Battery Charging Methods
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- In this lesson we'll learn about different lead acid battery charging methods. We'll discuss single stage constant current charging, trickle charging, multi-stage constant current charging, constant voltage charging, the modified constant voltage or fast charging method, float voltage, gassing voltage, charge efficiency, and the equalization process.
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Excellent! This video just clear the grey area I have had on charger operation an the most appropriated method for lead acid battery charging. Thank you Jim.
The best video to get acquainted with Battery Charging process
Best explanation for battery charger ever!!! thanks.
This must be the most professional and clear explanation i have ever encountered. Well done sir.
I bet he didnt cover how a car battery can be fast charged with 100s of amps but these never get damage
Awesome lecture. yeah building things up is hard then wrecking it. reason why I watched your video
Very clear explanation with Rocks Love it ! Thank you !
I’m an auto electrician and understand wiring , electricity very well and use to explain electricity to customers using plumbing , pipes and water flowing or struggling to flow it works ! - all about the quality of the connections and how it’s flowing through thin or thick pipes for different uses .. But understanding battery charging so much better now with this vision ! Really appreciate it thank you .
As an auto electrician here are 2 questions, 1)what current does the alternator charge the battery at? 2)have you ever come across or hear of a car battery catching fire from been charged too quickly?
Just great. Learnt so much. Thank you teacher.
Wow the bored computer case study really put things into perspective!
beautiful, thank you.
very very informative !
Jim Pytel, WHY DON'T YOU WRITE A BOOK??? Seriously? Your background and knowledge is outstanding! It would be much harder for thieves to steal your hard work and efforts. In today's society nothing is appreciated and everything is expected. Pay attention to those offended by my comment. They are the one's probably guilty.
Nice graphs Jim.
Thank you This is amazing
Great presentation Thank You
Very very enjoyable
Brilliant video.Many thanks.
really helpfull!
Perfect lesson. Thank you.
Perfect.
Great Information! What is your opinion on Delta-Q Chargers? I haven't been able to find any white papers so I'm uncertain if they are multistage or modified - although I'm leaning that it's a modified algorithm. Also which bucket of rocks would the modified be? The first bucket left of the sand bucket?
Sorry no experience with Delta Q chargers. Most modern chargers use a variation of the modified constant voltage method. Honestly I think the the modified constant voltage method would be more like the 2nd bucket from the left at 5:30 (ie: bulk phase - large rocks, absorption - medium rocks, float - sand).
Golden idea
excellent presentation Klyde BSEE
so far the most unboring >30 min presentation.. Genius work!
Thank u sir......
Just wow.
i just cant describe how much this video was usefull to me, just amazing, i had some wrong ideas and they were well adressed by you. there is one thing i would like to know: : if i want to charge four 12v 5Ah batteries in parallel, should i treat them as one big 12v 20Ah battery ? thanks
Assuming the four 12V 5Ah batteries are from the exact same manufacturer and the exact same age you theoretically could treat this combo as a single 12V 20Ah battery. This being said I'd still incorporate diodes to prevent inadvertent discharge of 3 good batteries into 1 that may be having some problems. Hoping to return to battery chargers and battery banks in later lectures.
thank you sir
I work with lots of different battery chemistries, does this lecture cover batteries other then lead acid wet /gel cells?
Unfortunately no this lecture restricts its analysis to lead acid batteries. I hope to return to this topic at a later date and discuss Li batteries in the level of detail they deserve.
great video. but can u help me understand when u say in the beginning that a 10 ampere surge cjarging the empty battery might damage it? in a car the alternator charges the battery at around 100 amps, or am I missing something here?
SLI (starting lights and ignition) batteries are designed to handle massive surges of current, in and out. Deep cycle batteries, not so much.
Not sure if this is answers your question, but alternator can out out 100 amps, (if rated at that) but much of that goes to running accessories, not charging the battery. Your accessories run off the alternator, not the battery. In basic terms, the battery is to just start the vehicle.
Obviously the used charging method is not battery dependent but all methods may be applied to all lead acid AGM batteries? Or then, which structural feature of the battery makes that which method to apply? We have currently a senior scooter having four 12V20Ah batteries. In those the charging method (and charging control system, too) is 3 step method according to the specifications of the battery. However, now we are going to replace those by new ones which have otherwise the same specifications except charging method which is constant voltage charge method (i.e. not "3 step"). Can you see any problem in this kind of replacing?
Hi, with a CC-CV charger for a lead acid battery, once the gassing voltage is reached, the battery controller automatically reduces current over time with a feedback loop to keep the voltage constant?
+1994fishcake I like to explain constant voltage mode like this ... imagine two series opposing voltage sources with a resistor in between. If there is a large differential between the sources the current will be large, however, as the smaller source increases in magnitude (ie: a battery's state of charge increases) the differential between the sources gets smaller and current progressively decreases.
So the slope isn't determined by a controller then?
+1994fishcake That would require a feedback mechanism. For this simple method we're assuming the constant voltage mode is just a fixed value.
Very nice explanation but something is missing. I am connected to battery charging for years. I found only constant current method useful because every method fails after one and half year. Battery becomes weak and every method fails to bring the battery to full charge state and as a result charging will not cut off and battery water will dry out consequently battery will die. Only constant current method works and brings the weak battery to full state and battery life normally becomes double.
Very good
Quite a handful of explaining but then again, I've been thinking all these charging stages with variable voltage n current based on states n monitoring then how about CAR BATTERY CHARGING thru alternator, stop n go, engine starting thru out the day, then how the alternator charging will effect battery life, and how (i think) car's simple battery mgmt archiving these charging params?
Charging a battery via an alternator is done a little more crudely than if done on a bench charger. Alternators charge by a constant voltage variable amperage method. The amount of amperage supplied is always the maximum charge a battery will adsorb for any point in its charge phase, up to the maximum output ability of the charging system, plus any amperage needed to run accessories of the vehicle.
So, if you start a car there is a huge draw on the battery to turn the engine over followed by a huge surge of current at a constant voltage to refill the battery at the maximum adsorption rate of the battery. On some cars you will notice the alternator belt squeaks or chirps when a car is first started and slowly quietens down. This is a result of the alternator being worked its hardest immediately after the vehicle is started and as the load on the charging system becomes less there is less strain on the alternator belt and it becomes less likely to slip or make noises.
Ideally the only time the battery on a vehicle is being worked is for starting or running accessories with the engine not running. Any other time the alternator is supplying all the electrical power needed to keep accessories running and the battery is sitting there in circuit acting as a fully charged capacitor.
Alternators output regulated voltage through the entire operation speed of the engine and the available current output will be 70% or more from idle speed quickly ramping to 100% of alternator rated output if needed throughout the entire engine operating RPM range as the available electrical loads dictate.
Hello Jim, i have a question, i have a 12V 7.3AH valve regulated lead acid battery. I have a "Automatic (Smart) Charger" , the brand and model is: "Waeco W2000" in the manual i can read it can charge up to 20A (MAX) can i charge this battery with this charger? Does the charger adapt the amperage to the battery? Great channel, i'm subscribed!
I'm not familiar with that particular brand of charger, however, the more pertinent question is whether the battery can handle what the charger in question can put out if it isn't current limited. I'd recommend you look up the maximum permissible charge rate for the particular battery. This is often expressed as a function of capacity (example: max charge rate of C/5 would be 4A for a 20Ah battery.)
This battery does not have a manual, so i don't know that.. So smart chargers do not adapt the amperage to what the battery needs for charging? Because in the manual they say it can charge up to 20A max but there is no minimum indicated.. This is a industrial automotive charger, it also has a button to switch the display to voltage or amperage..
Like I said, I'm not familiar with that particular charger and battery and I'm very reluctant to issue professional advice without being actively involved in the project.
I understand, thanks for your time :)
So if I just want an emergency battery with the highest possible charge, can I just hook it up to my 13.6V supply with a couple Megaohms of resistance and a diode in series and leave it on?
Jim, can you tell me what writing program you use in all your videos. I have all the screen capture programs like camtasia and wondershare, but I like to have the ability to wright on grid paper like you or log paper and then capture those images. I'm enjoying all your videos and giving them a THUMBS UP as well. Thanks, David.
ElectronicWizzard Sorry getting back to you so late. For some reason my previous reply wasn't posted. Anyways here's the FAQs regarding video development:
ruclips.net/video/Do7VzDuB_Rc/видео.htmlm30s
Long story short I like using MS OneNote because it has the small graph background as well as a bunch of common shapes and a huge array of colored pens. I can also cut and paste common diagrams and schematics.
Jim Pytel Got it. Thanks. David
So what I understood is that we have two limits. First limit is 14.4V or the gassing voltage, the second limit is the current which is around 0.4*C20. To meet the condition sometimes the charging voltage is dropped to reduce the current.
What would be the simplest circuit that could take an input of (variable 12.8V-14.4V) and produce a max voltage 14.4V then limit the current to 0.4*C20?
I am trying to charge a deep cycle battery with the my cars starter and variable input voltage alternator (input voltage 13.8v-14.4v), and I want to create the simplest circuit.
True. Perhaps the easiest circuit is a buck chopper w 2 set points (current then voltage). Stay in touch because I’d like to discuss chargers and choppers in the future.
Hi Jim, on the float stages, if the battery voltage is lower than charger voltage(Float voltage) how can the charger deliver the current to the battery?
+Didit Subrata If a voltage differential exists such that the charger has a higher voltage than the battery, current will flow from the charger to the battery.
yeah jim, but on the float stage the charger voltage will be below battery voltage?then how can charger deliver the current to the bttery?
+Didit Subrata Not really. Even if you held a nominal 12V battery at a float level of let's say 13.8V the moment you remove the charger the battery would drop to below 13.8V.
okay im little bit confusing now, i have 18650 li-ion cell with 4.2V max voltge& 2,8V Min Voltage. what is the float&absorbtion voltage that i need to my battery?
+Didit Subrata Li-ion is a totally different animal. Most reliable source of information for this is from the manufacturer data sheet. Li-ion is a totally different animal.
Hey Jim. First thanks much and amazing video. could not get much better than this. For real!! Question I have... I built a capacitive charger (( AC(Live) to C on cap, AC(Neu) to ac input tab on bridge rect, DC(neg) on bridge rect to 12v lead acid NEG term, DC(pos) on bridge rect to 12v lead acid POS term, HERM on cap to ac input tab on bridge rect )) after cleaning batt, and refilling if necessary with deionized/distilled/rain water, and after lots of experimenting and monitoring, I notice many times the voltage lowers below 12.1v. So I power off my switch, allow cooling time, turn switch back on. Voltage rises a bit ( different per case ) then decreases down into the lower 12.x . My cap is an oil filled dual motor run ( 370VAC , 10fan / 25compressor MFD -=- 10mfd 360mA ,, 25mfd 900mA ). Can you give me some basic details on how to monitor the different components ( amps volts watts temp etc ) ... reasons avoid overheating, avoid overcharging, and my biggest fear lol avoid undercharging. I plan once to a certain point, to transfer the good batteries to the bench and commence regular 12v charging. I am new to this crap-shoot and would love some knowledge/wisdom. Thank you much.
Here's my resource for batteries and everything related to batteries: batteryuniversity.com/
Can you share a source that will help me understand the control technique used in the CCCV charger?
That is a huge barrel of monkeys*. Once I finish up the core electro-mechanical courses I'm hoping to continue onto industrial controls featuring a whole lecture series on PID control. Long story short it's a game of establishing a "setpoint" value and having the system stay inside a range around this setpoint. My advice would be to check out "PID Control".
* an expression conveying confusion and chaos
Thats a great explaination sir.
Can I ask for the technique you apply to draw these charts. Like what is the platform you used (Matlab, PSim). I want to make a charging profile in different battery charging strategy like what you have done.
Thank you sir.
All the charts are real data plotted in MS Excel
Fully makes perfect sense considering the Universe and all things in it are electrical in nature.
Any chance that magnetism could be used to direct more usable current where it is needed?
Could magnetism, aid in offering higher currents or be used to more efficiently release energy
Current doesn't need to be directed, only limited. It naturally finds a path if given one.
So can I start charging my deeply discharged battery of 60Ah capacity without solat panned regulator with 17V and 4A current safely until battery voltage reaches 14.4V and then switch to solar regulator charging and drop charging voltage to 14V instead of 17v???
Hi Jim, I wish I could say I understood what u were trying to teach but I will keep watching till I do I suppose, I have Emerson Network Power T2V500E/A 2v 500 amp hr cells and I am loosing 1 every week now and I suspect that my charge controllers maybe the cause, cos my toyo brand cells seem to just keep going but I only have 10 of them left so I need 2 of the emersons to make the 24v bank. Can u pls help explain what this means from the label "charge current: 0.25C10A(MAX)"
Yes, .25C seems a little high (.25*500=125A). The data sheets I found for that specific battery didn't have anything specific about charge current, however, here's a general one from emerson that does, it's the graph in the upper right corner of page 2.
www.emersonnetworkpower.com/documentation/en-us/products/dcpower/ensys_batteriesandaccessories/documents/duration%20range%20datasheet.pdf
This graph is shows they're using the modified constant voltage method as featured in this lecture and during the initial constant current phase they're using 0.1C or 50A. Honestly my best recommendation is to directly consult the manufacturer because I'm two or three times removed. Hope this helps!
Chinese manufacturers are the worst to communicate with, I had to tell Must Power last week to stick they're BS customer service where the sun don't shine so I don't hold much hope for that 1, BUT thank you for replying so quick and checking out the specs on my specific battery which seems to be a bodgy battery period.
In the constant voltage method, will the current lower naturally or do we lower it ourselves?
As the voltage differential between the charger and the charging battery becomes less and less current will naturally become smaller and smaller as a consequence of Ohm's Law. It's for this same reason the constant voltage method is NOT recommended for deeply discharged batteries. A large voltage differential exists between the charger and the deeply discharged battery and, as a result, potentially destructive amounts of current can flow.
In the multi stage constant current method, why does the voltage drop when the second and third stages of lower constant current are initiated? It's slope should decrease after the transition and not go negative. Please explain
You're correct that it's not an "instantaneous" drop off the cliff but rather a sloped transition. A lot of this has to do with how frequently you sample the data. Since batteries take an appreciable amount of time to charge often the data sampling occurs at an extremely slow rate. As such, the roll off between two stages appears like a jump.
Jim Pytel Got it! Thank you so much for the quick reply
my forklift charger is 20 yrs old working good, getting a new forklift w new battery, should I change the charger also, to protect my investment, does the charger technology as evolved since to charge a 36V 750ah battery?
Honestly the modified constant voltage charging method has been around for a long, long time and, as long as the new battery can handle this method and the old charger can reach the new setpoints it should work.
During the CV phase of charging, an exponentially falling current is still going inside the battery so why doesn't the voltage across battery increase in that phase?
There might still be a small voltage rise at the earliest part of this stage, however, a lot of this has to do with electrochemical reactions that I'm not remotely qualified to discuss.
How many volts should EFB type batteries be manually charged? 14.4 Volts or 15.8 Volts? Thank you for video.
I'm going to give you the standard answer for this type of question: "Check the data sheet for the battery of interest." This being said there's a couple good resources on the web:
batteryuniversity.com/
and
www.rbbattery.com/efb-batteries-everything-you-need-to-know/
Thank you now my empty brain is fully charges
I wired two 12 volt batteries in series. So i can charge them with 24 volt charger right ? Can someone answer this question please?...
If the open voltage of the battery is at 11.5V, will there be immediate gassing if the charger charges at 15V? Does gassing happen at low amperage of charging, say at 15V 50mA?
I honestly don't know if gassing is a current dependent phenomenon? I would check battery university. They're my go to for all things battery. batteryuniversity.com/learn/
@@bigbadtech Thanks. I am aware of the battery university. But, they are a bit too "heavy" for what I need. I found it much easier to form my own hypothesis, and I have it now.
Lead acid battery works on the principle of electro-chemical conversion. Sulphuric acid + lead = current + lead sulphate. In reverse, current + lead sulphate = sulphuric acid + lead. The voltage affects the efficiency of this conversion.
Gassing happens when excessive energy is pumped into the battery. Some of this energy is consumed by converting lead sulphate to sulphuric acid. The remainder boils the acid, resulting in vapour. The boiling can only happen if the surrounding fluid cannot cool the heating element (aka the lead plate) fast enough.
In answer to my own question: the heating element with a small amount of input energy cannot overcome the cooling effect of the surrounding electrolyte. Therefore, no gassing takes place. If it does take place, it would be in minuscule amounts. My conclusion is that gassing is proportional to the actual measured wattage of the heating element (lead plates) scaled by the temperature of the electrolyte.
15V x 0.050A = 0.75W. This will not be doing much electrolyte boiling and gassing in a battery, unless the electrolyte is preheated closer to its boiling point.
can i charge car battery with alkaline battery ??
So I have 3 lead acid batteries. 2 10Ah & 1 7Ah can I charge them together on a 24V charger?
Mixing batteries with different specs (even mixing batteries with the same specs from different manufacturers) isn't a recommended practice, however, you could probably charge at the lowest rate for the group. It'd take a little longer for the ones that allow higher charge rates but wouldn't damage the ones that require a lower charge rate.
Thanks, I’ll just keep doing what I was doing before charge the 2 10’s together with the original product & charge the 7 alone with my charge charger. Sure not all will discharge at the same time but I just need it for a pinch when my new batteries come.
My battery water was coming out of the top when I charged it. Is my battery ruined now?
Are the methods same with Li-ion batteries ? Is the gassing voltage also present ?
Not exactly ... although most Li battery manufacturers products essentially mimic the performance of traditional lead acid.
cool
Nice intro ..
does this apply to NIMH batteries?
Not really. This lecture kind of focused on lead acid batteries however some of the terminology is similar. I should probably do another lecture about other battery chemistries (NIMH and Li being the 2 most popular) highlighting the differences.
@@bigbadtech well it was very helpful mate, thanks. Iam writing firmware to charge/discharge lead acid battery and a Nimh battery for my company's product, for the NiMh iam using a bulk/pulse method. During bulk iam pushing constant current (maximum allowable by manufacturer) to the battery, and iam using three termination conditions, a timer, the rate of change of the battery temperature, and the battery voltage. Doing the same during pulse but for a much shorter interval of time.
Hello... can charge 12v lead acid battery with constant voltage 14.4v And constant current “ CV,CC” ?
I wouldn't recommend a constant voltage charge. Example: 14.4V applied to a deeply discharged battery (around 10.5V) would result in uncontrolled, potentially damaging, current. It's for this reason the 3 stage modified constant voltage charging method is recommended. First stage is constant current, then the remaining 2 stages are constant voltage methods
I don’t have multi stage charger i have 1500watt adjustable power supply with constant voltage and current cv and cc , and have adjustable over voltage protection circuit, my battery is 12v lead acid 20Ah so what i do to charge it daily ? Can you help
Option 1: Get a multistage charger.
Option 2: Constantly manually adjust your CV power supply to keep charge current below the manufacturer's recommended maximum.
Thanks i can limit current below manaufacturers recomend, my power supply has current limiting so we fixed current and constant but to which voltage set my power supply to 14.4 or below it mean thats i charge my battery with constant voltage+ constant current so is good for battery or not , as i said i don’t have multi stage charger but have auto cut off voltage whent battery reach 14.4v my power supply stop charging battery
The question is that : if i limit current+ limit voltage with over voltage protection and both not change during charging process is good or not
What does a 25c battery mean
Hard to tell without the datasheet however "C" might mean the capacity in Ah. 25C might mean 25 times the capacity. Often times maximum permissible charge or discharge rates are listed as some multiple of C.
What is discharge and over voltage for 12 volt 26 amp battery ?
The safest answer I can give you is to look up this data for your specific battery on the manufacturer data sheet. Anything else is a wild guess.
Why not just limit both the current (to 10% of Ah) and the voltage (to 2.6 VDC times cells) and leave it. Whichever hit's the limit will restrict the other.
i think that when the voltage reaches the desired value, the current will drop. it will just take a long time
Float charger is the best! just ask cell tower workers.
TIP; INSULAT YOUR TOOLS WITH SOME TAPE WHEN USED.
Just like all people that talk about batteries is the terms periodically and occasionally. You did say to equalize every six months or 20 cycles which means you take a battery from full to recharge state every nine days but yet you discharged that battery in your example in 28 minutes. It is also worth noting that Trojan says to bring and absorb their T105 at 14.8 with an equalize at 16.2. But they do say a variable reduction above 25C. My complaint is they are very specific at everything but then throw in these words so the customer can be blamed for not interpreting occasionally and periodically correctly. Why not talk of hydrometers?
Hydrometers are mentioned in the "Introduction to Batteries" lecture at: ruclips.net/video/ZRruGTRHqiw/видео.html
I hear you regarding the ambiguity of some manufacturer specifications. The only general advice I've been given about equalization frequency is this: if the batteries are "deeply discharged on a daily basis" they may need to be equalized every "1 or 2 weeks" whereas batteries that are "less severely discharged" equalization may only be required every "1 or 2 months". My go to for everything batteries is: batteryuniversity.com/
Is he putting the voice on?
Nah! I'd rather watch some idiot try to take a charger out of a box and talk about how the packing materials are "saving the planet". Thx anyway.
35 mins of non stop waffle who cares about buckets and rocks ' just tell us about how to charge a battery so it lasts longer ' what setting what charger ' its simple so just make it simple with out the boring long head ache .
I care about buckets and rocks. Without having the main principles in mind, your head will always be discharged as ever.
@@magherusansorin122 : well said!!
fred: these vids aren't idiot friendly. They are user friendly. begone idiot.