I wish that the Pea Pod thing would count as one single plant, and not theup to five you can put in there. It's an interesting plant, but I almost never use it, and I'd use it much more often in those levels.
It's just a bad plant in general, even in conveyer levels it takes too long and it's too expensive to be able to stack them up to like 4 or 5 in order to get the value. It really should at least get some kind of buff for the amount of heads it has like little bit faster fire rate or increased toughness.
I think a lot of peoples issue with "don't lose X plants" might just come from Big Wave Beach 28. Because Big Wave Beach's entire strategy revolves around sacrificing plants you're willing to lose by putting them in the front lines.
Dont get me stated on dreadful Day 15 and Day 31 of BWB where theres endangered Potato Mines and Quacodiles respectively the latter of which gets triggered by hooks causing you to lose immediately in first seconds of the level, and its not fun replaying the same level only to lose to Fisherman, yes they arent as overpowered as Wizard or Octo Zombies but still should never be underestimated
I kinda like somewhat easy Last Stands as they let you experiment with high cost or just plain bad plants; Pirate seas 22 is one of my most played levels just to see which plants can make it, make it without losing one, etc.
Yeah, I have the opposite opinion on last stand vs. spend x sun than him, but it mostly comes down to level design. The last stand levels often have a good amount of sun you can spend, so you can try out funny or stupid plant compositions, and the long recharge/costly plants finallyy have a place they can shine. On the opposite, spend x sun levels often have idiotically low requirements and are absolutely miserable because they basically completely restrict you to very specific plants (a.k.a. all the costless ones and 1-2 super cheap ones) and you still have to build up the board with a bunch of shit plants you had little say in it. Also, the fact that it's like, the one objective you can just lose completely on accident because they fixed it for x amount of plants not this one makes this just completely aggravating.
The use less sun than X amount is the worst objective IMO solely for the fact that you can pass the threshold by accident, like you said it could be a good objective but it’s glaring issue has made me fail the most
The "don't spend sun for X seconds" has baited me _twice_ in mods (maybe in the same level) because I forgot both times that it doesn't have to be at the beginning of the level, just don't do it for some time within the level. I thought that you had to use plants like Iceberg (free stuff) to deal with the zombies before you could start using sun.
I feel like survive with most plants picked is actually better than all plants picked from a casual standpoint, because it can be annoying and a little jarring if you plan on using your own strategy and you’re suddenly forced to use something different and sometimes boring.
The thing is, survive with most plants does not change your gameplay at all. You just make a smaller version of the strategy you were using. The whole game (except for two worlds) is already designed for casuals, we didn't need more objectives for casuals, it's supposed to be balanced. People mostly spam the same single strat through out all of their playthrough, so forcing them to use a completely different strategy that still works with the level is great!
@@therealelement75 "Oh no, I can't spam the same strategy I used throught the whole game!" Just get good. If you only are able to play 7 plants and nothing else, you need to play a little more.
I actually kinda liked that one level in vanilla where dinosaurs are constantly kicking zombies over the flower line and you're given primal peashooters to work with so you have to constantly assess how well they are doing and control that so they can't knock zombies past the flower line *from the back.*
I actually like don't lose more than x plants, as long as the level doesn't include too many insta kill zombies, so it actually encourages walls and discourages instas.
I feel they could have been more creative with some of the passive objectives. Like the produces x sun was a huge missed opportunity. What if it was produces x sun in order for the level to end. The longer the level goes on the harder it gets until it gets to difficult for the average player.
Or maybe they could make an actually hard amout of sun, cuz 6k sun isn't very hard to achieve. They could maybe do a modifier that makes zombies take damage with time or maybe just use zombies that self destruct, that way stalling wouldn't work
I love last stands. Easily my favorite stage type. My opinion of them only lowered when I dedicated my life to shadow plants, and I still like them anyway. I'm not sure why sun bombs and the like don't count for this video(are they mini games?), but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the gimmick obstacle type conditions next.
I feel like all of the objectives have enough to them to be able to make a level really interesting but they just choose not to put in the work. I just thought up a really interesting endangered plant level idea for pirate seas. Lanes 1 3 and 5 have planks and an endangered spikeweed one tile back from the planks, barrel rollers spawn a lot and you have to stop them from rolling them over, but in the unplanked lanes theres endangered garlics that will redirect rope swing zombies into the main lanes cluttering them up making it harder to deal with the barrel rollers. But theres enough room for strategy due to the endangered plants having an empty tile in front of them. Honestly, I kinda wish I could help come up with ideas for challenge levels in a mod or something.
Seems like a fun idea, but there’s one really easy solution to the Spikeweeds. Just put a Spikerock in front of them. They will tank most hits from the barrel rollers. Also I wish Garlic wasn’t such a bad plant.
somehow Last stand is my most favorite mode It's close to sandbox mode in my eyes and I enjoy just watching new plant crushing zombie without having to spend time on sun part
@@lol1013 i think it could work if like lets say dont lose more than levels were based off levels that dont really require you to use instants, sometimes they're just normal levels for some reason so that does nothing but limit your choices
No? "Don't spend more than __" is just slow last stand, like Creepz said in the video. It discourages sun production since sun producers become useless after you hit the limit. "Don't plant more than __" is made so you use heavier and more expensive plants instead of spamming cheaper plants like lightning reed. And "Don't lose more than __" is there to make you not insta spam, like most people do through most levels. One of my favorite plants is iceberg lettuce and I still love that objective because it forces me to get a different early game that isn't "stall one zombie while I get double sun producer)
endangered plants has the highest highs but man it can feel frustrating i didnt really notice the insanely good ways of using it until you pointed them out lol so thanks? edit: also, you should include the mod name of the mod you’re playing in the bg in the corner
Random thoughts no-one will read: - I had no idea mold colonies could be more interesting than "Hahah you lose the back of your lawn," the modded applications are waaaaay cooler than anything the unmodded game ever does - Collect X Sun would be marginally more interesting if the level instawon when you got the sun, as opposed to actually having to finish the rest of it - Flower Line should have the lawnmowers at the flower line for a one-time save, as opposed to where they do nothing - Destroy X Grid Items would be fun if a) all X were on the map at game start (gravestones?) and b) destroying all of them instawon the level
I think it would be funny to have a level where you have a flower line and the last flag is IMPOSSIBLE to beat, so you need to use knockbacks, plants that can't be eaten like spikeweed or infi-nut or something else that can make the zombies go through the flowers and use the lawnmowers to kill the impossible wave.
I definitely agree that the "don't lose more than x plants" objectives can be really interesting. The main problem is those times when you die to unfair luck. I think the best way to designing levels with this objective is to simply not include any zombies with insta-kill abilities (possible exception for non-mecha gargantuars). Without the nonsense insta-kills taking away your plants with you having little to no way to resist them then it's pretty fun. I'd say that this objective is the one most reliant upon level design. As you mentioned at the end, any objective can be interesting if the level is designed to match it, but some require more work than others and some have a larger range from good to bad. I think that this objective has the largest good/bad range of all of them due to how easy it is to make either an interesting level that blocks instas and plant selling or Big Wave Beach Day 28.
Yeah. I think that the best way to make a level based on that objective is to use zombies with low dps. No instakills, no chickens, no newspapers, imps and similars. Just slow/defensive zombeis. Afterall, the main gimmick of that objective is that you don't have access to instakills, so having to deal with bucketheads without using instas.
I hate endangered plants solely because of The Old Queens rematch in Eclise. Four endangered sunflowers on minecarts. IN COLUMN EIGHT. WITH BARREL ROLLERS. Holy shit that level sucked ass. Another problem is in Reflourished, where they nerf plants in locked n' loaded levels and then don't nerf the levels alongside them... some of them are frustrating, rng based, and one is straight up impossible without powerups.
Modern Day Level 16 is impossible in Reflourished without power ups or insane luck. How did they not realize that they should rebalance vanilla levels?
@@nc7718 I don't think any of the plants from either of those levels got nerfed (Sun-Shroom is the only one that comes to mind). How did you find them more difficult?
i honestly think the objectives just all suck. i want to play the game with my own restrictions. they’re just frustrating because they’re annoying and don’t feel interesting. to me, they’re not a challenge, they’re just an artificial difficulty increase.
You completely missed limited seed bank stuff? That’s half the fun of ‘plant chosen’ levels that can really force your hand with more flexibility than L&L levels.
What I hate is the combination of objectives. Particularly the sheet Trample the flowers, Mold colonies AND the conveyor belt. The lunar New year piñata is the worst where the winning condition is dependent on the RNG of Plant food and Locations of the Bucket head type Zombies where you can use PF on a Bok choy most effectively.
objectives are neat but I still prefer the OG PvZ2 1.0 way of handling them, where they were optional side quests to earn stars. PvZ2 1.0 had a lot of issues but that was honestly pretty neat.
if it;s anything to note the way pvz2 china works is with a close to same system basically a level has 2 versions, a normal version and a hard version in the hard version there are 3 stars you can earn which you get from completing a objective think getting a start from having spent lessthan 2200 sun this one I haven't seen in international pvz2 but another one is have more than x amount of plants on the lawn when you beat the level (to block the strat of just using lawnmowers on the final wave making you need to clear it out legitimately) if I recall correctly from what I have read from comment sections is the stars you earn let you unlock the zomboss levels at the end of the world, (and the other one I have seen is you know a battle pass progression system, so in "Secret Realms" they have that system (where when you reach star milestones you will unlock a reward with a free path and a payed path, with a big reward if you get all the stars) I have made a big comment but I hope this come out understandable
Big wave and dark ages(or anything where zombies can trap plants) can have cheesable endangered plant objectives because you could just have all the endangered plants sheepified or trapped in an octopus, they won’t be eaten too
Weird that you want the "Don't spend more than X sun" objective to have higher sun spending thresholds when you don't like the "Never have more than X plants" objective because vanilla gives you too forgiving of a threshold. Which is it? Do you want your objectives to give you a flexible threshold that lets you plant a lot or do you want them to be limiting enough to challenge you? Because you criticized one clone of the same objective for being too hard and then criticized the other clone of that objective for being too easy.
For the endangered plants, i find it ok but the its shot way down as most levels place them in the first 4 rows and spam instakill zombies and stuff on it, making the objective good, but the levels with it horrible
You never mentioned what a “Last Stand” is, and it’s very confusing. You actually didn’t explain quite a few of the objectives. I guess that’s fair - this channel seems to be more aimed towards people more familiar with pvz2.
@@Only4two100bucks but it’s not hard to say “alright so Last Stand is an objective where you blah blah blah” it would take like 30 seconds, would pad out the video a little longer which is typically a good thing, and drastically increase the reach of the video - a lot more people would be able to watch it and still enjoy it. not everyone has a computer to play modded pvz2, or the patience to trudge through vanilla.
I played 2 much pvz china version nowadays where the don't lose plant keep screwing me over and over made me really hate that thing cus their special lvl have mechanic to kill your stuff really easily (and in the special lvl all objective can kill u cus it's stupid even producing sun,usually 8k and other crap and other special conditions as well)
I think manual use plants (coconut cannon, banana launcher, not magnifying grass) could help improve conditions whose goal is “not to play the game” (last stand, don’t spend sun for x seconds, ect), because it gives you something more to do during the waiting period, making it feel like you’re actually playing the game.
I disagree with Last Stand, because it really makes you think of what you should use for your defense before the zombies arrive. You don't have to grind out sun in Last Stand levels.
I think «Produce X Sun» could be wayyy better when A. You made final wave spawn zombie below the lawn like in altverz B. You need to SAVE the sun for the finale of level, this would be perfect objective with this issues!
Why weren't conveyors on the tier list? Do you consider them minigames? Edit: I would personally put no lawnmower levels at least b. After all, you said that pvz2 is a casual game, and I agree. I think they're a neat way to make the game more challenging for a casual audience without it feeling unfair ever, if you let the zombies reach the end you lose, nothing to save you this time. The thing that stops them from going any higher is the fact that it's only use I can think of in vanilla is Garg levels which are easy by default because they are conveyor levels in vanilla. Of course this is still my opinion and people are free to disagree with it if they want to.
I just had an interesting idea when watching the defeat x zombies part. What if instead of that it was a whole level thing where you had to defeat a zombie every x seconds. That would actually weaken stallers, pretty much the meta of pvz2. You could also use gargs or other strong zombies to make it feel more frantic rather than just weakening stallers, as you'd have to pick off weaker zombies to stall for time to kill the larger threats.
The one thing that really irritates me about objective levels is that there is no distinction between objective levels and standard levels from the world menu. I don’t want to have to memorize what levels are regular levels just so I can play a level without being limited by plants lost, sun spent, plants on the lawn, etc.
Survive for X seconds sounds like you could do something really different, like a unbeatable level where damage is obsolete and you have to do everything you got to stall,
"Defeat X type of Zombies" Ok, fair enough. "Defeat Cardio 5 times" or "Defeat Ceasar Zombie 2 times" Why those 2 have so much hp to the point that they're not going to be defeated more than once
Eclise taught me to hate objective levels, I'd much rather have fun with the same old boring strategy than get forced into a level with BS mechanics of losing. Ever since then I've grown to despise objective based levels
12:48 I once lost "More than X plants level" because my stupid ass thought it was a good idea to use Hazelnut Witch. So she ended up creating a bunch of puffshrooms that made me lost because it exceeded the given plant limit
12:43 I mistakenly thought that it was possible to lose the Never Have More Than X Plants objective using Holly Barrier, Spore-shroom, or Witch Hazel. Holly Barrier's leaf barriers count as plants for the objective, but thanks to your remark I learned that the new plants simply don't spawn above the maximum
I don't really like how you viewed ''survive without mowers'' mainly because if you are a casual player [pvz 2's target audience] it will actually be an interesting threat which multiple players may struggle with and also survive without mowers can be used creatively such as using zombies that ignore plants like balloon and fly zombie and other zombies such as glitter zombie that makes all the zombies behind her immortal can also cause panic if they have a huge hoard behind them with last stand and spend less than X sun i disagree with you since i love last stand since strategizing is my favourite part of pvz while spend less than X sun annoys me since i almost always lose since the only plant i need to use to win is 25 sun more than i can spend
I would just like to say it's great seeing this community still alive and well. I came back to the series after seeing Garden Warfare on Xbox and trying it out. It brought me back to PvZ 1 and 2 to play again. One more thing however before I leave. More Masterclass style videos like Sun Producers? It helped my gameplay in an extreme way and more like it would be great.
How on earth is the enjoyment level of endangered plant S those are the only levels I would purchase extra sun with gems to pass bc it's a living hell especially if the endangered plants are weak af Well maybe it's bc I use Chinese version
The biggest reason I hate the "Don't lose more than X plants" level is that I CAN'T SHOVEL, like in many instances I put a cheap attacking plant in the back until I get more sun to plant a melon or something (since I can't rely on instas and most walls take very long times to recharge) but since shoveling counts as losing a plant it in these levels it instantly makes the level unbearable for me
Endangered plants, while fun, most of the time is just hell. It's so annoying whenever the game makes it like a lettuce iceberg or a crocodile, it doesn't give you enough time to react which is just stupid.
I absolutely adore the music in these videos! As someone who finds OMORI soundtracks insanely underrated and unknown, I always get excited when I hear em in the vid lol.
i thought walking on the flower line with spikeweed was a feature...like a cool level concept would be where you use spikeweed but there are a bunch of zombies that can remove it like barrel
Hey, this is just some critique from a fan, but I think you should start announcing the title of the new category you're speaking on verbally in the video. I often listen to RUclips videos at work, and can't always dig my phone out of my pocket to read what thing you're speaking on next -- sometimes the transitions were so subtle that I didn't even KNOW you had moved onto a new subject. So, yeah. Saying the objective out loud and then rating it would be helpful. The video essay is mostly audio, anyways, so it would just make sense.
I'm pretty sure that some of the objectives also had an instant-loss condition in the old times. You could actually plant on the Mold Colonies accidentaly and you could accidentally go over the Never have more than x plants limit as well. Yes, you could just simply put a plant on a mold and straight up lose the level LOL
I absolutely dispise Endangered plants. Especially when the plant is completely useless or outright suicidal, and the level is flodded with things that instakill that plant, no it is horrendous and bellow god damn F.
i think the flower line would benefit from being designed more like mowers, where you instead get a bonus from protecting them maybe each flower tile is a piece of the ending bonus, and you only immediately lose if all the flowers are trampled, do even only one flower remaining is fine (you're probs not gonna get the bonus for that tho)
i agree with most things aside from sun timer and spend no more than X, id put no more than X in A just because i really like the pressure you can get from it, and i personally never lose to it accidentaly (hasnt happend to me in my *insert long time* of playing this game lol, but i understand the people that do complain about it). Sun Timer is B for me because i really like the quick desition making you have to do for it, "do i want to stay with this defense for a while or do i want to keep planting more stuff", always was a fan of that to be honest. Good vid man, cheers.
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
I wish that the Pea Pod thing would count as one single plant, and not theup to five you can put in there. It's an interesting plant, but I almost never use it, and I'd use it much more often in those levels.
which is dumb that it counts as 5 because ultomato another plant that has the stacking gimmick but it still only counts as 1 when stacked
@@KrazeemSB2 Because it's a seedium plant 🤓
@@MikhailAurellio And I guess they never realized the plant would be used in the beat the level with only x amount of plants
It's just a bad plant in general, even in conveyer levels it takes too long and it's too expensive to be able to stack them up to like 4 or 5 in order to get the value. It really should at least get some kind of buff for the amount of heads it has like little bit faster fire rate or increased toughness.
@@SecureBirch410 Yeah; the only conveyor they truly work in are ones with minecarts, or maybe the ice/arrow tiles that push zombies into another lane.
It's almost as if this tier list is somewhat subjective for it states the creator's opinion. I doubt Creepz would pull such a trick on us, however...
shhhhhhhh
Lol
@@Creeps20 where are the Sun Bomb levels you coward
@@ericwijaya2119 far future
@@ericwijaya2119 no minigames because those aren't real objectives
The title needs a few more adjectives
Your insides will be splattered across the pavement
Objectively more adjectives, you could say
"An objectively objective tier list on objectives that is objective objectively"
An objective objectively objective tier list objectively on objectively objective objectives
Nah, It needs more nouns
Endangered plant levels have produced one of my underrated most frustrating levels in the game, big wave beach 15
Isnt that the one that gets cheesed by chard guard?
That level is absolutely nothing compared to BWB 30 lol
@@Juli_is_Online don't care, I found it irritating
Well i beat that level with "Only using 150 sun cost plants or more" challenge though.
@@MikhailAurellio 👍
PVZ player: "I hate spend less than X sun!"
Bloons Player: "I hate half cash!"
*picture of a peashooter and monkey kissing*
*🤨🏳️🌈❔*
@Jack Saint Livestreams Archive @REPLA_ACE oh hey I recognize you from the WHY PVZ DIED comments section
@@Jack_Saint_Archive 🏳️🌈
@@Jack_Saint_Archive🏳️🌈💕
We really do hate half cash though, ravine on chimps vs half cash logs
I think a lot of peoples issue with "don't lose X plants" might just come from Big Wave Beach 28. Because Big Wave Beach's entire strategy revolves around sacrificing plants you're willing to lose by putting them in the front lines.
Infinut plant food: Am I joke to you?
@@thunderspark1536 Infinut doesn't save you from Surfboards and High Tide.
I’ve actually been replaying the game, and it took me a solid couple of days to beat that level. Yeah it sucks.
Also that level is a big reason people despise Big wave beach, the fisher and the octozombi. The level is just HORRIBLE to play.
Dont get me stated on dreadful Day 15 and Day 31 of BWB where theres endangered Potato Mines and Quacodiles respectively the latter of which gets triggered by hooks causing you to lose immediately in first seconds of the level, and its not fun replaying the same level only to lose to Fisherman, yes they arent as overpowered as Wizard or Octo Zombies but still should never be underestimated
I kinda like somewhat easy Last Stands as they let you experiment with high cost or just plain bad plants; Pirate seas 22 is one of my most played levels just to see which plants can make it, make it without losing one, etc.
PS 22 quite literally one of the most memorable moments in vanilla for me. The sheer stupidity of it
Agreed! Last stands are so fun to mess around on
Yeah, I have the opposite opinion on last stand vs. spend x sun than him, but it mostly comes down to level design.
The last stand levels often have a good amount of sun you can spend, so you can try out funny or stupid plant compositions, and the long recharge/costly plants finallyy have a place they can shine.
On the opposite, spend x sun levels often have idiotically low requirements and are absolutely miserable because they basically completely restrict you to very specific plants (a.k.a. all the costless ones and 1-2 super cheap ones) and you still have to build up the board with a bunch of shit plants you had little say in it. Also, the fact that it's like, the one objective you can just lose completely on accident because they fixed it for x amount of plants not this one makes this just completely aggravating.
You can beat pirate seas day 22 with one line of the wind daisys or whatever their called
Draftodills
man! locked and loaded was so good that pvz 3 is ALL locked and loaded levels! Thank you Popcap!! 😇🙏🏻🙏🏻
The use less sun than X amount is the worst objective IMO solely for the fact that you can pass the threshold by accident, like you said it could be a good objective but it’s glaring issue has made me fail the most
The annoying thing is it used to be the same for Never have more than X plants, but they patched that yet didn't patch the sun limit one
The "don't spend sun for X seconds" has baited me _twice_ in mods (maybe in the same level) because I forgot both times that it doesn't have to be at the beginning of the level, just don't do it for some time within the level.
I thought that you had to use plants like Iceberg (free stuff) to deal with the zombies before you could start using sun.
Oh.
same lol
I feel like survive with most plants picked is actually better than all plants picked from a casual standpoint, because it can be annoying and a little jarring if you plan on using your own strategy and you’re suddenly forced to use something different and sometimes boring.
yeah, you're forced with a certain strategy, and don't get to choose
@@therealelement75 exactly
@@snapslingpeavine1371 yeah I hate those levels
The thing is, survive with most plants does not change your gameplay at all. You just make a smaller version of the strategy you were using. The whole game (except for two worlds) is already designed for casuals, we didn't need more objectives for casuals, it's supposed to be balanced. People mostly spam the same single strat through out all of their playthrough, so forcing them to use a completely different strategy that still works with the level is great!
@@therealelement75 "Oh no, I can't spam the same strategy I used throught the whole game!" Just get good. If you only are able to play 7 plants and nothing else, you need to play a little more.
Trample flowers is fine, but putting it close to the front is SADISTIC
Good thing there's no "trample flowers" level where the flowers are *before the first tile on the lawn*
Md 30!
I actually kinda liked that one level in vanilla where dinosaurs are constantly kicking zombies over the flower line and you're given primal peashooters to work with so you have to constantly assess how well they are doing and control that so they can't knock zombies past the flower line *from the back.*
I actually like don't lose more than x plants, as long as the level doesn't include too many insta kill zombies, so it actually encourages walls and discourages instas.
It would probably be just better to lock away instas for the level, so....
*A L O E*
Iceberg lettuce can be a useful insta on some of these levels, but only for it's powerup
Honestly I'd even say it was a decent goal until I got to big wave beach.
I feel they could have been more creative with some of the passive objectives. Like the produces x sun was a huge missed opportunity. What if it was produces x sun in order for the level to end. The longer the level goes on the harder it gets until it gets to difficult for the average player.
Like the slot machine format in pvz1 right?
@@oomygamerchannel936 Something like
Or maybe they could make an actually hard amout of sun, cuz 6k sun isn't very hard to achieve. They could maybe do a modifier that makes zombies take damage with time or maybe just use zombies that self destruct, that way stalling wouldn't work
Fun fact: spore shroom and witch hazel can make you fail the "Never have more than X plants" objectives.
Found that out the hard way once
Are they even your plants if they were created autonomously by something that you are only indirectly responsible for?
Could potato mine, primal potato mine, and lily pad's plant foods also make you fail?
No. They just dont spawn
@@mikelsantiagoamayaromero1804 they may have patched it at some point, but I remember failing a plant max level with hazel
Spear mint
Finally, an objective tierlist
This is an objective tier list on objectives. Here´s why.
Fun video!
i liked the endangered plant level where you had to keep using plant food on the puff shroom to survive
*Puff Shroom did not survive*
I DID NOT
i think what we learned from this is that Wild West conveyor belts are an amazing mechanic
I love last stands. Easily my favorite stage type. My opinion of them only lowered when I dedicated my life to shadow plants, and I still like them anyway.
I'm not sure why sun bombs and the like don't count for this video(are they mini games?), but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the gimmick obstacle type conditions next.
Maybe it's because they're World-specific since Potions aren't here either
Those are brain busters, kinda like minigames
@@scmbgoogle7790brain busters *are* objectives
I feel like all of the objectives have enough to them to be able to make a level really interesting but they just choose not to put in the work.
I just thought up a really interesting endangered plant level idea for pirate seas.
Lanes 1 3 and 5 have planks and an endangered spikeweed one tile back from the planks, barrel rollers spawn a lot and you have to stop them from rolling them over, but in the unplanked lanes theres endangered garlics that will redirect rope swing zombies into the main lanes cluttering them up making it harder to deal with the barrel rollers. But theres enough room for strategy due to the endangered plants having an empty tile in front of them.
Honestly, I kinda wish I could help come up with ideas for challenge levels in a mod or something.
holy crap thats actually good
Seems like a fun idea, but there’s one really easy solution to the Spikeweeds. Just put a Spikerock in front of them. They will tank most hits from the barrel rollers. Also I wish Garlic wasn’t such a bad plant.
@HungryWarden True but just have the level before you get access to spikerock, better yet have spikerock be unlocked from completing the level
somehow Last stand is my most favorite mode
It's close to sandbox mode in my eyes and I enjoy just watching new plant crushing zombie without having to spend time on sun part
I completely agree
"dont spend more than __" is the literal fun police, along with "dont plant more than ___" and "dont lose more than __" they just limit your options
I think those objectives should be used together with predetermined plants or conveyor
@@lol1013 i think it could work if like lets say dont lose more than levels were based off levels that dont really require you to use instants, sometimes they're just normal levels for some reason so that does nothing but limit your choices
No?
"Don't spend more than __" is just slow last stand, like Creepz said in the video. It discourages sun production since sun producers become useless after you hit the limit.
"Don't plant more than __" is made so you use heavier and more expensive plants instead of spamming cheaper plants like lightning reed.
And "Don't lose more than __" is there to make you not insta spam, like most people do through most levels. One of my favorite plants is iceberg lettuce and I still love that objective because it forces me to get a different early game that isn't "stall one zombie while I get double sun producer)
endangered plants has the highest highs but man it can feel frustrating
i didnt really notice the insanely good ways of using it until you pointed them out lol so thanks?
edit: also, you should include the mod name of the mod you’re playing in the bg in the corner
I completely ignored Peanut in that locked and loaded level in middle ages, haha.
Random thoughts no-one will read:
- I had no idea mold colonies could be more interesting than "Hahah you lose the back of your lawn," the modded applications are waaaaay cooler than anything the unmodded game ever does
- Collect X Sun would be marginally more interesting if the level instawon when you got the sun, as opposed to actually having to finish the rest of it
- Flower Line should have the lawnmowers at the flower line for a one-time save, as opposed to where they do nothing
- Destroy X Grid Items would be fun if a) all X were on the map at game start (gravestones?) and b) destroying all of them instawon the level
I think it would be funny to have a level where you have a flower line and the last flag is IMPOSSIBLE to beat, so you need to use knockbacks, plants that can't be eaten like spikeweed or infi-nut or something else that can make the zombies go through the flowers and use the lawnmowers to kill the impossible wave.
I definitely agree that the "don't lose more than x plants" objectives can be really interesting. The main problem is those times when you die to unfair luck. I think the best way to designing levels with this objective is to simply not include any zombies with insta-kill abilities (possible exception for non-mecha gargantuars). Without the nonsense insta-kills taking away your plants with you having little to no way to resist them then it's pretty fun. I'd say that this objective is the one most reliant upon level design. As you mentioned at the end, any objective can be interesting if the level is designed to match it, but some require more work than others and some have a larger range from good to bad. I think that this objective has the largest good/bad range of all of them due to how easy it is to make either an interesting level that blocks instas and plant selling or Big Wave Beach Day 28.
Yeah. I think that the best way to make a level based on that objective is to use zombies with low dps. No instakills, no chickens, no newspapers, imps and similars. Just slow/defensive zombeis. Afterall, the main gimmick of that objective is that you don't have access to instakills, so having to deal with bucketheads without using instas.
It’s fair grounds. Neither you nor zombies can use insta kills.
I hate endangered plants solely because of The Old Queens rematch in Eclise. Four endangered sunflowers on minecarts. IN COLUMN EIGHT. WITH BARREL ROLLERS. Holy shit that level sucked ass.
Another problem is in Reflourished, where they nerf plants in locked n' loaded levels and then don't nerf the levels alongside them... some of them are frustrating, rng based, and one is straight up impossible without powerups.
Which is the impossible level in Reflourished?
i beat that eclise level first try i dont get what your on about
Modern Day Level 16 is impossible in Reflourished without power ups or insane luck. How did they not realize that they should rebalance vanilla levels?
@@trekkinmain4974 MD16 is fine. I'm talking about BWB16 and DA18.
@@nc7718 I don't think any of the plants from either of those levels got nerfed (Sun-Shroom is the only one that comes to mind). How did you find them more difficult?
Lock and loaded it’s horrible in penny pursuit 3 chilly
i honestly think the objectives just all suck. i want to play the game with my own restrictions. they’re just frustrating because they’re annoying and don’t feel interesting. to me, they’re not a challenge, they’re just an artificial difficulty increase.
They are not supposed to be a difficult increase. There are a way to force players to not just use the same strategy over and over in all levels
@@tpfoxCastro fair. i still don’t like them
You completely missed limited seed bank stuff? That’s half the fun of ‘plant chosen’ levels that can really force your hand with more flexibility than L&L levels.
Now we need a Jurassic Marsh dinosaur tierlist
What I hate is the combination of objectives.
Particularly the sheet Trample the flowers, Mold colonies AND the conveyor belt. The lunar New year piñata is the worst where the winning condition is dependent on the RNG of Plant food and Locations of the Bucket head type Zombies where you can use PF on a Bok choy most effectively.
objectives are neat but I still prefer the OG PvZ2 1.0 way of handling them, where they were optional side quests to earn stars. PvZ2 1.0 had a lot of issues but that was honestly pretty neat.
if it;s anything to note the way pvz2 china works is with a close to same system
basically a level has 2 versions, a normal version and a hard version
in the hard version there are 3 stars you can earn which you get from completing a objective
think getting a start from having spent lessthan 2200 sun
this one I haven't seen in international pvz2 but another one is have more than x amount of plants on the lawn when you beat the level (to block the strat of just using lawnmowers on the final wave making you need to clear it out legitimately)
if I recall correctly from what I have read from comment sections is the stars you earn let you unlock the zomboss levels at the end of the world, (and the other one I have seen is you know a battle pass progression system, so in "Secret Realms" they have that system (where when you reach star milestones you will unlock a reward with a free path and a payed path, with a big reward if you get all the stars)
I have made a big comment but I hope this come out understandable
Big wave and dark ages(or anything where zombies can trap plants) can have cheesable endangered plant objectives because you could just have all the endangered plants sheepified or trapped in an octopus, they won’t be eaten too
Weird that you want the "Don't spend more than X sun" objective to have higher sun spending thresholds when you don't like the "Never have more than X plants" objective because vanilla gives you too forgiving of a threshold. Which is it? Do you want your objectives to give you a flexible threshold that lets you plant a lot or do you want them to be limiting enough to challenge you? Because you criticized one clone of the same objective for being too hard and then criticized the other clone of that objective for being too easy.
For the endangered plants, i find it ok but the its shot way down as most levels place them in the first 4 rows and spam instakill zombies and stuff on it, making the objective good, but the levels with it horrible
You never mentioned what a “Last Stand” is, and it’s very confusing. You actually didn’t explain quite a few of the objectives. I guess that’s fair - this channel seems to be more aimed towards people more familiar with pvz2.
I means, if u haven't played the game and experience those objectives yourself, then of course the video would be confusing to you.
@@Only4two100bucks but it’s not hard to say “alright so Last Stand is an objective where you blah blah blah” it would take like 30 seconds, would pad out the video a little longer which is typically a good thing, and drastically increase the reach of the video - a lot more people would be able to watch it and still enjoy it. not everyone has a computer to play modded pvz2, or the patience to trudge through vanilla.
When points are pointless 👁️_👁️
I played 2 much pvz china version nowadays where the don't lose plant keep screwing me over and over made me really hate that thing cus their special lvl have mechanic to kill your stuff really easily
(and in the special lvl all objective can kill u cus it's stupid even producing sun,usually 8k and other crap and other special conditions as well)
TFW you leave a Prospector to die at the end of a Flowers level only for it to not self-destruct and instead trample the flowers and cause a losd
I think manual use plants (coconut cannon, banana launcher, not magnifying grass) could help improve conditions whose goal is “not to play the game” (last stand, don’t spend sun for x seconds, ect), because it gives you something more to do during the waiting period, making it feel like you’re actually playing the game.
I disagree with Last Stand, because it really makes you think of what you should use for your defense before the zombies arrive. You don't have to grind out sun in Last Stand levels.
Hey, you have been talking about pvz late game and how it's not a challenge, I would like to hear how would you change that
Objectively objective title lacks adjectives for the objective objective it is trying to reach on objectives.
*CinemaSins Ding*
i can quite literally hear the omori brainrot slowly consuming creeps, the ost is becoming more and more common with each video
Ik, it's great!
I think «Produce X Sun» could be wayyy better when
A. You made final wave spawn zombie below the lawn like in altverz
B. You need to SAVE the sun for the finale of level, this would be perfect objective with this issues!
Why weren't conveyors on the tier list? Do you consider them minigames?
Edit: I would personally put no lawnmower levels at least b. After all, you said that pvz2 is a casual game, and I agree. I think they're a neat way to make the game more challenging for a casual audience without it feeling unfair ever, if you let the zombies reach the end you lose, nothing to save you this time. The thing that stops them from going any higher is the fact that it's only use I can think of in vanilla is Garg levels which are easy by default because they are conveyor levels in vanilla. Of course this is still my opinion and people are free to disagree with it if they want to.
The game doesn't classify them as an objective. I was considering adding them regardless but, eh. Conveyors are conveyors.
@@Creeps20 That's fair
@@Creeps20 I mean, the traditional divide between objectives and minigames also excludes Locked and loaded, and endangered plants.
There used to be an objective to not lose lawnmowers, which was basically a harder version of the no mowers.
@@eifbkcn I don't see how those would differ
Funnily enough how we feel about endangered plants and last stands are completely opposite. Interesting
One is put the plants and just wait, the other one is "if you blink, you die"
I just had an interesting idea when watching the defeat x zombies part. What if instead of that it was a whole level thing where you had to defeat a zombie every x seconds. That would actually weaken stallers, pretty much the meta of pvz2. You could also use gargs or other strong zombies to make it feel more frantic rather than just weakening stallers, as you'd have to pick off weaker zombies to stall for time to kill the larger threats.
"Mostly because it's dumb and nobody else would ever think of it"
Gold Ninja Vlog Spot:
GOT HIMMMMMMMMMM
The realease of this video made me so super happy. Your videos are the only ones on youtube that i jump for joy for
The one thing that really irritates me about objective levels is that there is no distinction between objective levels and standard levels from the world menu. I don’t want to have to memorize what levels are regular levels just so I can play a level without being limited by plants lost, sun spent, plants on the lawn, etc.
Isn't there a system of lines on le level icon
@@kylefarrell849 sure, but some unlined levels still have special objectives and there is no marker to say what that special objective is.
35:39 the way the narrator says “NO” made me think that he detests it so much.
Survive for X seconds sounds like you could do something really different, like a unbeatable level where damage is obsolete and you have to do everything you got to stall,
Nah Last Stand is the most fun objective, period. Don't spend sun is a really clever and challenging one too.
You misuse literally a lot
15:01
You can beat pirate seas day 22 with only spikeweed.
I never noticed that the flower line flowers have faces
Objective idea: don’t let the zombies touch the ground this would only use flying zombies and in this objective blover is banned
You’re forgetting one objective exclusive to dark ages survive with the potions boosting the zombies and Sun bombs
Minigames aren't real objectives.
"Defeat X type of Zombies" Ok, fair enough. "Defeat Cardio 5 times" or "Defeat Ceasar Zombie 2 times" Why those 2 have so much hp to the point that they're not going to be defeated more than once
Eclise taught me to hate objective levels, I'd much rather have fun with the same old boring strategy than get forced into a level with BS mechanics of losing.
Ever since then I've grown to despise objective based levels
“It’s entirely POINTless and arbitrary” who’s gonna tell him
12:48 I once lost "More than X plants level" because my stupid ass thought it was a good idea to use Hazelnut Witch. So she ended up creating a bunch of puffshrooms that made me lost because it exceeded the given plant limit
12:43 I mistakenly thought that it was possible to lose the Never Have More Than X Plants objective using Holly Barrier, Spore-shroom, or Witch Hazel. Holly Barrier's leaf barriers count as plants for the objective, but thanks to your remark I learned that the new plants simply don't spawn above the maximum
Given plants is a really fun concept!
I don't really like how you viewed ''survive without mowers'' mainly because if you are a casual player [pvz 2's target audience] it will actually be an interesting threat which multiple players may struggle with and also survive without mowers can be used creatively such as using zombies that ignore plants like balloon and fly zombie and other zombies such as glitter zombie that makes all the zombies behind her immortal can also cause panic if they have a huge hoard behind them
with last stand and spend less than X sun i disagree with you since i love last stand since strategizing is my favourite part of pvz while spend less than X sun annoys me since i almost always lose since the only plant i need to use to win is 25 sun more than i can spend
wait is that GreenPath theme in the back?
He said that the points objective was pointless, how are you supoused to beat them then?
I would just like to say it's great seeing this community still alive and well. I came back to the series after seeing Garden Warfare on Xbox and trying it out. It brought me back to PvZ 1 and 2 to play again. One more thing however before I leave. More Masterclass style videos like Sun Producers? It helped my gameplay in an extreme way and more like it would be great.
15:18
Reflourished devs and players: *nervous sweating*
Don’t they just remove them I don’t think its stated
How on earth is the enjoyment level of endangered plant S
those are the only levels I would purchase extra sun with gems to pass bc it's a living hell especially if the endangered plants are weak af
Well maybe it's bc I use Chinese version
Nice objective objective tier list
The biggest reason I hate the "Don't lose more than X plants" level is that I CAN'T SHOVEL, like in many instances I put a cheap attacking plant in the back until I get more sun to plant a melon or something (since I can't rely on instas and most walls take very long times to recharge) but since shoveling counts as losing a plant it in these levels it instantly makes the level unbearable for me
Good video- the only bad thing is that eclise is used in the background 🤢🤢
(Talking about the point mechanic)
It's entirely *pointless* and arbitrary.
I see what you did there.
Endangered plants, while fun, most of the time is just hell. It's so annoying whenever the game makes it like a lettuce iceberg or a crocodile, it doesn't give you enough time to react which is just stupid.
Sun bombs aren't here so I will rate them. They are pretty fun but criminaly underused
5:11 I think a good way to do it, is by banning plant.
"Nobody else would ever think of it"
Me who already searched for this: ...
The objective behind ranking objective is hard to object the objective of being objectively funny!
Objectives are wierd as they used them a lot in 4 worlds and then just rarely use them. Dont know if i hate or like that
your voice is great!
I absolutely adore the music in these videos! As someone who finds OMORI soundtracks insanely underrated and unknown, I always get excited when I hear em in the vid lol.
i thought walking on the flower line with spikeweed was a feature...like a cool level concept would be where you use spikeweed but there are a bunch of zombies that can remove it like barrel
It was, but it got removed
@@kitten6317 it’s still there it just has to be in the middle
I feel like an all manual locked and last stand could work really well
creeps finally made a based video
Aren't trap tile's also an objetive
even tho they only appear in 1 world with 3 levels
7:54 what did you say
hell yea! long videos!
Hey, this is just some critique from a fan, but I think you should start announcing the title of the new category you're speaking on verbally in the video. I often listen to RUclips videos at work, and can't always dig my phone out of my pocket to read what thing you're speaking on next -- sometimes the transitions were so subtle that I didn't even KNOW you had moved onto a new subject.
So, yeah. Saying the objective out loud and then rating it would be helpful. The video essay is mostly audio, anyways, so it would just make sense.
I'm pretty sure that some of the objectives also had an instant-loss condition in the old times.
You could actually plant on the Mold Colonies accidentaly and you could accidentally go over the Never have more than x plants limit as well.
Yes, you could just simply put a plant on a mold and straight up lose the level LOL
i just kind of like listening to your voice.
nice, relaxed and well informed noises are my sleep aid.
I absolutely dispise Endangered plants. Especially when the plant is completely useless or outright suicidal, and the level is flodded with things that instakill that plant, no it is horrendous and bellow god damn F.
i think the flower line would benefit from being designed more like mowers, where you instead get a bonus from protecting them
maybe each flower tile is a piece of the ending bonus, and you only immediately lose if all the flowers are trampled, do even only one flower remaining is fine (you're probs not gonna get the bonus for that tho)
i agree with most things aside from sun timer and spend no more than X, id put no more than X in A just because i really like the pressure you can get from it, and i personally never lose to it accidentaly (hasnt happend to me in my *insert long time* of playing this game lol, but i understand the people that do complain about it).
Sun Timer is B for me because i really like the quick desition making you have to do for it, "do i want to stay with this defense for a while or do i want to keep planting more stuff", always was a fan of that to be honest. Good vid man, cheers.
40 minute video from creeps? brb gotta prepare the popcorn
To me locked and loaded is the worst one simple because of Wild West day 22 but we don't talk about levels here...
Also, survive without mowers is waay too difficult in conveyors when you get a bunch of garbage from them
@@jpvgdi hate dark ages night 18 stupid locked and loaded