"Older gamers are ticked off at Wizards of the Coast as a company and are taking their dice and moving" pretty accurate, been hearing a lot more gamers in my age range (30s) saying they refuse to give WotC any more money whatsoever. The trust was broken and we're not willing to give them any more chances
That's me. I moved to Pathfinder 2e when the OGL scandal broke, after decades of D&D fandom. While I thought I might go back at some point, WOTC/Hasbro just continued to screw up over and over again throughout the year and I have come to love PF2E/Paizo.
Why give money who hate you? Their anti male and anti white statements you would have to be a low self esteem loser to support people who hate you. The OSR is where dnd is really at anyhow
We did too. I created a new system cobbled together from several RPGs. To the extent that I buy anything anymore, uts either minis or a monster book like the Pathfinder bestiary. Moved on from 5e pre-mades and their addendum books.
Actually, probably not. D&D brings huge numbers of people to the hobby and if it starts shrinking, all the other games are going to shrink as well. And guess who has a bigger cushion if the lean years come.
I think part of the issue with the D&D movie was that it was released around the time when they announced that they were going to revoke the OGL. That move in particular caused a lot of bad blood between people who wanted to really see it (including myself), and those who owned D&D. They also promised to release the older editions to the public domain. That remains to be seen.
I very much dislike 5e... But even I wanted to see the movie when they first released the trailer. But I didn't because of the OGL. Much later, I caught it on a streaming service after my brother gave a raving review. I didn't hate it... But it's not really *good*. I am just pretty neutral on it, overall.
Honestly, I think a bigger problem was what other movies were out at the time. The number of actual DnD fans that refused to see the movie is inconsequential. It's cinema. 70%+ of the audience are casual viewers. But Hasbro and Paramount were stupid enough to release between John Wick and Mario. The average viewer doesn't go watch 3 movies in the span of 4 weeks, so they pick what is more popular. They keep making that mistake for the record. It was no different with the new Transformers, which would have likely performed better had they released it with less competition. The only reason Ghostbusters is working out right now is because Sony knows when to release movies better AND it is one of the most beloved IPs.
As a family of nerds but not D&D nerds (my sister is actually the deepest into D&D through Dimension 20), my family dropped interest as soon as the director said they loved emasculating men. They chose a really poor time to play politics.
Thank you for breaking up the videos about running games from the sales and industry side. You make the best videos Professor DM. I'm one of the older gamers who has broken off to play one of the lesser-known games: Fantasy Hero!
@@MetalHeadbanger7 Its official name is "Fantasy Hero 6th Edition from Hero Games. It is a point-buy system that you can theme however you like. I run a Grim-dark Fantasy world with it. Hero Games don't get the love that D&D gets, look it up and then tell us about it! Maybe we could get The good Professor to make a video on it.
@@MetalHeadbanger7 Hero Systemstarted as Champions, a super-hero game, but then became a universal system, like GURPS, where every facet of your character is bought with points, meticulously balanced. There's also Space Hero, and Pulp Hero, which was originally called Justice, Inc, and which is a personal fave. Not sure how the combat compares with new games, as it's been so long
It's basic economics. I have witnessed this before in the 90s. When the economy gets tough, discretionary spending on RPGs goes down. It's the same thing for the auto market. New cars are expensive so sales are flagging.
Wrong. Sales on new cars a flagging because banks are no longer lending 100-120% LTV on a new Mercedes S Class to someone who has a job working for Uber Eats. New cars are cheaper now than 2 years ago, look at the dealer incentives....hey never,ever lower the price, they just give more "cash back". EV's are a dime a dozen right now because people have realized it's a dead end technology.
I like the idea that it's more like tourette syndrome. They're monotone and imposing until they get a twitch. "Lower your shields and prepare to be assimilated. we *AAAARRRRRG* the borg. Your culture shall be made to *WALK THEE PLANK, AVAST YE!*"
I find the OSR ecosystem to be so much more interesting than any D&D edition past 3.5. Of course, I may be biased as someone whose entry point to TTRPG's was the Moldvay Red Box, even as the d20 System was in its heyday(I played that too of course, but getting the Rules Cyclopedia off ebay set off so many more games than any one d20 System game in that time).
I've picked off OSE recently, made a few characters, and suddenly remembered how fun it was to make a new character back then. Games are just too bloated nowadays.
For what its worth I really appreciate that you just report the news amongst your other content, saves me having to look it up! And yeah as others say, may have peaked as a table top game but I think there is a bright new world of growing TTRPGs that's going to be fueled by the smaller, indie publishers. And I'm looking forward to it!
In total numbers. But there's no reason to believe that Amazon is immune to the downturn. If everything else is seeing a 30% decline, it's not unreasonable to assume Amazon's sales would follow a similar trend. Sometimes, the information you want is simply unavailable. So you work with and draw conclusions from what you have.
Only if you think Amazon sales data is widely out of line with the overall market trend. That is, the "30% decline" data is comparing 2023's not-Amazon sales to 2022's not-Amazon sales, so the omission of a single channel is only relevant if you think that Amazon sales declined by a much smaller number year-over-year than the sales via hobby stores and Kickstarters. If the 2023 data omitted Amazon but the 2022 data included it, that would obviously be a very different thing, but that isn't what's happening here.
@@RossoCarneDepends entirely where you're at, around where I'm at there's the perfect environment for hobby shops although only so many. We have the "nerdy" progressive community here that currently finds the board game and ttrpg chic and also the nerdy moderate millennials foundation keeps it all going when the other political spectrum moves on in 5 years to ruin something else. It's the curse/blessing of metropolitan cities, lotta bored people in one place.
@@dezopenguin9649 That's just it, Amazon and direct sales are almost certainly out of line with the overall market trend. While it's definitely not the only factor in the 30% decline, it very likely explains a meaningful portion of it. Delivery services have surged since the Pandemic and never really gone away, and as Rosso pointed out, "nobody" is going to hobby stores. As the Prof points out, I would assume that book sales are also diminishing as a result of alternative forms of publishing (PDFs, D&D Beyond, VTTs). And of course, most importantly - we're seeing the tail end of a bubble. What goes up must come down.
Does everyone remember that "we will own nothing and be happy". The deliberate destruction of the consumer economy will continue. The livestock will continue to scratch thier heads in confusion.
@justicemcpherson928 the entire publishing industry had a huge spike during COVID. It's been dropping since then back to normal. No blame involved. Just numbers
I was perusing my local booksellers (WH Smith) and noticed something peculiar about the popular fiction section: virtually every book was written by a female author. Obviously there were a handful of books by established names like Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Lee Child, James Patterson. But aside from them, the names were all ladies. Now, I don't begrudge anyone their success, and I know women do read more fiction, but I also can't help thinking that the publishing industry has made a very determined abd purposeful effort to focus in on specific demographics at the expense of the wider marketplace. And I have to wonder if this is part of the problem with sales.
Prof. DM, love the channel. When I started, it was with AD&D 2E. After years of playing, moving through 3rd… never playing 4th… and then 5th I noticed something was missing but couldn’t put my finger on what. After discovering your channel and others like you, I realized what has been missing for years now… adaptability. Rules have supplanted rulings. With your hypothesis about D&D go as you call it, would you assume this has to do with gamers playing D&D? I mean, D&D as it is today has more in common with World of Warcraft than D&D: power up’s, cool downs, and strict rules that take away the games flavor… making it linear and all about max/min. Wouldn’t it make sense as VTTs become more mainstream and apps make D&D more video game like gamers would leave TTRPG to play D&D the video game? Wouldn’t this mean the sales dip is just a more accurate representation of TTRPG players whom never had interest in a linear video game style of play? Your thoughts?
@@kentonbaird1723 I really like it. I love the journey, council and combat systems. I started with the starter set and my group really go into playing hobbits on a fun adventure. Since then they have gone onto make their own characters and are exploring Eriador. The game has really brought back my love of Middle Earth and I've got ideas for games run in different times in the Third Age to really explore the setting.
The economy is really bad right now even if they are not admitting how bad it is. Food is too expensive, shipping, along with everything else. It's tightening the belt time. So of course games or any kind are going to take a hit. So many kick starters and games I have not bought lately. I even sadly had to cut streaming services, Patreon services. Very sad. Personally I have been looking at the games that are free i.e Basic Fantasy Roleplaying even though I love buying and reading games that I won't even play.
O'Biden economics. You get what you vote for. But for those too dense to decompile reality, the "adults back in charge" have been urging us all to accept how they 'saved the economy' post-COVID and that recent unemployment is way down...via the same idiotic logic the Obama administration did back in 2010 through and 2014. (not looking for a job after unemployment benefits run out? Congratulations! You no longer count as 'unemployed!' even if you aren't actually working! Net jobs are still way, way down from pre-COVID and falling by the day as massive layoffs quietly occur across every industry. But let's not bring the mood down with pesky facts or critical thinking, Biden SAVED US FROM TRUMP, and that's all that matters! So lets all get a hot dog and an ice cream cone so we can watch Rome slowly burn down with him! Ignore the Biden administration's direct, lockstep efforts in helping large corporations import millions of people illegally into the country so they can fire domestic workers and bust up unions by flooding the labor market. Hey, if Homeland Security ain't going to prosecute, it ain't crime, didnn'tyaknow! China's slave labor economy is going down in flames you see, so they're gotta bring the slave labor back HERE. It's gonna be 1885 and Pinkerton all over again! Yeah! Kindly ignore the historic record rates of inflation that have occurred courtesy of three consecutive, multi-trillion dollar omnibus spending bills passed by the Biden administration since Trump was ousted. (including one Trump tried to veto as his last act in office, and was overriden by Congress.) Clearly, it's Trump's fault! He caused the inflation by casting the spell of COVID on the world. Biden meanwhile definitely didn't exacerbate the inflation problem with the single most ironic bill penned since the Patriot Act, intended to combat inflation but only made it much worse. (you can't SPEND YOUR WAY OUT OF DEBT. Why do we keep insisting on doing that?! Oh, right. Billinonaires can just shuffle their money around to dodge the fallout until it becomes dirt cheap to invest again. Leaving the rest of us to deal with the actual consequences of their stupidity. Silly me.) Also ignore the amazing disappearing, reappearing housing market and associated bubble with record levels of market consolidation. Definitely not a repeat of the same predatory investment schemes and games of economic chicken the banks played with each other back in the Dubbya days that caused the Great Recession. (Practices Obama claimed he wanted outlawed...and then inexplicably didn't. Instead, he sent Bernie Madoff to to the clink and then bailed the banks responsible out with federal cash, and called it a day. So I hope you planned on living with rapidly rising rent when you voted Biden in 2020. But at least your 'student loans' MIGHT be forgiven enough to offset that for a year or so so longer, right before the Fridge Logic backhands you in the teeth for your base stupidity in voting straight Democrat in 2020 AND 2024. Probably not though.) And please pretend Biden's brilliant energy plan of gutting petroleum, natural gas and nuclear in favor of blindly hoping the laws of physics magically invert to allow solar and its hilarious inefficiency to fix everything actually works. He worked really hard on it after consulting with his favorite experts on the subject: The Lorax and Bugs Bunny. The Adults are BACK IN CHARGE BABY! YEAH!
Glad to see that the history of Monopoly continues to be a weird black hole of meta-irony that bends the laws of the universe around it. RIP Lizzy Magie. We didn't deserve you.
I picked up D&D in 1978 (Holmes) and then onto 1E, as well as miniature and board wargaming. Dropped roleplaying in 1983/84. I'm now 58 and many of my duties are 'discharged', and aince it is 50th anniversary of D&D, I am now hearing mutters from members of my group something about an OD&D or 1E one-shot for old-times sake.
For me it's hard to decide if I think Holmes or Moldvay is the best version of D&D, but it basically has to be one of those two. I don't even care much for the rest of Mystara outside the adventures from early in BD&D's day before the setting was fleshed out, and adventures aimed at the levels 1-5 in particular. I'm glad the other stuff is there, though, so I can toss Lupin and Rakasta into the standard character options alongside Elf, Dwarf, and Hin.
Your analysis is spot on as always professor! You'll never catch me complaining about your videos -- love both the industry analysis AND the gaming advice!
I have my older books (AD&D 2e with Player's Option books). I prefer that system to the 5e system, but I like it for nostalgia and the ability to adapt it much more easily. I just finished an 8 year long 5e campaign with players that played from 1st level to 20th level plus boons (a couple ended the game as demi-gods), so I also enjoy that system as well. I just have preference.
I am finding more and more that small studios like Penny Dragon Games are producing the D&D content that both I and my Players want to experience. I'm interested in the VTT when it launches but I do find that sitting round an actual table with maps, miniatures, sharpies, and a world of dice is still what brings me back more and more. Recently we have experimented with other systems like Masks and Kult but we keep coming back to 5E (because we know it so well).
_+5 Hammer of Banning_ - automatic hit. On a hit: _banishes_ creature struck with this hammer (no save), even if they are planar natives. If target is a native of the plane, DM rolls 1d100 to determine what plane they are sent to. In all other cases the target is sent back to their plane of origin. Pretty OP when you think about it.
Another great video. As someone getting deeper into their career, listening the business side of a hobby I was interested in as a kid helps me see it as more rounded, less "childish." Not that I think TTRPGs are for kids ofc. But I think that stigma for people in my position is something your video helps address and normalize. At the end of the day, hobby is hobby. Please keep up your videos! Love them, Professor DM
Great video, I brought Pirate Borg and have backed mythic bastion land on KS I just love the independent RPG’s as you can clearly see the passion put into them
Great Video PDM! Love all the Dungeon Craft Video topics, keep them coming. I for one am one of those old dudes that just want simpler, rules lite games to kluge together into my game table like Death Bringer. Again thanks for your work and time!
I mean the decline could simply be the effects of a new edition release. Its not like it hasnt happened before. RPG brands are still thriving in their spaces, its just right now while folks wait out for the new dnd, many are trying other games. Perhaps the best time to launch another RPG this year is before the release of the new DnD books.
They kind of already have a “dnd go” is called idle champions. It’s an idle game so you don’t have to do anything, and you play popular dnd characters from Balder’s gate 3, the forgotten realms, and even shows like critical role.
Great video! Many gamers don’t understand (or refuse to acknowledge) the business side of games And game publishing- it’s very choppy waters- for new and older publishers-
All of their new content is compatible with the new edition. So the only people waiting should be new players who need the core rules. I can't imagine that's a huge segment of their sales.
They can claim whatever they want but the economy just isn't good for anyone right now, and the movie has nothing to do with game sales slowing. Food, utility, housing, and fuel costs are rising. People just don't have much spare income for games right now. Combine that with the fact that only a single copy of a book needs to be sold to supply an entire play group, and only if that group is even at all interested in pre-written stories. Many groups I've played with take elements from various materials, but I've only ever played one pre-written campaign.
Every single day, I see videos talking about D&D stock and sells. As long as this continues, D&D will always be the top-dog. Whenever, the leader of any industry makes any mistakes at all, people will always make videos about it. 95% of TTRPG RUclips would be dead without D&D. D&D isn’t the leader of the industry, but the industry.
Hahaha great video, I like that you talked about how they add MTG and D&D together. I don't think people always see that. You're also 100% correct that something like "D&D Go" is happening. I won't be playing it but it will be fun to watch.
Keep sending me more of this! Hello Prof, I really enjoy and learn a lot from all of your videos! I like the fact you're keeping us up to date on the drama that is Hasbro! I have also not seen any fall-off of your other videos which has made me a far better DM! As far as all the complainers go! You aren't the one making Hasbro torch their business, or go for the TPK of the bulk of the loyal community! If someone is complaining you're not making the news you're just keeping us informed as to what the industry is reporting! THANK YOU! I agree with your assessment of D&D GO! and will make 100s of millions. I am for one thankful for this time in gaming history as it is giving so many limited producers and creators a chance to finely have their light shown as not being snuffed out or overshadowed by D&D and Hasbro. Keep up the good work! Respectfully Chris Pike
Two things. First, while my opinion might not be the majority, I'd like it if D&D got away from using the Forgotten Realms as the default setting. I've never cared for that setting. Second, I can confirm that D&D mostly appeals to younger people these days, and when you talk to them about trying other systems they're not even interested. They just want to play D&D as if it was the latest video game. In fact they don't seem to have that broad a range of things they're interested in in general.
OSE Classic Tome is all I need for my kiddo to stay happy, it's amazing how much he gravitated to TTRPGs, he was blown away (mind you he's young) when I told him a lot of the video games he plays were based off DnD, etc.
I grew up on AD&D (1e), but my current group has gone all-in on Paizo and Kobold Press. Both companies consistently provide excellent material. We run PF2e, with material imported from lots of KP books.
I hate corporate America; but love the lore of DnD. I hate how I can’t buy a damn pdf of any DnD module do to pure greed; but I love how well the roll20 modules work. I am conflicted ⚠️
I have been playing since 1988 and over the past 35 years, I have only played DnD a few times (except the past few years). My son is currently running 5e and I enjoy it, but I am the type that will have fun playing other systems. There are so many other games that are out and are on the way...I wish others would give them a chance. It's about having fun and I appreciate your videos! Thank you.
Thanks for the entertaining and informative video, PDM. I hate to see any company struggling but I find that I reach for other rpg books or my old 1e stuff and not 5e.
Never disingenuous. I cannot think of a time where you have not provided counters to your own ideas. You might reject them, but you always acknowledge them. I think you are painfully scrupulous. I appreciate that, even (especially) when we disagree. Admittedly, I am usually cheerleading form the side. Keep reporting, please. Would love another series of campaign journals. I have a big painting project and would love the company. :)
This is gaming in general, prices have more than doubled and I am certain wages at these companies have not increased even to inflation levels. As someone who has supported this industry since childhood, I am hesitant to pay 100+++ $ for board games never mind the 50 + for game books, digital items that have minimal costs to the industry are basically full hard copy cost. I want the RPG and game industry to be here for the kids of tomorrow, it won't always be middle aged men looking for nostalgia that maintains it, there has to be a viable entry for the youth.
As I've said many times before, Hasbro has all the money I intend to give them... except now for the problem I face with the LEGO sets. I am a LEGO maniac, so I'm very, very torn. It's like a marriage of two of my favourite things. And waiting for the secondary sale isn't a good idea. The retail release will be expensive enough, the scalping price will be insane.
You don’t have to stick to your principles on everything. If you crack, you actually push them in the RIGHT direction. I am not a fan of Lego corporation now - they make so many ridiculous political plays but I love their medieval models… I am pretty sure they are creating these deluxe castles BECAUSE i will pay for them.
You should open with the links to these videos that you show at the end as well because you're right I think a lot of people just bounce on the negative That's too bad because there's so much other good stuff here.
Dammit! I thought this was another Dungeon Craft video with a prank title, where it would appear to be some WOTC scandal but actually be full of awesome advice on how to DM. Now I've fed the algorithm.
I sell a handful of my books on amazon, and the market research tools I use all indicate a significant and persistent decline in D&D sales on the platform. Also I love all of the dungeon craft videos!
Well, can't speak for the world, but my workplace's sales of RPG books peaked during the D20 era. My boss still refers to it as a Golden age. For us, we stayed alive mostly through miniature paints and Warhammer/Battletech figures during Covid with RPG sales picking back up as things opened up in 2023 and the OGL and subsequent controversies caused by WotC seeing a lot of people jump ship to other lines. Personally, I think it's a good thing that more systems are being considered again and people are starting to move out of the box and try different things.
I bought the Deathbringer RPG on DrivethruRPG a while back and love it. I haven't had a chance to actually play it but its wonderfully easy to run. I've recently been looking into the old 2e AD&D books with the intention of learning and running games in that system. I know its a bit clunky compared to newer systems... But there's a lot of great charm in the old system that I never really knew when I was growing up.
I'm glad I started with AD&D, I can always go back to it, or 2nd edition. The explosion (slow at the start, I remember Traveller and Call of Cthulhu (yes, I stll have the first box. And the dice!!!). I think there's a great future for roll playing games! There's so much to pick and chose from! Great things are happening. You're helping as well, spreading the word...
Pirate Borg at #10 blows me away. I mean I backed it but just behind CoC!? Just based on my daughter's preferences I can see where a lot of young people would be super into what I call the "goofy dark" Mark Borg type games. Light rules, cool aesthetic, easy to table. And as for older folks, which I may or may not count myself among, I definitely would switch to Pathfinder if I was playing D&D and live play like the Glass Cannon folks do a great job promoting it.
I think you're dead on. Folks give personas to corporations but really they're just money making machines. They have shareholders to appease, and bonuses to earn. Hasbro is a corporation and will think and act like a corporation. I'm glad you clearly separated the individuals developing the game and the apps from the corporation. By all accounts, those people are genuinely passionate and shouldn't be blamed for the larger direction the company goes. D&D as an IP will always hold a special place in my heart, I can't deny that. I will always love the weird and wonderful way that the different campaign settings have put a spin on these monsters and this lore over the years. It's a foundational part of how I think about fantasy, and the truth is I'll always be interested in "What is D&D up to now?" I hope that the TTRPG hobby in general stays strong and continues to grow. There are tons of really cool games out there today and more on the horizon. I also hope that D&D itself finds its way into the hands of a good steward.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Yep you're spot on with this, Me personally I'm kind of sick of their crap, OGL was 1st, then the layoffs and AI thing sealed it for me. Also the gaming store by my house that I do drop in games at has already moved their games to Pathfinder 2e now, and for me personally the group I play in with my fellow middle aged folks we just moved to Castles and Crusades (new mechanics/ old-school feel) and the 5e campaigns I started DMing for my 20 something kids and their friends we moved to EN LevelUp Adv5e, still has the 5e feel for them, but better combat mechanics and exploration is encouraged (plus compatible with any of the 5e stuff floating around with minimal tweaking). Also recently purchased Shadowdark and Deathbringer but have yet to play either..
It's the same problem TSR had. The problem with TTRPG sales is, sooner or later, your customer has everything he wants-- and that's when you're making _good_ products. Even hobby enthusiasts will slow down, once their collection reaches critical mass. There is simply a ceiling on how much you can get a customer to buy. Heh, *_buy..._* 🏴☠🏴☠🏴☠
3.5 sales also slowed down after a few years. The same thing happened to 3.0 and AD&D and BECMI. Isn't this is just part of the D&D edition life-cycle? A lot of players just want a system that works, and they don't buy new books unless they have to.
5e is the heavyweight in the industry, and it hit a plateau. WotC knew the plateau was coming, which is why they're rolling out a new edition now. I'm curious to see how the figures look one or two fiscal quarters after the new system hits store shelves.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 that much is obvious, but I'm curious if we're going to see the massive and lasting uptake we saw of 5e pre-pandemic, if it's going to be a spike as people switch over leading to a decline in sales, or if it's going to be something in-between. People have formed all kinds of opinions based on the playtest material, but I'm a firm believer that the long-term success of any given edition of D&D comes down to how the community experiences the product as delivered. In a lot of ways, 5e is a weak edition, but it nailed the aspects it needed to, when it needed to, to generate great sales figures for years. I have serious doubts about the viability of doing that again, I don't think the market conditions are right for it, and I think the success of 5e puts the new edition at a disadvantage. That said, WotC and Hasbro have a lot of experience publishing games, so they might just have a strategy in mind that I'm not in a position to see.
Other highlights from Kickstarter and Game found. Savage Worlds Sci Fi companion $306,000 - The Electric State $390,000 - The Winter King $122,000 - Moria Expansion for The One Ring $1.25mill - Legend in the Mist $855,000 - TMNT $1.27mill. There are plenty of games getting some love.
I didn't notice any reference to the upcoming release of D&D (5.5? 6? One? whatever?) later this year, other than Professor's reference to the possibility that the books are printed (I disagree - I think they'll be printed in June but who knows). I suspect that some buyers are waiting until the new version comes out to see what it is like before buying another 5e book. There is probably a slight drop in sales due to that. Regardless, I totally agree that the lack of media presence, like Stranger Things, has stunted growth. "Faster Purple Worm, Kill, Kill" anyone?
I doubt it'd change much, but I'd love to see how Backerkit numbers impact this. I know some RPG studios are using Backerkit instead of Kickstarter. But, as always, great content. I love the industry insights like this!
For me personally, it's more about cost. My disposable income has been shrinking due to inflation. Since i usually buy more TTRPG books than I can conceivably use and play, cutting back on them was one of the first decisions I made. I'm neutral on the whole edition upgrade, WoTC drama, and VTT direction, and it has no impact on my spending habits.
"Older gamers are ticked off at Wizards of the Coast as a company and are taking their dice and moving" pretty accurate, been hearing a lot more gamers in my age range (30s) saying they refuse to give WotC any more money whatsoever. The trust was broken and we're not willing to give them any more chances
That's me. I moved to Pathfinder 2e when the OGL scandal broke, after decades of D&D fandom. While I thought I might go back at some point, WOTC/Hasbro just continued to screw up over and over again throughout the year and I have come to love PF2E/Paizo.
I still haven't seen the D&D movie. Boycotting Hasbro for 2 years now.
Why give money who hate you? Their anti male and anti white statements you would have to be a low self esteem loser to support people who hate you. The OSR is where dnd is really at anyhow
@@elishmuel1976keep up the good work
We did too. I created a new system cobbled together from several RPGs. To the extent that I buy anything anymore, uts either minis or a monster book like the Pathfinder bestiary. Moved on from 5e pre-mades and their addendum books.
In the 80's "D&D Go!" was called Gauntlet and was played at a console in an arcade. Good times.
Wizard shot the food!
Yellow Wizard needs food badly!
Red Warrior needs food badly!
I've not seen such bravery!
@@jasonkiefer1894 Red Wizard is about to die!
Nothing will ever beat a group of friends sitting around a table rolling dice and getting cheeto fingers . System does not matter
Absolutely agree!
Chopsticks prevent "cheeto fingers!" Any savages that get greasy orange dust on my books or minis will find their PCs in dire straits!
Didn't they say the same thing about arcades in the 90s and early 00s
Rouraw!
except for fucking TCGs
Less sales for 5e mean....
More potential for DEATHBRINGER
Got my copy of deathbringer the other day
Good
Actually, probably not. D&D brings huge numbers of people to the hobby and if it starts shrinking, all the other games are going to shrink as well. And guess who has a bigger cushion if the lean years come.
@@Idziemel1 this is the truth
i am new to dnd i like 5e but i just want them bring back aligments and as a paladin main i want to pick my own god :( (video games)
Exclusion, division and corporate greed, and they wonder why sales are down 🤡
Division , Exclusion and Insatiable greed?
@@louislamancusa6331 potato, potato.
Never trust a Microsoft executive
@@dirigoallagash3464*woosh*
Books are never that worthwhile
I think part of the issue with the D&D movie was that it was released around the time when they announced that they were going to revoke the OGL.
That move in particular caused a lot of bad blood between people who wanted to really see it (including myself), and those who owned D&D.
They also promised to release the older editions to the public domain. That remains to be seen.
I agree. The OGL did not help.
I very much dislike 5e... But even I wanted to see the movie when they first released the trailer.
But I didn't because of the OGL. Much later, I caught it on a streaming service after my brother gave a raving review.
I didn't hate it... But it's not really *good*. I am just pretty neutral on it, overall.
Honestly, I think a bigger problem was what other movies were out at the time. The number of actual DnD fans that refused to see the movie is inconsequential. It's cinema. 70%+ of the audience are casual viewers. But Hasbro and Paramount were stupid enough to release between John Wick and Mario.
The average viewer doesn't go watch 3 movies in the span of 4 weeks, so they pick what is more popular.
They keep making that mistake for the record. It was no different with the new Transformers, which would have likely performed better had they released it with less competition.
The only reason Ghostbusters is working out right now is because Sony knows when to release movies better AND it is one of the most beloved IPs.
As a family of nerds but not D&D nerds (my sister is actually the deepest into D&D through Dimension 20), my family dropped interest as soon as the director said they loved emasculating men. They chose a really poor time to play politics.
@@goji253 Yeah competition from Mario is probably the main reason for the average performance in theatres.
Thank you for breaking up the videos about running games from the sales and industry side. You make the best videos Professor DM. I'm one of the older gamers who has broken off to play one of the lesser-known games: Fantasy Hero!
Nice game!
What's fantasy hero?
@@MetalHeadbanger7 Its official name is "Fantasy Hero 6th Edition from Hero Games. It is a point-buy system that you can theme however you like. I run a Grim-dark Fantasy world with it. Hero Games don't get the love that D&D gets, look it up and then tell us about it! Maybe we could get The good Professor to make a video on it.
@@MetalHeadbanger7 Hero Systemstarted as Champions, a super-hero game, but then became a universal system, like GURPS, where every facet of your character is bought with points, meticulously balanced. There's also Space Hero, and Pulp Hero, which was originally called Justice, Inc, and which is a personal fave. Not sure how the combat compares with new games, as it's been so long
Glad to hear a Hero system shout out!
It's basic economics. I have witnessed this before in the 90s. When the economy gets tough, discretionary spending on RPGs goes down. It's the same thing for the auto market. New cars are expensive so sales are flagging.
Wrong. Sales on new cars a flagging because banks are no longer lending 100-120% LTV on a new Mercedes S Class to someone who has a job working for Uber Eats. New cars are cheaper now than 2 years ago, look at the dealer incentives....hey never,ever lower the price, they just give more "cash back". EV's are a dime a dozen right now because people have realized it's a dead end technology.
it has always been about the social interactions.
Not sure D&D is up there with the second largest purchase most people make
@@kevoreilly6557 disposable income.
Pirate Borg - "You will be aaarrrrrrrssimilated. Resistance is futiiaaaaarrrr."
Pirate Borg is what happens when the collective assimilates Reavers.
OMG I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING! ARRRRRRRR!
I like the idea that it's more like tourette syndrome. They're monotone and imposing until they get a twitch.
"Lower your shields and prepare to be assimilated. we *AAAARRRRRG* the borg. Your culture shall be made to *WALK THEE PLANK, AVAST YE!*"
I find the OSR ecosystem to be so much more interesting than any D&D edition past 3.5. Of course, I may be biased as someone whose entry point to TTRPG's was the Moldvay Red Box, even as the d20 System was in its heyday(I played that too of course, but getting the Rules Cyclopedia off ebay set off so many more games than any one d20 System game in that time).
Moldvay!
I've picked off OSE recently, made a few characters, and suddenly remembered how fun it was to make a new character back then.
Games are just too bloated nowadays.
The OSR is where real dnd went. Wotc dnd hasn't been dnd since 3rd edition lol
@@kalajelcheck our lion and Dragon. Super fun to make characters and progress with them in that game and it's OSR as well.
I cut my teeth on Moldvay. Once I discovered 5e I decided not to go back. Those old systems are too clunky for my tastes.
I love ALL Dungeon Craft videos!
Thanks!
For what its worth I really appreciate that you just report the news amongst your other content, saves me having to look it up!
And yeah as others say, may have peaked as a table top game but I think there is a bright new world of growing TTRPGs that's going to be fueled by the smaller, indie publishers. And I'm looking forward to it!
Indie games are great.Thanks for sharing.
"doesn't include Amazon" would seem to be a huge omission.
In total numbers. But there's no reason to believe that Amazon is immune to the downturn. If everything else is seeing a 30% decline, it's not unreasonable to assume Amazon's sales would follow a similar trend.
Sometimes, the information you want is simply unavailable. So you work with and draw conclusions from what you have.
Only if you think Amazon sales data is widely out of line with the overall market trend. That is, the "30% decline" data is comparing 2023's not-Amazon sales to 2022's not-Amazon sales, so the omission of a single channel is only relevant if you think that Amazon sales declined by a much smaller number year-over-year than the sales via hobby stores and Kickstarters. If the 2023 data omitted Amazon but the 2022 data included it, that would obviously be a very different thing, but that isn't what's happening here.
@@backcountry164bro where you been, no one goes to hobby stores anymore
@@RossoCarneDepends entirely where you're at, around where I'm at there's the perfect environment for hobby shops although only so many. We have the "nerdy" progressive community here that currently finds the board game and ttrpg chic and also the nerdy moderate millennials foundation keeps it all going when the other political spectrum moves on in 5 years to ruin something else. It's the curse/blessing of metropolitan cities, lotta bored people in one place.
@@dezopenguin9649 That's just it, Amazon and direct sales are almost certainly out of line with the overall market trend. While it's definitely not the only factor in the 30% decline, it very likely explains a meaningful portion of it. Delivery services have surged since the Pandemic and never really gone away, and as Rosso pointed out, "nobody" is going to hobby stores.
As the Prof points out, I would assume that book sales are also diminishing as a result of alternative forms of publishing (PDFs, D&D Beyond, VTTs). And of course, most importantly - we're seeing the tail end of a bubble. What goes up must come down.
All book sales are down in the whole publishing industry since COVID caused a huge spike. Back to normal now.
Covid lockdown ended a long time ago, and we've been in a new normal state long enough to stop blaming things on COVID.
Does everyone remember that "we will own nothing and be happy". The deliberate destruction of the consumer economy will continue. The livestock will continue to scratch thier heads in confusion.
@justicemcpherson928 the entire publishing industry had a huge spike during COVID. It's been dropping since then back to normal. No blame involved. Just numbers
@@JO-uy6zs Yes, but even annual numbers leave us with a post spike plateau to work with.
I was perusing my local booksellers (WH Smith) and noticed something peculiar about the popular fiction section: virtually every book was written by a female author. Obviously there were a handful of books by established names like Stephen King, Dean Koontz, Lee Child, James Patterson. But aside from them, the names were all ladies. Now, I don't begrudge anyone their success, and I know women do read more fiction, but I also can't help thinking that the publishing industry has made a very determined abd purposeful effort to focus in on specific demographics at the expense of the wider marketplace. And I have to wonder if this is part of the problem with sales.
Still have my BECMI boxes and my Cyclopedia. The only edition I'll ever need.
Yes! Ran a Basic session for the 4th graders last nite. My friends kids love it.
I was raised on BECMI. I moved on, mostly because of players, but I've always wondered if I should've just stayed put
Mystara is still my favorite setting.
War Machine!!
Always interested in hearing your very insightful and intelligent perspectives on the news of D&D and other RPGs.
Have not spent a single cent with WOTC since the OGL/Kyle Brink interview. Still playing, and have spent lots on 3rd party D&D and also other systems.
Prof. DM, love the channel. When I started, it was with AD&D 2E. After years of playing, moving through 3rd… never playing 4th… and then 5th I noticed something was missing but couldn’t put my finger on what. After discovering your channel and others like you, I realized what has been missing for years now… adaptability. Rules have supplanted rulings. With your hypothesis about D&D go as you call it, would you assume this has to do with gamers playing D&D? I mean, D&D as it is today has more in common with World of Warcraft than D&D: power up’s, cool downs, and strict rules that take away the games flavor… making it linear and all about max/min. Wouldn’t it make sense as VTTs become more mainstream and apps make D&D more video game like gamers would leave TTRPG to play D&D the video game? Wouldn’t this mean the sales dip is just a more accurate representation of TTRPG players whom never had interest in a linear video game style of play? Your thoughts?
I don't know yet.
It's designed with an eye towards MMOs and pvp 'balance' which is pure garbage for anything else. Peaked at 3rd edition.
It’s because there is a new edition coming out - same thing happens with iPhones
I took my dice and moved systems to WFRP, Blades in the Dark and the One Ring after the OGL debacle and my players love the new systems.
FYI: James Spahn of One Ring is my co-writer on Deathbringer.
How're you finding "one ring", internet stranger? it's on my list of systems to try.
@@kentonbaird1723 I really like it. I love the journey, council and combat systems. I started with the starter set and my group really go into playing hobbits on a fun adventure. Since then they have gone onto make their own characters and are exploring Eriador. The game has really brought back my love of Middle Earth and I've got ideas for games run in different times in the Third Age to really explore the setting.
@@bluecarpettiles I'm sold!
The economy is really bad right now even if they are not admitting how bad it is. Food is too expensive, shipping, along with everything else. It's tightening the belt time. So of course games or any kind are going to take a hit. So many kick starters and games I have not bought lately. I even sadly had to cut streaming services, Patreon services. Very sad. Personally I have been looking at the games that are free i.e Basic Fantasy Roleplaying even though I love buying and reading games that I won't even play.
O'Biden economics. You get what you vote for.
But for those too dense to decompile reality, the "adults back in charge" have been urging us all to accept how they 'saved the economy' post-COVID and that recent unemployment is way down...via the same idiotic logic the Obama administration did back in 2010 through and 2014.
(not looking for a job after unemployment benefits run out? Congratulations! You no longer count as 'unemployed!' even if you aren't actually working! Net jobs are still way, way down from pre-COVID and falling by the day as massive layoffs quietly occur across every industry.
But let's not bring the mood down with pesky facts or critical thinking, Biden SAVED US FROM TRUMP, and that's all that matters! So lets all get a hot dog and an ice cream cone so we can watch Rome slowly burn down with him!
Ignore the Biden administration's direct, lockstep efforts in helping large corporations import millions of people illegally into the country so they can fire domestic workers and bust up unions by flooding the labor market. Hey, if Homeland Security ain't going to prosecute, it ain't crime, didnn'tyaknow!
China's slave labor economy is going down in flames you see, so they're gotta bring the slave labor back HERE.
It's gonna be 1885 and Pinkerton all over again! Yeah!
Kindly ignore the historic record rates of inflation that have occurred courtesy of three consecutive, multi-trillion dollar omnibus spending bills passed by the Biden administration since Trump was ousted. (including one Trump tried to veto as his last act in office, and was overriden by Congress.) Clearly, it's Trump's fault! He caused the inflation by casting the spell of COVID on the world. Biden meanwhile definitely didn't exacerbate the inflation problem with the single most ironic bill penned since the Patriot Act, intended to combat inflation but only made it much worse.
(you can't SPEND YOUR WAY OUT OF DEBT. Why do we keep insisting on doing that?! Oh, right. Billinonaires can just shuffle their money around to dodge the fallout until it becomes dirt cheap to invest again. Leaving the rest of us to deal with the actual consequences of their stupidity. Silly me.)
Also ignore the amazing disappearing, reappearing housing market and associated bubble with record levels of market consolidation. Definitely not a repeat of the same predatory investment schemes and games of economic chicken the banks played with each other back in the Dubbya days that caused the Great Recession.
(Practices Obama claimed he wanted outlawed...and then inexplicably didn't. Instead, he sent Bernie Madoff to to the clink and then bailed the banks responsible out with federal cash, and called it a day. So I hope you planned on living with rapidly rising rent when you voted Biden in 2020. But at least your 'student loans' MIGHT be forgiven enough to offset that for a year or so so longer, right before the Fridge Logic backhands you in the teeth for your base stupidity in voting straight Democrat in 2020 AND 2024. Probably not though.)
And please pretend Biden's brilliant energy plan of gutting petroleum, natural gas and nuclear in favor of blindly hoping the laws of physics magically invert to allow solar and its hilarious inefficiency to fix everything actually works. He worked really hard on it after consulting with his favorite experts on the subject: The Lorax and Bugs Bunny.
The Adults are BACK IN CHARGE BABY! YEAH!
Glad to see that the history of Monopoly continues to be a weird black hole of meta-irony that bends the laws of the universe around it.
RIP Lizzy Magie. We didn't deserve you.
I picked up D&D in 1978 (Holmes) and then onto 1E, as well as miniature and board wargaming. Dropped roleplaying in 1983/84.
I'm now 58 and many of my duties are 'discharged', and aince it is 50th anniversary of D&D, I am now hearing mutters from members of my group something about an OD&D or 1E one-shot for old-times sake.
Give Pathfinder 2e a look! It has a lot of "old school" whimsy, with fairly modern design.
For me it's hard to decide if I think Holmes or Moldvay is the best version of D&D, but it basically has to be one of those two. I don't even care much for the rest of Mystara outside the adventures from early in BD&D's day before the setting was fleshed out, and adventures aimed at the levels 1-5 in particular.
I'm glad the other stuff is there, though, so I can toss Lupin and Rakasta into the standard character options alongside Elf, Dwarf, and Hin.
I watched the cartoon in ‘82, picked up the Red Box in ‘85 and have also moved on to PF2e. Great system.
Your analysis is spot on as always professor! You'll never catch me complaining about your videos -- love both the industry analysis AND the gaming advice!
Always appreciate the videos with your insight and experience with the industry Professor DM!
Thanks for your kind words.
Vintage 1st and 2nd Edition Dungeons & Dragons are still selling well online. They still play well too. You don't have to simp to corporations.
I have my older books (AD&D 2e with Player's Option books). I prefer that system to the 5e system, but I like it for nostalgia and the ability to adapt it much more easily. I just finished an 8 year long 5e campaign with players that played from 1st level to 20th level plus boons (a couple ended the game as demi-gods), so I also enjoy that system as well. I just have preference.
Chad statement good on you speaking the truth
2e still gets played at my house. The kids prefer it to 5e (which they play with their friends), though they could just be stroking Dad's ego
I'm personally shopping around for AD&D "Birthright". It sounds like a mad system.
You report the facts, if it is positive or negative it does not matter because they are proven facts. Keep up the awesome work!
Thanks!
This is the best channel for up to date D&D news as well as D&D knowledge, advice, and crafting!!!!
I am finding more and more that small studios like Penny Dragon Games are producing the D&D content that both I and my Players want to experience.
I'm interested in the VTT when it launches but I do find that sitting round an actual table with maps, miniatures, sharpies, and a world of dice is still what brings me back more and more.
Recently we have experimented with other systems like Masks and Kult but we keep coming back to 5E (because we know it so well).
I love ALL RPG systems discussed by DUNGEONCRAFT
Sounds like Mass Effect. "I'm Commander Shepard, and Dungeocraft is my favorite RUclips channel on the Citadel!" 😂
_+5 Hammer of Banning_ - automatic hit. On a hit: _banishes_ creature struck with this hammer (no save), even if they are planar natives. If target is a native of the plane, DM rolls 1d100 to determine what plane they are sent to. In all other cases the target is sent back to their plane of origin.
Pretty OP when you think about it.
Eager to hear your take on Piirate Borg!
Another great video. As someone getting deeper into their career, listening the business side of a hobby I was interested in as a kid helps me see it as more rounded, less "childish."
Not that I think TTRPGs are for kids ofc. But I think that stigma for people in my position is something your video helps address and normalize. At the end of the day, hobby is hobby.
Please keep up your videos! Love them, Professor DM
Thanks for those kind words.
I Love ALL Dungeon Craft Videos! Pathfinder, in my opinion, is just a needlessly more complicated version of D&D. More crunch for the sake of crunch.
Great video, I brought Pirate Borg and have backed mythic bastion land on KS I just love the independent RPG’s as you can clearly see the passion put into them
Great Video PDM! Love all the Dungeon Craft Video topics, keep them coming. I for one am one of those old dudes that just want simpler, rules lite games to kluge together into my game table like Death Bringer. Again thanks for your work and time!
Thanks.
I mean the decline could simply be the effects of a new edition release. Its not like it hasnt happened before. RPG brands are still thriving in their spaces, its just right now while folks wait out for the new dnd, many are trying other games. Perhaps the best time to launch another RPG this year is before the release of the new DnD books.
Didn't watch the video, or have you been missing out on what WOTC has been doing?
They kind of already have a “dnd go” is called idle champions. It’s an idle game so you don’t have to do anything, and you play popular dnd characters from Balder’s gate 3, the forgotten realms, and even shows like critical role.
Great video! Many gamers don’t understand (or refuse to acknowledge) the business side of games
And game publishing- it’s very choppy waters- for new and older publishers-
Just the knowledge that the 2024 books are on the way would cause a good decline for D&D sales I would think.
All of their new content is compatible with the new edition. So the only people waiting should be new players who need the core rules. I can't imagine that's a huge segment of their sales.
Honestly this is why I’m on a buying hiatus. I know it says it’s backwards compatible but…let me see the new one first before I buy any new books
I wonder what D&D 2030 will look like.
Compatibility promises are often broken in gaming. Wait and see seems wise.
They can claim whatever they want but the economy just isn't good for anyone right now, and the movie has nothing to do with game sales slowing. Food, utility, housing, and fuel costs are rising. People just don't have much spare income for games right now. Combine that with the fact that only a single copy of a book needs to be sold to supply an entire play group, and only if that group is even at all interested in pre-written stories. Many groups I've played with take elements from various materials, but I've only ever played one pre-written campaign.
Every single day, I see videos talking about D&D stock and sells.
As long as this continues, D&D will always be the top-dog.
Whenever, the leader of any industry makes any mistakes at all, people will always make videos about it.
95% of TTRPG RUclips would be dead without D&D.
D&D isn’t the leader of the industry, but the industry.
It is sad to see all TTRPG sales decreasing, but it is good to see a new video from Dungeon Craft.
Thanks for your support.
Hahaha great video, I like that you talked about how they add MTG and D&D together. I don't think people always see that. You're also 100% correct that something like "D&D Go" is happening. I won't be playing it but it will be fun to watch.
Glad you enjoyed!
Keep sending me more of this! Hello Prof, I really enjoy and learn a lot from all of your videos! I like the fact you're keeping us up to date on the drama that is Hasbro! I have also not seen any fall-off of your other videos which has made me a far better DM! As far as all the complainers go! You aren't the one making Hasbro torch their business, or go for the TPK of the bulk of the loyal community! If someone is complaining you're not making the news you're just keeping us informed as to what the industry is reporting! THANK YOU! I agree with your assessment of D&D GO! and will make 100s of millions. I am for one thankful for this time in gaming history as it is giving so many limited producers and creators a chance to finely have their light shown as not being snuffed out or overshadowed by D&D and Hasbro. Keep up the good work! Respectfully Chris Pike
Thank you, Chris.
Appreciate the updates. Professor DM gives it to ya straight
Thanks for watching!
Two things. First, while my opinion might not be the majority, I'd like it if D&D got away from using the Forgotten Realms as the default setting. I've never cared for that setting. Second, I can confirm that D&D mostly appeals to younger people these days, and when you talk to them about trying other systems they're not even interested. They just want to play D&D as if it was the latest video game. In fact they don't seem to have that broad a range of things they're interested in in general.
Thank you for the very informative video, Professor. Love all the content!
OSE Classic Tome is all I need for my kiddo to stay happy, it's amazing how much he gravitated to TTRPGs, he was blown away (mind you he's young) when I told him a lot of the video games he plays were based off DnD, etc.
It's good to see a blossoming of creativity bringing more options.
Thanks for providing the industry updates. Most of my group deals only in home-brew and don't provide WOTC any more revenue for D&D.
Thanks. There will be a lot more news late in the week, gaming content early in the week.
I grew up on AD&D (1e), but my current group has gone all-in on Paizo and Kobold Press. Both companies consistently provide excellent material. We run PF2e, with material imported from lots of KP books.
Thanks for sharing.
Excellent news coverage. Thank you for your work.
Thanks for commenting.
Who would buy a new D&D when "we" already have all the D&D books we need to play our game???
Boy I sure do LOVE all of Dungeon Craft's videos!
Looking forward to your review for Pirateborg :D I started a campaign with that system a few months ago. It's been a blast so far :D
I hate corporate America; but love the lore of DnD. I hate how I can’t buy a damn pdf of any DnD module do to pure greed; but I love how well the roll20 modules work. I am conflicted ⚠️
I have been playing since 1988 and over the past 35 years, I have only played DnD a few times (except the past few years). My son is currently running 5e and I enjoy it, but I am the type that will have fun playing other systems. There are so many other games that are out and are on the way...I wish others would give them a chance. It's about having fun and I appreciate your videos! Thank you.
My experience with TTRPGs is that it's not a lucrative business, but an artistic and creative one. That's what attracted me to the hobby.
Thanks for the entertaining and informative video, PDM. I hate to see any company struggling but I find that I reach for other rpg books or my old 1e stuff and not 5e.
Never disingenuous. I cannot think of a time where you have not provided counters to your own ideas. You might reject them, but you always acknowledge them. I think you are painfully scrupulous. I appreciate that, even (especially) when we disagree. Admittedly, I am usually cheerleading form the side.
Keep reporting, please. Would love another series of campaign journals. I have a big painting project and would love the company. :)
This is gaming in general, prices have more than doubled and I am certain wages at these companies have not increased even to inflation levels. As someone who has supported this industry since childhood, I am hesitant to pay 100+++ $ for board games never mind the 50 + for game books, digital items that have minimal costs to the industry are basically full hard copy cost. I want the RPG and game industry to be here for the kids of tomorrow, it won't always be middle aged men looking for nostalgia that maintains it, there has to be a viable entry for the youth.
As I've said many times before, Hasbro has all the money I intend to give them... except now for the problem I face with the LEGO sets. I am a LEGO maniac, so I'm very, very torn. It's like a marriage of two of my favourite things. And waiting for the secondary sale isn't a good idea. The retail release will be expensive enough, the scalping price will be insane.
I feel your pain and I'm right there with you.
You don’t have to stick to your principles on everything. If you crack, you actually push them in the RIGHT direction. I am not a fan of Lego corporation now - they make so many ridiculous political plays but I love their medieval models… I am pretty sure they are creating these deluxe castles BECAUSE i will pay for them.
Buy the Legos. Sticking it to Hasbro isn't worth your mental health.
You should open with the links to these videos that you show at the end as well because you're right I think a lot of people just bounce on the negative That's too bad because there's so much other good stuff here.
Dammit! I thought this was another Dungeon Craft video with a prank title, where it would appear to be some WOTC scandal but actually be full of awesome advice on how to DM. Now I've fed the algorithm.
That comes Monday. You won't be disappointed.
Makes sense. After my 5e campaign is done I’m shifting to playing independent ttrpgs like Shadowdark and Mausritter.
GREAT games.
I had no idea Pirate Borg was *that* big. I follow Limithron, the creator, on yt, and I knew it was popular, but Top Ten? Impressive!
I sell a handful of my books on amazon, and the market research tools I use all indicate a significant and persistent decline in D&D sales on the platform.
Also I love all of the dungeon craft videos!
Thanks for the news, Professor DM. I don't have time to follow all the gaming news like I would like.
As always, I LOVE ALL DUNGEONCRAFT VIDEOS!
Well, can't speak for the world, but my workplace's sales of RPG books peaked during the D20 era. My boss still refers to it as a Golden age. For us, we stayed alive mostly through miniature paints and Warhammer/Battletech figures during Covid with RPG sales picking back up as things opened up in 2023 and the OGL and subsequent controversies caused by WotC seeing a lot of people jump ship to other lines. Personally, I think it's a good thing that more systems are being considered again and people are starting to move out of the box and try different things.
Interesting.
I bought the Deathbringer RPG on DrivethruRPG a while back and love it. I haven't had a chance to actually play it but its wonderfully easy to run.
I've recently been looking into the old 2e AD&D books with the intention of learning and running games in that system. I know its a bit clunky compared to newer systems... But there's a lot of great charm in the old system that I never really knew when I was growing up.
Thanks, I enjoy the TTRPG industry news content, great stuff!
I'm glad I started with AD&D, I can always go back to it, or 2nd edition. The explosion (slow at the start, I remember Traveller and Call of Cthulhu (yes, I stll have the first box. And the dice!!!).
I think there's a great future for roll playing games! There's so much to pick and chose from! Great things are happening. You're helping as well, spreading the word...
I left D&D along with my group (12 total). We're in Pathfinder now - which our DM preferred in the first place anyway.
Pirate Borg at #10 blows me away. I mean I backed it but just behind CoC!? Just based on my daughter's preferences I can see where a lot of young people would be super into what I call the "goofy dark" Mark Borg type games. Light rules, cool aesthetic, easy to table. And as for older folks, which I may or may not count myself among, I definitely would switch to Pathfinder if I was playing D&D and live play like the Glass Cannon folks do a great job promoting it.
Interesting insight. Time will tell.
Hope deathbringer doesn’t step on your toes for skipping his outro.
He only appears once a week. It's in his contract. He returns Monday, for maybe the best outro ever.
Dan, close enough to Dave to be a Dave-Con DM. I mean half of the name is there and that ain't half bad!
I love all Dungeoncraft videos, looking forward to the Pirate Borg review!
So am I! Very excited.
What?! More clickbait.... Er, um, I mean
I LOVE ALL OF DUNGEONCRAFT'S VIDEOS
Thanks for sharing. A man has to eat.
I'm here for all your videos PDM!
Thank you.
Good work, Professor. Thanks for your insight. -Chris AKA Li’l C (BGD)
Great video. Enjoy all your content. Thanks for the thoughtful analysis
Terrific stuff! Definitely glad to get your thoughts and insight!
I love all Dungeon Craft videos.
Indeed. I also love all Dungeon Craft videos.😮
I love all Dungeon Craft videos too
Cogent analysis. People who hate on these videos need to chill. Lol Keep up the good work, prof. I try to watch all your videos.
hey nice piece there i can see the D&Dgo idea being prity solid as a plan when you look at mobile app games income and popularity
I think you're dead on. Folks give personas to corporations but really they're just money making machines. They have shareholders to appease, and bonuses to earn. Hasbro is a corporation and will think and act like a corporation. I'm glad you clearly separated the individuals developing the game and the apps from the corporation. By all accounts, those people are genuinely passionate and shouldn't be blamed for the larger direction the company goes.
D&D as an IP will always hold a special place in my heart, I can't deny that. I will always love the weird and wonderful way that the different campaign settings have put a spin on these monsters and this lore over the years. It's a foundational part of how I think about fantasy, and the truth is I'll always be interested in "What is D&D up to now?" I hope that the TTRPG hobby in general stays strong and continues to grow. There are tons of really cool games out there today and more on the horizon. I also hope that D&D itself finds its way into the hands of a good steward.
I love it when dungeon craft adds a video
Thanks. Two more next week.
So happy to watch all Dungeon Craft Videos! ;)
"Older gamers are ticked off at Wizards of the Coast as a company and are taking their dice and moving" Yup, this is me and my friends.
That was my gut instinct. Glad you agreed. Not because I need agreement or praise. I just want to know I'm not crazy.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 Yep you're spot on with this, Me personally I'm kind of sick of their crap, OGL was 1st, then the layoffs and AI thing sealed it for me. Also the gaming store by my house that I do drop in games at has already moved their games to Pathfinder 2e now, and for me personally the group I play in with my fellow middle aged folks we just moved to Castles and Crusades (new mechanics/ old-school feel) and the 5e campaigns I started DMing for my 20 something kids and their friends we moved to EN LevelUp Adv5e, still has the 5e feel for them, but better combat mechanics and exploration is encouraged (plus compatible with any of the 5e stuff floating around with minimal tweaking). Also recently purchased Shadowdark and Deathbringer but have yet to play either..
It's the same problem TSR had. The problem with TTRPG sales is, sooner or later, your customer has everything he wants-- and that's when you're making _good_ products. Even hobby enthusiasts will slow down, once their collection reaches critical mass. There is simply a ceiling on how much you can get a customer to buy.
Heh, *_buy..._* 🏴☠🏴☠🏴☠
3.5 sales also slowed down after a few years. The same thing happened to 3.0 and AD&D and BECMI. Isn't this is just part of the D&D edition life-cycle?
A lot of players just want a system that works, and they don't buy new books unless they have to.
5e is the heavyweight in the industry, and it hit a plateau. WotC knew the plateau was coming, which is why they're rolling out a new edition now. I'm curious to see how the figures look one or two fiscal quarters after the new system hits store shelves.
Better. That's why they will stagger the releases--so they stagger the income.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 that much is obvious, but I'm curious if we're going to see the massive and lasting uptake we saw of 5e pre-pandemic, if it's going to be a spike as people switch over leading to a decline in sales, or if it's going to be something in-between.
People have formed all kinds of opinions based on the playtest material, but I'm a firm believer that the long-term success of any given edition of D&D comes down to how the community experiences the product as delivered. In a lot of ways, 5e is a weak edition, but it nailed the aspects it needed to, when it needed to, to generate great sales figures for years. I have serious doubts about the viability of doing that again, I don't think the market conditions are right for it, and I think the success of 5e puts the new edition at a disadvantage. That said, WotC and Hasbro have a lot of experience publishing games, so they might just have a strategy in mind that I'm not in a position to see.
Other highlights from Kickstarter and Game found. Savage Worlds Sci Fi companion $306,000 - The Electric State $390,000 - The Winter King $122,000 - Moria Expansion for The One Ring $1.25mill - Legend in the Mist $855,000 - TMNT $1.27mill.
There are plenty of games getting some love.
I enjoy watching your "doom and gloom" videos just as much as your other content. Keep them coming.
I didn't notice any reference to the upcoming release of D&D (5.5? 6? One? whatever?) later this year, other than Professor's reference to the possibility that the books are printed (I disagree - I think they'll be printed in June but who knows). I suspect that some buyers are waiting until the new version comes out to see what it is like before buying another 5e book. There is probably a slight drop in sales due to that. Regardless, I totally agree that the lack of media presence, like Stranger Things, has stunted growth. "Faster Purple Worm, Kill, Kill" anyone?
LOL Not many. Thanks for sharing.
I love all of Dungeon Craft's videos!
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment!
this is the cycle of D&D. sales shrink then boom new books come out and it'll be strong for years again...
Time will tell.
Keep up the great work, Professor!
I doubt it'd change much, but I'd love to see how Backerkit numbers impact this. I know some RPG studios are using Backerkit instead of Kickstarter. But, as always, great content. I love the industry insights like this!
For me personally, it's more about cost. My disposable income has been shrinking due to inflation. Since i usually buy more TTRPG books than I can conceivably use and play, cutting back on them was one of the first decisions I made. I'm neutral on the whole edition upgrade, WoTC drama, and VTT direction, and it has no impact on my spending habits.
Thanks for sharing.