How do Military Police Arrest Soldiers Who Outrank Them?
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- Опубликовано: 3 июн 2023
- When it comes to arresting another soldier who outranks you, you always start with being respectful and tactful until it is no longer an option.
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When it comes to arresting another soldier who outranks you, you always start with being respectful and tactful until it is no longer an option.
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Hopefully, that generally applies to soldiers who don't outrank them too
There's a Lackluster video about this. It's crazy what power does to people. They think the rank can protect them but no one is above the law.
I remember a officer trying to come into the toc that wasn't on my scar. With all respect leave. Get yelled at up and down screaming see my rank, see my rank that means I have a secret clearance you dumb ass. Just respond if you don't know what a scar is you definitely don't have the clearance to enter here sir. Now we done or do I call the MPs? He stomps off. I looked at the SFC with him with pity. He mouthed thank you turn to catch up with the asshole. That officer never got cleared to enter. The NCO did though. Always wondered about that back story.
Too bad civilian LEOs don't apply the same standard.
Uncensored lol “Ryan Mc. Beth gone wild” 😂😂
My dad was a USAF crew chief during the Korean War. He once told Gen. Vandenberg (himself!) to put his cigar out while in the hangar. Not an arrest but under those circumstances it was his duty to do it. Vandenberg immediately did and commended my dad for doing his job. RIP dad, just one of your stories being uploaded into the ether.
Sounds a bit like how the NCO in charge of range safety can berate a senior officer who is breaking the rules if needs be, especially if they put themselves or others in danger.
Hey man it’s not in the ether it’s ever where for all of us to see 😊
Is that when the word "behooves" comes out, or is that a Marine thing?
As in "It behooves the General to not cause an aircraft hangar fire, Sir."
RIP Chief
Awesome story that's pretty cool
So In summary:
1. Ask nicely
2. Ask not so nicely.
3. No longer asking.
Yup
Just like regular cops, ask, tell, make.
forgot the step of just pepper spraying him
@@aaronsmith4940 except civilian cops have a greater tendency to skip to “shoot the guy” because they’re not held accountable to the UCMJ
1. Ask
2. Tell
3. *Peace is no longer an option*
As a young 1LT Officer of the Day, I was called in to deal with an officer who was drunk and disorderly in a make-shift movie theater full of soldiers of all ranks in RVN. I can assure you that I was ill at ease when I discovered he was a much older belligerent CPT. I tried to invite him to quietly step outside with me, hoping to simply remove the problem from the scene. When that failed, I had the lights turned on thinking that would help and he would step outside to avoid further public embarrassment. Failing that, I order him that he was now under arrest and that he would accompany me to the Orderly Room or risk Court Marshall. Finally, his drinking buddies realized the seriousness of the situation and convinced him to avoid violence and go quietly with me. He did. I wrote up the Daily Log Report and reported to the Gp CO when he returned to base. 24 hrs later, the CPT was on a plane to Saigon for reassignment.
Nice, way to handle a stressful situation well.
The easiest way I think lower ranked MPs should think of it is: the people who wrote the UCMJ outrank everyone. You're just enforcing their will.. and at risk of court martial yourself if you don't.
Snitch
Ah the old lemon dance. Where brass gets polished somewhere else instead of being retired.
@@Yakuzachris10 at least it's usually a lot less polished and they don't advance as far and fast as they would have lol
Plus if they have to move away from their parents/extended family as punishment if they're based near them..and get an earful from their wife and kids too if they have em.
Provides some pretty good incentive to not be a jackass.. just not enough for some.
Usually they get busted down a rank or two too
@@Newb_Killer I see you've got no balls and always bow to peer pressure.
There are certainly times to go along, but there are also times to put your personal feelings away and do the damned job. Ideally, do it well and in a manner you can be proud of.
By the sound of it Antone was called in to do his job. He did it - and presumably did it well.
He's not the one that called the MPs. He's the one that got called.
And the captain was the one that was being a d*ckhead.
My GF's dad was a counter-intelligence officer in the Polish military way back when. He told me this story: One day he got a tip that one of the colonels was regularly having parties at his office with hookers, alcohol, drugs, the whole shabang. He got the order from his superior to quietly raid one of those parties and bring him in for questioning without making a scene. He was an LT at the time so he was really apprehensive about the idea of arresting someone who significantly outranked him, but his superior reassured him that ranks didn't matter in that situation. So he took a few MPs with him in the middle of the night, and sure enough the COL was having a couple of civilian friends and a bunch of hookers over. They knock on the door and say that they brought more alcohol. Sure enough someone opens the door and they storm in. They ask him politely three times to come quietly, but he refuses, trying to pull rank. Then they try to gently nudge him out the door but he becomes combative, so the LT loses temper and clocks him in the face breaking his nose, tackles him to the floor and says: "If any one of those hookers turn out to be a spy you'll be charged with treason and executed, so you can either come quietly or I'll shoot you right now." It was a bluff of course, the capital punishment for treason was repealed long before that, but it worked. The COL appologised and calmed down, and they quietly brought him and the rest of the party-goers in. Next morning he submitted the report to his superior fully expecting to be court-martialled, but his superior just said "There's a mistake in your report. It says here that you punched him in the face to force compliance, but all the MPs that were with you said he fell over and broke his nose on the door frame. Correct it and resubmit it. Otherwise good job."
The party-boy COL never faced any charges, but was instead quietly forced into early retirement.
Kinda ruins the message in the story about integrity and following just rules when they conspire to lie about an assault
@@fabe61it's not a lie, he just misremembers the story, and they have the sworn statements to prove it
@@fabe61it’s what he deserved was an assault he was lucky he wasn’t shot against the wall on charges of treason 🤷🏻🤷🏻
He should never have punched his face and broke his nose . I hope these days they receive better training. Bad blood builds up over all these little and big injustices in society and got too many guns floating around in America.
@@philip5940 but he didnt punch him and this isnt Ameroca
Marine MPs call it ATM. Ask, Tell, Make. You show all due respect according to rank, but you enforce the regs, period. Doesn’t matter if it’s a PFC or the CMC.
It’s a tough job.
CMC 😘
I am the cmc.
There are other things also called ATM that marines are known to engage in
Blue falcon screeches!!!
Not a military rank, but my dad told me about the time he had to yell at a Saudi Prince.
He worked in Saudi Arabia, in aeroplane maintenance and calibration. His overseer/supervisor/site director was Saudi, and giving a tour of the facilities to a Saudi prince. Dad is working in his lab, boss and the prince come in. He sees the prince is smoking (or maybe he was lighting up a cigarette?). Naturally, Dad yells at them to get out and put out the cigarrete.
The prince is obviously unused to being told what to do, certainly never been yelled at by an inferior. Boss takes the prince back out, smooths over the whole situation. Prince comes back in and thanks my dad, because the whole lab is full of solvents, fuel samples and so on.
Smoking could have made a VERY bad situation...
I think any sensible person who is told their actions could have blown themselves up with others, would be glad to have been kept safe from their own ignorance of the situation.
It’s just self preservation. The person who gets mad despite realizing this, well they are a true fool.
Damn. How long did your dad work there?
@@ben6591 I'm not actually sure how long he worked over there. A few years for sure. I'm pretty sure his last year there would have been 1988 or '89 though.
@@RaggedsEdge unfortunately, majority would rather be harmed then be told what's wrong with them.
I'm referring to US Military experience, not Saudi Experience.
My mate is a officer in the Met Police (London), once they arrested a squaddie on leave for drunk and disorderly, no big deal, they called the MPs to come pick him up, he arrives and asks for a min to talk to the soilder, they then see him beating the snot out of the soilder on cctv, then they arriested the MP and had to again call the MPs to come collect the squaddie and their officer who was now being charged for assult
Jesus the legendarny MP chain.
What happens when we run out of MPs?
@@alternativewalls4988 but there are so many
@@alternativewalls4988 they are unstoppable
@@alternativewalls4988 my understanding was a Sargent with an actual brain arrived and defused the situation, charges were dropped against the MP on the understanding that steps would be taken within the service, him putting them in that position wouldn't go down well for him and the Met police train them in actual policing so they don't like to be shown up like that
I was an MP and later a CID agent. I learned quickly to tell officers, especially colonels that they should come with me and sort things out with someone in charge rather than deal with someone like me. That left them “in charge.”
That's a smart way to get things done
Used that tactic a few times as an MP. Stopped using this when a duty officer stood face to face with her spouse. After that, all duty officers were called to the scene. The more witnesses, the better.
I know this is a little late, and there’s probably some things you can’t answer aswell, but I plan on commissioning and going MP route in the future, should I do that, how would I go about trying to go for something like CID? Í haven’t found all that much information about it but something like that would really make the resume blossom for some 3 letter agencies down the line when I retire
@@jollthebro Unfortunately, the Army decided to civilianize CID like NCIS. I don’t believe there will be any soldiers left once the current agents retire or are moved MP investigations which handles petty crimes. Too bad. I really liked CID for 18 years.
@@jeffdittrich6778 I see, thank you for the quick answer, and of course thank you for your service.
During an arrest of a drunk major-generals the pharses "do you know who i am!?" And "I'll end your fucking career for this!!" Are to be expected..
But all MPs should be reassured by the distance laughter of the provost marshal.
I'm sorry not from military, but is provost Marshall in charge of MP career?
@@thegodfatherplays.3907 mmmmm I'm working bit on logic and history here, but the Provost Marshal, as I first heard during the Napoleonic wars, was in charge of dishing out punishments for rule brakers, such as looters, rapists and such. I think the Provost marshal is in charge of the MPs, but me thinks the honorable marshal will be more preoccupied with the high rank officer bringing disgrace to the officerly.
Curtis E. Lemay was an exception to that rule, cross him (even if you were in the right) and he would end your career. My grandfather told me a story of when he was assigned to Orly Field in Paris France after WW-2 where a young Air Policeman pulled over Lemay's staff car for speeding cited the driver while Lemay's wife fumed in the back seat. Lemay had that young AP busted down in rank. When Lemay rotated back to the states, he had the French antiques that his wife bought flown back on a USAF MATS Transport. Lemay & his wife were SO LOVED in the USAF that somewhere over the Atlantic, the crew INTENTIONALLY developed engine troubles and dumped the antiques into the ocean.
"Do you know who I am!"
"No, Sir. Excuse me, does anyone here know who this man is? He forgot." 😂
@@thegodfatherplays.3907 the Provost Marshal on a given U.S. Army installation is the equivalent to a civilian police chief. They are responsible for the personnel who conduct law enforcement operations. They do not impose disciplinary measures on offending parties, that is the responsibility of the individual soldier's command authority or the military court system depending on severity of offense.
Where I’m from we have a saying. Guard outranks everyone, as in the person who stands guard at a gate or similar entrance to a military area can stop and arrest whoever they want to. A friend of mine exercised that saying when he put down and arrested a general trying to enter the area he was guarding. It all happened on an exercise. General wanted to inspect the different posts and other places but had not announced this before he got to the gate my friend guarded. My friend sees his car and asks him to stop which the general does. My friend who doesn’t recognise the general and hasn’t been told that a general would be coming through tells him that he will have to wait a little, however this should not be a problem as a bench is available so that he can sit while he waits. Problem is though that general does not want to sit and wait and would rather get through immediately. He thus announces that he is a general and commands friend to let him through. Friend kindly tells him that he indeed is not blind and that even if he had twice the amount of stars he still wouldn’t be let through without clearing it through the proper channels but that he is welcome to wait on before mentioned bench until this is sorted out. General does in no way agree with this and proceeds to walk through the gate area however as soon as he crosses the boom friend quickly kicks his legs together and general faceplants the quite muddy ground making a noice later described as being a legendary mix of confusion, anger and wet muddy misery. He is then handcuffed, arrested and put in a locked room. After some time stuff is sorted out and exercise leader and a driver comes to pick up our poor general. Both are dying from laughter when they see him covered in mud from top to toe and sporting the most embarrassed sad expression a man could have. Friend is never reprimanded and actually receives a letter from said general a week or two later praising him for a good laugh and the great work he did.
I mean, if everyone could enter in a military base because they outrank the guard, the guard would not be really efficient, disguises exist ^^'
Reading this gave me an idea for a phrase for this situation: "Sir, If you step through that gate you'll have put me in a position where I have to either do my duty and strike a superior officer, or NOT do my duty and NOT strike a superior officer. Would you like to think about which of those I'm likely to prefer?"
Yeah i was on a field op once standing ECP and some range control LtCol came out and wanted to inspect our PB and we had no clue who he was so we refused. He threw a huge fit and after it had some time our regiment commander came over and told him to kick rocks. He left and ranted about getting our op shut down, which didnt happen ofc.
My favorite anecdote in this genre is from WWII, when the highest level of planning for the Normandy invasion was codenamed Bigot.
At one point, the King himself was touring one of the ships or bases involved in the preparation, and a sentry refused him entry to a certain room.
The King was apparently moderately surprised and displeased, but the sentry held firm.
When a senior officer with appropriate clearance told the sentry that yes, he could allow the King of England into the planning room for British Invasion of German Occupied Territory, the sentry is reported to have responded, "I'm sorry Sir, I didn't know he was a Bigot!"
@@bower31 They drill into you to always follow orders, but he's mad that you're following orders XD
Talking about US MPs. During WW2, my Dad was 12 years old,and in Auckland City come on evening. Auckland had 32 000 US Marines stationed about it while the bulk of the Kiwi army was 8000 miles away fighting in the Desert. The US Marine "Snowdrops" ( as they were called here, for their white lids, gloves and armbands ) had authority over anyone in Uniform, including Kiwi service people, by act of Parliament.
Dad saw two slightly drunk US Marines approached by a Kiwi Policeman for cursing in public, he said they were being respectful, but four Kiwi sailors, quite drunk got involved, and some punches were thrown, the Policeman, realising it was too much for him, reached for his whistle.
Before he could blow it, a jeep with two MPs flashed around the street corner, shot across in front of a tram, slammed to a halt and as it did Dad said "Two MPs flew through the air and took the whole group of soldiers off their feet like skittles. They all popped to their feet, all six turned against the MP's, who laid them all down flat in seconds, without losing their helmets, saying a word, or even being struck, it seemed.
Dad was standing close enough to see the look of shock on the Constables face, and his "My word !".
He told me the most astonishing thing was the faces on the MP's never changed their expression, which wasn't aggressive, just determined. And when they had stacked the handcuffed men in the jeep, without caring which was where, the driver nodded to the Constable, the other one sat on the side of the jeep and held the top of the stack firm, and they drove carefully down to the Military Police Station at the Quay, without reacting to anything the crowd said by so much as a glance.
The first time he told me that story, was after we watched a Clint Eastwood film where he fights in a bar fight, out numbered, and wins without losing his cowboy hat. "Well, I have seen that actually done once !".
That’s kickass
It’s pretty easy to take out drunk people if you’re sober.
That felt like a Jack Reacher story. Great books
@@blindbrad4719 They are good books. The plot is usually interesting, and the characters are quite good, and of course the action is exciting.
I have never been published, but I have spent 40 years writing, both for my own pleasure and commercially.And I have told that story before to people when the topic of the US Marine Corp being here has come up.
Yeah I jump on them as soon as they come out on Audible. I'm blind so there's a bit of a delay from the actual release date 😔. I'm glad you find enjoyment in writing, I've been told to give it a go with everything I've been through The last 10 years, but I'm much more interested in reading about someone else's imagination rather than reliving a pretty painful time, which will undoubtedly be missing quite a bit and just a little disjointed considering everything LOL.
She forgot the most important part..."Don't confuse your rank with my authority!" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This is true...but the trick is to do it with tact and respect.
@@Trick37MP unless the higher up is being an absolute dick. I've only had to use that line once in my time.
@@AhbaYah5 True. I had to when arresting a general for dui. Also had to have the MP duty officer on site...in my day.
@@Trick37MPbut isn't the general the highest rank? Who's gonna give you the authority to do that?
@@feline2322 As a Military Policeman, i had the authority to arrest any military member for any crime, as well any civilian, on the base. This is a rare instance where authority overcomes rank.
Like was said by someone else, the shift MP duty officer usually had to be on scene for certain higher ranks. Also, once arrested, the Provost Marshal would ariive at the station.
When I was a young PFC, I went to work one morning a tad bit hung over, wearing my best "I REALLY need to do laundry" uniform.
My bosses didn't really care, we were an out of the way office hardly anyone even knew about.
Until the radios quit and the base lost most all of its Long Distance Phone Service.
But, today was the day a Full Bird Colonel showed up, and demanded the dog and pony show. My bosses gave him the front end portion, then brought him back to see the pretty electronics with all the blinking lights.
I was in the middle of an outage on one of the voice telephone lines we carried. It was "Our circuit," so I had operational control of coordinating the troubleshooting and repair. It was also a rather High Priority Circuit. As in, if it's out for 10 minutes, the Pentagon is calling US.
As I am doing so, the Colonel is quizzing me about this and that and the other things. I am doing my best to answer him as I also spoke with my Distant End, the first radio in line that I actually connect to, to test signal levels there and that kind of stuff.
He snaps at me and says, "Damn it, PRIVATE, stand at attention facing me, when I speak to you!"
So, I spun around, snapped to attention, and said, "Sir, with all due respect to your rank, position, and station, you are interfering with the duties of a Defense Communications System Operator during during a high priority outage. Please leave my facility NOW, I have work to do."
He tried to get huffy, and my bosses, an SFC and an SP5, grabbed him by the elbows and guided him to the door.
And in Worms, the Headquarters for the 5th SIgnal Command, had heard the entire thing over the orderwire system, or the Duty Officer had. Same thing.
The story was told to me by a "Rather High Ranking NCO" that he went to the 5th Signal CO ( A Star) to complain. And as he started, the CO interrupted and said words to the effect of, "Colonel, let me ask you a question before you go any further. And I want you to ponder the question carefully before you answer.
"The question is, are you telling me this on the record, or off?"
The Commander of 5th Signal had already heard the story from the Op Center's Duty Officer. Our Orderwire System, a phone line we used as a Walkie Talkie between all stations, had open microphones.
Anyway, the moral of the story, for those who made it this far is:
"It isn't always who you ARE. It's quite often WHAT YOU'RE DOING!"
There's also a Punch Line. When everything had calmed down and we waited for the next alligator to hatch, The SP5 said he didn't believe I had the balls to talk to a Colonel like that.
And I countered with, "I can't believe I had to. By the way, you DID check that little runt on the access list, didn't you?"
Both bosses turned and looked at each other with the "Ook" face... And then looked.
He was, but still...
Lol
Makes for a nice story.
And yeah, communications matter.
Nice! 👍
I am amazed that as many people read through that as have.
@Time Surfer you should see my comments lol
Especially when sh*t gets political. 🙃
"Its WHAT Your doing" - or seem to do, as with the annoyed face excursion and the all-important clipboard.
Serving in the USAF Security Police (now called Security Forces) whenever we were performing our duties out in the public space, we were always carrying the rank of the highest ranking officer on base despite what our actual ranks were. So when we gave an order or investigated some incident, whomever the officer was involved, he or she must behave as if they were dealing with a superior.
Something similar in Italy: the Carabinieri are a gendarmerie + elite shock infantry + MPs for all the other branches, all in one. They have different uniforms, are saluted by other enlisted even if they themselves are enlisted, and when on MP duty they outrank whomever they're arresting or challenging. Some details might have changed though, it has been a while since my dad got out, but the bulk should remain true.
Incorrect.
@@therealrobinc wow, what a constructive and insightful comment
I think officer wives were more of a hassle than the officers themselves. And the higher the officer the worst the wife.
they're Karen's right?
I'm missus Colonel blah blah blah. Yep been there. But another occasion , a captains wife got mad at me because i demanded I.d. She went home, called her husband, crying, having a hissy fit. He phoned me at the front gate to ask what happened. I told him, and explained that I try to be the same with everybody. He understood, apologized for his wife's behavior. He told her to come back to me and apologize, which she did.
yep. we use to say that they use their husbands rank better then their husbands.😂😂😂😂😂😂
Say it after me, class! "You are not your spouse's rank!"
Dependopodomus are the worst
While practicing my career in the USAF has a Law Enforcement Specialist ( E-6 Master Rating ). While on duty has a Flt Sgt I and my fellow patrol partner observed a Captain exit the officers Club that was obviously under the influence. I Took action to prevent him from driving. Which turned into a cluster " F". This officer reminded me that I was a NCO and he was Gentleman ! An Officer! A fighter pilot. I did my best to get him to give up his keys. I offered to go into the Officers Club to get another officer drive him home. This officer wouldn't have any thing to do with any assistance and demand that I let him go or he would have my five stripes. I relinquished his keys and let him depart for base housing. I notified CSC/ LE desk to contact the local law enforcement departments that our base had a possible DUI that made it off base and was heading to housing. State Police caught up and stopped this officer and gentleman two miles from the base. BAT was twice the legal limit. I did what needed to be done. This pilot lost his flight status and flew a desk for six months and I continued on.
As i heard from the lord donut operator, the three steps in policing: ask, tell, make
Nice! All Heil lord donut operator
...oh, God. That phrase actually works.
"the lord donut operator"
F*ck me, the internet does such strange things.
Rank isn't everything. One of the greatest things I've seen was an Army E-7 chewing out a Marine O-6 in Iraq. We were under a rocket attack at Camp Liberty (leaving the Al Faw Palace, which was Corps HQ), and I was with some gate guards (who were Tongan Royal Marines) in a shelter when the Colonel drove up insisting that they open the gate for him. They responded that they weren't leaving the shelter until the all clear. The Colonel got real angry and started yelling. Then the Tongan guards radioed to their NCOIC, who left his safe location to deal with it. He wasn't very respectful, and it was great fun to watch.
I remember something like "you are putting your life in danger, their life in danger, and MY LIFE in danger!" Never mess with an NCO on their turf. And you just know he earned a great deal of respect from those Tongan gate guards that day.
cool story... but you lost the war
@Juan Shaft Patel Did you serve?
@@heartofgold5159 No, I was a civilian contractor. You could say I was in it for the money, which wouldn't be completely wrong.
@@heartofgold5159 yes and we lost
@@stephenwilhelm at least yo got paid well
MP: don’t confuse my rank with my authority. MP’s literally have the authority of the Provost Marshal General delegated to them to carry out their mission. That’s the first and foremost thing to remember when coming in contact with an MP of ANY rank. It behooves you to remember from where their authority is derived. Chances are you probably don’t outrank the current Major General who reports directly to the Chief of Staff of the United States Army. It’s not just a trite Military saying but is literally a legitimate warning when an MP gives you the fair warning to not confuse his/her rank with his/her authority, it’s a legitimate warning that would be prudent to consider and check yourself. Of course that doesn’t mean an MP can abuse this delegated authority, when I was an MP I was very careful to never abuse any authority because it will definitely come back to bite you guaranteed and that just wasn’t my way. I was mostly “combat/anti-terrorist, etc MP” and only did some garrison MP assignments and treated people the way that I would have wanted to be treated, no regrets and no enemies (once they sobered up). I have a clear conscience. The only stuff I don’t have a clear conscience about is some missions while in Afghanistan and Iraq and other countries, we were operating too much in the gray and our ROE was pretty much do whatever especially in the beginning of Afghanistan and Iraq, also treatment of detainees, they should have never had us guarding the same detainees that we were just in a firefight with the month or so before (we did mission rotations, guarding the PUC’s/Detainees was considered a “down” rotation because we were in from the elements and firefights and just worked in the prison and had access to our tents to sleep in at night, access to a phone and a computer (notice I said a as in one, only one back then) and warm meals prepared by Army cooks then later by contractors as the post was built up and improved. Having us Guard the detainees that we captured or assisted in capturing and had fought with was a huge blunder by the brass, but, back then there weren’t enough soldiers to go around, we would travel all over those countries via airplane and helicopter because of the lack of personnel, and they had us doing missions that were really never meant for our MOS. Also, the CIA, MIA, and other OGA’s basically commanded us and made the chain-of-command a meaningless joke and nightmare which caused lots of problems in Bagram and in Abu Ghraib and other places, most of which the public will never know about.
"I'm 'asking' out of politeness, but let's be real, this isn't actually an option."
My favorite MP story was the female MP who became a legend with the enlisted on our post. She pulled over a Marine general for speeding on post, and the general tried the "Do you know who I am?" deal. Her response? "Well, Oorah sir, but you're still getting a ticket." Yes, she got reprimanded by her CO for being disrespectful, but all the enlisted on our (Army) post thought it was hysterical.
I was an MP in Germany. Back then, we didn't arrest anyone; we apprehended them. Only actual field grade officers and above could arrest someone. It's just legalese.
I apprehended our community Sergeant Major for suspicion* of drunk and disorderly conduct. This was in the NCO's Club. He was extremely intoxicated, and very belligerent. He refused multiple offers to escort him to his quarters or to cooperate in any way at all.
*Patrol MPs were only allowed to apprehend on suspicion of something. The responsable Provost Marshal had to decide which charges would be officially prosecuted, if at all.
As senior patrolman (SP-4) I informed community Sergeant Major that I was apprehending him, took him by the arm and moved him to a location outside the view of the general public, and instructed my junior partner to insure that no person would approach our location. I then, under protest and threats, I searched the Sergeant Major and placed him in handcuffs for transportation in your patrol vehicle to the community MP Station.
Upon arrival to the MP station, our desk sergeant commended my for doing a proper apprehension and not bowing to any pressure the Sergeant Major may have threatened.
The next day, however. I was ordered to appear to the community commander, a Leutnant colonel, who proceeded to try to claim that I had acted imprudently and overstepped my authority. I explained the facts to him multiple time, each time he interjected with something along the lines of, "but he's the community Sergeant Major". Finally I said, if he had at any time ACTED like the community Sergeant Major, I never would have apprehended him, after which the Lt. Col. bitched again some more and then turned around and dismissed my, not even having the respect to accept my solute upon dismissal.
This was the very last straw for me deciding to leave the army, and I had been offered OCS multiple time during my years in the army.
sounds like a very shitty officer. very unprofessional
As a young LT I was given the opportunity to fly against a Maj who flew a Buff in Nam. He was arrogant as all hell and felt insulted to have to fly against a lowly LT. My flight commander ensured him it would be a great sortie. After the Maj left for preflight, Rock made sure I understood to give him what he wanted. And winked.
At the time, my ego and own arrogance would have made Maverick look like a timid sheep. Some even said they would show up in the flight room 10 minutes before I did. So we were on.
Once out in the area, as flight lead, I kicked him out to close trail for some warm up. “GD lieutenant, I came to fly and not pussy around,” came over the radio. My response was “Roger that, Fight’s On”. I then rolled a hard 135 degrees into a 7g descending spiral.” Usually not a great idea to squander smash but felt he wasn’t prepared or conditioned for it. I lived at 6 and 7 g.
During the descent his left knee was pushed to The left and pressed his thumb against the mic button on the throttle. (Against our ROE as the throttle was to be hands off.) Anyway, he now had a hot mic and was broadcasting his breathing difficulties trying to perform the M-1 maneuver to not GLOC. I timed his breathing and went from +7 to -3 g while rolling to wings level and promptly went back to +7, unloaded and sliced back right behind him as he was trying to climb.
I tucked in under his burner cans in close trail and hung in as he tried to find me. No joy on that.
Next was the radio call, “Chop23 Lead, Two’s lost site.” To which i dropped back and then into position replying, “Two, Check 6. Guns, asshole”. Yes, just like that.
“Two’s returning to base.”
I executed a nice victory roll and played around in the area for about an hour for the flight time.
When I finally RTB my crew chief was electric and there was some big excitement on the ramp. No one said a word.
As I passed by the SOF desk I was informed the Squadron Commander wanted to see me immediately in his office.
When I got to his office and reported, I noticed my flight commander was already there and the Major was fuming in a corner. For the next ten minutes at the position of attention I was read the riot act on proper military decorum and to never call a major an asshole over the radio.
The squadron commander, a LtCol, then spoke to the major and confirmed we were good. The major, satisfied, left the room.
Me, still at attention, was then met with the biggest smiles and compliments from the senior officers in the room (which also included the Wing Commander who I hadn’t noticed before). A bottle of Jack Black appeared with a round of toasts to “Mission Accomplished” and a hearty “Hymn” for the departed major.
After some more pats on the back and a promise of a steak dinner, it was time to leave. I started to report when the Wing Commander, with a sly grin and a wink, reminded me to not call a major an asshole and told the Squadron Commander to make sure I was on the schedule to fly with him the next time he came down to the line. He also said he would have given anything to have heard that because he agreed with me, the major was a big headed asshole.
Many great flights after that with a follow on assignment to A-10s.
… “ So there I was 20,000 ft and … “ the saga continues. Of course using both hands.
and
“Deceased insect” Those now on the ground with arms and feet in the air know the drill.
The last of you still standing, owe us all a round of drinks 🫡
@@Picla_Peremohy Great story! What's a "Buff" tho?
@@-0rbital-
B-52
Reminds me of the US Army's General Orders, the fourth in particular. 4th General order, "I will walk my post from flank to flank and not take guff from any rank." (Not a real one, but very applicable)
If you're an officer acting up and an enlisted MP has to sort you out. Better believe they're gonna see you as every brass that's pissed them the hell off in their military career
I was up at KI Sawyer AFB and watched a Sr. Airman put a bird colonel and the tour his was leading face down on the ramp. When the bird tried to get back up to argue. The airman locked and loaded on his ass.
The Col was leading an unauthorized tour right down the F-106 alert ramp. Emphasis on was. Which also soon applied to his AF career.
I really respected the dedication our Security Police showed at KI. At the time, KI was home of the 410th Bomb Wing and I think it was the 86th (?) Tac Fighter Wing guarding our northern border.
Someone please correct me on the tac fighter wing if 40+ years of aging has hurt my memory.
I was a regular Army Military Policeman on Ft. Bliss, Ft. Clayton, Panama and Hanau, FRG. I was respectful in dealing with all senior paygrades but never niice. Retired US ICE agent. Have a bloody nice day...
There was a saying amongst 95Bs, "you are not doing your job unless someone is bitchin."
Original Mud Puppies were known as 95B. 31Bs are glorified security guards. The ASVAB was lowered at MEPS for MPs shortly after 9/11. What a bloody joke the MP Corps has turned out to be.
I had very intellectual conversations with my Privates during the late 80s.
I’m my 8 years of service as a Army MP I had to arrest my fair share of those that outranked me. At Ft Bliss I was a PFC arrest a CSM for DUI. Most were enlisted and I don’t remember any officers. As enlisted arresting an officer required the MP on call officer to get involved so it became quite an ordeal when it happened.
I got to cosplay as a "Colonel" with my MP buddies for some of their recert and they all did the same steps, the script was basically: "Sir, your rank at this time does not and will not userp my authority. You have broken both military and civilian law and you will be held to account. Please maintain your military decorum and respect for the United States Army. I don't wish to place you in handcuffs and if you cooperate then it will not be necessary"
"I used the minimum amount of force I deemed necessary to complete the arrest."
“Sir you shot the guy 20 times”
@@poseidon808 "he was still twitching after 19 bullets"
@@animo9050 “use of force justified”
"Sir, please get down on the ground with your hands on your head....Sir!!"
As a last resort you tell them do not confuse your rank with my authority, that really makes them turn red and steam.
That's the opposite of what you want to do for getting the issue resolved.
@@westrim sometimes there's a party to the conflict who's wrong and a party who's correct. It's factually true and invokes the responsibility of the person being ordered by the lesser rank
Absolutely. This both got me some flak and respect. When an officer was about to put his troops in a situation that would have got most of them killed. He demanded that he move into and set up camp on a artillery and aircraft live fire range in the inpact area. With a major multiple air and artillery strike due within the hour. I said. “Sir when faced with stupidity on this level I have only two options. Salute or shoot!”
“Sir today you will not be receiving a salute!” Then showing the Warrant Officer the range schedule for the day. And informing range control of the situation. Another time I was passing a message from my CO to the mortar officer about Brigade staff would be at Tac HQ observing the live fire from his mortar teams. I noticed the figures of indicating a low angle track for the rounds. He had not allowed for terrain Tac HQ was on a high ridge with dense tall trees around it. This was back before computers were in common use. The double check was. Bearing. Fire point. Height above sea level. Impact point height above sea level. Straight edge on the map mark off all high points on the terrain between the two points. Then cross check the parabolic path of the rounds with the ground trace. Obviously wind is also a factor. A low angle solution would have had the rounds hit the trees above Tac HQ. Check Check Check. Just in time!
@@derryohalloran Not necessarily. A commissioned or warrant officer can only be placed under arrest by an order of a commanding officer of a unit. That authority cannot be delegated to anyone else.
@@afcgeo882 fair enough, as a general rule though I think at that point the person attempting the arrest is making a critical error and would be wrong to do it anyway
Works in grocery stores too. "Excuse me, you will have to go to the back of the line." He shrugs. I repeat, "I don't ask nice, twice!!". He walked 15 feet to the back of the line. Lot's of grins behind me.
Unfortunately, retail workers seems to be forced to stay at step 1 in most shops ^^'
I remember two MPs politely insisting to about a dozen members of my platoon to immediately cease their participation in a naked conga line. They were politely asked to either join in or fuck off. They went for the second option. 🤣 Belizean rum has a lot to answer for lol.
When it came to detaining or arresting anyone I always went by the Roadhouse Rule:
Be nice until it's time to not be nice.
So... Ask, Tell, Make?
Wtf her rank is way off center on her pc
I couldn't stop staring at it lol
And too high
1. They will ask you
2. They will tell you
3. They will make you
Ask, tell, make
Funny, we don't arrest. We apprehend.
@@duffelbagdrag Show Me
I was sent to a "riot" while stationed on Okinawa. A Marine Squadron was tearing up our BOQ at Kadena AB. The Base Commander told me to apprehend the Commander of the Squadron and bring him in. The Major told me I could not apprehend him...I told him that was not true and not the situation. He had two choices: the easy way, or the hard way. He asked what those were. I said the easy way was to get in my patrol vehicle, and I would drive him to the Base Commander. He asked what the hard way was...I pointed to two of my Senior Airmen (both over 6'!"" and I said: 'Sir you see those two airmen? They haven't slammed an officer this week yet..." He replied, "I'll take the easy way"
Damn I’ve never seen a NCO with a busted ass PC like that.
had to look to see if someone made this point this NCO needs some training on how to properly put rank on a PC........
Back in the 90:s when l was a medic doing basic training, our platoon was tasked with manning the checkpoints during a live fire exercise. A Major from one of the other companies decided to do an impromptu check to see if we would do a good job, the Major was a 6'3" and 250lbs pure muscled guy, and pretty intimidating to a young conscript. But when he tried to muscle through, the rest of the squad who were in reserve had already been discreetly alerted through a few key phrases we had decided on in case the up front guys needed help. So while me and my mate kept his attention, the rest of the squad had snuck around and wolf packed the Major from behind, and had him on the ground and restrained before he got a chance to do much about it. Even our dour captain laughed before telling us to stand down when he saw the big Major down and restrained.
We ended up as the weirdest medic platoon in the regiment, with the most marksman medals outside the pure rifle platoons, staged ambushes on ourselves for fun, got high praise from the Finnish special forces, and made IED:s out of paté tins (~10-30ft radius of paté everywhere 😅) Good times
1 Ask nicely
2 Ask formally
3 NO longer asking
4 STOP RESISTING STOP RESISTING
5 *turns body cam off *
Awesome professional and courteous
she hit it right on the nail....I'm a former mp 340th mp Co and that's exactly how it goes
PFC: "you're under arrest General"
GEN: "the hell I am"
I guess the US Forces have a similar law but in the German Bundeswehr has §3 VorgV. During special assignments you outrank everybody else, as long it concerns your Special task. This way a Private on Guard duty can give certain orders to a General. Same is for MP when doing their Police work. Thus they outrank them automatically.
You don’t outrank anyone here. It’s not a matter of rank.
For us, it's authority, not rank...Brother/Sister Feldjaeger. 😊
PS---Ich war in Deutschland von 1990 bis 2005, und 2006 bis 2016 stationiert....Mainz, Wurzburg und Spangdahlem...als MP und als Armee Beamter. 😊
@@afcgeo882 maybe something gets lost in translation.
Certain stuff makes you the superior of somebody. Rank is one of them, special tasks like MPs or Medics are others.
@@Herdatec None of that makes you superior in the US military. A sergeant is a sergeant and a major is a major. It doesn’t matter what their occupational skills are.
@@afcgeo882 NOT TRUE!!! ....Reread some of the replies on this issue!!!! Authority, when properly applied, "outranks" ALL ranks for good order and discipline of the Army in order to deal with immediate situations.
I'm a retired military police officer.
The correct answer is that your authority as an MP derives not from your rank but is delegated to you by the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
She looks like Frances Neagley.
“You do not mess with the special investigators!”
MP’s do not have arrest authority, they detain.
I was a USAF Security Policeman for ten years 1987-1997. It is an apprehension, not an arrest. Arrest is something done to commissioned officers. She should have explained that.
😊 They're m p's it's literally their job description to arrest soldiers of all rights
As a young probationary Constable I was challenged by Mr “I’m ever so important” who demanded to know where my authority came from.
I took off my hat and pointed to the crown on the helmet plate.
He shut up after that.
“Ask, tell, make” was the way this was explained to me when I started out in LE years ago. If you can be calm and polite but authoritative at the same time the vast majority of people will comply at the “ask” stage and will not resist arrest.
Loving the Ireland hat
Erin go bragh
Ask, tell, make! My first ticket I ever wrote as an MP was a SGM for improper display of a license plate. I was so nervous, but he was so chill. Later on in my career working at Hood and Carson I found that nothing is more dangerous than a drunken Soldier in the barracks lol!
A few generals and colonels liked to try and "i dont need to identify anything soldier" their way through my dad's gate back in the day. Apparently they enjoyed seeing if the couple of enlisted manning the gate actually had the balls to point the MG the the officer and tell him to step out of the car. They also enjoyed the later visits, at which they would of course pass through as recognized.
Safety first !
Annand you're dead. War isnt safe
My dad actually did that for his first 6 years. Never would i have thought MPs were their own thing
MPs are like the police of the police. Quite the morally demanding position
@@succulentravioli954 this comment feels ai generated
They’re not their own thing.
In the worlds of Colonel Quaritch: “I’ll be nice, once… then I won’t”
Remember folks, cops have three steps: Ask, tell, and make. If they've already asked you to do something, and they've told you to do something, you're one smart answer away from a broken car window and some very spicy eyeballs.
Not if I say “I’m not resisting” while actively (or passively) resisting, we all know that if I punch a cop while saying “I’m not resisting” then it was not resisting arrest
I never thought of this, but the rules, especially safety rules, apply to everyone!
How about center the rank on your PC sarge.
Rank on her PC is more crooked than a politician
In summary. No one is getting arrested unless she has a man with her
Function always exceeds rank.... but politeness and diplomacy is a plus in any circumstances, and it goes both ways.
“Ask. Tell. Make” and never let them confuse their rank with your authority
Nice to see the Irish colours 😎
Resort to police brutality #1 when arresting officers.
As an MP my stock answer was ‘you’re confusing your rank with my authority’. It worked for everyone from a Sergeant Major to a Colonel that I told that to. It was more often a butter bar ring knocker that didn’t want to listen. Cuffs fit them the same as they fit the 3 MP’s I arrested.
When I was an MP we were told that an MP carries the authority of the Post Commanding General. So the PCG is typically the only person on post an MP is not allowed to apprehend on their own authority. If a higher ranking general or elected official who is in your chain of command, like the President or the Secretary of Defense is visiting, they are also above your authority to apprehend without the permission of the Provost Martial or someone above him.
An MP has no law enforcement powers, or extra powers of apprehension when they're off duty, than any other soldier.
❤️✌️
Sergeant, atleast act like you enjoy the uniform. Fix your rank. Why is it so off centered. This bugs me
Looks fine
@@Firefighter_303 her PC
@@AndrewHwu wow. I was really out of it when I watched to miss that
Ask, tell, make. Very professional.
Military police are the ULTIMATE Blue Falcons. Special place in hell for cops and judges.
It's literally their job to apprehend you for screwing up, you're the one who screwed up, be it shoplifting, DUI, assaults, or other serious crimes. YOU are the one who committed them. You blue falconed yourself if you found yourself in that situation. You only have yourself to blame for blue falconing yourself, and there's a special place in hell for you if you seriously think otherwise. Saying that is seriously immature and says a lot about you, your morals, and your commitment to service.
Non deployed female MP is the perfect example
I smoked the piss out of an E-4 that tried to arrest me a year later for flanking his weapon towards the wrong area during a deployment. His eyes opened as he remembered me, for double parking with a deuce and a half back home
When an MP I used to run with would get heckled by an unruly senior, he would say "Sir, don't confuse your rank with my authority."
“I don’t want to get chewed out so I’ll answer the question like a politician.”
Don’t ask a dip spitting grunt how to handle detainees 😅
As a civilian LEO, I’ll ask kindly and then you’re going to do it. We aren’t playing games anymore in 2023.
LOL OK
@johnmcalister3620 Just say you were bullied in high school too, just like everyone else. Or were you the bully?
My uncle was a Naval Lieutenant in WW2 and he was never arrested he even gave me his jacket before he died I never really seen him he died in a car crash I wish I could have met him more.
According to UCMJ E-5 SGT/SSgt/PO3 can arrest any officer if under orders from JAG. MP (any rank) only needs probable cause. If a General Officer is arrested they will send a Captain with a SGT, and maybe a whole squad, because a General also has a PSD, and the Captain will order them to comply
As a former Military Police Officer from the 1980s, I can relate to the intracaties of arresting a higher ranking individual or even an Officer. I found that if you follow the use of force model, remain respectful, calm but with confidence in the authority you have through the Provost Marshall you will make out fine.
Probably the highlight of their career, as well.
Remember the scene from "Blue Sky" where Major Marshall (Tommy Lee Jones) is arrested by an MP? Great line delivered by the MP.
SecFor taught me "Ask, Tell, Make"
1: ask
2:tell
3:make
I remember when I was in boot camp, a recruit managed to steal a Humvee and drove it off base, trying to go AWOL, deputies from sheriff department had to stop him. He crashed it too. In our own company, Charlie Company, a group of recruits, two of them were LOS, if you haven't been in the Army, LOS are the crazies, they have to be a few feet distance from a drill at all times. A drill fell asleep. They managed to escape our base overnight, made it to a gas station, but they made the mistake of going inside with PT clothes on, there was a deputy there and noticed they were AWOL. The group was brought back by drills, and I guess they had to spend some time in military jail or I think more plausibly they were just sent back Reception Barracks.
I got to jack up a Major in the army. I was USAF SS in Germany on the flight line sitting on a C5 Galaxy with enaf onboard. He walked up read the warnings painted on the ground but didn’t care. Did the rumple crunch on him. I was only an E-3 at the time
ATM = Ask, Tell, Make. You’ll save a lot of time resolving situations with ATM. Also looks good on paper
The only time I ever had an issue was a brand-new 2nd Lt. He went off on me, a lowly E-3. I simply drew my weapon, told him that he was mistaking his rank with my authority. That ended it. A few days later I was called into my Col's office. That 2Lt was there with his Col. They both apologized to me and my Col for his behavior.
That's how it should go for everyone...
Bro that soldier needs to put some BEND in that cap
1. Preparatory command.
2. Reinforce direction.
3. Physical demonstration.
"If you mess with us we're going to beat the s out of you regardless of witnesses" said by her in the most professional language.
So happy you got out the military sister God is good I was also in San Diego praying for you the military is a dark and evil place
We used to use burlap bags, hog ties, and drop them off at the commanders office. How things have changed.
The golden rule:
Ask, Tell, Make.
To quote the great Donut Operator: “Ask, tell, make.”
If they are suspected of committing a crime, their rank is irrelevant. They should treat everyone with respect, regardless of their rank. Rank does not somehow make you immune to committing a crime.
An E-1 should get just as much respect as an O-8 in the situation of arresting a suspect.