Another example of I thought of is the guy who gives you a Shuckle in Cianwood. He makes it clear that he wants it back later, but the player is free to just keep it.
There’s also the opposite of this present in pokemon X and Y with the man in Anistar City who asks you to give him any of your pokemon so he can have a friend in his old age, and after you beat the pokemon league if you gave him a pokemon and returned to his house the house is empty and your pokemon is sitting in a ball in the center of the house, implying the man died 🥲🥲
Dude, I never knew you could give the togepi back. To make things worse, that togepi is the pokemon I chose to collect all ribbons. with I named him Journey and played with him through every game, he traveled far and wide for every region. Now I feel bad haha
@@droomish1same but I tend to find it really hard to find such stories The ones I know of is An omastar is for life Some dude on RUclips being enamored by his xd Lugia being in sheild Oswald the delibird Sir toasty toes shiny Scizor I want to make one with my yellow version Pikachu and plan to upload the story once we catch up to the latest main series titles
@@nublulz exactly. Hordel was just gonna hoard the Togepi in a pokeball and stand in that truck stop forever, not allowing Togepi to ever see the light of day.
Kenya the Spearow in Johto is another example of this! Kenya is holding mail that you’re supposed to deliver to someone else, but you can also just keep the bird
While it is true you can keep Kenya, the main purpose of the task given to you is deliver the mail (which you can move to another Pokémon and give him the mail still). This doesn’t have exactly the same weight as the game doesn’t even recognize your choice of keeping the Pokémon or delivering it- the guard only cares if you gave the mail. Now as another comment had mentioned, there is another scenario with a man in Cianwood city who will let you guard his shuckle from your rival after he had stolen the poor man’s other Pokémon. When he asks for it back and you didn’t bring the shuckle to max friendship and you decline he is worried that you are gonna keep it just like your rival.
I think there's also an oversight. He's meant to keep the Spearow along with the mail, but if Kenya evolves, the game thinks "well it's not a Spearow" and lets you keep it regardless.
The only thing that stuck out to me is that the narrative impact of Togepi having 0 Happiness could have other interpretations. It could be like Ash's Charmander. It could be that weaker Pokemon are hit harder with Shadow aspects.
that's a great point! I looked far and wide for another shadow pokemon that had an altered base happiness but I couldn't find anything, so that was my theory. maybe togepi is just more pure than most
Fun fact about the base friendships on catch. Buneary is one of the only non-legendary pokemon that starts at 0 friendship when you catch them. Even more fitting considering their evolution requirement
Yeah, and then Lopunny's base friendship is 255, _the maximum amount._ Only a small amount of Pokémon start out with max friendship, such as the Chansey line (a family of Pokémon entirely based on its encounter being a lucky one for the player). It makes me think Buneary and Lopunny are made as an example for the friendship mechanic, considering how much of their in-game statistics center around it; like how Gen 1 has Golem, Machamp, Gengar and Alakazam as an example of trading Pokémon, Deerling and Sawsbuck as an example of Gen 5's season mechanic, Plusle and Minun as an example for Double Battles, etc.
To go along with Buneary hating you and Lopunny falling in love with you, Buneary is the only pokémon to learn Frustration through Level Up, and Lopunny is the only one to learn Return through Level Up. They learn it at the same level too.
See I also feel like this choice would matter more if you didn't get a Shadow Electabuzz later in the story. So if you keep Togepi, you still get a chance at owning your own Electabuzz but if you give up Togepi.. that's it. And you'll end up with 2 Electabuzz. Granted this one is a lot earlier, traded so it gets that sweet exp boost, and those moves, but still. Keeping Togepi just makes more sense. And sure, maybe you didn't know about the Electabuzz later in the game yet, but you could also just not purify Togepi until the post game too, since gen 3 Togepi isn't exactly the best. You'd be forgiven for putting that off until later.
I feel like that's part of the dilemma though. It's less of a moral choice if both pokemon are irreplacable in their own right as opposed to the usual fossil choice many games give you.
What helps HORDEL a lot here is that he acknowledges that you likely grew attached the Togepi while purifying it and recognizes it even as a Togetic. Both show he genuinely cared about it. I couldn't keep the little cute egg away from him.
My guess is he wasn't aware of how to do so.... as there are only 2 methods, and one of them wasn't even up and running until you get part way through the game. Maybe all he knows is "This shadow Togepi needs to be purified.... and this kid knows how to do that." Also, Cipher might be hunting him down for his betrayal and he is probably less equipped to face them then you are, giving it to you means lower chance of it getting re-stolen by Cipher before it get's purified.
God I miss old Pokemon. I also miss fantasizing about Pokemon mixing with other concepts. Pokemon works PERFECTLY with a pseudo post apocalyptic desert setting. Or some kind of cyberpunk. One of these days nostalgia will fall into my lap.
@@bobjoe3492 Yes. This is my thoughts exactly. The fact they decided to stray from formula and start pumping out games yearly was a big one, too. If they'd let Gen V cook for a few more years I think we'd have been better off.
I loved the concept of Shadow Pokémon and i really wish it returned to the series. Looking at the Colosseum and XD footage i couldn't help but to love those games back then and still love them today. Rest in Peace "The Under" you were such a cool place with a banger of a theme.
Idk about everyone else but every time I get a Togepi in a new Pokemon game, the first one I get in each and every game I can get one in; I always name it Omelette, and personally every time that name comes up thereafter naming it that always puts a smile on my face and slowly strengthens a bond with the little Togepi and makes me wanna evolve her/him into a Togetic and/or Togekiss when possible and getting her/him to level 100 with max stats.
Surprised that you never mentioned the fact that you can literally already get Electabuzz in XD anyway. That's probably the biggest reason, at least mechanically, to not take the trade: the Togepi is unique to any Togepi you can get in any game, but the Elekid isn't even unique to the game you get it in.
@@neokonline_not normally, but technically you can. Tri Attack Togepi you could not have legally outside of XD at this point (and for many years later).
Now in a meta sense it’s true that we weren’t given any hints that he wanted it back, but in-universe, if I told someone I rescued a kitten but it had some strange illness that I heard they knew how to cure and asked them to cure it, and later found out they assumed that meant I was giving it to them entirely, I would be shocked lmao. Like yeah I guess I didn’t say I wanted to keep the kitten but I didn’t realize vets wanted it so bad
I didn't get XD till many years later at a flea market, meaning I played through all of 5th gen knowing that eviolite Togetic with serene grace was possible but not obtainable for me, so I was quite excited when I finally got my hands on a GameCube to GBA cable and began to play through to collect all the unique moves I knew existed from playing on Showdown but had been missing out on using in-game over the years. However, I did go back to show my good friend Hordel that I had completed his request and was indeed confronted with this unexpected conundrum where I was being asked to give up the one shadow Pokémon I most wanted to transfer over and use its unique moves. In the end, I decided that I would eventually have to do another run anyways because I too like collecting unique Pokemon that are registered under the name of an NPC, so I needed to get my hands on Zaprong as well. So I decided that in the "sacred timeline" that was my original playthrough, I simply had to give the man his beloved friend back, and only in an alternate universe could I be a heartless scoundrel focused on my own desires, much like I'm doing my shiny hunt for Kenya the Spearow on a file I am planning to erase anyways.
You can have both. Just steal togapi and then snag shadow elecabuzz, trade it to the main games and breed it. Elekid is only useful if you really want an elekid on your team. You get less unique species out of the game by making the trade. Also elekid does not have the unique ribbon given to shadow pokemon so if made a ribbon master, it would have less ribbons than the previously mentioned pokemon
Back when I played XD, I took Zaprong and it has been part of my Team ever since. In fact, I'm exploring the Tera Dome with it right now, since the last update finally allowed me to bring it over from Home.
You can give the Shuckle back, but if you never go back to him, he'd never find out anyway. And the Kenya thing is more about the mail it's holding than the Spearow. Hell, you can take the mail, give it to any random Pokemon and keep the Spearow. I legit don't even remember if you're rewarded for giving the Shuckle back. I think it's just an easy way to get it registered in the Pokedex.
13:38 no i agree, kalos /xy deserved so much more. the wrong game got a sequel tbh, sun and moon was just fine on its own usum was like a weird alternate universe dlc ^^; at least we're getting legends kalos
Yeah it was a bit weird. USUM really felt like a third edition of Alola and not a sequel. Gamefreak could've added a lot to improve X/Y without doing too much.
Seems like the best play is absolutely to just clone it in Emerald lol. Maybe even clone it twice, so you can keep a version of Togepi in gen 3, transfer a clone to gen 4, AND get the Elekid with the elemental punches lol
Ngl even if it lost the Normal STAB through further transfer a Tri Attack Togepi/-tic/-kiss would be something; hopefully it’d retain the knowledge of said move should it be able to transfer into Home and beyond
You actually made a whole video about this Pokémon! Great work! I actually have this Togepi with me in Pokémon Home now, unevolved. I wish I could use it in Violet.
the Crown Tundra Calyrex story is also the same, you either get Glastrier or Spectrier … minus the ethical/moral dilemma of giving back someone’s pokemon or not
If you are into transferring Pokemon to future games, in the end, the Shadow Togepi isn't so special anymore, because it gets Tri Attack through the move reminder and Helping Hand via TM in Gen 8
Another thing, being that this is a video game, you never get the chance to actually have an in-depth conversation with him on whether you can keep the Togepi. And it's not possible to ask the Togepi who they want to stay with either. If this was in real life, I'm sure there's a lot more you could do to not make this as daunting of a decision. Maybe you could work out a joint custody arrangement lmao
To be entirely fair, outside of just purifying them, it's also explicitly stated in the game that Team Snagem steals Pokémon from their original trainers, then Cipher corrupts them (and then, in a variety of ways, distributes them.) More so in the first game where you have Cipher stealing a whole damn ship full of pokemon right at the start of the game. It's not like Cipher's just acting out in the open, going 'hey, wanna turn your best friend into a vicious, powerful hellspawn who hates everything?'
So true story. I kept togepi, it had serene grace. Evolved it in Gen 4 and its ability changed to hustle. Didn't think that was possible since in gen 3, togepi had both abilities already
"You Can't Do Both" Me, willing to replay the game to get both: 😗 Also, lovely take on X & Y, they're not my fav games, but HOLY are they underrated, they're so fun.
Love your unique takes on niche Pokemon lore. Keep up the great work Droomish. Maybe you could do one analyzing statistically the best baby Pokemon egg to take in Crystal or something about the bug catching contest? Always love to see more XD/colosseum content too.
Solid arguments, you and Capreo got me thinking and I have two points I want to bring up. 1. If Hordel truly loved his Togepi, why did he not try to purify it himself using the Relic Stone? Pokémon Xd, is a sequel to Colosseum and the original method of purifying the shadow Pokémon was using the Relic Stone. Wes and Rui went there dozens of times to purify their Shadow Pokémon. Surely somebody in Agate Village seen the pair and is willing to tell Hordel about this method. 2. Why did he let Togepi become shadowed in the first place? If we look at the majority of the upper ranks of Cipher, we see that Cipher Admins do not Shadow certain Pokémon. Lovrina does not shadow her Roselia. Gorigan keeps his Walrein, Ursaring, Aggron, and Slowking pure. Ardos' Alakazam and Snattle's Quagsire are more examples of admins keeping certain Pokémon unshadowed. Shadow Pokémon are always the newcomers to the party. This makes me think that that the bad guys keep certain Pokémon unshadowed on purpose. They are truly friends with their favorite Pokémon and refuse to let them become shadow Pokémon. If Hordel truly cared about Togepi, then he should have not shadowed him in the first place.
1. Cipher has members everywhere you don't know who you can Trust. So when Hordel hears about a Hero going around STEALING/ SNAGING the Shadow Pokemon and Purifying them he Reaches out to you Hoping you can SAVE/Purify Shadow Togepi. 2. Maybe he felt it'd be STRONGER to Defend itself and him, but Realized his Mistake later.
Really good video, and that ad read was on the level of PokemonChallenges! I'm so happy I found your channel, keep doing what you're doing and merry christmas
I'd probably go with Elekid because Eviolite Togetic is essentially the MVP in my current Supernova Sun playthrough, so I've already made heavy use of it. Doesn't seem to get Heat Wave in Gen 3 either, which is what I like using it for.
Basically its a decision of: Serene Grace Tri Attack Togetic (50% chance of happening) or Elemental Punch Electabuzz, which is an earlier Electabuzz than the Shadow one later, and Hordel's has better coverage too!
I’ve never played XD but I have played Colosseum. I’ve moved every Pokemon from my Colosseum save to Violet or Sword(depending on availability) and the Togetic you get at the end of Colosseum is now a happy Togekiss in Sword. But regarding this situation I’d keep the Togepi just because Fairy is an awesome type. Either way if you move up the Elekid or Togepi you have a really special pokemon
My favorite pokemon to steal is Kenya the Spearow from HGSS. It's easy enough to do, just take the letter its holding and put it on any other pokemon before delivering it to the sleepy man, but once you pull it off you have an experience-boosted Spearow ready to evolve in a single level, and in Johto it's a monster, pulling down decent attack, moving first against almost everything and learning Fly or Drill Peck, all while pulling in better experience to fight the XP drought that plagues the region. Plus, neither the sleepy man nor the gate guard care about it, they just see it as a random coorior (pun intended), so there's very little reason not to go through with it.
One question I have is how much happiness/friendship Zaprong has. While Hordel seems to have good intentions, he still was a member of Cipher. Now I'm not saying Hordel is a bad guy, I think he really does mean the best. It would have been much more interesting if he traded you an Elekid with 0 friendship or if it were a Shadow Pokemon. This would give the player the impression that Hordel was lying and doesn't have the best intentions. Imagine if that were the case and you could battle him to get the Togepi back.
i'm left to wonder if the Japanese version of the game has any additional hints in the dialog that he wants his Pokémon back when he gives Togepi up, that just didn't get translated along the way.
Please make a video about the TV shows you can watch by interacting with the TVs in Pokémon. And the dexnav shows as well. They pack so much detail into these bits and i know you'd do it justice
Personally, analyzing at the end of this, especially from a gameplay sense, I think giving Hordel back the Togepi in exchange for the Elekid is the right choice. Those coverage moves are no joke and Ice Punch especially really helps out Electabuzz check it's weakness to Ground types, while both it and Fire Punch also help check resistances for Grass and Bug types.
"He didn't directly ask for it back to begin with" I dunno, I feel "can you purify my pokemon" is pretty cut and dry. If someone says "can you watch my dog?" (or in this case more like "can you take my dog to the vet?" I suppose) you don't suddenly own the dog.
I always imagined that if a pokemon is caught in a ball, it is bound to that ball unless released. Unless, of course, you have special technology like the snag machine in order to circumvent that.
really good video, I like how you tend to look at things that most other RUclipsrs don't even think about it makes your content unique and fresh, easily the best Pokemon RUclipsr in my opinion
The thing that I really like about this scenario and that I feel like is largely missing from recent Pokemon games is that there's a philosophical and moral stance you can take to justify or condemn either option, it's all just a matter of what school of thought you subscribe to. On one hand, you could say that he wasn't up front about his desire for you to give Togepi back and should have known what he was getting into giving it to a random stranger, and therefore you are justified in keeping it. On the other hand, you could say that the possibility of him having already formed a bond with it makes giving it back the right thing to do regardless of the reward. This moral ambiguity is something I feel like games in general need more of and especially Pokemon games. Nothing like "The bad guy team seemed to be bullies but they were actually just misunderstood!" crap we've been getting lately, the kind of thing that truly gives you a choice to make and then question and come to your own conclusions on whether it was the right one later.
Will togepi keep tri attack when moved to home? I'm in the process of cloning and transferring every former shadow pokemon and in game trade from colosseum and XD to home
I just did a playthrough of XD last year and used Togepi on my team in spite of the consequences, he was actually my strongest member by sheer nature of the supportive utility. Serene grace status and helping hand are amazing when you can get full value out of them in a playthrough for once.
Mt Silver in Heart gold has a 20% chance of a Steelix encounter in the Moltres chamber but every time I go to Mt Silver I will always encounter Steelix while I have Steelix in my party. I have 2 boxes full of Steelix
the idea of a tri attack SG togekiss in gen 4 got me so hype even through we are well into gen 9 comp battling and way beyond the days of HGSS online battles, but i wish i knew this back then 😂
15:10 For some reason all of my Pokemon transferred up through Black/White replace their original obtained date with the date they were transferred and that makes me sad
Maybe I'm weird, but I've always felt like my Pokemon Team is just that - a team. Once I've added a pokemon to it and used it for a while, I feel bad replacing it. I generally try to decide ahead of time when I play one of the games which 6 pokemon I am going to use, because I know that once my team is full, I won't want to replace any of them. They're my partners, and it would feel cruel to box them just for something "stronger" or "more viable". I honestly don't know what I would do with the Togepi, because once I used it I'm sure I wouldn't want to give it up, but I would also feel bad not returning it to the original owner. Honestly a tough call on that one.
Ugh, I’m playing though XD and am in this exact predicament now! I’m also doing a Nuzlocke of the game which makes it extra tough. On one hand, Togetic is more defensively oriented and has two immunities, which helps it stay alive. On the other hand my team doesn’t have a way to hit water-types super effectively, and I should be adding Zangoose to my team soon (another normal type). Not to mention the moral dilemma! Haha really not sure what to go with…
@ 13:38 Is that actually what you think or was that someone elses comment? No shade or judgments just legit curious. For me, Gen 3 and 5 were the highlights of Pokemon's career and the best ones by far
Is it possible to trade Togepi to Emerald, clone a lot of copies of it, then gave him back the original one, so you’ll still have a copy of it and give him it back so you’ll end up with both Togepi and Elekid? Edit:- Oh, later in the video you did say that this is an option. Sorry, I didn’t reach that far in the video when I made the comment. Was just asking for past knowledge.
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Don't put sponsored content in the middle of the video.
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@@Gnarfledarf its literally in the first two minutes??
Another example of I thought of is the guy who gives you a Shuckle in Cianwood. He makes it clear that he wants it back later, but the player is free to just keep it.
Also Kenya the Spearow in HGSS (not sure if it happens in GSC too)
if your friendship with it is high enough when bringing it back, he actually lets you keep it!
@@amiosi That's so cool! I didn't know that.
@@Silvermoon424lol. You never even tried to give it back. Thief.
Glad you mentioned this! Through the whole video I was wondering "what about shuckle and Spearow from the Johto games"
There’s also the opposite of this present in pokemon X and Y with the man in Anistar City who asks you to give him any of your pokemon so he can have a friend in his old age, and after you beat the pokemon league if you gave him a pokemon and returned to his house the house is empty and your pokemon is sitting in a ball in the center of the house, implying the man died 🥲🥲
One of my absolute favorite little details in any main-series title. Glad I'm not the only one who still remembers it.
Also the Pokemon will have maxed out friendship, which makes it even sadder
@@juliamavroidi8601Oh god that stung.
I gave him a random Gastly I got from a Wonder Trade because I needed a Haunter for the entry and thought he would level it up 🥺
This fucked me up as a kid..
Dude, I never knew you could give the togepi back. To make things worse, that togepi is the pokemon I chose to collect all ribbons. with I named him Journey and played with him through every game, he traveled far and wide for every region. Now I feel bad haha
Hordel would be proud. You let that Togepi experience more of the world than he probably ever could.
yeah you've earned it I'm a suckered for any good "across the generations" story
@@droomish1same but I tend to find it really hard to find such stories
The ones I know of is
An omastar is for life
Some dude on RUclips being enamored by his xd Lugia being in sheild
Oswald the delibird
Sir toasty toes shiny Scizor
I want to make one with my yellow version Pikachu and plan to upload the story once we catch up to the latest main series titles
@@nublulz exactly. Hordel was just gonna hoard the Togepi in a pokeball and stand in that truck stop forever, not allowing Togepi to ever see the light of day.
Lmao it's also my Ribbon Master, though it's been in Sinnoh for nearly 2 years now (I just have World Ability and the contests to do)
Kenya the Spearow in Johto is another example of this! Kenya is holding mail that you’re supposed to deliver to someone else, but you can also just keep the bird
While it is true you can keep Kenya, the main purpose of the task given to you is deliver the mail (which you can move to another Pokémon and give him the mail still). This doesn’t have exactly the same weight as the game doesn’t even recognize your choice of keeping the Pokémon or delivering it- the guard only cares if you gave the mail. Now as another comment had mentioned, there is another scenario with a man in Cianwood city who will let you guard his shuckle from your rival after he had stolen the poor man’s other Pokémon. When he asks for it back and you didn’t bring the shuckle to max friendship and you decline he is worried that you are gonna keep it just like your rival.
@@damienwalker9477wait will he let you keep Shuckle if you get Max Friendship with it?
I think there's also an oversight. He's meant to keep the Spearow along with the mail, but if Kenya evolves, the game thinks "well it's not a Spearow" and lets you keep it regardless.
@@BloodThirstyAvengersI was gonna ask what happens if you evolve it as I'm funnily enough playing through soul silver and have Kenya In my party
@@PaulyyBam I know you keep it in the originals, not sure about the remakes.
Since you're almost guaranteed to get a Togepi from an egg, its base happiness is usually 120, so this one is in so much contrast!
The only thing that stuck out to me is that the narrative impact of Togepi having 0 Happiness could have other interpretations. It could be like Ash's Charmander. It could be that weaker Pokemon are hit harder with Shadow aspects.
that's a great point! I looked far and wide for another shadow pokemon that had an altered base happiness but I couldn't find anything, so that was my theory. maybe togepi is just more pure than most
Fun fact about the base friendships on catch. Buneary is one of the only non-legendary pokemon that starts at 0 friendship when you catch them. Even more fitting considering their evolution requirement
Meaning that frustration and return basically have the same dmg output :))
Yeah, and then Lopunny's base friendship is 255, _the maximum amount._ Only a small amount of Pokémon start out with max friendship, such as the Chansey line (a family of Pokémon entirely based on its encounter being a lucky one for the player).
It makes me think Buneary and Lopunny are made as an example for the friendship mechanic, considering how much of their in-game statistics center around it; like how Gen 1 has Golem, Machamp, Gengar and Alakazam as an example of trading Pokémon, Deerling and Sawsbuck as an example of Gen 5's season mechanic, Plusle and Minun as an example for Double Battles, etc.
To go along with Buneary hating you and Lopunny falling in love with you, Buneary is the only pokémon to learn Frustration through Level Up, and Lopunny is the only one to learn Return through Level Up. They learn it at the same level too.
Trainer: 😊
Buneary: Punk Ahh Kid
A real tsundere.
See I also feel like this choice would matter more if you didn't get a Shadow Electabuzz later in the story. So if you keep Togepi, you still get a chance at owning your own Electabuzz but if you give up Togepi.. that's it. And you'll end up with 2 Electabuzz. Granted this one is a lot earlier, traded so it gets that sweet exp boost, and those moves, but still. Keeping Togepi just makes more sense. And sure, maybe you didn't know about the Electabuzz later in the game yet, but you could also just not purify Togepi until the post game too, since gen 3 Togepi isn't exactly the best. You'd be forgiven for putting that off until later.
I feel like that's part of the dilemma though. It's less of a moral choice if both pokemon are irreplacable in their own right as opposed to the usual fossil choice many games give you.
What helps HORDEL a lot here is that he acknowledges that you likely grew attached the Togepi while purifying it and recognizes it even as a Togetic. Both show he genuinely cared about it.
I couldn't keep the little cute egg away from him.
I find it interesting how tri attack has the basis of the elemental punches.
Three-punch combo.
I never even went back to the guy with the Shadow Togepi. I thought he was just giving it to us. lol
Your profile pic suits this comment perfectly.
I think it's interesting that he's been raising this Elekid but can't purify Togepi on his own. Why is that?
My guess is he wasn't aware of how to do so.... as there are only 2 methods, and one of them wasn't even up and running until you get part way through the game.
Maybe all he knows is "This shadow Togepi needs to be purified.... and this kid knows how to do that."
Also, Cipher might be hunting him down for his betrayal and he is probably less equipped to face them then you are, giving it to you means lower chance of it getting re-stolen by Cipher before it get's purified.
@@13KuriMaster That'd make a neat little side story.
God I miss old Pokemon.
I also miss fantasizing about Pokemon mixing with other concepts. Pokemon works PERFECTLY with a pseudo post apocalyptic desert setting. Or some kind of cyberpunk.
One of these days nostalgia will fall into my lap.
Gen 5 was the last decent one, the shift to 3DS was the downfall of Pokémon imo
@@bobjoe3492 Yes. This is my thoughts exactly.
The fact they decided to stray from formula and start pumping out games yearly was a big one, too. If they'd let Gen V cook for a few more years I think we'd have been better off.
there's always more memories to be made! I'm about to boot up a white 2 save myself
I loved the concept of Shadow Pokémon and i really wish it returned to the series. Looking at the Colosseum and XD footage i couldn't help but to love those games back then and still love them today. Rest in Peace "The Under" you were such a cool place with a banger of a theme.
In a sense, didn’t Shadow Pokémon return in a sense in Pokémon Go with Team Rocket doing the corruption this time?
Yeah GO has shadow Pokémon and can be "purified" which is the same verbiage used in the GameCube games
@@PokemonFan1986Yeah, but they'll abandon a shadow pokemon when they lose. No snag machine required.
Idk about everyone else but every time I get a Togepi in a new Pokemon game, the first one I get in each and every game I can get one in; I always name it Omelette, and personally every time that name comes up thereafter naming it that always puts a smile on my face and slowly strengthens a bond with the little Togepi and makes me wanna evolve her/him into a Togetic and/or Togekiss when possible and getting her/him to level 100 with max stats.
The Togepi- Houndoom interaction at 6:33 was adorable
>Scerene Grace Tri Attack Togekiss
"After all... Why shouldn't I keep it?"
Surprised that you never mentioned the fact that you can literally already get Electabuzz in XD anyway. That's probably the biggest reason, at least mechanically, to not take the trade: the Togepi is unique to any Togepi you can get in any game, but the Elekid isn't even unique to the game you get it in.
But the elekid has three egg moves which you can normally not do
@@neokonline_not normally, but technically you can. Tri Attack Togepi you could not have legally outside of XD at this point (and for many years later).
Now in a meta sense it’s true that we weren’t given any hints that he wanted it back, but in-universe, if I told someone I rescued a kitten but it had some strange illness that I heard they knew how to cure and asked them to cure it, and later found out they assumed that meant I was giving it to them entirely, I would be shocked lmao. Like yeah I guess I didn’t say I wanted to keep the kitten but I didn’t realize vets wanted it so bad
This. Exactly this.
I didn't get XD till many years later at a flea market, meaning I played through all of 5th gen knowing that eviolite Togetic with serene grace was possible but not obtainable for me, so I was quite excited when I finally got my hands on a GameCube to GBA cable and began to play through to collect all the unique moves I knew existed from playing on Showdown but had been missing out on using in-game over the years. However, I did go back to show my good friend Hordel that I had completed his request and was indeed confronted with this unexpected conundrum where I was being asked to give up the one shadow Pokémon I most wanted to transfer over and use its unique moves. In the end, I decided that I would eventually have to do another run anyways because I too like collecting unique Pokemon that are registered under the name of an NPC, so I needed to get my hands on Zaprong as well. So I decided that in the "sacred timeline" that was my original playthrough, I simply had to give the man his beloved friend back, and only in an alternate universe could I be a heartless scoundrel focused on my own desires, much like I'm doing my shiny hunt for Kenya the Spearow on a file I am planning to erase anyways.
I love your content droomish, you really capture the essence of early pokemon
You can have both. Just steal togapi and then snag shadow elecabuzz, trade it to the main games and breed it. Elekid is only useful if you really want an elekid on your team. You get less unique species out of the game by making the trade. Also elekid does not have the unique ribbon given to shadow pokemon so if made a ribbon master, it would have less ribbons than the previously mentioned pokemon
If you are trading it to Emerald games, you can clone it (cloning is so easy in that game, look it up)
Back when I played XD, I took Zaprong and it has been part of my Team ever since. In fact, I'm exploring the Tera Dome with it right now, since the last update finally allowed me to bring it over from Home.
What about the Shuckle guy in Cianwood? And Kenya the Spearow?
You can give the Shuckle back, but if you never go back to him, he'd never find out anyway. And the Kenya thing is more about the mail it's holding than the Spearow. Hell, you can take the mail, give it to any random Pokemon and keep the Spearow.
I legit don't even remember if you're rewarded for giving the Shuckle back. I think it's just an easy way to get it registered in the Pokedex.
13:38 no i agree, kalos /xy deserved so much more. the wrong game got a sequel tbh, sun and moon was just fine on its own usum was like a weird alternate universe dlc ^^; at least we're getting legends kalos
KALOS HAD THE BEST FASHION AND IF I CAN'T HAVE A PRETTY DRESS IN THIS GAME THEN I'LL LOSE IT
Yeah it was a bit weird. USUM really felt like a third edition of Alola and not a sequel. Gamefreak could've added a lot to improve X/Y without doing too much.
Seems like the best play is absolutely to just clone it in Emerald lol. Maybe even clone it twice, so you can keep a version of Togepi in gen 3, transfer a clone to gen 4, AND get the Elekid with the elemental punches lol
Ngl even if it lost the Normal STAB through further transfer a Tri Attack Togepi/-tic/-kiss would be something; hopefully it’d retain the knowledge of said move should it be able to transfer into Home and beyond
You actually made a whole video about this Pokémon! Great work! I actually have this Togepi with me in Pokémon Home now, unevolved. I wish I could use it in Violet.
I think you could have mentioned other Pokémon that were intended to be returned like Shuckie from GSC/HGSS
the Crown Tundra Calyrex story is also the same, you either get Glastrier or Spectrier … minus the ethical/moral dilemma of giving back someone’s pokemon or not
So we’re not gonna mention the shiny Spoink throughout the video then?
Or the suicune being taught surf?? 16:30
Another good counterpoint: if you really want an Electabuzz in Gale of Darkness... you can catch a Shadow Electabuzz later on in the story!
If you are into transferring Pokemon to future games, in the end, the Shadow Togepi isn't so special anymore, because it gets Tri Attack through the move reminder and Helping Hand via TM in Gen 8
Another thing, being that this is a video game, you never get the chance to actually have an in-depth conversation with him on whether you can keep the Togepi. And it's not possible to ask the Togepi who they want to stay with either.
If this was in real life, I'm sure there's a lot more you could do to not make this as daunting of a decision. Maybe you could work out a joint custody arrangement lmao
To be entirely fair, outside of just purifying them, it's also explicitly stated in the game that Team Snagem steals Pokémon from their original trainers, then Cipher corrupts them (and then, in a variety of ways, distributes them.) More so in the first game where you have Cipher stealing a whole damn ship full of pokemon right at the start of the game. It's not like Cipher's just acting out in the open, going 'hey, wanna turn your best friend into a vicious, powerful hellspawn who hates everything?'
So true story. I kept togepi, it had serene grace. Evolved it in Gen 4 and its ability changed to hustle. Didn't think that was possible since in gen 3, togepi had both abilities already
"You Can't Do Both"
Me, willing to replay the game to get both: 😗
Also, lovely take on X & Y, they're not my fav games, but HOLY are they underrated, they're so fun.
Skip ad 2:41
Love your unique takes on niche Pokemon lore. Keep up the great work Droomish. Maybe you could do one analyzing statistically the best baby Pokemon egg to take in Crystal or something about the bug catching contest? Always love to see more XD/colosseum content too.
Solid arguments, you and Capreo got me thinking and I have two points I want to bring up.
1. If Hordel truly loved his Togepi, why did he not try to purify it himself using the Relic Stone? Pokémon Xd, is a sequel to Colosseum and the original method of purifying the shadow Pokémon was using the Relic Stone. Wes and Rui went there dozens of times to purify their Shadow Pokémon. Surely somebody in Agate Village seen the pair and is willing to tell Hordel about this method.
2. Why did he let Togepi become shadowed in the first place? If we look at the majority of the upper ranks of Cipher, we see that Cipher Admins do not Shadow certain Pokémon. Lovrina does not shadow her Roselia. Gorigan keeps his Walrein, Ursaring, Aggron, and Slowking pure. Ardos' Alakazam and Snattle's Quagsire are more examples of admins keeping certain Pokémon unshadowed. Shadow Pokémon are always the newcomers to the party. This makes me think that that the bad guys keep certain Pokémon unshadowed on purpose. They are truly friends with their favorite Pokémon and refuse to let them become shadow Pokémon. If Hordel truly cared about Togepi, then he should have not shadowed him in the first place.
1. Cipher has members everywhere you don't know who you can Trust. So when Hordel hears about a Hero going around STEALING/ SNAGING the Shadow Pokemon and Purifying them he Reaches out to you Hoping you can SAVE/Purify Shadow Togepi.
2. Maybe he felt it'd be STRONGER to Defend itself and him, but Realized his Mistake later.
That Togepi is currently in my Pokémon Sword save file fully trained as a Togekiss. It’s in a whole different universe/timeline at this point💀
Really good video, and that ad read was on the level of PokemonChallenges! I'm so happy I found your channel, keep doing what you're doing and merry christmas
Neither one of them even considered what togepi wanted
im cooking eggs while watching this
I'd probably go with Elekid because Eviolite Togetic is essentially the MVP in my current Supernova Sun playthrough, so I've already made heavy use of it. Doesn't seem to get Heat Wave in Gen 3 either, which is what I like using it for.
@yoshiwoollyworld Seems it does!
Basically its a decision of: Serene Grace Tri Attack Togetic (50% chance of happening) or Elemental Punch Electabuzz, which is an earlier Electabuzz than the Shadow one later, and Hordel's has better coverage too!
I’ve never played XD but I have played Colosseum. I’ve moved every Pokemon from my Colosseum save to Violet or Sword(depending on availability) and the Togetic you get at the end of Colosseum is now a happy Togekiss in Sword. But regarding this situation I’d keep the Togepi just because Fairy is an awesome type. Either way if you move up the Elekid or Togepi you have a really special pokemon
Just LOOK at that bike!
Togetic is good for Orre Colosseum too since you can run Helping Hand EQ spam while Togetic is immune to EQ.
7:56 "LOVERS"??
My favorite pokemon to steal is Kenya the Spearow from HGSS. It's easy enough to do, just take the letter its holding and put it on any other pokemon before delivering it to the sleepy man, but once you pull it off you have an experience-boosted Spearow ready to evolve in a single level, and in Johto it's a monster, pulling down decent attack, moving first against almost everything and learning Fly or Drill Peck, all while pulling in better experience to fight the XP drought that plagues the region. Plus, neither the sleepy man nor the gate guard care about it, they just see it as a random coorior (pun intended), so there's very little reason not to go through with it.
I thought you were going to talk about the sparrow you’re supposed to deliver for a friend but can just keep
One question I have is how much happiness/friendship Zaprong has. While Hordel seems to have good intentions, he still was a member of Cipher.
Now I'm not saying Hordel is a bad guy, I think he really does mean the best. It would have been much more interesting if he traded you an Elekid with 0 friendship or if it were a Shadow Pokemon. This would give the player the impression that Hordel was lying and doesn't have the best intentions. Imagine if that were the case and you could battle him to get the Togepi back.
i'm left to wonder if the Japanese version of the game has any additional hints in the dialog that he wants his Pokémon back when he gives Togepi up, that just didn't get translated along the way.
Please make a video about the TV shows you can watch by interacting with the TVs in Pokémon. And the dexnav shows as well. They pack so much detail into these bits and i know you'd do it justice
I was not prepared for this emotional, moralistic rollercoaster.
So glad you started making videos dude. Best pokemon content I've watched in awhile 🤘
I actually used the Togepi on my XD team, and evolved it into Togetic.
opera gx sucks btw, garbage spyware
Which browser do you use?
@@BDubbyythere’s really no choice besides firefox or some other niche browser. light on ram, not chromium based, but still heavily supported
This is true for almost all browsers hate on it for something unique like the cringe twt acc
Personally, analyzing at the end of this, especially from a gameplay sense, I think giving Hordel back the Togepi in exchange for the Elekid is the right choice. Those coverage moves are no joke and Ice Punch especially really helps out Electabuzz check it's weakness to Ground types, while both it and Fire Punch also help check resistances for Grass and Bug types.
"He didn't directly ask for it back to begin with"
I dunno, I feel "can you purify my pokemon" is pretty cut and dry.
If someone says "can you watch my dog?" (or in this case more like "can you take my dog to the vet?" I suppose) you don't suddenly own the dog.
Your videos are so cozy, keep it up
STANCYZK MENTIONED??? my base happiness is at yet another al time high after this droomish upload
Not gonna lie, that opera browser add was pretty smoothly done 👌
Wow what a cool video
Tedting my ethics was not something i was expecting out of Pokémon LOL
I always imagined that if a pokemon is caught in a ball, it is bound to that ball unless released. Unless, of course, you have special technology like the snag machine in order to circumvent that.
really good video, I like how you tend to look at things that most other RUclipsrs don't even think about it makes your content unique and fresh, easily the best Pokemon RUclipsr in my opinion
Honestly it’s not really worth it in the end since Togepi can learn Tri Attack by TM in SWSH and tutor in LA.
The thing that I really like about this scenario and that I feel like is largely missing from recent Pokemon games is that there's a philosophical and moral stance you can take to justify or condemn either option, it's all just a matter of what school of thought you subscribe to. On one hand, you could say that he wasn't up front about his desire for you to give Togepi back and should have known what he was getting into giving it to a random stranger, and therefore you are justified in keeping it. On the other hand, you could say that the possibility of him having already formed a bond with it makes giving it back the right thing to do regardless of the reward. This moral ambiguity is something I feel like games in general need more of and especially Pokemon games. Nothing like "The bad guy team seemed to be bullies but they were actually just misunderstood!" crap we've been getting lately, the kind of thing that truly gives you a choice to make and then question and come to your own conclusions on whether it was the right one later.
Your humor is so incredibly perfect 😂
That togepi with frustration vs return as one of its moves
Will togepi keep tri attack when moved to home? I'm in the process of cloning and transferring every former shadow pokemon and in game trade from colosseum and XD to home
I noticed you put Kenya on screen at the end. You can keep them if you move the mail onto another mon.
First add read I sat through all year. That's not even hyperbole. Feeling inspired
I just did a playthrough of XD last year and used Togepi on my team in spite of the consequences, he was actually my strongest member by sheer nature of the supportive utility. Serene grace status and helping hand are amazing when you can get full value out of them in a playthrough for once.
I never knew that trade existed, I think I just purified the togipi and left it in the pc after that
Congrats on the collab with OperaGX! Another great video too, 🧡
Mt Silver in Heart gold has a 20% chance of a Steelix encounter in the Moltres chamber but every time I go to Mt Silver I will always encounter Steelix while I have Steelix in my party. I have 2 boxes full of Steelix
For my answer to the question.
I think the Togepi now is better, but I would personally give it back since it doesn’t feel right to hold onto it
you warmed my heart with the soul eater and one piece references!
When i leave my dog at the vet
I dont expect to have to ask the vet for my dog back lol
My workaround for this is I just give the Pokemon back at the very end of the game, before starting a new save file.
Who's to say that togepi didn't get to 0 friendship because of Hortel rather than because he wanted to go back to him?
Easy solution (jokingly though) trade to emerald -> clone the togepi -> trade it back to Hordel -> earn the Elekid. Win win
the idea of a tri attack SG togekiss in gen 4 got me so hype even through we are well into gen 9 comp battling and way beyond the days of HGSS online battles, but i wish i knew this back then 😂
I love this video! You make some strong points, but I'm stealing the Togepi 😎
15:10 For some reason all of my Pokemon transferred up through Black/White replace their original obtained date with the date they were transferred and that makes me sad
you technically can have both Elekid and a Togepi if you send the Togetic to the GBA, breed it, then transfer it back and trade it.
Hearing this togepi explains why when i tried using it in two different playthroughs it reached level 50 before it ever evolved
Always felt bed for just leaving Kenya in the box in gen 2
6:50 "unique, even one of a kind". yes, that is what unique means
Maybe I'm weird, but I've always felt like my Pokemon Team is just that - a team. Once I've added a pokemon to it and used it for a while, I feel bad replacing it. I generally try to decide ahead of time when I play one of the games which 6 pokemon I am going to use, because I know that once my team is full, I won't want to replace any of them. They're my partners, and it would feel cruel to box them just for something "stronger" or "more viable". I honestly don't know what I would do with the Togepi, because once I used it I'm sure I wouldn't want to give it up, but I would also feel bad not returning it to the original owner. Honestly a tough call on that one.
Did not expect a Yakuza joke in a Droomish video, above and beyond adread, they should pay you more then other RUclipsrs.
Ugh, I’m playing though XD and am in this exact predicament now! I’m also doing a Nuzlocke of the game which makes it extra tough. On one hand, Togetic is more defensively oriented and has two immunities, which helps it stay alive. On the other hand my team doesn’t have a way to hit water-types super effectively, and I should be adding Zangoose to my team soon (another normal type). Not to mention the moral dilemma! Haha really not sure what to go with…
As if I couldn't love Droomish more, I find out he likes RGG?
@ 13:38 Is that actually what you think or was that someone elses comment? No shade or judgments just legit curious.
For me, Gen 3 and 5 were the highlights of Pokemon's career and the best ones by far
Well,at least the elekid that the cientist has fire and ice punch, and that's quite rare if you pass it to another game
Is it possible to trade Togepi to Emerald, clone a lot of copies of it, then gave him back the original one, so you’ll still have a copy of it and give him it back so you’ll end up with both Togepi and Elekid? Edit:- Oh, later in the video you did say that this is an option. Sorry, I didn’t reach that far in the video when I made the comment. Was just asking for past knowledge.
Why not use Pokémon XD in the thumbnail if it’s about the Shadow Togepi???