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Interesting you removed the MMR crossover kit. I'm going to install one on my 2000 F-250 5.4 Liter 2 Valve engine. I carry a 4000 pound truck camper and supplies much of the year and if it gives me better cooling, I'll be happy. I will use barbed fittings because the water passages are larger and should flow more. I'll cap the second fitting on the right head and install a Tee fitting center between the two with an upsized outlet that will be heater hose size. I can Tee into the coolant line from the front crossover tube going into the heater core, where both the front and rear crossover hoses will be drawn through the heater core, always getting some cooling, then through the valley tube and into the back of the water pump for recirculation. Of course doing this will divide the flow of coolant between the front and rear so I may have to be mindful of the reading on the temperature sensor because of less flow and the wind from the fan is substantial at the front of the engine so it could have some cooling effect on temperature readings. I don't think it will be significant enough to worry about. Another option is to install a second heater core or radiator and separate the lines. OK, That's my input, thanks for the video. You are right, it's hard to find reliable information about this rear of head setup. Take care.
Another great tech tip video! Thanks for putting these out on RUclips for all of us to see and learn. I'll also be doing the same modification to my GT350 so good to see what it will look like doing it and GREAT tip on the freezing of the pieces to get them to shrink a bit to aid in their installation!
Thanks for making a video on this. You gotta wonder why Ford never decided to start putting these on their engines. They have to know there's a cooling problem in the back of the engine. They could easily remedy this by either partnering with a company like MMR to add this to the assembly process of the engines.
What about the ground wire on drivers side? That plug blocks the bolt hole so ground can no longer be attached. Not a huge deal, but there are no other threaded holes in the vicinity unless you put it on cam sensor bolt, which isn't ideal
It might not hurt to invest ina killer chiller. No idea if even make a system for the Gt350 because it’s usually seen on supercharged street cars but I’d imagine in this application that it would do dividends for you during track duty. Of course.. you’d need Air conditioning too
I plan to. Since I'm removing the engine again (yay!), I plan to add some sensors to gather some more data. I'll test them the same day at the same track and log the data to see. At this point I need to find out based on principle since MMR won't tell you
Just don't ever plan on taking the CTS out ever again when the engine is in the car, lol, right? I have a NA Coyote right now but I plan on running a decent amount of boost to it next year so I plan on doing this mod this winter. I'd also really be interested if this does anything. I have notice that my CTS (rear passenger head) reads about 20 degrees hotter then my aftermarket temperature sensor tapped into the radiator hose fitting (the one on top of the engine that looks like a thermostat housing) but I'm not sure if there is an actual tempaure difference or if it's just the different way the two sensors read as one is "wet" and the other is "dry".
I wouldn't be surprised at the difference. Cylinder #8 runs quite a bit hotter than the rest and given that's where the sensor is, I can see it running hotter than the water. Is your aftermarket temp sensor before/after the radiator? If after, it's "cooled" and that would also contribute.
@@honeybadgershenanigans Before the radiator, right on the top of the engine where the hot coolant exits the block. It's a race car and i like redundancy on critical sensors.
you'd think ford would've fixed the coolant issues with these motors by now. i know this is critical for the 4v 4.6's to prevent #8 from getting hot all on its own. I see a coolant sensor on #4, is that right?
i dont see how this will somehow induce more even coolant distribution since youre just creating a deadhead at the crossover, the coolant flow is going in opposing directions through that bridge netting 0 flow. Whats the main issue with the rear cylinders/head overheating? is it just straight up coolant flows from front to back? heat saturation by the time the coolant gets to the back of the engine? If thats the case then you'd either have to split flow to where its entering the block at equal intervals, or induce some sort of restriction at the front so that its not saturated before it gets to the rear of the block.
The early generations lacked a cooling passage between the back two cylinders causing #8 to get extremely hot and detonate before other cylinders with Fords factory fueling map. A lot of aftermarket tuners were able to “tune” around this by adding extra fuel to that cyl. Coyote isn’t the only engine to use this crossover type hose and this doesn’t hurt especially for as cheap as it is. Little peace of mind.
What did you do about the crank position sensor being obstructed? I was able to turn the sensor, plug it in, rotated back and then tightened on the bolt. Curious to see what you did
Is there an update to this video yet after 7months? Was looking into this mod,and figured if I have to remove the motor for the best access I might as well get everything all at once so I dont to pull it again for other mods.
Not yet. I put the car into hibernation when COVID hit and it overheated (needed a mental break). Engine has been at the builder's since September getting refreshed. We'll see that happens this year.
Hey man, I'm considering boosting my stock gen1 GT350 (2016 model), and considering upgrading rods, pistons and headbolts (I've already upgraded OPG and sprocket and crank bolt) Do you think I'm heading the right direction? if my block and heads are in good condition? additionally i'll be upgrading the fuel system to a return style to make sure i'm safe at all times. Appreciate your input
sorry that I missed this! If boosting and not consistently sitting at high rpm, rods, headbolts, and OPG/CS are probably all you really need. The stock pistons are good and aftermarket pistons can lead to ring issues. Rods are definitely the weak point when pushing boost. If you'll be sitting at higher RPM, you'll definitely want to look into some head upgrades for better valve springs, Ti retainers, etc.
Curious if you consider running the new GT500 head gaskets? They have an open spot in the coolant jackets around 4 and 8 where its normally blocked off on gen 1/2 stuff.
I’m wondering, could you have just bought an aluminator 5.2 for the same money you spent on your voodoo? And you could have sold the voodoo. I’m thinking of going that route when I get a GT350r. Thoughts?
That would be an absolute waste of money. The Aluminator 5.2 and the 5.2 Voodoo are extremely similar and are basically the same engine. There are minor differences, the major differences are the cobra intake and the cross plane crankshaft. For the price which is ~$21,000 it doesn't make sense because you would end up doing the same modifications. You also have to modify the engine bay a little like removing the strut brace for fitment. You can turn the Voodoo into an Aluminator for way less. The only thing you need to do is change out the crankshaft.
Not to mention you still don’t have a properly blue printed engine. The Aluminator are good engines when you don’t really ring the crap out of them for hours and hours. If you do, it’s better to get something more meticulously built with some lighter/higher end components.
Both the FP350S and Mustang GT4 cars run an Aluminator I believe. Also Aluminators are hand built using very high spec internals. Have you seen the build video from American muscle magazine? The cross plane won’t shake itself to death. I do agree rebuilding a voodoo will be cheaper especially if you can pull the engine at home like you did. But the Voodoo issues concern me. Those problems with the voodoo are all addressed by the Aluminator ie oil pump, ring sizing, cylinder bank oil transfer during high Gs and head to block tolerances. I also agree the cobra jet intake is ugly and big. Just put a Voodoo intake and throttle body and be happy with 530HP. BTW, I track at cresson and Eagles canyon. I flip from a Cayman GT4 to C7 Z06. But I’m getting ready to replace one with a ZL1 1LE or GT350. Driven ZLE on track and it’s quick and stable.
The fp350s actually uses a CPC variation of the voodoo. Same engine with some valve train upgrades (springs and retainers) and the CPC crank. The GT4 uses a special roush Yates motor that has some secret and is fully blueprinted. The FP350S, Aluminator 5.2 XS and GT350 engines are all hand built, but they’re not fully blueprinted. They’re very good, but not as well assembled as the fully blueprinted motors from roush or a properly rebuilt voodoo from someone like MPR Racing. ZLE are very quick and a great platform, just quite boring to drive IMHO. Bit too clinical for my tastes. The voodoo motor (or a coyote for that matter) has more character and it’s a big part of the experience, IMHO.
Yeah I know that about the GT4. Obviously fully race spec engine. But it’s limited to 450HP per class rules. Reliability sauce! I think the key is CPC. Aluminators are hand built at Ford performance engine shop where the Ford GT and Cobra Jet drag engines are made. Not all bent on Aluminator but it is closer to a blueprinted engine than a Voodoo. As far as ZLEs are concerned. I lean towards cars that on track are on rails. I had a MX5 track car years ago and it was all analog and busy. Yeah that high revving engine is fun I’m sure. The Porsche GT3 in manual is like that. Very visceral feeling to drive on track. So is a C6 corvette.
@@honeybadgershenanigans Thank you, Kevin. I apologize for being a bit off topic with respect to the topic of the video. I was in a scramble. Great info as always 👍
I only ran the car a for a couple sessions while these were in before I blew a coolant line - during the engine refresh I removed them. So I don't have any data of them. I've seen a few racers try and use them with no measurable difference. They ended up pulling them too. YMMV
I removed it after 1 event when I saw others in the community having suspect issues. It's anecdotal evidence, but given that I haven't had issues on #8, I didn't want to chance it.
Saw others have issues in the road course community. Nothing directly, but suspect stuff - like no changes between a race engine refresh except the coolant crossover and the engine needing to be rebuilt 12 hours sooner with cylinder 8 being the issues. Ford doesn’t do this on any of the race cars. And given that none of the vendors can provide any real data on its effectiveness, I decided to remove it.
Interesting you removed the MMR crossover kit. I'm going to install one on my 2000 F-250 5.4 Liter 2 Valve engine. I carry a 4000 pound truck camper and supplies much of the year and if it gives me better cooling, I'll be happy. I will use barbed fittings because the water passages are larger and should flow more. I'll cap the second fitting on the right head and install a Tee fitting center between the two with an upsized outlet that will be heater hose size. I can Tee into the coolant line from the front crossover tube going into the heater core, where both the front and rear crossover hoses will be drawn through the heater core, always getting some cooling, then through the valley tube and into the back of the water pump for recirculation. Of course doing this will divide the flow of coolant between the front and rear so I may have to be mindful of the reading on the temperature sensor because of less flow and the wind from the fan is substantial at the front of the engine so it could have some cooling effect on temperature readings. I don't think it will be significant enough to worry about. Another option is to install a second heater core or radiator and separate the lines.
OK, That's my input, thanks for the video. You are right, it's hard to find reliable information about this rear of head setup. Take care.
Another great tech tip video! Thanks for putting these out on RUclips for all of us to see and learn. I'll also be doing the same modification to my GT350 so good to see what it will look like doing it and GREAT tip on the freezing of the pieces to get them to shrink a bit to aid in their installation!
happy to hear it helped! freezing them makes them go in really easily. Learned that trick when installing bushings in the IRS
@@honeybadgershenanigans Good call on that too.
Thanks for making a video on this. You gotta wonder why Ford never decided to start putting these on their engines. They have to know there's a cooling problem in the back of the engine. They could easily remedy this by either partnering with a company like MMR to add this to the assembly process of the engines.
Why not install a small heat exchanger between the 2 connections ? Or route the hoses to the expansion tank.
What about the ground wire on drivers side? That plug blocks the bolt hole so ground can no longer be attached. Not a huge deal, but there are no other threaded holes in the vicinity unless you put it on cam sensor bolt, which isn't ideal
It might not hurt to invest ina killer chiller. No idea if even make a system for the Gt350 because it’s usually seen on supercharged street cars but I’d imagine in this application that it would do dividends for you during track duty. Of course.. you’d need Air conditioning too
I used to run one of these things, but I couldn't validate that it did anything. Add some thermocouples to it and test connected, not connected :)
I plan to. Since I'm removing the engine again (yay!), I plan to add some sensors to gather some more data. I'll test them the same day at the same track and log the data to see. At this point I need to find out based on principle since MMR won't tell you
Placing a threaded stud in the bolt hole would prevent one from misalignment
That’s a great idea. Keeping this one in the back pocket
Just don't ever plan on taking the CTS out ever again when the engine is in the car, lol, right?
I have a NA Coyote right now but I plan on running a decent amount of boost to it next year so I plan on doing this mod this winter. I'd also really be interested if this does anything. I have notice that my CTS (rear passenger head) reads about 20 degrees hotter then my aftermarket temperature sensor tapped into the radiator hose fitting (the one on top of the engine that looks like a thermostat housing) but I'm not sure if there is an actual tempaure difference or if it's just the different way the two sensors read as one is "wet" and the other is "dry".
I wouldn't be surprised at the difference. Cylinder #8 runs quite a bit hotter than the rest and given that's where the sensor is, I can see it running hotter than the water. Is your aftermarket temp sensor before/after the radiator? If after, it's "cooled" and that would also contribute.
@@honeybadgershenanigans
Before the radiator, right on the top of the engine where the hot coolant exits the block. It's a race car and i like redundancy on critical sensors.
@@177SCmaro that makes sense. It would be nice to have a true water temp sensor. I plan to do that someday as well.
you'd think ford would've fixed the coolant issues with these motors by now. i know this is critical for the 4v 4.6's to prevent #8 from getting hot all on its own. I see a coolant sensor on #4, is that right?
i dont see how this will somehow induce more even coolant distribution since youre just creating a deadhead at the crossover, the coolant flow is going in opposing directions through that bridge netting 0 flow. Whats the main issue with the rear cylinders/head overheating? is it just straight up coolant flows from front to back? heat saturation by the time the coolant gets to the back of the engine? If thats the case then you'd either have to split flow to where its entering the block at equal intervals, or induce some sort of restriction at the front so that its not saturated before it gets to the rear of the block.
The early generations lacked a cooling passage between the back two cylinders causing #8 to get extremely hot and detonate before other cylinders with Fords factory fueling map. A lot of aftermarket tuners were able to “tune” around this by adding extra fuel to that cyl. Coyote isn’t the only engine to use this crossover type hose and this doesn’t hurt especially for as cheap as it is. Little peace of mind.
What did you do about the crank position sensor being obstructed? I was able to turn the sensor, plug it in, rotated back and then tightened on the bolt. Curious to see what you did
ahh. I might not have had it on when I did it. Don't remember having to do anything with it
Is there an update to this video yet after 7months? Was looking into this mod,and figured if I have to remove the motor for the best access I might as well get everything all at once so I dont to pull it again for other mods.
Not yet. I put the car into hibernation when COVID hit and it overheated (needed a mental break). Engine has been at the builder's since September getting refreshed. We'll see that happens this year.
@@honeybadgershenanigans Over heated??? What why love the videos brother
I think it was either a bad design choice in my heater core bypass or a clogged radiator. Either way, we’re good now. I don’t run this MMR piece, tho
How does it cool, you're flowing hot water to hot water with no radiator in between for heat exchange.
I don'y personally think it works. I took mine off
Hey man, I'm considering boosting my stock gen1 GT350 (2016 model), and considering upgrading rods, pistons and headbolts (I've already upgraded OPG and sprocket and crank bolt)
Do you think I'm heading the right direction? if my block and heads are in good condition?
additionally i'll be upgrading the fuel system to a return style to make sure i'm safe at all times.
Appreciate your input
sorry that I missed this! If boosting and not consistently sitting at high rpm, rods, headbolts, and OPG/CS are probably all you really need. The stock pistons are good and aftermarket pistons can lead to ring issues. Rods are definitely the weak point when pushing boost. If you'll be sitting at higher RPM, you'll definitely want to look into some head upgrades for better valve springs, Ti retainers, etc.
@@honeybadgershenanigans Thanks a lot man, appreciate that
Curious if you consider running the new GT500 head gaskets? They have an open spot in the coolant jackets around 4 and 8 where its normally blocked off on gen 1/2 stuff.
I haven’t. But I’ll look into this. Thanks for the tip
@Honey Badger #HoneyBadger did this cool cylinder 8 and 4?
I don’t believe it works. Didn’t see a noticeable difference. Took it off on the next engine refresh cycle.
Just getting ready to do this mod. Interested in hearing if it helped.
Before things went haywire at COTA, my head temps never crested 220 in 85* heat, so I have hope. But won't know until I do some proper testing
I’m wondering, could you have just bought an aluminator 5.2 for the same money you spent on your voodoo? And you could have sold the voodoo. I’m thinking of going that route when I get a GT350r. Thoughts?
That would be an absolute waste of money. The Aluminator 5.2 and the 5.2 Voodoo are extremely similar and are basically the same engine. There are minor differences, the major differences are the cobra intake and the cross plane crankshaft. For the price which is ~$21,000 it doesn't make sense because you would end up doing the same modifications. You also have to modify the engine bay a little like removing the strut brace for fitment.
You can turn the Voodoo into an Aluminator for way less. The only thing you need to do is change out the crankshaft.
Not to mention you still don’t have a properly blue printed engine. The Aluminator are good engines when you don’t really ring the crap out of them for hours and hours. If you do, it’s better to get something more meticulously built with some lighter/higher end components.
Both the FP350S and Mustang GT4 cars run an Aluminator I believe. Also Aluminators are hand built using very high spec internals. Have you seen the build video from American muscle magazine? The cross plane won’t shake itself to death. I do agree rebuilding a voodoo will be cheaper especially if you can pull the engine at home like you did. But the Voodoo issues concern me. Those problems with the voodoo are all addressed by the Aluminator ie oil pump, ring sizing, cylinder bank oil transfer during high Gs and head to block tolerances. I also agree the cobra jet intake is ugly and big. Just put a Voodoo intake and throttle body and be happy with 530HP. BTW, I track at cresson and Eagles canyon. I flip from a Cayman GT4 to C7 Z06. But I’m getting ready to replace one with a ZL1 1LE or GT350. Driven ZLE on track and it’s quick and stable.
The fp350s actually uses a CPC variation of the voodoo. Same engine with some valve train upgrades (springs and retainers) and the CPC crank. The GT4 uses a special roush Yates motor that has some secret and is fully blueprinted.
The FP350S, Aluminator 5.2 XS and GT350 engines are all hand built, but they’re not fully blueprinted. They’re very good, but not as well assembled as the fully blueprinted motors from roush or a properly rebuilt voodoo from someone like MPR Racing.
ZLE are very quick and a great platform, just quite boring to drive IMHO. Bit too clinical for my tastes. The voodoo motor (or a coyote for that matter) has more character and it’s a big part of the experience, IMHO.
Yeah I know that about the GT4. Obviously fully race spec engine. But it’s limited to 450HP per class rules. Reliability sauce! I think the key is CPC. Aluminators are hand built at Ford performance engine shop where the Ford GT and Cobra Jet drag engines are made. Not all bent on Aluminator but it is closer to a blueprinted engine than a Voodoo. As far as ZLEs are concerned. I lean towards cars that on track are on rails. I had a MX5 track car years ago and it was all analog and busy. Yeah that high revving engine is fun I’m sure. The Porsche GT3 in manual is like that. Very visceral feeling to drive on track. So is a C6 corvette.
Do you use the OEM gaskets for the headers? If so, do you mod them to fit?
I bought 5.0 Kooks header gaskets. They've been working well for me
@@honeybadgershenanigans Thank you, Kevin. I apologize for being a bit off topic with respect to the topic of the video. I was in a scramble. Great info as always 👍
Hello I am working on at gt350 voodoo need some advice??
Hit me
Did they help with the heat ?
I only ran the car a for a couple sessions while these were in before I blew a coolant line - during the engine refresh I removed them. So I don't have any data of them. I've seen a few racers try and use them with no measurable difference. They ended up pulling them too. YMMV
What coolant line blew?
Lower radiator hose. Had a pinch from installing the engine. Burst under pressure
Any update?
On the engine re-build? Or the cooling mod?
@@honeybadgershenanigans Cooling mod
I removed it after 1 event when I saw others in the community having suspect issues. It's anecdotal evidence, but given that I haven't had issues on #8, I didn't want to chance it.
@@honeybadgershenanigans wait I’m confused. Why did you remove it?
Saw others have issues in the road course community. Nothing directly, but suspect stuff - like no changes between a race engine refresh except the coolant crossover and the engine needing to be rebuilt 12 hours sooner with cylinder 8 being the issues.
Ford doesn’t do this on any of the race cars. And given that none of the vendors can provide any real data on its effectiveness, I decided to remove it.