It’s been like this since game release it’s rock paper scissor and some patches expansions some classes are op some are not I feel like all classes had their moment but it’s non stop crying from salty WoW community that’ll never end
The real problem with starting PvP as a new player is that you don't just lose, you get stomped HARD. You lose in seconds and can't even begin to put up a fight. Most people aren't going to have any interest in doing that for as long as it takes to start getting geared up.
Oh don't worry. Even if you have BiS gear and try to jump in to PvP you'll still get absolutely curb stomped. You'll never be able to control your character unless you know which frame you need to use your CC breaks or immunities. If you get one even a half second off, you're just dead..
Getting geared up. You mean the like 4 hours it takes to get enough gear to compete? I don't even play wow anymore but the PVP gearing is not even a system anymore. Also, the 3v3 solo shuffle is a joke and you should simply run a melee dps that is meta. You will do better than 80% of the player base if you do.
@@reason8439 it takes more than 4 hours but its not that bad. the first month your conquest capped but the cap rises with each week. so you get your cap which if you win alot can be done in 1h than you do your normal pvp games to get vault which doesnt require rating and some open world pvp stuff to get blood tokens to get beginner pvp gear which is 3 item level below the best arena gear. If you are not honor cap before the season launch you have to farm honor gear before that in bgs or arena this honor gear is 10 item level above auctionhouse arena gear.
Bruh.. I was playing phase 1 of SOD as a warrior. I just ding 25, I charged on a hordie I saw in the open world... the charge straight up misses and he doesn't get stunned. My hamstring misses or gets resisted or some shit. Like 5 seconds into the fight he is 100% healthy Meanwhile I'm already dead and all my spells missed lol. I'm like okay that guy had raid gear and a good weapon, i just need gear, makes sense. I try to get in a pub for the level 25 raid and after 20 minutes of spamming LFG I gave up and never logged back on again 😂
Yep, this is the issue, not the gear. It is clear Asmon doesn't play pvp at all, otherwise He would understand. I don't mind farming the gear, that is actually the only fun part of it. I get my items pretty fast, then I still get stomped because only smurfs play pvp and I have zero chance if I dont have 2k+ recent exp.
Early dragon flight season 1 I hit a wall at 1600 and was curious why I couldn’t push much past it. Then I went on a stretch being matched up against Xaryu, Mitch, and pikaboo separately over the next few games. Quit right after lol
There's a study with rats that finds that if the bigger rat doesn't let the littler rat win at least around 30% of the time, the littler rat stops playing altogether. If you're new to pvp, you'd be like the littler rat in the study and I'm sure humans are similar and would need to win some of the time to stay interested. If you're constantly trounced, not only do you not learn anything, but you'd probably quit as well. I'm not a big pvper, but I've sampled both classic wow and retail and at least with classic I was doing alright for somebody with no experience, but it felt like with retail I stand no chance of winning at all. Idk, maybe with retail there is just too much going on, and I definitely think there're too much button bloat.
True. Also, if there is too much to learn at once, most people will just give up. On PVP you start in BGs, where you have 5 other players doing shit at the same time and mos tlikely you don't know what happened or what they did, while also learning what to do on the BG and general PVP strategy and how to play your class on PVP. Too much at once to process. On PVE you need to understand your own class and the dungeon itself. You don't need to worry about the other players unless you're high on M+.
They just need to remove ridiculous time gated grinds for gear and tier sets and whatever stupid thing they decide to add and all problems will be solved. You`d have more fun builds, you would be able to equip gear for certain comp`s instead of insta lose, you would not care about precious rating as much, more people would play on top of being able to easily make alts etc etc
They should never have linked PVE and PVP (or at least PVE and Arena). Even back in Burning Crusade all the fun builds were nerfed to hell to fit arena. It was infuriating.
@@hyaku_my_shikiliterally the first time I’ve ever heard this game mentioned in a PvP discussion and for nearly a decade people actively told you to avoid if you are looking for PvP.
Project ascension has been the best pvp experience ever. They are constantly revolving around the basic elements of pvp only you can choose whatever talent or spell you want to build into your class
to be fair Starcraft and Warcraft had multiple races which played completely differently and Starcraft1 and 2 is still one of the best, balanced, competitive games ever made.
To that guy who was comparing new WoW players to new League players. bro, in league u hit ur skills they take damage, u get hit u take damage. In WoW PvP When I hit someone I dont even know whether i missed, whether im lagging and damage hasnt registered, whether dmg is absorbed by some shield or wtf is happening.
FF14 also did the same change last expansion, the pvp experience is still not great due to netcode and nature of the game, but it’s a massive improvement, about 10-15 skills for each class and each skill has its place.
It sounds great on paper, but when you dive deeper you get a a dissonance. Why should something work on players differently than on mobs? There are ways to explain it in an RPG like with gear effects for example, but just straight up making it work in a different way is not satisfying in the end.
@@user-tv3hd1km4w ff14 always had separate skills for pvp, what are you talking about? They just revamped a little in previous expantion, but its pretty much the same
PvP died for me around Mists when they made healers so ridiculously OP that a geared DPS player couldn't even make a dent in an ungeared healer. I always enjoyed playing random battlegrounds but that just utterly ruined the fun for me.
The funny thing is the solution to that is simple, and Priests already had a similar talent in the game early on. You get a stacking buff reducing the damage you take depending on how many targets are attacking you. Ta da! Now healers are balanced for everything from duels to 40 man bgs. Lol this isn't rocket science.
I think GW2 had or has a feature where when you queued for a pvp match everyone had access to all stats and runes. You customized it and we to battle, all skill based. You had to learn your character, not farm for gear. Everyone on equal ground.
Except Guild Wars 2 doesn't have CCs and the limited pool of skills makes it harder to outplay any player. Essentially if another player knows their damage rotation you wont have an advantage against them and vice versa.
Macros and button bloat are a MASSIVE problem. For some classes, like paladin, you have blessing you can use on 3 party frames, turning 4 buttons, (BoP, BoF, BoS, LoH,) into 12. For instances like rogue, you can use stance macros to turn backstab/ambush into the same button that takes no thought to upkeep. Can put tricks of the trade in the same button, set to a focus target or party frame, making what would be 4 button presses, (target tank, tricks, target enemy, ambush) into a single button, ambush, which auto targets the thing in front of you, and uses tricks on tank auto. High end of the game is making sure you're using the right macros and not even the buttons that are actually in the game.
To make asmons argument for him: Wow pvp being unfair because of gear disparity in other games would not be tolerated. What if in league of legends you got to start out with one maxed item based on your rank, and new players got nothing. Thats gamebreaking at lvl 1, and snowballs into the rest of the match. In wow pvp, that advantage is set in stone and will not change through the duration of the match. So basically, the opposing viewpoint is, go lose until you get gear to be competitive. Not get good, get gear. Thats bad design, which is what baldy is trying to emphasise.
But getting the best PvP gear is so easy in WoW currently. Do you have to farm a bit to get it? Sure, but you can farm it at any rating and once you have the gear, it is automatically the highest possible item lvl for PvP. Gear difference was more of a problem back in previous expansions when your PvP item lvl was tied to your highest achieved rating. Since this is removed, all it takes is go in and farm a bit. People can literally lose all their rated matches and they will eventually still be able to get the best PvP gear.
M+ ruined WoW in general, not just PvP. The thing is, people don't play it because they love it, they play it because they have to. It will never change while Ion is in charge because it is his brainchild.
The thing is - without it there is not that much to do in the game. I remember times before Legion. 2 raid nights and basically afk for the rest of the week until reset. Paying 10 eur for that is just plain stupid.
If u dont enjoy m+ dosent mean people play it because they have to. Tbh its the only thing why im playing wow and raiding ofc. I dont really enjoy pvp but i dont hate it either lmao all of u in this comment section complaining that u cant play because "there are too many buttons to press or u need wa or addons" wich are a part of the game and everyone uses it. And talking about classic was better spaming 2 Skills and auto attacks until u level up and 4 buttons in end game content. All of u just sound like a bunch of old mans probally like 30-55y. Classic Andy's lmao
@@poorpriest4549And yet I remember actually being subbed to the game and playing because it wasn't an infinite grind with infinite difficulty levels. I could just have fun pugging heroics and showing up to a Normal raid night and still feel like I was making progress..
I'm one of the 40:60 players, Whitemane stayed that way for all the way through 2019 Classic release, until TBC launched. I enjoyed the shit out of it. Me and the buddy both played druids(such shit in classic) and would go ROFLstomp level 60s at level 45. We'd deliberately go hang out in front of the horde Hinterlands base on the shore where they had nowhere to go to get out but the thin beach, and we'd annihilate everybody, level level 50. 2v3, 2v4, as druids lol. We used every single last little thing to our advantage. One time my buddy got chased by someone who about got him, he decided to go navy seal form and outrun this guy in the water, but this guy was relentless. He kept chasing for like 10 minutes up until this point. My friend goes down down down deep and of course this guy chases him down and drowns lmfao.
No people want to be the underdog, only issue 99.9% of people aren't capable of making come back as underdogs. Their spirit is broken or they really don't care about winning in a game meant for PVE not PVP. When classic wow was released in 2019 all the people thought they were going to be the next underdog and make insane pvp plays, yeah no its whoever had more people won.
Remember when they nerfed enh shaman mana regen, and NOT ONE person at the entire company actually looked at the implication, because it made enh shaman go immediately oom doing their basic rotation not even healing.
or when they removed MP/5 so paladins sucked due to no mana regen, or removed spirit so druids sucked because no mana regen, or removed tree form because whiny rogue crybabies were mad they couldn't 1shot/stunlock trees
Depends on the class when it comes to necessary key binds. As far as addons, yeah sure I couldn’t play pro, but I can get glad with 1-2 addons and no weak auras no problem.
In GW2 you have 2 pvp modes: A stat matched mode where everything's balanced, and a world pvp where you use the gear you have. Does WOW not have any mode where it's balanced?
@@rafael00kl So... It's like WOW? There's reasons why it is the way that it is. A lot of those reasons are circular, and self fulfilling ofc. Heck: I'm not interested in playing it. You have to actually pay attention.
@@fallbranch wow amount of people >>>>> gw2 pvp community. You have 1k+ ppl in c2 wow with 2200+ raiting. And about 250 ppl in low gold elo in gw2 with 15-20 games))0
Every MMO with balanced modes have garbage PvP. Why play a grinding MMORPG if your gear doesn't influence your power? Anyone would have a much better time spending on games like League of Legends where you don't need to grind anything and you just get tossed into PvP. Makes no sense to have balance PvP in MMORPGs, no wonder games like FF14 have PvP modes as a joke.
@@alexanderfiedorov925 I mean I agree, but idk why having your gear would make it any better. It just meast you can't participate till you're bis. I think it's just weird people who are into it.
1:15 Gw2 is handling player skills in PvP (and World vs World) differently, cds/damage output are not the same as PvE. Also the PvP gear is free; you don't need high-level gear, the game mode provides it for you so there are no imbalances for that matter. Also the flexibility of builds is enormous so PvE builds do not work in PvP/WvW and vice versa. Problem solved. PS. A reminder, 'always' and 'never' are absolute words, most of the times are not valid.
GW2 PvP is the reason I still play the game. It is just sooooooo damn good. Countless types of builds & it's pure skill. People don't understand hoe damn good GW2 pvp is unless they actually play it.
gw2 combat takes a fucking age to kill someone though, realistically most people dont care about balanced gameplay they jsut want to have fun. Dota and elague are insanely imbalanced but they are played a lot
@rickroll9705 Bro do you even play the game ? Shure if your fighting in cele vs a minstreal heler you wont be able to kill each other but try doing that to a zerker willbender and see what happens... One of you will melt in seconds...
Said it back then, will say again now. Gear needs to be equalized, get rid of conquest gear and just have honor. The stats can stay but the ilvl difference needs to go.
Will never happen, the Nature of Mmorpgs is of people having higher level, stats than you, better gear with better stats, thats what makes world pvp interesting. Even so, even if your against a higher level guy with better gear, you can still kill them if your better.
Ffxiv does this perfectly: 1) Everyone is normalized; everyone goes in with the same stats per character 2) Abilities are completely redesigned for pvp; they're tuned completely separately
@Ephemeral96 it's only not as good as WoW, because WoW feels better to play. The inherent latency built into FFXIV just makes button pressing feel worse. If FFXIV had the same feel and responsiveness as WoW, FFXIV PvP would be one of the better ones in an MMO that doesn't focus on PvP.
FFXIV is by far the worst pvp experience of all MMOS, its soo bad tarisland pvp wrecks ffxiv lol. That might be breaking news but when people make a warrior with a giant sword of doom they dont want all the cool abilities they like to use to isntantly become another thing entirely for the sake fo balance, which nobody in fact cares.
100% agree. PVP is a cancer. PvE is what 90%+ of what people are playing, PVE to level. PVE to raid. PVE to farm crafting stuff... nerfing for PVP balance ruins games. Lots of asian games have abilities do a whole different effect when used against players, and that helps.
World pvp made classic wow way more fun tho imo. The world felt alive with other people which also made it dangerous. Sadly that feeling is long gone with retail.
Battlegrounds aren't too hard, people are just too stupid. It has been like that with every BG. They don't understand base priorities like flag > kill.
They also don't understand that if the enemy team just completely stomped them at the start and are just sitting in mid, that no one is going to sneak a flag by them. The guy in gy screaming GUYS GET THE FLAG is the kind of person who captcha would prevent from logging into WoW
It's amazing how after all these years WoW still doesn't have 2 versions of the same skills: one for PvP and one for PvE. This was done back in GW1 in 2005 so there's absolutely no excuse for it not to be a thing in WoW. Would also make the abilities way easier to balance since Blizzard wouldn't have to be afraid of any changes made directly for PvE to have big changes in PvP (they don't care already)
The worst part about WoW's PVP state is that people keep talking about balancing issues when the CORE issue is the rampant cheating. It's a crazy rabbithole to go down. But wow's mechanics are dated. There are so many undetectable auto-clickers outside the "pro" scene. Any regular player that tries to PVP will hit that brick wall eventually. The cheating is rampant and nobody is talking about it.
My favourite PvP in WoW were those smaller scuffles when leveling in stranglethorn or hellfire peninsula. But players usually don't start open world PvP without a noticeable level advantage 😢
Remember one of my favorite memories when vanilla classic dropped. Went into stranglethorn at level 30, began to cross the bridge the same time as an orc warrior. I was a paladin. We stared each other down a bit, bowed and began our duel. And it was a grand time of 2 idiots trying to beat each other before a priest came along, feared and smite spammed him dead after I tried to tell him to stop. While it was a fun short interaction, it was a fun time knowing that another player was respectful enough to duel a player out in the world 1 on 1. Never had it happen again in my time sadly.
PVP been an afterthought in WOW for years. Like if you still expect to get actual development with focus on PvP first and foremost, this isn't the game for you since quiet some time.
I'm not huge into PVP but honestly I LOVE the idea of Horde vs Alliance, but also yeah PVP has always been super sweaty and broken so while the idea seemed compelling to me, I didn't end up enjoying it because I had to be sweaty as well.
Haven't played WoW in any form what so ever, but when I see the amount of buttons on screen in-game, I can only compare it to the control center of a nuclear power plant.
Also how skills in pvp are not 1:1 compared to their pve counterparts. Some skills are actually completely unrecognizable. Also gear/ level doesn't mean jack shit in pvp
@@Vielle-Lothaire and how is "How they do skills in general" can do anything for WoW pvp if their PvP is truly unexistant? just stop it no one wants that in pvp just PvE boys who close to never pvped in their life
I just dipped my toes in PvP a few weeks ago and yeah, I have no idea what is being thrown at me 50% of the time. All the buffs on top of it. So many buttons, etc. it gets overwhelming.
Imagine this, you queue into a solo shuffle match as a frost dk for example or any of the other shit specs cause you think it might be fun. After 30-60 mins of queue time you get a match. You see the lobby and it is 3-4 meta specs who basically turn the game into an anime, and you are the side character.
@@hellowrld5234 even during peak hours it would take minimum 10 mins for queue at this point of the season. And if you think frost is fine to climb, i would ask that you link me your rating thro any website that tracks it. For context, you can get roughly 400-500 more rating by just switching to unholy.
@@lichblaze1277 if dks are 2800 as frost then its a you problem, i like how you backpedaled from your 30-60 min. i dont play frost but im getting them in my 2.4 lobbies.
@@hellowrld5234 read the part where i mentioned solo shuffle, not 3s. I didnt backpedal, the 30-60 min queues are still an issue ever since season 2. But you can get some 10 min queues during peak hours. You didnt link your frost dk solo shuffle rating to back up your claim that they are fine. If you dont play the spec, then I am not interested in what you have to say.
There needs to be a new revamp to WoW PvP. There needs to be a separate talent tree with less choices and the amount of spells needs to get squished down when inside an arena and BG. PVE and PVP need to be two separate entities.
I do gotta say, mad respect to windhawks for being willing to show asmon how to find his character and having the guts to let asmon basically put him on blast for his take. I would have roached out of that situation and taken asmon not being able to find his as a win, even if I were as good as windhawks. This guy had a freaking spine.
@@misternoodle1236 On my end, I just find it sad that he was in danger of being banned in the first place. Asmon can be a real ass about anyone disagreeing with him.
The root of all their problems is the same, instead of making "WoW, the greastest MMO of all time!" they're making "WoW, new power grind to keep you busy, daily quests to keep you logging in, mythic dungeons for cheap endless content, cash shop!"
This is actually why I like MMOs with horizontal progression more. GW2 is one example of this, but I don't think it takes it quite far enough. What I mean with that is imagine that at end-game you have multiple sets of armours and weapons that are more than just stat sticks, but actually have interesting effects that are good for certain and also some very niche and strangle builds that can all excel in their own way and basically creates a bit of a sandbox for PvP.
Planetside 2 is a perfect example of this. Your starting weapon is basically the best one. Everything else you unlock is either a sidegrade or better in a very specific niche.
@@fanis1414 I didn't think of Planetside 2 immediately, but now that you mention it that game is a lot like what I describe. I personally mostly play ambush jetpack with shotguns lol.
Asmon, the reason why some of us like PvP in WoW is very simple - there is no other third person tab target game out there. The day a company makes a game like WoW arena is the day we won't need WoW PvP. Other competitive eSports are great, but they are totally different when it comes to gameplay so that's the issue.
@@serialdrunkdriver I didn't even know that game existed. I looked through some videos, and the idea is good, but it needs more polish and marketing. I think it's to soon to say that there isn't a market for this type of game. You could also expand it and add other "for fun" modes like battlegrounds, etc.
@@crazyforcs Damn you missed out unfortunately. It was an extremely small-scale project that peaked in community attention around January 2022, it was definitely rough, and therefore hard to market, but they really nailed down the feeling of wow arena as perfectly as one could expect. all the classes actually felt like their respective counterparts in WoW. i was so impressed by that shit.
Tbf asmon isn’t good at PVP…… in any game. He’s a PVE guy so when he says 2:00 ”I don’t understand what’s going on and I’ve been playing for 10 years” buddie you been playing PVE FOR 10 years and getting powned in PVP for 10 as well
@@lukapaunovic7943 It does though, if he wasn't so bad at pvp in general his arguments would hold much more weight. Anyone who thinks moba's are a better alternative for MMO pvpers is simply out of touch with said audience.
You already know the truth: if you want to do PvP, for fun or professionally, you have to play League of Legends or an FPS. It's been like this for years now. The fact that Blizzard doesn't care about PvP should be enough for you ("you" = PvP players in World of Warcraft). And if you think that the problems only exist for PvP you are thinking wrong. Remember when Blizzard said they wouldn't add an interrupt for the Holy Priest because "It would be too strong in PvP"? So what? Why can't you add it JUST for PvE? And why can't you increase Single Target damage for Mage JUST for PvP? The problem is for the entire game but you continue to play it and pay monthly. So please...shut up.
The solution for wow pvp is on the table since original cata came out , its called arena tournament. Basicly make pvp server where you can buy endgame gear from pushing rating as it is on the private servers then all pvp players wont need to grind raids and they can just smash arena , simple as that.
The main reason a PVP MMO like The Elder Scrolls Online works is that 1. Base stats and protections are nerfed/manipulated depending on the game modes you are in. Making it separate from the base PVE experience. 2. There are drops and progression items that PVP provides that can be used for PVE and PVP, but they are all tradeable and accessible to non pvpers through the in game market 3. And the biggest reason imo is that there are so many different viable builds that a player can use from base game sets to the latest expansion, it is very possible to remain competitive. Even with the newest expansion, with all of the extra versatile skills it brings, a base game player can remain competitive and even excel in each different form of PVP. WoW and most traditional MMOs don't have any of this.
Blizzard doesnt care about them but still they get the best looking mounts in the game each season and the best looking gear sets that normal regular players (90%) have no way of obtaining.
Not sure how people don't understand Class advantages are overwhelming and it kills the fun for people. DH are insane in pvp. There are *exceptions* based on players, but more often than not, it's the case.
War mode needs to go. Bring back the old Honor system and remove Global flight/dragonflight/anything that could serve as a pussy way out of the MMO world. This is the only way forward to fix this dead game. No content, no game mode, talent system, class, AINT NO NOTHING else that can save this game!
if you need a special mouse to play the game its doomed. remove 20 buttons from every class, pressing a bunch of binds doesnt = skill, add skill remove buttons
Asmon, I respectfully disagree with your perspective on PvP in WoW. I started playing WoW primarily for the PvP aspect, and the ability to customize my character, collect mounts, and explore the world was incredibly appealing. Some of the best times of my life were spent playing WoW with my cousin when we were beginners. I still vividly remember our world PvP battles, like the time we ambushed a level 25 priest while we were both level 20. He defeated us so thoroughly that we ended up running for our lives, splitting up, and getting caught in separate one-on-one fights. Or the time we found a powerful monk on a cliff in the mountains and fought him 2 vs. 1 for 15 minutes before finally defeating him. We would often team up in battlegrounds and arenas, grinding together and reveling in world PvP in Stranglethorn Vale. Those moments were unforgettable, and I practically lived in Stranglethorn Vale, where I defeated thousands of Horde players (whom I despised). I even led a guild that regularly attacked Orgrimmar, creating massive battles between the Alliance and Horde in the Stranglethorn Vale arena. Now, the world feels empty, and the item level system is strange and imbalanced. They have ruined many aspects of the game. I wish they would revamp WoW entirely, introducing rewards for world PvP, balanced armor ranks similar to League of Legends for the arena, 1 vs. 1 arena matches, and new battleground maps with more imaginative objectives than just conquering flags. There are so many potential fun and engaging modes that could be added. If I had the power to redesign WoW, it would be the best game ever made.
People will endure unfair PvP if they think they will have the unfair advantage at some point. People don't quit because it's unfair. They quit because they don't see a path to being powerful themselves. It's not a fundamental issue, it's a design issue.
Arenas killed wow pvp. The only forms of pvp should have been battlegrounds, world pvp and 1v1 duels. Arenas added unnecessary level of competitiveness, complexity and balance issues.
Agreed. At least with BGs and world PvP skirmishes the unfairness could be reduced by having strength in numbers and abusing other mechanics such as gliding, walking on water, etc. to get a tactical advantage. Even if you were undergeared you still contributed by assisting geared players and dealing with objectives if necessary. Chaotic, but fun nonetheless. Arenas on the other hand expect things to be a strict PvP format, but with a more "balanced" and "fair" playing field. Though, that has never been achieved ever. Yet the time and effort Blizzard have put into fixing an unfixable game mode has made the game worse. I had way more fun doing world PvP and ranked BGs than I have ever had stepping into those cursed Arenas.
what suprise me is they never tryed making a moba that plays like wow pvp without being linked to the pve game so it can get proper balancing and everything as long as it is a mmorpg with pvp they keep deleteing their old class for new class design every expansion wich is wierd in pvp aswell it make more sense if nobody played the class... but getting into pvp in a mmorpg like wow is pretty much wich expansion made the class feel fun to play in both pvp and pve if it only feels fun in pve and not in pvp then whats the point of the pvp and pvp is why we dont get alot new classes instead reinvent the old one people enjoyed and lose every expansion bobby when he was ceo failed to see a potential in a moba separeted pvp game based on wow with visual microtransaction
He always approaches wow pvp and all pvp as a esport thing. The majority of ppl dont play games cuz its a esport pvp game they play pvp games because their friends play it.
MoP was great example of when the internet started impacting the game. Only 5% of the players actually knew how to play their class in pvp. Now those "Meta" spec's are available to 100% of the players. The same player that would get one shot knows how to win a 1v3 because of the internet. (Yes certain classes could easily 1v3 in MoP)
As a new player I love PvP rn I’m currently 2200 duelist and I went against smurfs all the time back when I first started. Every game in existence has Smurf players I just learned to get good. To me pve is kinda boring doing the same dungeons and same raids over and over again, in PvP it’s a different experience every time
This is exactly why wow needs to do a different system that does not use PVE abilities. Just create an entire new system like ff14 does that the abilities act differently than they do in PVE. Just separate the 2 completely.
@@rickroll9705 a lot of people play ff14 pvp. It just has its own seperate system. The abilities and bars are all different. Totally independent of the main game. Why wouldn’t they do this? You can balance pvp and pve seperately and could even add in unique gameplay to pvp that isn’t there now…
@@rickroll9705 FF PvP was switched up and a lot more people play it now. That said, your PvE and PvP kits are completely different, it auto swaps your skills to your PvP ones when you join a match. Your PvP kit is smaller and has it's own flair per class, your gear is normalized, your level and HP is normalized as well. Or you can just stick with WoW unga bunga brain gameplay where whoever has no-lifed the game has better gear and stats.
The big mistake was trying to brute force "competetive gaming" into a fn mmorpg. PvP in WoW should have remained BGs and open world. Arenas were a huge mistake as it completely changes how you need to balance the game.
i wounder if making a standalone version for arena with it's own balancing, tweaks and generic gear would (while not super popular) actually make it "e-sports viable" giving it a shot at actually growing into something that isn't completely irrelevant. your characters, transmogs, mounts, pets ect. ect. carrying over both ways (with some nice looking pvp cosmetics to earn thru performance)
standalone 1-5man roguelike and standalone competitive pvp. and when i say standalone i don't necessarily mean a standalone game launched more like along the lines of how timewalking characters work.
I said it once, I'll say it again. Asmon's opinion and take on PVP is completely and utterly invalid because he simply hasn't played it enough to be able to have a viable opinion on it. "ti's not fun" PVP has always been you getting shit stomped until you do the shitstomping. That's every MMO PVP ever, except for GW2 that normalizes your gear and weapons while allowing you to pick secondary stats and effects.
Finaly some 1 said it .. When Venruki or Raiku even Xaryu say somehing about pvp i take them srly. But Asmongold... Never ever was a pvp-er spams 1-2 as war and dies ... Wtf should i do.. comon he should do what he does best make twich kids happy...
his opinion on anything wow related should be invalid bro hasnt played for wow seriously for more than 3+ years now he cant even clear normal cata raids and complains they are too hard lmao he is nothing more than a react streamer rn.
and bro literally said BGs are hard to understand? Like WTF is hard to understand about them they all have most 1-3 objectives to do that anyone with 5 IQ can understand there is nothing complex about them
This topic is as old as WoW itself. If i remember correctly PvP in WoW was a afterthought, not ment in the base game at all People were just angry that they could not attack each other ( the ork vs human) so they added that stuff in to the game. WoW in its core base was suppose to be a PvE game. To fix or tweak PvP as the game is now i think you would have to design a PvP skill tree ( basically a mirror image of the existing skill trees just with tweaks for single targets, resistance etc.) and make it avaible ONLY in PvP zones ( arena/ battle grounds/ pvp servers in the world etc. ) and when you have it on you cant do dungeons/raids or change in to them mid dungeon/raid.
Even in niche PvP MMO's most people still PvE. Eve Online is considered one of the biggest PvP MMO's and thier devs circa 2013 said that over 70% of thier player base doesn't actively engage in PvP or go places where PvP may happen. The whole conversation about asymetric matchups. Imagine you queue into 1v1 PvP. Classic Mage vs Classic Warrior every time. You're the warrior. How long till you quit?
Original WoW PvP was great as it was. Classic servers are more fun than retail. SOD is more fun than retail, even with the new additions and imbalances. SOD just needs time to find balance. Every expansion of WoW progressively got worse. People just used arena rating and the progression of arena settings to pretend like it was better. Less fun is never better.
it's also annoying being a caster in pvp when every interrupt stops you from casting. like being a fire mage and being fire locked every time you cast. or, having to wait till max lvl to do certain things like brawls, as soon as you hit max lvl, you're going into bgs against a fully kitted out rated bg practice team that just steam rolls you. ya, some people use that to drive them to try harder to get geared and constantly que for randoms, but like you said, it's boring as all hell when you spend the majority of the bg either dead, running back to the fight, or cc'd/spell locked. i stopped pvping about half way thru pandaland cause it just wasn't fun anymore and i'll never pvp again. every expansion i try a few bg's just to see, and every time, i'm reminded that it's not cata anymore and i just suck at it lol i have enough stress in my life, don't need pvp to add to it 😂
Tried to arena in shadowlands first week arenas dropped. Got to 1200 rating in 3s before i hit the access wall. Nobody would team with me as i had no prior expansion arena experience. So maybe more would care about pvp if the community let new players learn to pvp. Same fpr mythic plus. My ret pally had 5 of 7 almost fully upgraded faction armor and my torghast bis legendary unlocked didnt matter. I couldnt do anything more than a plus 2 or 3.
The thing is that no one plays modes like these for fun, its just for farming achievs, titles and gear. People simply rush those things to get the best things possible as fast as possible and be done with it, if you try to do these activities mid expansion or do slowly is just asking to have a bad time. Honestly, if you are doing these thing mid expansion its better to just farm gold and pay for boosts, its much faster. Group activities pugging on wow sucks because the playerbase sucks, the game is fine as it is. On cata classic, it took me one week to farm honor gear as horde, and it took me one day as alliance, both pugging. The amount of times i was matched against premades as horde was insane, i was burned out already on the first day. I took 12 losses yesterday, for example, before i won one bg, it was the worst experience i ever had on wow. I feel like wow pvp nowadays is just the same people that farm on premades really early on launch and just keep stomping people all day long on random bgs and have been doing this for years.
My biggest problems is the buttons and status' etc to know what's going on in game. That's why I like so vanilla so much but it's even too much there sometimes. LoL is a great example. Very minimal buttons wise.
Dark Age of Camelot in it's peak had world pvp down. PVP can be good in an MMO and still is in DAOC but the game is so old that hardly anybody plays it. If somebody could just recreate the things that made DAOC good back in the day on a modern engine, it would be a masterpiece. The MMO PVP Andy's would finally have a home again.
PVP in GUILD WARS 2 is Balanced, Superior and NOT a SIDE GAME. You can also level from ZERO to HERO in just PVP or WVW without even touching PVE. It's challenging and fun and constantly gives rank rewards 24/7. Oh, and its fun AF!
Yep I realized that too. As a player who mostly played pvp since tbc and got at least 1900+ on every expansion (not an expert), dragonflight is a pain in that sense, also one thing to add is the micro cc, every time you are getting rooted, stunned and from where?? Its not even a second of cc but still, you can't move. For me, the best pvp experience I had was in lich king then tbc, where one wrong counterspell for example you are doomed. Well, its not the same game anymore, I quite a while ago both retail and when cata released and enjoying a bit more casual games.
What he said about majority of ppl in an MMO not doing PvP says a lot about the decline into this genre's popularity, i've been an MMO enthusiast since 2002, and for a decade 80% of the players from the most popular games (except WoW maybe) were there for PvP. And i still bring this approach into every MMO i play, i see no reason to play one if it's not to progress your character/gear to be unstoppable at PvP.
This expansion is the most balanced pvp has ever been in terms of viable classes. The reason people dont like PvP is they arent used to it, theres alot of things to look out for, track and watch while you are doing as much damage as possible. if you go in and try to do your PvE damage rotation without learning other classes abilities, you will obviously not get very high. The majority of players will never get to gladiator, the same as most players will never clear 9/9 mythic.
Grand marshall, s1,2, etc arena grand master. Also rated bg GM, Baneful here. Just to break down my qualifications. Yes, i agree with the Aoe, but Az's take about the buttons is the MAIN reason. I stopped playing for a few expos, came back for dragonflight. It's insanely hard now to keep up with the keybinds. I played a hunter and priest, came back and played a DK. I think my pvp dps rotation was somewhere around 22 key binds. If you didnt keep up with every season of arena, it's impossible to get back into it now. Vanilla hunter was something like 8 binds. You had to know when to use each bind, then there was 5ish more situational binds (like quick switch to track hidden). Compared to my MAIN dps rotation of 20+ now on my dk, plus 10 more situational. It's insanely hard now.
@MrMattyb87 I gotcha, lol. I didn't log in to check the exact title. But you get the point. I was a high end pvper, and now it's ridiculous. If you didn't change keystrokes every patch to keep up, it's impossible to catch up now. I had a 2400 season 1, now it's just too intensive
Feels like people have been making this video for at least 10 years now..
People cant let go. Its hard trust me. I been pvping in WoW since 2005 and letting go of something I put so much work into..... Just hard.
Unless PvP makes them more money than literally everything else they don’t give a fff…. Rip wow PvP players
WoW pvp was always a joke. Not even Blizz cared about it seriously.
It’s been like this since game release it’s rock paper scissor and some patches expansions some classes are op some are not I feel like all classes had their moment but it’s non stop crying from salty WoW community that’ll never end
Try 20
The real problem with starting PvP as a new player is that you don't just lose, you get stomped HARD. You lose in seconds and can't even begin to put up a fight. Most people aren't going to have any interest in doing that for as long as it takes to start getting geared up.
Oh don't worry. Even if you have BiS gear and try to jump in to PvP you'll still get absolutely curb stomped. You'll never be able to control your character unless you know which frame you need to use your CC breaks or immunities. If you get one even a half second off, you're just dead..
Getting geared up. You mean the like 4 hours it takes to get enough gear to compete? I don't even play wow anymore but the PVP gearing is not even a system anymore.
Also, the 3v3 solo shuffle is a joke and you should simply run a melee dps that is meta. You will do better than 80% of the player base if you do.
@@reason8439 it takes more than 4 hours but its not that bad. the first month your conquest capped but the cap rises with each week. so you get your cap which if you win alot can be done in 1h than you do your normal pvp games to get vault which doesnt require rating and some open world pvp stuff to get blood tokens to get beginner pvp gear which is 3 item level below the best arena gear. If you are not honor cap before the season launch you have to farm honor gear before that in bgs or arena this honor gear is 10 item level above auctionhouse arena gear.
GIT GUD
Bruh.. I was playing phase 1 of SOD as a warrior. I just ding 25, I charged on a hordie I saw in the open world... the charge straight up misses and he doesn't get stunned. My hamstring misses or gets resisted or some shit. Like 5 seconds into the fight he is 100% healthy Meanwhile I'm already dead and all my spells missed lol. I'm like okay that guy had raid gear and a good weapon, i just need gear, makes sense. I try to get in a pub for the level 25 raid and after 20 minutes of spamming LFG I gave up and never logged back on again 😂
The last thing people want to do at the end of a long day is grind out pvp gear just to get stomped by glad smurfs in 1400 lobbies.
I never won in WoW PvP. I never understood why I lost either. It was just "oh a guy. Oh my skills are all blocked. Oh I'm dead. Time to respawn"
It sure is fun to get matched with someone who's your exact class and spec, except with 40% more health and twice your damage output.
@@pewthepuny2849 This is caused by powercreep inflation which exist beocuse of millions of difficulty levels.
Yep, this is the issue, not the gear. It is clear Asmon doesn't play pvp at all, otherwise He would understand. I don't mind farming the gear, that is actually the only fun part of it. I get my items pretty fast, then I still get stomped because only smurfs play pvp and I have zero chance if I dont have 2k+ recent exp.
Early dragon flight season 1 I hit a wall at 1600 and was curious why I couldn’t push much past it. Then I went on a stretch being matched up against Xaryu, Mitch, and pikaboo separately over the next few games. Quit right after lol
There's a study with rats that finds that if the bigger rat doesn't let the littler rat win at least around 30% of the time, the littler rat stops playing altogether. If you're new to pvp, you'd be like the littler rat in the study and I'm sure humans are similar and would need to win some of the time to stay interested. If you're constantly trounced, not only do you not learn anything, but you'd probably quit as well. I'm not a big pvper, but I've sampled both classic wow and retail and at least with classic I was doing alright for somebody with no experience, but it felt like with retail I stand no chance of winning at all. Idk, maybe with retail there is just too much going on, and I definitely think there're too much button bloat.
Thanks Jordan Peterson
@@matrixcom69 ah yes, his lecture on classic vs retail pvp was one for the history books. I cried a little.
True. Also, if there is too much to learn at once, most people will just give up. On PVP you start in BGs, where you have 5 other players doing shit at the same time and mos tlikely you don't know what happened or what they did, while also learning what to do on the BG and general PVP strategy and how to play your class on PVP. Too much at once to process. On PVE you need to understand your own class and the dungeon itself. You don't need to worry about the other players unless you're high on M+.
@@soulsharts "Clean your hotbar!" - Jordan Grimmarstone
They just need to remove ridiculous time gated grinds for gear and tier sets and whatever stupid thing they decide to add and all problems will be solved. You`d have more fun builds, you would be able to equip gear for certain comp`s instead of insta lose, you would not care about precious rating as much, more people would play on top of being able to easily make alts etc etc
They should never have linked PVE and PVP (or at least PVE and Arena). Even back in Burning Crusade all the fun builds were nerfed to hell to fit arena. It was infuriating.
All they has to do was make separate pvp mods on spells...
This is why PVP in FFXIV is so good. All classes have a PVP mode with a specialized build, gear means nothing except cosmetics.. it's so good
they ruined it when they brought out "resilience" as a stat. Quite literally broke pve through being un-critable at one point lol
@@hyaku_my_shiki FF14 PvP was by far the most fun I have ever had playing MMO PvP.
@@hyaku_my_shikiliterally the first time I’ve ever heard this game mentioned in a PvP discussion and for nearly a decade people actively told you to avoid if you are looking for PvP.
There's a reason why some private PVP servers simply put you at max level and give you the best gear from the get-go.
How do I get into these
@@aleksabroad go to Google and look for wow full pvp servers
ya but thats like what, 6 hours of wow pvp? WoW pvp is just bad because mmorpgs are not about balanced gameplay.
@@aleksabroad if you want wotlk pvp try warmane blackrock
Project ascension has been the best pvp experience ever. They are constantly revolving around the basic elements of pvp only you can choose whatever talent or spell you want to build into your class
blizzard is horrible at handling competition for their games. nothing new here.
to be fair Starcraft and Warcraft had multiple races which played completely differently and Starcraft1 and 2 is still one of the best, balanced, competitive games ever made.
@@yazzzlet3549 Classic blizzard, sure. Retail blizzard, on the other hand...
@@tenrecc that's right
Blizzard is horrible.
Here, i fixed it for you.
just say ur over 30 old head
To that guy who was comparing new WoW players to new League players. bro, in league u hit ur skills they take damage, u get hit u take damage. In WoW PvP When I hit someone I dont even know whether i missed, whether im lagging and damage hasnt registered, whether dmg is absorbed by some shield or wtf is happening.
If your pvp isnt balanced seperate from the regular game you have made a grave mistake.
For all of guild wars 1 flaws, it seperated the skills. The skills were the same but their was a separate effect for pvp/pve skills.
FF14 also did the same change last expansion, the pvp experience is still not great due to netcode and nature of the game, but it’s a massive improvement, about 10-15 skills for each class and each skill has its place.
It sounds great on paper, but when you dive deeper you get a a dissonance. Why should something work on players differently than on mobs? There are ways to explain it in an RPG like with gear effects for example, but just straight up making it work in a different way is not satisfying in the end.
@@user-tv3hd1km4w ff14 always had separate skills for pvp, what are you talking about? They just revamped a little in previous expantion, but its pretty much the same
@@MartinWoad simply for the balance of the game?
PvP died for me around Mists when they made healers so ridiculously OP that a geared DPS player couldn't even make a dent in an ungeared healer. I always enjoyed playing random battlegrounds but that just utterly ruined the fun for me.
The funny thing is the solution to that is simple, and Priests already had a similar talent in the game early on. You get a stacking buff reducing the damage you take depending on how many targets are attacking you. Ta da! Now healers are balanced for everything from duels to 40 man bgs. Lol this isn't rocket science.
wym, MoP was Bis for pvp
@@dontneedtoknowmyname.6828lol mop was trash af, the worst state pvp was ever in.
I think GW2 had or has a feature where when you queued for a pvp match everyone had access to all stats and runes. You customized it and we to battle, all skill based. You had to learn your character, not farm for gear. Everyone on equal ground.
Still a thing
they even have some Skills split between PvE and PvP
Yeah, PvP in GW2 is standardized. Everyone has the same "item level" and relative power, it's moreso who has the best builds / higher skill.
@skmattso
Same with FFXIV. It has its own issues to be sure, but you always know you're not getting stomped because "lol gear"
Except Guild Wars 2 doesn't have CCs and the limited pool of skills makes it harder to outplay any player. Essentially if another player knows their damage rotation you wont have an advantage against them and vice versa.
Macros and button bloat are a MASSIVE problem. For some classes, like paladin, you have blessing you can use on 3 party frames, turning 4 buttons, (BoP, BoF, BoS, LoH,) into 12. For instances like rogue, you can use stance macros to turn backstab/ambush into the same button that takes no thought to upkeep. Can put tricks of the trade in the same button, set to a focus target or party frame, making what would be 4 button presses, (target tank, tricks, target enemy, ambush) into a single button, ambush, which auto targets the thing in front of you, and uses tricks on tank auto. High end of the game is making sure you're using the right macros and not even the buttons that are actually in the game.
play hunter and i have every keybind bought, + 7 modifiers and 7 extra toolbar slots too, majority are macros too.
To make asmons argument for him:
Wow pvp being unfair because of gear disparity in other games would not be tolerated. What if in league of legends you got to start out with one maxed item based on your rank, and new players got nothing. Thats gamebreaking at lvl 1, and snowballs into the rest of the match.
In wow pvp, that advantage is set in stone and will not change through the duration of the match. So basically, the opposing viewpoint is, go lose until you get gear to be competitive. Not get good, get gear. Thats bad design, which is what baldy is trying to emphasise.
But getting the best PvP gear is so easy in WoW currently. Do you have to farm a bit to get it? Sure, but you can farm it at any rating and once you have the gear, it is automatically the highest possible item lvl for PvP.
Gear difference was more of a problem back in previous expansions when your PvP item lvl was tied to your highest achieved rating. Since this is removed, all it takes is go in and farm a bit. People can literally lose all their rated matches and they will eventually still be able to get the best PvP gear.
M+ ruined WoW in general, not just PvP. The thing is, people don't play it because they love it, they play it because they have to. It will never change while Ion is in charge because it is his brainchild.
The thing is - without it there is not that much to do in the game. I remember times before Legion. 2 raid nights and basically afk for the rest of the week until reset. Paying 10 eur for that is just plain stupid.
If u dont enjoy m+ dosent mean people play it because they have to. Tbh its the only thing why im playing wow and raiding ofc. I dont really enjoy pvp but i dont hate it either lmao all of u in this comment section complaining that u cant play because "there are too many buttons to press or u need wa or addons" wich are a part of the game and everyone uses it. And talking about classic was better spaming 2 Skills and auto attacks until u level up and 4 buttons in end game content. All of u just sound like a bunch of old mans probally like 30-55y. Classic Andy's lmao
@@valentin9971 You 100% don't PvP
Many people don't PVP like the % 75 player base. Play something competitive like MOBA if you like PVP.
@@poorpriest4549And yet I remember actually being subbed to the game and playing because it wasn't an infinite grind with infinite difficulty levels. I could just have fun pugging heroics and showing up to a Normal raid night and still feel like I was making progress..
People say they want a challenge when really they just want a pub stomp and it's sad
That's what every open world advocate want, to gank unsuspecting people.
I'm one of the 40:60 players, Whitemane stayed that way for all the way through 2019 Classic release, until TBC launched.
I enjoyed the shit out of it. Me and the buddy both played druids(such shit in classic) and would go ROFLstomp level 60s at level 45. We'd deliberately go hang out in front of the horde Hinterlands base on the shore where they had nowhere to go to get out but the thin beach, and we'd annihilate everybody, level level 50.
2v3, 2v4, as druids lol. We used every single last little thing to our advantage. One time my buddy got chased by someone who about got him, he decided to go navy seal form and outrun this guy in the water, but this guy was relentless. He kept chasing for like 10 minutes up until this point. My friend goes down down down deep and of course this guy chases him down and drowns lmfao.
No people want to be the underdog, only issue 99.9% of people aren't capable of making come back as underdogs. Their spirit is broken or they really don't care about winning in a game meant for PVE not PVP. When classic wow was released in 2019 all the people thought they were going to be the next underdog and make insane pvp plays, yeah no its whoever had more people won.
Who cares about a challenge when the challenge is life time PvP players rerolling numerous repeat toons to avoid competition
Remember when they nerfed enh shaman mana regen, and NOT ONE person at the entire company actually looked at the implication, because it made enh shaman go immediately oom doing their basic rotation not even healing.
@@phandaal lmao
or when they removed MP/5 so paladins sucked due to no mana regen, or removed spirit so druids sucked because no mana regen, or removed tree form because whiny rogue crybabies were mad they couldn't 1shot/stunlock trees
I haven’t played retail pvp since MoP, I can almost guarantee you in 2024 you probably need dual keyboards for all the buttons required..
MoP was the best expansion imo
and multiple monitors to track buffs, cooldowns, major class abilities, etc.
only on some classes others only take a few buttons
@@kezzerz it was perfectly balanced, every class being overpowered to the max made it balanced
Depends on the class when it comes to necessary key binds. As far as addons, yeah sure I couldn’t play pro, but I can get glad with 1-2 addons and no weak auras no problem.
In GW2 you have 2 pvp modes: A stat matched mode where everything's balanced, and a world pvp where you use the gear you have.
Does WOW not have any mode where it's balanced?
but structured pvp in gw2 sucks because of the small player base, every game is against the same people and smurfs
@@rafael00kl So... It's like WOW?
There's reasons why it is the way that it is. A lot of those reasons are circular, and self fulfilling ofc. Heck: I'm not interested in playing it. You have to actually pay attention.
@@fallbranch wow amount of people >>>>> gw2 pvp community. You have 1k+ ppl in c2 wow with 2200+ raiting. And about 250 ppl in low gold elo in gw2 with 15-20 games))0
Every MMO with balanced modes have garbage PvP. Why play a grinding MMORPG if your gear doesn't influence your power? Anyone would have a much better time spending on games like League of Legends where you don't need to grind anything and you just get tossed into PvP. Makes no sense to have balance PvP in MMORPGs, no wonder games like FF14 have PvP modes as a joke.
@@alexanderfiedorov925 I mean I agree, but idk why having your gear would make it any better. It just meast you can't participate till you're bis.
I think it's just weird people who are into it.
1:15 Gw2 is handling player skills in PvP (and World vs World) differently, cds/damage output are not the same as PvE. Also the PvP gear is free; you don't need high-level gear, the game mode provides it for you so there are no imbalances for that matter. Also the flexibility of builds is enormous so PvE builds do not work in PvP/WvW and vice versa. Problem solved.
PS. A reminder, 'always' and 'never' are absolute words, most of the times are not valid.
People will never understand this coz GW2 pvp requires skill and you cant out gear you're opponent same with wvw and coordination and comp...
GW2 PvP is the reason I still play the game. It is just sooooooo damn good. Countless types of builds & it's pure skill. People don't understand hoe damn good GW2 pvp is unless they actually play it.
True @@Jacob-ec9og
gw2 combat takes a fucking age to kill someone though, realistically most people dont care about balanced gameplay they jsut want to have fun. Dota and elague are insanely imbalanced but they are played a lot
@rickroll9705 Bro do you even play the game ? Shure if your fighting in cele vs a minstreal heler you wont be able to kill each other but try doing that to a zerker willbender and see what happens... One of you will melt in seconds...
Why PvP is so bad is because in 20 years, they haven't been able to come up with any complex systems other than CC.
Said it back then, will say again now. Gear needs to be equalized, get rid of conquest gear and just have honor. The stats can stay but the ilvl difference needs to go.
Keep conquest points but have one gear with upgrade levels with conquest being needed for like the last 3 levels or something
When was the last time you played wow? 8years ago?
Will never happen, the Nature of Mmorpgs is of people having higher level, stats than you, better gear with better stats, thats what makes world pvp interesting.
Even so, even if your against a higher level guy with better gear, you can still kill them if your better.
@@GloomGenetics it has already happened in legion lol but go off
not if they just do too much damage
Ffxiv does this perfectly:
1) Everyone is normalized; everyone goes in with the same stats per character
2) Abilities are completely redesigned for pvp; they're tuned completely separately
1.) FFXIV pvp is not as good as WoW's but the modes are.
2.) Abilities in PvP should be redesigned but not completely be as far off as PvE counterpart
Lost ark
Also nobody plays FF14 pvp so there's that.
@Ephemeral96 it's only not as good as WoW, because WoW feels better to play. The inherent latency built into FFXIV just makes button pressing feel worse.
If FFXIV had the same feel and responsiveness as WoW, FFXIV PvP would be one of the better ones in an MMO that doesn't focus on PvP.
FFXIV is by far the worst pvp experience of all MMOS, its soo bad tarisland pvp wrecks ffxiv lol. That might be breaking news but when people make a warrior with a giant sword of doom they dont want all the cool abilities they like to use to isntantly become another thing entirely for the sake fo balance, which nobody in fact cares.
Blizzard lost the good faith of competitive PvPers when they sold off their e-sports casting staff. Anyone left isn't looking at it right.
PVP and PVE need to be totally separated. Said this for 20 years.
New talent trees
New abilities
New gearing system
Separate them entirely.
100% agree. PVP is a cancer. PvE is what 90%+ of what people are playing, PVE to level. PVE to raid. PVE to farm crafting stuff... nerfing for PVP balance ruins games. Lots of asian games have abilities do a whole different effect when used against players, and that helps.
World pvp made classic wow way more fun tho imo. The world felt alive with other people which also made it dangerous. Sadly that feeling is long gone with retail.
That's how it works right now, gearing system is way easier, PVP talents, different builds for PVP, etc.
Battlegrounds aren't too hard, people are just too stupid. It has been like that with every BG. They don't understand base priorities like flag > kill.
They also don't understand that if the enemy team just completely stomped them at the start and are just sitting in mid, that no one is going to sneak a flag by them. The guy in gy screaming GUYS GET THE FLAG is the kind of person who captcha would prevent from logging into WoW
Flag > kill? Can't you see that Guardian Druid sitting there on the road all juicy?!
It's amazing how after all these years WoW still doesn't have 2 versions of the same skills: one for PvP and one for PvE. This was done back in GW1 in 2005 so there's absolutely no excuse for it not to be a thing in WoW.
Would also make the abilities way easier to balance since Blizzard wouldn't have to be afraid of any changes made directly for PvE to have big changes in PvP (they don't care already)
I stopped playing wow a long time ago. News like this will help to always keeps me away. Not even nostalgia can bring me back anymore.
Classic versions of the game has made me come back from time to time.
The worst part about WoW's PVP state is that people keep talking about balancing issues when the CORE issue is the rampant cheating. It's a crazy rabbithole to go down. But wow's mechanics are dated. There are so many undetectable auto-clickers outside the "pro" scene. Any regular player that tries to PVP will hit that brick wall eventually. The cheating is rampant and nobody is talking about it.
are there videos showing that ?
if yes pls link here
I saw the title and instantly said to myself: "Too many buttons."
Tons of abilities, talents, focus, target1, target 2, enemy healer macros...
My favourite PvP in WoW were those smaller scuffles when leveling in stranglethorn or hellfire peninsula. But players usually don't start open world PvP without a noticeable level advantage 😢
What is worse than max level rogues farming low levels is the twinks with full gears enchanted with professions camping.
@@gasperer And that's exactly why my main is always parked in my alts quest zones :p
Remember one of my favorite memories when vanilla classic dropped. Went into stranglethorn at level 30, began to cross the bridge the same time as an orc warrior. I was a paladin. We stared each other down a bit, bowed and began our duel. And it was a grand time of 2 idiots trying to beat each other before a priest came along, feared and smite spammed him dead after I tried to tell him to stop.
While it was a fun short interaction, it was a fun time knowing that another player was respectful enough to duel a player out in the world 1 on 1.
Never had it happen again in my time sadly.
For me... if I'm a warrior and catch a Mage. That should be lights out for the mage.
the thing is.. you don't catch mages lol (if hes good)
@@_bm1tv exactly
The real problem is the second wizard free casting while you chase the mage for 2 minutes then when you finally catch him his cooldowns reset
even in mmos with pure symmetrical skill based pvp there are hardly any players
The end is near, Asmon still hasn't gone bald.
Or cleaned his house.
He thinks 10% of the playerbase plays arena? 🤣 More like 2%!
😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉 actually sir asmon dont think. He used to think, but now, he just makes content.
@@onlywrongaexthetics6181 touche
Maybe, but I suspect he says 10 because it is a round number that makes math fast and easy to understand for the basic listener.
Yup it’s basic rounding @@Desu-Desu-Chan-San
@@Desu-Desu-Chan-San you know you can easily round it to 5% just like that..
PVP been an afterthought in WOW for years. Like if you still expect to get actual development with focus on PvP first and foremost, this isn't the game for you since quiet some time.
I'm not huge into PVP but honestly I LOVE the idea of Horde vs Alliance, but also yeah PVP has always been super sweaty and broken so while the idea seemed compelling to me, I didn't end up enjoying it because I had to be sweaty as well.
Haven't played WoW in any form what so ever, but when I see the amount of buttons on screen in-game, I can only compare it to the control center of a nuclear power plant.
I stopped PVPing the second it became a fight in slow-mo the entire time due to every class having 10 stuns and 20 slows.
100%
World of CC
When did it become that? Vanilla, tbc, wotlk, cata all have more CC than retail does lol
@@hondaricer8528 These guys are clueless man, don't even bother dismantling their incoherent "arguments". They don't even know what they're saying.
Completely missed the point of the video lol. We need CC not aoe
People think they love the challenge of imbalance until they can't go anywhere without 30 gankers following them.
They can go the ff route where an ability will do max damage to 1 target and fall off on others. Especially when the ability isnt specifically aoe
Also how skills in pvp are not 1:1 compared to their pve counterparts. Some skills are actually completely unrecognizable. Also gear/ level doesn't mean jack shit in pvp
And pls tell me where is FF pvp? unexistant nah thanks we keep what we have in wow pvp you stick to your dead pvp in FF
@@user36003 True. FF pvp is a joke
@user36003 I wasn't talking about pvp in ff I was talking about how they do skills in general. Stay 1500. Since you can't read.
@@Vielle-Lothaire and how is "How they do skills in general" can do anything for WoW pvp if their PvP is truly unexistant? just stop it no one wants that in pvp just PvE boys who close to never pvped in their life
I just dipped my toes in PvP a few weeks ago and yeah, I have no idea what is being thrown at me 50% of the time. All the buffs on top of it. So many buttons, etc. it gets overwhelming.
Imagine this, you queue into a solo shuffle match as a frost dk for example or any of the other shit specs cause you think it might be fun.
After 30-60 mins of queue time you get a match.
You see the lobby and it is 3-4 meta specs who basically turn the game into an anime, and you are the side character.
Weird takes me 2-5 mins s to get a pop for solo shuffle
queues arent that bad and frost dk is fine to climb, its just not a sit there and zerg someone down spec anymore
@@hellowrld5234 even during peak hours it would take minimum 10 mins for queue at this point of the season.
And if you think frost is fine to climb, i would ask that you link me your rating thro any website that tracks it.
For context, you can get roughly 400-500 more rating by just switching to unholy.
@@lichblaze1277 if dks are 2800 as frost then its a you problem, i like how you backpedaled from your 30-60 min. i dont play frost but im getting them in my 2.4 lobbies.
@@hellowrld5234 read the part where i mentioned solo shuffle, not 3s.
I didnt backpedal, the 30-60 min queues are still an issue ever since season 2. But you can get some 10 min queues during peak hours.
You didnt link your frost dk solo shuffle rating to back up your claim that they are fine. If you dont play the spec, then I am not interested in what you have to say.
There needs to be a new revamp to WoW PvP. There needs to be a separate talent tree with less choices and the amount of spells needs to get squished down when inside an arena and BG. PVE and PVP need to be two separate entities.
They won't invest any developments time into doing this, looking how niche PvP is
I do gotta say, mad respect to windhawks for being willing to show asmon how to find his character and having the guts to let asmon basically put him on blast for his take. I would have roached out of that situation and taken asmon not being able to find his as a win, even if I were as good as windhawks. This guy had a freaking spine.
Just saw his "please don't ban me" which made me laugh but hey, still a better spine than I would have had.
@@misternoodle1236 On my end, I just find it sad that he was in danger of being banned in the first place. Asmon can be a real ass about anyone disagreeing with him.
The root of all their problems is the same, instead of making "WoW, the greastest MMO of all time!" they're making "WoW, new power grind to keep you busy, daily quests to keep you logging in, mythic dungeons for cheap endless content, cash shop!"
This is actually why I like MMOs with horizontal progression more. GW2 is one example of this, but I don't think it takes it quite far enough.
What I mean with that is imagine that at end-game you have multiple sets of armours and weapons that are more than just stat sticks, but actually have interesting effects that are good for certain and also some very niche and strangle builds that can all excel in their own way and basically creates a bit of a sandbox for PvP.
Planetside 2 is a perfect example of this. Your starting weapon is basically the best one. Everything else you unlock is either a sidegrade or better in a very specific niche.
@@fanis1414 I didn't think of Planetside 2 immediately, but now that you mention it that game is a lot like what I describe.
I personally mostly play ambush jetpack with shotguns lol.
Asmon, the reason why some of us like PvP in WoW is very simple - there is no other third person tab target game out there. The day a company makes a game like WoW arena is the day we won't need WoW PvP. Other competitive eSports are great, but they are totally different when it comes to gameplay so that's the issue.
A group tried to do that with Arena of Kings, and it was legitimately very fun, but no one played it.
@@serialdrunkdriver I didn't even know that game existed. I looked through some videos, and the idea is good, but it needs more polish and marketing. I think it's to soon to say that there isn't a market for this type of game. You could also expand it and add other "for fun" modes like battlegrounds, etc.
@@crazyforcs Damn you missed out unfortunately. It was an extremely small-scale project that peaked in community attention around January 2022, it was definitely rough, and therefore hard to market, but they really nailed down the feeling of wow arena as perfectly as one could expect. all the classes actually felt like their respective counterparts in WoW. i was so impressed by that shit.
Tbf asmon isn’t good at PVP…… in any game. He’s a PVE guy so when he says 2:00 ”I don’t understand what’s going on and I’ve been playing for 10 years” buddie you been playing PVE FOR 10 years and getting powned in PVP for 10 as well
But him being shit doesn't make a single argument of his weaker
And? You think a brand new player will fair any better? lol
@@lukapaunovic7943 It does though, if he wasn't so bad at pvp in general his arguments would hold much more weight. Anyone who thinks moba's are a better alternative for MMO pvpers is simply out of touch with said audience.
1:35 And then there's gw2 that separates skill scaling & functionality between pvp and pve permitting great gameplay in both game modes.
You already know the truth: if you want to do PvP, for fun or professionally, you have to play League of Legends or an FPS.
It's been like this for years now.
The fact that Blizzard doesn't care about PvP should be enough for you ("you" = PvP players in World of Warcraft).
And if you think that the problems only exist for PvP you are thinking wrong.
Remember when Blizzard said they wouldn't add an interrupt for the Holy Priest because "It would be too strong in PvP"?
So what? Why can't you add it JUST for PvE?
And why can't you increase Single Target damage for Mage JUST for PvP?
The problem is for the entire game but you continue to play it and pay monthly.
So please...shut up.
The solution for wow pvp is on the table since original cata came out , its called arena tournament. Basicly make pvp server where you can buy endgame gear from pushing rating as it is on the private servers then all pvp players wont need to grind raids and they can just smash arena , simple as that.
The main reason a PVP MMO like The Elder Scrolls Online works is that
1. Base stats and protections are nerfed/manipulated depending on the game modes you are in. Making it separate from the base PVE experience.
2. There are drops and progression items that PVP provides that can be used for PVE and PVP, but they are all tradeable and accessible to non pvpers through the in game market
3. And the biggest reason imo is that there are so many different viable builds that a player can use from base game sets to the latest expansion, it is very possible to remain competitive. Even with the newest expansion, with all of the extra versatile skills it brings, a base game player can remain competitive and even excel in each different form of PVP.
WoW and most traditional MMOs don't have any of this.
Lol
@shrekxfiona8659
Provide appropriate comments or remove yourself at once from the thread.
Blizzard doesnt care about them but still they get the best looking mounts in the game each season and the best looking gear sets that normal regular players (90%) have no way of obtaining.
Blizzard has never been able to balance a PvP game of theirs
It's pretty balance right now?
Not sure how people don't understand Class advantages are overwhelming and it kills the fun for people. DH are insane in pvp. There are *exceptions* based on players, but more often than not, it's the case.
War mode needs to go. Bring back the old Honor system and remove Global flight/dragonflight/anything that could serve as a pussy way out of the MMO world. This is the only way forward to fix this dead game. No content, no game mode, talent system, class, AINT NO NOTHING else that can save this game!
playing pvp in cata lately has been a huge eye re-opener for me of what wow could be like.
if you need a special mouse to play the game its doomed. remove 20 buttons from every class, pressing a bunch of binds doesnt = skill, add skill remove buttons
Asmon, I respectfully disagree with your perspective on PvP in WoW. I started playing WoW primarily for the PvP aspect, and the ability to customize my character, collect mounts, and explore the world was incredibly appealing. Some of the best times of my life were spent playing WoW with my cousin when we were beginners.
I still vividly remember our world PvP battles, like the time we ambushed a level 25 priest while we were both level 20. He defeated us so thoroughly that we ended up running for our lives, splitting up, and getting caught in separate one-on-one fights. Or the time we found a powerful monk on a cliff in the mountains and fought him 2 vs. 1 for 15 minutes before finally defeating him. We would often team up in battlegrounds and arenas, grinding together and reveling in world PvP in Stranglethorn Vale. Those moments were unforgettable, and I practically lived in Stranglethorn Vale, where I defeated thousands of Horde players (whom I despised). I even led a guild that regularly attacked Orgrimmar, creating massive battles between the Alliance and Horde in the Stranglethorn Vale arena.
Now, the world feels empty, and the item level system is strange and imbalanced. They have ruined many aspects of the game. I wish they would revamp WoW entirely, introducing rewards for world PvP, balanced armor ranks similar to League of Legends for the arena, 1 vs. 1 arena matches, and new battleground maps with more imaginative objectives than just conquering flags. There are so many potential fun and engaging modes that could be added.
If I had the power to redesign WoW, it would be the best game ever made.
People will endure unfair PvP if they think they will have the unfair advantage at some point. People don't quit because it's unfair. They quit because they don't see a path to being powerful themselves. It's not a fundamental issue, it's a design issue.
Arenas killed wow pvp. The only forms of pvp should have been battlegrounds, world pvp and 1v1 duels. Arenas added unnecessary level of competitiveness, complexity and balance issues.
Agreed. At least with BGs and world PvP skirmishes the unfairness could be reduced by having strength in numbers and abusing other mechanics such as gliding, walking on water, etc. to get a tactical advantage. Even if you were undergeared you still contributed by assisting geared players and dealing with objectives if necessary. Chaotic, but fun nonetheless.
Arenas on the other hand expect things to be a strict PvP format, but with a more "balanced" and "fair" playing field. Though, that has never been achieved ever. Yet the time and effort Blizzard have put into fixing an unfixable game mode has made the game worse. I had way more fun doing world PvP and ranked BGs than I have ever had stepping into those cursed Arenas.
Wow pvp was peak fun before arenas were introduced.
it is what someone would say who is just complete trash in arena and its obviously too complex for you.
@@Legabis No. It simply isn't fun. I got to 2.2k Rated before on Warrior with healer. It's not fun.
what suprise me is they never tryed making a moba that plays like wow pvp without being linked to the pve game so it can get proper balancing and everything
as long as it is a mmorpg with pvp they keep deleteing their old class for new class design every expansion wich is wierd in pvp aswell it make more sense if nobody played the class...
but getting into pvp in a mmorpg like wow is pretty much wich expansion made the class feel fun to play in both pvp and pve if it only feels fun in pve and not in pvp then whats the point of the pvp
and pvp is why we dont get alot new classes instead reinvent the old one people enjoyed and lose every expansion
bobby when he was ceo failed to see a potential in a moba separeted pvp game based on wow with visual microtransaction
He always approaches wow pvp and all pvp as a esport thing. The majority of ppl dont play games cuz its a esport pvp game they play pvp games because their friends play it.
I would agree with you when it comes to battlegrounds pvp, but balance is very important for arena even at semi-casual/casual levels.
Buddy whose friends are playing wow arena in 2024, the only ones left is like 50 nolifers who want to be pros or youtubers
@lukapaunovic7943 no, it's the "nolifers" that complain about wow pvp.
MoP was great example of when the internet started impacting the game. Only 5% of the players actually knew how to play their class in pvp. Now those "Meta" spec's are available to 100% of the players. The same player that would get one shot knows how to win a 1v3 because of the internet. (Yes certain classes could easily 1v3 in MoP)
You made misstake in title of Video, u added "pvp", remove that word and itz perfect title
We've been saying this since 2008. Balance pvp separately from pve. Thats it. Easy day. No class suffers in pve because of pvp balance
because wow is a game where your character gets better, not you as a player
As a new player I love PvP rn I’m currently 2200 duelist and I went against smurfs all the time back when I first started. Every game in existence has Smurf players I just learned to get good. To me pve is kinda boring doing the same dungeons and same raids over and over again, in PvP it’s a different experience every time
And pve is extremely easy as well, as long as u get the mechanics of a dungeon/raid and your geared then you are good, idk I just don’t see the hype
This is exactly why wow needs to do a different system that does not use PVE abilities. Just create an entire new system like ff14 does that the abilities act differently than they do in PVE. Just separate the 2 completely.
why would wow makes it pvo horrendously bad like ffxiv, which is far less played? lol
@@rickroll9705 a lot of people play ff14 pvp. It just has its own seperate system. The abilities and bars are all different. Totally independent of the main game. Why wouldn’t they do this? You can balance pvp and pve seperately and could even add in unique gameplay to pvp that isn’t there now…
@@rickroll9705 FF PvP was switched up and a lot more people play it now. That said, your PvE and PvP kits are completely different, it auto swaps your skills to your PvP ones when you join a match. Your PvP kit is smaller and has it's own flair per class, your gear is normalized, your level and HP is normalized as well.
Or you can just stick with WoW unga bunga brain gameplay where whoever has no-lifed the game has better gear and stats.
The big mistake was trying to brute force "competetive gaming" into a fn mmorpg. PvP in WoW should have remained BGs and open world. Arenas were a huge mistake as it completely changes how you need to balance the game.
I remember I had lots of fun during WoD arena seasons. Imo -- best pvp ever was in WoW.
WoD season 1 was crazy ❤😢
Yeah, it's easy to say that it's better to play other game, but there is literally no other pvp game like wow.
i wounder if making a standalone version for arena with it's own balancing, tweaks and generic gear would (while not super popular) actually make it "e-sports viable" giving it a shot at actually growing into something that isn't completely irrelevant. your characters, transmogs, mounts, pets ect. ect. carrying over both ways (with some nice looking pvp cosmetics to earn thru performance)
standalone 1-5man roguelike and standalone competitive pvp. and when i say standalone i don't necessarily mean a standalone game launched more like along the lines of how timewalking characters work.
I said it once, I'll say it again. Asmon's opinion and take on PVP is completely and utterly invalid because he simply hasn't played it enough to be able to have a viable opinion on it. "ti's not fun" PVP has always been you getting shit stomped until you do the shitstomping. That's every MMO PVP ever, except for GW2 that normalizes your gear and weapons while allowing you to pick secondary stats and effects.
Finaly some 1 said it .. When Venruki or Raiku even Xaryu say somehing about pvp i take them srly. But Asmongold... Never ever was a pvp-er spams 1-2 as war and dies ... Wtf should i do.. comon he should do what he does best make twich kids happy...
his opinion on anything wow related should be invalid bro hasnt played for wow seriously for more than 3+ years now he cant even clear normal cata raids and complains they are too hard lmao he is nothing more than a react streamer rn.
and bro literally said BGs are hard to understand? Like WTF is hard to understand about them they all have most 1-3 objectives to do that anyone with 5 IQ can understand there is nothing complex about them
Ya retail pvp is in shambles but I will say Cata PVP feels amazing right now, its just gotten worse over the years though unfortunately ;(
This topic is as old as WoW itself. If i remember correctly PvP in WoW was a afterthought, not ment in the base game at all People were just angry that they could not attack each other ( the ork vs human) so they added that stuff in to the game. WoW in its core base was suppose to be a PvE game.
To fix or tweak PvP as the game is now i think you would have to design a PvP skill tree ( basically a mirror image of the existing skill trees just with tweaks for single targets, resistance etc.) and make it avaible ONLY in PvP zones ( arena/ battle grounds/ pvp servers in the world etc. ) and when you have it on you cant do dungeons/raids or change in to them mid dungeon/raid.
Even in niche PvP MMO's most people still PvE. Eve Online is considered one of the biggest PvP MMO's and thier devs circa 2013 said that over 70% of thier player base doesn't actively engage in PvP or go places where PvP may happen.
The whole conversation about asymetric matchups. Imagine you queue into 1v1 PvP. Classic Mage vs Classic Warrior every time. You're the warrior. How long till you quit?
Original WoW PvP was great as it was. Classic servers are more fun than retail. SOD is more fun than retail, even with the new additions and imbalances. SOD just needs time to find balance. Every expansion of WoW progressively got worse. People just used arena rating and the progression of arena settings to pretend like it was better. Less fun is never better.
it's also annoying being a caster in pvp when every interrupt stops you from casting. like being a fire mage and being fire locked every time you cast. or, having to wait till max lvl to do certain things like brawls, as soon as you hit max lvl, you're going into bgs against a fully kitted out rated bg practice team that just steam rolls you. ya, some people use that to drive them to try harder to get geared and constantly que for randoms, but like you said, it's boring as all hell when you spend the majority of the bg either dead, running back to the fight, or cc'd/spell locked. i stopped pvping about half way thru pandaland cause it just wasn't fun anymore and i'll never pvp again. every expansion i try a few bg's just to see, and every time, i'm reminded that it's not cata anymore and i just suck at it lol i have enough stress in my life, don't need pvp to add to it 😂
Tried to arena in shadowlands first week arenas dropped. Got to 1200 rating in 3s before i hit the access wall. Nobody would team with me as i had no prior expansion arena experience. So maybe more would care about pvp if the community let new players learn to pvp. Same fpr mythic plus. My ret pally had 5 of 7 almost fully upgraded faction armor and my torghast bis legendary unlocked didnt matter. I couldnt do anything more than a plus 2 or 3.
The thing is that no one plays modes like these for fun, its just for farming achievs, titles and gear. People simply rush those things to get the best things possible as fast as possible and be done with it, if you try to do these activities mid expansion or do slowly is just asking to have a bad time. Honestly, if you are doing these thing mid expansion its better to just farm gold and pay for boosts, its much faster. Group activities pugging on wow sucks because the playerbase sucks, the game is fine as it is.
On cata classic, it took me one week to farm honor gear as horde, and it took me one day as alliance, both pugging. The amount of times i was matched against premades as horde was insane, i was burned out already on the first day. I took 12 losses yesterday, for example, before i won one bg, it was the worst experience i ever had on wow. I feel like wow pvp nowadays is just the same people that farm on premades really early on launch and just keep stomping people all day long on random bgs and have been doing this for years.
PvP in WoW was a joke when I played it. Paladin class ruined everything.
This started when resilience was added
My biggest problems is the buttons and status' etc to know what's going on in game. That's why I like so vanilla so much but it's even too much there sometimes. LoL is a great example. Very minimal buttons wise.
Dark Age of Camelot in it's peak had world pvp down. PVP can be good in an MMO and still is in DAOC but the game is so old that hardly anybody plays it. If somebody could just recreate the things that made DAOC good back in the day on a modern engine, it would be a masterpiece. The MMO PVP Andy's would finally have a home again.
New World could have been our PVP MMO but they decided to make it a half baked PvE Mmo with no real reason to play it.
Still hurts me till today 😢
That's crazy how accurate you are, I quit in MOP for MOBAs cause PvP was just absurd, especially healing.
PVP in GUILD WARS 2 is Balanced, Superior and NOT a SIDE GAME. You can also level from ZERO to HERO in just PVP or WVW without even touching PVE. It's challenging and fun and constantly gives rank rewards 24/7. Oh, and its fun AF!
Not even Pvpers care about everything pvp related they only care about arenas.
PvPers are the top 1% of MMO players. Carnivore vs Grass eaters
Yep I realized that too. As a player who mostly played pvp since tbc and got at least 1900+ on every expansion (not an expert), dragonflight is a pain in that sense, also one thing to add is the micro cc, every time you are getting rooted, stunned and from where?? Its not even a second of cc but still, you can't move. For me, the best pvp experience I had was in lich king then tbc, where one wrong counterspell for example you are doomed. Well, its not the same game anymore, I quite a while ago both retail and when cata released and enjoying a bit more casual games.
What he said about majority of ppl in an MMO not doing PvP says a lot about the decline into this genre's popularity, i've been an MMO enthusiast since 2002, and for a decade 80% of the players from the most popular games (except WoW maybe) were there for PvP. And i still bring this approach into every MMO i play, i see no reason to play one if it's not to progress your character/gear to be unstoppable at PvP.
My best WoW memories were all PvP based, that was such a core part of the game when I played it.
Dark Age of Camelot mastered asymmetrical PVP. The PVE is lacking, but the PVP is stellar.
It was never good since vanilla. The open world giant battles in vanilla were amazing.
Haha, this is what I have been saying, why has every spell and talent got an amplifier of its own?
Bro had a seizure at 14:40
This expansion is the most balanced pvp has ever been in terms of viable classes. The reason people dont like PvP is they arent used to it, theres alot of things to look out for, track and watch while you are doing as much damage as possible. if you go in and try to do your PvE damage rotation without learning other classes abilities, you will obviously not get very high. The majority of players will never get to gladiator, the same as most players will never clear 9/9 mythic.
Get base, base give points. Cap flag, flag give points. BGs are complex indeed.
People gonna beat that dead horse until the bones are dust while still expecting it to come back alive.
To this day. Old dragonest still one of the best pvp mmo i played.
Grand marshall, s1,2, etc arena grand master. Also rated bg GM, Baneful here. Just to break down my qualifications. Yes, i agree with the Aoe, but Az's take about the buttons is the MAIN reason.
I stopped playing for a few expos, came back for dragonflight. It's insanely hard now to keep up with the keybinds.
I played a hunter and priest, came back and played a DK. I think my pvp dps rotation was somewhere around 22 key binds. If you didnt keep up with every season of arena, it's impossible to get back into it now.
Vanilla hunter was something like 8 binds. You had to know when to use each bind, then there was 5ish more situational binds (like quick switch to track hidden). Compared to my MAIN dps rotation of 20+ now on my dk, plus 10 more situational.
It's insanely hard now.
Arena grand master haven’t seen that title before
@@MrMattyb87 vanilla achievement
@@TheAdamSell yea was being a troll its not grand lame joke
@MrMattyb87 I gotcha, lol. I didn't log in to check the exact title. But you get the point. I was a high end pvper, and now it's ridiculous. If you didn't change keystrokes every patch to keep up, it's impossible to catch up now. I had a 2400 season 1, now it's just too intensive
@@TheAdamSell yea i am the same i do arenas now its all about AoE doesnt take skill anymore tbh
Im curious about your rank in pvp asmon ....