If you have a presenter with a PowerPoint presentation they are going to look at the screen so put the microphone on the side that they will be turning in their head to see the screen. I managed to get myself all turned around and occasionally get it on the wrong side. I've been waiting for a couple videos like this.
never work, they just turn the head around 180 lika a fkng lama, best placement is in the center and they're gonna still be able to speak looking at the ceiling like the exorcist and wonder why the mic don't pick up.
@@mattiacenacchi726 HAHAHA good point that's just what I've had the best luck with. And puts the microphone away from the camera side. but it doesn't matter I don't work for him anymore he's decided to replace me with a volunteer, We're going to see how Saturday goes..... I found the side that the screen was on made the most sense as that way when they're looking at the audience I can set one level and when they inevitably turn their head towards the screen i'll go and set the compressor to limit the increase. Considering the talks that I was working on I am not surprised we didn't have exorcist level clients coming in talking about how aliens are running the government and everything's gonna fall apart in two months. Or my personal favorite all the food that comes to the grocery store is evil OK now time for lunch go enjoy the fine items they have upstairs at the hotel restaurant bought from the store....
@@mattiacenacchi726 just realized I have another answer to that. They're not paying me enough. no literally they're not paying me enough and then the guy decided after 4 years to not pay me for 6 months then tell me my services weren't needed. So so that's not the type of fun problems I got to deal with on this job. Seems like working with possessed individuals would've been more fun. Although I am not seeing my reply from the other day.... RUclips! It was some thing about placing it on the side opposite the camera and closest to the screen. That way when they're looking at the audience there's a consistent level and when they look at the screen the level goes up and can be adjusted with the compressor. As you generally want them squinting trying to look at the audience or their laptop rather than behind them at the projector.
Great video. This is basically my exact workflow too but took lots of trial and error to get there; wish I saw this video 10 years ago. Would be cool to see one on how you prefer to organize your Dante I/O patching for Rios/RF/avios too.
Thanks, Jesse! I've spent more time recently on the A&H Avantis desk and have been experimenting with some of their processing there, including the DYN8. Next time I'm on a show with an extensive Dante rig I'll see what I can capture and share.
Yep, front fills need to be top of mind for me when adjusting EQ on a Lav during a corporate event. I start changing the channel when I might need to just correct the fill matrix. Sometimes I remember to start there, sometimes I change everything by mistake.
Great video, thanks for the advice! One important addition: Yamaha automatically adds a channel to the Automix Pre-Fader. So if somebody is going backstage and you muted this persons channel and the person is talking into the mic this could mess with the level of the other speakers in the automix. That's why I'm always inserting the automix Post-Fader. I'm actually not that sure whether this only happens when you mute the channel by turning down the fader and not if you use the mute button... Maybe if you mute by pushing the mute button this will also affect the Pre-Fader insert point..
Thanks for this one. I see more corporate gigs in my future. I've used a wireless lav for an event before and it did not go well and had to switch to a handheld mic halfway through because of feedback. I was dealing with a very limited set up and speaker placement options. This lav was omni and the speakers were too close so it was feedback city.
Mac tip, zoom! System preferences, accessibility, zoom, use scroll gesture with modifier. I personally like command+option hold those two keys down and with any mouse with a scroll wheel even the trackpad it will zoom in the screen. There's also in an advanced options box that lets you tweak how things behave when you hit the edge of the screen. You can also usually by default use command+option+plus or minus.
Nice video Michael and a good topic; corporate work is where the money is at! Something you might want to add is how to configure X/M 32 consoles to use groups rather than the default mix bus behavior because it's not that straight forward. Also, maybe a comment on how old-school groups allow you to do group processing whereas DCAs do not. And for anyone who hasn't tried using the automix feature on their digital consoles, you should definitely give it a go. I was really impressed by how seamlessly it works on the X/M 32. After watching this video I will have to see if there is a dynamic Eq available in the X/M 32 rack.
Thanks, John! Those are great ideas. There's not a dynamic EQ on the X/M32 series desks, but there is a unit called the combinator that's a multiband compressor, which can do some similar processing.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Thanks Michael, I am a X32 user. I don't do cooperate show but I do have 2 Shure GLDX with WL185 Cardioid Lavalier Microphones at church that have been giving me a lot of feedback problems. I have not been satisfied with the sound either. So I am very thankful for your vid. Could you please explain how to configure the combi multiband compressor?
i agree with every thing you say, man. bang on, solid advice. i will add that depending on the console, some parametrics aren't as precise as the yamaha on a group output or in general. the soundcraft is super soft butterknofe in the Q department to my ear. the yamaha is like a scalpel by comparison
heyho, im working in theaters since 14 years. I can say that we work with lavs 99% of the productions we do. The Trick is to make very wide and deep cuts on the problematic frequency areas . The surgical the EQ gets the more issues you will have with moving Actors on stage. I can get Lavs with this technique REALY feedbacksafe befor having an issue. there is alwys a balance of having them realy thin sounding and enoug body, but thats the only line i have to work with. Also i realy can recommend dynamic eqs on top of it , just to smooth it out .
I run sound at a decently large church. We have a very dynamic band and i run music anywhere between 90-95 dba and our pastor loves using a lav. Its very awkward to mix when he comes up to exhort during the transitions between music and speaking. I have to pull music back by about 5+ bd when he walks on stage. My eq is WILD to try and keep some of the room bleed out. If i give .5 db of gain i get feedback.
5045 looks great, going to try it tomorrow. Does it still work fine on a lav bus? Manual says it should be used on the input channel but if you have it working well on the (post duganned) bus than that would be great!
I do things a bit differently when on a DM/PM series desk and yes I'll have a separate group for all mics I'll send to a dialog group just for the stream. I'll usually insert the DaNSe processor on it as well as a dynamic EQ.
Do you set your gain to reach -18 or less for lavs ? Feels like it’s picking up everything around with the gain set to optimal (-18 on a Yamaha desk for example) Great vid !!
I usual set the gain just under -18dBFS for lavs to get a little room just in case the presenter yells or gets loud. The relationship of background noise vs the voice is completely linear no matter if I have low or high gain. Yes, if you gain your preamp up louder you're getting more overall level, so you'll hear more background noise, but it's not introducing any "extra" noise.
I'm curious with the gain ducking - what happens if two people are talking and you want both to be heard? Does it let through anything that's hitting that gate, or just the highest one? Cheers!
what about when we are dealing with Lavs in large reverberant, untreated spaces with no software for analysis... i have to use the graphic and quite drastically to cut looping frequencies out... there is no other way right?
Wouldn’t it make more sense to put the primary source enhancer on the channel inserts rather than on the lav subgroup? A quiet speaker vs a loud speaker on a panel would need different settings. What are your thoughts?
Great question! Yes, that would be the ideal situation, but I often have more wireless channels on my desk than premium rack inserts slots available to have a PSE one each channel. And I want to save some of those for the Dynamic EQ, etc.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Awesome, I figured as much. I just wasnt sure if the PSE would work well on the lav bus, but I am definately going to try it next time! Trying to manage multiple dual PSE's is to stressful!!!
Has anyone ever had to do a panel discussion with 10 open Lav’s on an Soundcraft SI Expression 1 in a corporate environment where speaker placement is not optimal due to room layout and aesthetics? I’m also limited by what the seller’s place on the order. They sell it and I just have to make it work. The SI Expression is the most common console in the company I work for. I am no longer a technician aka A1/A2, I am an Operations Manager. But I still cover Operates from time to time to fill in for labour ratio/revenue reasons.
another good tip is keeping your lav group selected so you have a pan knob for it at your fingertips. this is super under-utilised and will save you when a presenter goes rogue into the audience and decides to stand right in front of a speaker you can pan them to the opposite side of the room and compensate with more level on their fader and you don't get feedback and the talking remains intelligible without interrupting the speaker.. obviously your A2 should brief them not to do that when they are getting wired up but they still do it!
i'm an a1 in training and was wondering, after setting up your matrixes, which eq should i start with when ringing out the room? and should i go through this process using geq or peq? also if i have a podium mic in the same setup, how should i incorporate that in the process of ringing out?
Assuming that you've optimized your PA's placement, coverage, and tonality and the podium's placement vs the speakers, I'd get your input gain on the podium channel at a nice healthy level and route it through a group, then the group to the stereo bus. I'd then EQ the podium mic at a reasonable level (but not yet pushed to feed back) to sound great for the room as well as in your headphones (for the stream). THEN, push the level of the bus and use some parametric EQ to target any specific feedback frequencies if you need more headroom.
I worked an event where there were 2 lectern mics on a podium and the 2 MC's had lav mics. I put all 4 mics on the automixer. Would you recommend this? Is there a way to set priority to the lavs over the lectern or will the automixer automatically prioritize the lav because it is closer to the source?
Why don't you use additional pink noise input to the auto mixer. If is set up properly, you will get dead silence when no one is talking. And also it can clean a lot of mess with scratching and other noises that people can generate during the event.
I've heard of that technique, but have never tried it. That would assume that the ambient mics would have to be mixed sufficiently hot in the PGM feed to cover any of the sudden "dropouts" from the ambient noise lost in the lavs. Just wouldn't want it to sound too choppy in the house. I'll give it a try in rehearsals on my next corporate gig.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio If it is "hybrid" event when you have some live audience - sure. Because you're basically muting all on-stage mics, there is total silence from time to time. So thats right - you need to put more ambient. But if you are mixing full online event, from the studio - using noise as a "mute" trigger in Dugan, with this technique you can get rid of all that "hum" that you get from all the lightning equipment arround. Give it a try next time, I use it almost all the time, on every console - from X32 to Digico+Waves ;)
@@Topi_S My only fear is someone whose a soft talker getting choked out when they start a sentence, but like you said, if I get it really dialed in it would hopefully be a non-issue. I'll give it a shot!
How do you handle comb filtering between two lavs on side by side speakers? I get this on pastor and groom in weddings. Currently I’m riding the faders as needed. Yamaha MG12 mixer. Thanks!
That's a tough one! Since each lav is close to both of the guests you're getting comb filtering due to their different propagation paths. It doesn't look like the Yamaha has MG12 has a Dugan for automixing in it, so riding faders is unfortunately the best you can do at this point.
! That’s the most important moment from my side, to find correct gain structure between body pack and gain on your console. I use old analog Shure and for me working +12 on body packs and about +5db on console.
we just need to ban them, I work often in events with lav change every ten minutes while changing the eq in not treated enviroment(cause is more beatiful) and a rain amplification (cause is more beautiful) and with just lav (cause is more beatiful) and they wonder why I can't turn up the volume enoyugh while I can do it with a regular radio sm58...........worst days ever
If you have a presenter with a PowerPoint presentation they are going to look at the screen so put the microphone on the side that they will be turning in their head to see the screen. I managed to get myself all turned around and occasionally get it on the wrong side. I've been waiting for a couple videos like this.
never work, they just turn the head around 180 lika a fkng lama, best placement is in the center and they're gonna still be able to speak looking at the ceiling like the exorcist and wonder why the mic don't pick up.
@@mattiacenacchi726 HAHAHA good point that's just what I've had the best luck with. And puts the microphone away from the camera side. but it doesn't matter I don't work for him anymore he's decided to replace me with a volunteer, We're going to see how Saturday goes.....
I found the side that the screen was on made the most sense as that way when they're looking at the audience I can set one level and when they inevitably turn their head towards the screen i'll go and set the compressor to limit the increase. Considering the talks that I was working on I am not surprised we didn't have exorcist level clients coming in talking about how aliens are running the government and everything's gonna fall apart in two months. Or my personal favorite all the food that comes to the grocery store is evil OK now time for lunch go enjoy the fine items they have upstairs at the hotel restaurant bought from the store....
@@mattiacenacchi726 just realized I have another answer to that.
They're not paying me enough.
no literally they're not paying me enough and then the guy decided after 4 years to not pay me for 6 months then tell me my services weren't needed. So so that's not the type of fun problems I got to deal with on this job. Seems like working with possessed individuals would've been more fun.
Although I am not seeing my reply from the other day.... RUclips!
It was some thing about placing it on the side opposite the camera and closest to the screen. That way when they're looking at the audience there's a consistent level and when they look at the screen the level goes up and can be adjusted with the compressor. As you generally want them squinting trying to look at the audience or their laptop rather than behind them at the projector.
Making corporate audio better one video at a time. Great video, excellent advice.
Thanks a ton, Phillip. I've learned the majority of this stuff from you, so happy to have your blessing ; )
@@MichaelCurtisAudio sir why do podcastors use lav mic even when they have a dynamic mic.
Great video. This is basically my exact workflow too but took lots of trial and error to get there; wish I saw this video 10 years ago. Would be cool to see one on how you prefer to organize your Dante I/O patching for Rios/RF/avios too.
Thanks, Jesse! I've spent more time recently on the A&H Avantis desk and have been experimenting with some of their processing there, including the DYN8.
Next time I'm on a show with an extensive Dante rig I'll see what I can capture and share.
Yep, front fills need to be top of mind for me when adjusting EQ on a Lav during a corporate event. I start changing the channel when I might need to just correct the fill matrix. Sometimes I remember to start there, sometimes I change everything by mistake.
Thanks Michael, super useful. Got a couple corporate gigs coming over the next few days so I'll be better equipped to approach the shows.
You're welcome! Hope this helps you out on those upcoming gigs.
Great video, thanks for the advice!
One important addition: Yamaha automatically adds a channel to the Automix Pre-Fader. So if somebody is going backstage and you muted this persons channel and the person is talking into the mic this could mess with the level of the other speakers in the automix. That's why I'm always inserting the automix Post-Fader. I'm actually not that sure whether this only happens when you mute the channel by turning down the fader and not if you use the mute button... Maybe if you mute by pushing the mute button this will also affect the Pre-Fader insert point..
It just depends on where you have the insert point. if It's post-fader, you're in the clear!
I need to start low-cutting my Front Fills a little more. Wonderful explanation.
As always, very useful stuff. Thanks, Mike.
You're very welcome!
Thanks for this one. I see more corporate gigs in my future. I've used a wireless lav for an event before and it did not go well and had to switch to a handheld mic halfway through because of feedback. I was dealing with a very limited set up and speaker placement options. This lav was omni and the speakers were too close so it was feedback city.
Yea, that doesn't sound like a fun gig!
Mac tip, zoom! System preferences, accessibility, zoom, use scroll gesture with modifier. I personally like command+option hold those two keys down and with any mouse with a scroll wheel even the trackpad it will zoom in the screen. There's also in an advanced options box that lets you tweak how things behave when you hit the edge of the screen. You can also usually by default use command+option+plus or minus.
Nice video Michael and a good topic; corporate work is where the money is at! Something you might want to add is how to configure X/M 32 consoles to use groups rather than the default mix bus behavior because it's not that straight forward. Also, maybe a comment on how old-school groups allow you to do group processing whereas DCAs do not. And for anyone who hasn't tried using the automix feature on their digital consoles, you should definitely give it a go. I was really impressed by how seamlessly it works on the X/M 32. After watching this video I will have to see if there is a dynamic Eq available in the X/M 32 rack.
Thanks, John! Those are great ideas.
There's not a dynamic EQ on the X/M32 series desks, but there is a unit called the combinator that's a multiband compressor, which can do some similar processing.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Thanks Michael, I am a X32 user. I don't do cooperate show but I do have 2 Shure GLDX with WL185 Cardioid Lavalier Microphones at church that have been giving me a lot of feedback problems. I have not been satisfied with the sound either. So I am very thankful for your vid. Could you please explain how to configure the combi multiband compressor?
Great tips for the subgroup. Thanks!
i agree with every thing you say, man. bang on, solid advice. i will add that depending on the console, some parametrics aren't as precise as the yamaha on a group output or in general. the soundcraft is super soft butterknofe in the Q department to my ear. the yamaha is like a scalpel by comparison
Great point here! Yes, Yamahas are very exact, especially when on the Precise setting for EQ.
Thank you for this great video. Really helped me a lot.
heyho, im working in theaters since 14 years. I can say that we work with lavs 99% of the productions we do. The Trick is to make very wide and deep cuts on the problematic frequency areas . The surgical the EQ gets the more issues you will have with moving Actors on stage.
I can get Lavs with this technique REALY feedbacksafe befor having an issue. there is alwys a balance of having them realy thin sounding and enoug body, but thats the only line i have to work with. Also i realy can recommend dynamic eqs on top of it , just to smooth it out .
Great tips! Thanks for sharing.
this is very helpful, i do sound engineering for corporative events, thanks.
Can you please make a video on how to properly mic up a presenter with a Lavaliere microphone.
Excellent video!
Thank you very much.
Thank you for this video. Very helpful!
You're very welcome!
thank you for sharing 🙂
Thank you for this!
You got it!
Heads up. You are my new best friend.
: )!
I run sound at a decently large church. We have a very dynamic band and i run music anywhere between 90-95 dba and our pastor loves using a lav. Its very awkward to mix when he comes up to exhort during the transitions between music and speaking. I have to pull music back by about 5+ bd when he walks on stage. My eq is WILD to try and keep some of the room bleed out. If i give .5 db of gain i get feedback.
outstanding!
Thanks, Dave!
5045 looks great, going to try it tomorrow. Does it still work fine on a lav bus? Manual says it should be used on the input channel but if you have it working well on the (post duganned) bus than that would be great!
Nice approach, when you have a streaming you do another group for the mic's do have a more clean send to the streaming?
I do things a bit differently when on a DM/PM series desk and yes I'll have a separate group for all mics I'll send to a dialog group just for the stream. I'll usually insert the DaNSe processor on it as well as a dynamic EQ.
Do you set your gain to reach -18 or less for lavs ? Feels like it’s picking up everything around with the gain set to optimal (-18 on a Yamaha desk for example) Great vid !!
I usual set the gain just under -18dBFS for lavs to get a little room just in case the presenter yells or gets loud. The relationship of background noise vs the voice is completely linear no matter if I have low or high gain. Yes, if you gain your preamp up louder you're getting more overall level, so you'll hear more background noise, but it's not introducing any "extra" noise.
@ thanks !
I'm curious with the gain ducking - what happens if two people are talking and you want both to be heard? Does it let through anything that's hitting that gate, or just the highest one?
Cheers!
what about when we are dealing with Lavs in large reverberant, untreated spaces with no software for analysis... i have to use the graphic and quite drastically to cut looping frequencies out... there is no other way right?
Wouldn’t it make more sense to put the primary source enhancer on the channel inserts rather than on the lav subgroup? A quiet speaker vs a loud speaker on a panel would need different settings. What are your thoughts?
Great question! Yes, that would be the ideal situation, but I often have more wireless channels on my desk than premium rack inserts slots available to have a PSE one each channel. And I want to save some of those for the Dynamic EQ, etc.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Awesome, I figured as much. I just wasnt sure if the PSE would work well on the lav bus, but I am definately going to try it next time! Trying to manage multiple dual PSE's is to stressful!!!
Has anyone ever had to do a panel discussion with 10 open Lav’s on an Soundcraft SI Expression 1 in a corporate environment where speaker placement is not optimal due to room layout and aesthetics?
I’m also limited by what the seller’s place on the order.
They sell it and I just have to make it work.
The SI Expression is the most common console in the company I work for.
I am no longer a technician aka A1/A2, I am an Operations Manager. But I still cover Operates from time to time to fill in for labour ratio/revenue reasons.
another good tip is keeping your lav group selected so you have a pan knob for it at your fingertips. this is super under-utilised and will save you when a presenter goes rogue into the audience and decides to stand right in front of a speaker you can pan them to the opposite side of the room and compensate with more level on their fader and you don't get feedback and the talking remains intelligible without interrupting the speaker.. obviously your A2 should brief them not to do that when they are getting wired up but they still do it!
Yup, great tip!
i'm an a1 in training and was wondering, after setting up your matrixes, which eq should i start with when ringing out the room? and should i go through this process using geq or peq? also if i have a podium mic in the same setup, how should i incorporate that in the process of ringing out?
Assuming that you've optimized your PA's placement, coverage, and tonality and the podium's placement vs the speakers, I'd get your input gain on the podium channel at a nice healthy level and route it through a group, then the group to the stereo bus. I'd then EQ the podium mic at a reasonable level (but not yet pushed to feed back) to sound great for the room as well as in your headphones (for the stream). THEN, push the level of the bus and use some parametric EQ to target any specific feedback frequencies if you need more headroom.
I worked an event where there were 2 lectern mics on a podium and the 2 MC's had lav mics. I put all 4 mics on the automixer. Would you recommend this? Is there a way to set priority to the lavs over the lectern or will the automixer automatically prioritize the lav because it is closer to the source?
I'd put all four mics in the automixer, but only have one of the lectern mics unmuted and use the other as a backup.
Great super useful inte.
Glad this was helpful!
I don’t know if it would be a bad idea . To use a Dugan auto mixers on a single headset mic for a pastor. What is your opinion?
An automixer wouldn't have any benefit with just one microphone. It only does its job when it is taking into account two or more sources.
Why don't you use additional pink noise input to the auto mixer. If is set up properly, you will get dead silence when no one is talking. And also it can clean a lot of mess with scratching and other noises that people can generate during the event.
I've heard of that technique, but have never tried it. That would assume that the ambient mics would have to be mixed sufficiently hot in the PGM feed to cover any of the sudden "dropouts" from the ambient noise lost in the lavs. Just wouldn't want it to sound too choppy in the house.
I'll give it a try in rehearsals on my next corporate gig.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio If it is "hybrid" event when you have some live audience - sure. Because you're basically muting all on-stage mics, there is total silence from time to time. So thats right - you need to put more ambient. But if you are mixing full online event, from the studio - using noise as a "mute" trigger in Dugan, with this technique you can get rid of all that "hum" that you get from all the lightning equipment arround. Give it a try next time, I use it almost all the time, on every console - from X32 to Digico+Waves ;)
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Works really well when set right!
@@bartoszjaworski4378 Will do! Thanks for the tip.
@@Topi_S My only fear is someone whose a soft talker getting choked out when they start a sentence, but like you said, if I get it really dialed in it would hopefully be a non-issue. I'll give it a shot!
1. Send the lav Mic to a Sub Group 2. Ring out Your mic on the Sub Group not on the pa system did i forget anything ?
That's part of what I covered, yes.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Okay thanks but question this will be off topic by y the rigger's measure the pa when deploying it ?
How do you handle comb filtering between two lavs on side by side speakers? I get this on pastor and groom in weddings. Currently I’m riding the faders as needed. Yamaha MG12 mixer. Thanks!
That's a tough one! Since each lav is close to both of the guests you're getting comb filtering due to their different propagation paths. It doesn't look like the Yamaha has MG12 has a Dugan for automixing in it, so riding faders is unfortunately the best you can do at this point.
@@MichaelCurtisAudio Got it! Thanks so much for your reply!
@@donnycollins1797 You're very welcome!
@@donnycollins1797 You're very welcome!
How do u get lav to hit -18db peak or average? how much do u usually increase from the bodypack or receiver or mixer gain?
! That’s the most important moment from my side, to find correct gain structure between body pack and gain on your console. I use old analog Shure and for me working +12 on body packs and about +5db on console.
@@Bora_plus When you say old analog Shure, could you please tell me what model. I am using a GLXD. Just wandering if it's the same.
@@danielalexis9409 they are not so old, ur4d and Axients analog
Corporate are pretty easy in opinion.
we just need to ban them, I work often in events with lav change every ten minutes while changing the eq in not treated enviroment(cause is more beatiful) and a rain amplification (cause is more beautiful) and with just lav (cause is more beatiful) and they wonder why I can't turn up the volume enoyugh while I can do it with a regular radio sm58...........worst days ever
What’s a lawv?
A "lavalier" or "lapel" mic.
Learned a lot! Thanks!!
You're welcome!