I just watched two videos, one where a guy made one with a 3d printer and another used aluminum foil from a pack of gum. They both referenced your videos for inspiration. This transparency is needed more in the world
Brilliant material! Much to my wife's dismay, I spent a chunk of our vacation watching every video on ribbon mics, ribbon replacement, corrugation tools and resonant frequency tuning that I could find. Royer is very open and free with its knowledge so I respect Royer immensely. I have over 40 ribbon mics and am very partial to RCA for many personal and romantic reasons. I have 5 RCA BX 44, 13 RCA 77s as well as a handful of BK5A and 74Bs. But I am adding some Royers. David's work is admirable. He has pushed the state of the art. Making the motor as a removable component is a stroke of genius. Easy maintenance and ribbon placement and tuning. Thank you John, you make amazing videos.
I can’t see any info in the cut sheet about the r-10’s spl handling when reversed. Will I damage the mic by reversing it near a loud source, or will it just distort as the ribbon is driven into the non-linear range? Thanks.
I feel like the screws on one of these transducers are worth more than my cheapo chinese ribbon mic all together :o jokes aside, these are beautiful. I love ribbon mics just on their technicality, but I don't record any music. I don't think I could justify getting one of these just for VoiP
Usda pair of 121 on piano with a great player with A WIDE DYNAMIC RANGE, SUPER
5 лет назад+1
Hey Royer! :) i always wondered if the the wavy surface of the ribbon causes phase issues since the soundwave hits the ribbon at a different time. does this make a difference ? have you experimented with only corregating parts of the aluminum foil?
The spacing on the corrugations has virtually no effect on phase because the spacing is so close. We have experimented with non-corrugated ribbons and they do not perform as well as a corrugated ribbon because they lack elasticity.
5 лет назад+1
@@royerlabs oh cool thanks a lot for the answer! I found out the beyerdynamic m160 has only a a few waves and then a big part that is not corregated and i really wanna find out why... love ribbons so much and i experiment around myself but some things are not measurable for me. And there is another experiment i want to do myself. I got that idea from motorbike suspensions and that is progressive corregating. So the corregations on the ankerpoint are bigger and get smaller to the middle. That means it stays responsive but is stiffer when it gets stretched. Sorry for all the unneccessary information i just love your ribbon mics and experimenting ^^
you said the transducer "moves in response to sound pressure" several times but I thought ribbon mics responds to the velocity of sound waves - something like an anemometer and not a pressure gauge- this being the difference in phenomenology between a ribbon mic and both dynamic and condenser mics that do - in fact transduce sound pressure.
I came up with a question this month that the Internet has not solved for me. I watched videos from Royer about using an oscilloscope in X-Y mode to produce a Lissajous curve to set the ribbon to the exact right tension based on the resonant frequency. OK, I understand but I will be damned if I know where to place the two scope probes! If you put them on each end of the ribbon they are in phase so the Lissajous is in phase regardless of frequency. Maddening. Any thoughts? I don't even know who to ask!
i don't really get the ribbon offset to the front thingy, if sound is constructed out of sine waves, then for positive pressure the ribbon wil move to the back of the mic, but then for equal negative pressure the ribbon wil move equal distance to the front, right?? wont the ribbon because of the offset get out past the magnets even further then if it would be centred ?? (lets say the ''dampening screens'' would not be in place) most likely im missing some important information, this is just the first thing that crossed my mind when he said their mics are able to handle higher spl's because of the offset ribbon. tom
The purpose of the offset ribbon and wide flux gap is to make certain that as the ribbon is driven harder the ribbon remain in the most powerful area of magnetism. Regarding sound wave, rarely does audio content consist of sign waves, so thinking in those terms could be misleading. In practical terms, the front of the microphone is directed to the stronger acoustic source and the rear, which is out of phase, receives mostly ambience. We were very careful when we designed the offset ribbon technology and calculated the dampening screens size, and porous properties of the screen, as well as ribbon dimensions and flux gaps.
@@royerlabs This discussion reminds me of a question I've always had about ribbon transducers. I know back in the day, radio actors were placed on opposite sides of the mic for recording dialogue. Today, recording engineers place different sources on each side of the mic. Why doesn't the ribbon fight itself trying to pick-up sound pressure from both sides at the same time?
@@chansetwo If I understand your question correctly, the ribbon does 'fight itself' when multiple sounds hit at the same time. But so does everything... your ears, etc. Sounds are always combining and altering eachother... for example certain frequencies of sound are boosted or cut, depending on room dimensions, as the sound waves either add together or cancel eachother out. So it's not really the ribbon fighting with itself, but the two sounds on each side of the ribbon. Bose noise cancelling headphones would be another example. The dimensions of the magnets and steel frame affect this as well... the larger they are, the more high end roll off there is in the sounds... or rather, the roll off begins at a lower and lower frequency as size increases.
@@chansetwo that is interesting to think about; what comes to mind is that with two completely different sound sources on opposite sides of the mic the complexity of the timing of the sound waves and their differences, (that is how differently they hit the ribbon element in time, intensity and frequency compared to each other), those differences are so great that we probably don't perceive very much of the cancellation summing etc. effects that could occur if it was the same source reflecting off the room and back into the back of the mic (or even the single source being loud enough and close enough to the front to reach around to the back and create what I was speculating could be a natural form of gain reduction/compression, a discussion that I would like to see talked about. I see that as a very natural form of gain reduction or compression).
@@hxhdfjifzirstc894 looking at magnetic flux intensity is a subject too often ignored as to the sensitivity of the mic and damping effects not only in amplitude but also in frequency response and true sound reproduction
The folds give the foil structure. Being less than 10 microns, the ribbon has no strength. In other words, folds make the ribbon not tear in normal circumstances .
Royer wrote here on a different question: "We have experimented with non-corrugated ribbons and they do not perform as well as a corrugated ribbon because they lack elasticity."
Just finished my latest ribbon mic and didnt use ribbon mic foil its too expensive and far too fragile I used the foil from a film capacitor, costs nothing is very rugged and much easier to work with.
I just watched two videos, one where a guy made one with a 3d printer and another used aluminum foil from a pack of gum. They both referenced your videos for inspiration. This transparency is needed more in the world
Brilliant material! Much to my wife's dismay, I spent a chunk of our vacation watching every video on ribbon mics, ribbon replacement, corrugation tools and resonant frequency tuning that I could find. Royer is very open and free with its knowledge so I respect Royer immensely. I have over 40 ribbon mics and am very partial to RCA for many personal and romantic reasons. I have 5 RCA BX 44, 13 RCA 77s as well as a handful of BK5A and 74Bs. But I am adding some Royers. David's work is admirable. He has pushed the state of the art. Making the motor as a removable component is a stroke of genius. Easy maintenance and ribbon placement and tuning. Thank you John, you make amazing videos.
Nice to meet another ribbon freak 👏🏻
Thanks for putting this together guys. Really appreciate the education and deep dive into your transducers.
You're very welcome!
@@royerlabs It was an excellent video. Would love to see one detailing the difference between high-end and budget ribbon mics.
These guys made our lives easier !!
🙌 We try!
Wow awesome explanation and awesome mic 👍
Very good and meaningful video. Thanks John!
You're welcome!
Worth every penny!
Wish I had some old R-121 ribbon mics.Use the on my logic pro all the time…☮️🔥
sir pls, explain step up transformer winding ratio wire turns lenght all off
Thanks!
You're welcome!
I can’t see any info in the cut sheet about the r-10’s spl handling when reversed. Will I damage the mic by reversing it near a loud source, or will it just distort as the ribbon is driven into the non-linear range? Thanks.
I feel like the screws on one of these transducers are worth more than my cheapo chinese ribbon mic all together :o jokes aside, these are beautiful. I love ribbon mics just on their technicality, but I don't record any music. I don't think I could justify getting one of these just for VoiP
Usda pair of 121 on piano with a great player with A WIDE DYNAMIC RANGE, SUPER
Hey Royer! :) i always wondered if the the wavy surface of the ribbon causes phase issues since the soundwave hits the ribbon at a different time. does this make a difference ? have you experimented with only corregating parts of the aluminum foil?
The spacing on the corrugations has virtually no effect on phase because the spacing is so close. We have experimented with non-corrugated ribbons and they do not perform as well as a corrugated ribbon because they lack elasticity.
@@royerlabs oh cool thanks a lot for the answer! I found out the beyerdynamic m160 has only a a few waves and then a big part that is not corregated and i really wanna find out why... love ribbons so much and i experiment around myself but some things are not measurable for me. And there is another experiment i want to do myself. I got that idea from motorbike suspensions and that is progressive corregating. So the corregations on the ankerpoint are bigger and get smaller to the middle. That means it stays responsive but is stiffer when it gets stretched. Sorry for all the unneccessary information i just love your ribbon mics and experimenting ^^
Wow !!! Incredible video, thanks so much for sharing. : )
Some of us love to know why and how. This video is like “Crack”.
you said the transducer "moves in response to sound pressure" several times but I thought ribbon mics responds to the velocity of sound waves - something like an anemometer and not a pressure gauge- this being the difference in phenomenology between a ribbon mic and both dynamic and condenser mics that do - in fact transduce sound pressure.
Execellent
I came up with a question this month that the Internet has not solved for me. I watched videos from Royer about using an oscilloscope in X-Y mode to produce a Lissajous curve to set the ribbon to the exact right tension based on the resonant frequency. OK, I understand but I will be damned if I know where to place the two scope probes! If you put them on each end of the ribbon they are in phase so the Lissajous is in phase regardless of frequency. Maddening. Any thoughts? I don't even know who to ask!
can larger magnets be used? 100x10x10mm Will the performance be good?
i don't really get the ribbon offset to the front thingy, if sound is constructed out of sine waves, then for positive pressure the ribbon wil move to the back of the mic, but then for equal negative pressure the ribbon wil move equal distance to the front, right?? wont the ribbon because of the offset get out past the magnets even further then if it would be centred ?? (lets say the ''dampening screens'' would not be in place) most likely im missing some important information, this is just the first thing that crossed my mind when he said their mics are able to handle higher spl's because of the offset ribbon.
tom
The purpose of the offset ribbon and wide flux gap is to make certain that as the ribbon is driven harder the ribbon remain in the most powerful area of magnetism. Regarding sound wave, rarely does audio content consist of sign waves, so thinking in those terms could be misleading. In practical terms, the front of the microphone is directed to the stronger acoustic source and the rear, which is out of phase, receives mostly ambience. We were very careful when we designed the offset ribbon technology and calculated the dampening screens size, and porous properties of the screen, as well as ribbon dimensions and flux gaps.
@@royerlabs This discussion reminds me of a question I've always had about ribbon transducers. I know back in the day, radio actors were placed on opposite sides of the mic for recording dialogue. Today, recording engineers place different sources on each side of the mic. Why doesn't the ribbon fight itself trying to pick-up sound pressure from both sides at the same time?
@@chansetwo
If I understand your question correctly, the ribbon does 'fight itself' when multiple sounds hit at the same time. But so does everything... your ears, etc. Sounds are always combining and altering eachother... for example certain frequencies of sound are boosted or cut, depending on room dimensions, as the sound waves either add together or cancel eachother out. So it's not really the ribbon fighting with itself, but the two sounds on each side of the ribbon. Bose noise cancelling headphones would be another example.
The dimensions of the magnets and steel frame affect this as well... the larger they are, the more high end roll off there is in the sounds... or rather, the roll off begins at a lower and lower frequency as size increases.
@@chansetwo that is interesting to think about; what comes to mind is that with two completely different sound sources on opposite sides of the mic the complexity of the timing of the sound waves and their differences, (that is how differently they hit the ribbon element in time, intensity and frequency compared to each other), those differences are so great that we probably don't perceive very much of the cancellation summing etc. effects that could occur if it was the same source reflecting off the room and back into the back of the mic (or even the single source being loud enough and close enough to the front to reach around to the back and create what I was speculating could be a natural form of gain reduction/compression, a discussion that I would like to see talked about. I see that as a very natural form of gain reduction or compression).
@@hxhdfjifzirstc894 looking at magnetic flux intensity is a subject too often ignored as to the sensitivity of the mic and damping effects not only in amplitude but also in frequency response and true sound reproduction
I have 2 R101's they are on my guitar cabs along with a SM57 99.9 % of the time I record electric guitar
R10...any thoughts!?
What would happen if you didn't corrugate the foil?
The folds give the foil structure. Being less than 10 microns, the ribbon has no strength. In other words, folds make the ribbon not tear in normal circumstances
.
It would rip and flex
Royer wrote here on a different question: "We have experimented with non-corrugated ribbons and they do not perform as well as a corrugated ribbon because they lack elasticity."
you can all so make that Ribbon mic into a Ribbon Speaker
Just finished my latest ribbon mic and didnt use ribbon mic foil its too expensive and far too fragile I used the foil from a film capacitor, costs nothing is very rugged and much easier to work with.
because neodymium magnets can do that people will start experimenting more with them as time goes by its future tech pasta maker lol