4:20 Hint: ALWAYS send out a general broadcast to all trains in the area as soon as you become aware of an obstruction like a failed train, don't rely on the signalling system as drivers of the trains may cause a SPAD.
More than likely this wouldn't have been possible using the CSR (Cab Secure Radio) infrastructure. Nowadays with the implementation of nationwide GSM-R, a general cellular broadcast would have come through to the driver as the GSM-R Powers on when the driver moves the FNR from Off.
Just for everyone to know, the reason the driver didn't consider that he had passed a signal in danger was because he was standing up, and thus did not press the Dead Man Switch when the train told him to. So he thought the emergency brake had gone off because of that, and not the signal.
@@dew9103 The D.S.D call on the CSR made the driver shutdown the train (FNR to Off then Back to Neutral/Forward) that completely reset the CSR, meaning that he hadn't inputted his area code or his headcode. Meaning that the CSR wouldn't receive the general stop.
2:57 that driver is blind cos he should ignore the passengers and he didn’t know that that the passengers will be reported cos they’re cameras in the stations
0:18 Is it not common in the UK to blow the horn when someone is standing over the yellow line. Anyone doing this in the US would get a Loud blast to the ears
0:10 Fare dodger. She said "I don't even pay to travel". This video is a strong argument for staffing EVERY station if a TOC (Train Operating Company) implements DOO. And they should preferably have a gateline as well if practicable to do so, or at the very least a staffed ticket office.
Today, I was at New Cross. I saw that a train was coming in 1 minute. After a minute, it still wasn't there. Then, there were many announcments about trains being delayed. Then, a train arrived at the wrong platform but let passengers off the train. Later, I heard a train had broke down, which was enough. We went and took a bus. But me dad saw a train approching and we ran, and we got it. When we arrived at Lewisham, it was probably 12:40 and the train to Kidbrooke was at 13:02. *Bloody Hell.* THAT IS TOO MUCH ON A TYPICAL TRAIN DAY.
DRA nothing. The LAST thing I ALWAYS checked before moving off was the signal's aspect. If it was red, there I'd sit, unless AUTHORISED BY THE SIGNALLER to pass the signal, either by SPT or Cab Secure Radio.
3:00 The moment the TPWS tripped why didn't he check it and notify the signaller as he should have done? I would also say same with the DSD. Even if he didn't notice he should've informed the signaller of the suspected failure, not tried to fix it himself!
It was the DSD which made the alarm. It went off because the driver lifted his foot while the reverser was still set. This making him believe his emergency brake was set off because of the DSD not TPWS.
I'm sorry TRTS? That just means the Train is Ready To Start right and is only really useful for the signaller? I'm not the best expert on British railway
Hmmm according to the manual which I quote "TPWS or AWS has initiated a brake demand that has yet to be acknowledged by the driver." So he could have believed it was the AWS and DSD acting up. Either way it was a series of unfortunate events which could've been prevented.
2:40 The lookback procedure has been removed from the rulebook and is therefore no longer in use because of the risk of the driver causing a SPAD amongst other safety reasons.
2:30 I notice the driver giving the signal a very cursory glance, I seriously doubt that he checked the signal IMMEDIATELY before taking power. I also notice that at no point did the driver set the DRA which is mandated in the rule book. That is clearly not good enough.
the reason 2M84 could not release the trains brakes was because his door interlock light which is on the side of the train causing the brakes to not release any further than step 2 braking
@@gonffc If that was the case, the EED alarm would go off on the cab, the TPWS wouldn't have an illuminated break demand light and the interlock light would be off
So there was flaw with the TPWS system on this train? Because I thought that there was a penalty time limit of about 3 minutes before the system resets after a SPAD. Or is that on never train types? Perhaps the old system should be replaced with something like the PTC system that is being rolled out in the US?
before the driver of 2M86 went through the red light aspect he looked at it then he went but he probably forgot due to the passengers messing around. Anyway great video!!
The driver's concentration wasn't an issue. He did things which he wasn't allowed to do meaning that the train wasn't moved safely. He should have concentrated on obeying the rulebook, he should NEVER have moved the train without speaking to the signaller in this scenario. There was a landline phone nearby and he had a cab radio to!
Failed to set the D.R.A because of some silly distraction that a station staff member (if there was one) could have sorted out himself. One of the most common mistakes is failing to set the D.R.A at a signal at danger. Even despite the TPWS stopping his train, he failed to acknowledge the fact that he passed it at danger and did not contact the signaller regardless. Under this circumstance you shouldn't move the train unless you are given permission by the signaller to do so. A mistake that could have been avoided if he paid proper attention to the signals rather than the passengers at the station.
Did that guy who spoke on the camera took a break and put some gel on and when he came back did he cry because that driver of the 2M96 Classic mistake but the general stop would Stop all trains near Kent house.
2M86 driver should have kept his eyes on the Signal rather than keeping an eye on the teens as all station are equipped with CCTV camras, Also the driver of 2m84 looks like he didn’t go inspect out side the train, even if he made the call, he should of went out the cab and outside of the station.
@@coasteyscoasteys some route, like the Greenwich mainline don’t have guards, usually only trains that have first class or long distance train route have guards
I didn't know that Adolf Hitler used to drive Southeastern commuter trains before being a dictator. Btw, he looks like he hates everything in his life.
Yes, it's called TPWS. That's why the train stopped. The DSD going off confused him and so he "keyed off" which resets the TPWS. It's called the "swiss cheese effect" - incidents happen when all the holes line up. TPWS isn't perfect but it's a pretty good system...
The train had already passed the red signal before stopping at the station, but why did the TPWS stop the trains several meters after the train had left the station?
@@marcodamasio I see what you mean now. No, it won't prevent you from passing the signal. But the moment you do the brakes are automatically applied. This will stop the train within the overlap of the signal. So although the train passes it, the train will come up in a heap clear of any points/crossings etc
@@smokingbuddy2010 No, what I meant is that at 2:46 you can clearly see that tre train had already passed the red signal; but the TPWS only applied brakes at 2:59, when the train was already 1 coach beyond the signal. And why on Earth was the train allowed to run that fast at 4:21 after having passed a signal at danger?
Why does the driver just assume that TPWS has tripped in fault? This is an extreme example if you ask me. I can't imagine any drivers behaving like this.
Worst driver ever. Rule book states that signaller must ALWAYS be contacted after a TPWS brake demand. PLUS, failing to set the DRA upon arriving at a danger signal.
2:15 Idiot driver. He should've let the signaller know that he overran the CCTV monitors, not just dealt with the problem himself like he did. (Edited to redact part of this comment)
I don’t like the fact that my local operator is being singled out. What about Thameslink. What about Gatwick Express, what about some Greater Anglia services.
it seems like it would be common sense to contact the signaller to check if you got a TPWS application. Also if you take the reverser into off you would surely check the GSMR furthermore it seems that the entire incident would have been avoided if he was using DRA which, by the looks of it, he wasn’t even using when he had a double yellow
Kopend09 because it’s a cautionary aspect warning of a single yellow and, though I’m not sure if all TOCs use it for cautions I would personally choose to use it for cautionary aspects so that I don’t forget about it and go up to line speed. It reduces the risk and it acts as a reminder which is its job
Wouldn't it be easer to sack all the Drivers and just have automatic trains , then you would not have to endure all those unnecessary Strikes . The Passenger Salute, my eye . Sack the lot of them and Automate the trains then you could reduce the cost of running the trains resulting in cheaper fairs. There are to many useless people working for these train Companies .They will use Any excuse not to run them .
Yeah sack train driver’s and automate all trains and in the process crush the dreams of kids like me and current drivers who wanted to be train drivers since they were kids im offended by thameslink and TFL for trying to automate parts of their network because it probably means by the time im old enough to drive a train i cant because there all automatic
Unfortunately, the only way to automate the railway is to quite literally start again, different trains with different stopping distances and metro and mainline trains all interwoven means that a DLR type system just isn't feasible without having separate lines for freight, metro and mainline trains... I'm not going to comment on the "useless people" working on the the railway except to say that 99.9% of the guys and girls who work on the railway will move heaven and earth to keep trains running...
@@Drone3774 But Automation is a good thing too, Not only that reduce accidents that caused by driver error like the Moorgate Tube crash, but with the CBTC and moving block technology, this allows trains to operate safely much closer each other. Not to mentioned that some ATO trains still need drivers to operate safely. The computer drives the train, but the driver monitors the automation and are trained to override the controls when anything goes wrong.
Automation through ATO can also increase the usage of track, important for areas where space is limited and demand is high. It’s a bit unfortunate but technology will always improve someone’s life
I love these type of train videos. There needs to be more
Ask the RSSB to release their RED programmes to the public then. In my opinion they should!
Love it too
@@marcuspotter5590 Agreed! I really want to see them lol
4:20 Hint: ALWAYS send out a general broadcast to all trains in the area as soon as you become aware of an obstruction like a failed train, don't rely on the signalling system as drivers of the trains may cause a SPAD.
@@Kopend09 I haven't got one yet but I am in the process of applying to Greater Anglia for a job as a Train Dispatcher (Customer Service) at Ipswich.
Wouldn’t that affect trains going in the other direction?
Driver should have also set the DRA
More than likely this wouldn't have been possible using the CSR (Cab Secure Radio) infrastructure. Nowadays with the implementation of nationwide GSM-R, a general cellular broadcast would have come through to the driver as the GSM-R Powers on when the driver moves the FNR from Off.
@@PottersVideos2 did youi get the job bro?
Me everytime i play train simulator
true
Lol every time
Good tip Look at signal aspect before you set off 👌😂😂
Lol
I think average train sim nerd wouldve done better than that guy because they know signal, platform, signal, action
Just for everyone to know, the reason the driver didn't consider that he had passed a signal in danger was because he was standing up, and thus did not press the Dead Man Switch when the train told him to. So he thought the emergency brake had gone off because of that, and not the signal.
Brake.
Why didn’t the general stop go through though
@@dew9103 The D.S.D call on the CSR made the driver shutdown the train (FNR to Off then Back to Neutral/Forward) that completely reset the CSR, meaning that he hadn't inputted his area code or his headcode. Meaning that the CSR wouldn't receive the general stop.
@@NorthernSystems I thought TPWS retained train stop data when the cab was shut down and restarted?
@@williamhuang8309 I think that only happens in newest TPWS equipment (350s,68s,88s,397s,Mk5 Driving Trailer,387s,etc)
2:57 that driver is blind cos he should ignore the passengers and he didn’t know that that the passengers will be reported cos they’re cameras in the stations
This makes me want to drive a southeastern train when I am older
Well Go for your
still want to?
0:18 Is it not common in the UK to blow the horn when someone is standing over the yellow line. Anyone doing this in the US would get a Loud blast to the ears
Not here I'm afraid your lucky to get a wave
0:10 Fare dodger. She said "I don't even pay to travel". This video is a strong argument for staffing EVERY station if a TOC (Train Operating Company) implements DOO. And they should preferably have a gateline as well if practicable to do so, or at the very least a staffed ticket office.
And if you do that, or might as well just have guards on the train. Proving just how stupid DOO really is
Keep the guard on the train!
I HATE DOO trains
#keeptheguardonthetrain
Can't have gaurds on trains, nobody wants to do the job, if no gaurd turns up train is cancelled.
@@ianburnett7333That’s not true man, and guards are kept on standby in case one doesn’t show up
Today, I was at New Cross. I saw that a train was coming in 1 minute. After a minute, it still wasn't there. Then, there were many announcments about trains being delayed. Then, a train arrived at the wrong platform but let passengers off the train. Later, I heard a train had broke down, which was enough. We went and took a bus. But me dad saw a train approching and we ran, and we got it. When we arrived at Lewisham, it was probably 12:40 and the train to Kidbrooke was at 13:02. *Bloody Hell.*
THAT IS TOO MUCH ON A TYPICAL TRAIN DAY.
Should've just got the bus in my opinion.
Should've just got the bus in my opinion.
0:04 Guys didn't touch the card in the reader.
3:39
Even though he passed the signal at red, you should call the signal box, do not continue forward.
he didnt think he passed the signal at danger
1:06 - 3:27 ehh How could there be 2 class 465161’s
DRA nothing. The LAST thing I ALWAYS checked before moving off was the signal's aspect. If it was red, there I'd sit, unless AUTHORISED BY THE SIGNALLER to pass the signal, either by SPT or Cab Secure Radio.
Fair point. However the rulebook says that the DRA MUST always be set in this situation.
So important to the young drivers.
Is it me or did both trains have the same headcode and different areas on the CSR? I would call the video problems with TPWS 1
2:30 The signal was right in front of him. Why didn't he check it and notice that it was at danger?
He was distracted and forgot to set the DRA.
3:00 The moment the TPWS tripped why didn't he check it and notify the signaller as he should have done? I would also say same with the DSD. Even if he didn't notice he should've informed the signaller of the suspected failure, not tried to fix it himself!
Perhaps have a warning light turn on which indicates TPWS tripped?
@@williamhuang8309 It does, that was the flashing "brake demand" light
Didn’t he see the red light? That’s why the e brake activated. Idk why all the alarms went
It was the DSD which made the alarm. It went off because the driver lifted his foot while the reverser was still set. This making him believe his emergency brake was set off because of the DSD not TPWS.
lars metworst I think the TPWS brake demand only comes on when it’s the TRTS that activates the brakes
I'm sorry TRTS? That just means the Train is Ready To Start right and is only really useful for the signaller? I'm not the best expert on British railway
lars metworst I meant TPWS which is why I said TPWS at the start of the sentence woops lol
Hmmm according to the manual which I quote "TPWS or AWS has initiated a brake demand that has yet to be acknowledged by the driver." So he could have believed it was the AWS and DSD acting up. Either way it was a series of unfortunate events which could've been prevented.
2:40 The lookback procedure has been removed from the rulebook and is therefore no longer in use because of the risk of the driver causing a SPAD amongst other safety reasons.
2:30 I notice the driver giving the signal a very cursory glance, I seriously doubt that he checked the signal IMMEDIATELY before taking power. I also notice that at no point did the driver set the DRA which is mandated in the rule book. That is clearly not good enough.
@@Kopend09 I don't have actually one to be honest.
@@Kopend09 making these two mistake could cause a disaster
the reason 2M84 could not release the trains brakes was because his door interlock light which is on the side of the train causing the brakes to not release any further than step 2 braking
Yea I agree with you
Ashford trains Don't stop at Beckenham Junction so maybe someone put on the emergency door release
@@gonffc If that was the case, the EED alarm would go off on the cab, the TPWS wouldn't have an illuminated break demand light and the interlock light would be off
at 2:36 u can't see the end off the train but at 2:51 u can then the train is a 6 car but the inside it say 8
I never noticed that!
So there was flaw with the TPWS system on this train? Because I thought that there was a penalty time limit of about 3 minutes before the system resets after a SPAD. Or is that on never train types? Perhaps the old system should be replaced with something like the PTC system that is being rolled out in the US?
No the driver reset the desk which resets the tpws. On the newer trains with TPWS 4 this can’t be done.
3:26 not real. TPWS has to be manually reset before brake demand will be reset
Err no it’s very much real. It’s called a reset and go.
Music too loud!
Does anyone else agree with me that the driver at 3:14 looks like a younger Hitler?
No he looks more like Richard Hammond when he was younger.
Hitler not happy with his life
before the driver of 2M86 went through the red light aspect he looked at it then he went but he probably forgot due to the passengers messing around. Anyway great video!!
And didn't set the DRA
The driver's concentration wasn't an issue. He did things which he wasn't allowed to do meaning that the train wasn't moved safely. He should have concentrated on obeying the rulebook, he should NEVER have moved the train without speaking to the signaller in this scenario. There was a landline phone nearby and he had a cab radio to!
is there going to be anymore southeastern dramatization clips
2:15 The driver overshoots the CCTV monitors. BIG mistake on his part!
Whens your start date?
@@Kopend09 I don't have one.
Or you already work on railway, you know so much stop lying
@@Kopend09 No.
@@PottersVideos2 lies, come on at least tell us which TOC you work for?
Failed to set the D.R.A because of some silly distraction that a station staff member (if there was one) could have sorted out himself. One of the most common mistakes is failing to set the D.R.A at a signal at danger.
Even despite the TPWS stopping his train, he failed to acknowledge the fact that he passed it at danger and did not contact the signaller regardless. Under this circumstance you shouldn't move the train unless you are given permission by the signaller to do so.
A mistake that could have been avoided if he paid proper attention to the signals rather than the passengers at the station.
As a driver myself you must always set the DRA after passing an amber signal.
Yea thats the whole point of the DRA
@@NiTransportVideoswhile in motion?
Where can I purchase or watch more of these type of video.
The driver: DOH!
Did that guy who spoke on the camera took a break and put some gel on and when he came back did he cry because that driver of the 2M96 Classic mistake but the general stop would Stop all trains near Kent house.
It should've done but it didn't work on that particular train due to the radio being wrongly configured for the wrong area code.
2M86 driver should have kept his eyes on the Signal rather than keeping an eye on the teens as all station are equipped with CCTV camras, Also the driver of 2m84 looks like he didn’t go inspect out side the train, even if he made the call, he should of went out the cab and outside of the station.
Of your a train driver then always remember before closing the doors and before departing the station, always keep an eye of the signal
@uktransportspotter9657
Suppose that's why a Guard is required
Too much for 1 person to do
@@coasteyscoasteys some route, like the Greenwich mainline don’t have guards, usually only trains that have first class or long distance train route have guards
Kids do not play around tracks it's dangerous kiddins
that's right play on the platform and on the train and play with the driver who also has to be conductor at the same time.
I didn't know that Adolf Hitler used to drive Southeastern commuter trains before being a dictator.
Btw, he looks like he hates everything in his life.
So on English trains there’s nothing that communicates you’ve passed a red signal? That’s incredibly unsafe
Yes, it's called TPWS. That's why the train stopped. The DSD going off confused him and so he "keyed off" which resets the TPWS. It's called the "swiss cheese effect" - incidents happen when all the holes line up. TPWS isn't perfect but it's a pretty good system...
The train had already passed the red signal before stopping at the station, but why did the TPWS stop the trains several meters after the train had left the station?
@@marcodamasio I see what you mean now. No, it won't prevent you from passing the signal. But the moment you do the brakes are automatically applied. This will stop the train within the overlap of the signal. So although the train passes it, the train will come up in a heap clear of any points/crossings etc
@@smokingbuddy2010 No, what I meant is that at 2:46 you can clearly see that tre train had already passed the red signal; but the TPWS only applied brakes at 2:59, when the train was already 1 coach beyond the signal. And why on Earth was the train allowed to run that fast at 4:21 after having passed a signal at danger?
@@marcodamasio that's just the way the film is edited together. It is highlighting that he should not have moved full stop after the TPWS activated.
Where had the DRA been tho?
Not to push away blame from the potential overworking , but as paul always said, plattform, signal, action
Train unions be like: KeEp ThE gUaRd
Where are these videos from? I wanna see the whole of all of them
Same here
ruclips.net/p/PLe9eY1ViAAsKtrbUAUx_3jnfLn7YN3Ncu
The whole playlist here
Why didn't the signaller contact the ECO and request an emergency switch off? (Edit: I now realise that this would be pointless.)
This spad occurred during 2010
JJ37405 anymore info? Is it on the RAIB site?
THE DRIVER AT THE BEGINNING WAS IN THE ONE OF THEM DAYS VIDEO
Why does the driver just assume that TPWS has tripped in fault? This is an extreme example if you ask me. I can't imagine any drivers behaving like this.
Worst driver ever. Rule book states that signaller must ALWAYS be contacted after a TPWS brake demand. PLUS, failing to set the DRA upon arriving at a danger signal.
ok captain obvious
2:15 Idiot driver. He should've let the signaller know that he overran the CCTV monitors, not just dealt with the problem himself like he did. (Edited to redact part of this comment)
yeah well he wasn't sacked
@@Kopend09 Comment amended.
There was a nse logo on a 465
The driver did not set the DRA when stopped at the red light
I would take the key out if I was looking out the window while stopped at a red signal.
I put the DRA, the reverser to Neutral and controller in full service
Always check the stick
I don’t like the fact that my local operator is being singled out. What about Thameslink. What about Gatwick Express, what about some Greater Anglia services.
I fully agree, funnily enough Greater Anglia use DOO on most of their routes with some exceptions e.g. local and Intercity services.
Now also between Liverpool Street / Ely / Lynn
I don't like overground I miss greater anglia
Greater Anglia do seem to do DOO,the last proper train guard i saw was on a southend service 2 years ago.
Can't have gaurds on trains anymore, if gaurd doesn't turn up, train doesn't go.
ifeel like this one is based off a true story because of the guy speaking telling us the problems at the end
it seems like it would be common sense to contact the signaller to check if you got a TPWS application. Also if you take the reverser into off you would surely check the GSMR furthermore it seems that the entire incident would have been avoided if he was using DRA which, by the looks of it, he wasn’t even using when he had a double yellow
why would he use the DRA for a double yellow?
Kopend09 because it’s a cautionary aspect warning of a single yellow and, though I’m not sure if all TOCs use it for cautions I would personally choose to use it for cautionary aspects so that I don’t forget about it and go up to line speed. It reduces the risk and it acts as a reminder which is its job
kieranhendy is it a rule book requirement to use it for a double yellow?
@@Kopend09 I'm not sure if it is.
kieranhendy I’ve had a look and it’s not
Angry Sean train
Awnser: Spad and couple but dont forget to shunt it
use the fucking DRA
Bit dramatic lol.
Doo too much hassle
Wouldn't it be easer to sack all the Drivers and just have automatic trains , then you would not have to endure all those unnecessary Strikes . The Passenger Salute, my eye . Sack the lot of them and Automate the trains then you could reduce the cost of running the trains resulting in cheaper fairs. There are to many useless people working for these train Companies .They will use Any excuse not to run them .
Yeah sack train driver’s and automate all trains and in the process crush the dreams of kids like me and current drivers who wanted to be train drivers since they were kids im offended by thameslink and TFL for trying to automate parts of their network because it probably means by the time im old enough to drive a train i cant because there all automatic
Unfortunately, the only way to automate the railway is to quite literally start again, different trains with different stopping distances and metro and mainline trains all interwoven means that a DLR type system just isn't feasible without having separate lines for freight, metro and mainline trains... I'm not going to comment on the "useless people" working on the the railway except to say that 99.9% of the guys and girls who work on the railway will move heaven and earth to keep trains running...
@@Drone3774 But Automation is a good thing too, Not only that reduce accidents that caused by driver error like the Moorgate Tube crash, but with the CBTC and moving block technology, this allows trains to operate safely much closer each other. Not to mentioned that some ATO trains still need drivers to operate safely. The computer drives the train, but the driver monitors the automation and are trained to override the controls when anything goes wrong.
Automation through ATO can also increase the usage of track, important for areas where space is limited and demand is high. It’s a bit unfortunate but technology will always improve someone’s life
No #endtopic