Good one! It's funny I had this conversation just this past week about generative patching with a friend. Had to tell them, don't be stuck thinking "Audio is Audio and CV is CV". Run the Audio to Sample & Hold, or an envelope follower / slew, or whatever! Audio is a great modulation source. Thanks for taking the time to educate
one of my fav tricks (which i think i picked up from an instruo demo video, he uses this trick a lot) is using a triangle lfo as a s&h source and quantizing the output for melody generation. especially if your lfo can morph between waveforms then you can morph between melodies
@@mylarmelodies and if your lfo has a sync/reset input you can send it a trigger to restart the "sequence", do that every 2 bars or whatever and it's jam time :P
Super slick jamz beginning at 4:40. Really Ace. As a Mavis owner, I too find its unorthodox S&H implementation supportive of equally unorthodox yet fresh bleeps. "Fresh Bleeps" (tm)
Came here after reading the Patch and Tweak with Moog book , and guess who has an article in that book? the synth god @mylarmelodies himself! absolute legend!
Love that funky background you have.... I love this choice Moog made. The closest I have personally done that gets close to this is using an SQ-1 to mod the filter on one of my semimodulars which definitely makes it rhythmic. I used a Rare Waves RA-99 Grendel Grenadier which uses formant filter and the SQ-1 sent two signals to the two different filter CV inputs. It gave some great robotic gurgling. I played my melody off this with the pitch controlled through a CV/gate keyboard. It was a ton of fun... Def going to think about an oscillator as a mod source.
I tend to use S+H more with a sequencer as the input (divided clock as trigger). so that notes are "holdeded" :). then run that cv into an OSC so that the held note drones away but it drones in relation to the sequence playing on the main OSC. (need a nice stable S+H for that tho if the notes are to be held for any length of time, a-148 for example tends to drift the note out of tune if held too long but the disting S+H mode will hold a voltage for days if you want it to) I use S+H on literally every patch :)
@@mylarmelodies yeah I've heard good things about RND steps stability for that kinda thing (can't get one anywhere at the moment tho, Ben has said that they are having trouble sourcing chips for it) I had no doubt that you knew about that little gem :), I just thought I'd put it up there as info for other people to maybe use. as you say a lot of people just see S+H as a random thing to put on the cutoff of a filter but it can be so much more.
another little trick I like to use is have a basic CV sequence running into a mixer then have a random S+H (sampled noise) go into a quantizer then into another channel of the mixer. mix the 2 together for a constantly varying sequence that has a repeating basis. kinda like layering random on top of a repeating thing
the Mavis seems to hit the sweet spot of being minimal and very appoachable yet interesting enough to not get bored....that is an extremely hard thing to achieve in electronic instrument design
Michael Barton's module 2LFOSH defaults to one LFO clocking sample and hold, with the other LFO being sampled. Both can do slow LFO to audio rate for similar result. But using Oscillator takes it a step further, as it can be repitched to the same rhythm and the resulting "sequence" changes note by note Crazy wild. And sick drop.
Very nice, thanks for this idea. You could run the S&H output into the attenuator and patch the EG output into that, so the depth of the S&H modulation to the cutoff follows your EG (if I got this correct).
This was a really interesting video, and I really liked it! May I ask for a consideration to be made on future videos? The moving background is super distracting for me, and it's hard to catch what you're saying because of the distraction. May you use something a little more subtle for the background in the future? I appreciate the aesthetic, but also felt distracted as I watched this. I know I'm one viewer of many, but figured I would leave that feedback for you to consider (though I know it is unsolicited....) Thanks! Btw.. I love your videos! You've re-inspired my love of synthesis, and I'm excited to finally get into it fully!
Ahh no it's cool - it's an experiment, I defo wondered if it would be an issue for some! Thanks for the feedback, I'm generally convinced that a static background (eg wooden table) is the sensible thing for anything where the visuals aren't the key factor!
Tres tres bon bon. I think the Michigan Synth Works SY0.5 does something similar, I have no idea if this is actually the case but the S+H sounds like it has a rhythmic cycle to it which is very pleasing to the old listening holes
inspiring video as always, correct me if I am wrong but I was looking at the Bastl's Soft Pop 2 manual and it has the same trick applied to its S&H: they use the oscilator's triangle wave output and I am assuming the result should be similar to this
Yes! Didn't know about that one and another commenter mentioned it. Another thing I do know of that uses a similar trick is actually the ARP1601 sequencer random mode, back in 1976!
I know I can do this all already but damn it makes me want a Mavis. Where are the drums coming from? This is the kind of clangourous dark vibe I have been chasing.
It occurs to me that in modular, you could use an entirely different oscillator, which is not in the audio mix, but IS receiving V/oct, as the S&H source, giving even more flexibility.
You're making least note so lively ... As a comment since I was playing a bit with the toy, the osc wave form can be morphed to pulse so it can include a baseline component within the resulting pattern, more or less pronounced by the pulse width. And if the pitch modulates the S&H gate source (here LFO) then the pattern signature will be preserved whatever the pitch, which enables to run it slower or faster.
Cool tip. I like the idea of reigning in the randomness a little. With S&H there's often a danger of sounding like you're attempting to re-score Forbidden Planet or something! I like the Mavis. Cool little synth. I'm toying with the idea of mocing on my Kilpatrick Phenol and filling its vacant space with a Mavis and possibly a Make Noise Strega. Not sure though. I do like the Phenol, it plays well with Eurorack and is this really about having a change? 😕
That sense of controlled randomness is one of the reasons I've had my eye on AJH Synth's Sample Hold & Slew for a while now. Admittedly it's near the bottom of my list, since it's kinda pricey. Maybe Mavis makes more sense right now, given everything else it has on offer...
When the Mavis was announced and released I was disappointed that it didn’t have noise onboard and thought the S&H sampling the VCO was dumb. Boy was I wrong!
Yes they're Tiptop Stackcables! And haha sorry, yes Mavis is pretty dang good, especially when you compare the cost of the included 'modules' vs buying individual Eurorack modules...
Very nice trick. I'm pretty sure it was an economic decision, but the result speaks for itself. The Mavis is a... squiggly (is that the right word?) wonder box. Still wondering, if I should get this or a 0-Coast or Strega. Unfortunately, money constraint is an issue here. ;) Edit: And, yes, I just tried using the DFAM's VCO1 output as the sample source instead of the output of the Turing Machine, and the result is... interesting. Right now the Turing Machine just provides the triggers through Pulses which triggers both of my S&Hs in the Doepfer A-148, which then send CV to the oscillators in both the DFAM and Subharmonicon. Nice Stuff! Edit2: This actually is also a nice trick to add a second (pseudo) random melody line. In my case the Turing Machine is one and VCO1 of the DFAM the other. I can now just switch between them. Thanks again, Alex, for teaching us all these neat little tricks!
wow, nothing new, is it? What strucked me hard is how many synth people had no clue about the fundamental concept how sample and hold is working. no geniuses at moog when it comes to this cause this is just boring old coffee i have been thinking. maybe people should play with their synth and learn subtractive synthesis basics instead of watching such videos. never heard such stuff from aphex twin or so? A bit embarrassing people!
@@mylarmelodies aphex twin is a very famous electronic music artist and he used exactly this method on various tracks, for example in the huge "analord" series. It was just an example. I am not into modular but i know what a s&h module is doing. There are some other synth that can do exactly that. Choosing the sample and hold source and rate. For example the 2600m which design is very old. I didn't like how you present this feature especially in relation to moog. You deliver it like they have created a very unique and own feature. And i think that some people received it like that when i read the comments. If you look at modular stuff there are a lot of designs worth to be integrated in the non modular synth world. Wavefolder with pre shaping circuits is a thing now. But there is a lot more and even so small things like another s/h source gets Appreciation for a reason. It isn't done maybe because we are still in the vintage hype time and most people want the old stuff back, still. Minimoog for 6k for example or prophet 10, obx8 which is a potato but with very great sound. I hope there will be a change. Why not craving for a synth with vintage sound charakteristics in the quality of prophet 5 or obx8 but with modern and more features like on polybrute and modular stuff? The best of all worlds! In my opinon the biggest proplem with synth people in relation to social media these days is that they put way more time in the synth market than in exploring the synth and synthesis in general. A synth is an exploration instrument. Explore your stuff inside out before or instead of searching or buying new stuff which you are just scratching the surface of. It needs really a lot of practice and time to know how all parameters influence each other and to know what you do. Learning subtractive synthesis in general, how it works and what the knobs do is extremely easy. But to "master" It is extremely difficult. For example i am sure most people are not aware of how big the sound potential even of synth like ob6 is. Now it is a very simple synth missing a lot features which are standard now a days but even though the sound pallette is very huge. In demos like the one from jexus you get an idea whats also possible. All in all i like your video very much for showing people stuff like that and this also in a musical context. And i really like the drums. But i don't like the presentation or the tone in relation to moog or the mavis. To come to the core: I am quite critical with synthtubers and synth influencer in general. If you are new to this game you get the idea very easy that you always need something new and that there is always somthing missing or better sounding you somehow need. Because there are a lot of channels which just contains that and nothing more.
@MB I'm not sure who you're addressing, but I guess you are new round here as I was joking. I've been doing this for nearly 25 years & once sold RDJ a Moog Modular(!) I'd also make a case that I don't think think he does use this trick much, his steppy sound is through very deliberate step sequencer programming to get the accents to hit exactly right and create specific phrasing, people think using random generators will get you the same results - only if you sample it and apply a lot of good taste. I see you're upset about the consumerist aspect of synth videos, but dear friend, this is a tutorial about exploring cyclic audio rate signals into a S&H to try and get more deliberate results, it's just using the Moog synth as a vehicle to talk about a patch idea, since it is the only semi modular synth ever made with that default routing. ARP may well have popularised S&Hs, but the 2600, and I can confirm first hand as I am sat three feet from one, has white noise as its default S&H routing which was the whole point raised in the video. You have gone on to conflate a tutorial with synth promotion in general - though that is something I do too. I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve with the comment but if companies don't sell their gear successfully, you don't ever get to have your "best of all worlds" futuristic synth idea. Sorry you're upset, it must be very hard. You'll get over it, I'm sure.
Applied this info to my softpop ii (it has triangle as source) and it sounds amazing. Love these short little actionable videos. Thanks for teaching.
Great exploration! Makes me want to get out the Mavis and play with it right away 😄
This!!!
Good one! It's funny I had this conversation just this past week about generative patching with a friend. Had to tell them, don't be stuck thinking "Audio is Audio and CV is CV". Run the Audio to Sample & Hold, or an envelope follower / slew, or whatever! Audio is a great modulation source. Thanks for taking the time to educate
Amazing rhythm at 5:54. Remembered Silver Apples.
one of my fav tricks (which i think i picked up from an instruo demo video, he uses this trick a lot) is using a triangle lfo as a s&h source and quantizing the output for melody generation. especially if your lfo can morph between waveforms then you can morph between melodies
Thoroughly excellent tip
@@mylarmelodies and if your lfo has a sync/reset input you can send it a trigger to restart the "sequence", do that every 2 bars or whatever and it's jam time :P
Super slick jamz beginning at 4:40. Really Ace. As a Mavis owner, I too find its unorthodox S&H implementation supportive of equally unorthodox yet fresh bleeps. "Fresh Bleeps" (tm)
Man, this was enjoyable to watch and listen to. :D
Thanks for the presentation, Mylar.
Envelope to s&h to filter cutoff is one of my favorite thing!
Wow!
Everything is good in this video.
Thanks a lot!
Thank you so much. This was a great help.
Came here after reading the Patch and Tweak with Moog book , and guess who has an article in that book? the synth god @mylarmelodies himself! absolute legend!
Oh you - thanks m8, was an honour. x
Love that funky background you have.... I love this choice Moog made. The closest I have personally done that gets close to this is using an SQ-1 to mod the filter on one of my semimodulars which definitely makes it rhythmic. I used a Rare Waves RA-99 Grendel Grenadier which uses formant filter and the SQ-1 sent two signals to the two different filter CV inputs. It gave some great robotic gurgling. I played my melody off this with the pitch controlled through a CV/gate keyboard. It was a ton of fun...
Def going to think about an oscillator as a mod source.
Where have u been cutey
I tend to use S+H more with a sequencer as the input (divided clock as trigger). so that notes are "holdeded" :). then run that cv into an OSC so that the held note drones away but it drones in relation to the sequence playing on the main OSC. (need a nice stable S+H for that tho if the notes are to be held for any length of time, a-148 for example tends to drift the note out of tune if held too long but the disting S+H mode will hold a voltage for days if you want it to)
I use S+H on literally every patch :)
Yep this for me was the biggest revelation too!! Divkids RND Step is brilliant for this, as is Disting as you say!
@@mylarmelodies yeah I've heard good things about RND steps stability for that kinda thing (can't get one anywhere at the moment tho, Ben has said that they are having trouble sourcing chips for it) I had no doubt that you knew about that little gem :), I just thought I'd put it up there as info for other people to maybe use.
as you say a lot of people just see S+H as a random thing to put on the cutoff of a filter but it can be so much more.
another little trick I like to use is have a basic CV sequence running into a mixer then have a random S+H (sampled noise) go into a quantizer then into another channel of the mixer. mix the 2 together for a constantly varying sequence that has a repeating basis. kinda like layering random on top of a repeating thing
the Mavis seems to hit the sweet spot of being minimal and very appoachable yet interesting enough to not get bored....that is an extremely hard thing to achieve in electronic instrument design
Love that greenscreen thing you did. Keep on doing that pls
Cool use of the Hypno
Michael Barton's module 2LFOSH defaults to one LFO clocking sample and hold, with the other LFO being sampled. Both can do slow LFO to audio rate for similar result. But using Oscillator takes it a step further, as it can be repitched to the same rhythm and the resulting "sequence" changes note by note Crazy wild. And sick drop.
I was just gonna say!
Interesting.
It's weird that even though I have way more expensive synthesizers I often find myself messing around with the mavis.
It sounds pretty neat. It sounds more musical!
Very nice, thanks for this idea. You could run the S&H output into the attenuator and patch the EG output into that, so the depth of the S&H modulation to the cutoff follows your EG (if I got this correct).
Cool trick, sounds great!
Thanks for the info and as always inspiring lesson.
didn't think of that. I was using lfos into a quantizer the other day, for those weird arps, combined with that trick would be sick.
Yeye, professor Mylar is back!
Your are Holdeded in our Hearts
Much Health and Love
That is an interesting S&H
Nice. Did you see the Mutable forums thread about making sample and hold with a Stages. It's pretty cooool you'll like it
Have been doing this for years with my first CV module the Moog CP-251
Are you foreshadowing an NLC vid Mylar?
Good video 👍. Yep, s&h is for more than just random generation.
That's a trippy background. Green screen mat on the table?
Yep! With the Hypno doing the pattern
@@mylarmelodies I am disappointed. I was hoping that you would tell me that you literally live in a psychedelic dimension of spacetime.
This was a really interesting video, and I really liked it!
May I ask for a consideration to be made on future videos? The moving background is super distracting for me, and it's hard to catch what you're saying because of the distraction. May you use something a little more subtle for the background in the future? I appreciate the aesthetic, but also felt distracted as I watched this. I know I'm one viewer of many, but figured I would leave that feedback for you to consider (though I know it is unsolicited....) Thanks!
Btw.. I love your videos! You've re-inspired my love of synthesis, and I'm excited to finally get into it fully!
Ahh no it's cool - it's an experiment, I defo wondered if it would be an issue for some! Thanks for the feedback, I'm generally convinced that a static background (eg wooden table) is the sensible thing for anything where the visuals aren't the key factor!
Tres tres bon bon. I think the Michigan Synth Works SY0.5 does something similar, I have no idea if this is actually the case but the S+H sounds like it has a rhythmic cycle to it which is very pleasing to the old listening holes
inspiring video as always, correct me if I am wrong but I was looking at the Bastl's Soft Pop 2 manual and it has the same trick applied to its S&H: they use the oscilator's triangle wave output and I am assuming the result should be similar to this
Yes! Didn't know about that one and another commenter mentioned it. Another thing I do know of that uses a similar trick is actually the ARP1601 sequencer random mode, back in 1976!
Sounds very cool for such a small box.
But the coolest machine / device is the Akai MPC X.
They're pretty much the same thing when you think about it.
What was the other synth performing drum synthesis?
Nvm, I heard the Novation Circuit name dropped there. Sounded amazing, may need to get one
Yeah it’s legit good - an amazing device to combine with other devices and make small ideas making setups
I know I can do this all already but damn it makes me want a Mavis.
Where are the drums coming from? This is the kind of clangourous dark vibe I have been chasing.
It occurs to me that in modular, you could use an entirely different oscillator, which is not in the audio mix, but IS receiving V/oct, as the S&H source, giving even more flexibility.
Definitely! Or a free running LFO, or anything that’s periodic really.
You're making least note so lively ... As a comment since I was playing a bit with the toy, the osc wave form can be morphed to pulse so it can include a baseline component within the resulting pattern, more or less pronounced by the pulse width. And if the pitch modulates the S&H gate source (here LFO) then the pattern signature will be preserved whatever the pitch, which enables to run it slower or faster.
Cool tip. I like the idea of reigning in the randomness a little. With S&H there's often a danger of sounding like you're attempting to re-score Forbidden Planet or something! I like the Mavis. Cool little synth. I'm toying with the idea of mocing on my Kilpatrick Phenol and filling its vacant space with a Mavis and possibly a Make Noise Strega. Not sure though. I do like the Phenol, it plays well with Eurorack and is this really about having a change? 😕
Have you tried controlling the VCO pitch with it? Probably a silly question, of course you have. I love my Mavis :)
Aliasing used for effect.
That sense of controlled randomness is one of the reasons I've had my eye on AJH Synth's Sample Hold & Slew for a while now. Admittedly it's near the bottom of my list, since it's kinda pricey. Maybe Mavis makes more sense right now, given everything else it has on offer...
0:35 Did ... did you just say "holdeded" ?
I dideded
When the Mavis was announced and released I was disappointed that it didn’t have noise onboard and thought the S&H sampling the VCO was dumb. Boy was I wrong!
this is why I love the ARP odysey
ahh yes - that’s a good point, it has a super tricked out S&H!
I wonder how Mavis' sample and hold sounds when using polyrhythms... [reaches for the nearest Subharmonicon]
Nice
Newbie alert!😀
These cables are stackcable 3.5?
Thanks for this video. I try to get mavis out of my gear wish list... This DIDN'T HELP! 🥰
Yes they're Tiptop Stackcables! And haha sorry, yes Mavis is pretty dang good, especially when you compare the cost of the included 'modules' vs buying individual Eurorack modules...
Very nice trick. I'm pretty sure it was an economic decision, but the result speaks for itself. The Mavis is a... squiggly (is that the right word?) wonder box. Still wondering, if I should get this or a 0-Coast or Strega. Unfortunately, money constraint is an issue here. ;)
Edit: And, yes, I just tried using the DFAM's VCO1 output as the sample source instead of the output of the Turing Machine, and the result is... interesting. Right now the Turing Machine just provides the triggers through Pulses which triggers both of my S&Hs in the Doepfer A-148, which then send CV to the oscillators in both the DFAM and Subharmonicon. Nice Stuff!
Edit2: This actually is also a nice trick to add a second (pseudo) random melody line. In my case the Turing Machine is one and VCO1 of the DFAM the other. I can now just switch between them. Thanks again, Alex, for teaching us all these neat little tricks!
Thanks!! I am but a messenger of tricks ;)
You know that's likely how Kraftwerk created lead sound in Numbers...😉
'licious
Cheater, you use multi-plug cables.
wow, nothing new, is it? What strucked me hard is how many synth people had no clue about the fundamental concept how sample and hold is working. no geniuses at moog when it comes to this cause this is just boring old coffee i have been thinking. maybe people should play with their synth and learn subtractive synthesis basics instead of watching such videos.
never heard such stuff from aphex twin or so?
A bit embarrassing people!
Who’s Aphex Twin
@@mylarmelodies i don't know. I just thought youuuu know him!?
@@markus6409 No I am unfamiliar with the history of electronic music and equipment
@@mylarmelodies aphex twin is a very famous electronic music artist and he used exactly this method on various tracks, for example in the huge "analord" series. It was just an example.
I am not into modular but i know what a s&h module is doing. There are some other synth that can do exactly that. Choosing the sample and hold source and rate.
For example the 2600m which design is very old.
I didn't like how you present this feature especially in relation to moog.
You deliver it like they have created a very unique and own feature. And i think that some people received it like that when i read the comments.
If you look at modular stuff there are a lot of designs worth to be integrated in the non modular synth world.
Wavefolder with pre shaping circuits is a thing now. But there is a lot more and even so small things like another s/h source gets Appreciation for a reason.
It isn't done maybe because we are still in the vintage hype time and most people want the old stuff back, still. Minimoog for 6k for example or prophet 10, obx8 which is a potato but with very great sound.
I hope there will be a change.
Why not craving for a synth with vintage sound charakteristics in the quality of prophet 5 or obx8 but with modern and more features like on polybrute and modular stuff?
The best of all worlds!
In my opinon the biggest proplem with synth people in relation to social media these days is that they put way more time in the synth market than in exploring the synth and synthesis in general.
A synth is an exploration instrument. Explore your stuff inside out before or instead of searching or buying new stuff which you are just scratching the surface of.
It needs really a lot of practice and time to know how all parameters influence each other and to know what you do.
Learning subtractive synthesis in general, how it works and what the knobs do is extremely easy. But to "master" It is extremely difficult.
For example i am sure most people are not aware of how big the sound potential even of synth like ob6 is.
Now it is a very simple synth missing a lot features which are standard now a days but even though the sound pallette is very huge. In demos like the one from jexus you get an idea whats also possible.
All in all i like your video very much for showing people stuff like that and this also in a musical context. And i really like the drums.
But i don't like the presentation or the tone in relation to moog or the mavis.
To come to the core:
I am quite critical with synthtubers and synth influencer in general. If you are new to this game you get the idea very easy that you always need something new and that there is always somthing missing or better sounding you somehow need. Because there are a lot of channels which just contains that and nothing more.
@MB I'm not sure who you're addressing, but I guess you are new round here as I was joking. I've been doing this for nearly 25 years & once sold RDJ a Moog Modular(!) I'd also make a case that I don't think think he does use this trick much, his steppy sound is through very deliberate step sequencer programming to get the accents to hit exactly right and create specific phrasing, people think using random generators will get you the same results - only if you sample it and apply a lot of good taste. I see you're upset about the consumerist aspect of synth videos, but dear friend, this is a tutorial about exploring cyclic audio rate signals into a S&H to try and get more deliberate results, it's just using the Moog synth as a vehicle to talk about a patch idea, since it is the only semi modular synth ever made with that default routing. ARP may well have popularised S&Hs, but the 2600, and I can confirm first hand as I am sat three feet from one, has white noise as its default S&H routing which was the whole point raised in the video. You have gone on to conflate a tutorial with synth promotion in general - though that is something I do too. I'm not sure what you're hoping to achieve with the comment but if companies don't sell their gear successfully, you don't ever get to have your "best of all worlds" futuristic synth idea. Sorry you're upset, it must be very hard. You'll get over it, I'm sure.
Hi! Have you ever considered AE Modular?
Not really, not tried it but I bet it’s good?
I always thought a green screen table would be a good thing to do. I blame it on the wolfman. ruclips.net/video/3zWtOREysqs/видео.html