How To Choose Your First Alpine Touring Ski Setup with SkiEssentials.com - Boots, Bindings, and Skis
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- Are you new to alpine touring? Not sure where to start? Overwhelmed by the amount of different gear and all the different choices?
This video is intended to help those that are new to alpine touring help assess their needs and determine what type of products are going to be best for them.
Written Article: www.skiessentials.com/Chairli...
The amount of work and how helpful this video is to an alpine hiker and ice climber looking to ski tour for the first time this winter is impressive. Much love man
Glad it was helpful!
This is ridiculously helpful, was feeling a bit overwhelmed figuring out gear but more confident now. Thanks so much!
Thanks Tyler! Glad you're finding it helpful.
This is just the kind of information I was looking for to get an overview of what one who wants to dip their toe into AT might consider. Many thanks!
Really looking forward to the next videos of this series! Great work guys
You guys have the best East Coast ski channel for gear reviews and tech talk...love it guys (and girls!), keep it up! I'm coming up to Stowe next month for a birthday ski trip...I'll try to stop in the shop to meet the team!
Thanks! Pinnacle Ski & Sports is our brick and mortar shop here in Stowe. You'll see SkiEssentials.com on the sign as well, can't miss it. Right on Mountain Road.
Here in the northeast AT is a woods game. I have dynafit, atomic backland boots, madshus eon and annum. To be able to lock in is a big bonus for added downhill control in the trees and crusted snow, it allows me to get down where typical cross country equipment would be frustrating .
Fantastic review for someone going in. Clear, short and complete.
Thanks Michael!
I think another thing to keep in mind when deciding on a setup is the difference in how you ski in the backcountry versus the resort. A lot of skiers new to touring (myself included) assume that you are going to be ripping at the same intensity in the backcountry as the resort, but in most cases you tend to ski much more conservatively. For that reason I think less people NEED the performance increase that the shift/PT provide. Unless you are specifically going for a 50/50 setup I would go tech bindings.
That's a good recommendation, Alex. We've talked about that concept in other videos before. Choose the gear for the skiing you're going to be doing most, not the skiing you WANT to be doing most. In other words, be realistic.
i know the comment's a bit old but i feel it might help someone.
the reason to buy a shift or a Duke doens't necesserely have to be around performance but safety too since these two bindings provide higher levels of it.
sure, Pin binding will be A LOT lighter, but at the end of the day you're sacrifiicing something
As someone with some experience in this area, this is an invaluable resource especially for beginners. Outstanding content.
Thanks Matt!
Class video! I can’t tell you how useful I found this! Will likely buy from you guys as result! 💪🏻
Thanks Ben! Really glad you're finding it useful.
love your straight forward honesty!
Thanks! We feel it helps!
As always, super helpful! Thanks Jeff!
Great job as always! Best ski channel!
Thank you!
Firstly ... thank you for keeping me sane and stoked for a season that I may not even get to enjoy as I am in the UK. I love your videos and actually think you are providing an important service for mental health! One suggestion ... in all your videos you tend to describe a ski as 'light' or 'quite heavy' etc. It would be great if you could give the exact weight like you give the exact turning radius as this seems to be becoming an increasingly important criteria when chosing skis. Thanks again!
Thanks for the feedback! We've been getting more and more requests for weight. We'll try to include that information going forward, especially when discussing touring gear.
Great info and well presented. Have always enjoyed your reviews. Thanks!
Thanks Vincent!
Finally. So siked for this series.
"Psyched".
Thanks for this, it is a whole neither ball of wax, very intelligent presentation.
Thank you. Very helpful and looks like I picked the right first set up.
Excellent! Glad you found it helpful, Peter.
Just bought shift pro 130 boots with shift13 bindings. Mounted them on Atomic Ben Chetlers. The downhill performance is incredible. Never had such a good setup before and I really think it’s all about the boots.
Fantastic setup! Boots and bindings for sure. Great performance out of those boots and really good power transfer in the Shift bindings compared to most other touring bindings.
Thank you for the detailed information!
Thanks for the video! Really glad you uploaded it this year. Thats so cool youre located in vermont! Just moved to Ottawa so Im hoping to explore vermont next season once the covid craziness is over lol.
Awesome! Vermont's great. Let us know if you ever make it to Stowe and maybe we can take some laps!
@@SkiEssentials I will 100% do that 😁 thanks! Subbed
Awesome video! My weapon of choice: Fischer Ranger FR 102 + Look Pivot 15 with Cast System + K2 mindbender 120. CAN'T WAIT!
Heck yeah! What a setup!
You guys rock! I'm very impressed with your knowledge, passion, and commitment to the sport as well as us. I'm 65 & looking for variety. I raced in H.S. 50 yrs. ago. Now I look lustfully at the unskied powder out of bounds at our getto resort China Peak. I like the end of the video where you talk about cross country but I would have liked to hear a little bit about a telemark setup and how it fits in. That is what I own and I may try some new technology but our snow conditions aren't like they could be or should be. Now I have some awesome information to go off of. Thank you for sharing!
Telemark is another whole world. I did it for about 8 years in a row and loved it. The more I learned, the less I learned--there's some voodoo and dark magic in the free heel world for sure. Now with NTN taking over the 75mm realm, it's almost more like bad alpine equipment versus true free heel skiing.
I just bought my first AT setup. Line Vision 108 with shift 13 bindings and the k2 mindbender 130 boots.
Killer setup!
I have the bender 130 w/shift , backland. Mind bender is a kiiiiller boot!
I wanted the shifts, but a few folks in my Arie class said it was a pain to use. How has it been for you?
Good Vid. Rocking Bent Chentler 100 w/ Atomic Shift and Scott Cosmos III as boots. Dream setup for me. Would be great if you could freely chose whatever you want. But with bigger feet you need a wider boot. Scott Comos III is really good for that.
Super helpful video. I am so excited not to post hole up and down the mountain, as well as hitting the resorts. Feel a whole lot better about "identifying myself" as a certain type of skier and how to choose what compromise I make in my first set up.
So glad you found it helpful, Josh! We want to do more videos like this, so let us know if there's anything else you're not finding out in the world of Ski Content.
Thanks for a great video Jeff. I’ve already shared with a couple friends who are starting their AT journey. I second the request to do a video on skins. I think that is another confusing aspect for beginners.
Thanks Scott! I agree, I think skins and other accessories can be just as confusing/overwhelming.
Very helpful for thinking about freeing the heels.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you very much...this video is SO helpful!
So glad you find it useful! Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any questions.
Really nice series you guys started here! Will most def see all videos. Although, I'm a little bit sad there is no Dynafit boots. The king touring boots in my opnion. =)
Very informative, thank you very much.
Nice video and really helpful, appreciated! How the skiers’ weight affects the width selections? Should the heavier skier go with fatter skis providing more flotation?
Yes and no. In general, I'd say a heavier skier should focus more on flex pattern than width. A heavier skier will benefit more from a ski with a relatively stiff flex pattern as it's more supportive for their weight. What you're saying about float is true, but surprisingly it doesn't feel like weight changes a ski's float as much as you might expect.
Very helpful video to sort out the flavors of the key equipment as they relate to how and where you ski or want to ski! Thanks. I have a pair of Head Kore 105, which I bought last year for Alpine setup, but with an eye towards backcountry too. I’m thinking or remounting them with Shift bindings. Any thoughts to share?
Hi Dion! That would be a very reasonable thing to do. The Kore 105 is a ski that performs quite well as an AT ski. Go for it!
With all the lockdowns and lift closures I guess this vid will gain more and more popularity :):)
This is excellent!! Thanks a lot for the great vid! Im new to touring and I just got Zero g 95s with the shift like you lol
Super! I've really been enjoying that setup. Works really well for how I like to ski.
More touring ski videos please!
great review, thanks
Have you ever tried the Xalibu Torngat? I tried it last year and I really loved it. I was thinking of maybe buying them and would love your input on it. I was thinking of putting a shift on it and use it with my K2 Mindbender 120 boots. Great videos!
I haven't actually, but I'd really like to. Without any experience, just based on the ski's stats, I think it would be really good for that application.
Great! Thanks for this. I think a hybrid boot and a shift or duke. I quite fancy the Corvus freebird as it seems to be a good mix of light weight and downhill performance. What would be a similar kind of ski in a 105 ish width? I felt the zero G yesterday and they are unbelievably light!
The Blaze is actually fairly similar, it's even a little bit lighter than the Corvus Freebird. Definitely a growing segment of skis... Kore 105 feels like it fits in there too.
Excellent video***
What a great video. And channel!
I recently dipped into ski touring and currently own a Head Kore 1 boot.
I want to combine it with a Marker Kingpin 13 (btw, do you have any experience with the new 2020/21 version?) and maybe K2 Wayback 88/96, Blizzard Zero G 85 or Fischer Transalp Carbon 90...not decided yet.
Any suggestions for that setup? Looking for a well balanced one - for (fast) resort skiing I have my Head Supershape e-Speed (bought it after seeing your review, not disappointed :))
The Kingpin is a great AT Binding that gives you the added confidence of having a DIN certified heel piece for your descent. All of those skis are great for a dedicated AT setup.
KOOL!!! At age 72 with some medical challenges I decided to try this anyway:). I bought the gear I need, then had a setback and have only skied on piste with my new stuff. I really appreciate this basic tutorial (amazing part is I have the shift binding and the same boots as in the video!). I hope to try soon! I am sure due to my age I won't be doing a ton of touring and felt safer with the shift bindings on the downhill. I am in the Northeast USA but felt I have to try it:).
You'll love the workout that touring provides! You'll probably find it's pretty tough at first, but like anything, it's addicting, and it's fun to push yourself to get more fitness for the ascents, and thus more energy for the descent!
Awe this comment is what it’s all about. Have the best time sir! :)
@@EvanHT thanks!
I bought a 50/50 setup last season. I went with a K2 Mindbender 130 boot and a secondhand Line Sir Francis Baker with a Salomon Guardian (same binding but from Atomic, no idea what it's called). Only been skiing in the resort last season, but only got 4 days in total due to different stuff going on. So looking forward to my first tour with this setup this season.
So far i've only been touring with my snowboard and snowshoes, but definitely not gonna carry my oversized board up a hill anymore.
That's going to be a really fun setup! The Atomic version is the Tracker. In my opinion, it's one of the better frame bindings as it has one of the lowest stand heights. One of my biggest complaints about frame bindings is how high they pick you up off the ski.
Me - Going with the cheapest stuff I can find..
Managed to get a set of touring Skis (Brand new) and frame bindings (used) and skins (Also new) for about £400, luckily my boots already have a walk function so I was lucky there. I'm based in Scotland and plan to learn to tour this year, already booked a day course next month then I'll be just going to the resorts over the winter. Probably good chance of rocks so I don't mind in the slightest going budget...
Great review man, I have the Qst but I’m not sure what bindings. I have some guardians brand new I’ve had. Haven’t mounted yet, but not sure if I want to go with the guardian or Duke pt. If I choose the Duke I was thinking about the Mindbender 130. I’m probably going to end up doing 70% resort 30% BC. I’m in the Tahoe area!
I used the Guardian personally for a long time and never had any issues with it. When it comes to frame bindings, it is my favorite frame binding. That said, if you can afford it, there are benefits to the Duke PT. Lower stand height, more natural flex to the ski, etc etc.
great info..thnx.👍👍
You’re the man
Another great video, so good.
I'm looking for my first crossover set up
Currently I'm a lifted side country powder hound who hit groomers late in day.
My goal. -Basically a lazy side country tourer who just wants to find accessible POW. Lift up, get away from the crowds by heading a few hundred yards off pitse over to the the next valley, ski down untracked run with a buddy, then find a road to skin a mile or two back to the resort so I can lazily head up the lift and do it over again. Finish the day with a few fast groomers and catch p with my lifted piste buddies. I'm a 50+ skier 6'2ft, 198 pound. So 95% side country / resort with a bit of a side country stroll to grab some ungroomed powder, 5% skinning in relatively flattish terrain (across and home).
I have been thinking DukePt16 with either a Hawk ultra XTD 120/130 or Salomon Shift 120/130.
Skis is the question- I was going to grab a Blizzard Rustler 10 for its all mountain capability (one ski quiver) but do you see any drawbacks in the above scenario? Any other options
Thanks
This sounds like a great option for you and your application. While some may want to talk you into more of a hybrid ski like the Hustle 10, it's not that big of a weight difference and you're going somewhat heavy on the boots and bindings, so you might as well lean into it. Fischer Ranger 102 and Salomon QST 98 also come to mind in this range.
Thank you so much for this video!! Very helpful and I learned a lot. I’m a beginner & I did ski alpin only 4 or 5 times. But this year I’m trying to go all in so I bought Nordica Patron Pro boots. Please can you let me know if it’s a good choice for a beginner? Which binding and ski you recommend for this boots!
Thank you once again Mann!! You rock!!!
The Patron Pro is a good boot, basically the older version of the exact boots I ski in personally. It's not an alpine touring boot, or at least doesn't have a hike mode. It's also a little stiff for a beginner, so you might want to consider softening it up a little bit (a boot fitter can help with that). For skis and bindings, you have a ton of options. Depends on the type of terrain you want to ski! That boot will work well with a variety of different skis and bindings, although you do need an alpine binding.
@@SkiEssentials omg thank you so much!! Honestly man thank you for taking the time to answer my questions!! It was really helpful!! Thanks a lot we need nice people like you in this world! Thank you very grateful
I was thinking of getting black crows Atris skis with shift binding atomic or salomon next season. What do you think of that setup? I ride also slopes, pow and I like to be playful at backcountry.
Great combination! There's plenty of people doing the exact same thing. The Atris is light enough for touring (it's not super light, but light enough), and the Shift feels like it matches its performance really nicely.
The skis you recommended were split between good hybrid resort/AT performance and great AT performance with ok resort performance. What would you recommend for someone looking for good tree skiing performance and good AT/climbing performance? Thanks!
I'd say something with a good amount of tip and tail rocker with an energetic flex and good maneuverability. Elan Ripstick 96 or 106, DPS Wailer 100, Head Kore 105... those all feel like good choices. In general, that shape is going to work really well for tree skiing and all of those are light enough for touring.
Just got the Corvus Freebirds with Shift Bindings! can't wait to get them out
Im rocking the atris and shift
Do you all like the shifts?
@@gregoryjester5167 they are good but if you're planning on going more than 50% of your days into the back country rather than resort I wouldn't recommend them.
@@jampavalunbisitsang1657 I just pulled the trigger on the cast freetour :) Thanks for the response. Have a safe and fun season
Could you please list the weight of the skis in the video (along with lengths) for consideration?
I feel like a shift binding and a hybrid boot is the way to go for me but which ski do you think would fit me best when I’m looking for a ski to tour and hit some backcountry jumps and so?
Lots of great options for that! The Atomic Backland skis come to mind, or something like the QST 106 if you don't mind a little extra weight. Ripsticks are great skis for that application too. Do you want a twin tip for backcountry jumps? That would change things a little bit... then I might look at the Bent Chetler line, or maybe the Armada ARW 106 UL.
I should have bought those Nordica 130 Striders boots last year during the Covid Blowout sales but decided on the Nordica 130 Speed Machine Elites instead - I went back and forth 20 times on which one to buy with this exact thought process about a hybrid touring setup - I then went out and bought a Fischer Crosscountry ski setup depending on how Covid plays out. Can I retrofit Pin Toes into my Lange XT 130 Boot from 5 years ago that didn't come with a PIN Toe?
Hey Paul! Some shops have that capability, yeah. I'd make a few phone calls to local shops around you and see if any of them have the capability. Generally, that can work pretty well.
Combo 100 bent chetler with shift binding and k2 boost 130 . Wow just à great set up !!
Sweet.
Do you guys have any thoughts on using Daymakers with skins as a way to dip your toes into the wide beautiful world of touring? As far as lowest level of commitment goes, you can basically use any existing alpine setup from what i understand.
Hey Ian! Perfectly reasonable thing to do. Yeah, you can use any existing alpine setup with Daymakers. I'm actually excited to see those gain some popularity. I used to be shunned for my affection for Alpine Trekkers, and I still think they're a good piece of equipment for certain applications.
I am looking into the Fischer Ranger 102 FR skis that I am hoping to be able to use mostly as resort in and out of bounds skiing, as well as on a few backcountry days a year. I am debating between the Marker Duke PT and the Solomon shift bindings. I am 5'6", 135 lbs, an advanced, semi aggressive skier who loves to be in the moguls and off the groomed slopes. Any tips as to which would be a better binding?
If you're spending more time in the resort, I would go Duke PT. We prefer the feel of that binding as an alpine binding overall. It just feels a little more solid. The Shift is great as a 50/50 binding or for someone who is at least touring more often than you're planning on. Hope that helps!
Super helpful, thanks! A quick intro to skins would be a helpful companion video as well! I think "put a frame binding on an old pair of skis and always have the option to skip the lift lines due to COVID at the resort" might be a really interesting idea this winter.
Avalanche Course should be your first step to this process
We will likely chat about skins in a future video, yes!
Thanks for the video! What skis could you recommend to a heavy and tall expert skier, 195 sm, 115 kg, 44 years old, who wants to ski (downhill), not hiking a lot.
My current freeride skis - Volkl Shiro 193. Really like full rocker. Also I have Volkl Mantra 191 (double titanal), race stock Atomic GS and SL skis (I do not compete).
My favorite freeride bindings - Market Jester PRO 18. Ski boots - Roxa R3 130 (in hard mode).
The QST 106 actually works really well for bigger skiers. There's enough heft to it that it doesn't feel too flimsy or unstable, which as you probably know can happen for skiers your size. I feel like it would be a nice complement to what you already have... more playful, but still supportive.
Really good and precise. I am wanting to do more backcountry exploring and this has helped with understanding what set up I should be looking at. Thanks.
Thoughts on the V-Werks Mantra and most appropriate bindings for a resort/touring hybrid set-up? If there was already an M-Werks Duke PT I would probably go with that, but the heft of the current Duke PT would probably not pair well. I would not want to put either Kingpin on a hybrid that I could take on resort piste. So, for me, that leaves the Shift. Would you put a Shift on the V-Werks Mantra, to use mostly back country but with the option to go in resort/touring?
Yeah, actually, I think that would be a pretty awesome combination. I'm sure there would be all sorts of people at the Volkl/Marker headquarters that would be squirming, but realistically I think the performance of the Shift is a really good match for the V-Werks Mantra.
@@SkiEssentials Thanks Jeff. Do you like the V-Werks as a 50/50 ski, or is it backcountry/touring oriented?
If I go wailer 100 and want a good downhill performance but also will use in uphill, is the atomic shift binding the way to go? I have Tecnica Cochise boots btw.
Yeah, I think that's a really good match for that ski. The Duke PT feels kind of heavy for the Wailer 100. Shift feels like a better complement to its performance. Sorry for the delay getting back to you!
How many people are buying AT boots this year, especially the hybrid ones, just to take advantage of walk mode and gripwalk soles around the parking lots, resorts, etc. Would you ever recommend something like the Lange XT3 for someone that's not planning on touring?
I wouldn't really recommend that boot for someone not touring, no. GripWalk soles are available on most non-touring boots these days. In my opinion, GripWalk makes walking around the resort far easier than normal alpine soles. There are a few less expensive alpine boots with walk modes that are designed more for that use. You're kind of wasting money and over-doing it if you're choosing a full on AT boot and aren't going to be using it for touring. That's my opinion, at least.
Scarpa boots , Simple Tele bindings ( 3 pin Voile w/ cables) ..and light BC skis w/ fish scale bases , so you don't need skins ....super lite set up and works awesome and if you can't tele turn yet ....who cares just do regular alpine turns ..... Setup my niebor with great used gear .....skis , bindings and boots for $150.00 .
Hi, is it viable to pick factions prodigy 3.0 ct 3.0, the Blackcrows atris, revolt 104 or the benchetler 100 as touring skis in connection with lets say either the duke pt or the Salomon/atomic shift?
Yup! All of those skis are very reasonable to consider for a touring ski. Duke PT and Shift would be the best choices for binding too. There's some variety in weight among those skis, so something to consider. Obviously, a lighter ski will be easier on the ascents!
I'll be setting up my first touring setup this year, just need the boots now but so far:
Jskis slacker in 176 (I'm 5'7")
Marker M-werks bindings
Any suggestions on boots?
I feel like a Dalbello Lupo would be a nice match to that setup. Lots of lateral support, which works really well with skis like the Slacker.
@@SkiEssentials Thank you!
thoughts on using the DPS Alchemist Wailer 100 as an AT ski?
Really, really good. Also, it's versatile enough that you could justify a wide range of bindings. Something like a Duke PT or Shift and it would be a ripping resort ski too, or a lighter tech binding if you're spending more time in the backcountry.
I see those skis are all 100+ waists. Is that typical? I have some BC Divus (82mm)that I don’t use much at resorts and was thinking about transitioning them to a touring set up. I have K2 Mindbender boots so any would all of these bindings work? Thinking more about shorter hikes and doing lap’s rather than long slogs.
Mainly it's because the 100 ish waist is a good middle ground for the manufacturers that we cover. Most touring skis in this range come in a variety of waist sizes and the 100's seem to be the most useful and versatile. If you're only doing laps in the resort, there's no real reason to go this wide.
I'd love to try touring (with a primary DH focus) but I need some help before I purchase anything. I'm an advanced-expert rider, primarily focus on as much "off-piste" resort skiing as possible.
My current setup:
Skis - 2014 Salomon Rocker 2 108
Boots - 2020 Salomon S/PRO 120
Bindings - I'm honestly not too sure but they're an all mountain binding
Could I technically swap my bindings to a set of the SHIFT 13's, use some skins and away I go? Would this be a terrible setup? Is the "walk mode" on the boot critical? Can the shift 13's be used as an all around binding?
Any help is appreciated.
Cheers
HI Harrison!
The big thing with the Shift is that in order to tour, you need tech fittings on your boots. You can ski downhill in the Shift with your boots, but you cannot tour. This is the tech-fitting comparable boot to your S/Pro that would work great with your setup: www.skiessentials.com/2022-salomon-shift-pro-120-at-men-s-ski-boot.html#520=
The walk mode is nice, but not critical like the tech fittings in the toe for this specific binding. The Marker Baron: www.skiessentials.com/2023-marker-baron-epf-13-bindings.html#526= is an example of a "frame" binding that you can click into with your current boots and tour with, but they're heavy and tall. It's kind of older technology, but if skiers want to have non-tech boots, this style is really the only option. Hope that helps!
SE
I toured in my race boots for two years.
Definetly consider a hybrid boot. I did the same for some time and recently got the tecnica coochise 130 dyn and they are incredible.
How would you rate/compare the Fritschi Tekton vs the Salomon Shift?
You're basically getting a much better toe piece with the Shift for the descents. The heel is a little stronger too, but the toe is a huge difference between the two. The Shift toe is designed to function a lot like the STH2 toe piece, which is arguably the best alpine toe on the market. The Fritschi, on the other hand, is lighter. Closer in weight to the Kingpin 13.
Where do 3 piece boots fit in to this in terms of downhill performance compared to alpine and hybrid boots? I'm thinking of things like the Dalbello Lupo AX 120 / Lupo Pro HD? Also much of a compromise are these compared to the hybrid boots and alpine boots? Also how much of a compromise are hybrid boots compared to alpine? I'm pretty sure either the Duke PT or Shift Binding are the right ones for me and i'll either get the Camox/Navis/Corvus Freebird ski. I will use this setup probably 95% plus for lift accessed off piste and freeride. My ISiA trainer recommended to get an alpine boot and said that a 3 piece and possibly hybrid boot will give inferior performance compared to what I will need for level 3 and 4. I do currently only ski a 110 flex atomic hawx boot though and don't really want to buy 2 boots this year or a frame binding and a boot with no walk mode if it's very inferior for touring. i don't want to put myself off touring before I've even tried it. I was told that some hybrids like the Atomic XTD 130 have and maybe Lange XT3 have a flex more consistent with a 110 flex. After 2 years skiing the 110 I'm not sure if I need to move up to a 120 alpine flex or not.
3 piece boots are great and their performance can match traditional 2-piece shells overall, they just feel a little different. 3 piece or cabrio boots have more lateral support than 2 piece boots. Some people who prefer more upright skiing positions prefer them. Lots of park skiers, but plenty of freeride guys too who ski more centered/upright and initiate turns laterally rather than a traditional fore/aft method. So, it's kind of just a matter of which you prefer. I can understand why a trainer would say a 2 piece boot is best. Slightly more precise power transfer and a more "traditional" feel, but I think a high level skier can make either work just fine. I've used both, I enjoy both, I find benefits to both, they're just different. In response to the flex pattern, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Your 110 alpine boots should still be fine for most of your on-piste skiing. Another thing to consider is there's no actual industry standard for flex ratings. Some brand's 130 will feel stiffer than another's, or even within a single brand, different models can feel different. I do think hybrid boots in general will feel a touch softer, but I'm also sure there are exceptions to that rule. So, get the touring boots that will work well with your setup and don't worry too much about flex pattern or whether you're losing too much precision.
Edit/Spark Notes: If you're spending all that money on a sweet touring setup, don't get a boot without a hike mode. You'll regret it.
@@SkiEssentials Wow thanks for the detailed reply. I already got told I should make sure not just to the lazy carve method and initiate laterally haha. I'm training for a BASI level 3 now so i'm not a high level skier just yet but getting there gradually. I think having a boot with enough forward learn is probably very helpful to encourage me into the right position. I don't think instructors like centred skiing very much. You have to be seen to be driving forward. Apparently the Lange XT3 130 or 120 could be a good fit for me based on what my bootfitter has said. The Nordica strider seemed a decent fit too but I didn't feel any noticeable feedback when flexing it - it was a strange experience. I got told today that my old 110 atomic hawx fit me like a pair of floppy wellies. Definitely new boot time! I'm quite curious to try those Green Dalbello HD pro. Are the 3 piece miles better for walking than hybrids? I'll tend to lean towards piste/freeride performance as that's what i'll be doing 95% + of the time
@@MadelnMachines Some skiers prefer the 3 piece boots for touring, yeah, although I personally don't notice a huge difference between them. Xt3 does feel like a good choice if you're replacing your Hawx...
Can you guys do one about how to drill your ski for bindings?
We certainly could, although that's not something we generally recommend doing on your own. Having the right "jig" for the binding is not 100% necessary, but mounting a ski without it is way, way more risky. Does that make sense to you? My concern with doing a video like that is too many people would try who aren't properly equipped and a bunch of people would drill useless holes in their skis.
The Blizzard Zero G 105 sounds good, but I’m wondering about the long turn radius of the 188. I ski the Bonafide now and manage to ski glades and bumps…but it takes effort. The short turning radius of DPS Pagoda 100 RP and Tour RP seem to be easier and snappier in tight trees and couloirs. But the price…What would you suggest? Like you, I prefer a beefier boot (Solomon Shift 130) and lighter ski. Great review.
Hi Phillip! If you're thinking about your Bonafides and worried the Zero G might feel similarly demanding, don't be. It's so, so much lighter and way easier to flick around. You're that the smaller turn radius of the DPS gives them a very quick, agile feel, but the Zero G is quick too. The longer turn radius actually allows you to pivot and smear your turns more easily. Longer turn radii are easier to release into a skidded turn than shorter radii. So, the DPS is going to make more rounded turns, while the Zero G will make more pivoted, slashed turns, so to speak. In other words, the Zero G is a great ski for tight terrain, it just goes about it with a different style than a ski like the Pagoda 100. Hope that helps!
@@SkiEssentials Yes...100%! My buddy took me into Chin Clip Glades this past season...my first experience. His set up was new Voile's with true telemark bindings and Scarpa boots. He was excited to have metal edges and there I was with my Dalbello Lupo 130's, Attack 14 and Bonafide's...hence the interest in a lighter hybrid set up.
I have the Black Crows Navis Freebird with Marker Kingpin binding with Lange XT free ski boots. For occasional hikes of no more than a couple of hours of uphill is fine but full day hiking uphill you’d be better off with more dedicated lighter set up
thanks for the input, and we agree with your feedback.
personally I have a beast 14 on a salomon q106 ski with scarpa maestrale rs boots. I think its super versatile, but its heavy. Being fit compensates for the added weight
As long as you don't mind the weight for the ups, you're likely going to win the downs.
How would you rank the line vision 108 compared to these skis?
Super fun ski, I would've put it somewhere to the left of the sign. It's a really good choice if you want to do some alpine touring and specifically want a twin tip. When you add twin tips, there are a lot less options.
Concerning the dps what's the differemce between the Alchemist construction and the Foundation construction?
Alchemist is much lighter (and more expensive). Foundation is a heavier construction that some skiers prefer if you're choosing skis for the resort, but in general Alchemist or the new Pagoda Piste are going to be the better constructions for touring.
@@SkiEssentials thanks!!
Hi! Can I take the revolt 104 too as a touring backcountry ski?
Yup! It's not super light, but definitely light enough to do some touring. Plenty of skiers used it to tour this year.
Would you ever review The Renoun Citadel ??
Sure! They are relatively local to us and we know a good amount of people on their staff, so could probably make that happen someday.
Awesome video - love SkiEssentials! For me, spending 80% of time in resort and starting to dable in off-piste for the first time this season, I got a down hill oriented, touring capable 1-ski quiver:
Fischer Ranger 102 FR 177cm
Marker Duke PT 16
Fischer Ranger Free 130.
1 question - the binding is new to market and I doubt many shops have worked with it. I’m terrified a ski shop is gonna botch up the mount. Can I just mount myself or how can I find I shop I trust (I’m in PA but willing to drive)?
Find a Marker dealer in your area. They will have a Jig (a drill guide that attaches to the skis) for the Duke binding, this will ensure the holes are drilled correctly.
I wouldn't recommend doing it yourself, but I would say it's a relatively easy mount among AT bindings. Any shop with experience mounting Royal Family bindings should be able to mount the Duke PT. Just call first to make sure they have the Jig, as William mentioned.
What do you think about cast setup?
It's a great system. If you're looking for the best downhill performance, the only thing that can really compare is the Duke PT or using something like the Daymaker system. I don't, however, think it's the best choice for someone new to touring just because there's more moving pieces, so to speak.
I'm just getting into this. I used to downhill ski growing up but I like the idea of exercise and cross country hybrid. Question why are these skis so fat? And I hope the boots aren't too heavy either.
There's a pretty big gap between this group of Alpine-Touring gear and then a "backcountry" setup which probably starts where that Rossignol BC 100 ends. There are a lot of skis that function as wide cross-country skis in the BC realm, so something like that BC 100 with an NNN BC binding and a burly leather-style XC boot can do a whole lot of things, but that application pretty much ends at the resort. The rest of the skis in this specific compilation have some type of ski area ability while the BC skis are not quite there. Basically, you need to decide if you're looking for a plastic boot that clicks into a binding or not, and then that'll make your process a lot easier. We sell a lot of stuff like this: www.skiessentials.com/2022-fischer-s-bound-crown-98-skis-w-fischer-bcx-transnordic-boots-and-poles.html
Great. For boots some would chose the "Roxa R3". No one wants elephant feet.
Great video as always!
I would love fo you guys to do something in general about skis and bindings for youngsters / bigger kids.
My son is 12 and 171 cm and he loves skiing. But It's really hard to find anything useful out there about this 'in between segment'.
I thinking others must have the same challenge.
Thanks! That's good feedback, I appreciate it. I (Jeff) actually coach kids in that age range. Most of them when they start to get a little bigger, I'll move them into lightweight adult bindings. I've found a lot of success in the Attack 11 for kids that are still relatively lightweight. A lot of the athletes I coach, I'll move them to a Look Pivot 12 or sometimes even 14 if they're bigger or skiing at a high level. I like the Attack 13 for that application too. We are going to do some binding reviews/comparisons this season, so I'll try to work that in, but don't hesitate to reach out if you have any specific questions you need answered sooner.
@@SkiEssentials Great, that makes sense. Thank you for that. What do you recommend regarding the skis? In that bigger kids range, the junior skis seems too small.
Will a shorter adult ski, like the BC Atris 178 or the BC Justis 171 be too much of a handfull? What do you recommend size and stiffness wise? BC is just an example.
Anyway I would love to see you guys discuss that :)
It depends also where do you want to go ski touring. For example if you want to go ski touring in the Alps where the elevation profile of your route is so high that there is no other alternative than pin bindings. One has to improve his skills in the backcountry, mountain (off-piste) environment and get better at using such a lighter ski compared to alpine all mountain ski .
Great feedback, thanks for sharing!
>>"the Alps where the elevation profile of your route is so high that there is no other alternative than pin bindings" I don't understand what you are saying. What does elevation have to do with pin bindings?
@@laurenceclark8754 it means you cannot go on a ski tour in the Alps using a hybrid binding when you have a minimum of 1000 m in altitude to gain and the gradient is so steep that if you need to kick turn your ski it will make it impossible on a hybrid binding. Skinning on a route even on a "heavier" pin binding is such a strenous effort that if you add the extra weight of a hybrid binding it will make it unbearable as soon as you need to skin up the mountain.
Very few people use a hybrid binding in Europe when skitouring, and this is mostly on a 70 % resort/30 % backcountry with lift acces as an use case.
If you do not believe me check the elevation profile of any medium dificulty skitour in the Alps.
@@alltoone thanks I failed to register the word "profile." Are skiers ihe Alps using really light skis as well? Are they managing difficult, steep downhills on them? Any reason to even have fixed heels over telemark gear in that situation? I'm looking to buy all new ski gear after a long break and there are so many choices!
Wherr is all the ski rando gear?
We focused on heavier, more well-rounded equipment for this video. Rando gear, in my opinion, is a more specialized sub-category of the broader AT gear.
Your choice of AT gear should be determined by how often you will use it to tour and how long you accent wiil be. Those steps add up on the way up. I would not advise buying a frame binding because you are lifting the heel piece and frame on every step. Also the pivot point on frame bindings does not give you as much range of motion as a pin set up. If possible rent and try an AT set up so you learn what is actually involved In skinning up and transitioning to ski down. I made the mistake of starting with a Marker Tour F 12 on a Freeride ski. A friend who was teaching me how to AT let me try his pin tech set up and it was like going from heavy work boots to running in cross country running shoes. I rented a BC ski with Dynafit Rotation 10 bindings and did a 4.6 mile accent. My best distance in the frame bindings was 2.5 miles. My new set up is Dynafit Rotation 10 on K2 Wayback 96. I also replaced my Nordica Strider 120 with a lighter Salomon S Lab MNT 120 boot. I tour about 2-3 times a week in Little Cottonwood Cannon Alta Utah.
I think the frame binding is best now for someone in the "old pair of skis in their basement" category. I agree 100% that pin bindings are, in general, far better. I give it a few years until frame bindings are more or less obsolete.
Nice Video. I built antouring adapter myself with the help of a 3d printer. It works really well. I also made a video about it.
We just watched it, very impressive setup!
What are your thoughts on the K2 Mindbender 108ti as a touring ski? Thanks!
Btw, most value is placed on downhill performance and doing laps on short descents
If you're okay with having a heavier ski, it will work just fine. It's definitely not as light as most skis designed for touring, but for short laps and for someone who's emphasizing downhill performance, it could certainly work.
How are you talking about alpine touring bindings and NOT mentioning CAST? If you want no compromises going up or down, its definitely the way to go.
We've actually talked about the CAST system quite a bit in other touring videos and articles! It's a great system, especially if you're asking a lot out of your equipment on the decent. Nothing can really match the downhill performance of a Pivot, although the new Duke PT is certainly a contender.
I think one note that was missed is the existence of Telemark, sitting right between Alpine touring and CC.
It's fair to say that telemark paved the way for this explosion of AT gear, almost to the point of its own disappearance.
Rustler 11- 192 cm
Marker Kingpin 13 mounted 2+ Factory
Pomoca Pro S Glide
Full Tilt Ascendant SC
See ya and send it set up
Pemberto WolfPack.
Heck yeah! Great setup you've got there.
How dare you put a CC ski up there. are those even skis... 😂😂 😊
Ha! Honestly, I've been more scared/thrilled going downhill on a nordic ski than any of my alpine skis!
@@SkiEssentials You really gotta A-frame a CC ski for downhilling.
Do they even flex properly?
He talks a bit slow (or lack of post editing). Use 1.75x speed helps get through the vid
Don’t get the shifts look at the reviews they are a terrible binding! They aren’t built well you will double eject off anything broke my leg on them on my first day with these bindings don’t use them! Look at the reviews! They will hurt you!
I haven’t had any more issues with my shifts than I have had with any other binding. Were yours adjusted properly? What was the scenario when it happened?
2.27 minutes in and blahs blah. Just get to it.