Okay, just to save you from disaster: a safety margin of 2 is completely insufficient for glass. Make that at least 5 -10. The problem is not the bulk strength of the material, it's about tensile stress at the edges of the glass. Any small crack (for example from diamond tooling) can quickly grow under these conditions, leading to catastrophic failure, destruction of your chamber and vacuum system. Not to mention serious personal hazards. Buy a much thicker disk or better, decrease the window size. Or even better : both. With this 20mm window you will never feel / be safe, even if it does not crack immediately!
20mm sounds about right for window that size, the chamber i use has several 200mm windows and those are only 10mm thick 300mm would only be bit more than double the force.
A factor of 5-10 is probably still insufficient, considering the glass was purchased from Alibaba. Saving money should be low priority when it comes to safety or risk of damage to a far more expensive vacuum pump.
If the manual suggests 22 clamps for the pump but you only added 12, wouldn't it be easy to drill 12 more holes in between the existing ones to allow for 24 clamps? That's even better than 22
I don't have a drill press in my workshop. And doing it by hand would have resulted in crooked holes. Additionally I spoke with some people with experience and they said 12 clamps are sufficient. But you are right, the best solution would have been to add more holes.
@@AdvancedTinkering You don't need a drill press to drill straight holes. In fact, it doesn't guarantee straightness. You need to make a guide block with an appropriate sized bushing.
1:34 consider using a maroon or other fine scotchbrite and make linear motion along the path of the seal, making a "race track" finish. Otherwise the rotary device shown in the video will make perpendicular scratches along the length of the O-ring surface.
As you seem to be well versed with vacuum fittings: Is a race track finish or a polished surface better for sealing? Two friends, both engineers, argued abut that recently, and as I personally have no qualified opinion on the topic, I hereby resort to asking competent sounding strangers on the internet. Thanks in advance!
@viatorsimplex4524 idk about the op, but I work with vacuum devices every day at work, the higher quality a part is the more mirror like the polish is on the sealing surface. I've never seen a grooved sealing surface on vacuum fittings, the only place I've seen that is on cheap mass produced plastic fittings (like screw caps on bottles or cheap garden hose pieces etc.). The only professional vacuum equivalent would be metal-metal seals, like conflat or vcr, but in those cases the metal bites into a disposable metal seal washer. Perhaps they're thinking of triclamp? Those aren't vacuum fittings but they look very similar to kf fittings at a glance, they have a groove that fits a Teflon (generally) sealing washer.
@viatorsimplex4524 if brand new, an Ra 0.4 um or less is great. In this case he is reworking by hand. My comment is with respect to this particular case.
Suggestions : build a ring around the viewport and have a grove with a Oring that way it won't be local pressure on the glass. And maybe build a plate that sits in front of the big vacuum pump. That way if any thing implodes it wouldn't hit the blades
that's the way the large windows on the chambers i use are mounted . putting anything in front of the pump slows it pumping speed down even a coerce screen will knot 10-20% of your capacity off. at such low pressure your in the free molecular region so thing stop acting like normal fluids.
That was my first plan. But getting a ring that size machined was prohibitively expensive. I plan on adding a shield in front of the pump, to protect it. It's also needed if I use the chamber for sputtering. Otherwise I will coat the blades.
@@AdvancedTinkering you would be shocked by how much metal can get plated on a turbo. we ran large EP test facility that ran metal propellant the walls had several hundred micron layers thick of various metals and the turbos were fine with no shields.
Hahahaha I work in a semi fab, we very rarely ever use torque wrenches (only in torque critical locations, like acrylic windows, special bushings, etc.), most of the time we use SHCS with L wrenches (allen keys) so that everything is only ever hand tight, if we do use wrenches we just go until snug (vacuum pulls everything together anyway, and if it doesn't going tighter is not a good idea as you likely have another issue like a poor seal surface or misalignment). Edit: oh and a lot of this kind of equipment is stainless, stainless galls like a SOB so using hand tools where you can feel any resistance early and STOP is critical, I've seen a quarter inch stainless bolt seize on 2 to 3 threads to the point it snapped in half rather than budge. It's a real pain to drill out and add inserts. If you have something you can't afford to break I'd recommend splurging on the silver plating, it prevents the galling.
On the light clamp for the viewport you should add a conical shaped "lens" which stretches from the clamp to the glass that can help reduce any glare on the window itself from getting into the camera during recording
An issue I can see with this is it could dampen a good amount of the light if it's made of a dark material Though you could add aluminum tape or something on the inside as a crude reflective layer
We have a sputter machine which had a large round glass window on a round sample transfer chamber at our institute. The diameter was about 80cm and the thickness about one inch or 2.5 cm. One night - luckily with nobody around - the glass imploded, after more than 20 years of service life. There was glass splinters everywhere. I have no doubt that 20mm might be sufficient, but given the origin and transport of your glass window, there might be internal stresses etc. At least mount a thick acrylic or polycarbonat sheet in front of the window!
At my workplace we had a turbomolecular pump connected to a mass spectrometer simply explode about a week ago. If the outer Cover (which was in place for such a case) hadn't held up it would have sent shrapnel flying everywhere around the room. I don't even wanna imagine the damage to all the other sensitive equipment in the room or what would have happened to anyone that could have been in the room at the time.
@@AdvancedTinkering Yeah, that's what I meant to say by outer cover (english sometimes uh), they purposely make the housing in a way that can withstand shrapnel and it did successfully stop them in our case Sorry for being unclear there
When you used your bare finger to spin that turbo I immediately recoiled as I have cut the tip of my finger off doing the exact same thing on a different Pfieffer turbo.
You're living out my dreams with a giant vacuum chamber, hope you can do some cool experiments in it when it's ready. As for the turbo pump, you need a 'crows foot' wrench fitting so you can tighten the turbo clamps with a torque wrench without the body of the pump interfering with the torque wrench.
two things. 1. get a wheeled bench to mount under the pump so when you need to remove it in the future you don't strain your back. 2. the 3d printed brackets could be replaced with a carbon fiber safety mesh that mounts in those spots just in case it ever does shatter. that way you can still remove it easily for filming and such and the brackets have a use. as far color? I wish they were all steel color.
Haha, there is no way I could get it into my basement. And as far as I understood the professor, they plan on using it as a display item in the university.
you could have used acrylic for the viewport, that stuff's used on deep sea submarines and can withstand more pressure than glass because it can flex slightly. but at least glass doesn't scratch and outgass under vacuum. I like the alternating silver and black clamps too.
To help with the mounting of the pump and the issue you had with the wrench you can use crowfoot adapter on the torque wrench to tighten the bolts if they socket heads, just remember to turn the crow foot adapter 90* so the torque is correct based on the length of the tool... they add some length to the lever are and thus you need to be careful when using them to not over tighten fasteners. Hope this helps next time you need to get at a tricky fastener with a torque wrench.
It’s possible the 24 clamp count might have something to do with even loading of the turbine housing across a wide range of chamber pressures as well as safety in a crash scenario.
This is some incredible piece of machinery. I don't have much ideas on how to use it, but if you'll sell it for a down payment on a mortgage, I wouldn't blame you
WOW! Looking at the place where your university dumps it's junk... I could never use the word "useless"... so many beautiful "toys", so little storage space in my office.
You can get sockets that have a crescent head off to the side that you can use to tighten your pump clamps with the torque wrench. You have to adjust the torque to account for the increased tool length
Awesome video, I have made large scientific vacuum chambers and other physics kit before, Few useful tips. Phosphor bronze helicoils are great for aluminium tapped threads, these normally come with a specific tap for pre tapping the hole prior to putting the helicoil in which requires way less torque, also you can remove them easily should the worst happen. Low -5s is pretty decent considering the roughing pump is quite small and is a rotary vane oil pump, be careful with experiments that might create a cold surface in the chamber as this can cause oil to be pumped back through the pump contaminating the turbo pump and chamber. Low -6s is probably the best you will be able to achieve with standard o-ring seals and kf /iso flanges, Viton and nitrile orings become pourous to some gasses at these pressures so you would need copper gasket seal to get lower ideally (cf flanges). But seeing as that pump is such a beast perhaps you could get to the low 7s, you can get “strainers” / mesh grid o rings for the dn260 pumps, doesn’t really affect the pumping speed but will stop a stray bolt from going into the pump. Again awesome content, most university physics labs will have loads of pumps, vacuum systems and cryogenic equipment ect that are just collecting dust (I have seen this to be the case multiple times) great source of kit if you ask nicely
Thank you! Yes, I plan on adding a shield in front of the pump. A special mesh for the flange would be too expensive but I will see if I can get something made from stainless sheet metal. If I reach low -6s I am absolutely happy.
Maybe the high vacuum company is supporting you because your channel is just a big promotion for premade systems with all the hard work it takes to do it even semi diy
I should also say that with a pump that small and a chamber and high vacuum pump that large you will definitely run into molecular backflow of the oil from your foreline pump. Definitely recommend upgrading the size of the oil pump or getting your hands on a roots rotary pump. An Ebara or Kashiyama roots pump is ideal, can't recommend the Pfieffer ones as they are incredibly loud compared to their competition and far more expensive despite using older designs.
project idea : -put a LED laser cutter inside and use it to cut/engrave some materials, lack of air/oxygen should give some interesting results -perform vacuum welding of clean metal objects
I actually have plans on using a laser inside a vacuum chamber (for pulsed laser deposition). Trying laser welding would also be interesting. Thanks for the idea!
I wonder if you could put a polarised light source inside the chamber and look at the viewport through polarising film to visualise any stress concentrations?
a cool thing would exposing small objects, like an electrolytic cap, cocktail tomato, those small schokoladenschaumküsse, anyting that might be visually stimulating. but a small enough chamber so the dp is violent enough (lol). and maybe make the exhaust into the main chamber out of clear pipes, for nice Δp shots.
One can also think of it in terms of effective area. An aperture that removed every molecule that entered it would have a pumping speed of A*v/4 where A is the area and v the rms speed. 1400 L/s is an effective area of 0.019 m^2, or a circle of 15.5 cm diameter. So the pump is removing about half of the molecules that enter it, which is typical for a turbomolecular pump.
@@hammerth1421 Sure. I just think it's kind of amusing that a volumetric rating sounds incredibly impressive until you think about it a bit. Moving 1200 litres per second isn't as OTT as it sounds when it's 1200 litres of almost literally nothing 😂
i know we all hate the "as long as a football field" comaprisons, but the energy 16k joule are very close to a .50 BMG round. and that is a useful comparison in/for my mind.
Ich find's so genial dass es Menschen wie dich und Platformen wie diese hier gibt die es Leuten mir erlaubt solchen Content zu genießen! bzgl des X1C ich hab mir kürzlich den gleichen Drucker gekauft, aus den gleichen Gründen wie du. Schau dass du nie langsamer als 150mm/s druckst wenn das Ergebnis hübsch sein soll, und druck die bitte unbedingt das Werkzeug aus mit dem man den Extruder zerlegen kann (ist so eine Befestigung auf die man den Extruder legt um eines seiner Zahnräder herauszuhämmern, anders bekommt man das Teil leider im Ernstfall echt nicht zerlegt)
Es freut mich sehr, dass dir die Videos/Projekte gefallen! Vielen Dank fürs ansehen! Und danke für den Tipp mit dem Werkzeug für den Extruder. Werde ich bei Gelegenheit drucken.
Awesome turbopump!!!! From my point of view, using a solid glass for such a large window is not a good idea, as scratches on its surphase can reduce its strength a lot (up to 10 times!). In my project i use a 300 mm window made of 30 mm triplex (3*10 mm). From my point of view, triplex is more robust and suitable for such applications, as forces are more smoothly distributed)
You are going to have fun! We use large machines at my work that run cryopumps. We routinely have 2.0x10-7 torr. The chambers are about 60" long x 24" across. Im sure you already know, but NEVER use anything made of brass in your system. It is a porous material and makes high vacuum practically impossible.
- outside-in lighting is a great idea, maybe put some more leds around the window in the empty spots. - consider putting a polycarbonate sheet outside in front of the glass. possibly removable, so you can move it aside if you want to film. Does the BigPump need to be unobstructed inside the chamber? can you put something in front of it inside the chamber to protect it from becoming a viral video? As for what to do with the chamber? Maybe start a business vapor deposition coating whole pets? anything up to a dog would fit...
when it came time to mount the pump i first heard "14 kilogram" and i wondered how that was a challenge then i listened again and was like AAAAAAHHHH yeah that makes more sense
Please make sure the vacuum chamber is also secured properly. You wouldn't be the first one that secured your TMP to the chamber thinking that the weight of the chamber would stop it. Then have a TMP failure and see the chamber go flying through the room. Regarding getting to a lowest possible vacuüm, I don't know what the outgassing properties of super glue are, but I wouldn't suspect them to be that favourable. Further, the surface finish looks relatively rough, you could look into electro polishing it. This minimizes the surface area thus improving your vacuüm. I would love to see some experiments with RGA's. You can get some interesting data out of them
2:40 The 16000 Nm is the torque which the pump is expected to produce in a crash. Although the torque units and the energy units coincide, the torque is not the energy. To spin the pump up requires 750 Watts for 480 seconds. This corresponds to the energy of 360000 Joules (equivalent to 86 grams of TNT). Of course, some of this goes into friction and other losses, so the energy stored in the rotor is somewhat less than that. But this number is in the right ballpark, and would roughly correspond to a 6 kg 300 mm diameter disk rotating at the nominal for this pump rpm.
Ooo. I must subscribe to this! Oh. I already am. Good work past me. The clamps on the viewport look fine. Of course, as soon as you pull a slight vacuum, you don't need any of them ;-)
With very careful bakeout and long pumpdown on an extra clean interior, I expect your ultimate pressure will be ~2-3e-7mbar as long as the roughing pump can support the foreline at >4e-2mbar. I tried zooming at 4k but was not able to make out the model number of it.
@AdvancedTinkering considering that the Duo supports a fore pressure of >1e-2mbar and the turbos final pressure is >1e-7mbar you should be able to quite easily achieve -6mbar range. I work with vacuum coating plants so watching your videos is a great pleasure ❤
In an electro trash dumpster at my university I have found a perfectly fine working GC-FID machine from Agilent or a small turbo [pump with controller xD It is a gold mine sometimes.
i'd be keen to see plasma in the chamber nothing comes to mind more than the smarter everyday and impreza plasma sphere or ion propulsion. perhaps Nile could offer some interesting chemicals that behave safely under such conditions or backyard scientist for some cool lazers
Why not make the 3D printed clamps wide enough so they bridge the whole space between the aluminium clamps? That would then add some (impact) protection to the window the whole way around, since they don’t really work as clamps properly anyway I guess (much less stiff and strong than the aluminium ones, so those take the load).
To reach higher vacuum, ususally it helps to run the rough pump overnight. Water and other volatiles sticks to the walls. Baking helps, but it is a real hassle. Flushing with argon helps too. But that is a bit expensive method. Ps. That is not the biggest turbomolecular pump I have seen. We have one as big as me when sitting down at work. :D
Yeah, I have no idea how I would heat a chamber that size. So running the pump for a long time seems to be the only option. Haha, yes, there are far bigger ones :D
Don't run any Carbon Fiber or other abrasives through the AMS. Bambu recommends using an external spool due to the high wear on the internal Bowden tubes.
Will you not have out-gassing problems using Aluminium, and we always use gasket cord to make o-rings, as long as you cut it square and use fine emery paper to smooth it you won't have any problems
And at some point, it doesn’t even push anymore. You have to wait for the molecule to bounce around until it hits the opening of the pump. But that wouldn’t sound as catchy on a thumbnail ;)
1. The magnets in the pump suck, or the magnetic fields they create do. 2. The electric fields made by voltage in the wires probably suck on electrons and and probably charged ions here and there too. 3. The protons in the atoms that it's made from suck on electrons keeping them in clouds. 4. Quarks in it are having a suck-fest, all sucking each other. 5. All parts with mass suck each other due to gravity. 6. Lastly the expansion of the universe slowly sucks everything (actually maybe not, but possibly). It sucks more than you think!
3:52 That stud looks like a nightmare. I run a the leak test lab for an aluminum ultra-high vacuum chamber manufacturer and we use helical inserts (helicoils). I've installed literally tens of thousands of them without nearly as much work. They can be tricky with out the install tool but a bolt works decently. I was curious about your gasket lays; did you leave them with that circular lay? or did you place a parallel scratch pattern and just not film it?
Yeah, I should have used helicoils. Now I know for the next time I'm using thread inserts. The "scratches" were so fine, I didn't think it would be necessary to sand it parallel to the o-ring. But I will probably still do it in the future.
Silver PLA Silk from Bambu labs, it kinda looks like metal, and replace the black window adapters. Is there any reason why you wanted to use glass and not 1" thick polycarbonate?
Thanks for the tip! I thought about using a polycarbonate window. But polymers outgass under vacuum and with a surface area that large, it would be quite significant.
@@AdvancedTinkering waiting for a video on the same, if you plan on making it that is. I had tried, but cost was an issue + not that familiar with hydraulics yet
I'm still looking for a way to rent a really good high speed camera. I want to film dropping a nut into one of the pumps at full speed. That video might be something for you ;)
Would putting a bit of K or NaK in the chamber give you a "getter" to bring the pressure down further? What other things are you planning to try (you mentioned baking for example)?
...are you not worried about cyanoacrylate outgassing? Btw. The clamps on the glass are complete overkill. They only need to be there to ensure that glass doesnt fall off, outside airpressure will hold it fine with no clamps when operating.
It's just a little bit. This splicing method is common and can be made to work well enough for most but not all purposes. The threat of a leak is the more important problem of this method. O-rings are a little bit permeable to air no matter what you do.
Okay, just to save you from disaster: a safety margin of 2 is completely insufficient for glass. Make that at least 5 -10. The problem is not the bulk strength of the material, it's about tensile stress at the edges of the glass. Any small crack (for example from diamond tooling) can quickly grow under these conditions, leading to catastrophic failure, destruction of your chamber and vacuum system. Not to mention serious personal hazards. Buy a much thicker disk or better, decrease the window size. Or even better : both. With this 20mm window you will never feel / be safe, even if it does not crack immediately!
But think of the RUclips content!
20mm sounds about right for window that size, the chamber i use has several 200mm windows and those are only 10mm thick 300mm would only be bit more than double the force.
A factor of 5-10 is probably still insufficient, considering the glass was purchased from Alibaba. Saving money should be low priority when it comes to safety or risk of damage to a far more expensive vacuum pump.
@@bobweiram6321 You are clueless. Just because its probably made in China doesnt mean its poor quality.
what about poly carb?
If the manual suggests 22 clamps for the pump but you only added 12, wouldn't it be easy to drill 12 more holes in between the existing ones to allow for 24 clamps? That's even better than 22
I don't have a drill press in my workshop. And doing it by hand would have resulted in crooked holes. Additionally I spoke with some people with experience and they said 12 clamps are sufficient.
But you are right, the best solution would have been to add more holes.
@@AdvancedTinkering You don't need a drill press to drill straight holes. In fact, it doesn't guarantee straightness. You need to make a guide block with an appropriate sized bushing.
1:34 consider using a maroon or other fine scotchbrite and make linear motion along the path of the seal, making a "race track" finish. Otherwise the rotary device shown in the video will make perpendicular scratches along the length of the O-ring surface.
As you seem to be well versed with vacuum fittings: Is a race track finish or a polished surface better for sealing? Two friends, both engineers, argued abut that recently, and as I personally have no qualified opinion on the topic, I hereby resort to asking competent sounding strangers on the internet. Thanks in advance!
@viatorsimplex4524 idk about the op, but I work with vacuum devices every day at work, the higher quality a part is the more mirror like the polish is on the sealing surface. I've never seen a grooved sealing surface on vacuum fittings, the only place I've seen that is on cheap mass produced plastic fittings (like screw caps on bottles or cheap garden hose pieces etc.). The only professional vacuum equivalent would be metal-metal seals, like conflat or vcr, but in those cases the metal bites into a disposable metal seal washer. Perhaps they're thinking of triclamp? Those aren't vacuum fittings but they look very similar to kf fittings at a glance, they have a groove that fits a Teflon (generally) sealing washer.
@viatorsimplex4524 if brand new, an Ra 0.4 um or less is great. In this case he is reworking by hand. My comment is with respect to this particular case.
Congratulations on becoming a professional mechanic. We are all very proud of you.🎉🎉🎉
Suggestions : build a ring around the viewport and have a grove with a Oring that way it won't be local pressure on the glass. And maybe build a plate that sits in front of the big vacuum pump. That way if any thing implodes it wouldn't hit the blades
that's the way the large windows on the chambers i use are mounted . putting anything in front of the pump slows it pumping speed down even a coerce screen will knot 10-20% of your capacity off. at such low pressure your in the free molecular region so thing stop acting like normal fluids.
That was my first plan. But getting a ring that size machined was prohibitively expensive.
I plan on adding a shield in front of the pump, to protect it. It's also needed if I use the chamber for sputtering. Otherwise I will coat the blades.
@@AdvancedTinkering you would be shocked by how much metal can get plated on a turbo. we ran large EP test facility that ran metal propellant the walls had several hundred micron layers thick of various metals and the turbos were fine with no shields.
Hahahaha I work in a semi fab, we very rarely ever use torque wrenches (only in torque critical locations, like acrylic windows, special bushings, etc.), most of the time we use SHCS with L wrenches (allen keys) so that everything is only ever hand tight, if we do use wrenches we just go until snug (vacuum pulls everything together anyway, and if it doesn't going tighter is not a good idea as you likely have another issue like a poor seal surface or misalignment).
Edit: oh and a lot of this kind of equipment is stainless, stainless galls like a SOB so using hand tools where you can feel any resistance early and STOP is critical, I've seen a quarter inch stainless bolt seize on 2 to 3 threads to the point it snapped in half rather than budge. It's a real pain to drill out and add inserts. If you have something you can't afford to break I'd recommend splurging on the silver plating, it prevents the galling.
0:16 haha e-waste dumpster driving, my source of hardware gems as well. No idea why people throw away perfectly working computers :D
I would have cut up the large chamber for the aluminum! Nice big machinable slabs that cost a fortune from metal suppliers.
As an IT guy, I can partially answer that : I cannot take all of them home. Not enough space
On the light clamp for the viewport you should add a conical shaped "lens" which stretches from the clamp to the glass that can help reduce any glare on the window itself from getting into the camera during recording
An issue I can see with this is it could dampen a good amount of the light if it's made of a dark material
Though you could add aluminum tape or something on the inside as a crude reflective layer
We have a sputter machine which had a large round glass window on a round sample transfer chamber at our institute. The diameter was about 80cm and the thickness about one inch or 2.5 cm. One night - luckily with nobody around - the glass imploded, after more than 20 years of service life. There was glass splinters everywhere.
I have no doubt that 20mm might be sufficient, but given the origin and transport of your glass window, there might be internal stresses etc.
At least mount a thick acrylic or polycarbonat sheet in front of the window!
That is frightening. I'm probably adding a polycarbonate sheet in front of the window. Shouldn't be much work and make it a lot safer.
At my workplace we had a turbomolecular pump connected to a mass spectrometer simply explode about a week ago. If the outer Cover (which was in place for such a case) hadn't held up it would have sent shrapnel flying everywhere around the room. I don't even wanna imagine the damage to all the other sensitive equipment in the room or what would have happened to anyone that could have been in the room at the time.
Interesting. I was told the housing of the turbomolecular pump is capable of catching any shrapnel from the blades.
@@AdvancedTinkering Yeah, that's what I meant to say by outer cover (english sometimes uh), they purposely make the housing in a way that can withstand shrapnel and it did successfully stop them in our case
Sorry for being unclear there
I like the alternating clamps
What a lucky to find all these materials
As always you do an awesome job, glad you are getting recognition with sponsors. Stuff like yours is what makes youtube worth watching! thank you
When you used your bare finger to spin that turbo I immediately recoiled as I have cut the tip of my finger off doing the exact same thing on a different Pfieffer turbo.
Yeah, the blades are surprisingly sharp. Hope your finger recovered!
This is huge. I can’t wait to see how this develops!
Hello from Massachusetts USA! My fav chem channel
That chamber looks *awesome*. Looking forward to seeing what you’ll be doing with it!
You're living out my dreams with a giant vacuum chamber, hope you can do some cool experiments in it when it's ready.
As for the turbo pump, you need a 'crows foot' wrench fitting so you can tighten the turbo clamps with a torque wrench without the body of the pump interfering with the torque wrench.
two things. 1. get a wheeled bench to mount under the pump so when you need to remove it in the future you don't strain your back.
2. the 3d printed brackets could be replaced with a carbon fiber safety mesh that mounts in those spots just in case it ever does shatter. that way you can still remove it easily for filming and such and the brackets have a use. as far color? I wish they were all steel color.
Crow's foot wrench adaptor for those inset bolts.
you NEED to get the big one
Haha, there is no way I could get it into my basement. And as far as I understood the professor, they plan on using it as a display item in the university.
you could have used acrylic for the viewport, that stuff's used on deep sea submarines and can withstand more pressure than glass because it can flex slightly. but at least glass doesn't scratch and outgass under vacuum. I like the alternating silver and black clamps too.
Yes, I thought about acrylic but decided against it due to the outgassing. It would be much safer thought.
@@AdvancedTinkering Could double layer it? Like bulletproof glass?
Acrylic on the outside for safety if the glass on the inside pops?
So much space for activities!
awsome find
Yes, it really is! Very grateful the professor gave it to me.
To help with the mounting of the pump and the issue you had with the wrench you can use crowfoot adapter on the torque wrench to tighten the bolts if they socket heads, just remember to turn the crow foot adapter 90* so the torque is correct based on the length of the tool... they add some length to the lever are and thus you need to be careful when using them to not over tighten fasteners. Hope this helps next time you need to get at a tricky fastener with a torque wrench.
It’s possible the 24 clamp count might have something to do with even loading of the turbine housing across a wide range of chamber pressures as well as safety in a crash scenario.
This is some incredible piece of machinery. I don't have much ideas on how to use it, but if you'll sell it for a down payment on a mortgage, I wouldn't blame you
WOW! Looking at the place where your university dumps it's junk... I could never use the word "useless"... so many beautiful "toys", so little storage space in my office.
You can get sockets that have a crescent head off to the side that you can use to tighten your pump clamps with the torque wrench. You have to adjust the torque to account for the increased tool length
Awesome video, I have made large scientific vacuum chambers and other physics kit before,
Few useful tips. Phosphor bronze helicoils are great for aluminium tapped threads, these normally come with a specific tap for pre tapping the hole prior to putting the helicoil in which requires way less torque, also you can remove them easily should the worst happen.
Low -5s is pretty decent considering the roughing pump is quite small and is a rotary vane oil pump, be careful with experiments that might create a cold surface in the chamber as this can cause oil to be pumped back through the pump contaminating the turbo pump and chamber. Low -6s is probably the best you will be able to achieve with standard o-ring seals and kf /iso flanges, Viton and nitrile orings become pourous to some gasses at these pressures so you would need copper gasket seal to get lower ideally (cf flanges). But seeing as that pump is such a beast perhaps you could get to the low 7s, you can get “strainers” / mesh grid o rings for the dn260 pumps, doesn’t really affect the pumping speed but will stop a stray bolt from going into the pump.
Again awesome content, most university physics labs will have loads of pumps, vacuum systems and cryogenic equipment ect that are just collecting dust (I have seen this to be the case multiple times) great source of kit if you ask nicely
Thank you! Yes, I plan on adding a shield in front of the pump. A special mesh for the flange would be too expensive but I will see if I can get something made from stainless sheet metal.
If I reach low -6s I am absolutely happy.
Modified pasta strainers work pretty good
Maybe the high vacuum company is supporting you because your channel is just a big promotion for premade systems with all the hard work it takes to do it even semi diy
I should also say that with a pump that small and a chamber and high vacuum pump that large you will definitely run into molecular backflow of the oil from your foreline pump. Definitely recommend upgrading the size of the oil pump or getting your hands on a roots rotary pump. An Ebara or Kashiyama roots pump is ideal, can't recommend the Pfieffer ones as they are incredibly loud compared to their competition and far more expensive despite using older designs.
Amazing. All the best for your experiments.
project idea :
-put a LED laser cutter inside and use it to cut/engrave some materials, lack of air/oxygen should give some interesting results
-perform vacuum welding of clean metal objects
I actually have plans on using a laser inside a vacuum chamber (for pulsed laser deposition). Trying laser welding would also be interesting. Thanks for the idea!
I wonder if you could put a polarised light source inside the chamber and look at the viewport through polarising film to visualise any stress concentrations?
I thought about that but since the glass is tempered I think it allready is full of stress. Might be worth a try anyways.
Should have hit the gym for 3-6 months before attempting to mount the pump
a cool thing would exposing small objects, like an electrolytic cap, cocktail tomato, those small schokoladenschaumküsse, anyting that might be visually stimulating. but a small enough chamber so the dp is violent enough (lol). and maybe make the exhaust into the main chamber out of clear pipes, for nice Δp shots.
2:05 Wow, 1400 litres per second? That's a heck of a pump! What's that in terms of mass?
Err... About 200 picograms?
It's called turboMOLECULAR for a reason.
One can also think of it in terms of effective area. An aperture that removed every molecule that entered it would have a pumping speed of A*v/4 where A is the area and v the rms speed. 1400 L/s is an effective area of 0.019 m^2, or a circle of 15.5 cm diameter. So the pump is removing about half of the molecules that enter it, which is typical for a turbomolecular pump.
@@hammerth1421 Sure. I just think it's kind of amusing that a volumetric rating sounds incredibly impressive until you think about it a bit.
Moving 1200 litres per second isn't as OTT as it sounds when it's 1200 litres of almost literally nothing 😂
i know we all hate the "as long as a football field" comaprisons, but the energy 16k joule are very close to a .50 BMG round. and that is a useful comparison in/for my mind.
That's indeed a very nice and impressive comparison!
Ich find's so genial dass es Menschen wie dich und Platformen wie diese hier gibt die es Leuten mir erlaubt solchen Content zu genießen! bzgl des X1C ich hab mir kürzlich den gleichen Drucker gekauft, aus den gleichen Gründen wie du. Schau dass du nie langsamer als 150mm/s druckst wenn das Ergebnis hübsch sein soll, und druck die bitte unbedingt das Werkzeug aus mit dem man den Extruder zerlegen kann (ist so eine Befestigung auf die man den Extruder legt um eines seiner Zahnräder herauszuhämmern, anders bekommt man das Teil leider im Ernstfall echt nicht zerlegt)
Es freut mich sehr, dass dir die Videos/Projekte gefallen! Vielen Dank fürs ansehen!
Und danke für den Tipp mit dem Werkzeug für den Extruder. Werde ich bei Gelegenheit drucken.
Awesome turbopump!!!!
From my point of view, using a solid glass for such a large window is not a good idea, as scratches on its surphase can reduce its strength a lot (up to 10 times!). In my project i use a 300 mm window made of 30 mm triplex (3*10 mm). From my point of view, triplex is more robust and suitable for such applications, as forces are more smoothly distributed)
Thanks for the recommendation! May I ask how much you paid for a window that size?
@@AdvancedTinkering I ordered it at some glass-treatment firm in Moscow
a few years ago. I payed about 100 bucks for 370 mm wide window
amazing man.
Thanks!
0:13 very interesting technique, I hear thats called the "whoopsy" method of lock picking
Idea suggestion- Pull the water out of unopened Geodes! Then open them to see if it was able to pull out all of the liquid. 😊
Wtf I wish 😂 that is so sick. I'm happy for you big time but also really jealous😅
You are going to have fun! We use large machines at my work that run cryopumps. We routinely have 2.0x10-7 torr. The chambers are about 60" long x 24" across. Im sure you already know, but NEVER use anything made of brass in your system. It is a porous material and makes high vacuum practically impossible.
Plasma vapors deposit on some drill bit with some Titanium nitrate would be great
Still waiting for you to share the build information on your vacuum gauges.
PS : I like the black and silver clamps. Serves the purpose.
- outside-in lighting is a great idea, maybe put some more leds around the window in the empty spots.
- consider putting a polycarbonate sheet outside in front of the glass. possibly removable, so you can move it aside if you want to film.
Does the BigPump need to be unobstructed inside the chamber?
can you put something in front of it inside the chamber to protect it from becoming a viral video?
As for what to do with the chamber?
Maybe start a business vapor deposition coating whole pets? anything up to a dog would fit...
Your honest opinion about the 3D printer seems to be exactly the same opinion than many other youtubers who have received a Bamboo printer recently.
What an adventure 😊
awesome
when it came time to mount the pump i first heard "14 kilogram" and i wondered how that was a challenge then i listened again and was like AAAAAAHHHH yeah that makes more sense
Thats sooo cool!
You definitely could've printed those parts with less support if you just flipped them over. Can't wait to see what you do with the chamber.
Haha, true. But I didn't want a different surface finish on the top due to the build plate.
Great video
Thank you!
After watching your vacuum chamber video I was thinking about getting myself a broodje frikandel with some mayonaise.
Please make sure the vacuum chamber is also secured properly. You wouldn't be the first one that secured your TMP to the chamber thinking that the weight of the chamber would stop it. Then have a TMP failure and see the chamber go flying through the room. Regarding getting to a lowest possible vacuüm, I don't know what the outgassing properties of super glue are, but I wouldn't suspect them to be that favourable. Further, the surface finish looks relatively rough, you could look into electro polishing it. This minimizes the surface area thus improving your vacuüm. I would love to see some experiments with RGA's. You can get some interesting data out of them
thanks for all the inspiring videos 👍
Awesome.
Instad of adding window maybe better will be just instaling camera inside, less cool but much simpler
Many cameras overheat and or off gas in vaccum conditions
@@nikolausluhrs why not make the viewing port fit a thicc fisheye lense, and have the camera body located outside ?
2:40 The 16000 Nm is the torque which the pump is expected to produce in a crash. Although the torque units and the energy units coincide, the torque is not the energy.
To spin the pump up requires 750 Watts for 480 seconds. This corresponds to the energy of 360000 Joules (equivalent to 86 grams of TNT). Of course, some of this goes into friction and other losses, so the energy stored in the rotor is somewhat less than that. But this number is in the right ballpark, and would roughly correspond to a 6 kg 300 mm diameter disk rotating at the nominal for this pump rpm.
Who needs friends when you have a giant vacuum chamber friend
Amazing dude !
Thanks!
Ooo. I must subscribe to this! Oh. I already am. Good work past me.
The clamps on the viewport look fine. Of course, as soon as you pull a slight vacuum, you don't need any of them ;-)
Haha, I appreciate it!
With very careful bakeout and long pumpdown on an extra clean interior, I expect your ultimate pressure will be ~2-3e-7mbar as long as the roughing pump can support the foreline at >4e-2mbar. I tried zooming at 4k but was not able to make out the model number of it.
It is a Pfeiffer Duo 2.5. If i get down to -6 in the chamber, I'm absolutely fine with that.
@AdvancedTinkering considering that the Duo supports a fore pressure of >1e-2mbar and the turbos final pressure is >1e-7mbar you should be able to quite easily achieve -6mbar range. I work with vacuum coating plants so watching your videos is a great pleasure ❤
@@AdvancedTinkering unless you have some very specific applications in mind, most experiments can be done between 2e-5mbar and 5e-6mbar 😉
In an electro trash dumpster at my university I have found a perfectly fine working GC-FID machine from Agilent or a small turbo [pump with controller xD It is a gold mine sometimes.
Awesome vacuum chamber, I personally don't like the 3D printed clamps, otherwise really nice, my suggestion maybe get a bigger rotary vane vacuum pump
awsome video
Thank you!
i'd be keen to see plasma in the chamber nothing comes to mind more than the smarter everyday and impreza plasma sphere or ion propulsion. perhaps Nile could offer some interesting chemicals that behave safely under such conditions or backyard scientist for some cool lazers
Sweet
You can use it to recreate the Byford Dolphin Accident !
I'd love to see some ionic propulsion tests
Why not make the 3D printed clamps wide enough so they bridge the whole space between the aluminium clamps? That would then add some (impact) protection to the window the whole way around, since they don’t really work as clamps properly anyway I guess (much less stiff and strong than the aluminium ones, so those take the load).
That's an interesting idea, I will try that out. And you are right, the 3D printed clamps are only for esthetics they do not clamp anything.
Cool ❤
Oh boy, the future looks bright. Can you put more lights on outside maybe at 12, 3, and 9 o'clock?
3:26 This section is probably the most german thing I've ever heard, lol.
Make the most expensive "freeze dried" skittles in existance. 😂
Cool, o-ring splicing should be a scarf joint, not a butt joint. 👍
I would assume, that doing it by hand could introduce more imperfections than butt joint.
I can’t believe you ran that pump outside the chamber lol
I about had a heart attack...I was yelling NOOOO!
i say shoot for the moon, be the first youtuber to show the casimir effect.
lol when the vacuum pump started up I could feel it's many years of boring experiments lol
To reach higher vacuum, ususally it helps to run the rough pump overnight. Water and other volatiles sticks to the walls. Baking helps, but it is a real hassle.
Flushing with argon helps too. But that is a bit expensive method.
Ps. That is not the biggest turbomolecular pump I have seen.
We have one as big as me when sitting down at work. :D
Yeah, I have no idea how I would heat a chamber that size. So running the pump for a long time seems to be the only option.
Haha, yes, there are far bigger ones :D
Don't run any Carbon Fiber or other abrasives through the AMS. Bambu recommends using an external spool due to the high wear on the internal Bowden tubes.
Will you not have out-gassing problems using Aluminium, and we always use gasket cord to make o-rings, as long as you cut it square and use fine emery paper to smooth it you won't have any problems
Yes, aluminium is worse than stainless but if you don't need to get into the UHV range, it's fine.
You can try to coat amateur telescope mirrors in that chamber with aluminium. Might even earn some money for that expensive oil.
Thumbnail: "It sucks!"
Nothing sucks! Thing can only be pushed.
You don't suck the drinks with a straw, the atmosphere pushes it into your mount.
And at some point, it doesn’t even push anymore. You have to wait for the molecule to bounce around until it hits the opening of the pump. But that wouldn’t sound as catchy on a thumbnail ;)
1. The magnets in the pump suck, or the magnetic fields they create do.
2. The electric fields made by voltage in the wires probably suck on electrons and and probably charged ions here and there too.
3. The protons in the atoms that it's made from suck on electrons keeping them in clouds.
4. Quarks in it are having a suck-fest, all sucking each other.
5. All parts with mass suck each other due to gravity.
6. Lastly the expansion of the universe slowly sucks everything (actually maybe not, but possibly).
It sucks more than you think!
The stitch welds on the chamber surprise me. I guess it was epoxied together, and then a few stitch welds for strength?
The inside is completely welded. I don't think there was any epoxy involved.
Vacuum devices are usually welded from the inside if possible. Leaving un-welded seams on the inside will trap gases.
This window from alibaba reminds of the implosion of the titan submersible. Just dont take shortcuts like Stockton Rush.
3:52 That stud looks like a nightmare. I run a the leak test lab for an aluminum ultra-high vacuum chamber manufacturer and we use helical inserts (helicoils). I've installed literally tens of thousands of them without nearly as much work. They can be tricky with out the install tool but a bolt works decently.
I was curious about your gasket lays; did you leave them with that circular lay? or did you place a parallel scratch pattern and just not film it?
Yeah, I should have used helicoils. Now I know for the next time I'm using thread inserts.
The "scratches" were so fine, I didn't think it would be necessary to sand it parallel to the o-ring. But I will probably still do it in the future.
Drehmomentschlüssel sind nur was für gefühllose 😂
Silver PLA Silk from Bambu labs, it kinda looks like metal, and replace the black window adapters. Is there any reason why you wanted to use glass and not 1" thick polycarbonate?
Thanks for the tip!
I thought about using a polycarbonate window. But polymers outgass under vacuum and with a surface area that large, it would be quite significant.
Why not make an engine lift kinda thing that can help you with lifting, fitting and aligning such heavy stuff in the future?
Yes, I definitely should get an engine hoist. So far, I’ve always avoided the cost, but it's really useful for situations like this.
@@AdvancedTinkering Motorcycle jacks are also a reasonably priced option if a small range of lift is enough.
@@AdvancedTinkering waiting for a video on the same, if you plan on making it that is. I had tried, but cost was an issue + not that familiar with hydraulics yet
Its a nice setup.
Died a little when you turned the pump on in atmosphere
I'm still looking for a way to rent a really good high speed camera. I want to film dropping a nut into one of the pumps at full speed. That video might be something for you ;)
Would it make sense to add some kind of metal screen in front of the vacuum, to protect it from broken glass in case anything goes wrong?
You could fit a 300mm wafer if there... just sayin'. ;)
Would putting a bit of K or NaK in the chamber give you a "getter" to bring the pressure down further? What other things are you planning to try (you mentioned baking for example)?
...are you not worried about cyanoacrylate outgassing?
Btw. The clamps on the glass are complete overkill. They only need to be there to ensure that glass doesnt fall off, outside airpressure will hold it fine with no clamps when operating.
It's just a little bit. This splicing method is common and can be made to work well enough for most but not all purposes. The threat of a leak is the more important problem of this method. O-rings are a little bit permeable to air no matter what you do.
After watching the potassium video the only logical conclusion is that your character's Luck attribute must be 10