Even if AI can be used as a tool to help artists be more productive, I don't trust webtoon at all. If the productivity of their artists increase, they will ask more of them. Artist will never stop being overworked in webtoon, cause the company sucks. Not only that, if you don't want to use AI tools... You'll probably be fucked. Cause you'll have to draw even more than before to fill in the new expectations.
Yeah, this is just going to worsen the stuff that was bad before. They're not fixing the issues that make people be overworked, they're just applying a bandaid "fix" that will definitely go south very fast
Thats capitalism. Any time a new tool comes along that increases production, even assuming that tool just carries positives and isnt inherently flawed the way all these AI tools are, that could hypothetically mean one of two things for workers, since they can now produce more in less time: Either they can earn more money for the same amount of work, because they produce more, or they can work less for the same pay, because it takes less time or work to accomplish the same thing. Meanwhile for consumers it should mean product prices go down, since everything now costs less to produce. Yet strangely, none of those ever happen, do they? Instead workers are just expected to produce more in the same amount of time while products keep getting more exspensive, and all the extra money just... vanishes... I wonder where that money goes? Even if AI tools werent an affront to the very idea of art, they wouldnt help anyone but the vampires at the top.
@@TheSpeep But those things DO happen. I don't know what you're talking about. Things do get cheaper by implementing big newer products, but the truth is, that one part of the process that contributes to 1/3 of the costs being cut in half, isn't putting the world upside down. It's not just an issue with capitalism, but resource management in general. Neoliberal values corrupt all systems now.
@@moritakaishida7963I feel you misunderstand! The first two ai tools are not creating automated work so much as just a tool to be used by the artist. The 3d model can be moved to create a reference for the artist, that way they can physically move and see what a character's hair and clothes should look like at different angles. Then you draw with that reference. I sometimes dress up poseable dolls in real life to do the same thing, but having a 3d model with the appropriate proportions for the specific character would be a very useful tool!!
@@dino_folly though you can also just use pictures references to get a similar result. And there are tutorials that can help you make your character look accurately proportional. While a 3D model is helpful, so does pictures.
I wouldn't use those for comics. Comics are more than just pictures and ai can't do it. Visual storytelling is very important in comics. Composition, positioning, poses, perspective, contrast, colors, metaphors, anatomy and it's simplification, silhouettes, use of space, panelling, typography and many more things. You can't do visual storytelling properly with ai.
@@dino_folly Sounds like a good way to get awfully generic poses, and stiff movement. Which is the biggest turn off for any reader since the scenes are just mannequins shuffling awkardly around the stage lol.
@@nk__ the problem with most of these AI implementation in art tho, they'll use it as an excuse to expect more & much more frequent work from you while they pay you much less, and potentially even charging you for usage of said tools in the future. Their excuse will be, everybody's using the AI tools & are putting out 'good looking' work faster & they won't tolerate those that don't work fast. They will also 100% compare you with those that put out more & faster work with AI, and will pay you the same amount as them. That is, granted you can output as much & as fast as the AI tool users. And if everyone accepts it anyway & just opt for AI usage, then they will still see it as an excuse to reduce pay anyway by saying there's too much creators going around to pay everyone more or something like that. Then, we're also not gonna look at the fact that most of everyone will be going with the most optimal style the AI provide & everyone's webtoon will end up looking artificial & the same. And since 'everyone can draw with AI', there will be heavy saturation in output. That will just not end well. The tech is good & cool, but the way the industry is going around implementing it is very exploitative & destructive in the long run.
As someone else said, Cara is a great place for specifically artists to post their work without worrying about it being fed to AI (the app is strictly against AI art and has recently gained a lot of activity after Instagram started uploading everything on its dumbass site to ai)
Any artist who has used 3D models for posing knows there is a delicate balance you need to strike when using them as reference so your characters don’t look stiff and unnatural. They’re basically coming up with ways to keep artists working at an insane pace when they could be getting good results by lightening the load on creators…
Ive got a ton of other things to study so if I can pick up a skill (or something id like to do but cant make time for) without spending 10,000 hours, SIGN ME UP :D
@@ABSTREKT But they'll sit there for 30 hours regenerating images until they get something remotely usable. and that's a stretch. Imagine all those hours added up learning nothing.
@@sheeplegend1324 "You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad you don't know the difference."
Not yet! Don’t give up yet fellow artist! This is a faze for the world and humans will be recognized, we just have to fight it back! Don’t let any corporation take your art!
@@monbub It's like fighting for privacy, you quickly learn that the closer you get to it, the more you have to sacrifice. This will become the same for art and AI.
true, but you're not alone *unless you wanna do an epik quest to turn off the internet source globally and permanantly and get sent to jail for doing so for the sake of reversing AI for a few hundred years :D*
I feel at bit mixed with this. On one hand, this might be encouraging let alone helpful for those feeling discouraged. On the other hand, expect more garbage from this site
DEFINITELY expect a lot more garbage. Gonna take a few years for this technology to reach _some_ level of polish without being _too_ bland and uninspiring.
@@elleplaygodnah this fine i think it's a great tool if you struggle with posing your character and people could use this instead of those plain Mannequin to see how it would look like before drawing it (sorry for bad English)
@@elleplaygod You can use AI ethically if it's only your art that's given with permission being used. It's when it's scrapping 1000s of images off of websites when it's an issue. The second spiderverse movie used AI with just their team of artists, who all agreed and used the program only for the film, so AI can be helpful! It's just mostly used for stealing art at the moment because it's new and no laws have been made to regulate it yet.
comic is all about two things: drawing and storytelling. If you suck at either of them, you already lost 50%. Unless you are masters like ONE Sensei, but even ONE Sensei improved his drawing throughout the years. I think these tools can help those "one man band" mangakas but, at the same time, encourage(?) more ppl that "suck at either of them" getting into the comic industry. Hence, lower the level of the comic industry.
I honestly think you don’t have to be good at drawing to make an excellent comic, just look at a bunch of comics artists on r/comics and you’ll see lots of “bad drawings”. But they tell amazing stories and some with good messages too. But story telling on the other hand? Yeh you need to be pretty dang good at that for people to get invested in the first place or at least good enough for people to see your potential and root for your improvement.
Exactly, artists that are too tired to draw should be able to hire more artists to help them! Webtoon should help by supplying these artists or funding creators sufficiently so that they can afford having help. But AI...that's not solving the issue at all, it's just making their comic even lazier and low effort. I guess this is webtoon's way of getting away with paying authors less than what they deserve, despite making them produce comics every week.
@@toycarstudios5922 I’m mentioning the bucket tool. Although I admit that some bucket tool features need a little maneuvering, (this will probably need maneuvering too) it just feels like they’re taking stuff and renaming it. When in reality they didn’t need to; they could have just made the tool we already had better. It’s what they did with grammarly, same tools just more refined and labeled AI.
@@toycarstudios5922 also I’m pretty sure they’re sites that already do this if I’m not mistaken, I unfortunately cannot remember or give a specific example or site. Which I apologize for.
Ooooh yeah, you have a point. Although I don’t use the fill in tool, as my lines aren’t always completely connected, and it leaves crusty uncolored spots places. Perhaps if it fixed what the fill in tool fails at, it could be promising, but you are correct, it is just a refined fill in tool.
There are tools that use AI to colour drawings in ibis paint and csp and have been for multiple years by now, they aren't very good though. And no I'm not talking about the bucket tool.
WAIT WAIT WAIT. like a good while ago there was an event where fans could take a picture of themselves and it would draw you in the style of that creator. Was that feeding them data?
That would be a different type of data though. Converting a drawing to a 3d model or a 3d model to a drawing is a different task from converting a photo to a drawing.
With that logic then all filters are AI, which they're not, so no. Maybe a handful of them were but there are alot of trends thats similar to what you said so im not sure which one you're talking about
@@V6HAVOC the problem is that AI is a buzzword now. Companies are now using it for programs that already existed that the word has lost meaning at this point.
@@Damian_DHYeah, if this was how we lived then we would still be living in a world full of monarchs. Going with the current is only fun when you are on a smooth course. Even a fish will swim against the course if the river is heading towards a water fall.
This fella spoutin the anti-AI stuff on the wrong subject. its just Ai tools that assist artists wiht something like posing so they can draw with a better reference or speed up their workflow. Normal AI art is cringe and theft and stuff, but goddamn this is just for the workflow.
@@nandanthony "reducing the workflow" in art can only happen if you have help or time enough to make better art. AI just flattens the process for everyone, praising monotone works instead of unique styles. These tools can be useful only if creators weren't allowed to use these images as final results, but only as reference. Otherwise, you'll never learn what you actually like to draw or how, and only created stunted images.
Okay, this sucks but let’s cool it on the doomerism. Art is not going away because of this. People will still be creating art even if AI sticks around.
At least they don't have a writing ai 😬 the ai painter tool pisses me off because webtoon should just be paying creators enough to hire painters if they so choose. The 3d modeler seems like a decent idea because learning blendr to 3d model characters for comics is alot of time and effort for someone who doesn't need 3D models for aby other reason (though if an artist could use blendr for more applications than it's totally worth it to bite the bullet and learn 3D modeling tho!)
The 3D model conversion thing is weird. How's it gonna do the conversion? And how will this impact 3D modellers if other companies want to take their shot at doing it, too? The 3D model to rendered 2D piece is literally just a render engine, you could probably achieve the same exact thing with blender, so idk why they're acting like it's some kinda discovery
The AI painter one is actually one I support fully. There's more to coloring than just laying flat colors, you have to know how to place shadows and highlights, what tones to use for them, and how intense to make the contrast. The flats are the most boring, braindead part of it, where it feels like you're fighting the art program, not cooperating with it. I'd welcome a tool that reduces it to a single click with open arms. I still decide what colors to use and where they go, but I don't have to wrestle with selections or brush everything on manually.
Exactly! This is just proof of webtoon's greed. They'd rather do this shit than actually provide help for artists or pay them enough to be able to hire help while producing comics every single week. Webtoon artists deserve better than this half assed "tool".
@@CyberDagger003 I can see that one working. The one I take most issue with is the AI imitating the artist's style. That could go so wrong in so many ways, and shouldn't even be something that artists need. What these artists deserve is more time and money to be able to produce quality work without getting too burnt out.
You know if they're not like scraping form other artists or creators and just taking from the creator that opts in....I don't see an issue with it being AI. AI usually when it comes to art is using 1000s of images that were taken from online spaces without permission, but if its just going off the singular artist who agreed to use the program with their art its not an issue. I guess I'd need more details on how it all works and where the AI is pulling from. Getting a whole 3D model sounds amazing and super helpful! But only if it comes from my art with my permission.
Based take, but you also gotta consider that Webtoon could be dinguses, and make it so to post a webtoon on their app, you have to agree to your art being used for the AI.
I can see this being helpful for artists who are one man shows so to speak, blender modeling is a lot to learn and having an ease in to 3d modeling if that’s the method you choose is a lot. In a similar vein there are people who are colorists for manga and comics specifically but if it’s just you, you may not know all the ins and outs. But theres kind of the use case of that of how many creators who are in that category of monetized but unable to pay to expand their crew. I feel like we kind of culturally know the kinds of “short cuts” that get taken on tight form content, where cartoon shows have a set amount of models, or you might have a specific saved pen on your drawing app for a hairstyle you use a lot, or even the cloning tool. The issue with this comes to the point of where you’re feeding into a system that is going to steal content, when you’re being forced on tighter deadlines because they expect better output based on the tools you have, or people misusing or overusing tools in a dishonest way. Because it’s kind of the line of if they’re going to be giving people 2-3 models and having them switch out hair and eyes and call it a day, or toss on a filter to make it look hand drawn. I think there’s a lot of space for misuse as well as some space for people to just kind of enjoy being creative and creating in the ways that the old Episode apps and similar did, or even Gatcha Life. And web toons is going to have to decide if they’re comfortable going that route for sure
This actually gives me hope to publish the plot I have in manga form, but at the same time, I really REALLY don't wanna be called an "AI Artist." if those even exist.
Please don’t because It will influence others to do the same🙏 Ai comics will become more and more common. Please try to either learn/do art yourself, get an artist to help, or just don’t make it a comic and do novel form instead.
There is no such thing as an "AI artist". It's a stupid term that techbros coined to make themselves feel included. Using AI to create "art" is lazy and offers no real creativity. Please put in the effort and learn to draw yourself. Everyone starts somewhere.
Honestly Id recommend either starting to draw right now, or wait until AI 'art' ( Idgaf if people hate the term for obvious reasons, I dont even know what else to call it ) is normalized and advances enough to where its unrecognizable from art.
Shaper is a good example of Ai being used as a tool instead of trying to steal the ones that are using them. I'm not sure how ai painter works (is it really just filling in color? If it is, its not a problem at all. Unless.) but it and the last one is really not it..
You know the auto painting color seems like a better use for AI or whatever algorithm it uses for people who couldn't bother to do clean line art to do coloring.
my question is if you’re trying to create a webcomic but you literally can’t be bothered to yknow MAKE A COMIC then have you ever considered just writing a book 😭
Ai has been messing with me. I’m scared to post my art for fear that it may be used. I’m trying to be positive and fight AI art. But heard about how many art websites are now trying to introduce their mess with me. It often feels like we don’t have anywhere to go that is safe to post. Ai makes it hard to enjoy art at times as I’m constantly anxious if the art I’m loving is actually some ai work.
yeah Ai really makes everything possible, with that include people who didn't draw taking shortcuts with it and claimed it theirs. But I can assure you that art can be anything you want and Ai are only specifically good at certain art style. Dont be discouraged by it and really make use of your time to study foreshortening and angles and your own unique brushes that Ai will be hard to replicate.
If you give the AI your own training data and build it up with your own images... I'm still mixed about it but fine. Otherwise this will just become a bot infested cash grab and stealing others art. No bueno.
That doesn't exist for the actual models to exist they needed 5 billion images of pre training data (copyrighted material and illegal data) now think a bit and imagine how someone can match that quantity of data to create a 'clean' model, can't happen, even the most 'close' model to this 'mitsua diffusion' used all the CC0 (public domain art available) that means all the art in human art history and even with all that mitsua diffusion cant give an 'acceptable' output. So mo if anyopne tells you that is using a clean 'model' or a model solely trained on 'his' work is a lie.
@@elleplaygod Yes, I should have said using your own images as the input to create new ones. And that is why I'm still iffy about the usage of these things; As you said... It is not trained on 1 artists images or legal material.
i think this is actually an ok use of ai asides from the constella thing, i always struggle with visualising art as 3d shapes when i have to draw my characters from a different angle
I mean, it sounds like it's the same stuff that half the artist in WebToons already does that is tracing over 3D models, but this saves you the step of Tracing over it. Like, just puts a filter over it that makes it look 2D, from all the controversial and unethical stuff that AI can do, this one looks like the less harmful. It dosn't really looks that impressive. In the test it even takes the flattest character ever and makes it even flatter. I feel that you could do a better job in 30 minutes doing it by hand, than generate it and then fixing all the details that didn't translate well.
Honestly, I don't have a problem with this if it's exactly how you describe. You'd still have to pose the models yourself, come up with a unique composition and storyboard, as well as still actually write the story. (Assuming no one uses a different ai for that..)
You know, I have a very complicated relationship with Ai, because I personally have a complicated relationship with making art. I don't necessarily draw because I want to, I do it to get the picture in my head on "paper." I learned to draw for that selfish reason, so anything that makes me personal goal easier is great. But the people who love making it... I worry about them.
Honestly fair. Not sure about Korean specifcally, but I know that Japanese comic artists get overworked to literal hell. And honestly the "drawing to pose able 3D model" tool does sound pretty dang cool.
Honestly I think you have way to much faith in the companies. Your option sounds reasonable. The reality will be that they throw out a lot of people and less people will do the same amount of work and hours. For a company that's the cheaper option. And since it works now, they'll just save money and continue to work their staff as they do now.
@@TheNork7 Yeah you're right. I am only training for full time employment as an artist. Haven't had any real experience with big companies yet. That being said, what about self-employed comic book artists? What of them?
One thhing is exploitatation bad job practices, but instead of using an unethical software, and parasitic tech, what needa to change is the work culture.
this is significantly better than generative. the last one is quite offy though, cause then you could probably copy an artstyle thag way and I'm not really sure how they would noderate that...
Hate it. I'd rather they just pay artists more and offer less strict deadlines (monthly, bi-weekly) than see what monstrosity they'll cobble together with whatever AI they put out. Why does every industry think they can just slap AI into the mix and profit??
Novels can't really pass the feeling of what you want which is really frustrating. Btw, AIs are even good for novels, i was writing my own novel and i used AI to make images in parts that would've been understood better by image than by text, it's pretty damn cool and useful
I feel so mixed with this. Like, comic work is tough, it's grueling, often you are told to expect to drop having a social life if you wanna go into it. As long as these tools aren't using art they don't have permission for to train it, I think it's okay. I don't know if it's best to be used for every panel, but those panels that are basicly you drawing a 3/4 veiw of your character for the 1,000 time, or a pose you can draw it woukd just take longer to do it without a 3d modle, why not? I don't know if I would want to use it. I guess I view it kinda like interpolation for animation, good sometimes, shouldn't be used every single time. Plus like I'm sure these images will need to be tweaked by the artist, helping things to not look super same-y. I feel like I'm more concerned about quality drops then anything, but if it saves artists from getting carple tunnel at age 25 I think I can live with it haha
I understand the idea and the appeal as someone who is currently wanting to make a comic, but lacks the base art skills required (as I'm used to abstract paintings) and while I could understand the idea of using it, I find that even though it's frustrating it's more satisfying to draw out a complete and complex idea or story out yourself
That's all about Ai, its unethical uses stolen data and content and appeals for people that thinks that 'ideas' are more important than the work itself (scammers, grifters, con artists, tracers, plagiarists, etc.)
@@nandanthony"Hire someone to draw for you" As if that's anywhere near cheap💀 the person you'd be paying to draw for you also has bills to pay just like you so if both have bills to pay paying for your bills and theirs is completely out of question
So, the first one is basically a fancy color picker? Also, Shaper is just like, using Blender or UE to pose models. Neat, nice tool. 7/10. Constella is where it gets shady. Also, its Webtoon. I already dont trust em as far as i can throw em.
wow, I wonder where they got the data set for these tools 🤔 might be interesting to look into their tos about what rights creators retain to their work when they upload to webtoon
@m4rzb4rz-qq3yq What do you mean? Image based generative ai uses a dataset obviously, and in this case, it would have to have been trained on a large amount of manga-type illustrations. Usually, that doesn't involve getting the artists' permissions or paying them, which I find immoral personally.
I'm confused... Webtoon is a platform for uploading your work, not for creating it, so why and how would they be providing tools to help work on the process?
This makes me apprehensive that most of these platforms will have Ai stuff....I wonder if Tapas will get in on it as welm; I was hoping to post my comic on there
This is why many webcomic creators reccomend starting your own website to host your comics, as well as in case a platform suddenly shuts down. Running a website costs money, but if you use a website creator (I used to use Wix a lot for free, I imagine you could use that as well for such a purpose) for it, you should be fine. Most of them you don't even need to pay for, or at least didn't last I checked.
this is exactly what ai is made for, helping not creating it and stealing it entirely (okay yall stop attacking me about how its making artist lose their jobs blah blah blah, i understand but i didnt say anything about ai entirely taking the artist job, its AI. of course itll have mistakes that artists themself have to fix and stuff)
Yeah but we could argue that once it works for top creators, and they start releasing it for amateur ones, it could end pretty badly bc, you know, not all people are nice?? The problem was never the tool, but rather how it is used, and i can already see some techno bro publishing bad written ai comics saying that "he's a better artists and writter than anyone on the platform", and that sorta BS that already happens of twitter and fb ai circles already. I really wish AI was not invented when i read them full of hate and hatred towards artists that simply say "no you are not, the machine is the talented one, in any case".
@@kyupiangel90 im not sure if im getting this right but it says only for specific creators, im not really sure if this will change or not. but what ur saying is a possiblity
@blorbirb according to the video, they are currently rolling it out to the current people but are looking into similar products for amateurs. The first may be fine since it's just using your own art to turn a 3d pose you make into your own style. The latter though. Will the product simply do the same thing (so if you are bad at art it'll produce the same bad art back) or will they use the knowledge the AI gains from all of the other work to make "your art, but better"? The fact that we don't know is the real problem right now.
@@iandakariann if it's the former, then it's basically a render engine, which already comes free with any 3D modelling software, and I guess it's fine, if it doesn't steal any of the information for future "generations." But if it's the latter, then it's just Gen AI and it'll suck, it'll basically be any other gen ai with more steps. The "2D to 3D model" part is....odd to me. How is it gonna do the conversion? Is it recopiling data of any it's "generations" and uses that as a base? Because if so that's a slippery slope, because does it just get better at estimating what you want, or is it gonna pull some weird "this model and design belong to us now" shit? I feel like if that "2D to 3D" tech gets big, 3D modellers are gonna be the ones hurt instead of how 2D artists are getting hurt right now by AI.
This could be good or this could end horribly... we will only know with time i guess. But unlike other ai art stuff this one doesn't put me off as much, so hopefully it's good.
The first is actually pretty helpful! Coloring can be tedious for comics and animation, so this just helps the creators work a bit faster. But the last two.. uh.
See, this is exactly what ai could be used for instead of spewing out garbage. If something looks wonky then it could be fixed just by drawing over it.
That sounds like a huge waste of time imo. I couldn't imagine having to go back and check all the AI's mistakes- I would rather have someone to help me color and shade my art while I do the sketches. That way it stays authentic and has no mistakes.
@@monbub that is fair, especially if there are any intricate details (ie in complex designed characters, elements, color grading, etc) that AI couldn't or dare I say shouldn't handle for a better result over all Altho the prospect of auto filling is still pretty appealing, anything to make the monotonous labour less tedious definitely sounds nice to have
These are features that clip studio has, just by the way. Auto color was introduced with 3.0, as was custom model making BUT the ability to import a pose from an image, then render that 3D model into a colored 2D image (with vector lines so you can change the line width& texture) has been part of the app as long as I can remember. We need to remember that * buzzword* AI and AI as a neutral any-use term for automation are not the same thing. We can best assume that like CSP, webtoon will be using volunteers for their training data, unless thier ToS says otherwise
Honestly as long as the creators disclose the use of the tools and don't expect the same payments for works that they drew from scratch and works they created with the tools, I don't think that's a bad thing to test out
great, when it gets released for "amateur creators" we'll be flooded with even more slop from people with no artistic vision or discipline, just what we needed 💀
Better abolish this since most ai revenue goes to the company and not the artist. This just a slow march for them to replace the artist from selling art. And people using it are only feeding the monster that will eventually replace them. People thinking its just tools to speed up art, the fact that coloring is just a click when it takes a good while to even learn color theory, is concerning to say the least. Whats stopping them to go to the route of purely ai generated imagery, is the database they needed to create wherein people are unknowingly feeding it.
back in my day if you wanted to make a webcomic without drawing you downloaded a bunch of sprites from your favorite video game and added word bubbles in ms paint. both ways in the snow. AND YOU LIKED IT!
I just recently made a WEBTOON comic it’s not near my best art but after I’m done w the 2nd part I’m going to do a redraw of some the art and improve it
Honestly? It doesnt sound too bad, it doesnt generate pictures, it's a tool to make life easier, you need a good artstyle for the ai to be at least acceptable, it isnt too bad
Could've just made the painter tool and leave it at that. Professional webtoon artists tends to work with deadlines so i get searching for shortcuts, its essentially fancier bucket tool. But whats the point of making webtoon if you just gotta pose a model then an AI "draws" it for you? Might aswell not make one.
This is at least closer to what I think AI should be used for, at least. Something to HELP and artist's workflow, not do all the work itself. Because I've said it before. WE CAN'T CLOSE PANDORA'S BOX. AI is here to stay. We as artists and creatives need to DEMAND it work FOR us.
At the end of the myth Pandora indeed closes the box so no don't let Aidiots convince you that this software created by uncreative greedy technocultists, convince you that is some sort of 'innevitable' force of nature, is not, maybe can't dissapear but if you let it happen would be worst.
Well I like the idea where one can pose a character in anyway they want and turn it to 2d, I've been struggling with finding the exact poses I want and the free apps just suck, and maybe it's good for those who want to tell a story but can't draw or find someone to draw for them on a budget, but idk
Just be smart like Shinichi Sakamoto (Innocent Rouge, DRCL) and draw your characters features (eyes/amazing hair) from every angle you'll ever need and save them as individual layers
This is great advice, but one caveat that maybe should be mentioned is sometimes it is preferable to do the "less efficient thing" by focusing on longform if that's your passion. I think hobbiest and people who do whatever they do with intense passion will have a leg up over people without it (gut feeling; not based on evidence). So if you think you'd shine more due to a passion for longform content that isnt there for shortform, it may be more advantageous to do longform. But the decision is extremely personal and even then, diversifying is extremely important so familiarizing with both is probably the smartest if feasible. I dont think this apllies to streaming though because (like Geega mentioned) grinding it for a long time primarily probably won't yeild much as opposed to diverting that energy elsewhere. Shortform and/or longform is the way to start out (in a distribution that works best for you).
If their top 100 creators earned $1M annually, that’s only $10k per creator per year. Some of these people have teams and harsh deadlines, as if it’s a full time job. That is not enough money.
I thought about deleting my webtoons account when I heard how they were underpaying their creators among other things, this is the final straw, or it would be if the small creators I'm following uploaded their stuff elsewhere
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Even if AI can be used as a tool to help artists be more productive, I don't trust webtoon at all. If the productivity of their artists increase, they will ask more of them. Artist will never stop being overworked in webtoon, cause the company sucks.
Not only that, if you don't want to use AI tools... You'll probably be fucked. Cause you'll have to draw even more than before to fill in the new expectations.
Yeah, this is just going to worsen the stuff that was bad before.
They're not fixing the issues that make people be overworked, they're just applying a bandaid "fix" that will definitely go south very fast
Obviously what webtoon wants is to train their models on your art. When you use their AI tools you allow them to train on your art.
Thats capitalism.
Any time a new tool comes along that increases production, even assuming that tool just carries positives and isnt inherently flawed the way all these AI tools are, that could hypothetically mean one of two things for workers, since they can now produce more in less time:
Either they can earn more money for the same amount of work, because they produce more, or they can work less for the same pay, because it takes less time or work to accomplish the same thing.
Meanwhile for consumers it should mean product prices go down, since everything now costs less to produce.
Yet strangely, none of those ever happen, do they? Instead workers are just expected to produce more in the same amount of time while products keep getting more exspensive, and all the extra money just... vanishes...
I wonder where that money goes?
Even if AI tools werent an affront to the very idea of art, they wouldnt help anyone but the vampires at the top.
@@TheSpeep I've never seen anyone put it as well as you just did
@@TheSpeep
But those things DO happen.
I don't know what you're talking about. Things do get cheaper by implementing big newer products, but the truth is, that one part of the process that contributes to 1/3 of the costs being cut in half, isn't putting the world upside down.
It's not just an issue with capitalism, but resource management in general. Neoliberal values corrupt all systems now.
The first two made sense and actually help creators last one... Oh that last one
Neither of them help anyone, nothing in the process of making art should be "automated"
@@moritakaishida7963I feel you misunderstand! The first two ai tools are not creating automated work so much as just a tool to be used by the artist. The 3d model can be moved to create a reference for the artist, that way they can physically move and see what a character's hair and clothes should look like at different angles. Then you draw with that reference. I sometimes dress up poseable dolls in real life to do the same thing, but having a 3d model with the appropriate proportions for the specific character would be a very useful tool!!
@@dino_folly though you can also just use pictures references to get a similar result. And there are tutorials that can help you make your character look accurately proportional. While a 3D model is helpful, so does pictures.
I wouldn't use those for comics. Comics are more than just pictures and ai can't do it. Visual storytelling is very important in comics. Composition, positioning, poses, perspective, contrast, colors, metaphors, anatomy and it's simplification, silhouettes, use of space, panelling, typography and many more things. You can't do visual storytelling properly with ai.
@@dino_folly Sounds like a good way to get awfully generic poses, and stiff movement. Which is the biggest turn off for any reader since the scenes are just mannequins shuffling awkardly around the stage lol.
Ah yes, the classic "throw in a bunch of buzzwords to hide that we're introducing AI to our art website".
Exactly! It's like every ad I see is just buzzword vomit to promote ai
I don't see the problem with this kind of ai tho
It's just a tool
Not an autopilot
@@nk__ bruh, Ai is autopilot
@@nk__ It's like using a calculator at a math competition, Is that fair?
@@nk__ the problem with most of these AI implementation in art tho, they'll use it as an excuse to expect more & much more frequent work from you while they pay you much less, and potentially even charging you for usage of said tools in the future.
Their excuse will be, everybody's using the AI tools & are putting out 'good looking' work faster & they won't tolerate those that don't work fast. They will also 100% compare you with those that put out more & faster work with AI, and will pay you the same amount as them. That is, granted you can output as much & as fast as the AI tool users.
And if everyone accepts it anyway & just opt for AI usage, then they will still see it as an excuse to reduce pay anyway by saying there's too much creators going around to pay everyone more or something like that.
Then, we're also not gonna look at the fact that most of everyone will be going with the most optimal style the AI provide & everyone's webtoon will end up looking artificial & the same. And since 'everyone can draw with AI', there will be heavy saturation in output. That will just not end well.
The tech is good & cool, but the way the industry is going around implementing it is very exploitative & destructive in the long run.
Is there any art platform that isn’t trying to use ai these days?! Jeez I just want to find a place to post art without ai
cara! it’s a great app for artists :)
Cara?@@EtheralCaelifer
As someone else said, Cara is a great place for specifically artists to post their work without worrying about it being fed to AI (the app is strictly against AI art and has recently gained a lot of activity after Instagram started uploading everything on its dumbass site to ai)
Cara
Does Pixiv use ai?
Any artist who has used 3D models for posing knows there is a delicate balance you need to strike when using them as reference so your characters don’t look stiff and unnatural. They’re basically coming up with ways to keep artists working at an insane pace when they could be getting good results by lightening the load on creators…
Your coment is soo real about it i agree with u sm
Exactly
YES SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT
If you ever wanted to be an artist without being an artist...
Ive got a ton of other things to study so if I can pick up a skill (or something id like to do but cant make time for) without spending 10,000 hours, SIGN ME UP :D
@@sheeplegend1324 "generating pictures" is not a skill
@@ABSTREKT But they'll sit there for 30 hours regenerating images until they get something remotely usable. and that's a stretch. Imagine all those hours added up learning nothing.
@@sheeplegend1324 "You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
You didn't grow.
You didn't improve.
You took a shortcut and gained nothing.
You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained.
It's sad you don't know the difference."
@@4pigeons if we ever meet in 20 years, we'll see which of us is right - for now, have a good day
We are so cooked
Not yet! Don’t give up yet fellow artist! This is a faze for the world and humans will be recognized, we just have to fight it back! Don’t let any corporation take your art!
@@TheRatKingOwO honestly needed to read this lol
@@TheRatKingOwO Yeah, we should make it clear to these companies that we don't want AI and won't support them if they continue to push this shit out
@@monbub It's like fighting for privacy, you quickly learn that the closer you get to it, the more you have to sacrifice. This will become the same for art and AI.
true, but you're not alone
*unless you wanna do an epik quest to turn off the internet source globally and permanantly and get sent to jail for doing so for the sake of reversing AI for a few hundred years :D*
I feel at bit mixed with this.
On one hand, this might be encouraging let alone helpful for those feeling discouraged.
On the other hand, expect more garbage from this site
DEFINITELY expect a lot more garbage. Gonna take a few years for this technology to reach _some_ level of polish without being _too_ bland and uninspiring.
No there's no ethical models or use for Ai and even if it becomes 'etchical' you don't hold any copyright over the output
@@elleplaygodnah this fine i think it's a great tool if you struggle with posing your character and people could use this instead of those plain Mannequin to see how it would look like before drawing it (sorry for bad English)
@@omarbenjelloun2271That's literally can be done by referencing ANY other drawing???
@@elleplaygod You can use AI ethically if it's only your art that's given with permission being used. It's when it's scrapping 1000s of images off of websites when it's an issue.
The second spiderverse movie used AI with just their team of artists, who all agreed and used the program only for the film, so AI can be helpful! It's just mostly used for stealing art at the moment because it's new and no laws have been made to regulate it yet.
comic is all about two things: drawing and storytelling. If you suck at either of them, you already lost 50%. Unless you are masters like ONE Sensei, but even ONE Sensei improved his drawing throughout the years.
I think these tools can help those "one man band" mangakas but, at the same time, encourage(?) more ppl that "suck at either of them" getting into the comic industry. Hence, lower the level of the comic industry.
I honestly think you don’t have to be good at drawing to make an excellent comic, just look at a bunch of comics artists on r/comics and you’ll see lots of “bad drawings”. But they tell amazing stories and some with good messages too. But story telling on the other hand? Yeh you need to be pretty dang good at that for people to get invested in the first place or at least good enough for people to see your potential and root for your improvement.
You have to atleast know how to tell the stories and how page/panel actually work
They're not tools and they wouldn't even help solo creators
Exactly, artists that are too tired to draw should be able to hire more artists to help them! Webtoon should help by supplying these artists or funding creators sufficiently so that they can afford having help. But AI...that's not solving the issue at all, it's just making their comic even lazier and low effort. I guess this is webtoon's way of getting away with paying authors less than what they deserve, despite making them produce comics every week.
Exactly. We don't need more trash flooding the industry
Wow an ai tool that fills in colors for me wowwe, it's not like we didn't have that already for like years now. 🙄🙄
Wait where?
@@toycarstudios5922 I’m mentioning the bucket tool. Although I admit that some bucket tool features need a little maneuvering, (this will probably need maneuvering too) it just feels like they’re taking stuff and renaming it. When in reality they didn’t need to; they could have just made the tool we already had better. It’s what they did with grammarly, same tools just more refined and labeled AI.
@@toycarstudios5922 also I’m pretty sure they’re sites that already do this if I’m not mistaken, I unfortunately cannot remember or give a specific example or site. Which I apologize for.
Ooooh yeah, you have a point. Although I don’t use the fill in tool, as my lines aren’t always completely connected, and it leaves crusty uncolored spots places. Perhaps if it fixed what the fill in tool fails at, it could be promising, but you are correct, it is just a refined fill in tool.
There are tools that use AI to colour drawings in ibis paint and csp and have been for multiple years by now, they aren't very good though. And no I'm not talking about the bucket tool.
WAIT WAIT WAIT. like a good while ago there was an event where fans could take a picture of themselves and it would draw you in the style of that creator.
Was that feeding them data?
very probably :' /
That would be a different type of data though. Converting a drawing to a 3d model or a 3d model to a drawing is a different task from converting a photo to a drawing.
With that logic then all filters are AI, which they're not, so no. Maybe a handful of them were but there are alot of trends thats similar to what you said so im not sure which one you're talking about
*Yes it was.*
You think it was by happenstance that AI started growing from that point?
@@V6HAVOC the problem is that AI is a buzzword now. Companies are now using it for programs that already existed that the word has lost meaning at this point.
Can we just STOP with the AI stuff? Like please, it's become a predatory parasite on the creative mind
dont try to swim against the flow of the river. Tech cant be stopped just be flexible and adapt to all the bs they throw.
@@Damian_DHYeah, if this was how we lived then we would still be living in a world full of monarchs.
Going with the current is only fun when you are on a smooth course. Even a fish will swim against the course if the river is heading towards a water fall.
This fella spoutin the anti-AI stuff on the wrong subject.
its just Ai tools that assist artists wiht something like posing so they can draw with a better reference or speed up their workflow.
Normal AI art is cringe and theft and stuff, but goddamn this is just for the workflow.
@@nandanthony "reducing the workflow" in art can only happen if you have help or time enough to make better art. AI just flattens the process for everyone, praising monotone works instead of unique styles.
These tools can be useful only if creators weren't allowed to use these images as final results, but only as reference. Otherwise, you'll never learn what you actually like to draw or how, and only created stunted images.
The genie is out of the lamp. There is no going back.
This explains a lot of the "art" I've seen on webtoon recently
going public = death sentence
We're witnessing the death of creativity chat, i dont wanna know what kind of sci fi dystopia we're going to be living in
Creativity continues to live on. The corpos can go fuck themselves I’ll draw my gay characters regardless.
Okay, this sucks but let’s cool it on the doomerism. Art is not going away because of this. People will still be creating art even if AI sticks around.
You are literally a Luddite who says that art will die because of the photo
Why would 3d models kill creativity? Iean I don't think you have any right to talk about creativity when everything you do is scrolling on ur phone 💀
@@gooseta9583to be fair while I'm not saying art will die because of AI the majority of portraits painters vanished after photos were introduced.
Wow, and I wanted to post my future comic there, nevermind I guess
Samee
Same
At least they don't have a writing ai 😬 the ai painter tool pisses me off because webtoon should just be paying creators enough to hire painters if they so choose. The 3d modeler seems like a decent idea because learning blendr to 3d model characters for comics is alot of time and effort for someone who doesn't need 3D models for aby other reason (though if an artist could use blendr for more applications than it's totally worth it to bite the bullet and learn 3D modeling tho!)
Only a matter of time until we get writing AI too tho🫤, soon we’ll see comics and movies with AI scripts and bestselling AI novels
The 3D model conversion thing is weird. How's it gonna do the conversion? And how will this impact 3D modellers if other companies want to take their shot at doing it, too?
The 3D model to rendered 2D piece is literally just a render engine, you could probably achieve the same exact thing with blender, so idk why they're acting like it's some kinda discovery
The AI painter one is actually one I support fully. There's more to coloring than just laying flat colors, you have to know how to place shadows and highlights, what tones to use for them, and how intense to make the contrast. The flats are the most boring, braindead part of it, where it feels like you're fighting the art program, not cooperating with it. I'd welcome a tool that reduces it to a single click with open arms. I still decide what colors to use and where they go, but I don't have to wrestle with selections or brush everything on manually.
Exactly! This is just proof of webtoon's greed. They'd rather do this shit than actually provide help for artists or pay them enough to be able to hire help while producing comics every single week. Webtoon artists deserve better than this half assed "tool".
@@CyberDagger003 I can see that one working. The one I take most issue with is the AI imitating the artist's style. That could go so wrong in so many ways, and shouldn't even be something that artists need. What these artists deserve is more time and money to be able to produce quality work without getting too burnt out.
the sigh gets straight to the point
Bro what
Pin of shame 😊
@@SoloAnima1 it's not pinned?
@@looberdoober I’m asking for the pin of shame
I think u should edit this to say “gets” straight to the point because rn the typo kinda makes it look like ur hating💀like ur telling her to hurry up
You know if they're not like scraping form other artists or creators and just taking from the creator that opts in....I don't see an issue with it being AI.
AI usually when it comes to art is using 1000s of images that were taken from online spaces without permission, but if its just going off the singular artist who agreed to use the program with their art its not an issue. I guess I'd need more details on how it all works and where the AI is pulling from. Getting a whole 3D model sounds amazing and super helpful!
But only if it comes from my art with my permission.
Based take, but you also gotta consider that Webtoon could be dinguses, and make it so
to post a webtoon on their app, you have to agree to your art being used for the AI.
I can see this being helpful for artists who are one man shows so to speak, blender modeling is a lot to learn and having an ease in to 3d modeling if that’s the method you choose is a lot. In a similar vein there are people who are colorists for manga and comics specifically but if it’s just you, you may not know all the ins and outs. But theres kind of the use case of that of how many creators who are in that category of monetized but unable to pay to expand their crew. I feel like we kind of culturally know the kinds of “short cuts” that get taken on tight form content, where cartoon shows have a set amount of models, or you might have a specific saved pen on your drawing app for a hairstyle you use a lot, or even the cloning tool. The issue with this comes to the point of where you’re feeding into a system that is going to steal content, when you’re being forced on tighter deadlines because they expect better output based on the tools you have, or people misusing or overusing tools in a dishonest way. Because it’s kind of the line of if they’re going to be giving people 2-3 models and having them switch out hair and eyes and call it a day, or toss on a filter to make it look hand drawn. I think there’s a lot of space for misuse as well as some space for people to just kind of enjoy being creative and creating in the ways that the old Episode apps and similar did, or even Gatcha Life. And web toons is going to have to decide if they’re comfortable going that route for sure
This actually gives me hope to publish the plot I have in manga form, but at the same time, I really REALLY don't wanna be called an "AI Artist." if those even exist.
Please don’t because It will influence others to do the same🙏 Ai comics will become more and more common. Please try to either learn/do art yourself, get an artist to help, or just don’t make it a comic and do novel form instead.
There is no such thing as an "AI artist". It's a stupid term that techbros coined to make themselves feel included. Using AI to create "art" is lazy and offers no real creativity. Please put in the effort and learn to draw yourself. Everyone starts somewhere.
Honestly Id recommend either starting to draw right now, or wait until AI 'art' ( Idgaf if people hate the term for obvious reasons, I dont even know what else to call it ) is normalized and advances enough to where its unrecognizable from art.
Shaper is a good example of Ai being used as a tool instead of trying to steal the ones that are using them. I'm not sure how ai painter works (is it really just filling in color? If it is, its not a problem at all. Unless.) but it and the last one is really not it..
All “AI” has to be trained with existing art/words/images/etc.
You know the auto painting color seems like a better use for AI or whatever algorithm it uses for people who couldn't bother to do clean line art to do coloring.
I hope no one actually uses the 3D model thing as it just sounds like a thinly veiled scheme to get ai to learn from the source 💀
if you ever wanted to make a webcomic without drawing then good news! we invented this new thing called a BOOK.
Books get less audience and have more trouble passing the feeling and idea tho
my question is if you’re trying to create a webcomic but you literally can’t be bothered to yknow MAKE A COMIC then have you ever considered just writing a book 😭
Ai has been messing with me. I’m scared to post my art for fear that it may be used. I’m trying to be positive and fight AI art. But heard about how many art websites are now trying to introduce their mess with me. It often feels like we don’t have anywhere to go that is safe to post. Ai makes it hard to enjoy art at times as I’m constantly anxious if the art I’m loving is actually some ai work.
yeah Ai really makes everything possible, with that include people who didn't draw taking shortcuts with it and claimed it theirs. But I can assure you that art can be anything you want and Ai are only specifically good at certain art style. Dont be discouraged by it and really make use of your time to study foreshortening and angles and your own unique brushes that Ai will be hard to replicate.
If you give the AI your own training data and build it up with your own images... I'm still mixed about it but fine. Otherwise this will just become a bot infested cash grab and stealing others art. No bueno.
That doesn't exist for the actual models to exist they needed 5 billion images of pre training data (copyrighted material and illegal data) now think a bit and imagine how someone can match that quantity of data to create a 'clean' model, can't happen, even the most 'close' model to this 'mitsua diffusion' used all the CC0 (public domain art available) that means all the art in human art history and even with all that mitsua diffusion cant give an 'acceptable' output. So mo if anyopne tells you that is using a clean 'model' or a model solely trained on 'his' work is a lie.
@@elleplaygod Yes, I should have said using your own images as the input to create new ones.
And that is why I'm still iffy about the usage of these things; As you said... It is not trained on 1 artists images or legal material.
i think this is actually an ok use of ai asides from the constella thing, i always struggle with visualising art as 3d shapes when i have to draw my characters from a different angle
I mean, it sounds like it's the same stuff that half the artist in WebToons already does that is tracing over 3D models, but this saves you the step of Tracing over it.
Like, just puts a filter over it that makes it look 2D, from all the controversial and unethical stuff that AI can do, this one looks like the less harmful.
It dosn't really looks that impressive. In the test it even takes the flattest character ever and makes it even flatter. I feel that you could do a better job in 30 minutes doing it by hand, than generate it and then fixing all the details that didn't translate well.
This. It takes more time to fix the mistakes than it is to do it from scratch or with the help of 3d models
At this point when we apply for art school we’re gonna have to show our entire process
Honestly, I don't have a problem with this if it's exactly how you describe. You'd still have to pose the models yourself, come up with a unique composition and storyboard, as well as still actually write the story. (Assuming no one uses a different ai for that..)
You're assuming too much of lazy ai mf's
You know, I have a very complicated relationship with Ai, because I personally have a complicated relationship with making art. I don't necessarily draw because I want to, I do it to get the picture in my head on "paper." I learned to draw for that selfish reason, so anything that makes me personal goal easier is great. But the people who love making it... I worry about them.
Honestly fair. Not sure about Korean specifcally, but I know that Japanese comic artists get overworked to literal hell.
And honestly the "drawing to pose able 3D model" tool does sound pretty dang cool.
Yeah, I could see it used to loosen up a person's workload.
Honestly I think you have way to much faith in the companies.
Your option sounds reasonable.
The reality will be that they throw out a lot of people and less people will do the same amount of work and hours. For a company that's the cheaper option.
And since it works now, they'll just save money and continue to work their staff as they do now.
@@TheNork7 Yeah you're right. I am only training for full time employment as an artist. Haven't had any real experience with big companies yet.
That being said, what about self-employed comic book artists? What of them?
One thhing is exploitatation bad job practices, but instead of using an unethical software, and parasitic tech, what needa to change is the work culture.
Why, instead of changing what makes people be overworked, are we encouraging bandaid "fixes"??
this is significantly better than generative.
the last one is quite offy though, cause then you could probably copy an artstyle thag way and I'm not really sure how they would noderate that...
It's generative (Gen'Ai') just using image to image (i2i),
Hate it. I'd rather they just pay artists more and offer less strict deadlines (monthly, bi-weekly) than see what monstrosity they'll cobble together with whatever AI they put out. Why does every industry think they can just slap AI into the mix and profit??
In a not long time ago if you didn't wanted to drawn you usually would write a novel.
Novels can't really pass the feeling of what you want which is really frustrating. Btw, AIs are even good for novels, i was writing my own novel and i used AI to make images in parts that would've been understood better by image than by text, it's pretty damn cool and useful
I feel so mixed with this. Like, comic work is tough, it's grueling, often you are told to expect to drop having a social life if you wanna go into it. As long as these tools aren't using art they don't have permission for to train it, I think it's okay. I don't know if it's best to be used for every panel, but those panels that are basicly you drawing a 3/4 veiw of your character for the 1,000 time, or a pose you can draw it woukd just take longer to do it without a 3d modle, why not? I don't know if I would want to use it. I guess I view it kinda like interpolation for animation, good sometimes, shouldn't be used every single time. Plus like I'm sure these images will need to be tweaked by the artist, helping things to not look super same-y. I feel like I'm more concerned about quality drops then anything, but if it saves artists from getting carple tunnel at age 25 I think I can live with it haha
well I hope at least this gives a boost to those creators that are more storytelling focused than action and dynamics oriented
I understand the idea and the appeal as someone who is currently wanting to make a comic, but lacks the base art skills required (as I'm used to abstract paintings) and while I could understand the idea of using it, I find that even though it's frustrating it's more satisfying to draw out a complete and complex idea or story out yourself
That's all about Ai, its unethical uses stolen data and content and appeals for people that thinks that 'ideas' are more important than the work itself (scammers, grifters, con artists, tracers, plagiarists, etc.)
one day we would be able create a full fletch webtoon with an ending without being able to draw nor write a story in a single day lmao
Okay welp! never uploading my comic to webtoon now! lets hope tapas never goes down the same path
They have a policy since 2023 disallowing AI webcomics so that's a good sign.
I love the description you gave for the AI painter because it honestly just sounds like the paint bucket tool lol
Because it's.
I was like, what's the difference between it and the selection tool + the bucket tool on a different layer
If you want to make your own story, but you don't want to draw, WRITE A NOVEL
weird take, smh. Just hire someone to draw the art for you.
@@nandanthony"Hire someone to draw for you" As if that's anywhere near cheap💀
the person you'd be paying to draw for you also has bills to pay just like you so if both have bills to pay paying for your bills and theirs is completely out of question
Okay these arent as horrible as i would have thought considering the insane time creators have to post an episode it would be a huge time saver
So, the first one is basically a fancy color picker? Also, Shaper is just like, using Blender or UE to pose models. Neat, nice tool. 7/10.
Constella is where it gets shady. Also, its Webtoon. I already dont trust em as far as i can throw em.
Fuck, as someone who uses the app a lot and it already has a lot of issues as a platform alone, this is going to be a mess 😓
as long as the artists on webtoon polish the ais after using them and this doesnt get out of hand (ai writing anything AT ALL) im fine with this
wow, I wonder where they got the data set for these tools 🤔
might be interesting to look into their tos about what rights creators retain to their work when they upload to webtoon
Learn how ai works before yapping
@m4rzb4rz-qq3yq What do you mean? Image based generative ai uses a dataset obviously, and in this case, it would have to have been trained on a large amount of manga-type illustrations.
Usually, that doesn't involve getting the artists' permissions or paying them, which I find immoral personally.
I'm confused... Webtoon is a platform for uploading your work, not for creating it, so why and how would they be providing tools to help work on the process?
I agree, but shaper looks really useful. If I could have 3D models of my characters to pose however I wanted it would help me SO MUCH.
This makes me apprehensive that most of these platforms will have Ai stuff....I wonder if Tapas will get in on it as welm; I was hoping to post my comic on there
This is why many webcomic creators reccomend starting your own website to host your comics, as well as in case a platform suddenly shuts down. Running a website costs money, but if you use a website creator (I used to use Wix a lot for free, I imagine you could use that as well for such a purpose) for it, you should be fine. Most of them you don't even need to pay for, or at least didn't last I checked.
Okay but creating a 3D model from a drawing is kinda sick actually
this is exactly what ai is made for, helping not creating it and stealing it entirely
(okay yall stop attacking me about how its making artist lose their jobs blah blah blah, i understand but i didnt say anything about ai entirely taking the artist job, its AI. of course itll have mistakes that artists themself have to fix and stuff)
Yeah but we could argue that once it works for top creators, and they start releasing it for amateur ones, it could end pretty badly bc, you know, not all people are nice??
The problem was never the tool, but rather how it is used, and i can already see some techno bro publishing bad written ai comics saying that "he's a better artists and writter than anyone on the platform", and that sorta BS that already happens of twitter and fb ai circles already.
I really wish AI was not invented when i read them full of hate and hatred towards artists that simply say "no you are not, the machine is the talented one, in any case".
@@kyupiangel90 im not sure if im getting this right but it says only for specific creators, im not really sure if this will change or not. but what ur saying is a possiblity
@blorbirb according to the video, they are currently rolling it out to the current people but are looking into similar products for amateurs.
The first may be fine since it's just using your own art to turn a 3d pose you make into your own style.
The latter though. Will the product simply do the same thing (so if you are bad at art it'll produce the same bad art back) or will they use the knowledge the AI gains from all of the other work to make "your art, but better"?
The fact that we don't know is the real problem right now.
NO
@@iandakariann if it's the former, then it's basically a render engine, which already comes free with any 3D modelling software, and I guess it's fine, if it doesn't steal any of the information for future "generations." But if it's the latter, then it's just Gen AI and it'll suck, it'll basically be any other gen ai with more steps.
The "2D to 3D model" part is....odd to me. How is it gonna do the conversion? Is it recopiling data of any it's "generations" and uses that as a base? Because if so that's a slippery slope, because does it just get better at estimating what you want, or is it gonna pull some weird "this model and design belong to us now" shit?
I feel like if that "2D to 3D" tech gets big, 3D modellers are gonna be the ones hurt instead of how 2D artists are getting hurt right now by AI.
I'm excited for this! Maybe I can actually make the comics I wanted to for over a decade!
As an artist/animator, i dislike ai art even if it's being used as a "tool" cause what's the point if you can't do it on your own.
To see your ideas represented in a visible midia without having to spend years learning how to draw and even better, 100% free
This also means that they have been/will be using your art for training models without your permission.
If someone wants to write a story without drawing , they could write a book!
With the amount of overwork those artists are facing... Yeah, I think those tools will be very helpful to save their health
I'm all against AI "art" but isn't the first one basically just a better bucket tool?
Not really a better version but yes
And there goes my motivation flying right out the window
This could be good or this could end horribly... we will only know with time i guess. But unlike other ai art stuff this one doesn't put me off as much, so hopefully it's good.
What a funny way for webtoon to say "hey we dont value artist skills and just need to make fast content to maximize the money in our pockets!"
It could help me that have dysprawia but first comes training and a lot of training
The first is actually pretty helpful! Coloring can be tedious for comics and animation, so this just helps the creators work a bit faster. But the last two.. uh.
See, this is exactly what ai could be used for instead of spewing out garbage. If something looks wonky then it could be fixed just by drawing over it.
That sounds like a huge waste of time imo. I couldn't imagine having to go back and check all the AI's mistakes- I would rather have someone to help me color and shade my art while I do the sketches. That way it stays authentic and has no mistakes.
@@monbub Trace the ai art in your own art style is what I meant. Even better to just use it as a reference point.
@@monbub"OoOO CoLoR My CoMiC!"
@@monbub that is fair, especially if there are any intricate details (ie in complex designed characters, elements, color grading, etc) that AI couldn't or dare I say shouldn't handle for a better result over all
Altho the prospect of auto filling is still pretty appealing, anything to make the monotonous labour less tedious definitely sounds nice to have
These are features that clip studio has, just by the way. Auto color was introduced with 3.0, as was custom model making BUT the ability to import a pose from an image, then render that 3D model into a colored 2D image (with vector lines so you can change the line width& texture) has been part of the app as long as I can remember.
We need to remember that * buzzword* AI and AI as a neutral any-use term for automation are not the same thing. We can best assume that like CSP, webtoon will be using volunteers for their training data, unless thier ToS says otherwise
YAY! INFINITE SLOP!!
Honestly as long as the creators disclose the use of the tools and don't expect the same payments for works that they drew from scratch and works they created with the tools, I don't think that's a bad thing to test out
Ai has become a parasite to artists we need to stop ai art. Ai art is not real art. AI bros, come at me!
That’s how every webtoon will look the exact same.
great, when it gets released for "amateur creators" we'll be flooded with even more slop from people with no artistic vision or discipline, just what we needed 💀
Better abolish this since most ai revenue goes to the company and not the artist.
This just a slow march for them to replace the artist from selling art. And people using it are only feeding the monster that will eventually replace them.
People thinking its just tools to speed up art, the fact that coloring is just a click when it takes a good while to even learn color theory, is concerning to say the least.
Whats stopping them to go to the route of purely ai generated imagery, is the database they needed to create wherein people are unknowingly feeding it.
I'm so sick of Ai I just want to see art
back in my day if you wanted to make a webcomic without drawing you downloaded a bunch of sprites from your favorite video game and added word bubbles in ms paint. both ways in the snow. AND YOU LIKED IT!
When the real artists will boycott this company? They are nothing without the real artists. AI is just a joke...
I just recently made a WEBTOON comic it’s not near my best art but after I’m done w the 2nd part I’m going to do a redraw of some the art and improve it
Honestly? It doesnt sound too bad, it doesnt generate pictures, it's a tool to make life easier, you need a good artstyle for the ai to be at least acceptable, it isnt too bad
What do you think it does when it converts the 3d models into a 2d image? It's basically an image to image AI in disguise.
Tbh this is a pretty chill use of AI
Could've just made the painter tool and leave it at that. Professional webtoon artists tends to work with deadlines so i get searching for shortcuts, its essentially fancier bucket tool. But whats the point of making webtoon if you just gotta pose a model then an AI "draws" it for you? Might aswell not make one.
I imagine if this were a medium where an artist’s style is a selling point, this wouldn’t be a good idea.
Hmmmmmmmmmm
If you want to make a comic but can’t draw, you write a book. The whole point of webcomics is the combined skills of drawing and writing. So annoying
This is at least closer to what I think AI should be used for, at least. Something to HELP and artist's workflow, not do all the work itself.
Because I've said it before. WE CAN'T CLOSE PANDORA'S BOX. AI is here to stay. We as artists and creatives need to DEMAND it work FOR us.
At the end of the myth Pandora indeed closes the box so no don't let Aidiots convince you that this software created by uncreative greedy technocultists, convince you that is some sort of 'innevitable' force of nature, is not, maybe can't dissapear but if you let it happen would be worst.
Well I like the idea where one can pose a character in anyway they want and turn it to 2d, I've been struggling with finding the exact poses I want and the free apps just suck, and maybe it's good for those who want to tell a story but can't draw or find someone to draw for them on a budget, but idk
boooo
I'm glad that what there is so far is not very good at completely replacing people, but I hope that continues.
Just be smart like Shinichi Sakamoto (Innocent Rouge, DRCL) and draw your characters features (eyes/amazing hair) from every angle you'll ever need and save them as individual layers
If artists are able to draw those comics faster won't they be expected to churn out more pages in a shorter amount of time?
This is great advice, but one caveat that maybe should be mentioned is sometimes it is preferable to do the "less efficient thing" by focusing on longform if that's your passion.
I think hobbiest and people who do whatever they do with intense passion will have a leg up over people without it (gut feeling; not based on evidence). So if you think you'd shine more due to a passion for longform content that isnt there for shortform, it may be more advantageous to do longform. But the decision is extremely personal and even then, diversifying is extremely important so familiarizing with both is probably the smartest if feasible.
I dont think this apllies to streaming though because (like Geega mentioned) grinding it for a long time primarily probably won't yeild much as opposed to diverting that energy elsewhere. Shortform and/or longform is the way to start out (in a distribution that works best for you).
I am fine with this. I am decent at posing 3d characters but not good at drawing so this could help.
Based. Using the tools to assist your goals. Being unafraid to use references. Very good.
What is going on with all these companies going with AI recently? It is like pandemic all over again
Stop overworking their creators and introduce a healthier work schedule: ❌️
Introduce AI to combat their unhealthy work schedule: ✅️
I mean, if its using art from consenting artists and the ai is just to trance or something I kinda understand
This idea sounds really cool and accessible on paper but it's hard to trust if there's no strong attached to this. We'll have to wait and see
cutting corners always have risks
usually in “quantity over quality”
hope at least the artists have a voice to say in this AI tool matter
If their top 100 creators earned $1M annually, that’s only $10k per creator per year. Some of these people have teams and harsh deadlines, as if it’s a full time job. That is not enough money.
I wonder what they use to train their AI, couldn't posible be all their creators webcomics right 👀
Shaper isn't that bad imo , if I'm not mistaken it's already used in many ptoductions just a little bit more manually
I thought about deleting my webtoons account when I heard how they were underpaying their creators among other things, this is the final straw, or it would be if the small creators I'm following uploaded their stuff elsewhere