Optimal damage fast isn't just in the street... nothing street only about that kind of mentality... The question is - can you do it? In the street or the sport? Most often what we see is no.
A boxing or Muay Tai cover is NOT a Tan Sao... You may use it in place of a Tan but a Tan does not exist as a cover where your hand is on top of your head.. Sorry but no... A Tan is a weapon that can take the line and >>HIT
@@trondyne3513 Hey 👋🏼 thanks for your detailed comments and feedback. Much appreciated. I’m not going to disagree with your train of thought, your detailed comments and perspective. I always respect and appreciate outside eyes. However, like I’ve said in almost half of the hundreds of videos I’ve made before… only classes, with hours of training and explaining could really truly ever capture the essence or thrust of any art. With the very short snippets I put out on social media, I would say it’s nearly impossible to capture everything that’s required to understand any martial art in one short video that literally only goes through one of a zillion drills and/ideas of executing. Like I said… I appreciate your candor and detailed rebuke 🙏🏼 I will undoubtedly continue to do videos like this or similar, regarding the execution of one singular drill flow. I’d love to liken this type of critique to pausing a video of the flow of a beautifully colored butterfly, as it flows through the air and in between flowers. All the viewer gets to see and critique is the blurred interlacing of pixels paused in between frames. Again, thank you for the feedback. Please create a video for me, so that I can get a better visual and understanding of your commentary. Thank you 🙏🏼
@@wing_chun_science sports a Wing Chun Kungfu logo but has absolutely nothing on Wing Chun in that page to help prove there point , they talk like they've been teaching it with great effectiveness and have the results and students, well let's see I'm telling you the amount of experts out there is overwhelming lol anyway the combined experience of you and Dad alone Sifu, and the rich history of Wing Chun that come with both of you is an awesome library of knowledge that has been tried and tested for years and where you are today , most people will never know or respect the growth and time we put in to also be as open minded as we are today, little does this guy know we use to be that hardcore about what's correct and what isn't in the Wing Chun art but hey smile and learn to adapt instead of resisting just like Wing Chun teaches and you'll eventually see what alot of others dont🙏🏽
1:55 There is no difference because you are wrong to begin with. You don't think "I need to knock him out" in the sport. MMA mentality is "I need to beat the crap out of him". The reason why we have referees is to avoid killing each other. If you look at MMA fights, MMA fighters still continue to hit their opponent despite their opponent being knocked out, MMA fighters continue to choke their opponent despite them tapping out or already passed out, MMA fighters do not let go of their joint lock or reap despite their opponent tapping out. The only reason why no one has died is because we have a ref jumping in and forcefully pulling out the fighter. 2:50 I don't know why you are making it sound like the combat sports strategy is different from the street. In MMA, dealing as much damage in the shortest amount of time IS THE IDEAL. Giving the most amount of ferocity in a fight IS IDEAL. You make it sound like MMA fighters aren't trying to do these things. The only reason why we don't do it all of the time is simple. FIGHTING IS HARD! Especially when YOUR OPPONENT HAS THE SAME MENTALITY AND SKILL AS YOU! 4:00 Why do you make it sound like finishing the fight as fast as possible is not the goal in MMA? Just because fights don't end fast in MMA means that we don't try to do it. Fights last long because BOTH OF US are trying to end the fight fast. I don't know if you heard of game theory, but the principle is the same, I'll illustrate it with a point system. If we both take it slow, we earn 2 points. If one of us goes slow and the other goes fast, the slow person gets 0 and the fast person gets 3. If both of us go fast, we get 1 point. As such, in an MMA fight, everything starts out fast, but the fighters realize that this isn't optimal, and it is safer to both take it slow. And since both fighters are now fighting slowly, you will sometimes have one of the fighters suddenly go fast to capitalize on the pressuring advantage, but when that happens, the opponent goes fast as well and both fighters choose to break it and take it slow again. 8:30 No, it doesn't work like that. This is a big misconception. The idea that hitting an opponent will magically disable them. Look up any boxing fights. The opponent is still throwing the punch despite being knocked out. The opponent is still continuing the fight despite having a dislocated shoulder. Hitting your opponent doesn't magically stun your opponent like a video game. 9:30 Good Point! I'd like to point out that Chi Sau is just like pumelling in wrestling and Muay Thai. But I'd like to also say that Chi Sau is only 5 percent of what a real fight is, and BJJ rolling sessions is 20% of what a real fight is. 13:00 Can you just rewatch this section yourself. Too slow to parry, but fast enough to slip and block at the same time? This surely must be a mistake. And you can't tell me that slipping and blocking at the same time is faster than just a regular cover. Why? Because, with slipping and blocking, you need to identify the punch, where it is coming from before moving your entire torso to move out and lift your arm to block (Also, why are you even blocking? Your head is off the centerline already.). Meanwhile, for a basic shell/cover, you see your opponent arm move, you lift your hand up and voilà. 13:30 You just basically desecrated a Wing Chun technique. Does the Wing Chun community agree with this? Is this what the founder of Wing Chun wanted the Tan Sau to be? Overall, I am not hating on this video or anything. You make great points and give out good strategies. What I am criticizing is that you make it sound like your strategies aren't used in MMA despite those strategies being the only thing we learn.
@@hellohennessy3462 Hey 👋🏼 thanks for the very detailed response and explanation of my errors. I received another message similar to this one the other day. I’m happy for the dialogue that seems to be a point of contention. It’ll be very difficult for me to explain myself again. However, at the end of the day, I believe we’re saying the same thing but some how my words for this one particular video has been misconstrued. My son and most of my students are MMA fighters. I believe I gave massive props to them and did not minimize their fighting to anything less. I was simply stating the reality that the street doesn’t have refs and the cage does. That’s not a diss, it’s a documented fact. Regarding Wing Chun and “the community” of Wing Chun, I really don’t need to know what or how they feel about what I teach, since I’ve been doing this for almost 50 years. None of them sponsor me, none of them pay me, none of them would be affected one way or the other in their own lives whether I live or die. Again, I’m very happy that you’ve written a very extensive and thorough review of the video. I’m extremely grateful for that. I’m being presumptuous here, but I’m going to assume that the way I teach and what I teach will not effect you in your own teachings and that you can even use this video to show your students on what not to do. This is RUclips… not everything is for everyone. I’m fine with that. If you wouldn’t mind, may you please take a little time to make a video on the correct way to do what I was teaching here? I will not say a word, but would rather just look and listen and learn. I’ve churned out many amateur and pro fighters in my day… I thought I knew what I was talking about. It’s all good… we can never be too old to learn. I apologize that this video sparked a nerve within you, which necessitated an in-depth and staunch write up. Again, I believe we’re saying the same thing when it comes to sanctioned and street fights. Regarding Wing Chun, there’s a method to my teaching that cannot be crystallized into one video. I wish you success, a happy Thanksgiving and many blessings to you and your family. Stay well 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Those guys look legit😮😮 I need to see more🔥🔥💥🤛🏾👏🏾
@@prime14901 Some say they’re the real deals 💪🏽🔥👊🏼💥
Stick around
Optimal damage fast isn't just in the street... nothing street only about that kind of mentality... The question is - can you do it? In the street or the sport? Most often what we see is no.
I think most the MMA fans in the comments are missing the point looool
A boxing or Muay Tai cover is NOT a Tan Sao... You may use it in place of a Tan but a Tan does not exist as a cover where your hand is on top of your head.. Sorry but no... A Tan is a weapon that can take the line and >>HIT
@@trondyne3513 Hey 👋🏼 thanks for your detailed comments and feedback. Much appreciated. I’m not going to disagree with your train of thought, your detailed comments and perspective. I always respect and appreciate outside eyes.
However, like I’ve said in almost half of the hundreds of videos I’ve made before… only classes, with hours of training and explaining could really truly ever capture the essence or thrust of any art. With the very short snippets I put out on social media, I would say it’s nearly impossible to capture everything that’s required to understand any martial art in one short video that literally only goes through one of a zillion drills and/ideas of executing.
Like I said… I appreciate your candor and detailed rebuke 🙏🏼
I will undoubtedly continue to do videos like this or similar, regarding the execution of one singular drill flow.
I’d love to liken this type of critique to pausing a video of the flow of a beautifully colored butterfly, as it flows through the air and in between flowers. All the viewer gets to see and critique is the blurred interlacing of pixels paused in between frames.
Again, thank you for the feedback. Please create a video for me, so that I can get a better visual and understanding of your commentary.
Thank you 🙏🏼
@@wing_chun_science sports a Wing Chun Kungfu logo but has absolutely nothing on Wing Chun in that page to help prove there point , they talk like they've been teaching it with great effectiveness and have the results and students, well let's see
I'm telling you the amount of experts out there is overwhelming lol anyway the combined experience of you and Dad alone Sifu, and the rich history of Wing Chun that come with both of you is an awesome library of knowledge that has been tried and tested for years and where you are today , most people will never know or respect the growth and time we put in to also be as open minded as we are today, little does this guy know we use to be that hardcore about what's correct and what isn't in the Wing Chun art but hey smile and learn to adapt instead of resisting just like Wing Chun teaches and you'll eventually see what alot of others dont🙏🏽
1:55 There is no difference because you are wrong to begin with. You don't think "I need to knock him out" in the sport. MMA mentality is "I need to beat the crap out of him". The reason why we have referees is to avoid killing each other. If you look at MMA fights, MMA fighters still continue to hit their opponent despite their opponent being knocked out, MMA fighters continue to choke their opponent despite them tapping out or already passed out, MMA fighters do not let go of their joint lock or reap despite their opponent tapping out. The only reason why no one has died is because we have a ref jumping in and forcefully pulling out the fighter.
2:50 I don't know why you are making it sound like the combat sports strategy is different from the street. In MMA, dealing as much damage in the shortest amount of time IS THE IDEAL. Giving the most amount of ferocity in a fight IS IDEAL. You make it sound like MMA fighters aren't trying to do these things. The only reason why we don't do it all of the time is simple. FIGHTING IS HARD! Especially when YOUR OPPONENT HAS THE SAME MENTALITY AND SKILL AS YOU!
4:00 Why do you make it sound like finishing the fight as fast as possible is not the goal in MMA? Just because fights don't end fast in MMA means that we don't try to do it. Fights last long because BOTH OF US are trying to end the fight fast. I don't know if you heard of game theory, but the principle is the same, I'll illustrate it with a point system. If we both take it slow, we earn 2 points. If one of us goes slow and the other goes fast, the slow person gets 0 and the fast person gets 3. If both of us go fast, we get 1 point. As such, in an MMA fight, everything starts out fast, but the fighters realize that this isn't optimal, and it is safer to both take it slow. And since both fighters are now fighting slowly, you will sometimes have one of the fighters suddenly go fast to capitalize on the pressuring advantage, but when that happens, the opponent goes fast as well and both fighters choose to break it and take it slow again.
8:30 No, it doesn't work like that. This is a big misconception. The idea that hitting an opponent will magically disable them. Look up any boxing fights. The opponent is still throwing the punch despite being knocked out. The opponent is still continuing the fight despite having a dislocated shoulder. Hitting your opponent doesn't magically stun your opponent like a video game.
9:30 Good Point! I'd like to point out that Chi Sau is just like pumelling in wrestling and Muay Thai. But I'd like to also say that Chi Sau is only 5 percent of what a real fight is, and BJJ rolling sessions is 20% of what a real fight is.
13:00 Can you just rewatch this section yourself. Too slow to parry, but fast enough to slip and block at the same time? This surely must be a mistake. And you can't tell me that slipping and blocking at the same time is faster than just a regular cover. Why? Because, with slipping and blocking, you need to identify the punch, where it is coming from before moving your entire torso to move out and lift your arm to block (Also, why are you even blocking? Your head is off the centerline already.). Meanwhile, for a basic shell/cover, you see your opponent arm move, you lift your hand up and voilà.
13:30 You just basically desecrated a Wing Chun technique. Does the Wing Chun community agree with this? Is this what the founder of Wing Chun wanted the Tan Sau to be?
Overall, I am not hating on this video or anything. You make great points and give out good strategies. What I am criticizing is that you make it sound like your strategies aren't used in MMA despite those strategies being the only thing we learn.
@@hellohennessy3462 Hey 👋🏼 thanks for the very detailed response and explanation of my errors. I received another message similar to this one the other day. I’m happy for the dialogue that seems to be a point of contention.
It’ll be very difficult for me to explain myself again. However, at the end of the day, I believe we’re saying the same thing but some how my words for this one particular video has been misconstrued.
My son and most of my students are MMA fighters. I believe I gave massive props to them and did not minimize their fighting to anything less. I was simply stating the reality that the street doesn’t have refs and the cage does. That’s not a diss, it’s a documented fact.
Regarding Wing Chun and “the community” of Wing Chun, I really don’t need to know what or how they feel about what I teach, since I’ve been doing this for almost 50 years. None of them sponsor me, none of them pay me, none of them would be affected one way or the other in their own lives whether I live or die.
Again, I’m very happy that you’ve written a very extensive and thorough review of the video. I’m extremely grateful for that. I’m being presumptuous here, but I’m going to assume that the way I teach and what I teach will not effect you in your own teachings and that you can even use this video to show your students on what not to do. This is RUclips… not everything is for everyone. I’m fine with that.
If you wouldn’t mind, may you please take a little time to make a video on the correct way to do what I was teaching here? I will not say a word, but would rather just look and listen and learn.
I’ve churned out many amateur and pro fighters in my day… I thought I knew what I was talking about. It’s all good… we can never be too old to learn.
I apologize that this video sparked a nerve within you, which necessitated an in-depth and staunch write up.
Again, I believe we’re saying the same thing when it comes to sanctioned and street fights. Regarding Wing Chun, there’s a method to my teaching that cannot be crystallized into one video.
I wish you success, a happy Thanksgiving and many blessings to you and your family.
Stay well 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼