Ancient TRIBES of Finland
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- Опубликовано: 15 июн 2024
- #karelia #finland #history #tribes
Tavastians, Karelians, Finns Proper, The Sámi People and Kvens, It's about time I made this video! These people will be mentioned alot in future videos that I will make so let me tell you about them!
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irishinfinland
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F.A.Q.
How old are you?
29
Where are you from?
Dublin, Ireland
Where do you live?
Oulu, Finland
What camera gear do you use in this video?
Canon EOS 2000d, Samsung A52
Boya MM1 microphone
What program do you edit with?
Video Guru
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irishinfinland
Ostrobothnians and Savonians were not in this video, Here's the Savonians:
ruclips.net/video/vEzAwa3piq0/видео.html
why is this removed?
Thank you for teaching me Finnish history 🤔. Your voice is soothing and fits these videos perfectly, if you had been my history teacher at school I would have definitely learned a lot more. I think you deserve the nickname "The Irish Attenborough"
The oldest known road in Finland Hämeen Härkätie went from Finland proper to Tavastia. The movement and trade must've been pretty good between the tribes. City of Turku has it's name from old word Turgu meaning a marketplace. I would assume the Tavastians went to Turgu to trade off their furs and other goods to some nice imported stuff :)
I’m a Finn born in the USA. My grandparents both from Finland my grand father was from Karelia and moved to Turku my grandmother was born and raised in Haapavesi and left from Helsinki. I was very young when I was told about both my grandparents history and where they originated from right down to them living in tipis and came from the urals.they called it the valley of the giants my grandfather where land rich in Karelia. My grandmothers parents were very wealthy and she was half Finn and half Swedish she was a Morko which is a very old name she got from her father a seed. Her mother was a Patela which there is still land near Haapavesi that is named Patela. I’m was told they were very wealthy and had stable boys and milk maids. My grand father was a Rissanen. How is it someone who came to the US in 1912 knew they lived in tipis and origin dated back to 5-8,000 bc. She knew of the shaman woman and that she was a healer was seemed out to help even the gypsies to help heal their horses. Each of my siblings have the gift of being able to foresee and heal. Not just the woman but the men to. She told me my grandfather came from a village where they hunted bear and older people where taken care of and the skulls of the bear hung high on a tree like native people did here also. How did that bit of culture travel from Finland to native people here?
I'm full blood sami Finn . there used to be an ancient town named haataja . my moms side were Kahkonen b4 changing to Matson coming to USA my dad's side used another familys name crossing the ocean . i am pretty sure I have the gifts of divinity. I had my eyes recently chamge color from light brown to dark with a dark ring around the color.
@@rissanen1957 I don't think that it's finnish culture that traveled to native americans. Native americans and finns both were in siberia at some point, so probably same people but they split ways. A lot of finns that get ancestry tests done have small percentage of some native american tribe (usually those people have a large percentage of finnish) because of that shared ancestry in siberia.
Hämeen Härkaetie - the Haeme's Bull Road - goes from Turku city to Hämeenlinna city. From castle to castle.
2 parts of it are now museum roads. I drove the Porras-Renko one winter. There is a place, where the renovated road goes in new site, but the original road still exists, too. It is one way road, as wide, as my car. It goes up and down among the natural shapes of the landscape. After approximately 5km there was a very steep hill in front of me. I tried many times, every time with a different method, to drive the icy and snowy road up to the hill, but could not make it. There was no space to turn the car, so I had to drive backwards the whole 5km to the road crossing, where it starts. 😂
Luckily there were no other cars on the road! Driving there (in winter) was like walking on a tightrope!
Elsewhere Haeme's Bull Road is just a normal country road. Still standing, very old wooden architecture can be seen here and there on the way. A big disappointment for me was, that all the forests were in use of wood industry, and views were in many places really ugly. I thought, that there would have been some really old trees by the road, at least by the museum road, but no. Not a single one. 😞
Pity, that this link is only in Finnish. But there is a map, if someone is interested:
www.harkatie.com/nahtavyydet
Oh yes and there is even a song about Hämäläinen’s bull road which indicates it being a main road ”how did you know to come here? ’I came by Turku roads, hämäläinen’s bull roads’”
You can still see the ancient Finnish tribes in the genes of the Finnish people. It's pretty fascinating that the genetic difference between Finnish people living in Eastern Finland and Western Finland is greater, than the difference between German and English (UK) people.
The old tribes are still part of our culture, identity and dialects. Most people know which "tribe" they belong to.
I was just thinking of this. Pähkinäsaaren rauha in 1300 draw a line and you can still see how different these "tribes" other side of the line are. Not only dialects, traditions but our DNA is much more different than for example Swedish and Russian, or Swedish and French! I'm both sides from Osthrobothia area (South mostly), Häme, Satakunta and Varsinais-Suomi.
@Aimo Koivunen äijä oli kyl ite kaikkee muuta ku hidas
Of course the DNA differs a lot, the tribes weren't even related to each other back then.
@Marcus
The "finns" aren't of any germanics tribes or something like that, you're mixit it up with the Swedish people who are all germanics. The Finns ancestors are all of Finnish-Ugric origins migrated from northern Siberia.
I'm Savonian, (very much our own tribe, but kind of a mix of Tavastians and Karelians and everywhere because of the Savonian expancion.) Same families been here since year 1500. My genes tell that too. (And it is common to have some traces of Yakutians too, yep Siberia...)
In the 1930's there were Sami in Alaska. The government brought them to teach natives methods of herding Caribou. They had families and made a home for themselves. Then our government chose to send them back.
Some there still have Sami blood. I know a woman who was told she was part Russian but turned out to be part Sami. She gave a speech at a college about it. I hope someday people can come back together.
The two hands with swords in the Karelian arms represent the West and the East. You can tell by the way one is more curved like an Eastern scimitar while the other one is straight like a European style sword.
You probably already knew this, but I say still say it, because I can:
60km north from Oulu, in Yli-Ii, there's an archeological site called Kierikkikeskus, it's an important stone age site which was inhabited from 5000 bc to 2900 bc. Why it's important? Because before people believed that stone age people would move to north during summer and then move back to south when the winter arrived, and but Kierikki proved that people has lived in the north continuosly
I'm hopefully going to this place very soon!
That was interesting info!
🇧🇷👏👏👏
Hi. Thanks again for nice video, but as a proud Savonian man i say please do not forget us Savonians 🙂. We are between Karelians and Tavastians and have strong and quite unique history (and dialect) too. Keep up the good work man 👍
Sorry! I'll be making a part 2 ✊🏻 Any information or articles you may know about them I'll love to know for the video!
Savonians are known as jokesters of the finnish people. The original trolls. 🤣
@Andrea Brundige 🤣 I meant that many comedians came from Savo. Esa Pakarinen is one of them.
You know far more about our history than I do (and probably most of the Finns). When I was a young schoolboy (I'm 65 now), I kind of liked and disliked history classes. I mean, I liked history and stories, but I hated to learn them (and particularly the dates/years) by heart for next class questions and exams. Thank you Irish.
Appreciate that Ole ✊🏻
I had like the worst History teacher Finland could offer during grades 7-9. He was one of those oldschool teachers who just made you copy a lot of shit on your notebook and made you memorize dates and names to the T. That killed my interest in history for a while. Later I luckily got better teachers that actually told stories about history instead of just facts, and the dates and stuff were more lenient. If you could explain what was happening at the time this person lived or have a ballpark number of what century etc. it was good enough. Now I read and watch a lot of history stuff for fun
I always loved history, especially the history of Finland, since my mother was from there. But there is so little available in English, and I don’t read or speak Finnish. Your RUclips channel is a huge gift!
I was raised with my grandparents who both were from Finland. I was able to get lots of history from my grandparents and my aunt and mother before they passed. I still have lots of family in Finland.
Ostrabothnians (pohjalaiset) and savonians are seen as their own tribes too. Also, check out Bjarmaland.
Savonians are an old tribe of Finland, but Ostrobothnians are a rather young tribe, since they didn't really become their own distinct group until like the 1800s.
Pohjalaiset
Read somewhere that ostrobothnians are a mix of Swedes and tavastians. Savonians mix of tavastians and Karelians. Finns, Tavastians and Karelians are the main tribes.
I think you're blessed immigrant, Finland doesnt deserve you, but it needs you.
Thank you kind sir
The most popular suggestion today for the heartland of Kvenland is Satakunta - to the North from Finland proper. However Kvenland could have at some point covered all or parts of the lands around the Gulf of Bothnia.
I really love that you're digging deep into Finnish history and culture. Not many immigrants do that. Even tho I find it the most weird and absurd thing to be proud of the country that you happen to born in to, I hugely appreciate Finnish culture, history and nation.
Everything is just pure coincidence and luck. So yes, we just happen to born and happen to born wherever and whenever.
Also I find patriotism and nationalism very stupid, lazy and degenerative approaches. Still, some people find the values and morals of patriotism and nationalism good and something to stand for. And it's alright. We are here together with similar ideas and also opposite ideas. That's why I love people.
@@finnicpatriot6399 Why are you bashing me? I didn't insult you. That kind of behavior is exactly what a small child or stupid teenager does. Get your shit together and grow up. That's always the case when someone doesn't have anything to say anymore and lacks of arguments.
@@hextatik_sound Don't mind of him. He is a sort of troll.
@Aimo Koivunen So?
Very good video, if you want to talk about Karelians more there was actually a Karelian independence movement from Russia and a small uprising in which some Finnish volunteers helped, as well as expeditions by Finland to take all of Karelia from Russia. Both of these things in the early 1900s
I am indigenous karelian. I was born in tavastehus(hämeenlinna). My mother line goes back to 1600s to karelian isthmus.
Sielt miun pereh on kotoišin ta kaikki rištikanšat ei sielt pakinoi karjalakši. Siel kyllä šuatih šuomekši ta niise karjalakši. Meilä ei ole virallišta ašemua....a hallituš ei tunništa meitä karjalaišikši ta niise pityä meitä šuomalaišina.
Great work again!
Sigtuna of course used to be "the capitol" of the Sveans - not the Finns.
Thank you for your informative video, greetings from Iran (Persia)
Also, I have to mention that sami-people didn't only inhabitat northern parts but southern parts as well. They first inhabitated the Lake region. There're also people who are called "merisaamelaiset" who differed from sami-people in aprox. 1300 AD.
yea there used to be reindeer-herders and sami people even down here near helsinki, in nuuksio
Except that all inland hunter gatherers were referred to as "Lapps" (today often regarded as a derogatory term for the Sámi people), regardless of their true ethnicity or language.
Therefore not all ancient Lapps were Sámis.
Thank you for the video! Lot’s a fun facts I’ve never heared about.
Karealians nowadays can either mean Karelian Finns or the Finnic people called Karelians who speak a completely different language/languages. Back then they were mostly the latter. The map there should have included all of Karelia (also the larger side that is now in Russia) but a historically accurate map can, understandably, be quite hard to find.
Since you added the Kven, this video could also include Ingrian Finns (not to be mixed with Izhorians in Ingria) and the Meänkieli Finns in Sweden. It’s a similar story with those people as well but it happened a lot later in history. All three speak languages separate to Finnish but very similar. If Finland was never brought together all of the tribes mentioned could still speak separate languages.
The Sami people have a strong nation of their own some of which happens to be in Finland. Luckily we can blame the Swedes and Russians for that but the crimes done to the Sami people in the area of Finland later within the 103 years of independence were done by the government of Finland. The Sami people are also related to the Finns and came from the same area in the Ural mountains back in the day but earlier than the Finns. All of Finland had some Sami inhabitans when Finnic people arrived. The Sami people were not the first though, there were some earlier inhabitans who then disappeared.
I highly recommend visiting the National Museum of Finland in Helsinki the next time you’re there. Lots of great stories there. :)
The notion that Sami are first in Finland isn't true..
Sami arrived here 3000 years ago, and Finland has been inhabited since at least 6000 bc.
All the groups living on the Baltic sea coast share similar genetic backgrounds. Including Finns, but the Sami have only very small similarities to the rest of Baltics.
@@zonu100 True, I never said that was the case. :) The people who lived here before the Sami arrived have sadly disappeared. The genetic similarities with those people and the Finns and the Sami have been researched, can’t wait to find out more about that connection.
The genetic connection is there with the groups around the Baltic sea. Finns originally came to Finland through the Baltics which, I think, explains some of it. The genetic connection between Finns and the Sami is quite strong partly because they’ve lived around the same area for so long and probably also because of that much older connection in the Urals which is where that linguistic connection also comes from.
@@anni8456
This is something I also found out when studying the topic of tribes in the Nordic countries
"Back then" the Karelians were neither Karelian Finns or eastern Karelians. They were ancient Karelians, and both the Karelian language and the Finnish southeastern dialects spoken in the South Karelia province and formerly the Karelian isthmus are directly descended from the dialect of northern Finnic the Karelians spoke at the time. This splintering into "western" and "eastern" Karelian seems to have occurred as early as the 10th century by some estimates, where the "western" Karelian further splintered into the Izhorian language and the Finnish Karelian dialects, while the "eastern" variety morphed into the Karelian we know today. Savonian dialects are also included as descendants of ancient Karelian, but to a lesser degree since they formed from Tavastians and Karelians mixing together. Also the map of ancient Karelians should not include most of what is now as the Republic of Karelia, because the center of ancient Karelian settlement was on the Karelian isthmus and on the western/northwestern shores of lake Ladoga, Karelians settled eastern Karelia later.
@@jokemon9547 Exactly! Thank you for writing all of that as a clarification
I read somewhere that you can often see from which part of Finland a person has his roots. Fascinating but not so strange considering that it is a sparsely populated area and migration has taken place from all directions.
I really appreciate this channel and love hearing about the Finnish history. I'm American, and as well, my mother. All 4 of her grandparents immigrated to the US from Finland, so I'm excited to be 50% Finnish by blood. I'd love to go meet my distant relatives there some day. Thanks, Irish!
First, thank you for the video. My guess is northern Baltic shores of Sweden were the Kvens' area, just for they do come up often in the sagas. Also the peculiar similarities between Estonian dialects and Proper Finn dialects might indicate some early contacts between these two.
Man I liked this video so much I'm watching again 😅👍
"Every day is a schoolday" as my uncle says :D I learned something today. Greetings from the tribal lands of Finland Proper! Do visit sometime :)
My family are from Hame. My mum used to talk about the Karelians like they were a different country, she said their accent was funny to her, like ‘sing song’ she said. When I was seventeen I went to Valamo monastery as a volunteer to work, it was interesting to see how different the culture was in the east
All the way until about late 19th century Finnish schools taught about the Finnish tribes as if they were different people. I once found a geography school book from 1907 that belonged to my great grandfather, they had whole pages on the characteristics of every tribe. It was quite amusing, but still fascinating. If it wasn't for nationalism and the unification of Finnic people, we would potentially still be divided into these tribes either under Russian rule or under several smaller countries.
Great video! Finnish tribes and history before the Swedes don't get nearly as much attention as they should, not even in Finland.
By the way, your "kven" sounds a bit like "Kievan", you could try to pronounce it more like "Gwen", and try to change g->k and w->v
I have ancestors and modern day cousins in almost every corner of Finland.. but the majority were from North Savo in the area of Rautalampi before they migrated to Värmland and Dalarna in the 16th and 17th centuries. However.. another group of my ancestors are from the far north above the Baltic Sea and stretched across the Torne River Valley into both Finland and Sweden.. I have records of some of them going south to Dalarna at the same time others went northwest into Troms and Finnmark in Norway... apparently during a time of hardship. I have a cluster of DNA matches in the North of Norway that are connected via those northern Finnic tribes.. my understanding is the term Kven was given to them by Norwegians after they had settled there. I have communicated with some of my DNA matches in the area that had been Norwegianized.. they had Norwegian names, spoke Norwegian.. most were quite surprised to find out they had over 50% Finn DNA ( and 10+ % Asian).. they were aware of the Kven people but didn't realize they were one of them. Others were Inter-married now with Sámi and were quite aware of their heritage. Recently I learned of a current group inhabiting that same region (The Torne) who call the area "Meänmaa" and speak a Finnish dialect called "Meänkieli". There doesn't seem to be an actual border to this region.. some of my ancestors moved in and out of the area from as far away as Utsjoki and Kuusamo to Overtornea, Kuivakangas, Rovaniemi and Karasjok... wish I knew more but frankly I'm still struggling with it.
Sigtuna wasn't a Finnish town. It was the capital city of Sweden, claimed to be founded by Odin.
Half way watching through your video I was about to comment that the "Finnr" known in the Norse sagas and the "Fenni" in Tacitus' texts were actually Sami people, but then you brought it up. Wow! it seems you have already learned more about Finnish history in a relatively brief time than I was able to pick up in my first 40 years living here. This is stuff that was by no means taught in school in the 70's, 80's or 90's.
Hey mate. I have only recently started watching your channel and as the son of a Finnish father I love it. Incidentally on my mums side im 38% Irish so we share a common bond and im proud of both lines of my heritage.
Keep up the great work.
PS my dads family are from Pyhäjärvi and I have many cousins still there.
This video was amazing. This is the content I love. Good job bud.
The area of Kvenland in the ancient times most likely referred to the ostrobothnian coast, and this is supported by the fact that the word ”Kvenland” comes from the finnish word ”Kainuu” which is a modern region of Finland in the northeast. But originally ”Kainuu” was used to refer to the ostrobothnian coast hence why i think that the modern area of Ostrobothnia/the ostrobothnian coast was Kvenland
very good stuff, making me rethink the word finn :)
i love the idea of you exploring the past of this side of europe.. turning some stones!
The Swedish side of that Kvenland/Kainuu map is somewhat accurate. Kainuu is the same as modern day Kalix on the Swedish side..... Kings of Kainuu/Kvennland have a very deep history and lineage. Appear in Icelandic sagas as well.... ..they were the original dominance of this region.
@@finnelkjaer7461 ..feels more like some equate Kalevala with actual sagas, which are known to be historically accurate. These are not "wishful fantasy"..... ..Perämeri or Bothnian Bay for example, has always been known by it's other name as the Sea of Kainuu...
..Alfred the Great used Cvensae name when referring to northern Ice Sea. The dominance of the region rests in the sagas and actual history, not fantasy.
I want to think that Kainuu/Kvenland is the land of “Pohjan akka” and queens ruled there. Kven/kvinna/queen/kainuu is all the same.
An epic content! Cool! 💎
Loving your recent videos. Fascinating stuff. This is the content I'm here for!
Thank you very much Malk!
This was actually really good👏👏👏
I love the direction you're taking this channel.
The Finnish tribes were presented well but briefly. (the maps also had some inconsistencies)
This is a difficult subject and I encourage people to do more research on this.
Maybe also on the two (or three or four or five...) other tribes mainly Savonians and Ostrobothnians.
I need to point out that the Karelians are difficult to talk about because of the complexity of the word "Karelian".
Nowadays there are two types of Karelians. Finnish Karelians living in current day south (and arguably north) Karelia, the regions of Finland. They also used to live in the south eastern areas which Finland lost in WW2.
And then there are the east Karelians. They live in the republic of Karelia in Russia.
Despite the similair name these groups are very different today. East Karelians are mainly orthodox christians and speak the Karelian language, a sister language of Finnish which is somewhat intelligible but less than any Finnish dialect.
Finnish Karelians and east Karelians have for a long time been two unique peoples but once they were more similair. The border between Russia and Sweden ripped them apart and thus they received influence from different sources. Remember that this happened hundreds of years ago and today the two groups of people are SO different.
Also I saw this cool news story.
yle.fi/uutiset/3-12030116 and www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/995e074c-d0cc-4b2b-8dc6-0e2ec0799fc4
They are unfortunately in Finnish. I wasn't able to find English versions but I tried. Perhaps you can work around that?
It's another story that fits the theme of great Finnish women though this one isn't really a woman. It's an archaelogical find from 1000s or 1100s of a Tavastian person with XXY chromosome making their sex and gender very much unknown. I love the way old Finnish beliefs and culture had such gender equality. Most of the traditional poetry including the things in Kalevala and the lesser known Kanteletar were also sang by women. It really feels like a shame that christianity had to spread here too but it kinda feels offensive to say that.
Anyways keep it up!
Thank you very much for this comment! Lots of stuff for me and others to dig into! Just on the other tribes thing, I'll do a part two of this for sure and talk about them, just for this video I wanted to mention these one specifically because these clans will come up in future videos definitely
@@IrishinFinland for your information, the guestion if Karelia and easter (Viena) Karjala are diffrent languages or not, is a political one. I personally as a finnish Karelian do understand it, and I would claim that we are the same people, only divided by the border and decades of soviet propaganda.
There have always been Finnish Karelians and East Karelians, but people seem to have forgotten that the term East Karelia exists. History made us different people. When a Finn says Karelia or Karelian, they mean the Finnish Karelia/West Karelia (the Isthmus and Ladoga Karelia regions plus the modern day Finnish North and South Karelia) and Finnish Karelians (who are usually Finnish speaking and Lutheran). The Finnish Karelians, or what Finns usually call Karelians, are Finnish. The East Karelians are usually Karelian speaking, Orthodox, and are from East Karelia. They are their own people, but some did live in the Finnish Karelia and were among the evacuated citizens. They may not want to identify Finnish even if they have historically lived in Finland and live in Finland today.
There's nothing offensive to say fuck christianity.
Thank you!! I have missed this in the conversation!
Also talking about the individial tribes is crucial to understand their role in the power-strugle between Novgorod and Sweden. It also puts the expansion of these two into what os today Finland in a different light then many other narratives does.
It could in a future video be interesting to talk about what genetics in conjunction with linguistics have told about the ancient migrations in the area. One cool feature is that it can seen that Finnic speaking men (traders?) migrated in from the south-east and settled with local (probably) proto-sami women.
This also bring the thoughts to the Finnic speaking traders known as "Birkarlar" that for a long time had the exclusive right to trade and tax Sami people in Sweden.
lovely channel! i just left Soumi a week ago. so much history a the national museum on Mannerheimintie.
Thank you for the video! Its fascinating to hear more about topics that are hard to even research online.
Glad you enjoyed it!
thankyou for sharing your research
I'm so glad you made this thank you
Thank you Bill!
Quite good!
Map?
I don't know where you get it, but it was bad.
1. Häme was much bigger. More east than nowadays people know. Even near novadays Lappeenranta.
They got own costline and citys like Porvoo.
2. Most on Karelia is in Russia. In Finland there are only their periferia.
There was so many options with the maps! So how I decided which one to use was look at all the maps and pick the one that would be the average on between them all, but going forward I have some sources for maps that seem to be correct
I wanna see those maps. Quite many people does not know where border goes between Häme and Karelia. That it markable when know what happened later.
A
@Jakke Ledin
I think you're wrong about Porvoo / Borgå. As far as I know, when studying the topic of tribes in the Nordic countries, there were never any "Häme" at this city... Many other tribes yes, but no...
I’ve learned more from this one video than I have in years of searching on my own. I am so grateful. I just started a new job, but as soon as my first check is in the bank, I’m buying you a cup of coffee. You have no idea how useful this is to me.
Thank you very much Christy! And good luck with the new job ✊🏻
Very interesting indeed. The comments returned to you like waves, washing further ideas on to your shore.
You know more about us finns than we finns know our past :) nice to learn new things:)
@@finnicpatriot6399 haha... i wpuld not start to dig because ive never thought where we coming from. Ive never had the idea but nothing wrong with that. If i was interested in the topic normally it would be another story. So thats why its fun to stumble on things like this
@@finnicpatriot6399 Olet Täysin oikeassa
I just have to say. You make these videos about things that we should have been taught in school about our country. At least when I was in school we never went so deep into Finnish history/ancient ’finns’ etc. So THANK YOU for teaching us these things. Many people have no idea where they originate from, not that everyone cares but I love learning about history and genealogy etc. and find out who I am. Can’t wait to hear about us Savonians in the next one ❤
Thank you very much for the lovely message!
Very interesting video and when I watched it I started to think "if I need to guess which tribe my ancestors may had been I think it might be Karelians". And the reason why I thought it might be like that is because me and many of my family tree members have lived in Etelä-Savo which is semi near the Karjala(not 100% sure btw :D) almost whole life. But anyways keep up with this great content man :)
Cheers Markus! Glad you liked it!
We should not forget about inkeriläiset and vepsäläiset. As a easterner I prefer this flag for Karelia with bear in it. Hope we can get our land back someday, this finnish business has went too far..Anyway, nice video thank you irish.
The Vepsians are not a Finnish tribe, but a separate Finnic people/tribe.
The Ingrian Finns are not a separate tribe, but originally Savonians and Finnish Karelians. The original Ingrian inhabitants, the Izhorians and the Votes, are however today considered as separate Finnic peoples/tribes - although originally they were Karelians.
Edit: the Izhorians used to be Proto-Karelians, the Votes Proto-Estonians.
Siniveriset akateemikot suksivat toki lujimmin siellä missä puut kaatuvat tuulessa, kun juuret maahan multaan uponneet eivät saaneet meitä pysymään lujana, kansan vei sanoi vain heihei ei kelleen jäänyt äidy oma ja myö olemme kaikki Karjalasta brihat, kun silmäm ummistan voim nähdä zoman kohdum, omanmaan armahan kalliin Karjalan maan, mis heimoveljet ei erottele siksi täksi kauemmaksi, vain nägyi silmä suuremman, ainiaaksi, hurme hurmantanssi kanssain unenvalssi.
@@Tervaharja Kaikki nuo mainitut heimot ja kansat ovat toki itä(po. länsi)merensuomalaisia, vaikkeivät ihan kaikki olekaan suomensuomalaisia. Itsekin silti koen kaikki länsimerensuomalaiset kansat läheisiksi sukulaisiksi.
Video silti kuitenkin käsitteli nimenomaan Suomen alkuperäisiä heimoja.
Maps of the Finnish dialects still reflect and show where each tribe inhabited. The southwestern dialects are still confined to their little area, the Tavastians dialects reach from the gulf of Bothnia in the west to the gulf of Finland in the east, as folklore tells of the Tavastian lands reaching "from a salt sea to a salt sea". The southeastern or Karelian dialects of Finnish are spoken in South Karelia province, but used to be spoken on the Karelian isthmus, which was the heartland of ancient Karelian settlement. The southeastern Finnish dialects developed from a "western Karelian" splintering of ancient Karelian. These are the original big 3 anyway, the rest of the Finnish dialects and regional subgroups are either breakaways from these 3 or some sort of mixing between them.
You even look Karelian! The nose, eyes and of course the color of your hair and beard. I have joked to my close friend that Karelian's must have Irish blood in them because he and everyone in Finland with a little gingerish tones are blood related to Karelians. However I'm so surprised how similar you actually look in other features to Karelian people I know.
Its interesting that the Finns proper have Swedish flags on their coat of arms, also i think it would be interesting if you could do a video touching up on the Suomenruotsalaiset and their culture and place in the Finnish society.
The Kvens still live there, look Tornedalians speaking Meänkiele. Those Torndelaians moved up north for a couple of hundreds of years ago. I am Tornedalian and have many relatives in Northern Norway. Thank you for a great channel, amazing content. 👏
Kvens and Tornedalians descend from Finns from the Peräpohjola area in Northern Finland, and the dialects/languages they speak belong to the Peräpohjola dialect group. Meänkieli is basically a Finnish dialect with lots of Swedish loan words. For example, the Finnish word for knife is “veitsi”, while in Meänkieli it’s ”kniivi”, which comes from the Swedish word ”kniv”.
Fellow Tornedalian here from Finnish Ylitornio/Övertorneå!
I have a lot of relatives in both sides of the border.
sami first arrived in finland about 2500 years but the bulk of them arrived around 1500-2000 years ago accordung to the archeology
You missed 2 tribes. 1) The Savonians. They were formed from the carelians, but before the Swedish occupation of Finland. It's the eastern lakelands.
I think they were existing already on those times when the Carelians and Tavastians fought,
2) The Bothnians. That name comes through Swedish, which is like misinterpreted form of the Finnish word for Northernes - Pohjalaiset. Well, the word north is in Finnish made from the word pohja 'bottom'. That's because the bottom aja the back of the ent was always set northwards by the ancient Finns. The word for south in Finnish is formed from the word 'front, in the front - lit. on the front': etelä (edellä = on the front, eteen is to the front). Maybe this Bothnian tribe was just about getting formed when the Tavastians and Carelians fought. Later they became known as the fiercest and most eager to fight. Like at least in the 19th and 20th centuries. But already in the Swedish period it was them who rebelled against the crown forces unfair taxation. It was the Nuijasota 'Cudgel, Club War. The name refers to the Finnish farmers having not many actual weapons, mostly what peasants could acuire, like cudgels. Which do bash in an armor, so it was not a hopeless weapon. Just a warrior on horseback was the tank of the era. Did you react to that already?
Tavastia comes from the Swedish Tavast (old: Tafvast). So I wish it would come from Häme, like Hameans or something. Like Caelia comes somehow from Karjala. You likes the Carelians - but keep in mind - they killed many of the forefathers of modern Finns. Tavastians are like the core of Finns, where most Finns derive from. they are considered the 'Silent Ytibe'. Don't speak much - like many think about the Finns. Finland proper just gave the name (through thje Scandinavian name for the Sámi - they mixed the 2 distantly related people). But in reality they speak a very peculiar finnish dialect, having touches of Estonian and Swedish. Don't know what would be such a place in Ireland, but they are like the Geordies of Finland. Geordies were part of the Dane ruled Danelaw, who also produced a few Kings of England. In USA the Bostonians are a bit similar group: they were leading in many details the US revolution, and now are seen as the odd bunch pretty much :) Turku area (SW Finland) has about the same fate. Maybe Ulster is similar in Ireland - did't the O'Neills come from there, and some Irish Kings (Brian Boru?) in the old days?
Later the Carelians were divided in 2 - Swedish (later Finnish) and Novgorodian (later Russian) Carelia.Now the Eastern Carelians are a minority in their own homeland, which is a republic in Russia. There's a few 100k of them, maybe 300-500k - didn't check the numbers. Carelians of Finland are a bit bigger group in numbers, though Eastern Carelia (Russian Carelia) is a much larger area, almost as big as finland - just it doesn't inclides 'a Lapland'. That's a separate region there: Kola (Kuola in Finnish). It's mostly that penisula NE of Finland.
I pointed out on other comments and like I said at the start of this video I didn't miss them, For future videos that I'm going to make the tribes here will be brought up alot, the others not so much or not at all, I do plan on making a part 2 for the ones not in this list
@@IrishinFinland These 5 are the core where the rest come too, so the 3 you mentioned,and Bothnians and Savonians. Sámi people are a different nation.
Maybe you mentioned their names, I don't remember - but at least I forgot it when you represented the others so thoroughly. Just a fair video would represent those 5, and maybe mention that the Sámi are strongly related to the birth of Finland, though they were, are 'neighbours'.
I mentioned this, coz it's like telling about the ancient Irish tribes - was it 4 major ones? - and telling abit 2, and leaving 2 out. Or telling about the countries forming the UK, but explaining 2, and just mentioning the rest.
So the video was good, respectably thorough - just a bit heavy on one side, if it was a truck :)'
@@timomastosalo Those three tribes are the "original" ones. The Savonians and the Osthrobothnians are somewhat younger tribes.
Rgds from Osthrobothnia.
@@timoterava7108 I actually mentioned that, but with different wording. I continued to explain that when representing the tribes whee Finns originate from, those 5 are mentioned. Thpugh the 2 are younger.
@@timomastosalo Yes, but then in your second post you referred all of them as the "core ones".
As an Osthrobothnian I naturally feel my tribe is the most significant one - or at least the best. Still, if I'm honest, the other three (four, if you count the Kvens) are older. They are the three (four) - not five (six) - from which the modern Finns originate from.
And then of course there were/are the Sámis.
lnteresting video for one who grew up in Finland!
If u run out of topics seek information about famous guerrilla leader from 15th century. Name is Pekka Vesainen, he lived near Oulu.
Oh don't worry, currently in the process of making a video about him ✊🏻
These are still very much alive, I didn't even really think of them as ancient tribes! If you look for old tv- and radioshows, the hosts talk about evacuation of Karelia, they say "the whole tribe (heimo) had to relocate" etc.
Great video.
Funny too, you are Irish living in Finland.
I’m Swedish and lived in Ireland ( Co Cork ). 👍
Very good video sir.
Very solid info!
t. A tavastian
My mother is Karelian, from Vouksela. Grandpa Toivo fought during the independence war, winter war and continuation war, along with his brothers. I can vouch for how they were very brave fighters. But men of nature too. Woodsman, hunters and men of the land.
I love the video ❤
Interesting that this video suddenly popped up... Never heared about you before...
I have been studying the topic of tribes in the Nordic countries many years ago. It was not the easiest thing to do... I mean when going back to pre-historic times...
You have the different "sagas", but are they accurate? Then Agricola wrote a lot about ancient times.
You have made a good job here, but not everything is as you explain it. There are important tribes missing, some "facts" are sadly wrong...
And of course, then we also have tribes that have got missing without a trace long time ago...
But keep digging, it will be interesting to see what else you will come up with. How much will it differ from my own research, or will it be more close, lol.
I heard you say all finns come from siberia, when actually only 7% of the dna comes from there. So i dont believe you really studied finland that well
Hey Sir, I really like going back and rediscovering your somewhat older videos. I know you do mostly photography, but do you have a background in history or ancient history?
Yeah I studied history and mythology for a year back in Ireland with hopes of becoming a teacher, but then dropped out because I got offered a great job at Dublin airport that I just couldn't possibly turn down the money, but right now I absolutely regret it, still hope maybe one day maybe here in Finland I'll go back to study
Thanks for the awesome video! I've got an impression that it's sort of the Finnish version of the Three kingdoms.
Btw I wonder if you meant "Swedish town Sigtuna pillaged by Karelians in 1187"?
What a great video! But I have to join all the other Savonians in the comments - we are proud Savo people and often othered by the other Finnish tribes, please don't forget about us 😄
My family from my fathers side comes from Karelia. My surname Joru is from Karelian language. It means propably "mosquito buzz" or "noise/arguing" or it is version of "Joro", wolf. Others from same "Kuikka" family took also other animal surnames. Like "Jänis" rabbit. Kuikka itself means Black-throated loon.
My family is from Lost Karelia (Lost to russians in WW2) from the City of Suojärvi. In Suojärvi there is Jorunmäki, Jorus Hill. There my greatgreat grandfather Filip "Hilippa" Joru or "Joru-Ukko" (Old man Joru) lived with his daughters living at the same plot on their own houses with their husbands, and my great grandfather Vasili "Vilho" Joru lived on next plot of land with his family, my great grandmom Anna and my grandfather Kalevi and other children.
My great grandfather Vasili was on vacation from army when The russians came. They Made him a guide to the Area. And when they had enough from him, they sent The whole family to The interposolka internment/Work camp for The rest of The war. No religion was allowed there, so They had to have religious meetings in secret.
@@astonsuperreal Interesting story, thanks.
However I must correct, that Suojärvi was not a "city" by any possible definition. It was a municipality.
My mother line surnames are villsge names from karelia isthmus koivisto. There was villages called Pönni, Putus etc. But the surnames changed cuz of marriages but still its so cool. Koivisto has a beautiful beach, that is why I feel at home when Im near the water sounds etc. But Suojärvi has a lot of karelian cultures and beautiful houses etc.
My grandfather's surname was Jarvie/Jarvi. The only thing I know about his heritage is that name means "lake"...soooo that doesn't really narrow it down.
Thanks!
Tavastia=hämäläiset and they lived also in few parts of Satakunta. Good and accurate info in your video
Thank you Jarkko! I appreciate the support ✊🏻
Just no on the Sami... Sami arrived in Finland 3000 years ago. They are the newcomers, there is also evidence of other group alongside the Sami, that brought Finnish language here, the ancient seal hunters.
And Finland has been inhabited some 8000 years.
All groups on the Baltic sea have similar genetic backgrounds.
Wrong. Sami are indigenous Europeans, and has lived in Finland since the end of the Ice Age.
Finnish languages were as many, as Finnish tribes. Finnish language was united at 17.century.
Such a thing doesn't exist, like "similar genetic backround" surround Baltic sea.
All People on earth are genetically similar!
6:01 which is why it is called "Finland Proper"
Karelians were a tribe/nation like the others and they are not all part of the Finnish nation BUT there is still separate nations unlike the Tavastians and Finns (Proper). They still have their on language and dialects with in that language. You should make a video abot them or should I say us since I am Karelian and so speak the language. The whole picture is much more complicated. If you want to learn/hear more just send me a message :)
Karelian is the closest language related to Finnish. Before the war there was ab. 40 000 speakers. The numbers are going down, but there are still thousands of us speaking the language. Karelia language not the Karelian dialect of Finnish language.
You should've talked about the savonians and the ostrobothnians too, but great video!
To understand the Finns-Proper you have to get hold of Valter Lang "Homo Finnicus" book that is sold in Finland. It describes based on recent scientific finds the emergence of Estonians and Finns. Per the current theory Estonian and Finnish evolved at the same time but Finns moved to Turku area. As per latest Finns and Estonians came to these areas by known trails made by other Finno-Ugric peoples no later than 1800 BC.
Thank you very much for the tip! I'll try find that ✊🏻✊🏻✊🏻✊🏻✊🏻
My dad is from Imatra in Karelia, it's a tough bunch.
Bless!! 🙏🏻❤️
Interested in the Finnskogen. Have you found anything about this Finnish tribe?
Meillä suomalaisilla ja irlantilaisilla on vanhat muinaiset ja vahvat yhteydet tai minä henkilökohtaisesti tunnen suurta viehätystä vetoa irlantiin, irlantilaisiin. nih ; )
Howya horse. Fello beardy redzer living in Suomi here. What are you reading from? Do you have any sources you found particularly useful? Cheers head.
If you make a part 2 about newer tribes, don't forget about us Kainuu people! (not the same as Kvens)
Part 2 is been currently in the works!
@@IrishinFinland
The Kvens (in Swedish "kväner") germanics from west, settled down along the costline after the latest ice-age...
Related to the Danes (nowadays Denmark, and the Sveas (nowadays Svealand in Sweden.
Great vid! Thanks for the content. Can I get some help? Been researching for a bit now, not seeing anything recognizable for where I belong... My Finnish ancestry has olive skin, black hair and eyes. They migrated to the states 100 years ago. I'm not finding any modern, is there a current city or area in Finland where people can easily be mistaken for asian?
What tribes should I be looking/googling? any help is appreciated, TYVM!
Not really, no such area. But the Sami people from Lapland are often quite dark, but not always. That would be my first guess, unless your ancestor had foreign ancestors. I've also heard people speaking about a dark family line that lived somewhere in Pohjanmaa or Etelä-Pohjanmaa.
There's also this facebook group (or several) with Finnish who have relatives in US and with Americans who have relatives in Finland, but I can't recall the name of it. There you could ask for help with that question. Have you already tried searching from Geni? The Finnish lines are quite accurate there, but you have to be critical and double check everything. But maybe you will find a clue from there. Last name of that ancestor might give a hint, too, but not always. If you have some information about them, you will find them from Finnish records, sometimes easily, sometimes it takes time and effort. Good luck for your research!
I have wondered the same thing about Finns with olive skin and dark hair and eyes because my mother and her father’s line fit that description. He emigrated to the US from Kuortane in South Ostrobothnia, and the genealogy of his family has been traced back to the 1500s in that town and nearby towns. My mother had assumed that they had Sami roots, but I don’t know for sure.
can u do more on frosti n kvenland that my ancestry
Proud Finnish/ Sami / American.
Interesting. :) I don't remember where I read it, but I think it may have been in an old Finnish cookbook; it said that the endings of surnames can show that families were from the east or west of Finland. For some reason that little tidbit stuck with me. I wonder if it's true.
Oh very interesting! Definitely something to look into for sure!
Surnames with a -nen ending are traditionally of eastern origin! Eastern Finns started using surnames before Western Finns: in the west they were using patronyms (son/daughter of...)
@@GalaxyAngeltai Thanks! So I didn't store that little fact in my brain for nothing. :)
worth noting that it proves nothing in modern day names. when surnames became mandatory by law, people literally picked a name or were given one. it wasn't uncommon to change surnames either. my great grandfather changed from from -nen ending name to another here in the southwest coast with no eastern connection whatsoever.
my own surname is swedish because my very finnish-speaking great great grandfather picked it in the 1890's. it was the norm for the servant class to have a swedish surname while the upper classes were already starting to change their swedish names to finnish ones. another common way to get a swedish surname here was in military service, those names are typically one syllable words, easy to call out.
Maybe I have already said this but you should really make a video on Kvenland. Its name ties to the mythical Terra Feminarum, that was said by Adam of Bremen to be situated east of Sweden. It might be that Adam misunderstood Kvenland/Kainuu to mean old norse Kven-land, as in women's land (kvinna in Swedish, or in modern English Queen-land). Already Tacitus said that next to Suedes lived a tribe that was just like the Suedes in all respects except they were so degenerate that they had a woman as a ruler... It is fascinating to see old descriptions and maps of Finland around 1000 AD (few centuries both sides) and see how a half mythical land slowly turns into a real place on a map with towns in accurate places.
I've been collecting information and making drafts about Kvenland since last October, it may be a very long video 🤣 but I just want to take my time with it and be exactly factual 🤟🏻 I would say hopefully within a month it will be released
Nice but where are other tribes like pohjalaiset ( southern ostrobothnia) ?
Thanks for this☺️ I always wondered about a place East of Finland, in now Russia, called Kalevala. Believe that was part of Finland at one point? Not sure why it's named Kalevala. Maybe you can do a video on this🤔☺️
Ohhhh! Another late night dig is in order with this topic!
It isnt called kalevala. It’s called Karjala, even though most ethnic Karelians live in Finland now. Kalevala is the name of the collection of poems and mythology.
Oh, so strange. I "googled" it and saw it on the map as Kalevala. If there is anything to investigate, I would appreciate your investigation. Coffee's on me 😄
I think there's a town in Karelian republic (Russian Karelia) close to Finland, that is called Kalevala.
@@MrSpritzmeister Actually, there is indeed a place in Viena Karelia (or White Karelia) called Kalevala, also known by another name Uhtua. Lönnrot’s Kalevala got its name from it because Lönnrot went there to collect poems for this collection.
Finland is the true Polaris axes of the world. Before the isolation due to ice it was a tropical paradise. Wishing nothing but good for you.
Dude! Check out the Bjarmian tribe!
Just done a quick glance about it, Very interesting stuff need to dig more into it!
I'm Tavastian from my fathers side going way down in history. 1600s or further still. And I'm Karelian from my mothers side, also just as far away in history. I have to admit I've read my history poorly as I've never realised my two families have a history of warfare against each other. :D
Good video .That is more that i know and I am hundred % fin .It is nice to see you are so interested about Suomi Thank you //////
Hämeen linna, The Castle of Hämee, was placed there because of water connections. There ain't long way to ancient castle of Rapola. Again christians wanted to erase ancient places... That Hämeen linna though, it is marvellous! One can visit there and right next to caste they have massive festivals, like Metallica playing (with castle on back, not from this world). The last thing castle did, was being used as a prison. In Finnish we say "joutua linnaan", to be thrown to the castle. Could you please take a look for this castles history?
Sorry wait a second, Metallica? Live? In front of a Castle? Emm WHERE CAN I WATCH THIS!
@@IrishinFinland A few years ago we had a little problem. Rammstein played at Tampere Stadion and Metallica at Hämeenlinna. 80km apart each other 35000 and 60000 people. VR was in trouble, and they released few long trains only for that one day. They were called Heavy trains 😁🤘
@Aimo Koivunen All hail Lalli!💪
@@IrishinFinland Finland has plenty of festivals. I recommend you Seinäjoki and Provinssi(rock). It's annually held a week after juhannus. You can go there by train, at least from Helsinki starts one Provinssi-train, and that track goes straight to Oulu🤔 There are at least 5 stages in middle of museum area in forest. One can see massive bands, I really meen huge ones for three days straight 15-02 each day💞🤘
@@MilenaAnnina yea it's been a lottery win to be born in this town, in few years I've seen rammstein twice here, soad, a7x, korn, limb bizkit, volbeat, offspring, in flames, sabaton, muse, nightwish, prodigy and many more of those rock solid names!
A note on the sami people: they are certainly not the only indigenous people of northern Europe. They came to northern Europe about 3000 years ago. The first ancestors of modern nordic (both germanic and finnish) people began to migrate to northern Europe already when the ice age ended about 10 000 years ago. These were western hunter gatherers from western Europe and eastern hunter gatherers from the east. The western hunter gatherers were the carriers of the blue eye gene and the eastern hunter gatherers were carriers of the blonde gene and these people met here 10000 years ago and obviously mingled.
This argument who was first and who was not makes no sense. The Scandinavian North Germanic people are the direct result and descendants of the people who spread the Indo-European language that would develop into Germanic and then North Germanic. The Sami are the direct result and descendants of the Finno-Ugric speakers who migrated into Finland and then Scandinavia. Both of these groups assimilated the previous inhabitants, who were the descendants of the paleo-European groups that had migrated into the region when the Ice Age ended and guess what, both the Scandinavians and Sami due to the assimilation have genetic traces of these people. It's either both are native based on the genetics acquired from assimilation or neither of them are based on their IE/Uralic derived language and culture. Which is it?
@@jokemon9547 nah
@@jokemon9547 it makes sense because Sami are saying they are more entitled to land compared to any other group today.
The only thing we can say is sami have N1c1 dna, kväner have i1/r1 dna. n1c1 first exist in hungary during iron age coming from asia 22000y ago. i1 first exist 7800y ago in gotland, 25000y ago earliest ancestor.
Narva culture exist long before n1c1 come into finland bringing with it, what is known today as sami culture. Meaning r1b and i1 and i2 again. Majority belongs to U2,u5 and u4 on the mothers side. None of these are sami either.
@@MrFalken91 Sami have less N paternal haplogroup than Finns do. They also have way more I1 than Finns. N1c1 was first in Hungary during the iron age, what? First finds of it in Europe, if you don't count the Volga-Ural region as "Europe", was around the modern border of Belarus and Russia, with the sample being associated with the Comb Ceramic culture. That sample was dated to be 4500 years old. Spread of N1c1 is also probably tied to the Kiukainen culture in Finland. The Sami also have very little eastern maternal lineages, they're mostly western Eurasian and European more specifically. With all that out of the way, it's still stupid to argue which was first or who is more "native", because both Sami and Scandinavians are descended from linguistic and cultural groups that wiped out and assimilated the paleo-Europeans who once existed in northern Europe. If some Sami want to whine about the matter and try to act like oppressed Native Americans or something, then they can do that without being taken seriously.
One thing that's interesting is that the Norwegian elite (priests, academics etc.) in the 18th and 19th centuries were happy to talk of the Sami as the original, indigenous population, because the idea that were colonizers, similar to how Europeans colonized America, was not at all a problem to them. Whatever prestige there was in being the first to settle a land, was nothing compared to being "the superior culture" or race.
And when linguistic and archaeological evidence started trickling in that questioned this narrative - suggesting first that the people had lived side by side for a really long time, and that if anything, Indoeuropean-speakers arrived on the Scandinavian peninsula a little before Finnish/Sami speakers - they were uncomfortable with it, because that would have meant that the Sami may at one point been the ones assimilating and supplanting "them". Awkward!
Well, there is also Bothnia, although they were probably not a tribe as such but there has been habitation from the stone ages.
Where did you get your shirt?
Thank's for interesting subject...again. I am Finnish my self and I didn't know where Finland name comes from. However, just thinking. It might be because no Finn ever call Finland.... Finland. To us it's always Suomi. So your theory supports that. For us it's Suomi and outsiders it ALWAYS has been Finland. (for hundreds of year's). Not sure but I think Suomi/ Finland is only country in the world with two totally separate names?!
Keep up good work and enjoy coming darkness. A lot of time to read and investigate. ;o)
i love you!!❤️❤️❤️😂
Really nice Job! I've always been interested these old Finnish mythologies myself and done research of my own many years ago. Always wondered where the ancient Kvenland was and I think its the area of Kainuu. Because old names of the places can last forever just where they are. And im also from Oulu, now living near Oulu. 😂🤩
Thank you very much Saara! I appreciate the support!
my fathers family is from karelia