How to Perform a Relative Compression Test & Why It's Useful When Diagnosing a Timing Issue (P0016)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2017
- **EPISODE 1** • -Episode 1- Cam/Crank ...
This video is episode number 2 of 6 in a mini series involving a case study of a P0016 problem on a 2007 Toyota 4Runner 4.7L. In this video we demo a relative compression test and show how by performing this fast and relatively easy test can save a ton of time!
If you like what you see, please subscribe, thumbs up, and share!
Email me at Michael.Becker@WellsVE.com
Check us out on SOCIAL!
Facebook - / wellsvehicleelectronics
LinkedIn - / 824326
Twitter - / wellsvecom
Instagram - / wellsvehicleelectronics 
Авто/Мото
![Sean Rii, Karyon, Sharzkii - Taungule [My Love] (Official Visualizer)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eJoMuypbSzQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Eminem - Tobey (feat. Big Sean & Babytron) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9xn0OHEZZ8Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Man this video is very very good. Learned a lot, especially the Pico part. I still can't believe how do shops "diagnose" (parts canon) cars without a scope. It's an imperative tool to have. Thanks Mike, this series is looking great, you teach actually how systems works.
Hey Emmanuel, thanks for watching man! A scope really is necessary and it saves a ton of time. Really in the shop, were only about 15-20 minutes into the diag on this thing! Maybe even faster. All about speed and efficiency. Thanks for the kind words my friend!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Outstanding description of the relative compression test Mike! Very interesting info on your site, gotta use that more often. Thanks so much!
Thanks John! Make use of it! It's free :)
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Hi Mike i really enjoy these vids. I class myself as a novice on any scope work but i do enjoy learning about scope set up and testing.
Looking forward to increasing my knowledge following you along.
Many thanks Tam.
Thanks Tam! Everyone starts as a novice. I for one don't know everything...that's for sure! The more we all grow in knowledge, the better we all are!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Hey dude I watch a lot of videos on diagnostics and you are by far the best. Thanks
Thanks so much Gavin! I appreciate it :)
~Mike
this video is a keeper . Great job explaining
Hey TracyColorado, thanks for watching! Glad you liked it!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Great video series as always guys.
Thanks Matt!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
I really apreciate the very detailed video, it has been halpfull for me. Thanks a lot.
Hey Abimael,
You are welcome! It's always great to hear when our videos help people out!
Thanks for supporting our channel!
~Ryan Wilsing
thanks Mike! great video and explanation.
Hey Robert, thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
A very clear explanation.....you do ti very well
absolutely SUPERB, Thanks for the effort in producing this video, i shall highly recommend it to all my friends in the auto trade. 🙂
Thank you very much Solly Khan!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining you're a star, MIKE, true professional with excellent character,may you be BLESSED
Great video! Liked the use of paint 🎨
Paint can be a handy tool!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Services Instructor
I am putting your website in my computer at the shop immediately tomorrow morning!
Make it happen! Free resources are the best :)
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
I've watched his video at least a dozen times and I have to say my favorite part is Mike's reaction when he reads the instructions on what to do if the cam timing is out or not... Be timed the slow paws perfectly right before you said I can't tell you how much of a problem I have with that. Hilarious
Love, love, love the diagrams, the visual on hooking up the scope and your web site to find a firing order. All great help. Then you plug in the paint program to help read the screen shot...genius.
Hey Wyatt, idk about genius...just showing you guys how I do things. Hope you can apply it in on of your future diags!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
wyattoneable I think these videos are perfect for you!
I try not to miss an episode. Mike is doing a great job explaining things, now I just have to remember what he said. (ha ha)
GOod thing they will always be on RUclips! :)
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Thank you Mike this gives me something good to watch. Love the Relative compression test on this
Hey, thanks for watching man! It's a great test, tons of info in a quick minute...that's what it's all about!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Now I understand why that long time waiting at the car shop.✌😔 good job brother.
Hey Wilson, thanks a ton!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
I watch video. Thanks wells tech. I read with obd2. I got one of bosch codeconnect. Reader. Really easy to read, navigate and nice hand unit. Very simple interface. I am untrained in vehicle ECU so i did quick read tests. No experience with resetting-programming or vehicle restart defaults. Wells tuning very cool video tutorials and computer program setup/usb desktop.
This is exactly how I would address this code. A lot of the time the car is already in the bay and there is not an hour "handed to you". You'll add a little to the repair once diagnosed or slap em with that hour or more if they pull it. Car comes in, time to get after it....quickly yet accurately.......my point is with the capabilities at hand, the option of disassembly will definitely come last. Now certain circumstances you may have to, i understand. But time is money and removing valve covers or whatever isnt the way and of course swaptronis is forbidden. Factory flow charts are totally ****ed. But anyway i do like where the video is going. The couple of Toyotas I've come across with a 0016 or 0012 have been mechanical. Awesome video Mike.
Hey Brandon, only take something apart after you know what is underneath is for sure bad. Otherwise you're wasting your time, right!?
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
@@GoTechTraining Should i use Igf or igt when using a Toyota ignition coil as the sync?
Guys, listen... when doing a relative compression test, disable the fuel injector power supply if possible...If not, disable the fuel pump AND ignition coils.
Great tip!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Good job 👍
Hey, thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Really like the direction you're taking here Prof. Mike. Great presentation thus far. I had no idea your web site offers cylinder location and firing order diagrams. Have to check that out. Man I really need a scope upgrade.
Hey Mike, thanks man! Our website's a wealth of knowledge! The PICO is amazing. Well worth every dollar!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Just took a look around your website. Lots of great info there. I like the little "Sure You Can" pdf for odb1 ignition systems. May come in handy with my thirdgen camaro. Only thing I couldn't find in the website is the closest Wells parts supplier to me in St. Thomas, Ontario.
Hey Mike, thanks man! There is tons of good stuff there! Enjoy looking around. Unfortunately that info won't be on there. You'll for sure find stuff on RockAuto and Amazon. I'll look into it, if there is someone local i'll let you know!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
That would be great Mike. Pretty sure I live in Dormantown.
I had a question. I'm fairly new to using an oscilloscope. My question is. When you back probed the coil which wire did you back probe? Thank you In advance. The work you guys do is absolutely amazing. Can't thank you enough
nice job Mike as usual >>> today I got very about Relative Compression Test that Mr Paul Daner never mention it
Hey Magid, thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Good Morning 🙏 🌄 ✨ Mike Becker
Great tutorial thank you very much helpful video thanks 👍
From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧
By the way, the screenshot tool you used (Greenshot) can also put text on the image. You just need to select "Open in Greenshot" instead. No need for Paint.
It can also draw boxes and lines as well.
Blocki, that is great advice! I'll have to try that out. Thanks!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Great vid on comp test and well explained but my 1st test would be vacuum guage check. Vac will be low if its out by 1 tooth.
Hey Anthony, thanks! Yeh, a vacuum gauge is a solid test!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Good job
Thank you Mohamed!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Thank you very much use full video
Oooooh can't wait
Thanks for watching Desmond!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
OH you're doing an awesome job here Mike ! And don't think I don't see you stirring up the comments 😉
heheheheh
Don't mind me! And, I see i'm not the only one! Thanks man!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Since you have a pico, you could have used Pico Diagnostics software to do a relative compression test. Results are much clearer to read (in a bar chart) and all you need is to hook up test leads to the battery. And it still gives you an option to look at the waveform if you like.
Thanks Vitamin B, i'll keep that in mind for next time!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
You were right Mike. The Walmart yoga pants are much more slippery than the Kohls brand. I'm still sliding off the edge of my seat waiting for the next episode! haha Another great job with the video.
HAHAH I just fell outa mine laughing! Good stuff man! Thanks!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Hi Mike. I recently ran across the Wells videos, watched a few so far, and I am impressed with the content you and Wells VE have put together. A very nice presentation using the Pico scope (I am looking to upgrade my scope) and a common sense troubleshooting approach. I love your hit on the service manual instructions...as a small shop owner, I agree 100 percent! Also considering the purchase of a Launch Tech X-431 Pro 3 and would like to know your thoughts on it.
Hey Lanceair151! Welcome, and thanks! I hands down recommend both PICO and Launch products. I have never used the Pro3, but if it's anything like the LaunchPadII I'm sure it's great! Thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Wells Vehicle Electronics Thanks for the reply Mike. I already pulled the trigger on the x431 pro 3 earlier this morning, so we will see!
Wells Vehicle Electronics FYI - Looks like my phone picked up on my other account so you might see Lanceair151 or Lodestar replying!
All good! I hope you like it! I'm sure it'll be great man!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
great video Mike excellent pico scope skills I didn't even know about paint I have a 200 -2000 pico clamp and just wondering if you set it on 0-200 amps would you of got more granularity on your initial signal either way you got there thank you mike
Thanks Mark! Paint and Google draw can be super useful! It's possible....you could also throw a filter on it too to try and clean it up. I wanted to show it raw because I didn't want to add more to the testing. I wanted it quick and dirty and simple.
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
In the real world I doubt there are many techs who would waste time on this test, me being one of them. Here’s the beauty of these types of fault codes: The computer tells you what the problem is and where to look! Of course there are preliminary checks you should do, but when you consider a 10+ year old car with god knows how many miles, and we all know how prone timing chains are to stretching over time regardless of maintenance, some of us might be a little more confident making a call without getting into a case study
Now, you say you need to advise the customer on the correct repair the first time which is the right way to do it... but this scope test you did here still doesn’t tell you exactly what the issue is, (it also didn’t tell you anything that the fault code already didn’t) so in the end, what is it really worth? Even if you scoped your cam crank and compared to a known good, you’d still be unwise to tell the customer they need only a timing chain before tearing it down. See, there’s a right and a wrong way of selling work. If you say you need X amount of time just to check valve timing based on your findings, you’re doing it wrong. If you tell them based on mileage along with the fault code it looks like it needs a chain, but you need to tear it down to verify there’s nothing else wrong, your hands are clean if they ok it. You didn’t waste any time solely checking valve timing, and the “job” is being done at the same time as your inspection, because you sold it that way. And if you find additional problems once it’s apart, you already covered yourself when you advised the customer
For the sake of teaching, there’s something to be learned from this video. Even If this is how you’d approach an issue like this in the shop, I guess there’s nothing wrong with that. The issue I have, is being told from all angles that I need to spend 8K on a scope setup, when more than probably 98% of the time not only does scope data not tell me exactly what the issue is, it doesn’t tell me anything that I don’t already know. As well, there are alternative testing methods (to be used with conventional tools) that can be applied based on available symptoms, other than using a scope
I agree with some of your points. But remember this is a case study video. In Real world time we would have our data and analysis in 15-20 minutes. This is why a lab scope can be helpful
~Ryan
@@GoTechTraining I know, I’ve said this a million times, that a scope is a great teaching tool, arguably more useful than for diagnosing. This video wouldn’t teach anyone a thing if all you did was scan and tear down
Mike ...Can we consider the relative compression test as an integrity test for the mechanical health of an engine?
Say when buying a used car would it be a good idea to do a scope relative compression test to see if the engine is any good or not........What do you think?
Thanks a lot again for your continuous superior quality classes.
Yes, YES, YESS!!!! That's is a great IDEA! Relative compression is a fantastic integrity test. Just keep in mind that an engine that's low on compression on ALL of the cylinders will not show up here.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Sure Man..... That is what I was thinking also....👍..👍
Mike love this series. Like the way you use paint. I have a Pico with windows 10 can I use paint or do I have to download it ? Take care
Hey Mark, Thanks! I believe windows 10 still comes with paint...if not, you could use PowerPoint as well.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Services Instructor
Does the pico do fwhm (full width half max) or peak integration? Those two metrics could quantify less subjective results and eliminate the need for mspaint. Which, btw, is a great hack!!! Awesome stuff
Great relative comp test explanation, is there an ep 3?
There is Ed! This was a pretty long series actually. Make sure to check it out!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Awesome
You said that you should see a compression difference between both banks if timing is off on one of the banks.. but what if the engine only has 1 bank? What steps would you have took then?
See if you'd have done like the dealer you'd already be on your way to tearing it apart and if it's not bad well the customer will get cam sensors just b/c it's already apart and then put it together & if it doesn't fix it then we'll just have to do some more diagnosing by changing out the ECM without checking anything else b/c we all know if it's not the timing it has to be the ECM...I'd laugh but it happens all too often and luckily there are those of us that simply laugh at it and diagnose it just like you're doing. I guess they haven't heard of CMP/CKP scope waveforms but then you don't get to charge the customer for the teardown...it's crazy. Nice diagnosis so far Mike and the clincher is coming!
Hey Bob! The dealership hate! Not everyone in a dealer is bad news, but there does seem to be a larger percentage of parts changers there rather than the independents. It's sad. Diagnose then tear down...work smarter not HARDER! Hopefully this series gets that into peoples heads! :)
Thanks Bob!Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
It's not the tech's fault a lot of times. They are at the mercy of who they work for. Some of my best friends work for dealerships and they have some tough times. They do the best they can and I get work sent my way also when their hands get tied. Be glad you have good people you work for and luckily I work for myself so if I have a problem with him I find myself talking to myself alot :D
I've been there. The manufacturers want to pay the tech 0.3 hours to diag a DTC...WHAT IS THAT?! They have created a monster. They tried to be cheap, and now its going to start costing them way more! Haha sometimes working for yourself is just the way to go right? And you are only considered insane if you answer yourself in your conversations...with yourself! Haha!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
The logic just blows my mind sometimes. The definition of insane is when you keep doing the same thing but expect different results but if your statement is true I may need help :D
Haha what logic? Right? Naw, I think you're alright. You gotta get a shop dog, they are good listeners. You'll see mine in the 5th video :)
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Is there a chance that oil hole is plugged (customer never changes oil) and phaser just stuck in one position and physically can't change timing? At that point whole engine is junk and can't be revived? Great video! Can't wait for next one!
Hey SPD Parts. Great question, I don't want to give toooo much away. But no, not in this case. It will be explained in the 4th video, stay tuned :) Thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
I have a CA-600 high amp current clamp with 2 banana plug connectors. Can I use a banana plug to BNC adapter to hook it up to the scope?
On a negative controlled coil in the system you have pictured which side of the coil do you back probe, positive side or negative side. I’m not to familiar with scopes I got an older modis with a 4 channel scope and I’m trying to learn how to use it better. I’m sure I could figure it out if I need to but I thought I’d ask. I used it before on a coil ramp test and I used the positive lead on ground and the negative lead on the coil negative side. It worked but I didn’t know if was the best way
Hey Jason, I always put the negative lead of the scope on the battery negative, or a good engine ground. Then you can put the positive lead on the ground or power side of the coil. Power side should show you a constant 12v feed. Ground side should show you the control of the coil from the PCM.
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question
You're welcome Jason!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
I have a good ear and usually just spin engine over. It's not a definitive test, but if you have a mechanical compression problem then you can hear something wrong. A broken valve spring can be intermittent too since the spring can hang on itself - seen that on a hemi. Spin engine and listen and you can here the compression loss on that cylinder. Timing is a little more complex to pin down, thanks! But don't forget that a clogged cat on 1 bank can fool you, but you should have misfires all on that bank maybe but sometimes it just shows P0300. Problems I've had are like those trucks someone swapped a Dodge 5.2 for a 5.9, problems are more difficult to nail down with mixed parts and old junk. People who do that should fix the truck themselves because the cost can get real expensive in a shop. Wrong parts, sensors, wrong injectors, and bent flexplate sensor ring or wrong flexplate with intermittent misfires and backfire! What a mess, not to mention the vibration because they have the wrong flexplate and/or torque converter! Scope won't help you much in these situations, and the shop bill is more than the truck is worth. Don't walk, run away from these type problems and don't get involved. I have a basic rule of thumb, if I have no clue after an hour diag, time to get help or move on.
Have a Cobalt with P0300 right now that another tech diagnosed a timing chain, but the air temp says -40F hum... this IAT looks like a Map sensor but it's not. Got 4.8v at IAT, 5v ref and good ground, that don't sound right 🤔
Little things, like listening to an engine, are things that are learned and can't really be taught. They are super valuable when testing. Experience can save a ton of time! That's a good rule of thumb. No sense in wasting a ton of time on something!
That doesn't sound right! How does that -40 not just jump off the scan tool for the first tech?!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Mike could you back probe a coil from 1,3 or 5 with scope signal A, and do another relative compression test with you focus on the
Continue: height of the compression wave in relation to when the coil first firies. If the peak of the compression wave is either way after or before the peak coil wave in signal A, the timing is out, and may indicate a jumped timing belt.
This has been brought up to me by multiple people now. I have never done this test....but I definitely need to next time I get one of these in!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
hey mike at 500ms/div try upping your sample rate to 6MS and filtering after the fact. paints a pretty picture
Good tip Kevin, i'll have to give that a shot. Thanks!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Which wire on coil do you back probe. Has 4 wire connector
I use the Verus Edge and have a Pico 2000A clamp like this video. Any quick way to determine the correct voltage scaling for set up purposes?
Hey Mike, depends on what you are doing. If you're taking a relative compression test I always start at 500 amps and see what happens. It's rare you are trying to record the "spike". Depending on the car you may even be ok with 250 amps.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
useful
Hi ,please what is the cost of that particular obd diagnostic scanner you are using and how can I ship it to Africa
Good job Mike, are your parts available through WorldPac?
Hey Allen, I am not. Only training I do is out here on RUclips. In the future we may offer more, but not right now.
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
hi there mike, for a good engine what should be the max amp peak?? and viceversa.....
Alekstolstoi, I don't think we can put a number on this. This varies soooooo much depending on so many factors. We aren't really using this to judge compression, but more-so to judge the cylinder to cylinder. We want the peaks to be similar.The max amps isn't really a necessary spec. If you are looking for specific compression I recommend a transducer or compression gauge.
MIke Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Mike, great series, love all your training and NGK/NTK products. Listen. we are working on a 2006 Lexus IS 350 with P0017. Customer Shot the parts cannon at it and surprise nothing is fixed. I want to use this process, waiting on my probe kit from AES to get here. I am using the Snap On Verus Pro with M4 Scope, how would you set this up, I am new to using scopes. Much like you, I was a dealer tech for years and never used one while there, now I regret it but such is life and we move forward. any help on this would be appreciated.
Hey Sal, thanks for watching! So you will want to scope the cam sensor(s) and crankshaft for the bank related to the P0017. The cam sensors are probably hall-effect meaning I'd set my voltage to 10 volts. The crank sensor may be hall effect or variable reluctance. If hall, set to 10 volts and see how it looks. If variable reluctance, start at 20 volts and expect and a/c signal.Time on the Snappy scope is the tricky part here. Unlike PICO where I can capture a TON and zoom in, Snappy can only zoom out. Start at 50ms and see how that looks. You want to see two revolutions so you can see the repeating point. Then you'll want to compare to a known good to see if the timing is shifted. Good luck!!!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
@@GoTechTraining Mike I'm having a little bit of a hard time if I were to send you screenshots of my waveforms would you mind helping out? Just looking for a professionals opinion
It is ridiculous and you are talking to my boss directly. He just pulled the front of an Infinity G37 and the timing cover just to check the timing.
I'm guessing he doesn't use a lab scope? lol
That sounds like a lot of work!
Thanks for watching!
~Ryan
@@GoTechTraining He thinks it's a waste of time while it took him a few days to transfer parts from one infinity to another until he gets lucky. A crank and cams correlation to check the timing then energize the vvt would have given him an idea on the next diagnostic steps. The best way to get him upset is to research the code on alldata or prodeman.
What if I have 4 cylinder engine how can I use this test? I will have no other bank to compare?
This video should sell 1,000 scopes. I have the Vantage Ultra and love it.
Hey Rgeier11, maybe it will, I hope it will. But what I really hope this does is that the guys who are afraid of their scopes...that are collecting dust...I hope this gets them outa the box and in use. It saves so much time. Thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
I'm a high school automotive instructor and the scope, with training and some pre-existing knowledge, is powerful. Almost too powerful.
Awesome! You are more than welcome to share this video or any others with your class if you'd like. I wouldn't say too powerful. As a tech I honestly don't think there is such a thing as having too much knowledge or power. No one person can know it all. That's why things like RUclips and Facebook groups are great. Share the knowledge and the power!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Thank you again for the great videos. I know how much work and planning goes towards a good lesson. You consistently knock it out of the part. Keep it up!
Thanks! I appreciate that! I do all this work and planning for this exact reason. Thanks again.
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Good video. Can't you just move the lead to a bank 1 cylinder and trigger off a bank 1 cylinder and repeat the test. If the compression max doesn't line up with the coil voltage change, then you know you got a timing issue. Otherwise, the lower compression peaks likely don't mean that much.
Hey Steve, yes you could. I wish I would have done this on this car, but I didn't. I may just have to make a follow up video on shoulda, coulda, woulda's!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Exselecte diagnostic amigo. Mi. Respeto. Pero tengo. Una. Preguta. Tenica. Cual. Es. El. Punto. De. Chekiar. La. Compression. Con. El. Pico. Osilocopio. Amigo. Como te das. Cueta. Ke. Silindro. Estas. Dañado. Como estas. La cosa grasia
El gráfico contiene altos y bajos puntos y el lado con los pistones 1,3,5 tienen mas bajos los puntos en ejemplo del episodio vídeo 2. Bank 1 está fuera de tiempo. Mínimo
I have a 2.0 2009 dodge caliber which shows a negative 120 degrees on the exhaust cam, versus a positive 120 degrees on the intake cam! This is a po017 code! It won't do any good to do a relative compression test to determine whether or not it has jumped timing!
On a V6 (3.6), if the relative compression is all good, can this necessarily rule out a stretched / jumped timing chain on one bank ? I'm thinking that low relative compression might only show up under load.
Hey Joseph, relative compression is looking at all of the cylinders. If there was a bank to bank issue you would see it in there...but if the entire engine is low on compression then you'd never see it.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining I'm getting close to 170 lbs on every cylinder - does this eliminate the timing chain kit as the cause of a bank 1 camshaft correlation error, or does the engine need to be under load?
Poo16 , cam correlation bank 1 .
Hey, Mike. I don't see you use an attenuator and a low amp clamp with the ignition trigger. Isn't it possible to use an amp clamp and an attenuator to protect the scope?
Hey, input range for the PICO 4225 scope is 200volts. Anything over that would require an attenuator.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Thank you,Mike. I have a 2204A picoscope. I guess I am going to need an attenuator for an ignition trigger as well as an injector pattern, right?
From what I'm reading, that scopes is overvoltage protected to 50V. So yeh, you'll want to use an attenuator.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
I have watched this video a few times. And I noticed the constant dip in currant before TDC Is that because of timing is off ?
Can it be used as a clue?
Good observation Robertofkennedy. I'm not sure. I've never used that to look at timing being off. It is something i'll keep in mind on the next one I see and we'll see if it remains consistent.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
So did u try checking timing with pressure transducer???
Haven't gotten that far yet Vince. I will. Hopefully tomorrow or Friday!
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Will a relative compress test help for a four cylinder timing belt check
Probably not Trublue2319. A timing belt that has jumped will show all the cylinders low on compression. Relative compression really would only be useful when trying to isolate a cylinder/bank issue.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Thanks for
The great teaching lessons
What lab scope are you using?
Hey Shellumus, i'm using the PICO labscope. Fantastic tool...VERY highly recommended.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
Hey bud! I have a 2009 Jepp Patriot with this code and I'm trying to figure out if the Belt slipped and it's out of phase or is it something else. It's important to know that I had a head gasket issue last summer and used one of those liquids to that you put in your cooling system since I had a coolant leak. So my question is, could this be the reason why this code is coming on before I tear up half an engine to check if crankshaft and camshafts are in phase? I have the time so maybe I should do a compression test first? And it's only 4 cylinders so it shouldn't be that bad. Finally, the fact that the car runs (not optimal, jerking when cold but OK, plus I have a constant engine light on) could be a sign that it didn't skip and can be the head gasket. How do I tackle this? Thanks!!!
I forgot to mention that a year ago I did a new water pump plus belt so there is a chance that guy didn't tension everything right. I was told that these engines are notorious with two tensioners and the whole VVT system. Speaking of, I was f***ing around with solenoids that go on the belt but put them back after I figured out those where not camshaft position sensors, long story 😁 But I am wondering if this had something to do with it even though I had the check engine light on before that. Sorry about the long rattle but I just wanted to give you as much info as possible.
Hey, I don't see how adding that stuff to your cooling system could set this code...unless it caused your engine to severely overheat. You'll most likely need to verify proper crank/camshaft timing.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining so the fact that I had to do this goes to say that I have a warped head and leaks on the gasket. So before tearing shit up and checking if the engine is in phase would it be possible that I am getting that cylinder misfire code because of the leaking head gasket again?
Sure, a leaking head gasket could cause misfires. At this point it may be wise to look into a reman or used engine. May be more cost efficient and reliable than what you are currently dealing with.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
What brand scope are you using?
Hey AutoTech, we use a PICO 4 channel scope.
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Hi mike excellente video, one question mike, how do you backprobe cylinder #4 ? I did not see what was at the end of the cable that goes to #4. Thank you mike cheers from Ontario ca,
Hey Everardo, thanks for watching! I put my backprobe into the ignition coil control circuit on cylinder 4. This gave me a sync. Just right into the backside of the connector.
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
@@GoTechTraining thank you mike, I got it
Hey grate video. Im confused abou the cable back probably too.. is there a specific wire or just clip on to all 3 wires ?
Every time I go after a Toyota fuel pump relay, it's called a C/OPN relay and it's buried and/or integrated with the under dash fuse box, never to be seen again. If there's a spot labeled for fuel pump relay in the under hood block, it's a blank space and the C/OPN relay laughs at me again. Then, if there's floor access to disable the fuel pump under the rear seat, said rear seat will have child car seats and what looks like hurricane debris level family junk in it and under the seat will be stale or soggy cheerios, cheetos, and skittles that have somehow melted and molted and evolved into some parasitic life form that's suddenly stuck to my arm and it looks like it's moving....get it off me....You got the fuel pump relay under the hood...Why yes I'm whining. What gave it away? Anyway, thanks as always for the videos. Now seriously, go get something to pry this skittle amoeba thing off my arm.
Shaun, this was great! You should write short stories! Ugh Skittles were the worst! How did they ALWAYS end up inside of sliding door panels!??!?!?!
Mike Becker, Senior Technical Instructor
He's talking good tech talk but what about the folks don't have access to that kind of technology.
Hey, thanks for watching!
Mike Becker, Senior Instructor
Pressure transducer time
Hmmm...is it? Why would you go transducer next?
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Wells Vehicle Electronics just to check the timing and then both cams and crank each bank
But Vince, how does the pressure transducer check the timing? What are we looking at with that transducer? Not saying you're wrong, because everyone does this different. But what would you specifically be looking at with your transducer?
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Wells Vehicle Electronics
720 of crank rotation channel a pressure transducer channel b on 1 3 or 5 sink just run it for a min see if your timing marks are in sink
How do you see the timing marks with a pressure transducer?
Mike Becker, Technical Services Instructor
Thank you for calling and thank you for visiting this is obviously you're here because you want to be to tell you I don't know this white boy's name you call him uneducated educated high school diploma okay get in my way let me talk to you let me talk to you what we going to do today
Ok. So, I agree there are quicker ways to perform diagnostics. Where I disagree is the hour of diagnostic time should be looked at as a sacred totem which never will be questioned.
Fuck that.
Get paid. If you really need extra time diagnosing a problem……. Get that time!!!!
Yes, the customer has to pay for it. We are pretty much the only industry where we shoot our selves in the foot over pride.
Big reason you have good techs living in fucking poverty is nonsense like this.
Make your cake, brothers!