For commercial playing/lead, I use a vintage custom shallow double cup with a 34 throat, as measured by Terry Warburton. The extra-wide double cup throat entrance and the complete lack of much of any cylindrical-section to the 34 throat make it play more open than the very small 34 throat size would otherwise seem. It helps me play with some authority into the double-high AND Triple-high register, but only if I use a very focused and sensitive embouchure with a very small and fast air-stream. I pair this tight mouthpiece with an open-playing lightly-braced and lightweight .462 Nova LA trumpet. This gives me a bright-cut at even a relaxed MF dynamic, without gassing my face. I can easily still top any sort of band with this mouthpiece, it is not true that large throats give you a louder sound, because they require more air and energy from your body to play AT EVERY DYNAMIC, in comparison to smaller throats. It is easier to play louder with more endurance on a smaller throat. Cat Anderson played on a .500-ish super shallow cup with a 30 throat, and easily screamed amd shouted over the entire Ellington band from the 1940’s-1960’s, and there wasn’t a “weak” player in Ellington’s band. Nobody could claim he wasn’t loud because he didn’t use a symphonic 24 throat… lol.
Jon, I really appreciate your videos and keep coming back to them for reference for both me and my students! I hope you will continue to make these informative videos! Thank you! 🎺🎵🎶👍
Forget the guys name but there was a guy few years back(just thinking it may be 10 years now.. Yikes!) that a lot of higher end players used to have their throats modified by and he did my Schilke 202d2d to a 22 throat… (I have a stock one too) and it playes wonderfully. He would blend the throat to the cup and backbore before replating it and makes for a truly superior job. my Kanstul B1-1 copy is pretty dang fun too.
Josh Landress said Chris Botti uses a Bach 3 (no letter) with a 13 throat and a #3 back bore. Chris obviously is in his element with everything opened up. I believe this mouthpiece has more impact on his dark, silky sound than his Martin extra large bore trumpet.
When he plays above high C, he switches to a NY Bach 3C with a 28 throat and standard backbore. When your home-base is a 3 and a 13 throat with a big backbore, a 3C with a 28 throat and standard backbore is your scream piece!
Nice, clear explanation. What do think about the Curry BC series mouthpieces? They come with 24 bore and #2 Schmidt backbore stock, which seem like popular mods orchestral players make to Bachs, but I am not aware of how many orchestral players have tried them.
Glad you found this educational and digestible! It's so funny, when you commented this I was working on my newest release - 4 orchestral mouthpieces under $100! In that video, the first piece I recommend is the Curry BC series because of exactly the reasons you mention! The also come in a wide variety of rim sizes so anybody can "try on" an orchestral piece. Here's the link if you want to check out the others I recommend under $100 - ruclips.net/video/4f0VMi6GtiU/видео.html
Would also like to get your thoughts on Curry TF (flugel for trumpet) which seems to have a size 24 or 25 throat size and deep deep V. For some reason, this is now my favorite mouthpiece on BB trumpet. Part of the reason is the rim shape and smoothness. I am relative beginner who prefers Bach 5B mouthpiece size normally over other sizes: e.g., 1.25C, 3C, and 7C. The TF is probably not suitable for orchestral playing because it seems to attenuate the upper registers.
Wonder what would happen if the throat size of the cup doesn’t match the throat size of the backbore. I have a breslmair BV3 cup the drill size is 3.66 and the “25” backbore also from breslmair which the drill size is 3.8. The guys from breslmair said it’s totally fine mix and match different throat size but I kinda disagree, what’s your opinion on it ?
Hi Michael! I play a Parke 640-280-24 with an orchestral backbore. In terms of dimensions it’s not terribly different from the mouthpiece you’re describing - the 640 is like a 1.5C diameter, the 280 cup is about a 1C depth, 24 throat, and the orchestral backbore is not too different from the Bach 24. Glad you found something that is going in the right direction for you!
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For commercial playing/lead, I use a vintage custom shallow double cup with a 34 throat, as measured by Terry Warburton. The extra-wide double cup throat entrance and the complete lack of much of any cylindrical-section to the 34 throat make it play more open than the very small 34 throat size would otherwise seem. It helps me play with some authority into the double-high AND Triple-high register, but only if I use a very focused and sensitive embouchure with a very small and fast air-stream.
I pair this tight mouthpiece with an open-playing lightly-braced and lightweight .462 Nova LA trumpet.
This gives me a bright-cut at even a relaxed MF dynamic, without gassing my face.
I can easily still top any sort of band with this mouthpiece, it is not true that large throats give you a louder sound, because they require more air and energy from your body to play AT EVERY DYNAMIC, in comparison to smaller throats.
It is easier to play louder with more endurance on a smaller throat.
Cat Anderson played on a .500-ish super shallow cup with a 30 throat, and easily screamed amd shouted over the entire Ellington band from the 1940’s-1960’s, and there wasn’t a “weak” player in Ellington’s band. Nobody could claim he wasn’t loud because he didn’t use a symphonic 24 throat… lol.
Jon, I really appreciate your videos and keep coming back to them for reference for both me and my students! I hope you will continue to make these informative videos! Thank you! 🎺🎵🎶👍
Thanks! This was very informative.
Glad you found it helpful, Spencer!
Forget the guys name but there was a guy few years back(just thinking it may be 10 years now.. Yikes!) that a lot of higher end players used to have their throats modified by and he did my Schilke 202d2d to a 22 throat… (I have a stock one too) and it playes wonderfully. He would blend the throat to the cup and backbore before replating it and makes for a truly superior job.
my Kanstul B1-1 copy is pretty dang fun too.
Great work Jon!
Thanks, Dave! Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks, this is very helpful
Glad to hear that! I always wanted to understand this stuff better when I was starting to experiment with mouthpieces. 🤓
Can you do a video on how to shop for mouthpiece, im looking for a new one to try but idk the best places to go to or where to even start looking
Great vid btw
Josh Landress said Chris Botti uses a Bach 3 (no letter) with a 13 throat and a #3 back bore. Chris obviously is in his element with everything opened up. I believe this mouthpiece has more impact on his dark, silky sound than his Martin extra large bore trumpet.
Wow, that is quite a specimen of a mouthpiece. Would love to see a scan of it someday for study! 🤓
When he plays above high C, he switches to a NY Bach 3C with a 28 throat and standard backbore. When your home-base is a 3 and a 13 throat with a big backbore, a 3C with a 28 throat and standard backbore is your scream piece!
Great work!!!
Thanks - glad you enjoyed it, Paulo!
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Nice, clear explanation. What do think about the Curry BC series mouthpieces? They come with 24 bore and #2 Schmidt backbore stock, which seem like popular mods orchestral players make to Bachs, but I am not aware of how many orchestral players have tried them.
Glad you found this educational and digestible! It's so funny, when you commented this I was working on my newest release - 4 orchestral mouthpieces under $100! In that video, the first piece I recommend is the Curry BC series because of exactly the reasons you mention! The also come in a wide variety of rim sizes so anybody can "try on" an orchestral piece. Here's the link if you want to check out the others I recommend under $100 - ruclips.net/video/4f0VMi6GtiU/видео.html
@@JonTalksTrumpet Yeah I saw the new video. I guess you didn't do it just for me. That would be some crazy fast production time. 😆
Would also like to get your thoughts on Curry TF (flugel for trumpet) which seems to have a size 24 or 25 throat size and deep deep V. For some reason, this is now my favorite mouthpiece on BB trumpet. Part of the reason is the rim shape and smoothness. I am relative beginner who prefers Bach 5B mouthpiece size normally over other sizes: e.g., 1.25C, 3C, and 7C. The TF is probably not suitable for orchestral playing because it seems to attenuate the upper registers.
Wonder what would happen if the throat size of the cup doesn’t match the throat size of the backbore. I have a breslmair BV3 cup the drill size is 3.66 and the “25” backbore also from breslmair which the drill size is 3.8. The guys from breslmair said it’s totally fine mix and match different throat size but I kinda disagree, what’s your opinion on it ?
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I found a 1.5C symphonic 24 throat and 24 backbore gave me a better sound and better feel than a standard 1.5C. What is your setup?
Hi Michael! I play a Parke 640-280-24 with an orchestral backbore. In terms of dimensions it’s not terribly different from the mouthpiece you’re describing - the 640 is like a 1.5C diameter, the 280 cup is about a 1C depth, 24 throat, and the orchestral backbore is not too different from the Bach 24. Glad you found something that is going in the right direction for you!
@@JonTalksTrumpet thanks Jon!
Wait so as the numbers get bigger the throat gets smaller and as the numbers get smaller it gets bigger
Correct! Stock is 27, something like 30 would be extremely small, and a 15 is huge for trumpet but fairly typical for the French horn.
IMO, for trumpet, 27 or 28 is average, 25 or 26 is large, 24 or larger is extra large, 29 or 30 is small, 31 or smaller is extra small.
The throat thing is the unwritten difference between a player that is a star and a player that is a hiree.
Does the Bach symphonic series work on the bb trumpet?
Sure! I personally prefer it on C trumpet but there are many players who use mouthpieces like that on both Bb and C trumpet.
Like Phil smith
I mean, maybe? 🤣 Have you asked him what kind of mouthpiece he plays on Bb trumpet these days?
Kahan se ho bhaiya
To be technical, the chart shows throat size in inches - not thousands of inch. To be technical.
Oh lol whoops!
@@JonTalksTrumpet It's what happens when an engineer plays trumpet. Probably shouldn't be allowed.