043's the ones with the 710 engine installed in them not a true Mac-h or Mac-H2. UP returned all the H,andH2's to EMD in 2008. Knoxville loco works 1998 is the shell of a H2, with a Cummins QSK95 engine in it.
"the ones that are left are sd9043's the ones with the 710 engine installed in them not a true Mac-h or Mac-H2."
Yes, that's what he says in the video...
@@beeble2003 never turned the audio on.......
5:03 AFAIK some still operate in Australia's iron Ore Region. with some of the H variants being converted into SD9043AC's
All were scrapped a couple years back
@@Amigafur that's FMG, and they bought some sd70Ace's after that, and just bought some GE's too.
@@Amigafurnope, 901 -909 are still onsite parked up, 901 & 902 might return to service for a little bit longer.
Glad I got my pix of them in service 👍
I was never a fan of the sd90s but it is really sad that there going to be retired soon
The INRD parked theirs this time last year.
it would be good if you could tell us whats going to replace these trains what future trains will be taking there spot.
Great idea when I do another of these videos in the future! Thanks for the suggestion!
That's curious how these big brutes with their originally intended 265H 6000 Hp engines (and also GEs AC6000's, and also EMD SD80Mac,s) did not find preference with North Anerican Railroads, that seem to have settled on the 4300 to 4400 Hp power standard. If one wants to find 'Brutes' on needs to go South to see the outcome of this 1st generation; Brazil. Over there one CSN find SD80ACEs and ES58ACs with ultraheavy trains (one Railroad there operates trains that can weight 50.000 metric Tons, usually with 5 locomotives in DPU).
Actually,all surviving 29 SD80MAC's managed to remain in usage for nearly 25 years under Norfolk Southern until emissions regulations,mainteance,and funding became immense to keep any of them on the roster. A long time ago,one of them had it's frame fractured in a derailment so it was scrapped,this was back when CSX owned 13 of them after the Conrail split before doing the trade deal with Norfolk Southern. Unlike the SD90MAC's,SD90MAC-H's,and AC6000CW's the SD80MAC's actually retain the title of being the most reliable units with the highest horsepower from a singular prime mover. It just so happened that Conrail was the only railroad to make purchases. The CNW was actually in the process to get 6 SD80MAC's but unforunately the Union Pacific merge occured and the orders were discontinued since they were already receiving large numbers of AC6000CW's (Which I know later on they regretted). Half of the SD80MAC's were scrapped at PRLX but others still remain in storage. 6 SD80MAC's were acquired by Canadian Pacific to be used as parts donors when the SD70ACU rebuild program was ongoing. Union Pacific rebuilt the AC6000CW's as C44ACM's while CSX sold all of their CW60AC's to PRLX in order to evade taxes and cut down costs. Most of those units were derated as CW44-6's,CW44AH's,or CW46AC's. Union Pacific scrapped or sold all of their SD90MAC's & SD90MAC-H's including the SD9043MAC's in later years after being in storage. 110 units became SD70ACU's by Norfolk Southern with nowadays only 45 units remaining and the other 65 units with PRLX are being scrapped. Canadian Pacific only has 30 SD70ACU's but have been scrapping the remainder of their SD9043MAC fleet including the 39 units that they bought from Union Pacific.
Reminds me the old DD's
Cool story bro
They probably will be stripped for reusable components, like trucks, traction motors, and engines before scrapping.
Funny. I was just seeing a listing for one of these in HO scale on Amazon. I think I may just go ahead and order the model.
AC6000
The repainting job is was haphazardly done poor effort from CP.
The ns acus were decent engines for the short time they lasted but unfortunately ns wouldn't spend good money on the rebuilds. They kept the same unoverhauled combos and everything under the hood. Only thing they really got the acu treatment was the majority of the electrical cabinet and a new cab. Only a very small few remain. The rest were sold for scrap after 2 years, they ran longer still in yellow as unrebuilt 9043s.
aw man, i really liked these things, what a shame
I wonder if any SD80 MAC'S are still in revenue service? They look very similar to the SD90. I know CSX and NS sold theirs many years ago. I really like the looks of the EMD SD70ACE ACU and M-2 all the way around but it seems as though GE is the preferred choice of locomotive. I believe 4 of the class 1's are having units rebuilt by Wabtech.
No SD80s are in service anymore. NS sold off all of them. 24 went to Progress Rail and 6 to CP. All of the Progress ones were scrapped, the CP ones are used to maintain their fleet of SD70ACUs. I don’t know the status of the CP SD80s right now.
@@citxsd70m-2I received an email from the Conrail Historical Society and sadly the SD80MACs are no more...
Damn that sucks I was hoping at least one of the CPKC ones would have possibly had a chance of getting preserved
@@CSXincyRailfan dang that sucks…if only EMD accepted the CNW’s initial order of SD80s, we probably could have SD80s running into today with UP.
@@citxsd70m-2
I doubt if you would have seen any SD 80’s in UP colors if that’s what you meant. They got rid of all of their SD 45’s acquired in the SP merger as soon as they could after the merger. If they were kept, they had 16-645 engines installed and were SD 40’s from then on. Now some of them are slugs mated to an SD 40-N for yard service.
Put two of Union Pacific SD90s one in arizona railway museum another pacific southwest railway museum
4:51 don’t know why it looks a lot like the SD70ACe/AH
The Aces used a modified 90 car body.
*Sounded like a SD40-2 prime mover throughout this video? Or was that just for sound effect? **6:30*
That was due to an SD40-2 being right behind me in Union Pacific's Belt Yard. It was about to take YSP68 over to Western Ave Yard. Thanks for the comment, and watching!
What happened to the EMD’S 20 cylinder power plants?
In which application? The V20 645s? Or 710s? I know a decent amount of 710s are used for marine applications all over the world.
I believe that to 645 locomotive engines.
Why wou[d CP buy them just to scrap? suspect there will be some parts harvesting before the torches are lit.
They changed their mind? Because the situation changed? Because the merger with KCS changed their locomotive requirements and availablility?
Nice video Douglas! I have to wonder why CP spends money to purchase these engines only to send them to scrap?
They changed their mind? Because the situation changed? Because the merger with KCS changed their locomotive requirements and availablility?
Parts sources for existing units. They got all of the RTO parts they wanted/needed off of them and scrapped the rest because the frames were cracked on most, if not all of them.
Who do you call when you need a lot of locomotives moved? The railroad, of course!
Just let one be preserved at least if the rest are gonna be scrapped.
whats the reason for the SD90MAC-H failing?
Issues with the engine and frame, among others.
I wonder 🤔 if they save the bells 🔔 and air horns before scrapping the locomotives ??!!
Yes,they are nice locomotive but have issue.cp rail many years ago have bunch park odgen shop calgary due electrical and some frame crack yes imagine weight on this.sad gone.😮
5:11, more like 20/25 years ago.
26, in fact -- built in 1998.
Appreciate the correction! My mind still thinks that 2000 was 10 years ago...not 24. :/
@@SD457500 😂🤣 It's alright. I'm just as guilty as you are.
👍
wish I could get #8444
Excuse my ignorance, but is there really much difference between an SD70MAC and an SD9043MAC?
Yes. The 90MAC is longer, has bigger radiators, bigger fuel tank, is heavier. The problem was that none of that was justified vs a 70MAC which got better fuel economy.
@@averageguy7136 And there's a former UP maintenance guy who's commented that the 8ft-longer frame of the SD90 variants was prone to cracking. Basically, the SD9043 is an SD70 in a longer, heavier locomotive. The only point of them was that they were going to be re-engined with the proper SD90 engine once EMD sorted out its reliability issues. But they never did, so UP was left with 400 SD70-but-worse locomotives.
Yes this is the end of SD90's.
Preserved
Would like to see all these compensator pickups scrapped , not useful locomotives
SD90’s I can care less about. The SD80’s however I pretty sure had nothing wrong with them, however I’m pretty sure the railroads didn’t like 20 Cylinder engines after the failure of the AC6000’s and SD90’s.
Hope one gets preservative
Hope they scrap them on RUclips live
@@braytinfriedman8870 bruh
1:28 Ancient riveted Hopper cars still in service?
Crikey, seems like they were a massive waste of money. Definitely not a case of “newer is better”!
Kinda like the SD70 M-2. NS didn't keep theirs long before selling them.
Not really a waste at the time. Arbitrary environmental regulations came along and did in the otherwise superior EMD prime mover. That's why we see so many garbaGE locos on the class 1s.
@@wesw9586 EMD was the first with an AC locomotive, GE just made theirs better. GE's 6 inverters were better then EMD's 2 inverters, without the ability to cut out individual traction motors on each inverter.
@@freedomfan4272 but, there still in use on other railroads.
@@rearspeaker6364 I'm talkin' prime movers. The diesel that turns the generators. EMD has always used a 2 stroke design that makes more power per displacement but by design burns some oil and runs "dirtier" than the weaker 4 strokes used by GE. Besides, there are plenty of a1a trucks on GE stuff that makes them inferior as low speed freight engines so that's not exactly a win for GE either. If it wasn't for the EPA trying to rule the world, EMD would still be number one.
Hopefully some graffiti writers go and make a nicer looking CP logo…. Or something…. To cover that nasty black paint up
RIP unreliable locomotives
Too big to be efficient.
I hate it when they just spray paint over it. At least make a small template and square it up. It's just so sloppy and so indicative of the railroad industry as a whole. I mean, with the effort shown here, it would be better just to invite some talented art crimes graf artists to do them up with Canadian themes.
OK, odd question here. Why not send these in for refurbishment/repair/overhaul, and then ship them over to Ukraine as a part of an aid deal, that in turn would have the US government dump money into the US economy, to replace these trains, with modern, better, more efficient, less polluting models?
Would these work on Ukraine tracks?
Thoughts?
Because you have aspergers
Typically, European railways use a smaller "loading gauge" that limits how big the train can be above the tracks.
Most of Ukraine's railways are 5ft gauge, so they'd need regauging, which might be an issue. But a bigger issue would be the axle loading. Very few railways around the world are built to take a 207-ton six-axle locomotive. And even if it works out physically, there are still huge problems. Primarily, why would Ukraine want 25-year-old locomotives that the US railroads think are not fit for purpose? Second, you think Congress is going to authorize that purchase?
@@beeble2003Estonia did get GE C30-7s and C36-7s from America 20 years ago. Most of the C36-7s in Estonia have been scrapped recently
It’d be interesting if Europe committed to re-gauging and upgrading their rails, to use bigger trains, AND to lockout Russian trains from using them.
Also, congress might go along with a pro-train president to authorize, if the jobs created benefited their districts, and constituents.
Plus, isn’t Ukraine currently using a bunch of OLD Russian train on their rails? Our older trains might actually be an improvement for them. Maybe not these ones, but what about other US trains that could be refurbished and sent over there, if the gauge issue was able to be addressed?
Boy those sucked
I have heard very little positive things about these units. Thanks for watching!
Good Riddance if you ask me. These units are probably the worst Diesel Electric Locomotives ever produced and they put the final nail in the coffin for EMD's business...
I think you're confusing these with the "pure" 6,000hp SD90MACs that were complete pieces of shit. These 90/43MACs ran for 20+ years.
@@anb7408 No I'm not, even with 4300 Horsepower these units were just so awful. The only reason they lasted as long as they did is their wasn't anything sufficient enough to replace them until a few years ago.
@@anb7408 Yeah but the only point of the 9043s was to reengine them as 90MACs. Since that never went through, they were just longer and heavier SD70s, and there's a UP maintenance guy who's commented that the long frame was prone to cracking.
@@beeble2003 There was other things besides the frame cracking. The SD9043's were known for having severe stability problems, with the locomotives violently swaying.
Sd90’s were garbage anyways lol but they looked nice and i’ll miss them
Worst engine I was ever on.
One of the most overrated Locomotives ever built. IMHO
On a trip to hometown Altoona Pa. I saw several in the Juniata shop yards. 2012-2015 time frame….
these are my favorite locomotives along with the ACE’s and the 80MAC’s
Tell us even more
Hey it sad to see those SD 90 s going by the way side it seems like when they first came out back in the late 1990 s I thought these would catch on with all Railroads in the USA but I was wrong it's like wants they came out in the late 1990 s to the mid 2000 s they just simply just dropped off the radar screen and not to be seen again
I recently acquired the original K3HA off of 8052. So, she may already be long scrapped, but her voice at least lives on.