You make a great point woth the strengths of the Melta, being able to 1-shot Raveners and 2-shot Lictors after parry gunstrikes (and I assume 1-shot Majoris' as well) definitely a very strong argument against the GL and Incinerator, however I think that the drawback of having that much power IS the restrictions on ammo capacity. Without proper management of the 30sec ammo return threshold using with Tacticals Perk, it will for you too have to mix in and balance use of your Chainsword for less exerting encounters to preserve ammo. The benefits of the GL is that while the Grenades have less overall the effectiveness you get access to a "secondary weapon" (The actual Bolt Rifle itself) which very easily outperforms the Bolt Pistol in terms of last resort utility. Which is why I still think the GL is an overall more reliable weapon. The Melta Rifle just requires more balance of utilizing your Chainsword stomp to handle Minoris clears when only faced with only 1 or 2 Majoris enemies in a group to manage your ammo. Which is why I still opt for GL over Melta Rifle for its overall situational reliability. Once again, you just need to learn better ammo management and how to use your full kit in battle more efficiently to preserve that oppressively powerful but limited Melta Rifle shots for more meaningful occasions. The Tactical doesn't need another Sidearm, you just need to learn to manage your ammunition and resources better. Here's a tip to help you out, avoid reloading as much as possible so that you can maintain your reserve ammo for sticky situations. As well as delay doing an execution when they are ready to be executed to try and extend time between your 30sec cooldown (They remain in an executable state for 5 seconds on Lethal 10 on every other difficulties). As well as with your class perk setup 2 parry gunstrikes and 1 melee slash + kick should be more than enough to put most Majoris enemies into execution state without needing any primary shots required. (And if your fighting Terminids thats very easy to achieve) However I do agree that the Melta is extremely powerful, more so than the GL but the drawbacks are there to prevent it from being an end all be all weapon that negates every other weapon option. GL just has way more consistency in more overall scenarios (ESPECIALLY when facing off against Terminus enemies) and far easier ammo management that let's you lean heavily into exclusively using your Primary over your other tools rather than having to play more conservatively like you would with the Melta Rifle. I think I got my point across that you just need to learn to play your class better and it does not need another sidearm as the class (despite your lack of comprehension on how to play it) is already in a very strong position over most classes in terms of ammo economy and overall performance in missions.
You raise some fair points but the Grenade launcher and Melta are almost identical in terms of strength. Both have 11 shots, both need one shot to kill a Majoris and both have similar crowd control. The Melta loses against extremis, it usually takes three shots center mass while the GL only takes a single hit. It's not the ammo economy that brings the Melta down. It's the range. Right now the Zoanthropes make the grenade launcher the objectively better choice for tyranid operations. Chaos the Melta easily outclasses. You can out heal a chaos terminator that shoots rockets in your face. That is how fast you regenerate contested health. It's not even a debate in that regard. Either Saber nerfs the Zoanthropes for good or gives the Tactical the Neo Volkite Pistol as well. Because he absolutely needs it. Again this isn't even debatable. A single enemy shouldn't force me to swap to a grenade launcher for four out of seven operations. The grenade ammo economy mainly comes into play against terminus level enemies. By far the biggest weakness against solo players who use a GL. The second you dumped your 11 grenades into it it's over for you. I tried the 175% more damage combination and it does not kill a Carnifex or Neurotrophe. It only kills a Helbrute, the easiest terminus enemy in the game. Trust me I have 400 hours in this game. 200 or so with just the Tactical. Probably even more. I don't have to learn this class any further. I respect your opinion but my point still stands. Melta is the objectively better option for the Tactical outside of a single enemy. Which is still ridiculous if you ask me.
Also please stop giving me "tips". It's kinda insulting. We are not on the same playing field in terms of skill. That's like a guardsman trying to explain to an Astartes how power armor works. You can have a debate but know your place.
@@requiemagent3014 You are right about the Melta vs Chaos enemies the vast increase in contested health regen makes it far better for those scenarios, I was thinking about that while I was working. But if a Carnifex is the only Terminus threat I have to worry about with GL because Carnifex are pretty easy to parry spam hunstrike with a fencing weapon. I would rather be able to dump all my grenades into a Neurothrope along with my Krak Grenades if I can manage to find some before encountering it as thats easily enough to either kill it outright or reduce it to less than a quarter of it HP left. Also I wouldn't have to offer tips if you didn't clearly need them, your arguments very clearly showcase your misunderstanding on class efficiencies. I do agree with a good 70-80% of your response made their very sound arguments and showcase the varying downsides and benifits between the two weapon choices but as least have the humility to accept that despite having the same amount of playtime as me (more Tactical playtime i'll admit though. I personally like to play each class equally to better understand the game and it's mechanics overall) that even you can learn something new to help improve your gameplay and help better your viewpoint on topics relating the class dynamics and balance.
@@FellixNoAmatsu Here is the thing I can accept your talking points even tho I disagree with some of them. I even have two flawless runs on my channel. One with a Melta on Ballistic engine and one with a Grenade launcher on inferno. Yes those are solo runs on lethal flawless. Means zero incapacitations. I know my stuff. You can communicate your arguments and I am willing to listen. But don't offer me advice. I am way beyond that point. We don't have to agree on everything to respect each others opinion. I encourage you to watch my runs if you can spare the time. They are mostly unedited so I am not able to cheat and have proof I actually accomplished what I claimed. Everyone who can solo a lethal operation is in the 1% of the Space Marine 2 playerbase. If you are part of that more power to you. But don't let anybody talk down to you. People need to respect your knowledge. That is why I am reluctant to listen to people that are not in my chapter and haven't proven themselves to me. It's that simple. I hope you understand
@@requiemagent3014 Don't get me wrong I agree that you are very good I have seen the videos and your ou gameplay is quite impressive you implement tactics and tricks I thought only I ever do, I have as well solo'd Lethal however only with Tactical and Bulwark so far as they are by far imo the easiest and safest classes for Soloing Lethal with especially Tactical which I personally think trivializes most missions on Lethal with how easy it is to take down Terminus level enemies with. Now I don't make any content or videos of it quite like you do so I cannot show any visual proof of this so you can choose whether you want to believe me or not. I do hope your channel can grow and go places in the future, and I must say that I greatly appreciate being able to debate and discuss gaming with someone actually knowledgeable and intelligent on a topic for once. I respect your thoughts and opinions whether I agree or disagree, and thank you for the time.
I love the melta, but still like the grenade launcher to deal with ranged enemies. Like you mentioned in your video, it depends on your team, so if I'm having to provide the ranged support, I use the grenade launcher over the melta. Still, great video.
@@DJordan115 Sadly that only applies to Zoanthropes in 4.1 right now. Every other enemy is easy prey for the Melta. I am basically just waiting for Saber to nerf the Zoanthropes. Then the grenade launcher is completely obsolete. I only use the GL against Tyranids right now. Chaos is Melta only. Because you need the contested health factor. You can out heal a Terminator that way.
Thank you for the video I was just about to lvl this class up I have heavy and sniper at 25 and I have only solo one mission on Lethal as the heavy using the heavy bolter was a lot of fun. clear the rest with random groups looks like I know what I need to lvl up when I play as tactical now I was going to go with the grenadier but now I will go with metla.
@@dreadrage187ify I am glad I could help. Grenade launcher is very good against Zoanthropes and I simply cannot deny that. But the Melta is definitely the first weapon you should get to relic and become really proficient with it. It will make solo runs much easier for you
I feel like the tactical chosing Grenadier vs Metla depends on the squad. If you have an assault and bulwark with you, you HAVE to take soemthing else. With sniper and heavy you can and probably should take melta.
@@PaladinAzriel I don't take teamplay into consideration. I have a flawless solo Melta and grenade launcher run on the channel. Lethal of course. I only take solo runs into account. The survivability of the Melta is so strong it makes the grenade launcher obsolete. The Zoanthropes are the only enemy type that gives the GL even a voice in this discussion
I like to mix things up. I use the melta with my Vanguard. For the Tactical I used the Granadier first it's a ton of fun to play, and then the Plasma second. Zoans are such a pain I leveled up a Sniper just to deal with them.
@@CorbuloCDN1 Please don't use a Plasma Incinerator. Compared to Melta and GL it's basically useless. For the Zoanthropes you need the marked for death perk. The only reason why I even consider the GL viable. If this specific enemy wouldn't exist, or at least Saber gets their sh*t together and nerf them, the GL would never stand a chance against the Melta. Also Vanguard gets the Neo Volkite Pistol. Which is absolutely not fair.
This should settle this debatte once and for all. Don´t like it, I do not care
You make a great point woth the strengths of the Melta, being able to 1-shot Raveners and 2-shot Lictors after parry gunstrikes (and I assume 1-shot Majoris' as well) definitely a very strong argument against the GL and Incinerator, however I think that the drawback of having that much power IS the restrictions on ammo capacity. Without proper management of the 30sec ammo return threshold using with Tacticals Perk, it will for you too have to mix in and balance use of your Chainsword for less exerting encounters to preserve ammo. The benefits of the GL is that while the Grenades have less overall the effectiveness you get access to a "secondary weapon" (The actual Bolt Rifle itself) which very easily outperforms the Bolt Pistol in terms of last resort utility. Which is why I still think the GL is an overall more reliable weapon.
The Melta Rifle just requires more balance of utilizing your Chainsword stomp to handle Minoris clears when only faced with only 1 or 2 Majoris enemies in a group to manage your ammo. Which is why I still opt for GL over Melta Rifle for its overall situational reliability.
Once again, you just need to learn better ammo management and how to use your full kit in battle more efficiently to preserve that oppressively powerful but limited Melta Rifle shots for more meaningful occasions.
The Tactical doesn't need another Sidearm, you just need to learn to manage your ammunition and resources better. Here's a tip to help you out, avoid reloading as much as possible so that you can maintain your reserve ammo for sticky situations. As well as delay doing an execution when they are ready to be executed to try and extend time between your 30sec cooldown (They remain in an executable state for 5 seconds on Lethal 10 on every other difficulties). As well as with your class perk setup 2 parry gunstrikes and 1 melee slash + kick should be more than enough to put most Majoris enemies into execution state without needing any primary shots required. (And if your fighting Terminids thats very easy to achieve)
However I do agree that the Melta is extremely powerful, more so than the GL but the drawbacks are there to prevent it from being an end all be all weapon that negates every other weapon option. GL just has way more consistency in more overall scenarios (ESPECIALLY when facing off against Terminus enemies) and far easier ammo management that let's you lean heavily into exclusively using your Primary over your other tools rather than having to play more conservatively like you would with the Melta Rifle.
I think I got my point across that you just need to learn to play your class better and it does not need another sidearm as the class (despite your lack of comprehension on how to play it) is already in a very strong position over most classes in terms of ammo economy and overall performance in missions.
You raise some fair points but the Grenade launcher and Melta are almost identical in terms of strength. Both have 11 shots, both need one shot to kill a Majoris and both have similar crowd control. The Melta loses against extremis, it usually takes three shots center mass while the GL only takes a single hit.
It's not the ammo economy that brings the Melta down. It's the range. Right now the Zoanthropes make the grenade launcher the objectively better choice for tyranid operations. Chaos the Melta easily outclasses. You can out heal a chaos terminator that shoots rockets in your face. That is how fast you regenerate contested health. It's not even a debate in that regard.
Either Saber nerfs the Zoanthropes for good or gives the Tactical the Neo Volkite Pistol as well. Because he absolutely needs it. Again this isn't even debatable. A single enemy shouldn't force me to swap to a grenade launcher for four out of seven operations.
The grenade ammo economy mainly comes into play against terminus level enemies. By far the biggest weakness against solo players who use a GL. The second you dumped your 11 grenades into it it's over for you. I tried the 175% more damage combination and it does not kill a Carnifex or Neurotrophe. It only kills a Helbrute, the easiest terminus enemy in the game.
Trust me I have 400 hours in this game. 200 or so with just the Tactical. Probably even more. I don't have to learn this class any further. I respect your opinion but my point still stands. Melta is the objectively better option for the Tactical outside of a single enemy. Which is still ridiculous if you ask me.
Also please stop giving me "tips". It's kinda insulting. We are not on the same playing field in terms of skill. That's like a guardsman trying to explain to an Astartes how power armor works. You can have a debate but know your place.
@@requiemagent3014 You are right about the Melta vs Chaos enemies the vast increase in contested health regen makes it far better for those scenarios, I was thinking about that while I was working. But if a Carnifex is the only Terminus threat I have to worry about with GL because Carnifex are pretty easy to parry spam hunstrike with a fencing weapon. I would rather be able to dump all my grenades into a Neurothrope along with my Krak Grenades if I can manage to find some before encountering it as thats easily enough to either kill it outright or reduce it to less than a quarter of it HP left.
Also I wouldn't have to offer tips if you didn't clearly need them, your arguments very clearly showcase your misunderstanding on class efficiencies.
I do agree with a good 70-80% of your response made their very sound arguments and showcase the varying downsides and benifits between the two weapon choices but as least have the humility to accept that despite having the same amount of playtime as me (more Tactical playtime i'll admit though. I personally like to play each class equally to better understand the game and it's mechanics overall) that even you can learn something new to help improve your gameplay and help better your viewpoint on topics relating the class dynamics and balance.
@@FellixNoAmatsu Here is the thing I can accept your talking points even tho I disagree with some of them.
I even have two flawless runs on my channel. One with a Melta on Ballistic engine and one with a Grenade launcher on inferno. Yes those are solo runs on lethal flawless. Means zero incapacitations. I know my stuff.
You can communicate your arguments and I am willing to listen. But don't offer me advice. I am way beyond that point. We don't have to agree on everything to respect each others opinion. I encourage you to watch my runs if you can spare the time. They are mostly unedited so I am not able to cheat and have proof I actually accomplished what I claimed.
Everyone who can solo a lethal operation is in the 1% of the Space Marine 2 playerbase. If you are part of that more power to you. But don't let anybody talk down to you. People need to respect your knowledge. That is why I am reluctant to listen to people that are not in my chapter and haven't proven themselves to me. It's that simple. I hope you understand
@@requiemagent3014 Don't get me wrong I agree that you are very good I have seen the videos and your ou gameplay is quite impressive you implement tactics and tricks I thought only I ever do, I have as well solo'd Lethal however only with Tactical and Bulwark so far as they are by far imo the easiest and safest classes for Soloing Lethal with especially Tactical which I personally think trivializes most missions on Lethal with how easy it is to take down Terminus level enemies with. Now I don't make any content or videos of it quite like you do so I cannot show any visual proof of this so you can choose whether you want to believe me or not.
I do hope your channel can grow and go places in the future, and I must say that I greatly appreciate being able to debate and discuss gaming with someone actually knowledgeable and intelligent on a topic for once.
I respect your thoughts and opinions whether I agree or disagree, and thank you for the time.
I love the melta, but still like the grenade launcher to deal with ranged enemies. Like you mentioned in your video, it depends on your team, so if I'm having to provide the ranged support, I use the grenade launcher over the melta. Still, great video.
@@DJordan115 Sadly that only applies to Zoanthropes in 4.1 right now. Every other enemy is easy prey for the Melta. I am basically just waiting for Saber to nerf the Zoanthropes. Then the grenade launcher is completely obsolete.
I only use the GL against Tyranids right now. Chaos is Melta only. Because you need the contested health factor. You can out heal a Terminator that way.
Thank you for the video I was just about to lvl this class up I have heavy and sniper at 25 and I have only solo one mission on Lethal as the heavy using the heavy bolter was a lot of fun. clear the rest with random groups looks like I know what I need to lvl up when I play as tactical now I was going to go with the grenadier but now I will go with metla.
@@dreadrage187ify I am glad I could help. Grenade launcher is very good against Zoanthropes and I simply cannot deny that. But the Melta is definitely the first weapon you should get to relic and become really proficient with it. It will make solo runs much easier for you
Although I just uploaded a ultimate guide to the tactical with gameplay. Shameless plug
Generally I agree with your assessment. But tell me how you really feel about the bolt pistol. lol. Good vid!
@@rchelipilot3581 I don't think we have invented the words yet to express how I feel about the bolt pistol xD
I feel like the tactical chosing Grenadier vs Metla depends on the squad. If you have an assault and bulwark with you, you HAVE to take soemthing else.
With sniper and heavy you can and probably should take melta.
@@PaladinAzriel I don't take teamplay into consideration. I have a flawless solo Melta and grenade launcher run on the channel. Lethal of course. I only take solo runs into account. The survivability of the Melta is so strong it makes the grenade launcher obsolete. The Zoanthropes are the only enemy type that gives the GL even a voice in this discussion
I like to mix things up. I use the melta with my Vanguard. For the Tactical I used the Granadier first it's a ton of fun to play, and then the Plasma second. Zoans are such a pain I leveled up a Sniper just to deal with them.
@@CorbuloCDN1 Please don't use a Plasma Incinerator. Compared to Melta and GL it's basically useless. For the Zoanthropes you need the marked for death perk. The only reason why I even consider the GL viable. If this specific enemy wouldn't exist, or at least Saber gets their sh*t together and nerf them, the GL would never stand a chance against the Melta.
Also Vanguard gets the Neo Volkite Pistol. Which is absolutely not fair.
@@requiemagent3014 Vanguard ftw baby! But it would be nice if tactical got the volkite pistol, or at least plasma pistol.