1 Pair of Condensers for Drums - Do you use them on Stereo Overheads or Room?
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- Опубликовано: 2 мар 2020
- What do you do when you have three mics? Do you record mono overheads, or opt for mono room mics. Which is better for a drum sound? Can drums sound ok with a mono overhead? Do you even need two mics for a drum room sound?
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I feel like that snare really came to life with the stereo room + mono OH.
Stereo room is giving me Steve Albini vibes.
Yeah. I was thinking the same thing! - chaz
Albini all about that room sound! He uses tons of close mics (one on both sides of everything) and have heard four overheads/(or rather full kit type mics) sometimes but seems to start with the room sound to embellish with them not taking over.
Is like that with every instrument really!
I mean Kurt did talk about how they taped mics all over the place for recording In Utero
I've been using an OH pair and a mono room in Omni as my reverb. Been pleased with the results rather than using artificial reverb.
Kinda tricky desicion, on the other hand you have an amazing big snare sound, and on the other you have clear ear candy like wide articulation. I'm thinking the thicker the guitars, the more the snare needs length.
Appreciate, Bro! You always "punching my head" with some superb creative ideas! 👏😁
Great vid as always! I like your point about room purpose in the mix. I see more and more how other instruments can give the illusion of roomy drums. My set up is skewed mono overhead, bd, snx2 and toms. Funny how the mix seems more punchy now than when i had no clue, and swore to the wide panned stereo overheads. Thanks for sharing and caring, Ryan! 😊🎹🎻
Awesome video. I loved the stereo room a lot more. Completely agree that whatever you had going on in that setup had a killer, almost ambient sound. Kinda zeplin-y to my ears.
Stereo OH for sure. I don't care how they sound when solo'ed since there will be other instruments and vocals on the mix. The last thing I want are mono centered toms and cymbals cluttering the center of my mix, competing with my vocals, bass and kick.
I do Mono Overhead and Mono Room and pan everything in the middle including the close mikes. My Drums are completely Mono and Punchy. Then record Piano in Stereo and pan Mono Guitars to the sides etc. That works well for me. It seems to work for the rock duo "The Black Keys" and "Tame Impala" just to name a few, oh and also the greatest band ever, "The Beatles". Personally I think Mono Drums sound more punchy. But that's just my opinion. I think it just boils down to personal taste.
Do i concur? Yes.
@TacoTacoTacoTaco I have the Drums completely Mono and pan Instruments LR for the stereo effect. That is what I meant when I said sides. Nothing to do with Raw sound. Not everything needs to be stereo so I've made the choice to always do Mono Drums.
@TacoTacoTacoTaco technically LR would be in the sides still of MS processing. But not MS miccing.
What a fantastic video!
JZ V11 pair stereo overheads + mono room sounded real nice!
Would you be offended if I told you I enjoy learning the beats you play in these videos just as much as the info you present? This video's beats were a blast to learn. 🤘
That’s great! I’m honored man!
nice fun playing in the sandpit stuff again. great channel. my take: stereo room is kind of pulling my brain in half cos of the phase cancellation. i like the mono room + stereo overheads cos it kind of fills the sound out a bit - but ya hearing everything twice.
loved the stereo room. Zep vibes! thanks!
I have a limited mic selection and input capability so this info could be quite useful for future applications. Thank you.
I realize this episode is 2 years old, but I just have to weigh in here. I liked the Mono Overhead version (Two Rooms). Thanks Ryan.
I like the stereo overheads mono room, I normally use 9 mics on the drums, stereo overhead, kick attack and then resonant head, snare, 3 Tom's and the room is full in the face of the kit, I tend to get nice strong kick and snare, which the room can help with in the quality of depth, the resonant is only used if needed in the mix, at most underlying the rest of the sound, as is the room, normally go by ear on those two to bring certain qualities to the drums once the rest of the track has been recorded. Love your work dude.
So helpful! Thank you. I thought I'd like the stereo room better, but I preferred the mono room. It has just enough room sound to my ears. Great sounding drums too 😀👍
Man, either room mic config sounded awesome!
I like the stereo overheads here but that doesn’t mean I’d like it for every situation. Both set-ups have merit.
In your examples I love the mono overhead sound but I think both set ups work really well depending on the drum sound you're going for. I'm a huge sparklehorse fan and often reference tracks like Don't Take My Sunshine Away which has an almost ridiculously open and stereo drum sound and having a mono room mic is nice as I can crunch it up as you mentioned in your analysis
Recently recorded with 3 overhead mics: two SDM the "sides" (panned L/R) and a LDM centered above (panned to center), somewhere between the snare and the front skin of the kick if I remembered right. All capsules same distance from the snare. Sounded great, focused but with width.
Really nice video! Would have loved to hear one OH with one Room Mic!
Very useful
This is a great discussion. I prefer stereo OH mics to get the width of the drums without the distance and room stereo room mics would add. I'll often run a mono room mic and use a mono to stereo reverb plugin to help give the impression of width.
Really tough call! Both examples sound really good. I think I lean more towards the stereo room with mono overhead: as you say, you can pan the toms to give you the stereo-ness of the drums, and even close mic the hi-hat and ride if you wanted to (I'm also a sucker for great room sounds). You also wouldn't have to worry about the phase relationships with a mono overhead like you would with a stereo pair, which would arguably give you a more focused kit sound that you can then supplement with the delayed sound of the room mics.
Excellent video Ryan, very well done comparison.
Personally I would go with the stereo overhead as it sounds more realistic to me but in a studio situation I would probably add a ribbon mic - or something else with figure 8 polar pattern, to make a mid/side room, and then adjust the side to taste for a little extra stereo effect if it needs, depending on the style.
Max Dangerfield I’ve never thought of doing a mid-side setup for the room, definitely gonna be trying this soon!
@@jonathankessler4684 I use it all the time. It's an easy way to enhance the stereo field while still retaining a focused sound, plus there's practically no issues with phase
I liked the mono overhead/stereo room best. Also, I have a pair of Amythysts and they are killer overhead mics for drums!
This is awesome. I've always been baffled with how to place room mics though..
When using a stereo pair, do you just try to keep them equidistant from the snare, and do you point them both at it, or does this introduce any phase problems? And do you factor in the distance of the overheads from the kit vs the distance of the room mics?
Very interesting. I do prefer the stereo OH and mono room, but in case of certain styles, I would chose for stereo room and mono OH
I like mono OH - ST room more :) I think this option also leaves more space for other instruments in the Hard L / Hard R stereo field.
Depends on the music. I love the recordeman technique and G. Jones 😎
Cool vid!. That's why I bought a pair of 414's and fathead's!! =] Jk. I actually mainly used sthe 4141's spaced pair normal setting on drums. Unless I wanna set up a blumlein. But now I just leave the fatheads on my guitar cabs most of the time.. I got the triad orbit quick attachments though!
Room sound is ace! How is the Vintage on vocals? can't wait to see the review on these!
Well...
This was very eye opening!
To me the mono overhead with stereo room was what I liked the best.
And that set up solves some miking issues I have to deal with which is wanting to minimize the close miking of cymbals and trying to get some room into the mix without it losing good imaging.
How far apart were the mic from each other as well as the kit?
Actually, I have been thinking lately how I should record the drum tracks for my band so this was a good timing. I have limited funds right now, so I guess mono overhead and close mic'd toms panned are the way to go. Also there's no room (no pun intended) for room mics in my budget so I add reverb (IR) afterwards.
Your dreads look great in this video.
They both sound great! Depends on the tune. For my preference I like the mono overhead and stereo room, but it's really all about context!
I've mostly recorded extreme metal, so in that case I'd go for the stereo overheads. I love the sound of the big, fat stereo room mics, but like you were saying, there's just not enough room in the mix to actually use them.
I like the stereo room. However I'd think sometimes the context of the mix matters. If guitars are lots of wide fuzz and room LR doubling then maybe drums could be in contrast. Which reminds me of a recent song with lots of fuzz and verb layers, all LR doubled, thought to go in close and tight on drums.
The first setup sounds like a perfect triangle to me. And the stereo room mics in this particular case sound a wee bit too garage-y to my taste. Of course, it hugely depends on the style of music you record and the set of mics that are available to you, but in this case two OH + mono room mic seem to be perfectly working together. Because you still get the stereo wideness, and playing with the third mic fader could give you the control of the dry/wet ratio.
I agree it’s pretty close either way, but I personally would probably use the stereo overheads and the mono room, just so I can have that spread with the panning on the drums.
Hi Ryan, Would you ever do the Mid/Side trick with the mono room mic?
I like the stereo overhead and mono room
Unfortunately my limiting factor is the secondhand mic stands I have from my local church... Can't afford fancy ones.
Thank you very interesting ! Wht about using both, Stéréo Rooms AND OH ?
Yeah, that's mostly what I do. It was just to make a point that you actually can pull off mono over and it still sounds ok.
Overheads ALWAYS. I was stereo miking drums back in 1968. And the overheads - best placed just above the drummer's head (the way the drummer hears his kit) must be oriented with capsule / diaphragms at 90 degrees to eachother for maximum stereo spread with minimum phase cancellation. I laugh every time I see a pair of overheads placed 10 feet above the kit, both pointing straight down and only inches apart.
Just curious, would this be essentially the XY method but with the pair of microphones above the drummer's head?
The microphone is good, but if you pair with our sound card K10 10TH , BD40, which can beautify your voice in youtube and singing.
Did u face the mono room mic away from the drumkit and invert the phase? or toward?
Why not try the stereo pairs in a coincident configuration as well (xy/blumlein)? Everyone has their preference but I'm personally not a huge fan of the spaced pair as the integrity of the stereo image captured is frequency dependent and prone to comb filtering. You can hear this in the OH comparison portion of the video (listen to the kick).
Something about the stereo room mics... for overall drum ambience, I'd rather smash those and dial the dry sound back in than use a reverb. Definitely situational though, but for my drumming I'd rather have that :)
Idk guys why you prefer mono oh and stereo room
Stereo oh sounds amazing
Now I want jz v11
As the OH contributes to my main drum sound (if the kit's balanced and the drummer's a talented player...) I'll go for OH with a bit of processing and eq... Otherwise 'ill go for room ( if the room's acoustically acceptable...Forget it in a drum Booth) I like crappy rooms for garage or really rocky tracks, but for jazz stuff for example, totally unusuable... Rooms I can always re-mike via speakers like in the old days...
How about if you only have 2. Stereo room or stereo OH
Honestly, the V11s just didn't hit for me. The clarity of that snare attack being captured by the Amethyst is insanely pleasing in both OH and Room setups. That said, I really liked the Amethyst as mono room and V11s as stereo OH setup that you showed first. To me, it had the best, most true sound. The M OH/ST Room option sounded a bit "amateur" to my ears, and may need more work in the full drum mix.
Dude I respect you immensely. Along with Shane in Australia and SOS there is nobody I trust more. Having said that and it's almost cliche now but LESS IS MORE. If one can't get a KILLER drum sound with a Coles 4038 Ribbon overhead and an AT AE2500 on the inside of a kick using a Kelly Shue than one ( or more) of a few things is going on. # 1) The engineer has no idea what they're doing. # 2) The room sucks. # 3) The drums are not tunrd properly or to the room . # 4) The drummer sucks.
The more mic's one puts on a kit the greater the likelihood of phase issues ( why the AT AE2500 is the best kick mic ever made) .The more time is required for pre recording set up ( additional cost to a client) and refer back to # 1. ITS A FRIGGIN DRUM KIT even Caveman hitting two rocks together could keep time. ALL this " Golden Ears" crap is just that CRAP. WARHOL SAID " I'm afraid the more you look at something the more it loses its meaning. The FASTER you can create your art without over thinking it the sooner you'll get to a place nobody's ever been" . If it takes more than a week to track and mix an albulm the moment is lost, start over. Keep it to 8 or 4 tracks anymore than that and you're not making a Rock, Alt Country, Singer Songwriter, Country, Jazz album , I don't know what you're making I guess Taylor Swift or Fleetwood Mac or some such shite. What was the Death of Rock N Roll ? A) Blowhard Bloated engineers and Pro Tools. Nobody puts their ear up to snare drum when listening to any genre of music. KEEP IT MINIMAL
Stereo room, Mono Overhead
Stereo Rooms ALL DAY
Came late to the party on this video. I would go stereo OH and I would use BX Stereomaker on the room (it works wonders on mono rooms). It's cheating I know (haha).
Mono Overheads and Mono Room. :)
The stereo OHs sounded like they need spot mics. The mono OH sounded much more ready to go.
i think the kick drum is a dick but when its wrong its not abrasive. the snare isnt as much of a dick, but when its wrong its super hard to listen to. the center channel is magic. its not really there. i have had great success in this situation where i had a karaoke track which was mono & i wanted it stereo. the original song was stereo but had vocals. i turned mono karaoke track into stereo by pinching some of the super highs (15k+) from the original song and overlaying them in sync, with attenuation of those highs out of the mono karaoke track. had a super wide Q that bled down a decent way but you can get a lot of bang for your buck with just the stereo information from highs
For me, it depends on the room
Dying to hear two Amethyst now.
Mono room, stereo OH for me.
2:14 2:27
Horses for courses. Depends on what you want to acheive.
One overhead, one kick and one room. Stereo drums are totally overrated imho.
Edit: That is if you literally only have three mics.
ewwwwwwwwWWww i had to wash my hands after reading that. yuck
I will agree up to a point. We naturally hear in stereo. That 70's thing of panning the toms full left & right was silly. In the studio, I do pan the overheads full left / right, but I keep the toms proportionally closed in. I solo the overheads, note the VU indications of each tom, then pan each tom in solo to those same indications. When we hear drums in a band, we are standing or sitting several feet away and the actual stereo 'picture' our ears perceive is only a few degrees wide. But the acoustic environment - be it a small room or concert hall - is still full left & right to our ears.
@@chuckkirkpatrick6712 Thanks for the input. I perceive the entire kit as one instrument so I prefer as few mics as possible on the kit, but that's a personal preference more than anything else. There's actually very few "bad" sounds out there imho. Just different ideas about what's a "good" sound and how to get it.
@@andreasatlars4281 yeah i spent the last day or so thinking about your notion of having mono drums to help make a more vivid stereo mix by keeping the instruments on the sides & far apart. it has some merit. i'm still gonna be like EeeeeeeeeEeewww though and hand-sanitizer after i try it out in my daw. but i can see it having application in some mixes aye.
@@pepe6666 I usually put mono drums dead center in the mix. Unless I'm going for that 60's "weird" stereo image, which I think is really cool, but it's obviously not for everyone.
Man, either room mic config sounded awesome!
Man, either room mic config sounded awesome!