"Star Trek episodes featuring comets are always good." Is that why DS9 is the best series? Ever episode has a comet in it, assuming the opening credits count.
I personally don't think DS9s Qpisode was trying to present itself as "hey look we're like TNG, here's Q" but rather the opposite. Q tries to be humourous but Sisko almost literally tells him to fuck off. TNG has it in a frenemies way where Picard puts up with Q because of his character, while Sisko just punches the guy and tells him straight out that there is no way he is dealing with him
I think there's a definite effort to say "this isn't TNG" for sure, but given how many TNG characters show up in Season 1 of DS9, there's also a definite effort on the part of the writers to try and encourage TNG fans to give the new show a go.
My guess is you’re observing a tension between a network mandate and the writers agenda. The network wanted Q to draw in TNG audiences to its first spin-off. The writers were trying to establish their distinction and independence from TNG and went out of their way to lampshade that with Q calling it out with Sisko despite having to do a Q episode they probably didn’t want to.
This is my head cannon for the end of Q. He becomes human at the end of his life as a Q. He ends up taking his own life after the death of his daughter and crashing two planes together.
@@thoesnyder No no no, Q _started_ as a human named Eugene who got lost in his time machine, thrown back to the beginning of the universe! They missed a huge opportunity to cast Arleen Sorkin as the female Q.
I totally agree. It's already just like RIGHT there,but also I never miss an opportunity to work a classic rock lyric or song title into everyday conversation.
"He was ultimately reduced to just another bloated corpse with a familiar face, occasionally bobbing to the surface in an ocean of shit. But, before I get to Star Trek: Picard..." Damn, son! 🤣
What Steve doesn't know is that he's going to cause me to work twice as hard to rationalize was Picard "wasn't so bad, actually." I do think that some future episodes of SNW, or whatever, are going to have to "re-visit" Season 2 of Picard to try to make it make any kind of sense. Season 1, whether you like it or not, had a fairly clear conclusion. Season 3 was of course just straight-up fan-service and tried to tee-up the Seven spin-off. Season 2 on the other hand is just a Pandora's Box of WTF.
@@dankoba1 my favourite conspiracy theory (disclaimer: it’s my theory, I made it) is that Picard was designed by people who wanted to ruin Star Trek’s heritage - a powerful legacy that sets expectations for society’s future. And yes in case you’re wondering, I actually wonder if someone talked up George Lucas’s ego when writing Phantom Menace, because that was a measurable impact to damage Americana, America’s popular culture.
I still maintain that Steve's feelings about Season 2 of Picard come down to it being the product of Q showing up to Steve one day and being like "What would you actually like to see in a Trek show?" and him responding with a "If they're going to bring back classic characters, I want to see it focus on exploring completely original ideas with them rather than anything nostalgic" and Q smirked at him, said "You didn't say any of their motivations needed to make sense" and did the little flashy swoosh, and Pcard S2 popped into existence
You know those movies like Star Trek TMP or Tron which fail as storytelling because they go to the awkward conversation phase with something like half a dozen potentially really interesting philosophical questions or ideas but never go as far ask asking any of them out on a date, let alone pursuing a relationship? Star Wreck Picard season 2 is that, _agonizingly_ dragged out to ten painful hours' length. Followed by the realization at some point that the potential is only there by accident because whoever's writing this trainwreck couldn't write a believable story about the sun rising tomorrow morning.
At least that would make sense - still waiting on a star trek show based on moral choices more than personal trauma (especially unresolved trauma). It's like Deanna was the only damn counselor in the whole galaxy, and she was about as good at that as piloting!
Not only are Q's motivations in Tapestry ambiguous, Picard and Riker are not even entirely sure if Q even did anything. Picard considers if it was all a death bed dream his mind concocted. PS. What the biggest Q fails seems to have in common is that they are rehashing what he's already done but poorly. The DS9 episode is a test involving whether Sisko can figure out that the auction items are life forms, like Picard had to figure out the same is true of the star base in the pilot. Taking away the powers of Q's son, forcing him into a situation where he has to prove to be selfless, is a lesser version of Deja Q. Picard's season 2 is a lesser version of Tapestry and so on... Voyager's Death Wish episode has a lot going for it because they were true to Qs character while doing something new with it.
Death Wish is the only Voyager episode I would genuinely want to rewatch. It's sad, and funny, and shows a very different side of the Q that could've been something fantastic. de Lancie is at his powerful best and the depressed Quinn is deeply relatable to anyone who's ever battled depression. Edit: Imagine how much better Picard S2 would've been if Q was his usual chaotic troublemaker self the whole season, and then at the end he admits he's dying, he's afraid, and he wants Picard to be with him when he passes so he knows someone will care.
My favorite Q storyline is when he took a break from bothering Starfleet captains for a while so that he could play pranks on a bunch of colorful ponies.
The great thing about Q as a character is that, because of his god-like powers, it could easily be headcanoned than EVERY John DeLancie appearance in anything ever, is just Q exploring the multiverse/humanity's timeline and inserting himself as desired. I consider his appearance in Breaking Bad very much an instance of Q trying his hand at being human, for example. And his appearance as Discord in My Little Pony does nothing to disabuse me of this notion :P
@@Soguwehey season 1 was a) coherent [unlike 2], b) trying to do something original [unlike 3], and c) gave Data the on theme send off that Nemesis had denied him without rendering past events meaningless. It was not a consistently well executed season. But I think it’s better than either of its follow up seasons.
I did find the idea of a civil war within the Q continuum causing an uptick in supernovae to be REAL interesting. Probably the most interesting thing about the arc. But like all things Voyager, the idea exceeded their ability to expound on it. It only ever amounted to "huh, that's weird".
When you say it out loud it sounds cool and interesting. Imagine if they kept that idea in their back pocket and made it a movie instead of Nemesis. Honestly, I’ve annoyed myself with this beautiful aborted timeline. Movie budget, a proper swan song between Q and Picard and a Trek movie that isn’t a weak Khan rip off. The best timeline.
Q in the old video game "Star Trek: Borg" is perfect, he's utterly hilarious. I would heavily recommend playing it yourself or watching a playthrough of it to anyone that wants some more prime Q. (it's remastered online I believe).
I don’t think that’s why he was there - I’m sure it was a network mandate to draw in TNG audiences. But that’s what the writers used the mandate to do rather than be shoved in a TNG shaped hole.
I liked how Picard's rank meant nothing to Q so he always just called him by name. I also like how he called him by his surname to other people but Jean-luc face to face.
@@robertt9342 Q is one of the few premises that I think Lower Decks can't possibly do. It would be a comedy character on a comedy spoof show. There's nothing to parody because he brings his own jokes.
The food leftover metaphors and Rick Berman jabs had me cracking up. Yeah what Voyager and Picard did with the character was just tragic I always felt in DS9 they should've established Qlessness by having the Prophets directly intervene in his shenanigans and basically boot him, hammering home this isn't TNG and that this is our backyard. It always kinda bothered me that Clarktech aliens never interact with each other in this franchise
There’s a fanwank interpretation that definitely isn’t what the writers were thinking of the time, that what had actually shocked Q was not that Sisko had a thrown a punch but that the punch had connected. Because that shouldn’t have been possible - except Sisko isn’t entirely mortal and is partially extratemporal himself, and that’s when Q realized it, and quickly covered up that he was afraid. It would explain why his response in that moment implies an interest in Sisko but actually never interacts with him again and never comes back to DS9.
Any long-recurring villain/antagonist gets sweaty after a while, and Q is no exception. Just like how the Borg went from nigh-unstoppable nightmare creatures to become goofy zombies that Janeway could give sassy retorts to, Q became less threatening, less funny, and less interesting the more we saw him. Exposure ruined Q. Exposure on _Voyager_ specifically, but, you know.
The Q and the Grays concept of bringing in a new Q with the human perspective and empathy sounds nice but I’m guessing Olivia D’Abo’s character didn’t last long in the continuum then?
Maybe, but Q thought the continuum needed the qualities that humanity itself not just their upbringing would provide…. Either way Rogers should have performed the same function that Qunior was designed for…. Unless she was indoctrinated, or chose to leave. A baby q in the continuum would bring the change (for changes own sake) q wanted, where as Rogers grew up on earth.
Picard season 2 is so strange. I'm certain that it must have made sense at some point. There are a bunch of plot hooks that are implied and never shown. Characters take action for no reason, as if there was a scene that gave them motivation which was cut, or someone forgot to film it. I have two theories: 1: It was originally longer, possibly set in different time periods. For example, one of the children being deported was an important engineer in the building of the rocket 30 years later. Rescuing them then makes narrative sense and tells the moral that I feel they were groping for. For whatever reason this was cut down to favour the A plot featuring Picard, they couldn't remove all the B plots because then they'd not have used any of the other actors which leaves us with vestigial scenes just hanging around, having car chases for no reason. 2: Someone was walking through the studio with a bunch of prospective scripts for Picard season 2. On their way to a pitch meeting. They trip over Alex's doll collection in a hallway and the scripts go everywhere. Frantically they grab the pages from the floor and in their haste assemble the script for Season 2.
To me, Voyager has always felt like a half-baked, almost like we're seeing "test" versions of the episodes that need a bit more work. Yet, that feeling lasts the entire show. It should have been allowed to have ongoing arcs and story lines. (AND AT LEAST SHOW THEM GETTING HOME, PEOPLE.) It's a shame. Still, "What are you doing with that dog?" / "I'm not talking about the puppy" is one of the best burns in all of Trek, and no one can change my mind on that.
My gramma was this tiny little woman who was painfully polite, and yet frighteningly strict. She was religious and practical. One day she starts asking about a TV show. To describe it, she says in her accented English, “You know…the one with that Kit car.” She laughed (a rare occurrence) and said, “I love that Kit car!” 😮 Thanks for sparking the memory, lol
Yeah, I always thought Q is the worst idea with prominent presence in all of Star Trek. There are lots of other silly things, but most of them appear only once and are never mentioned again.
Honestly, my suspicion after going through a lot of Star Trek for the first time in the last couple years is that it's not that Voyager (or any other show) ruined Q... it's that Q wasn't actually that good in the first place. Jon De Lancie is good, but the thing that made him work in TNG was that his chaotic cynicism was a perfect counterweight to Picard's (and the rest of the Enterprise's) professional, orderly idealism; he's a wacky neighbor, he's basically Star Trek's Kramer, and that dynamic had some fun strengths to it both in just pure interpersonal dynamic and in unusual questions to ask. That's a dynamic that doesn't necessarily swing with other casts, especially ones that themselves got more chaotic. Deep Space Nine was already a lot more cynical and chaotic even in its seventh episode, there was nothing Q could provide that Quark and later Garak couldn't just do better; Voyager's cast is already grappling with the sorts of questions Q could occasionally provide, and just doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with his bullshit; the horrible new 'it turns out Q's sexist as hell' angle they tried to inject with his relationship with Janeway was by far the worst part, but he wouldn't have worked anyway. ...and all of that's honestly putting aside that I don't know if Q's track record was all that good in TNG, either. Like, Qpid is terrible, I'm not sure True Q is much good, and even in his best episodes he's essentially just a way to make Q Who and Tapestry happen, rather than an actively positive element of either.
I am one of the last surviving Voyager defenders. The rest of us died in the purge. Voyager has a ton of good episodes throughout its run. Year of Hell 1&2, for example.
I gave VOY a rewatch after getting into Prodigy this summer and I gotta agree, it's not nearly as dogshit as many have made it out to be. "Retrospect" notwithstanding, , nothing about that show was as asinine and insulting as S2 of Picard was.
I have to disagree that Q's use in Voyager was the ruination of the character. Yes his outings were mediocre, but the real offense was how the writers of Picard did not understand what made the character work, plus set up motivations that were confounding. Think about this: if Voyager never happened, the writers of Picard would have probably made the same stupid choices. I didn't see any trace of Voyager's fingerprints on the Picard version of Q
Even more so than what you explored, "The Q and the Grey" is philosophically off-putting. Their continuum was always somewhat aloof and mysterious. The way Q called humanity a 'savage child race' in the TNG pilot indicated that his people were far, far above the sorts of petty squabbles that consume us-- the sort of conflicts we want to be better than. Even through all the mischief and puzzles, there were strong hints that knew something about the goals humanity should aspire to, something we were waiting to unlock. With this episode and its civil war, we were shown that they have the same inane and destructive internal conflicts that we do, and that they don't even ask if there's a better way. They don't know anything that we don't. Those lofty Trekkian aspirations they've been hinting at? You can forget it. It's a huge letdown. I think this is at the crux of why this episode, more than any other, ruined the Q.
I have a headcanon that Q jumped universes after his last appearances in Picard... And landed in My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. One of the villains in that series is literally the embodiment of chaos, was voiced by DeLancie, and he even snaps his fingers with a flash of light to alter reality. Silly? Yes. But still a better send-off to the character than Picard Season 2 😂
Q dies and Celestia is there in the white void. "Welcome to the afterlife, Q. You're dead. I'm god. Oh, and Melony says hello." "I suppose I deserve this, all things considered." "Oh yes, Q. You deserve exactly what is about to happen. I sentence you, Q.... TO LIVE! Welcome to your new life as a comedy relief antagonist in a universe dominated by magical ponies." "Am I learning my lesson doing this?" "Yes, usually at least one lesson a week. Be grateful. If some very important people hadn't spoken on your behalf, you'd be dealing with some Swollen Eyeballs right now."
Trick question! TOS ruined Q with The Squire of Gothos, whiny from the beginning. Never figured out why Roddenberry thought he was a great plot device. Boring as a plot device. Funny in moments, sure.
I remember the bad taste the Voyager episode Threshhold left in my mouth. I was ready to give up on Voyager for good, but Death Wish convinced me to give it another chance. I love all the Q episodes on TNG, DS9, and Voyager...but even John de Lancie's charms can't redeem the terrible writing on Picard. Almost nothing can.
Despite the mixed nature of his Voyager appearances, I’m really hoping Q returns in Star Trek: Prodigy. After his Lower Deck cameo, seeing Q powers in animated form AND a Voyager reunion would be too much fun.
The whole 'Picard' season 2 thing felt to me like the writers said, "Let's have Q show up and be a d!ck, the fans will love it. We can think up a good reason for him to be there later." ...except they never thought of one.
I always thought Q should have referred to the Prophets in the DS9 episode. He could have said something disparaging about them living in a wormhole and been disgusted by their relationship with the Bajorans and Sisko, and maybe imply they aren’t very powerful. Then at the end of the episode we could find out that the Prophets did something that prevents Q from setting foot on Bajor ever. I think that would have been neat. The episode was a bit slow-this could easily have been done in about two minutes of screentime. I also feel like Qless just lacked energy overall. Q and Vash are both fun, mischievous characters, and the danger in the episode is interesting enough-how the writers managed to make it dull I don’t know.
In canon the relationship between Q and the Prophets has never been examined but in many non-canon sources (books, comics, Star Trek Online) they have a long, complicated past that now encourages them to leave the other side alone. I don't think Qless is a bad episode but it's definitely an episode that wouldn't have been made outside of season 1 (which is often the weakest season of a Star Trek series).
Say what you will about voyager.. it's still my favorite series, and it's one of the only series that really focuses on the exploration aspect, imo. Sure they are trying to get home, not much sticks between episodes, but they really hold true to the janeway is scientist Explorer at heart thing, and I respect that a lot
I must be from a mirror universe where Riker was given the powers of a Q, and still has them, despite writers never remembering that they didn't remove them.
So basically, DS9 shoved Q in there to draw in some TNG floaters and then realised he didn't fit the show at all so learned to never use him again. But Voyager was the 'TNG reference' show from time to time and just looked at what was marketable and wanted to shove that in where possible, but even they got the message eventually, just doesn't seem to work there either. Enterprise were smart enough to leave well alone (but not smart enough to write a decent final episode). Then Picard season 2 was just written by incompetent writers who probably had good intentions but just can't write a TV serial for toffee.
I know you derided Q's existence as a Non-linear being, but I think leveraging that could have made for a good couple episodes of season 2. I think they should have had Q's first meeting with Picard in Picard season 2. Him meeting a human who transcended from human to android, could be the reason that Q first took an interest in Picard in the first place. Picard existing as and android could pay off the "the unknown possibilities of existence" line in all good things. The fact that Q first meets him in the future could also pay off the "you'll find out" and "if you're very lucky I might drop in from time to time" lines. Also I said good couple episodes, because that is really all Q is good for. Stretching him out to an entire season ruins Q. He needs to be used sparingly, to keep the joy of "oh cool it's a Q episode"
Savage comment on Star Trek Picard. Well-played. And yes, for me it's Christmas, but for the next day or two , I am eating nothing but turkey sandwiches, with sausage stuffing. Damn, I'm hungry now...
No matter when someone is talking about new Trek, I am happy I only saw 3 or 4 episodes of discovery and decided that it was not for me. Didn't even bother with Picard.
The Ancients in Stargate were modelled after Q. Daniel Jackson in the to the Ancient diner, meeting the evolved Anubis. Was very much like the Q and the Grey in showing the place the Ancients/Q lived
Q's moral ambiguity is almost as important as his comedy. He operates on a completely alien set of rules from us and that's really important to making the character work. I also think a better use for him on DS9 would've been him encountering the wormhole aliens and being genuinely afraid. It would've been something new for him and also given an early clue that these aren't simply "sufficiently advanced aliens."
I always thought of Voyager's Q2 as a sort of inversion of "The Squire of Gothos", where the main cast knows their dealing with a impetulant brat with god powers from the start and manage to turns things around through the power of empathy and good moral fiber. As a send off episode to The Q and to Omnipotent Alien entities in general I thought it was a fine enough episode to end on.
If _Death Wish_ is perfectly reheated day-old egg fried rice, then Season 3 of Star Trek Picard is like a Korean War-era army ration pack. You might be able to drink the stale coffee, but the rest of it will just give you serious food poisoning.
Never understood anyone who didn't like Qpid. I am a sucker for Robin Hood stuff, though...and especially any Robin Hood stuff that references specifically the 1938 Errol Flynn film.
Q had the best line of the series when Q junior was aboard Voyager. He had conjured up a few Borg Cubes and daddy Q comes back and gets rid of the Borg and says “If the continuum’s told you once it has told you a thousand times DON’T PROVOKE THE BORG!” But really any Q outside of TNG was not good.
There were plenty of hits and misses. But the line "they have Q weapons" when they take part in the civil war did it for me. The way they showed the continuum was a point of no return. Trying to translate al powerful beings interacting to something humanoid can understand is more than a stretch on its own, but why they pick a style from earth 500 years in the past? Little left of the 4th wall at that point, that was something the writhers liked, makes no sense for the crew.
Voyager the answer is always Voyager. But here's a controversial take- I *liked* season 2 of Picard (the main points anyway, the A-plot) and thought it was a great way to pick up on that one Voyager episode that was good with the idea that our Q had decided to become mortal or to exhaust himself in some way-- "now there was a Q that was truly irrepressible".
You say that Q’s motives in “Tapestry” being unclear are to the episode’s strength. I think they should have used that repaying-a-debt motive from “Qpid”. It would have made far more sense in “Tapestry”.
Your mention of the comet in the intro reminded me of the link between comets and high quality Trek you pointed out whilst reviewing SNW. I know know why Year of Hell truly rubs you the wrong way, Chakotay talks about destroying a comet in that in order to improve history. Such a slap in the face to a Trek tradition.
I just realized, Q was a TTRPG game master who had the power to pull players into his campaign against their will. At least that's how he was in TNG. Less so in other series. But I think the real purpose of Q in TNG was to help humanity evolve to where they could eventually join the Continuum or perhaps even become the Q Continuum. Of course, that's my own head canon, so I don't expect anyone else to agree with me necessarily. In that interpretation, Q realized that Sisko was not going to be a suitable vessel for that purpose. If I squint I can kind of see that going on behind the Voyager Q episodes, but you really gotta want to see it. No amount of vision correction can get me to see that in the Picard Q. Queue does show up in another series. It's Lower Decks, but having already been ruined by Voyager, he was a ripe target for LD-style hazing.
I've always felt that in "Tapestry", the reason Q saved Picard, because of that "glimmer" of humanity (actually, more like a... residue), was because Q felt he owed one to Picard for saving him from the Calamarain in Deja Q. Any others?
Picard could have turned it all around by going in a completely new direction for the franchise, but they blew it When Q shows up at Picards house Q: Ah, Mon Capitan! How good to see you! Picard: Q?!? I never thought I'd have the misfortune of seeing you again. Q: My Goodness! Fluttershy never minds when I drop by her house for tea Picard: [now shouting] What the hell do you want, Q!?! Q: Tsk tsk, such poor manners on seeing one of your dear old friends whom you haven't seen in-- Picard: Q, you are certainl-- Q: Tell you what, Jean-Luc. You're fond of equines and you certainly have a lot to learn about the magic of friendship. I'm going to take you somewhere so you can learn from the Princess of Friendship, though it may be a bit more...two dimensional than you're used to. PICARD: [speechless and looking confused] Q: See you on the other side... Scene: Equestria
Great video. I was old teen/young adult when I first watched The Q and Grey and while I liked the idea of the Q continuum being at war and their actions having stellar consequences on our plane of existence, the whole baby story was stupid. It would have been better if the Q saddled Janeway with the role of an impartial mediator to the conflict given that it was her mediation with Quinn that lead to the whole mess vs. Q just wanting to get it on with an Earth girl (and why Janeway over Vash?). It could have given more depth to the continuum and different Q personalities. Heck, they could have brought back Corbin Bersen. Star Trek Picard is one of the worst series ever created and you can't watch season two without thinking you're stroking out the whole time because literally nothing makes sense. Even season 3 sucks once you get off the memberberry-induced dopamine high. Also your thumbnail for this video looks like two columns of text that read "Which series ruined Q?" and "Star Trek Actually". I read that and was like "Technically that's 100% correct."
Q’s appearances in Voyager proves that John Delancie is a superior actor to the entire cast and that nobody ever thought the events of one episode should have any influence on another one. Janeway’s decision to turn down getting her ship and entire crew home while refusing to let a Godlike being die should have been worth a court martial.
Déjà Q: Q is stripped of his...right to wear whatever he wants, if he wants at all, and gets the ugliest jumpsuit the crew could find in the replicator database. Best decision ever. 13:43 - You can make this a slogan for a cloning facility: "Human Clone V 3.2 - Now comes with morality!"
Aside from showing how different Sisco is from Picard, the two scenes between them are also used well to advance Sisco's character arc in the pilot. Going from bitter, not wanting this position she's been assigned, and lashing out a bit at Picard even though what happened wasn't really Picard's fault. Then he goes through a character arc and in their second scene is enthusiastic, wants the position, gives a respectful handshake to show that he doesn't resent Picard, etc. Where as, as meme worthy as Sisco punching Q was, I feel like Q-less should have just been a TNG episode if it had to exist at all. As we should remember that TNG was running concurrently with the first half or so of DS9. By the time Voyager comes around, TNG is off the air. So it would make sense, if someone REALLY wanted to do a Q episode, they would have to make it in Voyager. But there's really no reason that following the Q/Vash story couldn't have been on TNG. Though yeah I suspect these outside of TNG episodes were more attempts to bring in TNG fans than the writers having a great story idea in the first place.
An episode where Q experiments how far he can push sisko would be entertaining.. since he was suprised that he hit him... I wonder if Q was amused by Sisko or didnt like how he was displaying humanities 'civilised evolution' as much as picard did so he dismissed him.
The producers of Voyager. First, they were that butler you referred to, pushing the show to use the leftovers. Second, you can tell that they didn't hire any comedy writers for the Q episodes. I agree with Jessie and Vera that most sci-fi writers are not comedy writers (I've been listening to back episodes of their podcast What the Frell/Jumpgate at work). John De Lancie is an incredible comedic actor, and can elevate not that great writing, but the writing for Picard . . . nah, he couldn't save that. Some of the episodes of TNG you mentioned were relatively weak writing that John managed to make enjoyable. As for The Q and they Grey, I wonder if the original pitch was for Q to pull the shame trick that green ball of energy did to Troi in The Child, TNG season 2, episode 1. The fact that Q is caring about Janeway's consent seems out of character, responsible storytelling, but out of character. It also makes the attempt at humor fall even flatter, as the waffling between serious stakes and intentionally bad misogynist seduction is jarring to begin with. Why he even bothers makes me question the show itself, and just takes me out of the reality of the story. Additionally, the humor is directed in a way for the audience to laugh at Q, rather than with Q at the Starfleet crew. That is where the limited humor in the better Voyager episode Death Wish resides.
A war in the Q Continum could have been a really good arc in almost any other show. Hell, it would have been better than the 'Temporal Cold War' in Enterprise. The Q deliberately trying to prevent the Federation so Q would never have met Picard while Q used Archer as a pawn.
fun trivia: early 80's hijinks from John de Lancie caught the eye of fans of Days of our Lives as the character Eugene. sadly the knuckleheads at dool ruined him, so he was written out.
I always saw tapestry as character development for q, moving away from the role of an antagonist and more towards a mentor role for Picard, which he continues in all good things
I live my life chasing a feeling that comes even 1% close to the feeling of self-satisfaction that Steve felt when he perfectly set up that Butler pun at the end
21:26 You’re right to criticize the hug, Steve, but not for the reason you said. It’s not that it makes no sense for Q to express affection towards Jean-Luc. It’s that Picard should not be reciprocating Q is a being who constantly forced Picard into danger. He casually threatened Picard’s crew, and even caused a few of them to die. And when called out for doing this, Q dismisses without a hint of remorse. Picard should not be saying goodbye to Q like an old friend.
Q fits perfectly in the TOS-TNG era when plots could focus on weird unfathomable cosmic entities that are honestly more fantasy than sci-fi. DS9 onwards feels a bit more grounded (besides the timeless wormhole alien gods) and Trek gradually got darker (Dominion War, Xindi arc, TNG movies, Discovery, Picard). Q just doesn't really fit well into the vibe of most of post-TNG Trek, although maybe the next upcoming Trek comedy series could give Q a chance to be funny again
The fact that Janeway had not one, but TWO Qs ask her to arbitrate their dispute and couldn't get a promise that the winner would transport Voyager home (ending the series, I know, but still) is what turned me off Voyager once and for all. I enjoyed the argument of the right to life including the right to end it, but it was clear at that moment that Voyager would be a "Gilligan-of-the-week" show where every episode would feature someone in the cast being uncharacteristically stupid and ruining yet another chance for them to get home. (I understand they eventually stopped with all-or-nothing episodes and wrote episodes that resulted in them getting x years closer to home-thus allowing Voyager to win yet keeping them stranded for at least one more episode until the Professor finished building his quantum warp drive out of coconut shells-but it was too late for me.)
27:05 you could’ve just put the MCU logo on the background and be done with it, but I suppose that would’ve been actual spoonfeeding on your part, so I just gotta give you kudos to your self-restraint and your more subtle and superior scriptwriting
"Star Trek episodes featuring comets are always good."
Is that why DS9 is the best series? Ever episode has a comet in it, assuming the opening credits count.
@tweekins this is also why ENT was great too... although too short
I personally don't think DS9s Qpisode was trying to present itself as "hey look we're like TNG, here's Q" but rather the opposite. Q tries to be humourous but Sisko almost literally tells him to fuck off. TNG has it in a frenemies way where Picard puts up with Q because of his character, while Sisko just punches the guy and tells him straight out that there is no way he is dealing with him
Yeah, that was my read on it too - Sisko had _no_ time for Q's shenanigans, and Q saw he wouldn't have fun.
I think there's a definite effort to say "this isn't TNG" for sure, but given how many TNG characters show up in Season 1 of DS9, there's also a definite effort on the part of the writers to try and encourage TNG fans to give the new show a go.
My guess is you’re observing a tension between a network mandate and the writers agenda. The network wanted Q to draw in TNG audiences to its first spin-off. The writers were trying to establish their distinction and independence from TNG and went out of their way to lampshade that with Q calling it out with Sisko despite having to do a Q episode they probably didn’t want to.
Yeah its there so Sisko can say "I'm not Picard!"
Sisko is Picard's foil, like DS9 is TNG's foil. Perhaps DS9 Q is TNG Q's foil too.
Before watching: Voyager. Definitely Voyager.
3 minutes in: AH-HAH!
Yuuuup
At the end: AHHHHH HAAAAAAAAAA *Wheeze, deep breaths* Aaaaaaaaah!
Yeah, but Q's wife was hot... wait Worf's wife... Worf's baby mama... whatever, she's hot!
Respectfully, disagree!
Breaking Bad, his daughter's death really hit him hard.
This is my head cannon for the end of Q. He becomes human at the end of his life as a Q. He ends up taking his own life after the death of his daughter and crashing two planes together.
@@thoesnyder No no no, Q _started_ as a human named Eugene who got lost in his time machine, thrown back to the beginning of the universe! They missed a huge opportunity to cast Arleen Sorkin as the female Q.
@@thoesnyder I always thought he got mixed up with colourful talking ponies.
I liked him on that one billiards show as "Pool Q"...
@@KenLieck ~ And he was great with the 3 STOOGES as Curley Q
Oh come on! A Q played by an actor names Suzie? And you went with "Lady Q"? "Suzie Q" was right there!
"Suzie Q" has been used to death. I'm glad he didn't go with the cliche.
"Mary Q"?
Susie Plakson rules: a Vulcan, a half-Klingon, an Andorian (all hot), a Q and Marshal's mother (also hot).
I totally agree. It's already just like RIGHT there,but also I never miss an opportunity to work a classic rock lyric or song title into everyday conversation.
"He was ultimately reduced to just another bloated corpse with a familiar face, occasionally bobbing to the surface in an ocean of shit. But, before I get to Star Trek: Picard..."
Damn, son! 🤣
What Steve doesn't know is that he's going to cause me to work twice as hard to rationalize was Picard "wasn't so bad, actually."
I do think that some future episodes of SNW, or whatever, are going to have to "re-visit" Season 2 of Picard to try to make it make any kind of sense. Season 1, whether you like it or not, had a fairly clear conclusion. Season 3 was of course just straight-up fan-service and tried to tee-up the Seven spin-off. Season 2 on the other hand is just a Pandora's Box of WTF.
I had to pause the video to properly guffaw at that one, myself! 🤣🤣🤣
@@texasyojimbouh no, there is absolutely no reason to revisit ANYTHING from Pic S2 ever. Best to have collective amnesia.
@@dankoba1 my favourite conspiracy theory (disclaimer: it’s my theory, I made it) is that Picard was designed by people who wanted to ruin Star Trek’s heritage - a powerful legacy that sets expectations for society’s future. And yes in case you’re wondering, I actually wonder if someone talked up George Lucas’s ego when writing Phantom Menace, because that was a measurable impact to damage Americana, America’s popular culture.
@@whophd ~ Your conspiracy theory is like something out of Qanon..
(Sorry, couldn't resist)
I still maintain that Steve's feelings about Season 2 of Picard come down to it being the product of Q showing up to Steve one day and being like "What would you actually like to see in a Trek show?" and him responding with a "If they're going to bring back classic characters, I want to see it focus on exploring completely original ideas with them rather than anything nostalgic" and Q smirked at him, said "You didn't say any of their motivations needed to make sense" and did the little flashy swoosh, and Pcard S2 popped into existence
"Did the little flashy swoosh" is my favorite description of all time. Well done!
You know those movies like Star Trek TMP or Tron which fail as storytelling because they go to the awkward conversation phase with something like half a dozen potentially really interesting philosophical questions or ideas but never go as far ask asking any of them out on a date, let alone pursuing a relationship? Star Wreck Picard season 2 is that, _agonizingly_ dragged out to ten painful hours' length. Followed by the realization at some point that the potential is only there by accident because whoever's writing this trainwreck couldn't write a believable story about the sun rising tomorrow morning.
At least that would make sense - still waiting on a star trek show based on moral choices more than personal trauma (especially unresolved trauma). It's like Deanna was the only damn counselor in the whole galaxy, and she was about as good at that as piloting!
Not only are Q's motivations in Tapestry ambiguous, Picard and Riker are not even entirely sure if Q even did anything. Picard considers if it was all a death bed dream his mind concocted.
PS. What the biggest Q fails seems to have in common is that they are rehashing what he's already done but poorly. The DS9 episode is a test involving whether Sisko can figure out that the auction items are life forms, like Picard had to figure out the same is true of the star base in the pilot. Taking away the powers of Q's son, forcing him into a situation where he has to prove to be selfless, is a lesser version of Deja Q. Picard's season 2 is a lesser version of Tapestry and so on... Voyager's Death Wish episode has a lot going for it because they were true to Qs character while doing something new with it.
Q's attempt to impregnate Janeway was just a repeat of him getting in bed with Picard, etc.
Death Wish is the only Voyager episode I would genuinely want to rewatch. It's sad, and funny, and shows a very different side of the Q that could've been something fantastic. de Lancie is at his powerful best and the depressed Quinn is deeply relatable to anyone who's ever battled depression.
Edit: Imagine how much better Picard S2 would've been if Q was his usual chaotic troublemaker self the whole season, and then at the end he admits he's dying, he's afraid, and he wants Picard to be with him when he passes so he knows someone will care.
I loved "Q"/Quinn from voyager, too. A great episode on choice for dying.
My favorite Q storyline is when he took a break from bothering Starfleet captains for a while so that he could play pranks on a bunch of colorful ponies.
He plays a great character in StarCraft II. Alarak.
@@NoSlow78StarCraft II was my favourite episode of My Little Pony.
The great thing about Q as a character is that, because of his god-like powers, it could easily be headcanoned than EVERY John DeLancie appearance in anything ever, is just Q exploring the multiverse/humanity's timeline and inserting himself as desired. I consider his appearance in Breaking Bad very much an instance of Q trying his hand at being human, for example. And his appearance as Discord in My Little Pony does nothing to disabuse me of this notion :P
@@AdamMerdy123 I'm going to have to work hard to headcanon his character in X-COM 2 into Q, but I'm up for the challenge!
I audibly gasped when I heard that voice in season 2 of MLP
KARR was even voiced by Peter Cullen, AKA Optimus Prime.
Season 2 of Picard was basically just a big prank that Q pulled on all of us. It's very meta.
It's the best season of Picard
@@Soguwe Which is a compliment akin to "it's the tastiest dog turd."
@@Soguwehey season 1 was a) coherent [unlike 2], b) trying to do something original [unlike 3], and c) gave Data the on theme send off that Nemesis had denied him without rendering past events meaningless.
It was not a consistently well executed season. But I think it’s better than either of its follow up seasons.
I did find the idea of a civil war within the Q continuum causing an uptick in supernovae to be REAL interesting. Probably the most interesting thing about the arc.
But like all things Voyager, the idea exceeded their ability to expound on it. It only ever amounted to "huh, that's weird".
When you say it out loud it sounds cool and interesting.
Imagine if they kept that idea in their back pocket and made it a movie instead of Nemesis. Honestly, I’ve annoyed myself with this beautiful aborted timeline. Movie budget, a proper swan song between Q and Picard and a Trek movie that isn’t a weak Khan rip off. The best timeline.
Plus, it explores the consequences of Quinn choosing to die.
Q in the old video game "Star Trek: Borg" is perfect, he's utterly hilarious. I would heavily recommend playing it yourself or watching a playthrough of it to anyone that wants some more prime Q. (it's remastered online I believe).
I'd argue Q was in DS9 exactly to show how different Sisco was from Jean Luc.
To quote Q: "Jean Luc never punched me"
I don’t think that’s why he was there - I’m sure it was a network mandate to draw in TNG audiences. But that’s what the writers used the mandate to do rather than be shoved in a TNG shaped hole.
"I'm not Picard"
I liked how Picard's rank meant nothing to Q so he always just called him by name. I also like how he called him by his surname to other people but Jean-luc face to face.
Star Trek: Lower Decks is off the hook. *whew!* “What is humanity all about? It’s puzzle time! It’s puzzle time!”
To be fair they are just cameos making fun of Q guess staring in star trek. If they built a show around it then it would be on the list.
@@robertt9342 Q is one of the few premises that I think Lower Decks can't possibly do. It would be a comedy character on a comedy spoof show. There's nothing to parody because he brings his own jokes.
The food leftover metaphors and Rick Berman jabs had me cracking up.
Yeah what Voyager and Picard did with the character was just tragic
I always felt in DS9 they should've established Qlessness by having the Prophets directly intervene in his shenanigans and basically boot him, hammering home this isn't TNG and that this is our backyard.
It always kinda bothered me that Clarktech aliens never interact with each other in this franchise
There’s a fanwank interpretation that definitely isn’t what the writers were thinking of the time, that what had actually shocked Q was not that Sisko had a thrown a punch but that the punch had connected. Because that shouldn’t have been possible - except Sisko isn’t entirely mortal and is partially extratemporal himself, and that’s when Q realized it, and quickly covered up that he was afraid.
It would explain why his response in that moment implies an interest in Sisko but actually never interacts with him again and never comes back to DS9.
@@glamourweaver Which means Riker's line in Q-in-law still works because he was briefly empowered by the Continuum. He can punch Q if he wants!
Q as a character is essentially the Trickster Archetype. When the writers forget that, it all falls apart.
The female Q is superb with her put-downs: "What are you doing with that dog? I'm not talking about the puppy."
Karen Walsh?
Any long-recurring villain/antagonist gets sweaty after a while, and Q is no exception. Just like how the Borg went from nigh-unstoppable nightmare creatures to become goofy zombies that Janeway could give sassy retorts to, Q became less threatening, less funny, and less interesting the more we saw him. Exposure ruined Q.
Exposure on _Voyager_ specifically, but, you know.
The nail in the coffin was Picard. The writers never understood Star Trek.
Well, you're not wrong. I am a sucker for manufactured wholesomeness... occasionally. 🤷🏻♀️ So shoot me
Same hat.
The Q and the Grays concept of bringing in a new Q with the human perspective and empathy sounds nice but I’m guessing Olivia D’Abo’s character didn’t last long in the continuum then?
Maybe, but Q thought the continuum needed the qualities that humanity itself not just their upbringing would provide…. Either way Rogers should have performed the same function that Qunior was designed for…. Unless she was indoctrinated, or chose to leave. A baby q in the continuum would bring the change (for changes own sake) q wanted, where as Rogers grew up on earth.
Picard season 2 is so strange. I'm certain that it must have made sense at some point. There are a bunch of plot hooks that are implied and never shown. Characters take action for no reason, as if there was a scene that gave them motivation which was cut, or someone forgot to film it. I have two theories:
1: It was originally longer, possibly set in different time periods. For example, one of the children being deported was an important engineer in the building of the rocket 30 years later. Rescuing them then makes narrative sense and tells the moral that I feel they were groping for. For whatever reason this was cut down to favour the A plot featuring Picard, they couldn't remove all the B plots because then they'd not have used any of the other actors which leaves us with vestigial scenes just hanging around, having car chases for no reason.
2: Someone was walking through the studio with a bunch of prospective scripts for Picard season 2. On their way to a pitch meeting. They trip over Alex's doll collection in a hallway and the scripts go everywhere. Frantically they grab the pages from the floor and in their haste assemble the script for Season 2.
"Qunior" absolutely slayed me
So true, Sir!
To me, Voyager has always felt like a half-baked, almost like we're seeing "test" versions of the episodes that need a bit more work. Yet, that feeling lasts the entire show. It should have been allowed to have ongoing arcs and story lines. (AND AT LEAST SHOW THEM GETTING HOME, PEOPLE.)
It's a shame. Still, "What are you doing with that dog?" / "I'm not talking about the puppy" is one of the best burns in all of Trek, and no one can change my mind on that.
My gramma was this tiny little woman who was painfully polite, and yet frighteningly strict. She was religious and practical. One day she starts asking about a TV show. To describe it, she says in her accented English, “You know…the one with that Kit car.” She laughed (a rare occurrence) and said, “I love that Kit car!”
😮
Thanks for sparking the memory, lol
I have to say, as much as I like John Delancy, I never liked the character of Q.
Yeah, I always thought Q is the worst idea with prominent presence in all of Star Trek.
There are lots of other silly things, but most of them appear only once and are never mentioned again.
Honestly, my suspicion after going through a lot of Star Trek for the first time in the last couple years is that it's not that Voyager (or any other show) ruined Q... it's that Q wasn't actually that good in the first place. Jon De Lancie is good, but the thing that made him work in TNG was that his chaotic cynicism was a perfect counterweight to Picard's (and the rest of the Enterprise's) professional, orderly idealism; he's a wacky neighbor, he's basically Star Trek's Kramer, and that dynamic had some fun strengths to it both in just pure interpersonal dynamic and in unusual questions to ask.
That's a dynamic that doesn't necessarily swing with other casts, especially ones that themselves got more chaotic. Deep Space Nine was already a lot more cynical and chaotic even in its seventh episode, there was nothing Q could provide that Quark and later Garak couldn't just do better; Voyager's cast is already grappling with the sorts of questions Q could occasionally provide, and just doesn't have the bandwidth to deal with his bullshit; the horrible new 'it turns out Q's sexist as hell' angle they tried to inject with his relationship with Janeway was by far the worst part, but he wouldn't have worked anyway.
...and all of that's honestly putting aside that I don't know if Q's track record was all that good in TNG, either. Like, Qpid is terrible, I'm not sure True Q is much good, and even in his best episodes he's essentially just a way to make Q Who and Tapestry happen, rather than an actively positive element of either.
Just want to point out that the intro comet in DS9 did not save "Move Along Home."
Checkmate!
I think that you meant to say, "Allamaraine!"
Q's Lower Decks cameo should at least get an Honorable mention as not being the worst Q episode.
I am one of the last surviving Voyager defenders. The rest of us died in the purge. Voyager has a ton of good episodes throughout its run. Year of Hell 1&2, for example.
I gave VOY a rewatch after getting into Prodigy this summer and I gotta agree, it's not nearly as dogshit as many have made it out to be. "Retrospect" notwithstanding, , nothing about that show was as asinine and insulting as S2 of Picard was.
I have to disagree that Q's use in Voyager was the ruination of the character. Yes his outings were mediocre, but the real offense was how the writers of Picard did not understand what made the character work, plus set up motivations that were confounding. Think about this: if Voyager never happened, the writers of Picard would have probably made the same stupid choices. I didn't see any trace of Voyager's fingerprints on the Picard version of Q
Xena/Hercules had Autolycus.
Dang, that's a deep cut. Totally agree!
Even more so than what you explored, "The Q and the Grey" is philosophically off-putting. Their continuum was always somewhat aloof and mysterious. The way Q called humanity a 'savage child race' in the TNG pilot indicated that his people were far, far above the sorts of petty squabbles that consume us-- the sort of conflicts we want to be better than. Even through all the mischief and puzzles, there were strong hints that knew something about the goals humanity should aspire to, something we were waiting to unlock. With this episode and its civil war, we were shown that they have the same inane and destructive internal conflicts that we do, and that they don't even ask if there's a better way. They don't know anything that we don't. Those lofty Trekkian aspirations they've been hinting at? You can forget it. It's a huge letdown. I think this is at the crux of why this episode, more than any other, ruined the Q.
Short answer Picard. Long Answer probably Voyager?
I have a headcanon that Q jumped universes after his last appearances in Picard... And landed in My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. One of the villains in that series is literally the embodiment of chaos, was voiced by DeLancie, and he even snaps his fingers with a flash of light to alter reality.
Silly? Yes. But still a better send-off to the character than Picard Season 2 😂
Q dies and Celestia is there in the white void. "Welcome to the afterlife, Q. You're dead. I'm god. Oh, and Melony says hello."
"I suppose I deserve this, all things considered."
"Oh yes, Q. You deserve exactly what is about to happen. I sentence you, Q.... TO LIVE! Welcome to your new life as a comedy relief antagonist in a universe dominated by magical ponies."
"Am I learning my lesson doing this?"
"Yes, usually at least one lesson a week. Be grateful. If some very important people hadn't spoken on your behalf, you'd be dealing with some Swollen Eyeballs right now."
I remember Discord
Chef's Kiss to all the food puns and left overs analogy.
Trick question! TOS ruined Q with The Squire of Gothos, whiny from the beginning. Never figured out why Roddenberry thought he was a great plot device.
Boring as a plot device. Funny in moments, sure.
I disagree, but I respect the stance! 👍
In Year of Hell, Chakotay explored what would happen if he used the weapon to eliminate a comet.
I remember the bad taste the Voyager episode Threshhold left in my mouth. I was ready to give up on Voyager for good, but Death Wish convinced me to give it another chance. I love all the Q episodes on TNG, DS9, and Voyager...but even John de Lancie's charms can't redeem the terrible writing on Picard. Almost nothing can.
Having not watched Picard I can't imagine Q saying to anyone "You're my favorite" without being sarcastic.
Thanks
Despite the mixed nature of his Voyager appearances, I’m really hoping Q returns in Star Trek: Prodigy. After his Lower Deck cameo, seeing Q powers in animated form AND a Voyager reunion would be too much fun.
Wasn't Prodigy cancelled?
I hope to never see Q again.
@@ammo7 Netflix picked up season 2 but we don’t know the status of season 3.
Oh GOD no ☠️
If he _does_ show up, I hope Janeway kicks him in the nuts
You're right steve. Bester never dissapponts.
You could easily retitle this video “Reasons why Tapestry is f@cking awesome”. Now I gotta go back and do a rewatch.
The whole 'Picard' season 2 thing felt to me like the writers said, "Let's have Q show up and be a d!ck, the fans will love it. We can think up a good reason for him to be there later."
...except they never thought of one.
I always thought Q should have referred to the Prophets in the DS9 episode. He could have said something disparaging about them living in a wormhole and been disgusted by their relationship with the Bajorans and Sisko, and maybe imply they aren’t very powerful. Then at the end of the episode we could find out that the Prophets did something that prevents Q from setting foot on Bajor ever. I think that would have been neat. The episode was a bit slow-this could easily have been done in about two minutes of screentime.
I also feel like Qless just lacked energy overall. Q and Vash are both fun, mischievous characters, and the danger in the episode is interesting enough-how the writers managed to make it dull I don’t know.
In canon the relationship between Q and the Prophets has never been examined but in many non-canon sources (books, comics, Star Trek Online) they have a long, complicated past that now encourages them to leave the other side alone. I don't think Qless is a bad episode but it's definitely an episode that wouldn't have been made outside of season 1 (which is often the weakest season of a Star Trek series).
Say what you will about voyager.. it's still my favorite series, and it's one of the only series that really focuses on the exploration aspect, imo. Sure they are trying to get home, not much sticks between episodes, but they really hold true to the janeway is scientist Explorer at heart thing, and I respect that a lot
Nice mentions for Knight Rider and The New Adventures of Superman - two of my favorites from the 80s/90s.
You know it's a bad DS9 when you see that Sisko's head is still on upsidedown.
I must be from a mirror universe where Riker was given the powers of a Q, and still has them, despite writers never remembering that they didn't remove them.
Riker erased that episode with said Q powers, obviously.
So basically, DS9 shoved Q in there to draw in some TNG floaters and then realised he didn't fit the show at all so learned to never use him again. But Voyager was the 'TNG reference' show from time to time and just looked at what was marketable and wanted to shove that in where possible, but even they got the message eventually, just doesn't seem to work there either. Enterprise were smart enough to leave well alone (but not smart enough to write a decent final episode). Then Picard season 2 was just written by incompetent writers who probably had good intentions but just can't write a TV serial for toffee.
I know you derided Q's existence as a Non-linear being, but I think leveraging that could have made for a good couple episodes of season 2. I think they should have had Q's first meeting with Picard in Picard season 2. Him meeting a human who transcended from human to android, could be the reason that Q first took an interest in Picard in the first place. Picard existing as and android could pay off the "the unknown possibilities of existence" line in all good things. The fact that Q first meets him in the future could also pay off the "you'll find out" and "if you're very lucky I might drop in from time to time" lines. Also I said good couple episodes, because that is really all Q is good for. Stretching him out to an entire season ruins Q. He needs to be used sparingly, to keep the joy of "oh cool it's a Q episode"
Savage comment on Star Trek Picard. Well-played.
And yes, for me it's Christmas, but for the next day or two , I am eating nothing but turkey sandwiches, with sausage stuffing.
Damn, I'm hungry now...
No matter when someone is talking about new Trek, I am happy I only saw 3 or 4 episodes of discovery and decided that it was not for me. Didn't even bother with Picard.
I don’t feel he’s “ruined” at all 🤔
The Ancients in Stargate were modelled after Q.
Daniel Jackson in the to the Ancient diner, meeting the evolved Anubis. Was very much like the Q and the Grey in showing the place the Ancients/Q lived
Q's moral ambiguity is almost as important as his comedy. He operates on a completely alien set of rules from us and that's really important to making the character work.
I also think a better use for him on DS9 would've been him encountering the wormhole aliens and being genuinely afraid. It would've been something new for him and also given an early clue that these aren't simply "sufficiently advanced aliens."
I wonder what Picard Season 2 would have been if the pandemic hadn't happened.
I always thought of Voyager's Q2 as a sort of inversion of "The Squire of Gothos", where the main cast knows their dealing with a impetulant brat with god powers from the start and manage to turns things around through the power of empathy and good moral fiber.
As a send off episode to The Q and to Omnipotent Alien entities in general I thought it was a fine enough episode to end on.
If _Death Wish_ is perfectly reheated day-old egg fried rice, then Season 3 of Star Trek Picard is like a Korean War-era army ration pack. You might be able to drink the stale coffee, but the rest of it will just give you serious food poisoning.
I'd rather eat the Korea War rations than watch Picard again
Never understood anyone who didn't like Qpid. I am a sucker for Robin Hood stuff, though...and especially any Robin Hood stuff that references specifically the 1938 Errol Flynn film.
Q had the best line of the series when Q junior was aboard Voyager. He had conjured up a few Borg Cubes and daddy Q comes back and gets rid of the Borg and says
“If the continuum’s told you once it has told you a thousand times DON’T PROVOKE THE BORG!”
But really any Q outside of TNG was not good.
There were plenty of hits and misses. But the line "they have Q weapons" when they take part in the civil war did it for me.
The way they showed the continuum was a point of no return. Trying to translate al powerful beings interacting to something humanoid can understand is more than a stretch on its own, but why they pick a style from earth 500 years in the past?
Little left of the 4th wall at that point, that was something the writhers liked, makes no sense for the crew.
Voyager the answer is always Voyager. But here's a controversial take- I *liked* season 2 of Picard (the main points anyway, the A-plot) and thought it was a great way to pick up on that one Voyager episode that was good with the idea that our Q had decided to become mortal or to exhaust himself in some way-- "now there was a Q that was truly irrepressible".
Same. Funny, how it’s ‘controversial’ to like something. 😅
You say that Q’s motives in “Tapestry” being unclear are to the episode’s strength.
I think they should have used that repaying-a-debt motive from “Qpid”. It would have made far more sense in “Tapestry”.
DeLancie recently commented that he more or less thought the arc Q underwent in Pic season 2 was garbage. Hey, a job’s a job.
Just say "Picard" and get it over with.
Your mention of the comet in the intro reminded me of the link between comets and high quality Trek you pointed out whilst reviewing SNW. I know know why Year of Hell truly rubs you the wrong way, Chakotay talks about destroying a comet in that in order to improve history. Such a slap in the face to a Trek tradition.
Trekie of taste? Thank you I'm glad to be here.
I haven't watched yet, but I know the answer is Voyager. And for a change, that's not just knowing what you'll say, it's knowing it's the truth.
I dont know why but Q threatening his son with being an aprellian Amoeba forever made me laugh.
5:56 the worst part is the whole auction with vaush and quark is kinda fun they have a decent dynamic
I just realized, Q was a TTRPG game master who had the power to pull players into his campaign against their will. At least that's how he was in TNG. Less so in other series.
But I think the real purpose of Q in TNG was to help humanity evolve to where they could eventually join the Continuum or perhaps even become the Q Continuum. Of course, that's my own head canon, so I don't expect anyone else to agree with me necessarily. In that interpretation, Q realized that Sisko was not going to be a suitable vessel for that purpose. If I squint I can kind of see that going on behind the Voyager Q episodes, but you really gotta want to see it. No amount of vision correction can get me to see that in the Picard Q.
Queue does show up in another series. It's Lower Decks, but having already been ruined by Voyager, he was a ripe target for LD-style hazing.
I've always felt that in "Tapestry", the reason Q saved Picard, because of that "glimmer" of humanity (actually, more like a... residue), was because Q felt he owed one to Picard for saving him from the Calamarain in Deja Q. Any others?
Star Trek: Voyager at least feels like Star Trek unlike what we got 20 years later.
Q is now old and grumpy, it happens to everyone.
Picard could have turned it all around by going in a completely new direction for the franchise, but they blew it
When Q shows up at Picards house
Q: Ah, Mon Capitan! How good to see you!
Picard: Q?!? I never thought I'd have the misfortune of seeing you again.
Q: My Goodness! Fluttershy never minds when I drop by her house for tea
Picard: [now shouting] What the hell do you want, Q!?!
Q: Tsk tsk, such poor manners on seeing one of your dear old friends whom you haven't seen in--
Picard: Q, you are certainl--
Q: Tell you what, Jean-Luc. You're fond of equines and you certainly have a lot to learn about the magic of friendship. I'm going to take you somewhere so you can learn from the Princess of Friendship, though it may be a bit more...two dimensional than you're used to.
PICARD: [speechless and looking confused]
Q: See you on the other side...
Scene: Equestria
Great video. I was old teen/young adult when I first watched The Q and Grey and while I liked the idea of the Q continuum being at war and their actions having stellar consequences on our plane of existence, the whole baby story was stupid. It would have been better if the Q saddled Janeway with the role of an impartial mediator to the conflict given that it was her mediation with Quinn that lead to the whole mess vs. Q just wanting to get it on with an Earth girl (and why Janeway over Vash?). It could have given more depth to the continuum and different Q personalities. Heck, they could have brought back Corbin Bersen.
Star Trek Picard is one of the worst series ever created and you can't watch season two without thinking you're stroking out the whole time because literally nothing makes sense. Even season 3 sucks once you get off the memberberry-induced dopamine high.
Also your thumbnail for this video looks like two columns of text that read "Which series ruined Q?" and "Star Trek Actually". I read that and was like "Technically that's 100% correct."
12:30 i always love a good rick berman jab 😅😅
I agree about the season 2 Picard portrayal of Q! I think they said “ tapestry! But a whole season of it !” And they failed !
Q’s appearances in Voyager proves that John Delancie is a superior actor to the entire cast and that nobody ever thought the events of one episode should have any influence on another one. Janeway’s decision to turn down getting her ship and entire crew home while refusing to let a
Godlike being die should have been worth a court martial.
Déjà Q: Q is stripped of his...right to wear whatever he wants, if he wants at all, and gets the ugliest jumpsuit the crew could find in the replicator database. Best decision ever.
13:43 - You can make this a slogan for a cloning facility: "Human Clone V 3.2 - Now comes with morality!"
Aside from showing how different Sisco is from Picard, the two scenes between them are also used well to advance Sisco's character arc in the pilot. Going from bitter, not wanting this position she's been assigned, and lashing out a bit at Picard even though what happened wasn't really Picard's fault. Then he goes through a character arc and in their second scene is enthusiastic, wants the position, gives a respectful handshake to show that he doesn't resent Picard, etc.
Where as, as meme worthy as Sisco punching Q was, I feel like Q-less should have just been a TNG episode if it had to exist at all. As we should remember that TNG was running concurrently with the first half or so of DS9. By the time Voyager comes around, TNG is off the air. So it would make sense, if someone REALLY wanted to do a Q episode, they would have to make it in Voyager. But there's really no reason that following the Q/Vash story couldn't have been on TNG.
Though yeah I suspect these outside of TNG episodes were more attempts to bring in TNG fans than the writers having a great story idea in the first place.
An episode where Q experiments how far he can push sisko would be entertaining.. since he was suprised that he hit him... I wonder if Q was amused by Sisko or didnt like how he was displaying humanities 'civilised evolution' as much as picard did so he dismissed him.
The producers of Voyager.
First, they were that butler you referred to, pushing the show to use the leftovers.
Second, you can tell that they didn't hire any comedy writers for the Q episodes. I agree with Jessie and Vera that most sci-fi writers are not comedy writers (I've been listening to back episodes of their podcast What the Frell/Jumpgate at work). John De Lancie is an incredible comedic actor, and can elevate not that great writing, but the writing for Picard . . . nah, he couldn't save that. Some of the episodes of TNG you mentioned were relatively weak writing that John managed to make enjoyable.
As for The Q and they Grey, I wonder if the original pitch was for Q to pull the shame trick that green ball of energy did to Troi in The Child, TNG season 2, episode 1. The fact that Q is caring about Janeway's consent seems out of character, responsible storytelling, but out of character. It also makes the attempt at humor fall even flatter, as the waffling between serious stakes and intentionally bad misogynist seduction is jarring to begin with. Why he even bothers makes me question the show itself, and just takes me out of the reality of the story. Additionally, the humor is directed in a way for the audience to laugh at Q, rather than with Q at the Starfleet crew. That is where the limited humor in the better Voyager episode Death Wish resides.
A war in the Q Continum could have been a really good arc in almost any other show. Hell, it would have been better than the 'Temporal Cold War' in Enterprise. The Q deliberately trying to prevent the Federation so Q would never have met Picard while Q used Archer as a pawn.
Tapestry is my favorite TNG episode. Loved him on Voyager too.
fun trivia: early 80's hijinks from John de Lancie caught the eye of fans of Days of our Lives as the character Eugene. sadly the knuckleheads at dool ruined him, so he was written out.
I always saw tapestry as character development for q, moving away from the role of an antagonist and more towards a mentor role for Picard, which he continues in all good things
I live my life chasing a feeling that comes even 1% close to the feeling of self-satisfaction that Steve felt when he perfectly set up that Butler pun at the end
21:26 You’re right to criticize the hug, Steve, but not for the reason you said.
It’s not that it makes no sense for Q to express affection towards Jean-Luc. It’s that Picard should not be reciprocating
Q is a being who constantly forced Picard into danger. He casually threatened Picard’s crew, and even caused a few of them to die. And when called out for doing this, Q dismisses without a hint of remorse.
Picard should not be saying goodbye to Q like an old friend.
It's interesting that Picard who is a Frenchman didn't notice that the name Vash sounds like the French word for cow
I've been a fan of Maryland wit since I saw a "Will Rogers never met Irsay" sign at an '84 Eagles/Colts game 😅
Q fits perfectly in the TOS-TNG era when plots could focus on weird unfathomable cosmic entities that are honestly more fantasy than sci-fi. DS9 onwards feels a bit more grounded (besides the timeless wormhole alien gods) and Trek gradually got darker (Dominion War, Xindi arc, TNG movies, Discovery, Picard). Q just doesn't really fit well into the vibe of most of post-TNG Trek, although maybe the next upcoming Trek comedy series could give Q a chance to be funny again
That’s so wild, it’s been a while since I’ve seen Voyager, but I completely forgot Q showed up at all in that show
The fact that Janeway had not one, but TWO Qs ask her to arbitrate their dispute and couldn't get a promise that the winner would transport Voyager home (ending the series, I know, but still) is what turned me off Voyager once and for all. I enjoyed the argument of the right to life including the right to end it, but it was clear at that moment that Voyager would be a "Gilligan-of-the-week" show where every episode would feature someone in the cast being uncharacteristically stupid and ruining yet another chance for them to get home. (I understand they eventually stopped with all-or-nothing episodes and wrote episodes that resulted in them getting x years closer to home-thus allowing Voyager to win yet keeping them stranded for at least one more episode until the Professor finished building his quantum warp drive out of coconut shells-but it was too late for me.)
27:05 you could’ve just put the MCU logo on the background and be done with it, but I suppose that would’ve been actual spoonfeeding on your part, so I just gotta give you kudos to your self-restraint and your more subtle and superior scriptwriting
Steve's ongoing loathe/hate relationship with Voyager is the cold slice of pizza in the fridge of my heart. 😏👍