Optimized AO is more expansive than most things, and there's literally nothing you can do about it. It provides something nothing else can, and it looks good when used well. If you don't like it, then, like all things, don't use it. You can bring this down to a super reasonable performance, but if you're running an 8+ year-old graphics card, this feature may not be your issue. Shaders run per pixel so please remember that the cost of something like this depends on how many pixels it covers on your screen not how many people have it or how many materials on your avatar use it. Those things aren't a cost of 0 but the primary multiplier by a large margin is screen coverage.
Yes thats why videos like this do not get made. Becouse the cost of people knowing this exsits at all, what it is, and how it works. is greifers and stpid people abuseingg it. Leading to vrchats devs patching the game to remove these fetures or shaders.
@@poiyomi I assume he just means a convenience feature from non-artists (or wanting to be lazy) who wouldn't know how to use substance painter or blender. I doubt it's worth doing from your end, but the convenience factor would be nice
in general I'd agree ssao sucks but this is specifically made for vr. it's the same with things like reflections. Honestly almost anything that works from your eye locations are going to be slightly different. In general, with this technique, I've had a lot of people tell me specifically they're surprised it does look good in VR.
because this is a material function and not a post process that just overlays the scene. I do take into account vr the same as I would with specular reflections. Things like refraction and blur and all of that is also done in screenspace but people are generally ok with them. You can make things look good even if they're different in each eye because the entire scene is different in each eye. they see from two different perspectives. the trick is having those two different images align correctly so your brain accepts what it's getting.
@@poiyomi I'm curious, can the shader be aware of it being used on desktop vs vr? I don't know if there's parameters readable for that, IPD would be invaluable.
@@leggysoft Yeah, you have access to that information, and VR shaders actually use the information a lot. You have access to the position of both eyes. An example use case would be averaging the position of both eyes and rendering as if you had a middle eye to make the image the same for both. You can lose depth perception doing this, but it can fix some things. A big problem is that it's complicated when used in a million different situations and setups. I'm somewhat reliant on people telling me what's wrong because I can't cover it alone. Sadly, the average user will tell everyone something terrible rather than be helpful. People love hating things if they can justify it, it's a little sad and counterproductive.
that's wild because the lowest settings are equivalent to having like 8 textures on your model. If you haven't I'd def try the latest version. nice updates for perf
Are you sure it's SSAO you're thinking of and not the real time light addon that a lot of booth models are using with the floating point light? The worst I've seen SSAO do was like 2% fps drop from 350 to like 345, it's been a pretty inconsequential addition on any of my avatars
@ it was the Default SSAO from POI Pro. He was able to Activate and Deactivate it and out of my test it was clearly to see the difference. In VR it drops me from ~90 fps down to ~25 fps with a distance of 1 meter. Quallity was set to 3 and he had 4 Materials that was using it. On desktop i get most of the time a drop from 20-30 fps even on quality 1. I don't have a high end PC and only a 1660 ti so maybe it has something to do with my old setup. But i will test the New updated version if it gives a bit more performance for me.
@Lycanthronaut you probably have dozens upon dozens of texture reads across your avatar. If you have like 5 materials I wouldn't be surprised if you're over 100
you have no choice for vrchat avatars (thats what the shader is mainly used for) since the game runs on unity you have to use it to make assets for the game id also rather not but im becoming good against my will xd
@ Oh I didn't realise this was specifically for vrchat. Yeah that was developed a while back. This video was just randomly in my feed. Random for me anyway, as I moved away from Unity a while ago.
Optimized AO is more expansive than most things, and there's literally nothing you can do about it. It provides something nothing else can, and it looks good when used well. If you don't like it, then, like all things, don't use it. You can bring this down to a super reasonable performance, but if you're running an 8+ year-old graphics card, this feature may not be your issue.
Shaders run per pixel so please remember that the cost of something like this depends on how many pixels it covers on your screen not how many people have it or how many materials on your avatar use it. Those things aren't a cost of 0 but the primary multiplier by a large margin is screen coverage.
I am not even a unity developer but i like how cute bunny character with mature men voice tells me about some sort of ambient occlusion
good video and having teeh cover half the screen makes sense for once
epic work as always, keep it up!
you too!
Sheeeesh, didnt think it was this soon to be released. Looks great
1:27 avi creators are gonna max this 😭
Only the finest of quality for our very poor avatars 😂
Yes thats why videos like this do not get made. Becouse the cost of people knowing this exsits at all, what it is, and how it works. is greifers and stpid people abuseingg it. Leading to vrchats devs patching the game to remove these fetures or shaders.
Was wondering the other day how Poi SSAO worked, this is perfect!
This is amazing! Now some of my accessories can have depth!🤩I'll check it out when I can, thank you for making this
Oh man, definitely gonna try this one out
Wow that's cool. I'm going to try using this with PCSS to get the best shading. Thank you poiyomi
I would love a way to bake the AO from the shader to a texture for objects that I don't expect will deform
@@Shadsterwolf it wouldn't make any sense because it's screen space. You'd just do that in blender or substance really easily.
@@poiyomi I assume he just means a convenience feature from non-artists (or wanting to be lazy) who wouldn't know how to use substance painter or blender. I doubt it's worth doing from your end, but the convenience factor would be nice
@tjsnowow it's possible but not easy
I honestly wish vr chat moved off the now being deprecated graphics Pipeline, I want the ease of using nodes so badly.
0:23 my favorite part
Thanks for always letting me know.
This is so sick oh my gowrdddd, also can having a mask for this help performance?
Can you bake your AO map for performance improvements?
You can but you wouldn't want to bake your hair shadows onto your face for example. see 0:17
No matter what I do it just makes my avatar black. Does anyone know how to fix this?
Can you use animated textures for the shadow ?
Is this available now? Would love to try it out on my next avatar!
yep it's on the current pro build.
I'm guessing the answer is no, since Unity has a lot of shader features Godot doesn't, but is it possible to make your solution work in Godot?
you can do much better given full control of your product. this is a vrchat shader and is hyper limited.
I truly appreciate the incredible effort going into this! Looking forward to seeing how the upcoming performance improvements enhance everything! 😊
The problem with SSAO in VR is if the left and right eye don't match it looks disgusting.
in general I'd agree ssao sucks but this is specifically made for vr. it's the same with things like reflections. Honestly almost anything that works from your eye locations are going to be slightly different. In general, with this technique, I've had a lot of people tell me specifically they're surprised it does look good in VR.
because this is a material function and not a post process that just overlays the scene. I do take into account vr the same as I would with specular reflections. Things like refraction and blur and all of that is also done in screenspace but people are generally ok with them. You can make things look good even if they're different in each eye because the entire scene is different in each eye. they see from two different perspectives. the trick is having those two different images align correctly so your brain accepts what it's getting.
@@poiyomi I'm curious, can the shader be aware of it being used on desktop vs vr? I don't know if there's parameters readable for that, IPD would be invaluable.
@@leggysoft Yeah, you have access to that information, and VR shaders actually use the information a lot. You have access to the position of both eyes. An example use case would be averaging the position of both eyes and rendering as if you had a middle eye to make the image the same for both. You can lose depth perception doing this, but it can fix some things.
A big problem is that it's complicated when used in a million different situations and setups. I'm somewhat reliant on people telling me what's wrong because I can't cover it alone. Sadly, the average user will tell everyone something terrible rather than be helpful. People love hating things if they can justify it, it's a little sad and counterproductive.
I thought you were talking about eye color and since my sister has two different eye colors I was offended for a second 😭
I have to say it looks good but unfortunately more than halves my FPS on lowest settings.
So for me an instant hide of the Avatar.
that's wild because the lowest settings are equivalent to having like 8 textures on your model. If you haven't I'd def try the latest version. nice updates for perf
Are you sure it's SSAO you're thinking of and not the real time light addon that a lot of booth models are using with the floating point light?
The worst I've seen SSAO do was like 2% fps drop from 350 to like 345, it's been a pretty inconsequential addition on any of my avatars
@ it was the Default SSAO from POI Pro.
He was able to Activate and Deactivate it and out of my test it was clearly to see the difference.
In VR it drops me from ~90 fps down to ~25 fps with a distance of 1 meter.
Quallity was set to 3 and he had 4 Materials that was using it.
On desktop i get most of the time a drop from 20-30 fps even on quality 1.
I don't have a high end PC and only a 1660 ti so maybe it has something to do with my old setup.
But i will test the New updated version if it gives a bit more performance for me.
Holy cow 8 textures is a lot
@Lycanthronaut you probably have dozens upon dozens of texture reads across your avatar. If you have like 5 materials I wouldn't be surprised if you're over 100
People still use unity?
you have no choice for vrchat avatars (thats what the shader is mainly used for)
since the game runs on unity you have to use it to make assets for the game
id also rather not but im becoming good against my will xd
@@darkhummy vrchat is LITERALLY unity wrapped into an online social experience
@ Oh I didn't realise this was specifically for vrchat. Yeah that was developed a while back. This video was just randomly in my feed. Random for me anyway, as I moved away from Unity a while ago.
@@darkhummy The thumbnail literally has VRChat's logo on it.
@@AuraDragoness I don't play VRChat. Why you still talking dude.