In this episode, we discuss: 0:02:16 - Oliver’s experience that led him to write the book Four Thousand Weeks 0:05:59 - Human’s relationship with time and the struggle with the finite nature of time 0:10:15 - How productivity can be a trap 0:17:45 - The fallacy that being more efficient will open up more time and bring a feeling of control 0:25:14 - The paradoxical nature of trying too hard to be present in the current moment 0:30:33 - The value of relationships in meaningful experiences and fulfillment, and how time gets its value from being shared 0:42:09 - The importance of time synchronicity 0:48:07 - Identifying your biggest priorities and the paradox of wanting to do more than you have time for 0:55:37 - Oliver’s moment of clarity in 2014 0:59:25 - The role of a sense of purpose in fulfillment 1:10:36 - Reconciling the finite nature of time and letting go of trying to master your time 1:18:58 - Why we tend to have a future-focused attitude and how to combat that with atelic activities 1:27:36 - The power of shifting your perspective about time and your experiences 1:36:54 - How to operationalize the three principles for the dilemma of finite time 1:46:05 - Harnessing the power of patience in the face of a problem or experience 1:53:58 - The value of incrementalism for being productive 1:58:34 - Embracing your finitude with curiosity 2:02:10 - Acting on an idea in the moment rather than letting the idea be the obstacle
Recently caring for my mother with dementia for about 8 years until her death ... spending some time with her other 95 year old friend since then is washing my mind of getting through the list, desperately seeking time-saving tricks and the like. I still do those things of course, years as a single parent and high school math teacher demanded such behaviors ... but then catch myself and have a giggle. It's over when it's over. Until then locate a pace that supports peace, balance and a nice momentum and I do the things that pump those endorphins and neurotransmitters for me. Of course I forget, get derailed, pick myself up, dust myself off, have a good laugh at my antics ... and keep moving, no throwing. You and your guests inform, entertain and provide fuel and fodder in a most generous way. Thank you for sharing your lives.
I had a 45 year career ... as basically a professional workaholic. I was a consultant, so time was money, and time management was my currency. I thought everything would change when I retired ... I'd kick back and not worry about time. After several years of retirement, I've found I'm just as busy as ever and I never quite get through my to-do list. So, I REALLY needed this podcast. The problem is not better time management techniques. Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one who stared in stupefaction at the pages of Heidegger in grad school.
Oh my word. It feels like you have just hit on EXACTLY what I'm going through. This is the debate in my head. Probably most of our heads. Thanks for grappling with it. I don't feel so alone now.
You are not alone man. 42 in a few months and still looking for meaning. Maybe ill be looking forever and that's my path. 10/10 introvert just like Peter Attia.
It's arguable whether kids should even be viewed as a worthy milestone in life. I'm younger, but I hope I'll not have kids when I'm 40. There's a whole childfree movement right now of people like this. Rarely do I hear of childfree people in their 60s, 70s, or 80s who regret it. Personally, I'm not even worried about negative effects on happiness (parenting happiness gap, as it is called in studies) but I think the world has enough people, so it is not good for others and , when you're willing to risk taking a hit on happiness by having kids, the effect on the world is the same as abandoning a kid whom you could have adopted. So it's hard for me to see having kids ever that are my own.
I have kids, education, personal accomplishments, house...I still feel it's not enough. It's all in our heads😅 I feel I need to hit the road and travel as slow or fast as I want, and then I'll get the feeling of IT. But we all know it's not really possible. As long as we solve, play, struggle, move...we are alive.
Initially, I wasn’t so interested in the topic, but thought I’d give it a go. I knew that the topic “really” was about emotions, particularly the emotion of anxiety, which helps you plan for the future. And possibly shame and panic, among many other emotions. But I doubted they would come up. However, I was delighted at about 20 minutes or so when Peter mentioned death. I said boom, there you go. Panic helps us deal with life-threatening situations. And then sadness and grief were mentioned. Awesome! Nkw we’re getting somewhere. Perhaps it’s the idea that if we plan everything out well enough and are as efficient and productive as possible, we won’t have these difficult emotions. We won’t be humans living human lives. No amount of good planning and productivity systems will change that. There js always enough time, though, to live a human life, with everything that includes, including all the ways we can experience time. So good. So fragile.
Wonderful dialogue, thank you for sharing. About the role of the sense of purpose part - I kept thinking about JR Tolkien’s Silmarillion. He writes there about elves how they know about gods that created them, know the entire past and the future. And it feels that the ultimate purpose and meaning in human’s life is that ability to somehow to get to know entire past and future and get to know how and why “there is something instead of nothing”. Lack of this knowledge is what “tortures” human beings and at the same time appears to be a blessing according to JR Tolkien. If that knowledge is somehow obtained then Time probably ceases to exist.
I went to visit my 102-year-old aunt with 7 of my cousins yesterday. When we walked in, she said, "Oh, the kids are here!" Our ages range from 55 to 85. This woman was born in the Roaring 20s, was a teen in the depression, and was a young woman in WWII, watching her friends and family go to war. Unbelievable to me. Yet the song as a thread through this visit and this episode is Harry Chapin "Cats in the Cradle," because I feel we really never have enough time with our loved ones. Be well everyone and love life.
Coming up on the realization that genuine self care and valuing yourself might lead to: "I don't do anything I don't want to, I don't work if I don't want to, and I am never productive for productivity's sake, unless I want to be". Life, personal purpose, and the enjoyment of both 🎯
I found that realizing what i value is just that, only what i think, to be very liberating. I have no impact on others perceptions. For example, let’s use having the belief that maximizing ones time with ones children is of the highest importance so one tries to do just that. One has to be satisfied with those acts and the decision to do so; one cannot expect anyone else, including the children, to find value in that time. The children may wish they had more time with friends, other adults, grandparents, coaches, etc. People’s perceptions are always biased towards what they don’t have instead of appreciating what they in fact, do have. In other words, i have no control over my legacy as that is what other people think of me; I can only control (and that’s even debatable) my actions. Focus on internal rewards!
First of all, I read the book on your recommendation a good while ago and it was transformational. This video is fantastic as well. Truly important. But, damn, Peter!!! How good does your camera shot look now!!! #lighting #clarity
I remember taking my boys to the playground in a park when they were 5 and 7 years old. There were a couple of older kids on the playground who were a bit rough. I'll never forget the moment I realised that if I wasn't there, these older rough kids would have killed my children.
I realze after listening once is that i get rageful if things take longer than i think they should. I blame myself for being incompetent as the cause of any, literally ANY problem encountered in a project.
Peter, if there's one place I recommend you visit before you die it would be the UpperRoom in Dallas, TX. I believe there is an absolute paradigm shift awaiting you there. All the best.
What the Living Do by Marie Howe Johnny, the kitchen sink has been clogged for days, some utensil probably fell down there. And the Drano won't work but smells dangerous, and the crusty dishes have piled up waiting for the plumber I still haven't called. This is the everyday we spoke of. It's winter again: the sky's a deep, headstrong blue, and the sunlight pours through the open living-room windows because the heat's on too high in here and I can't turn it off. For weeks now, driving, or dropping a bag of groceries in the street, the bag breaking, I've been thinking: This is what the living do. And yesterday, hurrying along those wobbly bricks in the Cambridge sidewalk, spilling my coffee down my wrist and sleeve, I thought it again, and again later, when buying a hairbrush: This is it. Parking. Slamming the car door shut in the cold. What you called that yearning. What you finally gave up. We want the spring to come and the winter to pass. We want whoever to call or not call, a letter, a kiss - we want more and more and then more of it. But there are moments, walking, when I catch a glimpse of myself in the window glass, say, the window of the corner video store, and I'm gripped by a cherishing so deep for my own blowing hair, chapped face, and unbuttoned coat that I'm speechless: I am living. I remember you. (Poem written by Marie Howe to her younger brother that had died from AIDS)
1:08:01 "Her finely touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs." George Eliot, Middlemarch
1:03:13 this sounds like a problem of scale. Your purpose is what genuinely lies within your reach. A modest aim sincerely pursued is sounder than something more fantastical. And what do we risk sacrificing for the latter?
So life has no real purpose and all endeavors are basically worthless in the big scheme of things. An ancient book written about 900 BC says it succinctly and fully agrees with you philosophers/doctors. Before you eliminate these carefully written and preserved writings, take a peak into one of the books, called Ecclesiastes, right past the book of poetic songs and the book of wisdom in the Bible. You may be surprised by what you find there, and you may even find some satisfying answers. I care about you guys as I feel your anguish over the many serious topics that this podcast presented.
A question, sadly not immediately relevant.... I do a 2 hour bike ride every Saturday, zone 2. I read that I should fuel this with something like 6og carbs immediately before setting off and the same mid way. Of course there are variants. I want to know if taking in simple sugars for this purpose is OK or a bad idea? Sugar seems to be vilified in daily life, but when it comes to 1 hour plus endurance, it seems plenty go for simple sugar, water and maybe a pinch of salt whe exercising.
I'm loving this conversation. Can I suggest Peter approach Iain McGilchrist, author of 'The Master and his Emissary' to expand on these concepts.Thank you.
Peter, I understand your feeling about your children but remember you may get that time when you have your grandchildren. Grandchildren are an amazing way to add meaning and the sense of legacy to your life. Just wait and see-your grandchildren are everything ❤
Yet, if we had infinity time with kids, per si, maybe we wouldn’t appreciate it as much. That could be another impossible task of trying to have enough time with something we want because wanting something and having only so much time are the same thing/inseparable
I think Appreciation is a good antidote for anxiety as well as bringing one into the moments they want to be attentive to…. Also, Appreciation maybe even cools the aversions one might have with other things since your attitude has changed becoming more of an advantageous one.
Peter's looking for a unified theory has an interesting parallel to finding a Unified Theory of Everything in physics. Physicists look for a theory, dream of a unified theory, but we haven't found one yet. We may not even be close. But we have theories that work perfectly well in different contexts. In practice, these theories allow us to get quite far in understanding the world around us. Maybe that's all you need in life as well?
In this episode, we discuss:
0:02:16 - Oliver’s experience that led him to write the book Four Thousand Weeks
0:05:59 - Human’s relationship with time and the struggle with the finite nature of time
0:10:15 - How productivity can be a trap
0:17:45 - The fallacy that being more efficient will open up more time and bring a feeling of control
0:25:14 - The paradoxical nature of trying too hard to be present in the current moment
0:30:33 - The value of relationships in meaningful experiences and fulfillment, and how time gets its value from being shared
0:42:09 - The importance of time synchronicity
0:48:07 - Identifying your biggest priorities and the paradox of wanting to do more than you have time for
0:55:37 - Oliver’s moment of clarity in 2014
0:59:25 - The role of a sense of purpose in fulfillment
1:10:36 - Reconciling the finite nature of time and letting go of trying to master your time
1:18:58 - Why we tend to have a future-focused attitude and how to combat that with atelic activities
1:27:36 - The power of shifting your perspective about time and your experiences
1:36:54 - How to operationalize the three principles for the dilemma of finite time
1:46:05 - Harnessing the power of patience in the face of a problem or experience
1:53:58 - The value of incrementalism for being productive
1:58:34 - Embracing your finitude with curiosity
2:02:10 - Acting on an idea in the moment rather than letting the idea be the obstacle
Mr. Attia may God’s peace be with you.
Recently caring for my mother with dementia for about 8 years until her death ... spending some time with her other 95 year old friend since then is washing my mind of getting through the list, desperately seeking time-saving tricks and the like. I still do those things of course, years as a single parent and high school math teacher demanded such behaviors ... but then catch myself and have a giggle. It's over when it's over. Until then locate a pace that supports peace, balance and a nice momentum and I do the things that pump those endorphins and neurotransmitters for me. Of course I forget, get derailed, pick myself up, dust myself off, have a good laugh at my antics ... and keep moving, no throwing. You and your guests inform, entertain and provide fuel and fodder in a most generous way. Thank you for sharing your lives.
I had a 45 year career ... as basically a professional workaholic. I was a consultant, so time was money, and time management was my currency. I thought everything would change when I retired ... I'd kick back and not worry about time. After several years of retirement, I've found I'm just as busy as ever and I never quite get through my to-do list. So, I REALLY needed this podcast. The problem is not better time management techniques. Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one who stared in stupefaction at the pages of Heidegger in grad school.
Oh my word. It feels like you have just hit on EXACTLY what I'm going through. This is the debate in my head. Probably most of our heads. Thanks for grappling with it. I don't feel so alone now.
I’m about to turn 40
And feel like I haven’t done anything with my life.. no wife no kids etc. needed this episode.
you still got time brotha 👍
You are not alone man. 42 in a few months and still looking for meaning. Maybe ill be looking forever and that's my path. 10/10 introvert just like Peter Attia.
It's arguable whether kids should even be viewed as a worthy milestone in life. I'm younger, but I hope I'll not have kids when I'm 40. There's a whole childfree movement right now of people like this. Rarely do I hear of childfree people in their 60s, 70s, or 80s who regret it. Personally, I'm not even worried about negative effects on happiness (parenting happiness gap, as it is called in studies) but I think the world has enough people, so it is not good for others and , when you're willing to risk taking a hit on happiness by having kids, the effect on the world is the same as abandoning a kid whom you could have adopted.
So it's hard for me to see having kids ever that are my own.
@@joech1065I guess I’m entirely the opposite. I have two kids and my regrets is not having kids earlier. They vastly boosted my sense of purpose
I have kids, education, personal accomplishments, house...I still feel it's not enough. It's all in our heads😅 I feel I need to hit the road and travel as slow or fast as I want, and then I'll get the feeling of IT. But we all know it's not really possible. As long as we solve, play, struggle, move...we are alive.
Really enjoying this conversation as I have had the very same existential thoughts my entire adult life.
It’s a miracle we’re here. -Peter Attia
Possibly the most valuable episode you’ve done to date.
Initially, I wasn’t so interested in the topic, but thought I’d give it a go. I knew that the topic “really” was about emotions, particularly the emotion of anxiety, which helps you plan for the future. And possibly shame and panic, among many other emotions. But I doubted they would come up. However, I was delighted at about 20 minutes or so when Peter mentioned death. I said boom, there you go. Panic helps us deal with life-threatening situations. And then sadness and grief were mentioned. Awesome! Nkw we’re getting somewhere. Perhaps it’s the idea that if we plan everything out well enough and are as efficient and productive as possible, we won’t have these difficult emotions. We won’t be humans living human lives. No amount of good planning and productivity systems will change that. There js always enough time, though, to live a human life, with everything that includes, including all the ways we can experience time. So good. So fragile.
One of the most needed episodes ever! Thank you, Peter!! I’ll rewatch it several times and read the book.
Well done Peter and Oliver. I took away many useful ideas for life.
Wonderful dialogue, thank you for sharing. About the role of the sense of purpose part - I kept thinking about JR Tolkien’s Silmarillion. He writes there about elves how they know about gods that created them, know the entire past and the future. And it feels that the ultimate purpose and meaning in human’s life is that ability to somehow to get to know entire past and future and get to know how and why “there is something instead of nothing”. Lack of this knowledge is what “tortures” human beings and at the same time appears to be a blessing according to JR Tolkien. If that knowledge is somehow obtained then Time probably ceases to exist.
I went to visit my 102-year-old aunt with 7 of my cousins yesterday.
When we walked in, she said, "Oh, the kids are here!" Our ages range from 55 to 85.
This woman was born in the Roaring 20s, was a teen in the depression, and was a young woman in WWII, watching her friends and family go to war. Unbelievable to me.
Yet the song as a thread through this visit and this episode is Harry Chapin "Cats in the Cradle," because I feel we really never have enough time with our loved ones.
Be well everyone and love life.
Coming up on the realization that genuine self care and valuing yourself might lead to:
"I don't do anything I don't want to, I don't work if I don't want to, and I am never productive for productivity's sake, unless I want to be". Life, personal purpose, and the enjoyment of both 🎯
I found that realizing what i value is just that, only what i think, to be very liberating. I have no impact on others perceptions. For example, let’s use having the belief that maximizing ones time with ones children is of the highest importance so one tries to do just that. One has to be satisfied with those acts and the decision to do so; one cannot expect anyone else, including the children, to find value in that time. The children may wish they had more time with friends, other adults, grandparents, coaches, etc. People’s perceptions are always biased towards what they don’t have instead of appreciating what they in fact, do have. In other words, i have no control over my legacy as that is what other people think of me; I can only control (and that’s even debatable) my actions. Focus on internal rewards!
Excellent! Im getting those 4 books. I wish u'd interview the other 3😉
Hi, could You list the other 3 books please? Forgot to take notes... :)
First of all, I read the book on your recommendation a good while ago and it was transformational. This video is fantastic as well. Truly important.
But, damn, Peter!!! How good does your camera shot look now!!! #lighting #clarity
I remember taking my boys to the playground in a park when they were 5 and 7 years old. There were a couple of older kids on the playground who were a bit rough. I'll never forget the moment I realised that if I wasn't there, these older rough kids would have killed my children.
Love your shirt Dr. Attia.
Any Brazilian watching your Chanel will love it ❤️❤️❤️
I realze after listening once is that i get rageful if things take longer than i think they should. I blame myself for being incompetent as the cause of any, literally ANY problem encountered in a project.
Peter, if there's one place I recommend you visit before you die it would be the UpperRoom in Dallas, TX. I believe there is an absolute paradigm shift awaiting you there. All the best.
What the Living Do
by Marie Howe
Johnny, the kitchen sink has been clogged for days, some utensil probably fell down there.
And the Drano won't work but smells dangerous, and the crusty dishes have piled up waiting for the plumber I still haven't called. This is the everyday we spoke of.
It's winter again: the sky's a deep, headstrong blue, and the sunlight pours through the open living-room windows because the heat's on too high in here and I can't turn it off.
For weeks now, driving, or dropping a bag of groceries in the street, the bag breaking,
I've been thinking: This is what the living do. And yesterday, hurrying along those
wobbly bricks in the Cambridge sidewalk, spilling my coffee down my wrist and sleeve, I thought it again, and again later, when buying a hairbrush: This is it.
Parking. Slamming the car door shut in the cold. What you called that yearning.
What you finally gave up. We want the spring to come and the winter to pass. We want whoever to call or not call, a letter, a kiss - we want more and more and then more of it.
But there are moments, walking, when I catch a glimpse of myself in the window glass, say, the window of the corner video store, and I'm gripped by a cherishing so deep for my own blowing hair, chapped face, and unbuttoned coat that I'm speechless:
I am living. I remember you.
(Poem written by Marie Howe to her younger brother that had died from AIDS)
1:08:01 "Her finely touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs."
George Eliot, Middlemarch
Thank you Peter and Oliver for a great discussion. Peter, you may also enjoy the book 'Life Is Short' by Dean Rickles on this topic.
1:03:13 this sounds like a problem of scale. Your purpose is what genuinely lies within your reach. A modest aim sincerely pursued is sounder than something more fantastical. And what do we risk sacrificing for the latter?
I’ve always said it this way
“Time and space is a placeholder for eternity”
Stoicism
So life has no real purpose and all endeavors are basically worthless in the big scheme of things. An ancient book written about 900 BC says it succinctly and fully agrees with you philosophers/doctors. Before you eliminate these carefully written and preserved writings, take a peak into one of the books, called Ecclesiastes, right past the book of poetic songs and the book of wisdom in the Bible. You may be surprised by what you find there, and you may even find some satisfying answers. I care about you guys as I feel your anguish over the many serious topics that this podcast presented.
Pay Yourself First 1:41:09
The problem with being in the moment is that manytimes the moment is a terrible moment.
A question, sadly not immediately relevant.... I do a 2 hour bike ride every Saturday, zone 2. I read that I should fuel this with something like 6og carbs immediately before setting off and the same mid way. Of course there are variants. I want to know if taking in simple sugars for this purpose is OK or a bad idea? Sugar seems to be vilified in daily life, but when it comes to 1 hour plus endurance, it seems plenty go for simple sugar, water and maybe a pinch of salt whe exercising.
I'm loving this conversation. Can I suggest Peter approach Iain McGilchrist, author of 'The Master and his Emissary' to expand on these concepts.Thank you.
Literally on my second listen had to do a back to back immediately
This is a great conversation.
Peter, I understand your feeling about your children but remember you may get that time when you have your grandchildren. Grandchildren are an amazing way to add meaning and the sense of legacy to your life. Just wait and see-your grandchildren are everything ❤
Who was the philosopher they spoke about that preceded Heidegger?
Dogen. Zen philosopher.
great episode
Which are the other 3 books? Anybody know?
1) Bill Perkins: Die With Zero
2) Arthur Brooks:
3) Ryan Holiday:
synchrony not synchronicity
Yet, if we had infinity time with kids, per si, maybe we wouldn’t appreciate it as much. That could be another impossible task of trying to have enough time with something we want because wanting something and having only so much time are the same thing/inseparable
I think it was Dogen who said you are time
Yes. And everything else is also time, or your time I believe
I think Appreciation is a good antidote for anxiety as well as bringing one into the moments they want to be attentive to…. Also, Appreciation maybe even cools the aversions one might have with other things since your attitude has changed becoming more of an advantageous one.
We make up concepts reflecting reality then try to solve the concepts we made up
….. is this guy a covert zen master or something?!
OMG, I’m exactly in the need enough time with kids predicament as well
Peter's looking for a unified theory has an interesting parallel to finding a Unified Theory of Everything in physics. Physicists look for a theory, dream of a unified theory, but we haven't found one yet. We may not even be close. But we have theories that work perfectly well in different contexts. In practice, these theories allow us to get quite far in understanding the world around us. Maybe that's all you need in life as well?
Two hours is tooooo long for any podcast.
ruclips.net/video/5h5zurZsIQY/видео.html Opening to Annie Hall (Nails It)