The Man Who Could Sight-Read Anything on the Piano
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- I'm Robert Estrin. This is LivingPianos.com. Today I'm going to tell you about the man who could sight-read anything on the piano.
Full Article: bit.ly/38MxtGD
LivingPianos.com
Franz Liszt: ‘allow me to introduce myself’
Eddie Hutchence Franz Liszt after playing etude Op.10 No.1 at tempo 😂
@@imme8471 He sigh-read that étude
@@brnico6184 he sight read all the opus 10 Chopin etudes lol at tempo
Ogdon was much better at sight-reading than Liszt was
That was a great story Robert! loved the video. thank you.
Keep it up, Champ!!
Love your vids Paul 👍
Paul Barton well richter and ogdon were two sight readers. If you glorify the story then they must have been fools not to have saved via recordings for posterity and access to unheard music. Including pianists, lecturers and recording companies.
They did let john ogdon get drunk.
A contributing factor
There is no love in the music industry for ppl have rejected me.
A journalist wrote to me about my channel and asked me these questions.
1. When did you start making RUclips videos and why?
I started in 2007 i think. I was tired of hearing the same music being repeated in concerts. I am talking about pianist recitals here. Though this can be seen in orchestral concerts with familiar repertoire. Listening to radio 3 concerts (UK) i began to see the same Symphony and cried out not this again. This is still great music don’t get me wrong but life is short. How much meaning can exist in a piece at the expense of others? That is like saying one human is greater than all others. Excepting Jesus Christ obviously but that is not ‘great’ in the sense of superiority but his role as a servant(among other things) among humans.
I feel there is among certain people in classical music a certain supremacy of composers and their pieces. I am not saying they don’t deserve to be held in high esteem but it is more of a questioning how this reflects on lesser composers and pieces being programmed, aired, discussed in lectures etc. I always try to reflect Jesus in what i do. Don’t get me wrong here. I am not saying my behaviour is anywhere close to Jesus i am merely giving an example of a standard of a way of handling life and illustrating it. For example Jesus served the poor or any not highly held in society. Music can be guided similarly. Some composers are not held highly. So i suggest how Jesus would treat people and treat composers with a bit more kindness.
I wanted my channel to fill in the gap that was missing on the radio or concert programs. I also wanted to finely tune my musical sensibilities like an athlete tweak their muscles to perform in their sport. I actually believe people want to hear neglected works and my attempts are in the process of achieving it. You have to take a stand however isolated or silly it may seem. You look at a person isolated from a disease they are faced with taking a personal stand. They sometime succeed and sometimes fail. Life is serious.
2. What do you enjoy about doing it?
How varied 7 notes can be and how much can be expressed through them. How every emotion or thought can be experienced. How it can engage you to confidence or discipline you in quietness. How it keeps me on my toes and how unattainable it can feel on days. How it consumes me but how it can lead me into contemplation on issues by suggestions expressed through a chord or bar. How music has been grafted into my day to day routine. You must subdue it for even good things can spoil.
I consider myself for want of a better word that has no negative things surrounding it : honoured, privileged, to have access to all the great music that a composer painstakingly wrote out. I do actually weep that some people choose not to experience it. That is very sad. I would like to change that. I do understand that people may not be able to relate to it but i think that is an excuse really. Jesus expected people to love their enemies and forgive. That can be a mountain to climb at times because this is based on your attitudes of love but surely loving music is not a big task compared to this? And it might keep one or two out of trouble.
3. Do you have any frustrations with it, or with RUclips as a platform?
I think it is brilliant. I am lucky to be born in this generation that tries to exploit its potential. Exploit meant in a good sense. The only thing i would say is a nightmare is the upload and naming of videos and inserting information. It can be time consuming but that is part of it. Can’t avoid it.
The main frustration is not with RUclips but who RUclips is created for. The people.
My audience is made up of people who know what sight-reading is and those that don’t. My issue is with people who do know and don’t support or acknowledge the work i tried to do.
I have a frustration with the musical establishments and perhaps those musicians that are aware of it. I expected encouragement after all they keep on saying to the public and the government to fund them with musical instruments that music is good for the wellbeing of the individual. Actually it is those individuals that have caused the most pain mentally.
There is a BBC documentary about British pianist John Ogdon. ‘Living with genius’ i think is the title. In it Stephen Hough a pianist contributes on this subject. In it he said,’people were jealous of John and his ability...’. Please understand i am not saying i have the same level of sightreading ability as Mr Ogdon had but showing that there may be that jealousy with my channel being acknowledged. Does my music have to be perfect to be acknowledged? They obviously are loving people. Is their love towards me perfect to ignore my content? Is love lesser to them than music? I would ask Stephen Hough what he thinks of my channel, would he be supportive or be as those he condemned with John Ogdon?
As you know a person can claim to be loving.
However Love has a standard. I know i don’t reach it. We need to be disciplined in getting to know what love is. Let me jump into Politics here. We have these politicians boasting of policies to cure society. No! I say drop these policies or put them on hold and get back to basics. Talk about what Love is. Most people have families. Out pops the word Love. We have a bond. But this bond should then lead on to common-sense. Not all people have loved ones. There is something flawed with love itself or humans if we do not rectify it. Why do we praise love if this love can not help others without love? Once you answer this question and where it leads you begin to understand why the economy behaves as it does from country to country. We have to lean on each other than be cut off islands.
If people addressed the issue of love perhaps my frustrations on RUclips would be removed. I may be somebodies enemy but love decides to set that rift aside temporarily or even permanently because of the bond of music or the bond of love.
The best illustration of this can be found in the Christian church. I am not talking about the bad a Christian may do but what the Church actually achieves. We have all these individuals from diverse backgrounds who would never meet up on the outside world and WILLINGLY sit together sometimes happy sometimes not. But always with the potential to solve disputes because of the pastor( or what leaders within that particular church) sitting down; because they love Jesus Christ and want to be what humans were originally designed to be. If you want to know read how Jesus acted from day to day.
This is what the Church has over secularism or any other group against the idea of the Church. The Church is multicultural. It deals with issues that Politics can not handle. Because Jesus Christ is not put in Politics and kept separate. Look at the hate within society.
4. Is there any work you are particularly proud?
I remember at the very start of my love of music around my early twenties. I took the musical scores that my dad owned - his father played the piano. Toveys edition of Beethoven piano sonatas and Chopin sonatas and Polonaises. This was before I had any real understanding or knowledge about who they were - only told on the radio to be ‘giants’. I was intrigued. I pictured Beethoven sitting down with his hand playing the notes and I felt a connection because I was doing something similar. Rather dubious now about what he played since his deafness prevented him from performing. That is what initially drove me.
It is hard to answer the question because I can be proud of playing a single chord, melody or bar and just thinking, ‘this is great’. Then you get the sense of accomplishment. Something meaningful - though that is hard to define. Appreciating what a person wrote. Leaves you in awe at the skill. I feel obligated to get it out there as a lot of work went into it.
Its when I finish something or during it I think,’ i am actually playing some of the greatest music ever conceived’. That is quite a sensation. It also makes me dwell on my own desire about what I could strive for. Makes me aim big - whether that is wrong or right is what arguing with yourself involves. That can be swell.
5. Can you see yourself making RUclips videos in 5 years time?
In order to understand the possible contexts of the piano notes A-G you require to play melodies and harmonies. It is like a scientist looking into everything they can find out about an element - so they do experiments and it leads to information that can be known about the element e.g. mercury. Basically thats how I approach music. Every piece of music is like an experiment. If you take this note with that note at that precise moment you get --. I don’t like to judge a piece of music and not play it and limit my audience. A pianist should play or rather serve the audience or individual for if Jesus Christ demanded we love serve then surely we can apply some of this in music. Was it Ravel that hated Debussy or/and vice versa? Or any composer really. Competition brings out the ugly side of people. Not that I have never done similar. But as Bruce Lee spoke in Longstreet, ‘i have found the cause of my ignorance’.
To answer your question I hope RUclips exists in the future or I have the ability and motivation to play. There is quite a lot of music out there and I want to absorb it and play it back to the public. I am searching for a word that doesn’t make me arrogant or be overly proud (perhaps there isn’t?) such as ‘greatest’ or ‘best’ but this word wants to achieve something of those qualities. A bit like respect. Like someone saying, ‘this guy knows his subject’.
Yo it's Paul Barton
At one point, during my university years, as a roomate I had a Korean conductor Chai Dong Chung. He was in his thirties and already he was the conductor of the national Korean radio orchestra. He was phenomenally musical. His scholarship to the New England Conservatory, which the South Korean government paid, was in a programme there in which he excelled incredibly. One day a friend brought over to our apartment a full score of one of the editions of a Bruckner symphony, massively complex as Bruckner's music tends to be. It was a work that he had not encountered yet at that point in his then still young life. He sat down at my grand piano and played it perfectly at sight. I was astonished, but, then, he was always able to do that with any music, even very complex 20th century musical scores. Such people exist on this strange planet!
What training did he go through to get there, how many hours did he sight read a day?
Liszt was an amazing sight reader too, he sight read Chopin's Etudes IN TEMPO, sight read the piano accompaniment and violin part of Grieg's violin concerto, and was known to be able to sight read in a different key - one time, the flute of a flutist that he was accompanying was sharp so Liszt sight read the piano accompaniment a half step above.
Not only was Liszt a brilliant composer, he was also an amazing sight reader.
xotwod25 *and probably the best pianist of all time
xotwod25 GOSH!!
* Brilliant Composer
* Musician
* Sight reading
* Able to transpose while sight reading
The LISZT goes on and on
Yes, i thought Liszt is the man in the Video... actually Liszt went to Vienna when he was Young cause he sight-readed the first few pages of the "Hammerklaviersonata" (Beethoven), that amazed Hungarian Counts. We shouldnt Forget Brahms was also a really good sight-reader. He sight-readed the complete b-minor Sonata (Franz Liszt) which is an extremly hard piece as well!
I've never heard of Grieg Violin Concerto...
Just got through reading about Liszt sight read Henselt's horribly difficult piano concerto in front of Henselt himself, who said it was a feat that "may never be repeated". Unbelievable!
his name is tom brier
not anymore lol
home.coffee hah ! Scrolled down to comment the same thing. Glad you didn't disappoint
Funny. I was about to comment this myself. Tom is a legend
home.coffee I thought that before even clicking the video😂
@@joshuayue854 stfu
john ogdon was a tremendous man! time to listen to him. Merry Christmas!
Yes exactly, the first person I thought of when I read the title of this video.
John Ogdon was my grandmothers cousin, a direct relative of mine. I feel quite privileged.
Very impressive!
In a similar note, I had a teacher coming from Moscow Conservatory who knew Tatiana Nikolayeva and reported she could read multiple page complex scores for the first time without playing a single note and, then, play the whole piece without the score and with no mistakes.
Thanks for sharing Robert!
You are not only a great musician but a great (and kind) storyteller! Thank you!
It takes years of constant practice to develop good sight reading.
DeLuca Piano and probably a very high iq
I improved my sight reading by playing loads and LOADS of Mozart
While this is true. I also think the younger you start, the better. Music is a language, and learning it later is kinda like trying to learn a new language in writing as an adult. It's gonna be far more difficult that way.
I had a piano teacher who worked with kids down to ages 4 in the day time and did lessons with adults in the evening, and he always said he had a much easier time teaching this to children, as they just sorta absorbed it like a sponge at that age.
John Ogdon was one of the best pianists of the Twentieth Century,a real genius with a gorgeous technique and talent.Iwould recommend his monumental renditios of Brahms and Liszt piano concertos.
A Franz Liszt anecdote: Grieg took his newly composed piano concerto for the master to inspect, and Liszt asked him to play it. When Grieg declined saying he hadn't practiced it, LIszt took the manuscript and played it up to speed with great flair and elan. Then turning to Grieg he said, This is really good, sir! Keep it up!
Unfortunately, Grieg didn't take the master's advice and only graced us with the one great piano concerto.
John Ogdon: Watch me sight read anything
Franz Lizst: * Clears throat * Hold my piano
But still John Ogdon was a better pianist than Liszt so I guess you lose some you win some right?
Ogdon was witnessed sight reading Mahler Symphonies from full score, and Boulez 2nd Sonata.
@@Dany715gd bruh?
I was good friends with the head of the Godowsky Society, the late Harry Winstanley. He told me about his meeting with John Ogdon back in the 1970’s. John was interested in seeing the then out of print score of the Passacaglia by Godowsky. He arrived at Harry’s house and they went to the piano. John asked Harry to turn pages for him. Before playing he visually scanned the page and then nodded for Harry to turn the page. John was half way through the third page before he started playing the piece from the beginning and he continued to memorize two and a half pages ahead of where he was playing. For Harry, it was an incredible experience to witness. This was the piece that Horowitz said he needed six hands in order to play it. Although there are many recordings of this piece now, there were no recordings then.
That proves perhaps that Horowitz was not the greatest pianist....
@@TheRonnos I'm sure Horowitz was saying a quip to express that it was relatively technically difficult.
This account converged with a similar account by Ronald Stevenson, who knew Ogdon from childhood. It seems he'd also retain what he had sight read for years, if not for life.
John Ogdon was an absolute genius!
That’s a great story, Robert! Thanks for telling it.
As a concert saxophonist, I had some absolutely amazing pianists for duo partners. I transcribed the Prokofiev Flute Sonata in D down a step so that I could play the flute part as written on soprano sax. The woman who played piano with me was Tara Emerson, on the vocal accompanying staff at SMU (I wasn’t a student there; we met through her sister), and even though this part was written in D and transcribed down to C - where things became very awkward, she read it first time. In fact, I couldn’t keep up; I hadn’t fully learned the part yet. Plus, she could make it sing. She was a gifted pianist, and we had great fun with that, playing it all over half the country.
I was a very good sightreader on sax. For another duo with clarinet I transcribed difficult arrangements that sounded like more than two instruments. Our first gig was for a Van Cliburn Foundation fundraiser where we got to meet Van, who complimented us on playing so well - something he didn’t often do for orchestral instruments, I am told, unless you were really good. What he didn’t know is that the ink was barely dry on our arrangements, and we were mostly sight reading it! That was in the early 1980s.
Then 3 years ago I retired, moved to the ranch, and bought a grand piano. I started practicing piano seriously for the first time in my life. I can sight read ok with the right hand - the treble clef that I played all my life on sax. My bass clef is still fumbling, but improving daily. I play Bach, Skryabin, Chopin, Debussy, Grieg, Prokofiev, and... well... everything I can find for many hours every day. Sight reading is my nemesis, but I’m really working on it and getting better. What I’m discovering, though, is how amazing it is to play the piano. I improve literally every day, yet I can’t imagine the mental processes that are taking place which allow me to do so. I thought the piano would be next to impossible for me, but it’s actually happening! I have tremendous respect for anyone who can sightread well on the piano. It’s an amazing instrument, and it proves the human mind is capable of “impossible” things. Seeing how easy it was for someone like Arthur Rubinstein or John Ogden, I’m excited about the prospects for improving the workings of my brain instead of watching it diminish over the next 20 years.
By the way... your videos have been a huge help to me. Just enough to work on for a day until the next video, and always quick and to the point. You’ve got your head on straight, my friend!
The piano can be a real beast for sight reading no more so than with that old warhorse of music school, Bach’s Well Tempered Clavier. It’s one thing when the left hand is relegated to a supporting role for right hand carrying most of the melodic elements. But with the Fugues you have 3 or 4 separate melodic parts taking turns playing the subject and counter subject and iterations in different keys which occur as much in the lower and middle registers as they do in the top voice. Add to that obligatory trills that finish a phrase like, say, in an inner voice while the outer voices are playing something completely different, and it seems an impossible task to deliver a convincing performance a prima vista. Plus, we in the modern era don’t really think in terms of strict imitative counterpoint - it was considered a relic of the Middle Ages even in Bach’s time.
I love hearing your stories Robert! Keep up the good work!
Wonderful story. I love that he not only nailed each and every note, but played it at a brisk tempo to boot! Nothing but good things would result from improving one’s sight reading skills. A teacher once told me when you look at a music score (that you don’t necessarily know) it should speak to you in the same way a passage of prose or poetry does.
Thrilled by your description of playing with Ogden, as I have just been reading a biography of this remarkable man. His breakdown in later life was very sad and very distressing for those close to him.
My father, OHS, Jakob Gimpel, sight read music at the level of a savant. When he sight read, it was not merely a tempo, but as if he had studied and practiced the piece till he knew it inside-out. He must have been in his early teens when he started learning the Chopin Etudes. he told me with great pride that when he first saw Op. 25, No. 11 ("Winter Wind"), he read it through at sight without a hitch, whereas, so it was said, even Liszt had trouble playing it at first sight. I grew up in my father's house, heard him practice, improvise, and play almost every day, yet many of the things he did continue to amaze me even today. I once asked him if he knew anybody who could sight read as well as he, and he answered, without a pause, "Yes. Artur Balsam. Phenomenal. And Bronek (the great virtuoso violinist Bronislaw Gimpel, his younger brother) is also a phenomenal sightreader."
Nonsense
Your father's work for the award-winning Tom & Jerry cartoon, 'Johann Mouse', was sublime! :) I cringed whenever the orchestra took over in typical fashion, but transcribed by hand some of the piano sections, back when I was in university. There, I learnt with someone who had private lessons with John Ogdon; Charles Hopkins, a quite brilliant man and wonderful pianist. His obituary to John Ogdon is marvellous and correlates well with Robert's description of a warm-hearted gentle giant with astonishing pianistic talents. When I played Charles your father's playing (which I had on tape) from J.M., he thought it had to be two players, but I insisted it wasn't... :)
Sholem Gimpel Andre Previn was also a phenomenal sight reader...😊
Robert Estrin:Greatest sight-reader in the world
Me:I bet but can he adapt to every genre in a flash of a pan.
Excuse me for butting in here: Obviously sight reading presupposes that you know the style, or know so many styles that you find it a nice change and challenge to play something different. You need to have tons of harmony-theory, lots of basic fingerings and the ability to play skips without looking at the keys. And of course solfeggio, understanding rhythm helps (I wonder if there's also some pianists who tune their piano so as to get perfect intonation, sorry that was off topic.)
Ah, this is my dream though 😂👍 then I sit down and it’s all ‘1 e....and a..2 e and...a...’
Fantastic story, I wonder how John honed the skill. Love hearing about your Father in your videos too
How you getting on with your project?
As a violin student at the Peabody Conservatory (late 70's) I joined pianist, Leon Fleisher who was the conductor that summer at the Round Top Music Festival, south of Austin, headed up by pianist, James Dick. One day I found myself sitting next to John Ogden. He was a big man sitting there with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. We had no conversation, but as Robert said, it was known among all of us that his sight-reading was flawless.
Gary McAleer each piece is different. U can only witness what you heard.
He made mistakes. I sight read but i know how unsupportive musicians are.
The best sight reader ever was a pianist at the National Antwerp Opera.I witnessed that guy sight-reading entire Wagner operas whilst at the same time joking with me..Every single note was played .That pianist was only 18 when he took that job.
Tom Brier
I loved this story as I have never came across his name before! thank you
I just watched this for the second time, the first having been a few years ago. I’m a concert saxophonist/flutist who switched to piano at age 65. Having played treble clef most of my life, I had some catching up to do. Now, I’ve worn. A lot of hats in the music business, including MIDI arranger, recording engineer, show arranger, and conductor/music director, so it’s not like I wasn’t familiar with the keyboard and the clefs. But to sight read on piano the way I could on sax or flute? No way. When I watched this a few years ago, my mind was blown that Ogden could read that way. I’ve known some good readers, performed with some, but like you said, everyone has limits. Ogden’s talent blew my mind. Since then, however, I’ve gotten better. There are moments in time when I’ve practiced for about 5 hours, and I kind of get into a trance. When that happens, my piano skills are way better than normal. I have on just a few occasions been able to sight-read some incredibly difficult stuff - at tempo - by Scriabin, Chopin, Brahms, Bach, and others. I wish I could learn to summon that at will, but apparently there is a mental block that limits me until I’ve been practicing for hours, and things are flowing. But here’s what’s interesting: when that happens, I’m seeing the music in 3 dimensions, and I’m reading non-linearly. I glance at some patterns in the right hand, then some in the left, and maybe even have to glance twice at something to discern a chord cluster. I’m doing this while reading, but I’m way ahead of my fingers. I put all that together almost like a MIDI program puts together many tracks, and it sounds like one. Each of those patterns is an object of its own, and they’re not so much on a timeline - left to right - but they’re in front of and behind each other. Like I’m flying through clouds or mountains, and I can see them ahead of me and to the left of me and to the right, and behind… and they all have their locations per beat and bar line, and they come in right on cue. I’m going to go out on a limb right here and suggest that extremely high-proficiency sight-reading on piano is non-linear. I think your mind is racing so fast that it has time to see these things, make sense of them, and queue them up for playback.
Also, I’ve noticed a trick that helps promote this: never look down at your hands, but visualize them at the keyboard. Sometimes you have to look down for a large leap, but for smaller leaps, learn where they are without looking. These breakthroughs that I cannot summon at will are teaching me to be able to do this. Those moments are like previews of where I’ll be in 6 months, a year, maybe 2 or 3 years. But they provide me with a trail of breadcrumbs that I can follow to get there. So far, it’s pushing me ahead a lot faster than I thought I would go. Oh well, I thought you might find that interesting; especially the non-linear, 3D part. There’s something to that.
When I clicked on the notification (without seeing the picture) I thought it was going to be about Tom Brier, but then I realized he is still alive. So after that it was a tossup between Liszt and Ogdon.
Great story! Thank you! John Ogdon attended my high school, The Manchester Grammar School and the LP I have of him playing the Liszt B Minor is second to none.
Loved the story! My mother was a great Jazz pianist. The bond of music is a magical bridge from "I'm your parent!" to "I'm a loving peer." So Wonderful you shared music with your father, and he shared his music with you!. Always love your videos and love of music. You are great gift to many! Please don't stop sharing your vast knowledge. Discovery is the prize! God Bless.
Fantastic!! Wonderful wonderful story!!!! The music director at our high school had an incredible ability to read music, perfect pitch etc. Tough marker though. BUT, because I started writing music for the stage band, and didn't bother to write any of the tests, he still gave me an 80% :-)
Do you have some footages of your father and you playing together?
Bruh
Liszt could sight read anything. He sight read all of chopins etudes at tempo first sitting
as well as the Grieg piano concerto
I’ve wondered about that. Liszt also had the ability to emulate another composer’s style. Perhaps what people heard was a mix of sight reading and flourishes in the style of Chopin.
No, I've never heard that Liszt sight read all of the etudes, just the first one in C. And for some there is controversy for what on tempo meant for Chopin and Liszt.
Who said that
He did the same thing with Balakirev's Islamey, at tempo as well.
I always enjoy what you have to say. You do it without condescension. You make hearing and playing all levels of music seem within reach and this inspires all levels of pianist. Thank you.
As a young pianist this is my dream and I’ve been practicing daily to achieve it 🤩🤩🙏🙏☺️
I believe Liszt could sight read piano concertos, and even symphonies, and play them flawlessly, at speed, playing all parts together.
Liszt did exactly this, with Grieg's Piano Concerto, from (a messy) manuscript. Grieg himself witnessed it, and was floored.
yes, I've heard that also.
searchers WOW
* sight reading concertos
* sight reading symphonies
* playing them flawlessly
* playing them at speed
* incorporating all the parts
The LISZT just goes on and on.
Yes, Liszt. Could sight read orchestral score manuscripts, bringing out all of the melodies, and REMEMBER IT FOR DECADES!!! I read a story in one of his biographies that he, at a party, was approached by a guy with an orchestral score which he sat down and played flawlessly. Decades later in his old age, someone mentioned this event, and Liszt sat down and played the piece again, with no music and having only sight read it once from the score many years int he past!!!!
One of the greats once commented (I forget who this was) that “Liszt was only fun to play with when he was sight-reading; after that he got bored, improvised and added so many things that the piece was barely recognizable”.
“Let us never put anybody on a parallel with Liszt, either as a pianist or a musician, and least of all as a man,” wrote the Russian virtuoso Anton Rubinstein, “for Liszt is more than all that - Liszt is an ideal!”
Great story-so amazing. I studied music for years, yet, still a crappy sight-reader!! LoL! Those genius-types amaze me. Thanks for posting this.
Absolutely incredible story. How did he do it? I think he had two rare super skills. Some people have super visual acuity. Others have a photographic memory. I believe this gentleman had them both.
When he was 18/19 he was asked at the last minute to play Brahms 2. The conductor noticed that he leaned over to see the next bar if the page turner was a bit slow. Asked him about that later and John said that he knew of the piece but had not played it before.
I have heard of many similar instances in John Ogden's life - pretty amazing!
@@LivingPianosVideos Ogdon, not Ogden. He used to stay with a cousin occasionally before he was famous - she recalled that once when they were stuck in a car in snow he happily climbed in the back to bounce up and down. Played at my school.
@@LivingPianosVideos When Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum was delivered, he played it by sight - about 4 hours.
Yes, I also guessed this was going to be about Franz Lizst. Do we know how good a sight reader he was?
So good that Chopin himself was flabbergasted.
Supposedly he read Grieg's piano concerto at sight when Grieg brought it to him.
Even Grieg
could perform piano concertos at sight.
could transpose bach preludes/fugues on the spot.
James Ditsworth ABSOLUTELY. He was able to
* sight reading concertos
* sight reading symphonies
* playing them flawlessly
* playing them at speed
I mean, the *LISZT* just goes on and on.
Great homage to a legend of a man... John Ogden was amazing, what a shame his playing was spoilt by ill-health, Very Sad story
Merry Xmas! And thank you for this story! I have known two and ½ people who could sight read without effort (and dared to do it while people were listening). I had the opportunity to watch the hands and fingering at one occasion, and what I noted is the agility of thumb and fingerchange same key. In the Telemann piece you demonstrated it would probably be fatal not to find a suitable fingering at one, still many super-pianists jump on the keys without effort (two notes same finger and the like). But what I remember being told about one of them, Friedrich Gürtler, is that he recommended practising thumb from white to black as legato as possible (bending the outer joint!) -- Merry Xmas!
I can sight read anything...very slowly! :P
same here lol
Sight reading or playing everything by ear... I know what i would choose. What does every best musician have? A great eye or ear?
Eye
I'll talk in terms of sight reading vs memory. I am a great memorizer but am a poor sighter. It was because I was so good at memorizing that I neglected my reading, as pieces I wanted to learn I would memorize straight away then discard the music to practice. Because I could memorize so easily from the start (age 6), I could learn pieces much quicker that way than actually learning to read well.
I came to Diploma level without being able to actually perform with music, and as many say "how can he play without the music", for me it was "how can he play with music".
I have observed that those who sight read, regardless of memory ability, will be able to enjoy their piano more than those who would have unlimited memory retention but can't read well.
As for ear vs eye, that's a hard call, as if one is an excellent improvisor, they can play full-on just by ear and without music, just as someone who can sight read anything can play full-on with music. It's a hard one, but I might go with ear (improvisation), although both abilities would see the pianist enjoying their music greatly.
You never said what you'd choose! Fess up.
Seen only a couple other folks who can accomplish the types of feats your discussing. The esteemed pedagogy master Gary Amano. We used to sit full orchestral scores in front of him and watch him not only sight read them but create brilliant piano reductions on the spot. Also heard David Golub can reduce symphonic scores to piano reductions in real time, and sight read virtually anything.
Thank you so much for sharing these stories. It always fascinating to hear them.
This is a great story. If you have video of him playing please upload on your RUclips.
This story is also legendary "In what may seriously be one of the most amazing feats of musical brilliance of all time, Peter Maxwell Davies found a copy of Kaikhosru Sorabji's titanic four-hour behemoth, his Opus Clavicembalisticum, in a second-hand shop, and Ogdon promptly played the whole thing, some of the most mind-bendingly, finger-destroyingly demanding music ever conceived for piano, at sight." I heard Ogden often in London. His life was not easy. He married a gorgon, Brenda L, with social ambitions. They moved into a hugely expensive home by Regent's Park. John had to concertise to exhaustion to pay for Brenda's expensive whims. This meant that his performances were often lacklustre - he was just too tired. Despite the fact that Brenda was a second rate pianist and he was one of the greats, she insisted on practicing on the big grand upstairs and made him practice on the 'second' piano in the basement. I only met the man once, but my friends new him well. In the end, he succumbed to mental illness, depression and other psychiatric problems and had to take a lot of drugs. Your story is totally believable. Everyone who had musical contact with him speaks of his ability to read ANYTHING. The last time I heard him live was at the RFH playing Liszt's second concerto. A small group of well know pianists living in London had told me "John has had ten days without a concert, he won't be tired, we must hear him in the Liszt". And how happy I am that I did. It was transcendental musicianship and pianism.
Interesting Story. I have many John Ogdon recordings. I have several MHS Cd's of he and his wife Brenda Lucas. Great recordings!
Pardon me for being pedantic, but you should have written "I have several CD's of HIM and his wife. . ."
There is a local legend pianist around here who is in a similar league: Dr. Robert Holm. I have seen him sight-read fantastically difficult orchestral reductions seemingly with no error or simplification at all. Some people really do go all the way with their sight-reading ability.
I knew John Ogdon very well and could tell you a few tales about his sight-reading - when I've time I'll maybe remember to come back here and post a few. Erwin Nyiregyhazi was an awesome sight-reader, too. I believe he used to earn quite well in the mid-20th century by playing, at sight, full orchestral scores of music written for films, so that the producer and director could hear them quickly. That is to say, not just reading perhaps 20 instrumental lines, but arranging them for 10 fingers in real time. As an opera rehearsal pianist myself I can do that in a limited kind of way, but...
The composer Arnold Bax was by many reports a great sight reader too, able to read complex orchestral scores and condense them to a keyboard.
I believe it.
Tough I think that this level requires not only decades of practice but also there must be something different about his reading to your avarage Pianist.
I can read Complete music books cover to cover,I am self taught.I credit playing the trumpet in a brass ensemble, you were either in or out at the downbeat.we covered all styles in concert .Interestingly that was 20 yrs ago ,in recent times I played a Irish music book straight through on penny whistle.
What a fun story. Thanks!
Thank you for taking the time to post this informative video..... I love the word "negotiate" you used to describe getting down the proper fingering to play a piece.....
Robert, I love the great playing, colorful information and especially your upbeat presenting ("... tied for first place..." @3:52).
Hey, Robert Sir, thanks for hippin’ me to this cat. I checked out a documentary or two on him-incredible yet tragic tale.
John Ogden learnt the Brahms Second concerto in a day after being asked to stand in for a pianist who was ill. He played it off by heart. When someone expressed wonderment at this he retorted, "Oh, but I have heard it many times."
What a great story! And how fortunate you are to have been exposed to such monumental teachers and musicians
2:31 ahhhh even that clap is so satisfying. Truly talented.
Love hearing about John Ogden, would very much appreciate more...
Lovely story.
Dear Robert. Another account I heard was from a radio broadcast some years ago given by Brenda Lucas, Ogdon's wife also a pianist. They were practising the Paganini/ Lutoslowski variations for two pianos. At a particularly difficult section of cross rhythms Ms Lucas was having problems and could not get it right. At this point J.O. asked in his unassuming way "Would you like me to play your part as well". I hear from your account you know this was not an ego trip, John Ogdon was not that kind of person.
Some people have perfect memory and transcendent physical ability. I've seen a guy who doesn't read music and never practices classical music, sit down and play the Winter Wind straight thru. No warm up, no anything, just played it through with no difficulty at all.
I go to sight read a piece. Takes me weeks to get it decent. I listen to that piece just ONCE, and I play it nearly flawlessly at full speed.
Ogany Supreme cute
I have a wonderful photo of a smiling John Ogdon seated on a bus with some people in the background as my desktop wallpaper. There are several good videos about him or with him on YT.
Thats amazing! Did John grow up reading music? reading music is like a whole other language, and starting to learn it as a kid would make it so much easier to learn! Do you know how he got so good at sightreading?
There's a type of genius which evades comprehension. The composer Ronald Stevenson tested Ogdon's sight reading & by turning the page early discovered Ogdon had memorized the whole page when he was still playing the first system. He also discovered that he still remembered the music 10 years later.
John Ogdon was indeed a great pianist.
Where is your ballade tutorial? Can’t find it. It was so usefull
if I was in the Matrix world I’d upload the ability to sight read fast
Wonderful! And such interesting and beautiful insights into your experience.
Thank you!
I didn’t realize your uncle was Harvey Estrin. I love his work with the Sauter Finnegan orchestra in particular.
A verbally Fazioli family endorsed pianist I had the pleasure of working with can sight read almost on John Ogdon's level. His name is Dr. Richard Seiler.
I know this easy for me to say, but my piano teacher can sight read anything too. People have given him unknown scores which he can read easily. He’s simply a completely fluent musician. Is it a rare skill? He has a channel here, Phil Best Piano.
JO sight read the Brahms 2 when the pianist who was engaged to perform fell ill or whatever. The lady who turned the music for him made this comment as she noticed his anxiety to see the next page. Most good sight readers look ahead a few bars. I have most of his recordings and have always had a suspicion that he did not rehearse for some of these recordings but simply sight read the music in the studio. My suspicion was caused by the fact that his interpretations did not reveal that much thought had been given to the composers ideas.
Amazing!
Fantastic insight and great playing....from me, the man who can read bugger all! But I play pretty damn well. Practicing stride piano at 64.....oh well.
I thought you would tell us how John Ogdon could sight read anything :))
Thanks for drawing attention to J. Ogden for us
Thanks so much I always enjoy your videos! Why did zogdon die so young?
Just because I watched a single Tom Brier video
That was such an awesome story, thank you so much for telling it to us! :)
I am pretty sure that Victor Borgia could sight read pretty much anything...perhaps even Chinese opera!
John Ogdon was a great pianist!
Amazing
Getting more and more creative with those intro themes :)
hello me from 3 years ago
Somewhere I read that someone had challenged Beethoven to a sight reading contest. Beethoven went second, and took the music, turned it upside down, and played it backwards. And no one ever challenged him again.
Nope, he was challenged to an improvisation contest against Daniel Steibelt. Once presented with the theme, he laid the sheet music upside down and made a mockery of steibelt.
John Ogdon is one of the most.underrated pianist EVER, he had such a colossal technique, i dare to say comparable with CZIFFRA's, except the fact that he lacked the ability to improvise, and therefore a "custom" technique as Cziffra had, but comparable to Ashkenazy whom he dear God shared the Tchaikovsky 1st prize, well, if ashkenazy wasnt a jew Ogdon would have had to be the 1st prize without any trace of a doubt, comparing him with ashkenazy is like comparing a ferrari with a toyota.
John Ogdon, even with his tragic life because of his mental ilness, was up there amont with Cziffra in terms of piano technique, to say the least.
Just to clarify, Ogdon could indeed improvise ... he was a fine composer. He also championed Jewish composers such as Alkan.
what a legendary experience
so sight reading is like reading the notes as complete words and paragraphs ! Just like we read words not letter by letter 🤔
Love the story! Some people are just incredible :)
Great story, I love John Ogden.
There are gifted people (shall I say "extremely gifted people?") who can simply do things that the rest of us can't even believe can be done. Only god knows how they do what they do!
Ogdon didn't record the Brahms concertos commercially.
What did Ogdon think of Richters sight-reading and does anyone know what Richter thought of Ogdons ability?
Which would you rather be: a perfect sight-reader or an awesome improvisor? Sight-reading might get you a job, but improvising gets you social life.
Both are useful
Great story!
Sight reading seems to be an art/science form unto itself. Reading at that level remains an absolute mystery to me.
I can sight read better than any of my professional musician friends, but I can't memorise music to save my life.
@@mike-williams Is an important trick to sight reading to learn to read without looking at your hands? Would someone like John Ogden sight read without ever looking down at his hands? I am assuming that without being able to do that one could not optimize sight reading ability, but I wouldn't know for sure as I'm not an optimal sight reader myself lol.
@@alantaylor6691 Absolutely, not looking at your hands is an important trick to sightreading quickly. After I learned Liszt's Mazeppa, I became a much better sightreader simply because that piece had forced me to be confident in playing keys without looking at them (or a second's glance). Nonetheless I still consider myself a dismal sightreader.
I believe it. Some people are plugged into the music mainframe.
That was an amazing story Robert! Do you think John Ogdon may be even better than Beethoven and Mozart at sight reading? How do you stack him against the greats?