"She's just a girl and she's scared" she's a 40+ years old woman who's lived through wars and sieges and more. Holy shit that's THE most insulting line that one could say about Cersei.
Not only insulting but inaccurate. Of course it's natural for anybody to be afraid, but Cersei would either try to take everyone down with her (blowing up the city with wildfire), be delusional in thinking she'd be ransomed or not meet a well deserved end, or simply take solace in the fact that several people in the city she hates will die too. Being afraid and helpless is the last thing she'd do, mostly because she despises those qualities
@@skibobshipoddlypop very true. Honestly I'm not the type to make everything about gender but just imagine if it was Jaime in that scene, no way would they go "somehow he's just a boy" at him, like that one part particularly irked me. She's a grown woman experienced in so much conflict, fear of death shouldn't strip away her entire character.
@@FloppsEB it's not really ironic though. She never claims that she wouldn't be afraid, nor would anyone expect her to be swinging a sword and demanding they let the attackers come try to take her alive, it's just underwhelming. Because Cersei is such a rich character and so unbelievably full of poison, which is quite an accomplishment for the show, her crying and being scared is of course reasonable, and prefect plausible, but it's just not as satisfying as the Cersei we've come to know, who we would fully expect to blow up the entire city along with herself just to spite the attacker. If it was Robert crying as the city was besieged that might be ironic, Cersei inherited it without wanting to, and gave it up relatively easy for someone who would every ounce of conceivable willpower to avoid screaming if burned alive to rob you of the satisfaction. It's like Arya killing the Whitest Walker with a pretty simple dagger trick, it's not impossible but it's the least rewarding way for that story to have played out
She hatefully stares on the Red Keep where she knows Cersei hides but decide to burn literally everything around it. She decides to make it so personal she does everything she can to avoid the only person she is after. Makes total sense.
Yup, especially when she saw the Red Keep and flew there to burn it along with Cersei. And when she was halfway there, she decided to change course and fly around burning the entirety of King's Landing for 30 min? That's clearly D&D subverting expectations there. Absurd writing. Also her POV disappears for the rest of the episode.
AlinzPark The Emmys are gonna be an absolute mess this year but if Amy Adams wins for Sharp Objects Game of Thrones can win every category it’s nominated for and I won’t be mad
I actually binged watched Avatar and GoT these past couple of weeks, (just had a baby, all we can do is stream). The Juxtaposition of the Nickelodeon show outdoing the HBO crown jewel was amazing. When Azula gets named Fire Lord after all her wicked deeds, and her last image is crying and laughing as she's basically gone insane and can't function anymore after achieving her life long goal. Then you look at Cersei, who is just kinda there. Nothing really bad happens to her, except she dies. All her backstabbing and conniving gets her essentially what she wants. She doesn't even display much emotion when her last child dies. Imagine if Jamie would've returned to her just to see her frothing at the mouth trying to burn down the city like the Mad King, because she refused to lose to Danny.
zuko did go back to them tho and it was really annoying. they already started to set up his arc and then halfway through the show they just stalled it and then i just had to sit and wait for the inevitable moment when he joins the right side again. it was my least fav thing about watching avatar (which i only did recently after recommendation by a friend)
@@likeastarbaby I’d argue it wasn’t annoying at all, I think it was exactly what he needed to do in order to provide contrast for his experience abroad. He hadn’t been in the fire nation for a long time and he could see the hypocrisy firsthand. The end of season 2 was too soon for him to make that kind of earth-shattering realization
@@likeastarbaby that's exactly what makes it so good tho? The fact that they set up his arc but then he fell back. It's not linear, it's real, people make mistakes. If he never went back, it would have been his biggest what-if. But he went back, realized it was a mistake and he went back out there with a bigger determination. I'd argue its like Jaime going back TO King's Landing after being kidnapped and traveling with Brienne, and then realizing Cersei didn't really care and the right thing was to fight with the north. So, the correct analogy would have been is Zuko came back to his family and died for them after joining the GAang, like right after reuniting with uncle Iroh 💀
"Lord Advisor: I must warn you, that you are not of the order of the Red God, and you do not see the Future. And, that matter about Geneva Convention is in the future, and furthermore will be largely ignored by the victors of that time in history, who may become the losers of the future owing to their fondness for Power." ...Is the counter-speech I would put in her mouth, in reply to such an odd and out-of-universe surreal remark.
The ending of Game of Thrones honestly shows a masterclass in actor professionalism. You can see in the faces of several of the actors during the read-through along with other comments they've made after the fact (see Emilia Clarke's "best season ever!" joke) that they did not agree with the ending either, or the way their characters went. And yet, they still delivered incredibly moving, beautiful performances with the material they were given. As Lindsay hashes on during the video, that Tyrion quote about hypocritical belief in Daenerys is some of the dumbest shit to be written on the show, and yet Dinklage delivers it with such sincerity and authenticity that it almost made me agree with him.
@Anjelica Snorcket The show's issue is that they try to show houses going extinct but like Lindsey said, there are many other houses in the Reach that could take over Highgraden. The North has its lower houses like Mormont and Manderly that support its liege lords (House Stark) And so do all of the other Kingdoms. If House Tyrell really went extinct in the show then the lower houses in the Reach should be debating or at war over who gets to rule Highgraden. Bronn has no ties.
@Anjelica Snorcket How does a Bastard who has no inkling of a royal upbringing, or any idea how royal court even works, or how to RULE for that matter becomes the new lord and heir to the Baratheon name? Seriously, were D&D even thinking this when they decided "oh we're gonna make a bastard who also happens to be a bastard of an extinct house, and has no idea how lordship even works become lord of Storms End." I seriously give up with these Bozos.
@Anjelica Snorcket In the Books, Margery and Loras have an older brother who still resides in Highgraden. So if it consoles you, In the book, even if Margery and Loras die, House Tyrell won't go extinct.
Now I dont love to defend the show, but I'm pretty sure the prophecy just says she will die with the Valonqar's hands around her neck. So the embrace still fulfills that
@@calebpennell8631 In AFFC Maggy's words are "shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." So unless Jaime was doing REALLY quick work before that first stone fell... and even if he did, the show failed to show that, so happily there's no reason to defend it.
K L also there was a shot from above standing on the floor map with Cersei standing on the neck and Jamie standing on the fingers... so like even the show wanted to set it up just to “subvert expectations”
I'm years late to this take, but... Sansa's character arc honestly feels like a tragedy, of a once smart, gentle young girl being forced through trauma until she loses all of her kindness and just becomes emotionless and cynical. But instead it's supposed to be empowering?
Honestly in a much better handled story that tragedy would also make both her and aryas immediate distrust and paranoia concerning dany make so much more sense, becoming hypervigilant because of having suffered at the hands of strangers who initially were presented to them as people they should trust - but nope, we had to make them unambiguous badasses so now their distrust for dany just seems like weird, girlboss "f#ck you, got mine" attitude instead of anything compelling - like I wanted to rip my eyes out when sansa had that conversation at the feast with the hound where she legit frames her past abuse and abusers not as something she overcame but people who "taught" her how to be strong - it's just such an insulting way to handle trauma
It’s literally the complete opposite of what her arc is in the books. Her life becomes a horror show, but despite all the cruelty done to her and her family, she still believes that there’s heroes in the world & that goodness will win in the end
Yup. Hers was a story of a strong girl being broken by a cruel world, only to turn out like them in the end. While relatable, it is by no means "empowering."
It's weird too how this segment went from "let's talk about choices we made different to the books as well as the work that we did shooting this scene" to literally preemptive rebuttal.
@array s The only problem being: Not only "Dany kind of forgot" - most characters in the show forgot something, and some forgot to pack their brains for the last season it seems.
it's like the death of the author video all over (or sarah z's jk rowling and authorial intent) except instead of ruining something 'not awful' they pissed fuel on a fire, and somehow didn't singe any pubes wrt their future career at star wars
i think one of the bigest insults to female characters in the series was the treatment of brienne who after being teased by men all her life builds a bromantic relationship with jamie only to have him give her pity sex then abandon her in the same night.
and her then being distraught when he leaves? She should have been like 'you off, one hand? I assumed you were up from all the clanking. Not the only deadweight on you, if you get my drift. Off back to your sister? You are a total fuck up and you know perfectly well I could hunt you down like a dog, if I wanted, but like, I've got some tax forms to do and also Podrick's starting a podcast. See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya!'
He didn't leave her the same night. They spend many nights together. But yeah, I agree... Jaime and Brienne were so good in ep 2, and then they ruined Jaime.
THIS MAN REALLY SAID "There is something kinda chilling about her reaction to Varys dying" AS IF DANY WASN'T A 14 YEAR OLD CHILD BRIDE SOLD FOR AN ARMY OF DOTHRAKIS FOR THE CHANCE OF GETTING THE THRONE AGAIN. WHO HE CONSTANTLY MISTREATED. IT REALLY MAKES YOU THINK.
I remember in one scene, where Viserys literally said that he’d let thousands of Dothraki rape Dany if it meant he was gonna be king-yeah, I’d probably be watching gleefully when he gets his golden “crown”.
Don't particularly care for the show stopped watching when they skipped lady stoneheart, would be really disappointed if Martin never finished the story
Yes, how chilling it was when Daenerys watched on as her own brother died right in front of her. The same brother who had psychically/ sexually abused and traumatized her for years. The same brother who should have protected her but instead sold her to a barbarian war-lord famous for raping and pillaging- in exchange for a small army. So what that he’d just held a sword to her stomach and threatened to carve her unborn child out of it because the man he sold her to hadn’t paid for her in full yet! The real monster here is HER because she didn’t cry! How did we miss the signs?!
I mean, that wasn't one of the signs IMO. The real signs were all those times she said she wanted to burn everyone who stood in her way and her advisors were like hey, maybe fire should be at least solution number 2, ya know?
@@BabaCorva yeah but as Lindsay stated in the Dany section, that was only against her enemies and people of equal military might as well as when reason demanded it so. Daenerys wasn’t always compassionate but she still made rational decisions, negative or positive, and her ruthlessness extended to her enemies and only her enemies, never innocent people. And that ruthlessness is something that many other characters also dish out to their enemies. You can’t have this medieval war time code that all other characters live by and then in the last three episodes have everyone all of sudden get concerned with the cost of war.
@@BabaCorvawho were these innocent people who just wanted to stand in her way? Miri max duur? Who killed her husband and child? Problematic decision for Dany but not anymore so then Jon killing Oli. Doreah and Xaro? Betrayed her and killed her friend. Kraznys and the masters? LITERAL slaver master who have done unthinkable things to babies and innocent people. 163 great masters? LITERAL slave masters who crucified CHILDREN. The khals? Who would have done worse to her if she hadnt protected herself. Also are rapists and kill each other all the time. More slavers? Who wouldnt live in a slave free world Lannister soldiers? Because this is war and soldiers die everywhere. How many men has Jon, tyrion, jamie killed in war? The Tarlys? The ones who betrayed Olenna tyrell who they were sworn too, which resulted in her death. Not much different from Jon beheading Janos slynt for not listening to his commands, even after he’s changed his mind. She gave them a choice. And then the bells happened… where she killed thousands of innocent women and chidlren. So which one of those was the signs? Was it the slavers, rapists or soldiers who chose to die after betraying the woman they were sworn too?
Yes. Found it so damn laughable how the showrunners tried to frame this particular moment as foreshadowing in their commentary. By that logic Sansa, Arya and Tyrion were also foreshadowed to be mad. Tyrion kills his own abusive father without regret, Sansa feeds her husband and tormentor to dogs (also sheds no tears when her crazy aunt is killed infront of her), Arya avenges the death of her mother and brother by carving people into pies and having their father eat them. All of that is fine and justified BUT when Dany appears emotionless when her abusive shithead of a brother gets himself killed, now "watch out, this girl might be mad". Bruh! If you try to force your foreshadowing into previous scenes, then pick better ones and stop holding Dany up to some weird standard you don't hold others for. They are even more blatant about that later when they be like "oh Dany is turning eeeevil cuz she executed enemies who refused her offer of surrender... even though she's basically doing standard practises for this universe, even though other 'heroic' characters have done similar or worse but they are cool and righteous". Ugh! Like, I never was against the Mad Queen plot and was in fact anticipating it long before S8. My beef is not with Dany turning mad but the WAY they did it. Just so frustratingly bad that it actually made me feel sorry for Dany (and Emilia). All the unfair treatment and rushed/forced character progression when, in capable hands, we could have had such a juicy story instead.
@@nont18411 In fairness to Yara she engaged in a special mission at risk to herself to try to save Theon but by that point Ramsay had messed with his head too much.
@@pplr1 Ramsay was shirtless while Yara’s troops were fully armed but somehow they’re scared of him because he had some rabid dogs. That’s why this scene never happened in the books because it didn’t make sense.
Minlow Yeah. That character whose actions are completely dependent on my whims acted in a way that defied logic, but coincidentally adhered to the way I intended the narrative to go. Totally natural. Totally in character.
@@d3nza482Well I know I've said it in a broader sense, but it was justo a joke. Of course character can forgett things and it do not mean a plot hole, not always at least.
I love the descriptor "Her intelligence is just writer clairvoyance", because I see it so often, where a person isn't smart because of their own deductive abilities or perceptions, but because they just say a bunch of things that wind up being right. Because writers can't write characters smarter than they are
This! Exactly. The degree to which D&D genuinely did not understand the world, characters or message of the very work they'd been adapting for over a decade is still somehow stunning to me. A decade! And they just...didn't understand any of it. It's baffling.
This was the major problem with Sherlock and Dr Who under Moffat too. The first rule of writing is show, don't tell, but instead we're just told constantly about how smart and great sherlock/the doctor are, with them saving the day, but never actually showing how they really did that or showing logical reasoning for answers they come up with, they'll just literally walk into a room and go "ok I've solved it". And the Doctor would have all these scenes with aliens afraid of his reputation and he'll make some dark speech and end with "because I, am, the DOCTOR!!!" or whatever and then the day is saved If you haven't already go watch hbomberguy's video about Sherlock. It's long but it's amazing, if you love Lindsay's videos you'll love his ones (he's even in this video, he does the voice overs for the" 2 seasons earlier" bits). If you are a writer or creator it's a fantastic video to learn about some pitfalls all writers make (even apparently huge ones like Moffat), and it's just great to watch anyway even if you're not a writer. Ah screw it ill just go find the link for you: ruclips.net/video/LkoGBOs5ecM/видео.html
Unpopular opinion: this is also why I don't like good will hunting. Will just "knows" everything and has read every book there ever was, but you never see him showing instead of telling his intelligence. Also the rest of the plot I found quite melodramatic.
Pan Mantequilla It’s that and usually knocking other characters (usually men) down. Sansa, for example, only seems to outplay Tyrion because he’s taken an abrupt turn into dimwitsville, not because she’s been paying close attention to him and his mannerisms and figured out how to properly manipulate him, something that takes *time.* She simply outwitted him because he’s suddenly a moron. Speaking frankly, if you’re a woman and you’re being told that the only reason you can do something as well as your male counterpart is because he’s suddenly become blisteringly incompetent? You should be feeling insulted. When you build a character up by knocking another down, you rob people’s investment in both characters; they resent the former for “cheating,” and they lament the latter over their unfair treatment.
When Sansa called herself a "stewwwwpid little girl", we were apparently supposed to be agreeing with her all along because that was D&D's cue to make her over into their soulless cookie-cutter ~badass~
This idea of women's empowerment via the loss of their humanity is actually sexist both ways. In a story like this, it's supposed to mean something when women can match or even surpass men in the things they're supposed to excel at. But by stripping the female characters of their kindness and compassion and essentially turning them into soulless killing machines, it has this underlying message that strong male characters are defined by their ruthlessness and lack of compassion, instead of, you know, their honor or ability to put the needs of others in front of their own. Things that Jon Snow had, which the showrunners also ignored because they were inconvenient to the plot.
First she came for the slavers, murderers and rapists... so yeah, it was pretty unexpected that she suddenly decided to kill innocent people. D n' D, you understand that's not what the poem is about right?
I just heard the peasant dub at the end and asked myself the same question. And i was absolutely certain that it was you at the Anna Karenina line. You loveable devil.
I hate how people actually like Sansa's new "badass" persona... Sansa is supposed to be strong, not because of what she went through, but in spite of it. This narrative that kindness and compassion are weak is so tired... I would love to see a more reserved, cunning but still compassionate and kind Queen Sansa - like her father. That's who she deserves to be.
Writers seem to love the idea that a woman cannot be simultaneously vulnerable and strong at the same time. It’s an obnoxious and overused trope and they should learn to write female characters who can be caring and loving towards others while also being powerful. Traditional femininity shouldn’t be painted as a weakness.
I mean, this should've been Dany, wavering at one point then returning to compassion with the sparing of Kings Landing. Sansa can become the Littlefinger of the new age.
Book Sansa's journey is not the one we got on the show. She does not get tormented by Ramsey after Littlefinger encouraged the marriage between the two without realizing what a sadistic nut Ramsey was. Combine this with Sansa's somewhat trust in Baelish only to realize that he betrayed her family, in the worst way, as well gave us the Sansa we got in the end. She constantly trusted people and was burned continuously. Dany said it best when she told Jon that Sansa was not the same, especially after what "they have done to her". Even Sophie admitted that Sansa trusted no man until she reunited with Jon had this was before the Baelish revelation. She was almost there in season six, and the events in season seven sealed the deal. Anyone who believes that this amount of nonstop pain and betrayal doesn't manifest itself in some way shape or form, negatively, is deluding themselves.
Fighting "toxic masculinity" is basically making female characters with those exact same toxic traits that they hated in the guys. Kinda, "why should guys have all the fun of pillaging and murdering".
It also is so vehemently against what they did with Dany at the end (and how we were all apparently supposed to agree and be like "YEAH! OFF WITH HER HEAD!" makes negative sense. It would be one thing if they were making some larger gender commentary or something, but they're not.....if they were (lol HIGHLY doubt) then they did a shit job of showing it.
Emily Brown "AND LETS NOT EVEN TRY EITHER" like shit they can't even pronounce Missandae right...how much money did they make to literally write like a page of words for season 8...ugh
@@Ishkur23 and the one thing to keep in mind before judging them too harshly on that, IMO, is that they technically didnt sign up for "writing" plot in the first place. they were hired to adapt the story of the books for a TV series at a time where everyone involved - including them, the author, the execs.. everyone - believed that the book series would be finished before the show came to its conclusion. which you have to admit they did a pretty good job at while it lasted. only several seasons in did everyone realize that that would not be the case and they would be running out of the original material to adapt and they would have to actually write the story going forward. now i dont know why they didnt just bring additional writers on board at that point, if that was their own choice or maybe GRRM had issues with that idea, i have no idea what was in the fine print of everyones contracts in terms of that. but they didnt, and it showed. there was an immediate drop-off in the quality of the writing after they reached the ending of the books. i know people really wanted to believe that there would be an awesome conclusion to this, but the writing was quite literally on the wall if you payed any attention during seasons 5-7, which is why the eventual outcome shouldnt have been all that surprising.
Imagine someone assassinated the president, and now you're watching the trial live. They're asked how they plead, and they just say "Danny Devito should be president" and everyone listens??? Edit: On further thinking, Danny Devito actually makes sense. Imagine they say that yodelling kid from a few years ago should be president instead, that's the level of half remembered obscurity we're talking about here. No non-Starks at that meeting should give a single shit about Bran
@Sky Dome What book? Bran has no story in book 4, but it's because book 4 and 5 are the same boo cut in half, half of the characters are in book 4, the rest in book 5 ^^
@Sky Dome understandable. he was definitely joking, but it means he understands what was working and what wasn't. which now seems like a fucking miracle in light of the adaptation.
Mr Martin was referring to early Jon-chapter in the first book. He forgot to write Bran in the scene when there was a feast for the king in the Winterfell.
Agreed... Oh no Cersei decapitated my handmaiden... I have no one to braid my hair now... Obviously this has driven me over the edge... Oh Hey! Wait a minute! Now my character has motivation to burn a whole city.🙈
Tyrion in the books: "I will choke the life out of Cersei with my own hands and drown Westeros in blood and fire" Tyrion in the show: "She is just a girl and she's scared"
Also Tyrion in the show: I don’t want to hurt our family I never did! Also also Tyrion in the show: (literally shoots his father with a crossbow on the toilet)
The sheer amount of chances cersei got in the final hour of the show is the most frustrating things about it ; other than daenerys’ (literal and figurative) character assassination
@@jaysax7381 Seriously, Cersei kinda overstayed her welcome. There's a reason it's joked so much that Lena Headey got paid lots of money to sit around and drink wine for the final two seasons.
I felt genuinely horrible for the actors, such a good arc for them to play for about 5.5 years a slight decline and then off a cliff into the abyss of stupidity.
The trainwreck they made of Daeny in the show has actually made me more sympathetic to her then I am in the books ironically enough. I may not be a big Daeny fan but I'm just not in for that character assassination fronting as a finale episode.
@@AmurTiger Same, I always expected her to turn into an antagonist in the end, but not like this! I'd rather expected it to happen through the competetion with Aegon, who suddenly appears with a supposedly better claim and isn't an incompetent lunatic like Cersei, Quaithe manipulating her through dreams and prophecies making her paranoid and her accidentally burning King's Landing while invading because of the wildfire stashes hidden in King's Landing. But no, we have to turn her into Hitler.
@@lulumatthewiosi179 Yup, accidentally turning into a villain in the eyes of the very people she wanted to save... that would be a cruel fate, and definitely maddening.
This show went from a massive global phenomenon that was everywhere to just COMPLETELY disappearing from media and pop culture in general outside of mocking it. That’s both sad and amazing.
it's sad because assuming Martin eventually does finish the books, I feel like the stink of the show ending will still overshadow the 30 some years people will have waited for his conclusion
@@Ryan-pg7hi honestly I've lost all hope he'll ever finish them, and the fact that the show ending was such a disaster probably doesn't inspire him either. I honestly feel sorry for the guy, I'd hate to be in his position despite all the fame and money and fans. Imagine waking up every morning knowing the world expects you to finish something you maybe don't even want to finish anymore.
It kinda fucks me up that the show runners seem to believe that it's unacceptable to react negatively to trauma. There are multiple points where they express this, but that they explicitly said "dany was okay with her abuser dying, and that's bad!" Is eugh.
It's called character and virtue? If you are waiting to kill your "abuser" you aren't a good person you are just powerless That being said revenge is a worthy goal but it's not the most noble or virtuous, to not seek revenge is more moral and to truly forgive is the most noble thing there is Dany was justified in what she did in the world of GOT but in our world and society she killed her brother
@@PodreyJenkin138 I mean technically she didn’t kill Viserys, Drogo did, but for the sake of the argument let’s say that she did. Dany put up with her brothers abuse her entire life but never planned any retribution against him, even when she had the power to do so. It wasn’t until Viserys threatened to murder her unborn child that harm came upon him and at that point it’s not even revenge but self defense as well as protecting an unborn baby from a psycho. Even in our world and society, I know that many people would see Dany killing Viserys as justifiable and I know that because it has already happened numerous times with abuse victims getting acquitted in court after killing their abuser in verified self defense. Now if we were talking about what Sansa did to Ramsay then your argument would hold water but in this instance it doesn’t.
@@PodreyJenkin138 yes, our world. What a civilized one it is. You can look up cases of trafficking victims getting sentenced to life in prison for killing their rapists in self defense. (EDIT: I just read Dylan's comment above, and there is clearly no uniform outcome to these cases- but I feel the mere existence of verdicts punishing the victim supports my point) 'You aren't a good person you're just powerless' I agree- being a victim of abuse doesn't make you a good person, it makes you a victim of abuse, something no one deserves to be. And wanting an abuser to stop using their power to hurt people, which, as many of them demonstrate, is something they won't do, then why is it so awful to want them dead? Not just to save yourself but others from them too? Don't the powerless deserve to have power, the power to help and save themselves and others and fight their oppressors? But no, we in our enlightened world place more blame and stigma and judgement on people who even just cut abusers out of their lives and try and expose them than the abusers themselves- a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of which see a day in court, much less jail. The statistics, or lack thereof, are harrowing. I have asked the numerous trauma therapists I've been to, some of whom have represented victims in court, about that, and got the confirmation that very few are reported, and few of that few taken to court, and fewer still convicted. Forgiveness does not stop a rapist. A lack of resistance and consequences just teaches abusers they can do what they want and they'll be enabled, because their victims and everyone around them is so obsessed with being 'better' than them, as if not being abusers and rapists doesn't already make them better. As if revenge is more morally corrupting than taking no action against someone you know is harming others.
Hell, about White that would make at least a tiiiiiiiny bit of sense. Imagine it being said about TODD. You know, that poor boy, just seen his beloved uncle murdered in front of him, and then strangled, oh you can't help but feel a little sorry for him... (actually no, Todd was a piece of shit and deserved to die, just like Cersei did).
that's what hurts the most. The actors, writers THAT AREN'T D&D, and costume and set designers, the brilliant composer, the conlang teacher and everyone else had years, almost a decade of their time and effort SQUANDERED by two little pricks convinced they knew best
@@OfficialROZWBRAZEL I'm entirely convinced that even in the early seasons the whole team got sore backs from carrying the show while D&D were getting drunk and horny leering at the actresses that play sex workers.
I can't think of another piece of media in my lifetime that has gone from so culturally dominant to so completely irrelevant so fast, or maybe even at all.
"Because to D&D, female empowerment is shedding your humanity until you are a stone cold badass" **standing ovation** A little louder for those crap writers in the back! I'm sick of the so-called strong female stereotype. Female characters deserve much better.
Could not agree more. Far too often we see an attempt at representing/appeasing women, only to be left with half baked, over the top and - more often than not - cringy stereotypes.
Pay attention to how these people describe their characters, there's a reason 'strong, independent woman' is a meme at this point, more often than not when they describe their female characters this way it's a warning sign that they plan to write the most boring overused type of character in the modern era. Why don't they describe their female characters as nurturing, wise, cunning, intelligent, foolish, lustful, envious, patient, driven or any number of other descriptors. The answer is that if they are any of these things in the film/tv series/game being made it's a fortunate accident, the writers were too busy trying to make an empty shell that simply succeeds at every task with a quip or two at most until the plot demands that they fail in a way that never forces them to grow into something resembling an actual character.
I was about to ask "so what does a strong woman look like?" but I guess if we de-sex it, we can simply ask what a strong *person* looks like, so we neither fall to toxic masculinity tropes or female stereotypes e.g. The Mother/The Bitch etc
Speaking of actual D&D, my long term campaign had my friend Julia’s character, Savvy, end up with the empowering story of getting the Book of Exalted Deeds (an artifact of extreme power that you lose attunement to if you don’t strive to do good, and perform at least one charitable act a day), save the world and get married to her girlfriend. Which I feel is a much nicer story.
@@mattgilbert7347 ah yes, let's blame someone completely unrelated because i cant live without thinking that bad writing cant exist without completely unrelated political subtext. Its like a worse version of the people that acussed the last jedi of being left leaning and feminist.
It took them 7 months to build the King's Landing set... it was the shock and spectacle that took so long. The writing couldn't have taken more than an afternoon!
What really ticks me off about the whole ‘maybe the best ruler is the one who doesn’t want to rule’ thing is that the first king of the show was Robert. He hated ruling and he got the crown into incredible debt
Yes but placing someone that wants to rule is dangerous just as much or even worse, since these people will sit their to enrich themselves for most part. You have to understand that in real life psychopaths are those that search for powerfull positions for example: being a leader of a country. That are the kind of people that really want to lead and not because they want to do good, but just because they want power. They to control others. Dany didn't seem that kind of person, but saying that someone need to want to rule to be a good ruler isnt true at all either in real life. You really should chose between the people and see which person has a real purpose, to make things better for THE PEOPLE and not to enrich himself or stand their for other rich people as in America happens a lot too.
He did want to be king though. No one forced him into the role, nor could anyone have forced such a headstrong man into it. He just didn't want to bother with much of the day-to-day administration of the kingdom once he took the throne.
@@ColdSleep He didn’t want to be king, though. What he wanted was to have Lyanna Stark, and later on to get revenge on the Targaryens for ‘killing’ her. Becoming king was a side effect of that whole thing.
i'm so friggin mad they brought up the "whenever a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin" thing regarding Daenerys, when it's already made clear thematically in the first book that "the bad coin" was her brother, Viserys. She is FINE, goddamit. But, alas, I forgot, themes are only for 8th graders, so it's clearly too advanced for DnD to get that.
@@made-line7627The whole "Targaryen madness" thing was Robertine propaganda which the maesters helped perpetuate because they were scared and resentful of the Targaryens
It is a little sad when writers think the only way female characters can rise the the "badassery" standards of men, particularly men of action, is by turning them into stone-cold, hardened killers with little compassion. Men of action are allowed to be romantic, compassionate, sarcastic, witty, kind, and generous, but women of action must be tough, stony, brooding, and calculating. Why can't women of action also be romantic, sarcastic, witty compassionate, etc etc? Feminine and strong are not antonyms, they can coexist in the same body.
This is why I loved mid-series Sansa. It ALWAYS angered me that Arya was seen as the badass and Sansa was always regarded as the whiny wanna-be princess (yes, she was annoying in S1 but Arya was naïve in S1 and no one seemed to be bothered by that).
Cuz these dudes were in charge of a show that went on for 10 years and had almost 0 women directors and 0 non-white directors and then ended with dark-skinned foreigners terrorizing the poor white folk like human orcs
Uh, Brienne? Badass, noble,kind and honorable? Maybe Caitlyn? A strong, staunch mother who was entirely devoted to her family, kindly, feminine and compassionate? What about Asha? Taken in by a different culture, whom mothered, protected and looked after Bram and Rickon ; who was very kind, compassionate Or how about the literal most badass sarcastic,witty and devoted fuckin woman in the whole damn show, Olenna Tyrelle? The women of game of thrones were far FAR more exceptional than the men of the show, showing usually a broader range of emotions, motives, a plethora of personalities that wasn't 'brooding war hero' or 'intellectual but athletically compromised' . idk if we watched the same show, but it's a very bad argument. Yeah GOT Season 8 was a shitshow, but there was some amazing women in the cast. Not ever woman has to be some pillar of nobility, but to imply all women in GOT were heartlesss monsters is grossly wrong.
@@blacksesamecandies And they needed all those characters, too. Should have had Brienne die of Syphilis, after what they did to her season 8 arc. Lady Stoneheart wasn't added in.
When they made Sansa say that terrible line about being a little bird all her life if not for all the rapes, I wanted the Hound to say, “what are you now?” And then show Sansa experiencing daily PTSD symptoms and grieving the gentle, hopeful person that she once was.
It's such a bad line too because she was already so smart and so good at manipulating Joffrey. She was never going to be just some meek little bird. She only pretended to be so that she could survive. If she'd stayed married to Tyrion they likely would have become the power couple of the realm once she came into adulthood. She survived everything because she was a strong person with a strong will, who always took care of herself, and looked out for others. She risked herself to save the drunk knight, warned Margery about Joffrey's cruelty, lead the noble women in prayers when Cersei failed them. Ramsey snuffed that kindness out, and I hate to see that treated as a good thing. Her becoming like him is 100% a tragedy.
Because she's admitting that without those experiences she'd continue to let those she doesn't know, in. Outsiders caused her family the most grief and even after being traumatized and abused Sansa was still sweet, but, it was Robb and Cat's deaths that broke her. She started to lose her faith. Will she gain it back? Maybe. Only time would tell. Like....what did Sansa's trust earn her? Absorb what she went through and it's clear that she's meeting the world on it's terms, not hers. She adapted. And why is everyone only focused on Ramsey? She's including them all; Joffrey, Cersei, Littlefinger, Ramsey, Lysa, etc. Ramsay wasn't the only cruel person she encountered. And take the sexual assault out of the equation....is she wrong?
So glad Lindsay addressed the total lack of consequences for Cersei's destruction of the Sept. I remember watching that happen and thinking "holy s***, what a ballsy, desperate move. I can't wait to see what the fallout will be!" And then... nothing. Absolutely nothing. In retrospect, I realize this was where the show finally lost me. I didn't even bother with S8, and based on the backlash, I made the right decision.
Same for me, the fact that Cersei was so clearly a tyrant and yet faces no consequences for being so is where my last hope of a decent ending died. Same for the loss of the food baggage train. Without consequences actions have no meaning and without meaningful actions there is no story.
I've only ever watched the first two episodes of GOT, and this video has even gotten me pissed and disappointed. My deepest sympathies for the fans of the show. Y'all deserved better.
She destroyed the sept and the third (?) most wealthy family and all the local nobles. That is a very baller move that wouldn't even give room for anyone to contemplate any sort of rebellion. Also, I think there was a quick line about seizing the wealth of those nobles and giving it out.
I didn’t watch it either, started the first ep of S8 but as soon as they all met and Bran was like “We don’t have time for this we need to discuss this NOW” I could already tell how terribly rushed this was going to be.
Torus2112 It was actually Dany's ghost (living a second life in Drogon) completing her mission to (break the wheel) destroy the iron throne. At least that's my head canon.
Dany's "They don't get to choose": Used as a sign that she's a mad tyrant or something... Everyone in the council: *laughs at the idea of letting others choose*. But they're supposedly gonna be great for the realm.
Dany's statement was regarding every person in the entire world. Every ruler from every culture and on every continent. Their views on right and wrong, their opinions on various matters, their very existence doesn't matter. Only she matters. Therefore, she would rule them all. Because.. well, she's already gone this far, why not world domination through genocide? The council was made up of lords and ladies of Westeros, who would decide what is best FOR Westeros.. and for themselves but you know.. Simply put: A mentally unstable girl with a full-grown dragon who just burns whoever she wants deciding everything sure seems worse than a council of self-serving nobles electing someone who should decide everything.
What really gets me is the self congratulatory circle jerk the writers had about “good stories” having the power to bring people together, coupled with their absolute lack of skill and apparent disregard for their craft (themes are for book reports), etc. These guys rode on GRRM’s writing and inflated their egos so much, they genuinely thought they were top tier writers. I need, NEED them to know how much they sucked. The fact that the seasons they wrote are synonymous with bad writing and directing is the legacy they deserve. Jeez.
Personally if they wanted to move on to Star Wars, they should have just handed the role of show runners to someone else…maybe even make up with GRR Martin and have him involved again. But that would take humility and respect for the cast, crew, and their craft.
At this point it's abundantly clear what happened: GRRM heard their answer to R+L=J and thought they understood the story on an emotional level Whereas D&D thought they were just the cleverest boys for figuring it out
“First she came for the slavers and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a slaver...” 🤣🤣🤣🤣 This video perfectly sums up why the last season and the finale were so disastrous!
I mean, that part of the speech is fine. The slave masters she crucified were NOT the slave masters that crucified the slaves. There were only a few men ruling the city making that decision. The problem is that this awful brutality of hers was only demonstrated once, seasons ago. It is totally believable that since then, she has grown less brutal, through learning from her advisors. She seems to have gotten better, then there is an awkward mid-air stare where she changes her mind.
KaosOrder oh I totally agree! I just got a good chuckle from her using the quote because it points out just how ridiculous Dani’s rampage was in the last episode.
@@KaosOrder 1) They were all slave owners, though. 2) A good portion of them she crucified were indeed part of that decision There's no justification for using that speech in that context, in any way.
Tony Stark Yeah, it just revealed the truth. They can't be trusted with anything anymore. Plus, David Benioff helped write the screenplay for X-Men Origins: Wolverine.
“The best ruler is someone who doesn’t want to rule” Ah yes, the most successful king in French history, Louis XVI. Nothing bad ever happened because of him.
not to mention in this ASOIAF universe Aegon the second (in HOTD) doesnt wanted to rule either he was crowned by his mother and grandfather he never ever wanted the throne but still he was a terrible king
@@judeconnor-macintyre9874it’s funny because I have seen people argue that Robert was a good king because the realm was fairly prosperous and stable under him. But like… most of the stuff that happens in ASOIAF is either A) a direct consequence of a decision he made (like sending an assassin after Dany when he heard about her marriage) or B) an unintended side effect of his incompetence (like all the shenanigans the Lannisters get up to under his nose or how Little Finger gets the crown completely indebted because Robert doesn’t care about finances). The only reason why his reign was stable is because it was the calm before the storm. Then he died right before the shit could hit the fan and somehow none of it is his fault anymore. Good king my ass. 😤
@@Misa.misatowe as readers and those who were close to the throne knew that he was a bad king but for smallfolk he was probably the best one (some even think that Aerys would be better than the ones they have after Robbert). So yeah, I can definitely see why this argument is made
Heureka85 I could see them winning. This video is spot on [amazing] in noting that the Bran speech about the power of ‘stories’ is pretty much D&D sucking themselves off and begging fellow writers to ‘celebrate’ writing by giving them an award. In fact *that may be the single most clever thing* they’ve ever written in that regard. Self serving self service. 😂
The final message the show leaves you with is that the most important thing in the world is genetics. The Starks were our undisputed noble heroes despite of their actions, the Lannister were all traitors who were only loyal to their own family and the Targaryen have either good genes or crazy genes, and Daenerys was just unlucky and got the crazy gene. Truly a message that would transcend history....
Only Targaryen who had good genes was Jon, and that was probably more to do with the Stark side of the family and even more so with his upbringing within the family, so really all Targaryens are crazy...
Your point on Dany is so accurate. Her actions only make sense in the context of Faegon, the “Mummer’s dragon” being beloved by the people when they *should* love her
@simonmana I don't think that was meant to be disparaging. No-one nails staring off into the distance while smugly sipping wine quite like Lena Heady. Also, pretty much any other intense emotion, concealed underneath a slightly fragile, trembling forced stoic facade, paired with some nice wine and staring. Now I want to see a compilation of those moments...
$2,000,000 check actually. Emila, Kit, Nikolaj, Peter and Lena all revamped their contracts to get a higher pay. Lena literally had the best job ever! I'd LOVE to get a fat check for just smugly staring out of a window, while drinking wine.
"We can't trust Daenerys because the people flip a coin when a Targaryen was born. We can trust Jon Snow, Aegon Targaryen, because he's a Targaryen, but the rightful ruler, he's also a man, which so were the previous Targaryen tyrants, and he doesn't want to rule so therefore he's more suited to ruling... just like Robert Baratheon." Truly this is the worst logic on the series. Varys' entire character motivation for half the series is undone because convenience demands it.
@@Lord_Of_Night Only in the show. For what it's worth, in the books it's mentioned that Littlefinger was actually a brilliant master of coin, and was pretty much the only reason the realm hadn't collapsed under Robert's own lack of financial acumen.
@@ColArana Even in the show it's only Littlefingers fault in the sense that he was good at finding lenders, he didn't as far as we know encourage Robert's reckless spending in any way.
All your complaints about Sansa's path of empowerment by losing all pathos also apply to Bran. Bran as a person basically died when he became the raven-god thing and now he's basically just the same body possessed by that alternate being who has no personality whatsoever. Guess which two characters get crowns by the end of the series too lol? Also, why didn't Verys just poison her Starbucks if Daenerys wasn't eating her meals?
And Grey worm whose only remaining motivations were Danny and bloody vengance. So he kept the guy who brutally betrayed and murdered Danny alive and invited a bunch of nobles he didn't care about to discuss his punishment.
Sorry about that, I just particularly hate that one bit of disaster in the mountain worth of final season's disasters. What a moronic conclusion to end at.
The "lords of the realm choose the new king" could've been followed by a Bobby B montage too, since there was still a selection process behind him becoming the face of the rebellion. Or even a war of 5 kings montage! Nobody thought Robb, or Renly, or *snerk* Balon had a birthright claim to the throne!
merlinthetuna well actually they did, they are cousins to the Targaryens which is why Stannis believed he deserved it more than Renly, because his claim was better.
Favourite lines from Lindsay: 8:45 “Yeah, nothing. Nothing happened… the countryside was not burninated” 12:15 “Nnnope! And Guess who gets the worst subplot of all time: You do, you do!” 19:25 “Based on *what*, those dragons have the fortitude of hummingbirds” 50:33 “When she reveals that she’s actually super hitler, the hitler that fliiiiiiiieees’”
@@leirarekceb3043 "And I donnwonnahear any of that "he's in denial" crap, this... this is the ending, we don't have time for that." "Because battles are easy now. Because. We need. To wrap. This shit. Up!"
The whole ‘well look at how cold Daenerys was when her brother was killed’ thing is a particular spit in the face when you consider Stannis Baratheon’s arc. A man who literally had his daughter burned alive so that he could have a shot at power. Even he wasn’t framed as being insane in the way she was.
TenEnvelopes yeah, I never understood why she was supposed to be upset that her abuser was killed. And let’s also not forget that Stannis had his brother Renly killed.
TenEnvelopes Yeah. And above all that, her brother was just an absolute FUCKHEAD. It’s not even just the sexual abuse, but because he sought to control her, because he didn’t respect her, and because he didn’t account for how capable she was. Hell, compare him to DROGO. Drogo was a more than a little sexually aggressive to Danny too, but he was actually receptive to change, and eventually grew to respect and care for her. Her brother had no such intention.
@Frank Castle What are you talking about Stannis's ending was great. His last words were perfectly in character as was his mistakes. From beginning to end he was a emotionally-cold, rule-fixated, religiously-deluded leader.
Yeah, it's not very often that Lindsay agrees with the rest of the internet, but when she does, it's because the last season of the psychological realism behind dragon bloodlines WAS dumb as shit.
"She's just a girl and she's scared." WHAT THE HELL!?!?!?!?! That is a completely insane view of Cersei like I can see why everything went terrible if thats how they are thinking.
That was some sexist bulldoodoo. "And Jaime's there to comfort her." The fook? He's dying just as much as she is. They're both adults. Not like Cercei's ever been delicate, or like she's never been about to die before. She thought she was gonna die when Stannis was attacking King's Landing, and her response then was to apathetically drink a bunch of wine and have poison ready so she wouldn't be taken alive. She was never irrationally asking for the impossible just because she was scared and didn't want to die. She was bitter and cynical and didn't even bother to hope very much that it wouldn't come to that. Honestly. "Just a scared girl." Cersei fooking Lannister. A silly, misguided attempt at pathos by idiot writers.
Jesus Christ. Like, I can see what they were going for there. That even one of the most terrifying villains in all fiction, at the end of the day, is scared to die. Death is the great equalizer and all that. But it's so...Poorly handled.
Remember when we were all in our homes for 14 months during a global pandemic and not a single person rewatched a show that but two years prior had pop culture in a chokehold?
@@ricstubbs6802 don't try to project American history on a TV show, game of thrones is an global phenomenon and the us wasn't the only place that had slavery. Many places, still have slavery unfortunately
i never got into got, but spending time on the internet for the past 10 years i ran into GoT stuff all over the place. my dashboard used to be filled Got memes, gifs, headcanons, people discussing the plot and characters, ship wars, meta texts about the show, fanart, fanfic, cosplay, like it was unavoidable running into the fandom. kinda like how star wars, hp, lotr, and star trek always have had that presence. even when there were no stuff coming out people still talk about them and have fan theories and dreams. but after the got finale the show's fandom just collectively disappeared. like it had been wiped off the map. i'm re-watching these videos to just see what made all these fans just collectively disappear, like how badly do you fuck it up that got is now just a blip on the cultural landscape of the internet
The way GoT portrayed Daenerys as some kind of monster in Season 8 even before The Bells from other character dialogues was disgusting. I refuse to accept and believe she would burn down an entire city and thousands of innocents when time and time again she has stated she would not do that. The whole burning of King's Landing and the Hitler-esque speech was not in her character at all. It was a total character assassination. I refuse to believe it was foreshadowed or that it was always going to happen. I hope this doesn't happen in the books also.
The books present a better argument for it to happen in that FAegon may get into a war with her and that turns people against her. But not only is the speech and city burning character assassination but what may happen in the books is that a battle sets off the wildfire and that wrecks the city-not wanting to. That was actually the earlier plan for season 8 but I guess the moronic writers later realized that Jon may not agree to an assassination over something Dany never wanted to have happen in the first place thus changes were made.
@@pplr1 There’s also Tyrion’s dark nihilistic mindset and how he could potentially advise Daenerys in the books. I mean I do think the show cut a few of the dark moments Daenerys moments (ie the wine sellers daughter’s) but the main problem in my opinion is that d&d failed to realise that while Daenerys definitely has a violent side in the books they didn’t make sure that the people that are most likely going to be her advisers in Winds and Dream are also dark individuals who are going to push her further towards using violence. Having Dany get more violent just because doesn’t work. You need all the pieces for it to fully click
@@williamnissen5083 I agree with you on Tyrion and how he would push her along a darker and more violent path. And having GoT Dany go more violent "just because" it an apt way of describing it. That said, it could be that even book Daenerys is will end up doing something redemptive and thus isn't as bad as they tried to make season 8 Dany. Now we may never get the next couple of books but there are options for book Daenerys both good and bad.
@@pplr1 yeah. Tyrion will definitely be apart of it though there are other people trying to get into her inner circle that will probably do the same. The tattered prince for Example. I think Dany will give him pentos after she learns Illyrio has been supporting Faegon/Young grift over her and realises that he never expected her to survive with the Dothraki
@@williamnissen5083 Thanks fro bringing out that point. There are a number of characters and subplots missing from the books that-if applied to characters that did appear in GoT, even if briefly, really can change both how other characters would treat them but also how viewers may see them.
I think because she wanted to be this perfect ruler, never needing to make a moral sacrifice, always righteous and never bloodied. It makes perfect sense for such a naive perception of what a ruler is to devolve into tyranny when her perfect picture got burned to ashes. She did not do it to protect the innocent, she did it to protect her innocence. She did not protected her people, her “Children”, she protected her “Mother” persona.
That reminds me of Fruits Basket. The anime is awesome. However the one problem is an unsatisfying ending. I watched that first. Then I read the whole completed manga. It is freaking amazing. The story is fully complete there. :D
Father and son who betrayed their allies and murdered endless tyrells. Randall was guilty of treason and murder and she STILL gave him the option to bend the knee. WAY too lenient
@@MattAlbie Option? "Bend the knee or I will burn you alive" is not an option. "Give me your money or I will kill you" is not a choice. I think you're intelligent enough to realize that.
I would have enjoyed if a dragon burned her funions in the end tho. Its the true source of her power and the dragon in all its wisdom understands it as a metaphor
what angers me the most about jaime’s ending on a personal level is how you see this dude struggling with and because of a toxic and abusive relationship for the longest time, then he finally gets to get away from it, heal and live a little but NOO he goes back to his abuser and they die in each other’s arms, so cute like, what kind of message does that serve??
it could have been an interesting portrayal of someone who succumbs to an addictive and toxic relationship but the execution was all wrong. he didn’t necessarily have to be a redemption story.
@@gee2541 i completely agree, but if that was the case then they would’ve needed to criticise it a bit. here it’s portrayed as beautiful and romantic, not ‘wrong’ like it would’ve been if they wanted to make a point about succumbing to an abusive relationship like you said
@@marsimus13 oh yeah I agree with you. the idea and potential was there but like everything else in season 8, the portrayal and the writing made it feel unearned and rushed.
tbh i feel like they were both toxic for each other, i wouldn't describe cersei as his "abuser". i think it's more accurate to say she was tyrion's abuser. but yes, him getting away from her was the best thing for him.
The writers just got hung up on the idea of them dieing together after having previously been born together. Probably thought it was poetic. But it doesn't work because the relationship was garbage. And they torpedoed his whole character arc to get there. Even Lena Headley had objections too it but they "convinced her" to go with it.
I’ve always hated the double standards they apply to dany. they try to convince the audience that dany’s actions in essos were wildly tyrannical and we didn’t realize. “everywhere she goes evil men die and we cheer her for it”… never understood this line. like yes, she did kill evil men. why is that suddenly such an issue?? they’re making it sound like dany simply BELIEVED the people she has executed were evil, as if she was mistaken. her whole arc for multiple seasons was bringing an end to slavery. i really don’t get how they’re trying to spin that as tyrannical. she executed slaveholders who crucified children. that does not foreshadow the burning of kings landing one bit. she has shown time and time again that she truly, genuinely cares for the common people. for that reason, her sudden turn to “madness” was completely out of character and is blatant character assassination. dany really deserved better
Just the fact that Dany executing people is "bad" and "evil" when every single Stark has executed someone, sometimes innocent people, yet they're still as moral and righteous is telling of how stupid the writers are. "Jon executing a child? Fuck that kid, he deserved it! Ned executing a teenager for desertion? Maybe if you hadn't run from the cops-- I mean, Night's Watch, you wouldn't have gotten killed. Arya wiping out an entire bloodline, leaving countless widows and orphans to fend for themselves while a war is going on just as winter is coming? YAAASS! SLAY, KWEEN!! Dany executing her father's bannermen for fighting against her and the treason man who already tried to have her assassinated before? EVIL! MADNESS! SHE'S WORSE THAN HITLER!!"
"You've grown too powerful and independent of me woman, now I have to kill you, look what you made me do." Yeah totally justify a man killing his lover even though it defies both their characters.
Because D&D are very clever and need a bad excuse to make you think "oh noooo, I didn't realize I was supporting female hitler! My expectations were subverted by these amazing writers"
@@giuliaraggio That pissed me off so much I'm pretty sure the city that got sacked by Tywin Lannister, brutalised by the psycho incest bastard Lannister and then had their church (likely the only source of alms, health care and comfort for the smallfolk) exploded by said psycho's psycho mother would be happy to have the Targaryen's back if only to save them from the Lannisters.
They even seem to set it up with that whole civilians as meat shield thing which is just ultimately ignored. I don't think people were traveling to the city from the countryside like is implied in the video, rather inside the walls of the Red Keep from the city proper. Since the writers, I guess, wanted Dany to kill a bunch of innocents, she could've just nuked the keep with the thousands of civilians inside. That would've at least made some kind of sense.
It made me realize that Tyrion had to convince Jon to kill her because she always kills evil men-like Tyrion who doesn’t care about slavery and who most definitely will kill innocent women when they are a threat to him.
I feel like Catherine in "The Great" is the anti-Sansa, or more specifically what Sansa should have been. All of the cunning, the cleverness, the way everyone underestimates her because of her beauty, even her initial romantic naivete prior to marrying a childish cruel ruler. The difference, however, is that she always retains her gentleness and compassion, rather than have the writers carve it out of her in the name of faux feminism. She shows that femininity is not the opposite of power and cunning, nor is it antithetical to being a strong woman. The reason she's so much stronger and more competent than Peter is because of her empathy, which helps fuel her intelligence. Watch "The Great". It's, well, great.
I feel this way about Starlight in The Boys, too. When I started that show I was so prepared for a "naive character gets crushed by the cruel world around her" arc, but they've consistently written her as a kind and just person, and it's honestly a breath of fresh air.
I know it was mentioned, but let's take some time to remember that we started the show with "A King Who Doesn't Want To Be King" and he did a shit job of it. He drinks, screws around, mistreats his political-marriage wife, ignores the ruling of his country, plunges it into debt, and neglects to raise his children. We established in Season 1 that it wouldn't work! How would people like Varys and Tyrion (who spent the last decade watching Robert utterly fail at ruling) think it was a good idea to repeat that?
Not to mention that another reluctantly powerful character is Ned, who messes things up as badly as his friend Robert, albeit in a very different way. The first book/season really hammers down the point that reluctant doesn't necessarily mean competent.
@@kajamiletic3223 tbf I think Ned would have been a perfectly fine Hand if the lannisters weren't conniving bastards. I think there's a line in the first book/season - maybe with Jaime? where someone says to Ned 'you could have been King', with the implication that the realms would have been much better off than with Robert
See, this is where actually allowing Jon to have some freaking point of view in the matter would have come in real handy! Because I think in the case of Jon, Varys happened to be right, but it's because Jon's reasons for not wanting it were presumably toootally different from Robert's. Knowing everything we know of Jon from the previous 7 seasons when he actually, you know, got to BE a character with opinions and a point of view, it's quite obvious that he never would have been the type to take the throne just out of obligation and then be too lazy or ambivalent to actually do his best at ruling well. No, I have to imagine that his not wanting that responsibility is basically an extension of what he expressed to Sansa after their reunion in season 6: he's someone who's been continuously GIVEN positions of power he hadn't been intending or wanting, and his experience with that is that it's mostly a whole lot of fighting and feeling responsible for the security of the whole realm, and having to do things it pained him to do out of duty. So if anything, Jon didn't want it because he WOULD take the responsibility incredibly seriously (he is the most like Ned, after all), and it would always be a huge weight on him that would make him miserable. That is an entirely different form of "not wanting it" than Robert, who just kind of got bored with the whole thing and didn't want to have to deal with the ins and outs of ruling. So yes, given Jon's nature, he WOULD have been a great King in my book, and yes, part of that is because he wouldn't have been doing it out of any amount of power hunger but out of responsibility. But of course, none of that was ever delved into in season 8 because they suddenly decided, apparently, that Jon was just some mindless pushover who didn't have actual emotions and points of view of his own to express until the last episode >__< (Ugh, I'm so bitter about how dirty they did him.)
Robert would have done all those things regardless. He was highly dysfunctional and self destructive when faced with the tedium of day to day life, despite the battlefield heroics that won him the throne. That may not be the best example. John would have been much better overall, but that compulsion to act honorably would have served him poorly in the world of politics, as it did with Ned.
@@Aldowyn Yep, and also, I feel like King and Hand as roles kind of lend themselves to different strengths. Ned was seemingly a really good *leader* (which is Jon's strength as well), and that's one of the most important aspects of a good King/ruler. But the Hand role is an advisory, more behind-the-scenes one that lends itself to someone who's got the political savvy more than the natural leadership ability. Not that Ned wasn't a good Hand in a lot of ways, but he was just too naive in that environment, which isn't the right fit for the one who's supposed to be keeping the eye out. A lot of people seem to argue that Jon would have been too naive to be King, but the difference is that he already HAD plenty of people really good at the political game in his court who would gladly advise him. Tyrion and Varys (if they went back to their prime), Sansa, even Davos... he would not have been all alone in it like Ned was! And he'd be in the position where his natural leadership and ability to gain peoples' trust and loyalty would be most properly utilized. So nah, Jon would have been a great King in my book. He just genuinely didn't want the weight of that responsibility, and I can't fault that at all.
I know nobody likes 'that guy', but I'm gonna be 'that guy'. You should say "It seems oddly *appropriate*..." This is not an example of irony but aptness.
D&D totally missed the point of Arya’s character arc in the books. Arya giving up her entire identity and losing any sense of who she even is as a person in order to become a badass assassin is actually cool and awesome and it has no negative side effects. I hate how the show cut out a lot of the moments of Arya showing kindness to random people and the psychological trauma she goes through during her faceless man training and instead goes all in on the badass murdering aspect. Arya’s arc in the books is a deconstruction of the typical fantasy revenge story and shows how self destructive allowing revenge to consume you actually is. The moment when Arya says “a girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell and I’m going home” is supposed to be her deciding that her family is more important to her than her quest for revenge. In the show when Arya gets back to Westeros she is just a snarky murder machine who is still obsessed with revenge. She didn’t actually go through any progression as a person beyond learning how to kill better and that’s why her character just falls flat for me. D&D abandoned any sort of nuanced character progression and instead just made Arya a badass killer who does epic murders to get people watching the show in bars to cheer.
Her revenge quest also never costs her anything. Like if they knew they were gonna set up the Hound convincing her to abandon her list to preserve her humanity, they should've foreshadowed it by having her pursuit of revenge end up hurting her somehow later on. Like maybe she missed the Long Night battle to kill Cersei and someone she cares about dies and doesn't get Cersei.
@@jessArcade The problem is, the Hound convinces her WAYYYY TOOOO LATE. Several people on her list we have never heard from them again, and its either that Arya killed them off screen (lazy) or they kinda forgot about them (LAZY). And basically she had only a person left on the list (save from the Hound who she liked now) and destroyed a house of dozens of members if not hundreds! (Walder Frey is known for his magic rod after all)
Exactly this, but with Bran also. Like, they kept all of the weird, sinister implications of the Three Eyed Raven, and then just ignored them. It was supposed to be a deconstruction of the fantasy trope of cool magic mentor and instead highlight how power and a preset destiny being thrust upon a child is a very dangerous and unpleasant thing, but nope, Bran is just a cool psychic tree guy now (that doesn't ever do anything)! Yeah, sure, it kind of seemed like the Three Eyed Raven was trying to steal his body and take over Westeros and maaaybeee that's what happened here and Westeros might be under the rule of an eldritch, omniscient being, but like... let's ignore that! He's a cool tree-person now who can rule the kingdom! it comes down to D&D not understanding what "subversion of expectations" in regards to GOT actually means. They put in all these twists and character progressions that made no sense, but then dropped all of the ACTUAL subversion of classic fantasy tropes.
I would add that Arya is I think 12 in the books? Maybe younger? Her being a super cool bad ass assassin isn't framed as a good thing. She doesn't kill that much in the books. Arya's arc in the books is definitely preoccupied with death and trauma and revenge, but it's never framed as though she's being empowered. In fact, it shows the opposite: she's being isolated. And this is even more interesting because it implies that Martin doesn't see the ability to kill here as empowering, or else, if he does, that ability isn't necessarily a good sort of empowerment. Arya is just lonely and sad and bitter. Dareon, that singer dude she kills? Did he deserve to die? Should she have been the one to kill him? She's not "good" in the books. She's lost.
That’s probably cause there’s no Lady Stoneheart in the show, in the books she’s basically leading a campaign with the brotherhood without banners to get revenge against Lord Frey
39:48 I was SCREAMING at my screen when i saw them semi redeeming Cersei with motherhood (super cliché for women) while turning Daenerys into an irredeemable psychopath like wth!!!
37:27 I never realized how bad these two lines were: Tyrion is talking about saving the innocents of King's Landing....despite the fact that he gave a big speech about how much he hated them Jaime claims he never cared about them....despite the fact that he gave a big speech about how much he cared about them *It makes no goddamn sense*
Beware, sir: there are people who will insist time and again that Tyrion's courtroom speech was just "big talk," just a sign of him being a little angry, and that he would never actually do anything really drastic. Apparently, murdering his own father in cold blood - while the old man was unarmed and taking a shit - just slipped right by these people.
@@dominicbounds8768 Oh yeah. I miss selfish Tyrion. He only fought because he was forced to and it was either die or live to scheme another day. And that court speech was supposed to be genuine disgust, Tyrion feeling vindicated in his feelings of hate for the city because look how they treat the Dwarf who saved their hides. Regardless of his motives, he saved the city, only to immediately be reminded why it didn't deserve to be saved.
I think those are in character. Tyrion actually cares about people but he learned to put on a hardened idgaf exterior to deal with how badly he was treated. Jamie is a selfish asshole who aspired to the superficial aspects of knighthood and honor. He's going to make big speeches because that's what he thinks honorable glorious heroes do, but when the rubber hits the road, he doesn't give a shit. As for Tyrion killing his father, idgaf, it gave rise to the best line of the books which I remember well over a decade later: "And Tywin Lannister did not in the end shit gold." Also, Tywin has spent his whole life treating Tyrion like shit culminating in threatening to sentence him to death. Tyrion had spent his whole life trying to be loved by his father and finally realized his father was not worthy of his efforts. I mean, Tywin did force Tyrion to watch as Tywin had his men gang rape the woman he loved to humiliate him. That alone was justification-enough for Tyrion to kill his father.
@@dominicbounds8768 While I agree with your premise, I will never agree that Tyrion murdering Tywin, one of the most evil people in the entire ASoIaF world, is evidence of moral decline. Murdering Shae on the other hand...
0:00 Intro (Robert Caro) 2:02 Everyone Is An Idiot 4:35 Sansa Is A Hot Mess 11:34 Bronn Is Still Here For Some Goddamn Reason 14:01 Varys 20:27 Jon Snow 26:39 Tyrion: Moron 33:12 Jaime 38:35 Cersei 46:10 Daenerys 1:04:30 Epilogue: stories, endings and legacy 1:06:31 Coda (a positive note)
@@SamElKhouly "if you can't devote an entire hour and ten minutes out of your busy lives to watch a youtube video about a tv show then you're a piece of shit"
GOT was like a guy performing a magic trick by jumping off the tallest building in the world. As he got up there we were in awe that someone would do this, then he reached the top and we were in awe of their bravery. Then he jumped and we were in awe at the prospect of them dying or living. Then kept falling and we were in awe of the rush of the whole thing. Then kept falling and we were in awe of impossibility of this working. Then he hit the pavement and died.
Almost every time directors feel the need to explain character choices AFTER the show/movie has already come out, they usually spew BS because they realise their "stroke of genius" is actually either a huge plothole or massive contrivances.
For my own reference:
Sansa - 4:38
Bronn - 11:37
Varys - 14:04
Jon - 20:29
Tyrion - 26:41
Jaime - 33:15
Cersei - 38:38
Daenerys - 46:15
For my own reference 50:20
For my own reference
I need to get milk next time I go to the store.
Audrey Dozeman
Excellent playlist Audrey! AMAZING! Kudos to Lindsay for pinning this! A heart would be great too of course, but no pressure 🙂
I need timestamp for Lindsay
Audrey Dozeman Thank you. :)
"She's just a girl and she's scared" she's a 40+ years old woman who's lived through wars and sieges and more. Holy shit that's THE most insulting line that one could say about Cersei.
Book Cersei would send someone to Qyburn’s Yell-Cellar for that sort of implication.
Not only insulting but inaccurate. Of course it's natural for anybody to be afraid, but Cersei would either try to take everyone down with her (blowing up the city with wildfire), be delusional in thinking she'd be ransomed or not meet a well deserved end, or simply take solace in the fact that several people in the city she hates will die too. Being afraid and helpless is the last thing she'd do, mostly because she despises those qualities
@@skibobshipoddlypop very true. Honestly I'm not the type to make everything about gender but just imagine if it was Jaime in that scene, no way would they go "somehow he's just a boy" at him, like that one part particularly irked me. She's a grown woman experienced in so much conflict, fear of death shouldn't strip away her entire character.
one day you will be introduced to irony more formally?
@@FloppsEB it's not really ironic though. She never claims that she wouldn't be afraid, nor would anyone expect her to be swinging a sword and demanding they let the attackers come try to take her alive, it's just underwhelming. Because Cersei is such a rich character and so unbelievably full of poison, which is quite an accomplishment for the show, her crying and being scared is of course reasonable, and prefect plausible, but it's just not as satisfying as the Cersei we've come to know, who we would fully expect to blow up the entire city along with herself just to spite the attacker. If it was Robert crying as the city was besieged that might be ironic, Cersei inherited it without wanting to, and gave it up relatively easy for someone who would every ounce of conceivable willpower to avoid screaming if burned alive to rob you of the satisfaction. It's like Arya killing the Whitest Walker with a pretty simple dagger trick, it's not impossible but it's the least rewarding way for that story to have played out
She decides to make it personal... by not capturing and destroying Cersei, but slaughtering innocents that Cersei couldn't care less about.
She hatefully stares on the Red Keep where she knows Cersei hides but decide to burn literally everything around it. She decides to make it so personal she does everything she can to avoid the only person she is after. Makes total sense.
@@keay.8085
She was very sportingly giving Cersei a good chance to escape by attacking the opposite side of the city.
The funniest thing is that Cersei could run away while Dany was busy burning everyone but her direct enemy Cersei.
Yup, especially when she saw the Red Keep and flew there to burn it along with Cersei. And when she was halfway there, she decided to change course and fly around burning the entirety of King's Landing for 30 min? That's clearly D&D subverting expectations there. Absurd writing. Also her POV disappears for the rest of the episode.
Everytime i hear this sentence from this moron it makes me more angry.
Lena Headey got paid to look out a window and smugly drink wine and honestly, life goals
Taylor B
It was the appropriate reaction to the second half of this show.
Believe me, we all drank our way through the end
she'll probably win an Emmy for it, too. what a legend
(seriously, though, she deserves it for all the previous years she got snubbed)
AlinzPark The Emmys are gonna be an absolute mess this year but if Amy Adams wins for Sharp Objects Game of Thrones can win every category it’s nominated for and I won’t be mad
@@apullcan
Lena 4ever.
For perspective on Jaime’s lack of a self discovery arc: Imagine if Zuko went back to the fire lord to die with the fire nation for no reason
Christ what a failure
I actually binged watched Avatar and GoT these past couple of weeks, (just had a baby, all we can do is stream). The Juxtaposition of the Nickelodeon show outdoing the HBO crown jewel was amazing. When Azula gets named Fire Lord after all her wicked deeds, and her last image is crying and laughing as she's basically gone insane and can't function anymore after achieving her life long goal.
Then you look at Cersei, who is just kinda there. Nothing really bad happens to her, except she dies. All her backstabbing and conniving gets her essentially what she wants. She doesn't even display much emotion when her last child dies. Imagine if Jamie would've returned to her just to see her frothing at the mouth trying to burn down the city like the Mad King, because she refused to lose to Danny.
zuko did go back to them tho and it was really annoying. they already started to set up his arc and then halfway through the show they just stalled it and then i just had to sit and wait for the inevitable moment when he joins the right side again. it was my least fav thing about watching avatar (which i only did recently after recommendation by a friend)
@@likeastarbaby I’d argue it wasn’t annoying at all, I think it was exactly what he needed to do in order to provide contrast for his experience abroad. He hadn’t been in the fire nation for a long time and he could see the hypocrisy firsthand. The end of season 2 was too soon for him to make that kind of earth-shattering realization
@@likeastarbaby that's exactly what makes it so good tho? The fact that they set up his arc but then he fell back. It's not linear, it's real, people make mistakes. If he never went back, it would have been his biggest what-if. But he went back, realized it was a mistake and he went back out there with a bigger determination. I'd argue its like Jaime going back TO King's Landing after being kidnapped and traveling with Brienne, and then realizing Cersei didn't really care and the right thing was to fight with the north.
So, the correct analogy would have been is Zuko came back to his family and died for them after joining the GAang, like right after reuniting with uncle Iroh 💀
They should have considered that the best show runners would be the ones who didn’t want to run the show.
Dang, that´s a good one. How have I not heard this before.
the last two seasons felt like they had showrunners who didn't want to run this show (anymore)
Too bad Rian Johnson got there before them.
Actually that makes perfect sense, because clearly they didn't want to run this show, butfelt entitled to it BECAUSE the didn't want to!
You just won the internet.
"But your Grace, what about the Geneva conventions?"
Favorite line
Jason that was hilarious 😂
That one's great but I think it's trumped by 57:31 'They both failed geography.'
Mine is ".... she's Superhitler! A Hitler that flieeees!"
"Lord Advisor: I must warn you, that you are not of the order of the Red God, and you do not see the Future. And, that matter about Geneva Convention is in the future, and furthermore will be largely ignored by the victors of that time in history, who may become the losers of the future owing to their fondness for Power." ...Is the counter-speech I would put in her mouth, in reply to such an odd and out-of-universe surreal remark.
@@zlozlozlo YOU'RE GONNA HEAR ME ROAAAAAAAAAR
GoT fans: Why does it hurt so much???
Lindsay: Because it was real
😂 Nice reference
10/10
Because it was reeeeaaallll
When big money goes bad
*was* real...ain’t anymore!
The ending of Game of Thrones honestly shows a masterclass in actor professionalism. You can see in the faces of several of the actors during the read-through along with other comments they've made after the fact (see Emilia Clarke's "best season ever!" joke) that they did not agree with the ending either, or the way their characters went. And yet, they still delivered incredibly moving, beautiful performances with the material they were given. As Lindsay hashes on during the video, that Tyrion quote about hypocritical belief in Daenerys is some of the dumbest shit to be written on the show, and yet Dinklage delivers it with such sincerity and authenticity that it almost made me agree with him.
You know I never really thought about that before. I'm shocked by the level of professionalism these actors had. It's really incredible.
it honestly reminds me of rise of skywalker lol
@@Spider-Man_234Oscar Isaac served up "somehow Palpatine's returned" the absolute best he could.
@@jackdanielsinthelionsden1887 You could see that man dying inside. 🤣
I wonder if there's a way to recut the end and remove some scenes to fix it...
Olenna Tyrell did not die so that Bronn could sit his ass at her castle and rule Highgarden
BlueFlowwer : Lord Bronn announces - Hereon and forthwith to be known as -> *H0Garden.*
@Anjelica Snorcket I also hate how Loras was the only heir when in the books his two older brothers Willas and Garland were before him.
@Anjelica Snorcket The show's issue is that they try to show houses going extinct but like Lindsey said, there are many other houses in the Reach that could take over Highgraden. The North has its lower houses like Mormont and Manderly that support its liege lords (House Stark) And so do all of the other Kingdoms. If House Tyrell really went extinct in the show then the lower houses in the Reach should be debating or at war over who gets to rule Highgraden. Bronn has no ties.
@Anjelica Snorcket How does a Bastard who has no inkling of a royal upbringing, or any idea how royal court even works, or how to RULE for that matter becomes the new lord and heir to the Baratheon name? Seriously, were D&D even thinking this when they decided "oh we're gonna make a bastard who also happens to be a bastard of an extinct house, and has no idea how lordship even works become lord of Storms End." I seriously give up with these Bozos.
@Anjelica Snorcket In the Books, Margery and Loras have an older brother who still resides in Highgraden. So if it consoles you, In the book, even if Margery and Loras die, House Tyrell won't go extinct.
"She kinda forgot" is bad writer's code for "I completely forgot."
Did you hear about their recent Q/A session from the Austin Film Festival? It's almost career suicide from what they talk about.
Worse, they didn't forget, didn't care and expected the fans to either A. be too dumb to notice, or B. fuck off
wHaT dOesN't kIlL yOu MaKEs yoU sTrONger!!
D&D's work on S5-S8 remind me of drunk college students who forgot a massive two year project was due until the night before the final presentation
Valonqar doesn't mean "little sibling", that's a common mistranslation, it actually means "some fooking rock".
This actually made me laugh out loud :D
Now I dont love to defend the show, but I'm pretty sure the prophecy just says she will die with the Valonqar's hands around her neck. So the embrace still fulfills that
@@calebpennell8631 In AFFC Maggy's words are "shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." So unless Jaime was doing REALLY quick work before that first stone fell... and even if he did, the show failed to show that, so happily there's no reason to defend it.
K L also there was a shot from above standing on the floor map with Cersei standing on the neck and Jamie standing on the fingers... so like even the show wanted to set it up just to “subvert expectations”
They left the valonqar part of the prophecy out of the show on purpose we shouldn’t have been expecting it to happen
I'm years late to this take, but... Sansa's character arc honestly feels like a tragedy, of a once smart, gentle young girl being forced through trauma until she loses all of her kindness and just becomes emotionless and cynical. But instead it's supposed to be empowering?
Depressing, isn't it?
Honestly in a much better handled story that tragedy would also make both her and aryas immediate distrust and paranoia concerning dany make so much more sense, becoming hypervigilant because of having suffered at the hands of strangers who initially were presented to them as people they should trust - but nope, we had to make them unambiguous badasses so now their distrust for dany just seems like weird, girlboss "f#ck you, got mine" attitude instead of anything compelling - like I wanted to rip my eyes out when sansa had that conversation at the feast with the hound where she legit frames her past abuse and abusers not as something she overcame but people who "taught" her how to be strong - it's just such an insulting way to handle trauma
It’s literally the complete opposite of what her arc is in the books. Her life becomes a horror show, but despite all the cruelty done to her and her family, she still believes that there’s heroes in the world & that goodness will win in the end
Yup. Hers was a story of a strong girl being broken by a cruel world, only to turn out like them in the end. While relatable, it is by no means "empowering."
@@herloss448 That is literally her character in earlier seasons once she has a chance to learn.
I love how the behind the scene stuff, where D&D get a free pass to explain their bad writing, only ended up being a showcase of their bad reasoning.
It's weird too how this segment went from "let's talk about choices we made different to the books as well as the work that we did shooting this scene" to literally preemptive rebuttal.
@array s The only problem being: Not only "Dany kind of forgot" - most characters in the show forgot something, and some forgot to pack their brains for the last season it seems.
it's like the death of the author video all over (or sarah z's jk rowling and authorial intent) except instead of ruining something 'not awful' they pissed fuel on a fire, and somehow didn't singe any pubes wrt their future career at star wars
Ha joke is on you...They never had any pubes to begin with.
@ThisIsMyRealName Like how the whole thing even started with Ned.
the ending of this show is like watching someone pick the worst possible options when playing a telltale game.
This is the best analogy I’ve ever heard for this dumpster fire of a season lmao
Dany was shown as being fully evil in the Telltale Game of the show, so it's pretty legitimate.
Perfect description.
Bran will remember that
yes wow!
i think one of the bigest insults to female characters in the series was the treatment of brienne who after being teased by men all her life builds a bromantic relationship with jamie only to have him give her pity sex then abandon her in the same night.
To think some people spun that as "But she strong don't need no man!" Context, folks.
Damn. That's like blatantly demeaning now that I think about it😂
I loved their relationship in the book. That's why I never got into the show.
and her then being distraught when he leaves? She should have been like 'you off, one hand? I assumed you were up from all the clanking. Not the only deadweight on you, if you get my drift. Off back to your sister? You are a total fuck up and you know perfectly well I could hunt you down like a dog, if I wanted, but like, I've got some tax forms to do and also Podrick's starting a podcast. See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya!'
He didn't leave her the same night. They spend many nights together. But yeah, I agree... Jaime and Brienne were so good in ep 2, and then they ruined Jaime.
THIS MAN REALLY SAID "There is something kinda chilling about her reaction to Varys dying" AS IF DANY WASN'T A 14 YEAR OLD CHILD BRIDE SOLD FOR AN ARMY OF DOTHRAKIS FOR THE CHANCE OF GETTING THE THRONE AGAIN. WHO HE CONSTANTLY MISTREATED. IT REALLY MAKES YOU THINK.
I remember in one scene, where Viserys literally said that he’d let thousands of Dothraki rape Dany if it meant he was gonna be king-yeah, I’d probably be watching gleefully when he gets his golden “crown”.
Honestly shocked she didn’t pour the kettle herself
Varys also tried to have her killed, multiple times
She isn't 14 in the show. We're talking about the show here, not the books.
@@HOTD108_o? doesn't make what he said about dany's reaction any less dumb lol.
Bran : I'm the three eyed raven
Everyone in contention for the throne : I'm losing to a bird !
@Acetylsalicilique i believe I love you
Magnificent reference
You are my favorite person
Love the reference 😂😂
Well, technically birds are dinosaurs.
“...When she reveals that she’s actually SUPER HITLER - the Hitler that flies!!!!!”
Yes. This.
That made me laugh so much.
I almost starting cry laughing, it was so good
Dude! Spoilers!!
Best line in the video
D&D - time to end this shixshow. We going to Disney World!
"you have to love something a lot to be this disappointed" basically the perfect quote to sum up this whole depressing mess
Yes
Don't particularly care for the show stopped watching when they skipped lady stoneheart, would be really disappointed if Martin never finished the story
1:08:24 "BEST SEASON EVER" :P lol
It's a quote I've used in reference to other media. Because it's true
Yes, how chilling it was when Daenerys watched on as her own brother died right in front of her. The same brother who had psychically/ sexually abused and traumatized her for years. The same brother who should have protected her but instead sold her to a barbarian war-lord famous for raping and pillaging- in exchange for a small army. So what that he’d just held a sword to her stomach and threatened to carve her unborn child out of it because the man he sold her to hadn’t paid for her in full yet! The real monster here is HER because she didn’t cry! How did we miss the signs?!
I mean, that wasn't one of the signs IMO. The real signs were all those times she said she wanted to burn everyone who stood in her way and her advisors were like hey, maybe fire should be at least solution number 2, ya know?
@@BabaCorva yeah but as Lindsay stated in the Dany section, that was only against her enemies and people of equal military might as well as when reason demanded it so.
Daenerys wasn’t always compassionate but she still made rational decisions, negative or positive, and her ruthlessness extended to her enemies and only her enemies, never innocent people.
And that ruthlessness is something that many other characters also dish out to their enemies. You can’t have this medieval war time code that all other characters live by and then in the last three episodes have everyone all of sudden get concerned with the cost of war.
@@BabaCorvawho were these innocent people who just wanted to stand in her way?
Miri max duur? Who killed her husband and child? Problematic decision for Dany but not anymore so then Jon killing Oli.
Doreah and Xaro? Betrayed her and killed her friend.
Kraznys and the masters? LITERAL slaver master who have done unthinkable things to babies and innocent people.
163 great masters? LITERAL slave masters who crucified CHILDREN.
The khals? Who would have done worse to her if she hadnt protected herself. Also are rapists and kill each other all the time.
More slavers? Who wouldnt live in a slave free world
Lannister soldiers? Because this is war and soldiers die everywhere. How many men has Jon, tyrion, jamie killed in war?
The Tarlys? The ones who betrayed Olenna tyrell who they were sworn too, which resulted in her death. Not much different from Jon beheading Janos slynt for not listening to his commands, even after he’s changed his mind. She gave them a choice.
And then the bells happened… where she killed thousands of innocent women and chidlren.
So which one of those was the signs? Was it the slavers, rapists or soldiers who chose to die after betraying the woman they were sworn too?
.@@dylansmithers3224
Yes. Found it so damn laughable how the showrunners tried to frame this particular moment as foreshadowing in their commentary. By that logic Sansa, Arya and Tyrion were also foreshadowed to be mad. Tyrion kills his own abusive father without regret, Sansa feeds her husband and tormentor to dogs (also sheds no tears when her crazy aunt is killed infront of her), Arya avenges the death of her mother and brother by carving people into pies and having their father eat them. All of that is fine and justified BUT when Dany appears emotionless when her abusive shithead of a brother gets himself killed, now "watch out, this girl might be mad". Bruh! If you try to force your foreshadowing into previous scenes, then pick better ones and stop holding Dany up to some weird standard you don't hold others for.
They are even more blatant about that later when they be like "oh Dany is turning eeeevil cuz she executed enemies who refused her offer of surrender... even though she's basically doing standard practises for this universe, even though other 'heroic' characters have done similar or worse but they are cool and righteous". Ugh! Like, I never was against the Mad Queen plot and was in fact anticipating it long before S8. My beef is not with Dany turning mad but the WAY they did it. Just so frustratingly bad that it actually made me feel sorry for Dany (and Emilia). All the unfair treatment and rushed/forced character progression when, in capable hands, we could have had such a juicy story instead.
"But your grace, what about the Geneva convention" make me crack up waaaaay more than it should've
Well on the plus side, the number of people insisting that I had to watch GoT has dropped from everyone to nobody.
You can always watch breaking bad :D
the song of fire and ice books are pretty good too
Same.
Agreed don't watch, read the books.
Joey Shears when GRRM finishes them I’ll read them.
@@JasperJanssen fair enough. Enjoy.
*insert comment about how Lindsay put more work into this video than D&D did into season 8*
I'd rather you did, since you brought it up, if you don't mind
More work put in to this video than the last 3 (and a half if you consider the sand snakes from S5) seasons combined.
Lindsay put more work into this video than D&D did into season 8
@@sanguinesr0se that'll do
HUGO AWARD COMETH
The fact that we never see Theon find out that Ramsay was killed sums up the way D&D felt about character development.
Or Yara even cared that Theon is dead, you know, a guy she left to die who later saved her life.
@@nont18411 In fairness to Yara she engaged in a special mission at risk to herself to try to save Theon but by that point Ramsay had messed with his head too much.
@@pplr1 Ramsay was shirtless while Yara’s troops were fully armed but somehow they’re scared of him because he had some rabid dogs. That’s why this scene never happened in the books because it didn’t make sense.
@@nont18411 Correct. Perhaps it should be taken as another sign of how willing D and D were to break from the books.
“She kinda forgot” is the most pathetic excuse for a plot hole i have ever heard
Actually is the one it is truth, cause when a character forgett something big like that, it only mens that the writer forgett it XD
Minlow Yeah. That character whose actions are completely dependent on my whims acted in a way that defied logic, but coincidentally adhered to the way I intended the narrative to go.
Totally natural. Totally in character.
He meant "I kinda forgot" but since that sounds bad so he went with "She kinda forgot" which I think is actually worse than if he was honest about it.
@@d3nza482Well I know I've said it in a broader sense, but it was justo a joke. Of course character can forgett things and it do not mean a plot hole, not always at least.
Exactly
I love the descriptor "Her intelligence is just writer clairvoyance", because I see it so often, where a person isn't smart because of their own deductive abilities or perceptions, but because they just say a bunch of things that wind up being right. Because writers can't write characters smarter than they are
This! Exactly. The degree to which D&D genuinely did not understand the world, characters or message of the very work they'd been adapting for over a decade is still somehow stunning to me. A decade! And they just...didn't understand any of it. It's baffling.
This was the major problem with Sherlock and Dr Who under Moffat too. The first rule of writing is show, don't tell, but instead we're just told constantly about how smart and great sherlock/the doctor are, with them saving the day, but never actually showing how they really did that or showing logical reasoning for answers they come up with, they'll just literally walk into a room and go "ok I've solved it". And the Doctor would have all these scenes with aliens afraid of his reputation and he'll make some dark speech and end with "because I, am, the DOCTOR!!!" or whatever and then the day is saved
If you haven't already go watch hbomberguy's video about Sherlock. It's long but it's amazing, if you love Lindsay's videos you'll love his ones (he's even in this video, he does the voice overs for the" 2 seasons earlier" bits). If you are a writer or creator it's a fantastic video to learn about some pitfalls all writers make (even apparently huge ones like Moffat), and it's just great to watch anyway even if you're not a writer.
Ah screw it ill just go find the link for you:
ruclips.net/video/LkoGBOs5ecM/видео.html
That's why I fucking hate the BBC's Sherlock
Unpopular opinion: this is also why I don't like good will hunting. Will just "knows" everything and has read every book there ever was, but you never see him showing instead of telling his intelligence. Also the rest of the plot I found quite melodramatic.
@@CanelaAguila I've always thought this about Good Will Hunting, yesss!
I especially like what you said about Sansa and how women empowerment is always women being devoid of emotions. I've always hated that trope.
Pan Mantequilla It’s that and usually knocking other characters (usually men) down. Sansa, for example, only seems to outplay Tyrion because he’s taken an abrupt turn into dimwitsville, not because she’s been paying close attention to him and his mannerisms and figured out how to properly manipulate him, something that takes *time.* She simply outwitted him because he’s suddenly a moron.
Speaking frankly, if you’re a woman and you’re being told that the only reason you can do something as well as your male counterpart is because he’s suddenly become blisteringly incompetent? You should be feeling insulted.
When you build a character up by knocking another down, you rob people’s investment in both characters; they resent the former for “cheating,” and they lament the latter over their unfair treatment.
When Sansa called herself a "stewwwwpid little girl", we were apparently supposed to be agreeing with her all along because that was D&D's cue to make her over into their soulless cookie-cutter ~badass~
This idea of women's empowerment via the loss of their humanity is actually sexist both ways. In a story like this, it's supposed to mean something when women can match or even surpass men in the things they're supposed to excel at. But by stripping the female characters of their kindness and compassion and essentially turning them into soulless killing machines, it has this underlying message that strong male characters are defined by their ruthlessness and lack of compassion, instead of, you know, their honor or ability to put the needs of others in front of their own. Things that Jon Snow had, which the showrunners also ignored because they were inconvenient to the plot.
@@ManiaMac1613 Yup. Jon and Sansa both had compassion but D&D "kinda forgot" compassion was a good quality and made Sansa an emotionless jerk.
As cheesy as "power of love/family/friendship" is, it really is quite powerful
First she came for the slavers, murderers and rapists...
so yeah, it was pretty unexpected that she suddenly decided to kill innocent people.
D n' D, you understand that's not what the poem is about right?
"First they came for the Nazis, and I didn't speak up because _fair enough_ "
@@s.g.7572I just want to add that the german original goes something like "When the Nazis came for" which makes this extra funny
I'm so mad about the final episode's casual misuse of "liberation theology" goddammmmmiiitttt
I cannot upvote this comment enough.
I'm so mad at how fans only saw the bad writing after four years and didn't suss it from day one.
Best Lucifer by the way well done
Did you voice the Monty python peasant dub at the end? I thought that voice was familiar xD
@@dreamer5483 hee hee hee, yes I did!
I just heard the peasant dub at the end and asked myself the same question. And i was absolutely certain that it was you at the Anna Karenina line. You loveable devil.
I hate how people actually like Sansa's new "badass" persona... Sansa is supposed to be strong, not because of what she went through, but in spite of it. This narrative that kindness and compassion are weak is so tired... I would love to see a more reserved, cunning but still compassionate and kind Queen Sansa - like her father. That's who she deserves to be.
Writers seem to love the idea that a woman cannot be simultaneously vulnerable and strong at the same time. It’s an obnoxious and overused trope and they should learn to write female characters who can be caring and loving towards others while also being powerful. Traditional femininity shouldn’t be painted as a weakness.
I mean, this should've been Dany, wavering at one point then returning to compassion with the sparing of Kings Landing. Sansa can become the Littlefinger of the new age.
Book Sansa's journey is not the one we got on the show.
She does not get tormented by Ramsey after Littlefinger encouraged the marriage between the two without realizing what a sadistic nut Ramsey was.
Combine this with Sansa's somewhat trust in Baelish only to realize that he betrayed her family, in the worst way, as well gave us the Sansa we got in the end.
She constantly trusted people and was burned continuously.
Dany said it best when she told Jon that Sansa was not the same, especially after what "they have done to her".
Even Sophie admitted that Sansa trusted no man until she reunited with Jon had this was before the Baelish revelation.
She was almost there in season six, and the events in season seven sealed the deal.
Anyone who believes that this amount of nonstop pain and betrayal doesn't manifest itself in some way shape or form, negatively, is deluding themselves.
Fighting "toxic masculinity" is basically making female characters with those exact same toxic traits that they hated in the guys.
Kinda, "why should guys have all the fun of pillaging and murdering".
It also is so vehemently against what they did with Dany at the end (and how we were all apparently supposed to agree and be like "YEAH! OFF WITH HER HEAD!" makes negative sense.
It would be one thing if they were making some larger gender commentary or something, but they're not.....if they were (lol HIGHLY doubt) then they did a shit job of showing it.
“We need to wrap this shit up” perfectly sums up season 8
Emily Brown "AND LETS NOT EVEN TRY EITHER" like shit they can't even pronounce Missandae right...how much money did they make to literally write like a page of words for season 8...ugh
Hahahaha yeah its sad really
喜欢是喜欢，但是总感觉哪里有点不对劲
D&D lost interest in the show and wanted to get it over with so they can move onto the Star Wars series.
@@Ishkur23 and the one thing to keep in mind before judging them too harshly on that, IMO, is that they technically didnt sign up for "writing" plot in the first place. they were hired to adapt the story of the books for a TV series at a time where everyone involved - including them, the author, the execs.. everyone - believed that the book series would be finished before the show came to its conclusion. which you have to admit they did a pretty good job at while it lasted.
only several seasons in did everyone realize that that would not be the case and they would be running out of the original material to adapt and they would have to actually write the story going forward. now i dont know why they didnt just bring additional writers on board at that point, if that was their own choice or maybe GRRM had issues with that idea, i have no idea what was in the fine print of everyones contracts in terms of that. but they didnt, and it showed. there was an immediate drop-off in the quality of the writing after they reached the ending of the books.
i know people really wanted to believe that there would be an awesome conclusion to this, but the writing was quite literally on the wall if you payed any attention during seasons 5-7, which is why the eventual outcome shouldnt have been all that surprising.
Imagine someone assassinated the president, and now you're watching the trial live. They're asked how they plead, and they just say "Danny Devito should be president" and everyone listens???
Edit: On further thinking, Danny Devito actually makes sense. Imagine they say that yodelling kid from a few years ago should be president instead, that's the level of half remembered obscurity we're talking about here. No non-Starks at that meeting should give a single shit about Bran
I'd listen to him too, the world would be a better place if he was president.
i mean i would
He is like, the best candidate for presidency.
We're all admitting it wouldn't be the worst system. Comparatively.
Thank you so much for this. I had a good laugh🤣🤣🤣
"But your grace what about the Geneva Convention"
I wheezed
"Who has a better story than Bran the Broken".... who was missing for all of season 5 because he had no story 🤦♀️
@Sky Dome What book? Bran has no story in book 4, but it's because book 4 and 5 are the same boo cut in half, half of the characters are in book 4, the rest in book 5 ^^
@Sky Dome understandable. he was definitely joking, but it means he understands what was working and what wasn't. which now seems like a fucking miracle in light of the adaptation.
Mr Martin was referring to early Jon-chapter in the first book. He forgot to write Bran in the scene when there was a feast for the king in the Winterfell.
Literally anyone. Tyrion's bright idea of copying the HRE system of governance brought forth the hundred years war, bloodiest conflict until ww1.
Edax that would have been the greatest thing ever.
"Look how mad Danaerys is! She's tired... and she has no makeup. Truly a red flag. Better kill her now!"
Put her down like Old Yeller.
Hahahha. Yes that's pretty much what they did.
Agreed... Oh no Cersei decapitated my handmaiden... I have no one to braid my hair now... Obviously this has driven me over the edge...
Oh Hey! Wait a minute!
Now my character has motivation to burn a whole city.🙈
She has bags under her eyes… 🚩🚩🚩🚩
@@kellywolstenholme8134 She must be on her peeeeeeeeeeeeeriod
Tyrion in the books: "I will choke the life out of Cersei with my own hands and drown Westeros in blood and fire"
Tyrion in the show: "She is just a girl and she's scared"
Also Tyrion in the show: I don’t want to hurt our family I never did!
Also also Tyrion in the show: (literally shoots his father with a crossbow on the toilet)
They made Tyrion a saint when he's supposed to be a sinner, the devil on Dany's shoulder.
The sheer amount of chances cersei got in the final hour of the show is the most frustrating things about it ; other than daenerys’ (literal and figurative) character assassination
@@jaysax7381 Seriously, Cersei kinda overstayed her welcome. There's a reason it's joked so much that Lena Headey got paid lots of money to sit around and drink wine for the final two seasons.
I felt genuinely horrible for the actors, such a good arc for them to play for about 5.5 years a slight decline and then off a cliff into the abyss of stupidity.
The trainwreck they made of Daeny in the show has actually made me more sympathetic to her then I am in the books ironically enough. I may not be a big Daeny fan but I'm just not in for that character assassination fronting as a finale episode.
@@AmurTiger Same, I always expected her to turn into an antagonist in the end, but not like this! I'd rather expected it to happen through the competetion with Aegon, who suddenly appears with a supposedly better claim and isn't an incompetent lunatic like Cersei, Quaithe manipulating her through dreams and prophecies making her paranoid and her accidentally burning King's Landing while invading because of the wildfire stashes hidden in King's Landing. But no, we have to turn her into Hitler.
You ever saw the interview Varys' actor did regarding the character's end? Dude was devastated.
@@lulumatthewiosi179 Yup, accidentally turning into a villain in the eyes of the very people she wanted to save... that would be a cruel fate, and definitely maddening.
Could you imagine? They gave a decade of their life to this thing... what the producers did was incredibly disrespectful.
The most accurate description of season 8 is the actor who plays Varys putting away the script whilst reading it and looking incredibly disappointed.
I can definitely imagine that
@@fernando-sl7qm You don't have to! There's video of it
@@MatthewGerrish link?
@@TechnoMinarchist watch?v=VH8w8SitIRI
i love that clip
This show went from a massive global phenomenon that was everywhere to just COMPLETELY disappearing from media and pop culture in general outside of mocking it. That’s both sad and amazing.
Yeah even Lost fared better in comparison
If D&D were trying to leave their legacy with a scorched earth, they succeeded.
" Dany kinda forgot " will be all that is remembered.
it's sad because assuming Martin eventually does finish the books, I feel like the stink of the show ending will still overshadow the 30 some years people will have waited for his conclusion
@@Ryan-pg7hi honestly I've lost all hope he'll ever finish them, and the fact that the show ending was such a disaster probably doesn't inspire him either. I honestly feel sorry for the guy, I'd hate to be in his position despite all the fame and money and fans. Imagine waking up every morning knowing the world expects you to finish something you maybe don't even want to finish anymore.
It kinda fucks me up that the show runners seem to believe that it's unacceptable to react negatively to trauma. There are multiple points where they express this, but that they explicitly said "dany was okay with her abuser dying, and that's bad!" Is eugh.
It's called character and virtue? If you are waiting to kill your "abuser" you aren't a good person you are just powerless
That being said revenge is a worthy goal but it's not the most noble or virtuous, to not seek revenge is more moral and to truly forgive is the most noble thing there is
Dany was justified in what she did in the world of GOT but in our world and society she killed her brother
@@PodreyJenkin138 I mean technically she didn’t kill Viserys, Drogo did, but for the sake of the argument let’s say that she did. Dany put up with her brothers abuse her entire life but never planned any retribution against him, even when she had the power to do so.
It wasn’t until Viserys threatened to murder her unborn child that harm came upon him and at that point it’s not even revenge but self defense as well as protecting an unborn baby from a psycho.
Even in our world and society, I know that many people would see Dany killing Viserys as justifiable and I know that because it has already happened numerous times with abuse victims getting acquitted in court after killing their abuser in verified self defense.
Now if we were talking about what Sansa did to Ramsay then your argument would hold water but in this instance it doesn’t.
@@PodreyJenkin138 yes, our world. What a civilized one it is. You can look up cases of trafficking victims getting sentenced to life in prison for killing their rapists in self defense. (EDIT: I just read Dylan's comment above, and there is clearly no uniform outcome to these cases- but I feel the mere existence of verdicts punishing the victim supports my point)
'You aren't a good person you're just powerless' I agree- being a victim of abuse doesn't make you a good person, it makes you a victim of abuse, something no one deserves to be. And wanting an abuser to stop using their power to hurt people, which, as many of them demonstrate, is something they won't do, then why is it so awful to want them dead? Not just to save yourself but others from them too? Don't the powerless deserve to have power, the power to help and save themselves and others and fight their oppressors?
But no, we in our enlightened world place more blame and stigma and judgement on people who even just cut abusers out of their lives and try and expose them than the abusers themselves- a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of which see a day in court, much less jail. The statistics, or lack thereof, are harrowing. I have asked the numerous trauma therapists I've been to, some of whom have represented victims in court, about that, and got the confirmation that very few are reported, and few of that few taken to court, and fewer still convicted.
Forgiveness does not stop a rapist. A lack of resistance and consequences just teaches abusers they can do what they want and they'll be enabled, because their victims and everyone around them is so obsessed with being 'better' than them, as if not being abusers and rapists doesn't already make them better. As if revenge is more morally corrupting than taking no action against someone you know is harming others.
"What unites people?.... stories." They were right, we are united in our hatred of what they did to Game of Thrones.
As said in the Cats video, people like surrounding trash fires, metaphorical or literal.
So what he told us was true...from a certain point of view.
I wanted to thumbs up this but it has now 666 upvotes and that is the perfect amount of validation
Hear! Hear!
Excellent
Not even an hour long length will stop me from rewatching this video multiple times in a row
I'm on my second helping already
@@buttonsnrubbish... how?
Same! Until I know it word for word
@@lookihaveausernametoo4231 Patreon supporters get to watch it early :)
@@buttonsnrubbish ahhh that makes sense, didn't know that.
"Somehow at the end she was just a girl"
Imagine this guy directing Breaking Bad.
"Somehow, at the end,. White was just a boy...."
Sub Roy Before s8 aired Weiss actually said they were hoping for a Breaking Bad discussion with the finale. "Is it an A ending or an A+ ending???"
Hell, about White that would make at least a tiiiiiiiny bit of sense. Imagine it being said about TODD. You know, that poor boy, just seen his beloved uncle murdered in front of him, and then strangled, oh you can't help but feel a little sorry for him... (actually no, Todd was a piece of shit and deserved to die, just like Cersei did).
But I thought White was a color? **Is bricked**
@@Adorni You mean, bricked inside Red Keep while Old Yeller is burninating outside?
@@subroy7123 That would be correct yes. And without even a sibling whose character was murdered for me to have my dead-end of a storyline with D:
Game of Thrones isn’t going to be remembered for its bad ending. It’s worse than that. It’s going to be forgotten because of its bad ending.
..Yeah
that's what hurts the most.
The actors, writers THAT AREN'T D&D, and costume and set designers, the brilliant composer, the conlang teacher and everyone else had years, almost a decade of their time and effort SQUANDERED by two little pricks convinced they knew best
@@OfficialROZWBRAZEL I'm entirely convinced that even in the early seasons the whole team got sore backs from carrying the show while D&D were getting drunk and horny leering at the actresses that play sex workers.
I can't think of another piece of media in my lifetime that has gone from so culturally dominant to so completely irrelevant so fast, or maybe even at all.
@@GaryDunion Lost comes to mind.
"Because to D&D, female empowerment is shedding your humanity until you are a stone cold badass"
**standing ovation** A little louder for those crap writers in the back! I'm sick of the so-called strong female stereotype. Female characters deserve much better.
Could not agree more. Far too often we see an attempt at representing/appeasing women, only to be left with half baked, over the top and - more often than not - cringy stereotypes.
Pay attention to how these people describe their characters, there's a reason 'strong, independent woman' is a meme at this point, more often than not when they describe their female characters this way it's a warning sign that they plan to write the most boring overused type of character in the modern era.
Why don't they describe their female characters as nurturing, wise, cunning, intelligent, foolish, lustful, envious, patient, driven or any number of other descriptors. The answer is that if they are any of these things in the film/tv series/game being made it's a fortunate accident, the writers were too busy trying to make an empty shell that simply succeeds at every task with a quip or two at most until the plot demands that they fail in a way that never forces them to grow into something resembling an actual character.
I was about to ask "so what does a strong woman look like?" but I guess if we de-sex it, we can simply ask what a strong *person* looks like, so we neither fall to toxic masculinity tropes or female stereotypes e.g. The Mother/The Bitch etc
Speaking of actual D&D, my long term campaign had my friend Julia’s character, Savvy, end up with the empowering story of getting the Book of Exalted Deeds (an artifact of extreme power that you lose attunement to if you don’t strive to do good, and perform at least one charitable act a day), save the world and get married to her girlfriend. Which I feel is a much nicer story.
Hayao Miyazaki is still the best female characters writer.
Ah, so the REAL reason they waited an extra year before releasing season 8 is because they were hoping we'd forget about each characters backstory.
Correction: they were hoping we would *kinda forget.
@@mattgilbert7347 ah yes, let's blame someone completely unrelated because i cant live without thinking that bad writing cant exist without completely unrelated political subtext.
Its like a worse version of the people that acussed the last jedi of being left leaning and feminist.
Great plan. My stepdad and I watched the whole series(his second time and my first) in that time.
It took them 7 months to build the King's Landing set... it was the shock and spectacle that took so long.
The writing couldn't have taken more than an afternoon!
So we'd *_"kinda forgot"_* their back stories 😉
What really ticks me off about the whole ‘maybe the best ruler is the one who doesn’t want to rule’ thing is that the first king of the show was Robert. He hated ruling and he got the crown into incredible debt
Yes but placing someone that wants to rule is dangerous just as much or even worse, since these people will sit their to enrich themselves for most part. You have to understand that in real life psychopaths are those that search for powerfull positions for example: being a leader of a country. That are the kind of people that really want to lead and not because they want to do good, but just because they want power. They to control others.
Dany didn't seem that kind of person, but saying that someone need to want to rule to be a good ruler isnt true at all either in real life. You really should chose between the people and see which person has a real purpose, to make things better for THE PEOPLE and not to enrich himself or stand their for other rich people as in America happens a lot too.
@@-_YouMayFind_- The amount someone wants to rule is usually completely unrelated to their actual job performance.
He did want to be king though. No one forced him into the role, nor could anyone have forced such a headstrong man into it. He just didn't want to bother with much of the day-to-day administration of the kingdom once he took the throne.
@@-_YouMayFind_- Psychopaths search for powerful positions, yes, but that does not mean everyone that seeks power is a psychopath.
@@ColdSleep He didn’t want to be king, though. What he wanted was to have Lyanna Stark, and later on to get revenge on the Targaryens for ‘killing’ her. Becoming king was a side effect of that whole thing.
i'm so friggin mad they brought up the "whenever a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin" thing regarding Daenerys, when it's already made clear thematically in the first book that "the bad coin" was her brother, Viserys. She is FINE, goddamit.
But, alas, I forgot, themes are only for 8th graders, so it's clearly too advanced for DnD to get that.
Not to mention so many Targaryens weren't actually "mad". Like five were, max.
@@made-line7627 This.
@@made-line7627The whole "Targaryen madness" thing was Robertine propaganda which the maesters helped perpetuate because they were scared and resentful of the Targaryens
@@boozecruiser Most likely!
It’s pretty much guaranteed that Dany is going to burn Kings Landing in the books. Maybe when fighting against Aegon rather than Cersei.
It is a little sad when writers think the only way female characters can rise the the "badassery" standards of men, particularly men of action, is by turning them into stone-cold, hardened killers with little compassion. Men of action are allowed to be romantic, compassionate, sarcastic, witty, kind, and generous, but women of action must be tough, stony, brooding, and calculating. Why can't women of action also be romantic, sarcastic, witty compassionate, etc etc? Feminine and strong are not antonyms, they can coexist in the same body.
This is why I loved mid-series Sansa. It ALWAYS angered me that Arya was seen as the badass and Sansa was always regarded as the whiny wanna-be princess (yes, she was annoying in S1 but Arya was naïve in S1 and no one seemed to be bothered by that).
Cuz these dudes were in charge of a show that went on for 10 years and had almost 0 women directors and 0 non-white directors and then ended with dark-skinned foreigners terrorizing the poor white folk like human orcs
Uh, Brienne? Badass, noble,kind and honorable? Maybe Caitlyn? A strong, staunch mother who was entirely devoted to her family, kindly, feminine and compassionate? What about Asha? Taken in by a different culture, whom mothered, protected and looked after Bram and Rickon ; who was very kind, compassionate Or how about the literal most badass sarcastic,witty and devoted fuckin woman in the whole damn show, Olenna Tyrelle?
The women of game of thrones were far FAR more exceptional than the men of the show, showing usually a broader range of emotions, motives, a plethora of personalities that wasn't 'brooding war hero' or 'intellectual but athletically compromised' .
idk if we watched the same show, but it's a very bad argument. Yeah GOT Season 8 was a shitshow, but there was some amazing women in the cast. Not ever woman has to be some pillar of nobility, but to imply all women in GOT were heartlesss monsters is grossly wrong.
@@blacksesamecandies And they needed all those characters, too. Should have had Brienne die of Syphilis, after what they did to her season 8 arc. Lady Stoneheart wasn't added in.
Sansa in the books is all those things--my absolute favorite character. Such strength within herself.
“Those dragons have the fortitude of hummingbirds” is so perfect
"Jon reacts to this news like he's been served jury duty" is probably my favorite line ever
When they made Sansa say that terrible line about being a little bird all her life if not for all the rapes, I wanted the Hound to say, “what are you now?” And then show Sansa experiencing daily PTSD symptoms and grieving the gentle, hopeful person that she once was.
That's asking too much from hacks like Benioff and Weiss.
@@jbvader721ikr 💯
Oof, that would have been so amazing to watch. Can you imagine what Sophie Turner could have done with a script like that? Damn
It's such a bad line too because she was already so smart and so good at manipulating Joffrey. She was never going to be just some meek little bird. She only pretended to be so that she could survive.
If she'd stayed married to Tyrion they likely would have become the power couple of the realm once she came into adulthood.
She survived everything because she was a strong person with a strong will, who always took care of herself, and looked out for others.
She risked herself to save the drunk knight, warned Margery about Joffrey's cruelty, lead the noble women in prayers when Cersei failed them.
Ramsey snuffed that kindness out, and I hate to see that treated as a good thing. Her becoming like him is 100% a tragedy.
Because she's admitting that without those experiences she'd continue to let those she doesn't know, in. Outsiders caused her family the most grief and even after being traumatized and abused Sansa was still sweet, but, it was Robb and Cat's deaths that broke her. She started to lose her faith. Will she gain it back? Maybe. Only time would tell.
Like....what did Sansa's trust earn her? Absorb what she went through and it's clear that she's meeting the world on it's terms, not hers. She adapted.
And why is everyone only focused on Ramsey? She's including them all; Joffrey, Cersei, Littlefinger, Ramsey, Lysa, etc. Ramsay wasn't the only cruel person she encountered. And take the sexual assault out of the equation....is she wrong?
So glad Lindsay addressed the total lack of consequences for Cersei's destruction of the Sept. I remember watching that happen and thinking "holy s***, what a ballsy, desperate move. I can't wait to see what the fallout will be!" And then... nothing. Absolutely nothing. In retrospect, I realize this was where the show finally lost me. I didn't even bother with S8, and based on the backlash, I made the right decision.
Same for me, the fact that Cersei was so clearly a tyrant and yet faces no consequences for being so is where my last hope of a decent ending died. Same for the loss of the food baggage train. Without consequences actions have no meaning and without meaningful actions there is no story.
I've only ever watched the first two episodes of GOT, and this video has even gotten me pissed and disappointed. My deepest sympathies for the fans of the show. Y'all deserved better.
Go watch seasons 1-5, they're mostly great. Season 6 is allright. Then just stop.
She destroyed the sept and the third (?) most wealthy family and all the local nobles. That is a very baller move that wouldn't even give room for anyone to contemplate any sort of rebellion. Also, I think there was a quick line about seizing the wealth of those nobles and giving it out.
I didn’t watch it either, started the first ep of S8 but as soon as they all met and Bran was like “We don’t have time for this we need to discuss this NOW” I could already tell how terribly rushed this was going to be.
"...it ended with a dragon burning the symbolism."
Your eloquence never fails to impress, Lindsay.
Torus2112
It was actually Dany's ghost (living a second life in Drogon) completing her mission to (break the wheel) destroy the iron throne. At least that's my head canon.
@Alan Pennie
Ah yes, the "unknowingly a warg all along", the staple of GoT fanfic.
@David Hytha
Yes I heard that too. I'm just rewriting the episode in my mind to stop myself from bashing my head against a wall.
@David Hytha
Thanks.
Dany's "They don't get to choose": Used as a sign that she's a mad tyrant or something...
Everyone in the council: *laughs at the idea of letting others choose*. But they're supposedly gonna be great for the realm.
John, earlier "they don't get to chose"
Also, Daenerys “I’ve Been All For the People for 7 Seasons” Targaryen suddenly changes opinions?
Precisely...
Dany's statement was regarding every person in the entire world. Every ruler from every culture and on every continent. Their views on right and wrong, their opinions on various matters, their very existence doesn't matter. Only she matters. Therefore, she would rule them all. Because.. well, she's already gone this far, why not world domination through genocide?
The council was made up of lords and ladies of Westeros, who would decide what is best FOR Westeros.. and for themselves but you know..
Simply put: A mentally unstable girl with a full-grown dragon who just burns whoever she wants deciding everything sure seems worse than a council of self-serving nobles electing someone who should decide everything.
Aspiring Marauder it's because they've got cocks, duh. Sansa and Arya have honorary cocks. Also known as emotionlessness.
What really gets me is the self congratulatory circle jerk the writers had about “good stories” having the power to bring people together, coupled with their absolute lack of skill and apparent disregard for their craft (themes are for book reports), etc. These guys rode on GRRM’s writing and inflated their egos so much, they genuinely thought they were top tier writers. I need, NEED them to know how much they sucked. The fact that the seasons they wrote are synonymous with bad writing and directing is the legacy they deserve. Jeez.
they also trash canned a lot of plot points and book characters and dropped most of the magic from the series
Personally if they wanted to move on to Star Wars, they should have just handed the role of show runners to someone else…maybe even make up with GRR Martin and have him involved again. But that would take humility and respect for the cast, crew, and their craft.
At this point it's abundantly clear what happened:
GRRM heard their answer to R+L=J and thought they understood the story on an emotional level
Whereas D&D thought they were just the cleverest boys for figuring it out
“First she came for the slavers and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a slaver...” 🤣🤣🤣🤣
This video perfectly sums up why the last season and the finale were so disastrous!
I mean, that part of the speech is fine. The slave masters she crucified were NOT the slave masters that crucified the slaves. There were only a few men ruling the city making that decision.
The problem is that this awful brutality of hers was only demonstrated once, seasons ago. It is totally believable that since then, she has grown less brutal, through learning from her advisors. She seems to have gotten better, then there is an awkward mid-air stare where she changes her mind.
KaosOrder oh I totally agree! I just got a good chuckle from her using the quote because it points out just how ridiculous Dani’s rampage was in the last episode.
@@KaosOrder 1) They were all slave owners, though.
2) A good portion of them she crucified were indeed part of that decision
There's no justification for using that speech in that context, in any way.
@@KaosOrder "zey were just following ze orders"
To be fair, Game of Thrones is absolutely a story about how power corrupts: a cautionary tale of how power corrupted show runners.
I don't know, don't you think it is about how power reveals? It revealed D&D to be hack frauds.
Tony Stark
Yeah, it just revealed the truth. They can't be trusted with anything anymore. Plus, David Benioff helped write the screenplay for X-Men Origins: Wolverine.
Haha genius response
Nah, DxD got absolute power running the show, it absolutely revealed them to be terrible at running shows.
this.
"But Your Grace, what about the Geneva Convention?" was basically the entire plot of seasons 7 and 8
Yeah, suddenly a character from basically 14th century developed a 21st century concept of morality!!
@@yogaz3691 It's Tyron - he was ahead of his time :D
it is basically the whole show.
@@yogaz3691 not really she was always more a modern girl
Drogon at Nuremburg: "I was only following ze orders"
“The best ruler is someone who doesn’t want to rule”
Ah yes, the most successful king in French history, Louis XVI. Nothing bad ever happened because of him.
not to mention in this ASOIAF universe Aegon the second (in HOTD) doesnt wanted to rule either he was crowned by his mother and grandfather he never ever wanted the throne but still he was a terrible king
@@tariizm1500 Or Robert.
@@judeconnor-macintyre9874it’s funny because I have seen people argue that Robert was a good king because the realm was fairly prosperous and stable under him. But like… most of the stuff that happens in ASOIAF is either A) a direct consequence of a decision he made (like sending an assassin after Dany when he heard about her marriage) or B) an unintended side effect of his incompetence (like all the shenanigans the Lannisters get up to under his nose or how Little Finger gets the crown completely indebted because Robert doesn’t care about finances). The only reason why his reign was stable is because it was the calm before the storm. Then he died right before the shit could hit the fan and somehow none of it is his fault anymore. Good king my ass. 😤
@@Misa.misatoRobert was a bad king. Jon Arryn carried him.
@@Misa.misatowe as readers and those who were close to the throne knew that he was a bad king but for smallfolk he was probably the best one (some even think that Aerys would be better than the ones they have after Robbert). So yeah, I can definitely see why this argument is made
Petition to nominate this video for an Emmy in place of the actual GOT episode
JellyLovesFaith I’d sign.
This, please. I really don't know what to think, if they actually win.
Heureka85 I could see them winning. This video is spot on [amazing] in noting that the Bran speech about the power of ‘stories’ is pretty much D&D sucking themselves off and begging fellow writers to ‘celebrate’ writing by giving them an award. In fact *that may be the single most clever thing* they’ve ever written in that regard. Self serving self service. 😂
Yes!!!!
*Tips Fedora*
The final message the show leaves you with is that the most important thing in the world is genetics.
The Starks were our undisputed noble heroes despite of their actions, the Lannister were all traitors who were only loyal to their own family and the Targaryen have either good genes or crazy genes, and Daenerys was just unlucky and got the crazy gene.
Truly a message that would transcend history....
So...Was Lamarc right?
(SUPER FLYING HITLER!)
Only Targaryen who had good genes was Jon, and that was probably more to do with the Stark side of the family and even more so with his upbringing within the family, so really all Targaryens are crazy...
There are no words to describe how angry that message makes me.
Maybe the Targaryens have Huntington's or something.
And the only system viable is Big brother (Bran) is watching you !
Your point on Dany is so accurate. Her actions only make sense in the context of Faegon, the “Mummer’s dragon” being beloved by the people when they *should* love her
*Stands on balcony, smugly staring off into the distance whilst sipping wine and collecting a $1,000,000 check*
@simonmana I don't think that was meant to be disparaging. No-one nails staring off into the distance while smugly sipping wine quite like Lena Heady.
Also, pretty much any other intense emotion, concealed underneath a slightly fragile, trembling forced stoic facade, paired with some nice wine and staring.
Now I want to see a compilation of those moments...
Every womans dream
@simonmana Lindsey's channel has been a massive audition for being Cersei in the remake of this show.
I wanna see outtakes where they try to get the wine off her.
$2,000,000 check actually. Emila, Kit, Nikolaj, Peter and Lena all revamped their contracts to get a higher pay.
Lena literally had the best job ever! I'd LOVE to get a fat check for just smugly staring out of a window, while drinking wine.
"But your grace what about the Geneva Conventions" Best line of the video.
That's good, but I vote, "She reveals she's actually super Hitler; the Hitler that fliiiies!"
@@asphaltpilgrim You're not wrong XD
I
Hard agree. Made me laugh my ass off. ^^
You are the reason I hate Starbucks.
"We can't trust Daenerys because the people flip a coin when a Targaryen was born. We can trust Jon Snow, Aegon Targaryen, because he's a Targaryen, but the rightful ruler, he's also a man, which so were the previous Targaryen tyrants, and he doesn't want to rule so therefore he's more suited to ruling... just like Robert Baratheon." Truly this is the worst logic on the series. Varys' entire character motivation for half the series is undone because convenience demands it.
Didn't Robert Baratheon nearly bankrupt the Kingdom becomes he kept spending on lavish parties?
@@shadowmaydawn yes
@@shadowmaydawn To be fair to King Bobby B, a lot of the debt was Littlefinger's fault.
@@Lord_Of_Night Only in the show. For what it's worth, in the books it's mentioned that Littlefinger was actually a brilliant master of coin, and was pretty much the only reason the realm hadn't collapsed under Robert's own lack of financial acumen.
@@ColArana Even in the show it's only Littlefingers fault in the sense that he was good at finding lenders, he didn't as far as we know encourage Robert's reckless spending in any way.
All your complaints about Sansa's path of empowerment by losing all pathos also apply to Bran. Bran as a person basically died when he became the raven-god thing and now he's basically just the same body possessed by that alternate being who has no personality whatsoever. Guess which two characters get crowns by the end of the series too lol?
Also, why didn't Verys just poison her Starbucks if Daenerys wasn't eating her meals?
31:37
Grey Worm: "You do not get to speak"
Tyrion: *dominates the rest of the entire scene with a long speech that changes the world government*
Speech speech no jutso attacks again
Also Grey Worm: "Let's all go to the Isle of Naath... where we'll die of butterfly poison"
@@KingBobXVI
Pity Bran is so eeeevil or he might have had a word.
And Grey worm whose only remaining motivations were Danny and bloody vengance. So he kept the guy who brutally betrayed and murdered Danny alive and invited a bunch of nobles he didn't care about to discuss his punishment.
@@bificommander7472 he should of killed him on the spot
That “Have you considered the best ruler might be someone who doesn’t want to rule?” should have been followed by a Bobby B montage.
IT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD I WANT TO HURL MY POLITICAL SCIENCE DEGREE ON THE SHOWRUNNER'S HEAD I MEAN FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!!!
Sorry about that, I just particularly hate that one bit of disaster in the mountain worth of final season's disasters. What a moronic conclusion to end at.
The "lords of the realm choose the new king" could've been followed by a Bobby B montage too, since there was still a selection process behind him becoming the face of the rebellion. Or even a war of 5 kings montage! Nobody thought Robb, or Renly, or *snerk* Balon had a birthright claim to the throne!
merlinthetuna well actually they did, they are cousins to the Targaryens which is why Stannis believed he deserved it more than Renly, because his claim was better.
@Friday We Are Awesome Dumbledore I think.
"she's sUPER HITLER - HITLER THAT FLIIIIIIIES!"
my poor lungs
If you really pay attention, you can hear the dragons making Stuka-like noises.
We should have known!
Favourite lines from Lindsay:
8:45 “Yeah, nothing. Nothing happened… the countryside was not burninated”
12:15 “Nnnope! And Guess who gets the worst subplot of all time: You do, you do!”
19:25 “Based on *what*, those dragons have the fortitude of hummingbirds”
50:33 “When she reveals that she’s actually super hitler, the hitler that fliiiiiiiieees’”
54:27 “but your grace what about the geneva conventions”
@@leirarekceb3043
"And I donnwonnahear any of that "he's in denial" crap, this... this is the ending, we don't have time for that."
"Because battles are easy now. Because. We need. To wrap. This shit. Up!"
Or as TV Tropes calls him, Stupid Jetpack Hitler
The whole ‘well look at how cold Daenerys was when her brother was killed’ thing is a particular spit in the face when you consider Stannis Baratheon’s arc. A man who literally had his daughter burned alive so that he could have a shot at power. Even he wasn’t framed as being insane in the way she was.
THANK YOU. Also, Daenerys' brother was all rapey and incesty, so why *would* she care?
TenEnvelopes yeah, I never understood why she was supposed to be upset that her abuser was killed. And let’s also not forget that Stannis had his brother Renly killed.
TenEnvelopes Yeah. And above all that, her brother was just an absolute FUCKHEAD.
It’s not even just the sexual abuse, but because he sought to control her, because he didn’t respect her, and because he didn’t account for how capable she was.
Hell, compare him to DROGO. Drogo was a more than a little sexually aggressive to Danny too, but he was actually receptive to change, and eventually grew to respect and care for her. Her brother had no such intention.
@Frank Castle What are you talking about Stannis's ending was great. His last words were perfectly in character as was his mistakes. From beginning to end he was a emotionally-cold, rule-fixated, religiously-deluded leader.
And despite all the abuse Viserys puts her through, she STILL names one of her dragons -her children- after him
My favourite hot takes are the ones we get served stone cold, months after the fact
100% of the time, they're the most well-considered
Yeah, it's not very often that Lindsay agrees with the rest of the internet, but when she does, it's because the last season of the psychological realism behind dragon bloodlines WAS dumb as shit.
"She's just a girl and she's scared." WHAT THE HELL!?!?!?!?! That is a completely insane view of Cersei like I can see why everything went terrible if thats how they are thinking.
That was some sexist bulldoodoo. "And Jaime's there to comfort her." The fook? He's dying just as much as she is. They're both adults. Not like Cercei's ever been delicate, or like she's never been about to die before. She thought she was gonna die when Stannis was attacking King's Landing, and her response then was to apathetically drink a bunch of wine and have poison ready so she wouldn't be taken alive. She was never irrationally asking for the impossible just because she was scared and didn't want to die. She was bitter and cynical and didn't even bother to hope very much that it wouldn't come to that. Honestly. "Just a scared girl." Cersei fooking Lannister.
A silly, misguided attempt at pathos by idiot writers.
Hell! I'm not sure if she's ever been scared or even been just a girl!!!
"I'm just a girl"
- Cersei Stefani
@@gregbors8364 "Cause I ain't no Hollaback Girl."
-Also Cercei Stefani.
Jesus Christ. Like, I can see what they were going for there. That even one of the most terrifying villains in all fiction, at the end of the day, is scared to die. Death is the great equalizer and all that. But it's so...Poorly handled.
Remember when we were all in our homes for 14 months during a global pandemic and not a single person rewatched a show that but two years prior had pop culture in a chokehold?
Too busy rewatching twilight 😂
hey thats not true! i rewatched the first two seasons lol
D&D's thesis seems to be: "abolishing slavery leads to fascism".
What a thesis to pitch in 2019...
"Sure, slavery was bad, but you know what the real evil of the Civil War was? The eeeevil federal government trying to impose its will on the states!"
@@ricstubbs6802 Holy shit that's actually it, isn't it? I wonder if D&D are libertarians?
@@ricstubbs6802 don't try to project American history on a TV show, game of thrones is an global phenomenon and the us wasn't the only place that had slavery. Many places, still have slavery unfortunately
But the showrunners are from the U.S.
Nobody:
Me: watching GoT hot takes by Lindsey for the 5th time during quarantine to commemorate a time when season 8 was the worst thing in my life
Same here Vishakha. Same here
damn, same
empty bottles of corona in the back. She's just that great at foreshadowing.
Same! I watch these once a week just because it encapsulates so much of my disappointment that it feels like slipping on a blanket during a snowstorm
i never got into got, but spending time on the internet for the past 10 years i ran into GoT stuff all over the place. my dashboard used to be filled Got memes, gifs, headcanons, people discussing the plot and characters, ship wars, meta texts about the show, fanart, fanfic, cosplay, like it was unavoidable running into the fandom. kinda like how star wars, hp, lotr, and star trek always have had that presence. even when there were no stuff coming out people still talk about them and have fan theories and dreams.
but after the got finale the show's fandom just collectively disappeared. like it had been wiped off the map. i'm re-watching these videos to just see what made all these fans just collectively disappear, like how badly do you fuck it up that got is now just a blip on the cultural landscape of the internet
"Really makes you think. We live in a society."
LMAO, love you Lindsay
BOTTOM TEXT
Despacito play Country Roada
PHONES live in a society!
What if emancipation but too much?
@@MoonShadowWolfe Yeah, made me think of Contrapoints beauty video, too.
The way GoT portrayed Daenerys as some kind of monster in Season 8 even before The Bells from other character dialogues was disgusting. I refuse to accept and believe she would burn down an entire city and thousands of innocents when time and time again she has stated she would not do that.
The whole burning of King's Landing and the Hitler-esque speech was not in her character at all. It was a total character assassination. I refuse to believe it was foreshadowed or that it was always going to happen.
I hope this doesn't happen in the books also.
The books present a better argument for it to happen in that FAegon may get into a war with her and that turns people against her. But not only is the speech and city burning character assassination but what may happen in the books is that a battle sets off the wildfire and that wrecks the city-not wanting to. That was actually the earlier plan for season 8 but I guess the moronic writers later realized that Jon may not agree to an assassination over something Dany never wanted to have happen in the first place thus changes were made.
@@pplr1 There’s also Tyrion’s dark nihilistic mindset and how he could potentially advise Daenerys in the books. I mean I do think the show cut a few of the dark moments Daenerys moments (ie the wine sellers daughter’s) but the main problem in my opinion is that d&d failed to realise that while Daenerys definitely has a violent side in the books they didn’t make sure that the people that are most likely going to be her advisers in Winds and Dream are also dark individuals who are going to push her further towards using violence. Having Dany get more violent just because doesn’t work. You need all the pieces for it to fully click
@@williamnissen5083 I agree with you on Tyrion and how he would push her along a darker and more violent path. And having GoT Dany go more violent "just because" it an apt way of describing it. That said, it could be that even book Daenerys is will end up doing something redemptive and thus isn't as bad as they tried to make season 8 Dany. Now we may never get the next couple of books but there are options for book Daenerys both good and bad.
@@pplr1 yeah. Tyrion will definitely be apart of it though there are other people trying to get into her inner circle that will probably do the same. The tattered prince for Example. I think Dany will give him pentos after she learns Illyrio has been supporting Faegon/Young grift over her and realises that he never expected her to survive with the Dothraki
@@williamnissen5083 Thanks fro bringing out that point. There are a number of characters and subplots missing from the books that-if applied to characters that did appear in GoT, even if briefly, really can change both how other characters would treat them but also how viewers may see them.
If power corrupted Danaerys then why did she lock up her dragons, her ultimate source of power but also creatures she loves, to protect innocents?
@@dominicbounds8768 😭😭😭
@@dominicbounds8768 they were busy trying to document full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 SHITS...oh wait...writing epic shit. There it is.
Because the show’s writing was *checks notes*… bad
I think because she wanted to be this perfect ruler, never needing to make a moral sacrifice, always righteous and never bloodied.
It makes perfect sense for such a naive perception of what a ruler is to devolve into tyranny when her perfect picture got burned to ashes.
She did not do it to protect the innocent, she did it to protect her innocence.
She did not protected her people, her “Children”, she protected her “Mother” persona.
@@artvrrvtra5235 um… no?
About the ending … I decided to take the anime route. GoT was cancelled on season 4 and if you want to know the ending go read the manga!
Yes!!
We'll first have to see how the manga turns out...
@@YassoKuhl But we know that is going to be better than the show
Mr Bee The last book came out in 2011
That reminds me of Fruits Basket. The anime is awesome. However the one problem is an unsatisfying ending. I watched that first. Then I read the whole completed manga. It is freaking amazing. The story is fully complete there. :D
"Super-Hitler, the Hitler that fliiiiiies" is a great line.
My favorite too
if you did not spoil me
I choked on my drink when I first heard it.
We already have a super Hitler: Mecha-Hitler
Huh weird this line predicted the ending of attack on titan
"Everywhere she goes, bad people die, and that's arbitrarily a bad thing now in this dark fantasy series."
Lindsay's descent into insanity in this series of GOT videos has better set up and payoff than Dragon Lady had in the actual show
her lindsanity?
Dany is a psycho. She burned father and son alive in season 7 😳
Father and son who betrayed their allies and murdered endless tyrells. Randall was guilty of treason and murder and she STILL gave him the option to bend the knee. WAY too lenient
@@MattAlbie Option? "Bend the knee or I will burn you alive" is not an option. "Give me your money or I will kill you" is not a choice. I think you're intelligent enough to realize that.
I would have enjoyed if a dragon burned her funions in the end tho. Its the true source of her power and the dragon in all its wisdom understands it as a metaphor
"She's just a girl and she's scared" may be one of the more unironic misogynistic things I've heard lately.
Imagine Marvel saying "in the end, Thanos was just a boy."
but let's face it, everything is misogynist, right?
@@opsimathics No. You should care about contexts.
@Booper Dooper A black man and a cartoonishly racist white southerner. That's the only situation I can think of.
"at the end, Hitler was just a painter"
what angers me the most about jaime’s ending on a personal level is how you see this dude struggling with and because of a toxic and abusive relationship for the longest time, then he finally gets to get away from it, heal and live a little but NOO he goes back to his abuser and they die in each other’s arms, so cute
like, what kind of message does that serve??
it could have been an interesting portrayal of someone who succumbs to an addictive and toxic relationship but the execution was all wrong. he didn’t necessarily have to be a redemption story.
@@gee2541 i completely agree, but if that was the case then they would’ve needed to criticise it a bit. here it’s portrayed as beautiful and romantic, not ‘wrong’ like it would’ve been if they wanted to make a point about succumbing to an abusive relationship like you said
@@marsimus13 oh yeah I agree with you. the idea and potential was there but like everything else in season 8, the portrayal and the writing made it feel unearned and rushed.
tbh i feel like they were both toxic for each other, i wouldn't describe cersei as his "abuser". i think it's more accurate to say she was tyrion's abuser. but yes, him getting away from her was the best thing for him.
The writers just got hung up on the idea of them dieing together after having previously been born together. Probably thought it was poetic. But it doesn't work because the relationship was garbage. And they torpedoed his whole character arc to get there. Even Lena Headley had objections too it but they "convinced her" to go with it.
I’ve always hated the double standards they apply to dany. they try to convince the audience that dany’s actions in essos were wildly tyrannical and we didn’t realize. “everywhere she goes evil men die and we cheer her for it”… never understood this line. like yes, she did kill evil men. why is that suddenly such an issue?? they’re making it sound like dany simply BELIEVED the people she has executed were evil, as if she was mistaken. her whole arc for multiple seasons was bringing an end to slavery. i really don’t get how they’re trying to spin that as tyrannical. she executed slaveholders who crucified children. that does not foreshadow the burning of kings landing one bit. she has shown time and time again that she truly, genuinely cares for the common people. for that reason, her sudden turn to “madness” was completely out of character and is blatant character assassination. dany really deserved better
Just the fact that Dany executing people is "bad" and "evil" when every single Stark has executed someone, sometimes innocent people, yet they're still as moral and righteous is telling of how stupid the writers are.
"Jon executing a child? Fuck that kid, he deserved it! Ned executing a teenager for desertion? Maybe if you hadn't run from the cops-- I mean, Night's Watch, you wouldn't have gotten killed. Arya wiping out an entire bloodline, leaving countless widows and orphans to fend for themselves while a war is going on just as winter is coming? YAAASS! SLAY, KWEEN!! Dany executing her father's bannermen for fighting against her and the treason man who already tried to have her assassinated before? EVIL! MADNESS! SHE'S WORSE THAN HITLER!!"
@@SilburificI finished the show like a week ago and when i tell you i was SCREAMING what you and the op wrote lol. It was the hypocrisy for me 🤢
Comparing GOT to Dark Phoenix is such an accurate and brutal take down
"You've grown too powerful and independent of me woman, now I have to kill you, look what you made me do." Yeah totally justify a man killing his lover even though it defies both their characters.
And they did it twice! Because obviously they didn't understand the first time!
When did that happen? Time stamp?
The Greendalewitch I’m pretty sure the part they’re talking about starts around 56:30.
Both involve terrible writing, an overeliance on visual effects and the same overated actress
If...if Dany got triggered by the Red Keep...why didn’t she fly her dragon...to the Red Keep....and set it on fire?
My thoughts exactly!
Because D&D are very clever and need a bad excuse to make you think "oh noooo, I didn't realize I was supporting female hitler! My expectations were subverted by these amazing writers"
in the minds of d&d (not mine) it's because she doesn't have love in Westeros so she must have fear. Again, their opinion, not mine.
@@giuliaraggio That pissed me off so much
I'm pretty sure the city that got sacked by Tywin Lannister, brutalised by the psycho incest bastard Lannister and then had their church (likely the only source of alms, health care and comfort for the smallfolk) exploded by said psycho's psycho mother would be happy to have the Targaryen's back if only to save them from the Lannisters.
They even seem to set it up with that whole civilians as meat shield thing which is just ultimately ignored. I don't think people were traveling to the city from the countryside like is implied in the video, rather inside the walls of the Red Keep from the city proper. Since the writers, I guess, wanted Dany to kill a bunch of innocents, she could've just nuked the keep with the thousands of civilians inside. That would've at least made some kind of sense.
The "look what you made me do" analysis gave me chills.
Honestly it reminded me of Taylor Swift and her 'Look What You Made Me Do' shenanigans.
Same, and then I felt dumb for not seeing it coming
It made me realize that Tyrion had to convince Jon to kill her because she always kills evil men-like Tyrion who doesn’t care about slavery and who most definitely will kill innocent women when they are a threat to him.
I feel like Catherine in "The Great" is the anti-Sansa, or more specifically what Sansa should have been. All of the cunning, the cleverness, the way everyone underestimates her because of her beauty, even her initial romantic naivete prior to marrying a childish cruel ruler. The difference, however, is that she always retains her gentleness and compassion, rather than have the writers carve it out of her in the name of faux feminism. She shows that femininity is not the opposite of power and cunning, nor is it antithetical to being a strong woman. The reason she's so much stronger and more competent than Peter is because of her empathy, which helps fuel her intelligence.
Watch "The Great". It's, well, great.
I feel this way about Starlight in The Boys, too. When I started that show I was so prepared for a "naive character gets crushed by the cruel world around her" arc, but they've consistently written her as a kind and just person, and it's honestly a breath of fresh air.
I know it was mentioned, but let's take some time to remember that we started the show with "A King Who Doesn't Want To Be King" and he did a shit job of it. He drinks, screws around, mistreats his political-marriage wife, ignores the ruling of his country, plunges it into debt, and neglects to raise his children. We established in Season 1 that it wouldn't work! How would people like Varys and Tyrion (who spent the last decade watching Robert utterly fail at ruling) think it was a good idea to repeat that?
Not to mention that another reluctantly powerful character is Ned, who messes things up as badly as his friend Robert, albeit in a very different way. The first book/season really hammers down the point that reluctant doesn't necessarily mean competent.
@@kajamiletic3223 tbf I think Ned would have been a perfectly fine Hand if the lannisters weren't conniving bastards. I think there's a line in the first book/season - maybe with Jaime? where someone says to Ned 'you could have been King', with the implication that the realms would have been much better off than with Robert
See, this is where actually allowing Jon to have some freaking point of view in the matter would have come in real handy! Because I think in the case of Jon, Varys happened to be right, but it's because Jon's reasons for not wanting it were presumably toootally different from Robert's.
Knowing everything we know of Jon from the previous 7 seasons when he actually, you know, got to BE a character with opinions and a point of view, it's quite obvious that he never would have been the type to take the throne just out of obligation and then be too lazy or ambivalent to actually do his best at ruling well. No, I have to imagine that his not wanting that responsibility is basically an extension of what he expressed to Sansa after their reunion in season 6: he's someone who's been continuously GIVEN positions of power he hadn't been intending or wanting, and his experience with that is that it's mostly a whole lot of fighting and feeling responsible for the security of the whole realm, and having to do things it pained him to do out of duty.
So if anything, Jon didn't want it because he WOULD take the responsibility incredibly seriously (he is the most like Ned, after all), and it would always be a huge weight on him that would make him miserable. That is an entirely different form of "not wanting it" than Robert, who just kind of got bored with the whole thing and didn't want to have to deal with the ins and outs of ruling. So yes, given Jon's nature, he WOULD have been a great King in my book, and yes, part of that is because he wouldn't have been doing it out of any amount of power hunger but out of responsibility.
But of course, none of that was ever delved into in season 8 because they suddenly decided, apparently, that Jon was just some mindless pushover who didn't have actual emotions and points of view of his own to express until the last episode >__< (Ugh, I'm so bitter about how dirty they did him.)
Robert would have done all those things regardless. He was highly dysfunctional and self destructive when faced with the tedium of day to day life, despite the battlefield heroics that won him the throne. That may not be the best example.
John would have been much better overall, but that compulsion to act honorably would have served him poorly in the world of politics, as it did with Ned.
@@Aldowyn Yep, and also, I feel like King and Hand as roles kind of lend themselves to different strengths. Ned was seemingly a really good *leader* (which is Jon's strength as well), and that's one of the most important aspects of a good King/ruler. But the Hand role is an advisory, more behind-the-scenes one that lends itself to someone who's got the political savvy more than the natural leadership ability. Not that Ned wasn't a good Hand in a lot of ways, but he was just too naive in that environment, which isn't the right fit for the one who's supposed to be keeping the eye out.
A lot of people seem to argue that Jon would have been too naive to be King, but the difference is that he already HAD plenty of people really good at the political game in his court who would gladly advise him. Tyrion and Varys (if they went back to their prime), Sansa, even Davos... he would not have been all alone in it like Ned was! And he'd be in the position where his natural leadership and ability to gain peoples' trust and loyalty would be most properly utilized. So nah, Jon would have been a great King in my book. He just genuinely didn't want the weight of that responsibility, and I can't fault that at all.
It seems oddly ironic that a show that killed off so many characters killed itself off at the end.
Shadushio bet that subverted your expectations lol
I know nobody likes 'that guy', but I'm gonna be 'that guy'.
You should say "It seems oddly *appropriate*..."
This is not an example of irony but aptness.
its called "mass homicide then panicked suicide"
Really makes you think
@@phucanhell I was just trying to figure that out.
D&D totally missed the point of Arya’s character arc in the books. Arya giving up her entire identity and losing any sense of who she even is as a person in order to become a badass assassin is actually cool and awesome and it has no negative side effects. I hate how the show cut out a lot of the moments of Arya showing kindness to random people and the psychological trauma she goes through during her faceless man training and instead goes all in on the badass murdering aspect. Arya’s arc in the books is a deconstruction of the typical fantasy revenge story and shows how self destructive allowing revenge to consume you actually is. The moment when Arya says “a girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell and I’m going home” is supposed to be her deciding that her family is more important to her than her quest for revenge. In the show when Arya gets back to Westeros she is just a snarky murder machine who is still obsessed with revenge. She didn’t actually go through any progression as a person beyond learning how to kill better and that’s why her character just falls flat for me. D&D abandoned any sort of nuanced character progression and instead just made Arya a badass killer who does epic murders to get people watching the show in bars to cheer.
Her revenge quest also never costs her anything. Like if they knew they were gonna set up the Hound convincing her to abandon her list to preserve her humanity, they should've foreshadowed it by having her pursuit of revenge end up hurting her somehow later on. Like maybe she missed the Long Night battle to kill Cersei and someone she cares about dies and doesn't get Cersei.
@@jessArcade The problem is, the Hound convinces her WAYYYY TOOOO LATE.
Several people on her list we have never heard from them again, and its either that Arya killed them off screen (lazy) or they kinda forgot about them (LAZY).
And basically she had only a person left on the list (save from the Hound who she liked now) and destroyed a house of dozens of members if not hundreds! (Walder Frey is known for his magic rod after all)
Exactly this, but with Bran also.
Like, they kept all of the weird, sinister implications of the Three Eyed Raven, and then just ignored them. It was supposed to be a deconstruction of the fantasy trope of cool magic mentor and instead highlight how power and a preset destiny being thrust upon a child is a very dangerous and unpleasant thing, but nope, Bran is just a cool psychic tree guy now (that doesn't ever do anything)! Yeah, sure, it kind of seemed like the Three Eyed Raven was trying to steal his body and take over Westeros and maaaybeee that's what happened here and Westeros might be under the rule of an eldritch, omniscient being, but like... let's ignore that! He's a cool tree-person now who can rule the kingdom!
it comes down to D&D not understanding what "subversion of expectations" in regards to GOT actually means. They put in all these twists and character progressions that made no sense, but then dropped all of the ACTUAL subversion of classic fantasy tropes.
I would add that Arya is I think 12 in the books? Maybe younger? Her being a super cool bad ass assassin isn't framed as a good thing. She doesn't kill that much in the books. Arya's arc in the books is definitely preoccupied with death and trauma and revenge, but it's never framed as though she's being empowered. In fact, it shows the opposite: she's being isolated. And this is even more interesting because it implies that Martin doesn't see the ability to kill here as empowering, or else, if he does, that ability isn't necessarily a good sort of empowerment. Arya is just lonely and sad and bitter. Dareon, that singer dude she kills? Did he deserve to die? Should she have been the one to kill him? She's not "good" in the books. She's lost.
That’s probably cause there’s no Lady Stoneheart in the show, in the books she’s basically leading a campaign with the brotherhood without banners to get revenge against Lord Frey
39:48 I was SCREAMING at my screen when i saw them semi redeeming Cersei with motherhood (super cliché for women) while turning Daenerys into an irredeemable psychopath like wth!!!
37:27 I never realized how bad these two lines were:
Tyrion is talking about saving the innocents of King's Landing....despite the fact that he gave a big speech about how much he hated them
Jaime claims he never cared about them....despite the fact that he gave a big speech about how much he cared about them
*It makes no goddamn sense*
Beware, sir: there are people who will insist time and again that Tyrion's courtroom speech was just "big talk," just a sign of him being a little angry, and that he would never actually do anything really drastic.
Apparently, murdering his own father in cold blood - while the old man was unarmed and taking a shit - just slipped right by these people.
@@dominicbounds8768 Oh yeah. I miss selfish Tyrion. He only fought because he was forced to and it was either die or live to scheme another day. And that court speech was supposed to be genuine disgust, Tyrion feeling vindicated in his feelings of hate for the city because look how they treat the Dwarf who saved their hides. Regardless of his motives, he saved the city, only to immediately be reminded why it didn't deserve to be saved.
I think those are in character. Tyrion actually cares about people but he learned to put on a hardened idgaf exterior to deal with how badly he was treated.
Jamie is a selfish asshole who aspired to the superficial aspects of knighthood and honor. He's going to make big speeches because that's what he thinks honorable glorious heroes do, but when the rubber hits the road, he doesn't give a shit.
As for Tyrion killing his father, idgaf, it gave rise to the best line of the books which I remember well over a decade later: "And Tywin Lannister did not in the end shit gold." Also, Tywin has spent his whole life treating Tyrion like shit culminating in threatening to sentence him to death. Tyrion had spent his whole life trying to be loved by his father and finally realized his father was not worthy of his efforts. I mean, Tywin did force Tyrion to watch as Tywin had his men gang rape the woman he loved to humiliate him. That alone was justification-enough for Tyrion to kill his father.
Neither does the rest of season 8.
@@dominicbounds8768 While I agree with your premise, I will never agree that Tyrion murdering Tywin, one of the most evil people in the entire ASoIaF world, is evidence of moral decline. Murdering Shae on the other hand...
0:00 Intro (Robert Caro)
2:02 Everyone Is An Idiot
4:35 Sansa Is A Hot Mess
11:34 Bronn Is Still Here For Some Goddamn Reason
14:01 Varys
20:27 Jon Snow
26:39 Tyrion: Moron
33:12 Jaime
38:35 Cersei
46:10 Daenerys
1:04:30 Epilogue: stories, endings and legacy
1:06:31 Coda (a positive note)
+
1:09:43 The post-credits gag ;)
@@SamElKhouly "if you can't devote an entire hour and ten minutes out of your busy lives to watch a youtube video about a tv show then you're a piece of shit"
Are you trying to say “sweeties”?
GOT was like a guy performing a magic trick by jumping off the tallest building in the world. As he got up there we were in awe that someone would do this, then he reached the top and we were in awe of their bravery. Then he jumped and we were in awe at the prospect of them dying or living. Then kept falling and we were in awe of the rush of the whole thing. Then kept falling and we were in awe of impossibility of this working. Then he hit the pavement and died.
Best analogy I've seen so far.
And then we checked the body to find out it was a dummy all along.
Aim for the bushes
Wonderfully put
@@themaskedmysadaean8885 "He actually forgot it was the tallest building in the world"
Almost every time directors feel the need to explain character choices AFTER the show/movie has already come out, they usually spew BS because they realise their "stroke of genius" is actually either a huge plothole or massive contrivances.