Playing in eleventh is very interesting, and not to be dismissed. But to my ears, this track sounds like it's in F. Every time it goes from F7 to Bb7, I hear it as I to IV, not as V to I. The F chord just feels much more like home than the Bb. It's not too strange really. Even if you feel it with Bb as the root, the pronounced E notes over the C chord turns it into Bb lydian. But lydian is not the vibe I get either, and I think the reason is that the chords are all dominant sevenths. There's just so much F blues flavor here!
I get how you could hear it that way. Even if you view the Bb-C-F progression as I - V/V -V, it still leans heavily toward the V (F). Myself, I hear it as Lydian. I used this progression partly because I like the Lydian (to my ears) feel, but also as a way of easing into a new position (it was originally created for a student). One way to start learning an unfamiliar position is to find notes that work in that position without having to alter any of the given pitches. That way you can start getting grounded in how the given notes feel agains the tonal center of a new position. Some of them, like root, fifth, and third, will have strong, fundamental relationships with that tonal center, while others, such as the raised fourth in this case, will sound more outside and exotic. I suppose playing against a backing track of only one chord might be a surer way to develop that sense, but I had this track already and it was fun to play over.
@@winslowyerxa8505 Yeah, it sounded fun, and it sure sounded good as well! I really like the sound of lydian as well, both in eleventh and twelfth position. But I feel like in this tune, the Ab in the Bb7 chord and the Eb in the F7 chord makes it sound less strictly lydian. It might be because I'm used to playing other instruments, but I tend to think in scales and melodies, rather than strict positions. I don't really think differently when playing a C harp in C major (1st pos.) or Dm dorian (3rd pos.). To me, a richter tuned harp is already simultanously in all 7 modes of major, if you just use the regular blow and draw notes. What I do feel is very useful though is to learn the pattern of bends that enable you to go beyond those modes. Eleventh position is one such example, but to me, so is playing 2nd position blues, 2nd position in regular minor (which happens to be very close to both of the previously mentioned ones) or playing in sixth position on a country tuned harp (which would be Bm on a C harp). I do appreciate how positions are very useful for putting words to the way a harmonica tuning fits into the music.
I never tried this before. I try to keep some familiarity with 1-5 and 12th, but 11th is new. I pulled up a Bflat backing track and the C harmonica fit right in. It feels very close to 3rd and maybe 4th position, but it isn’t the relative of either of those is it? I’m trying to figure out why it works so well and so easily. I almost feel like I’m playing in 5th but with a half step less bend on the tonic note. Anyway, as you point out, B flat is a popular key, and this way it can be accessed without a suitcase full of harmonicas. Two weeks later: I’ve been trying to figure it out. It looks like 11th position and 5th position share a lot of the same notes. C & E have a relative relationship. Maybe that accounts for the familiar feeling I had when I tried 11th. I’ve fallen down are real rabbit hole here.
@@winslowyerxa8505 OK - 1.12 subs, 120 views so far , 10 likes.... My comment and one other guy calling it "interesting"... I drop the mic now or keep going?
excellent! very interesting style thanks!
Found this very interesting definitely food for Thought😎
Playing in eleventh is very interesting, and not to be dismissed.
But to my ears, this track sounds like it's in F. Every time it goes from F7 to Bb7, I hear it as I to IV, not as V to I. The F chord just feels much more like home than the Bb.
It's not too strange really. Even if you feel it with Bb as the root, the pronounced E notes over the C chord turns it into Bb lydian.
But lydian is not the vibe I get either, and I think the reason is that the chords are all dominant sevenths. There's just so much F blues flavor here!
I get how you could hear it that way. Even if you view the Bb-C-F progression as I - V/V -V, it still leans heavily toward the V (F).
Myself, I hear it as Lydian. I used this progression partly because I like the Lydian (to my ears) feel, but also as a way of easing into a new position (it was originally created for a student).
One way to start learning an unfamiliar position is to find notes that work in that position without having to alter any of the given pitches. That way you can start getting grounded in how the given notes feel agains the tonal center of a new position. Some of them, like root, fifth, and third, will have strong, fundamental relationships with that tonal center, while others, such as the raised fourth in this case, will sound more outside and exotic. I suppose playing against a backing track of only one chord might be a surer way to develop that sense, but I had this track already and it was fun to play over.
@@winslowyerxa8505 Yeah, it sounded fun, and it sure sounded good as well! I really like the sound of lydian as well, both in eleventh and twelfth position. But I feel like in this tune, the Ab in the Bb7 chord and the Eb in the F7 chord makes it sound less strictly lydian.
It might be because I'm used to playing other instruments, but I tend to think in scales and melodies, rather than strict positions. I don't really think differently when playing a C harp in C major (1st pos.) or Dm dorian (3rd pos.). To me, a richter tuned harp is already simultanously in all 7 modes of major, if you just use the regular blow and draw notes.
What I do feel is very useful though is to learn the pattern of bends that enable you to go beyond those modes. Eleventh position is one such example, but to me, so is playing 2nd position blues, 2nd position in regular minor (which happens to be very close to both of the previously mentioned ones) or playing in sixth position on a country tuned harp (which would be Bm on a C harp).
I do appreciate how positions are very useful for putting words to the way a harmonica tuning fits into the music.
Good to know these things! Thanks!
❤❤❤❤
Brilliant!
I never tried this before. I try to keep some familiarity with 1-5 and 12th, but 11th is new. I pulled up a Bflat backing track and the C harmonica fit right in. It feels very close to 3rd and maybe 4th position, but it isn’t the relative of either of those is it? I’m trying to figure out why it works so well and so easily. I almost feel like I’m playing in 5th but with a half step less bend on the tonic note. Anyway, as you point out, B flat is a popular key, and this way it can be accessed without a suitcase full of harmonicas.
Two weeks later: I’ve been trying to figure it out. It looks like 11th position and 5th position share a lot of the same notes. C & E have a relative relationship. Maybe that accounts for the familiar feeling I had when I tried 11th. I’ve fallen down are real rabbit hole here.
so many notes out of tune
How many? Did you count them, or did you instead focus on the overall musicailty?
@@winslowyerxa8505 OK - 1.12 subs, 120 views so far , 10 likes.... My comment and one other guy calling it "interesting"...
I drop the mic now or keep going?