checkmate with knight and bishop is easy because there is strategy which you can just learn and follow. rook vs queen is extremely hard because there is no repeatable strategy which will help you with getting philidorf position.
it's not common knowledge, amateurs always learn the Philidor position, but reaching it against perfect defense is very difficult. There's a whole RUclips playlist about it I came across a while ago. ruclips.net/p/PLRdbvtd0qOHM5bTDgWrVyhCQrxtYnrfXV It's interesting, but I wouldn't spend much time on it, people don't play the computer defense and the KQ v KR endgame has a low probability of appearing, still much higher probability than KNB v K.
Queen versus Rook endgame: You insane. One of the most complicated endgames, way more complicated than checkmate with bishop and knight. Studying QvsR helped me a lot wining Rooks with my qeen in middlegames ;)
This queen vs rook endgame is a nightmare. I studied it some, didn't really understand how to do it, and then found myself in just such a game with me having the queen. My opponent blundered away his rook and I managed to win but had he put up perfect defense there is very little chance I could have executed that endgame correctly. And I STILL don't completely understand how to do it !
Summary: Queen From the Philidor Position, all you have to do is find the fork. Third Rank Defense: Put your queen away from the enemy king so that you can fork on the longer diagonal once the king and rook get seperated. Slowly force the King towards the corner to the Philidor Position (or just win on the way). Second Rank Defense: Beware Stalemate while again forcing the king into the corner. Don't blunder. Rook Try to get into the Third Rank Defense and just wait from there, stay resilient for 50 moves. If you can't, do the same from the Second Rank. Always try to keep King and Rook together, and lookout for blunders that draw or even win the game if white is careless.
At 11:09 another way (after 1...Ra6) is 2 Qc4 Rf6 (...Rg6 also loses quickly after 3 Kb5+) 3Qc3 Rh6 (other moves lose quickly) 4 Kb5+ Kb7 5 Qg7+ fork. Other moves by Black also fall to forced forking sequences. For instance, after 4...Kb8 5 Qg3+ and there is a fork coming on g7.
There is no straight forward method to solve queen vs rook endgame. I mean tackle any random position with perfect accuracy. The way to solve this is to reduce the initial position to next lowest distance to mate position. For example if the initial position is 10 moves to mate then the goal is to reduce it to mate in 9 moves position then to 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 and 1. If anyone interested to learn this step by step then check this ruclips.net/p/PLVQF5gqzqrR4wXJsFGCqnZlJZatPenapD. In this you'll find compilation of puzzles for each distance to mate position. Currently up to 5 added.
Hi Stjepan, hi chess lovers! Queen vs Rook, what a nightmare! I tried to win it against Stockfish from random positions an guess what: I failed. It's not about basic checkmate, it is a full endgame, lots of things to know! Your explanation is a good example, but to really get through it I recommend Derek Grimmell and tons over tons of practice...nevertheless: The knowledege you spread is a HUGE GOODIE for us "normal" players!!! Thank you and stay healthy!
lmao imagine the guy knows 3rd rank defense, you tryhard you manage to reach the 2nd rank defense, then you get tricked 16:11 and back to 3rd rank defense xD
Thanks for your videos! Very useful and well explained. I've been training on this endgame. One question: at 13:08 after King c6 what happen if black plays rook g6 ... I don't manage to figure it out !
I'm playing the computer now, and this video covers everything except what the computer is playing. For example, at 17:25 after Qf6+, computer is going Kg8 and I'm lost lol
For everyone interested in learning this notoriously difficult endgame in detail - I've made a study covering everything you need to know, including some exercises to help you on the way. lichess.org/study/ZqgEdqxj I hope it'll be of use and that you'll gain something out of it! 😀
Nice video, appreciate the general principles. One question on the second rank defense (starting 15:44) - after 1. Qf5 Kd8 2. Qc5, Black has 2. ... Re6+. Doesn't this free Black up?
There is no straight forward method to solve queen vs rook endgame. I mean tackle any random position with perfect accuracy. The way to solve this is to reduce the initial position to next lowest distance to mate position. For example if the initial position is 10 moves to mate then the goal is to reduce it to mate in 9 moves position then to 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 and 1. If anyone interested to learn this step by step then check this ruclips.net/p/PLVQF5gqzqrR4wXJsFGCqnZlJZatPenapD. In this you'll find compilation of puzzles for each distance to mate position. Currently up to 5 added.
I'm currently stuck on this endgame in lichess in the education tutorials.. I can only manage to draw a couple of ways. It's very hard to get the right geometry to fork the rook. I admit I am a noob, but this endgame ia killa vs the machine.
heard that an fm say that he also has trouble with that ruclips.net/video/g3XsaJ9fSc8/видео.html&ab_channel=ChesscomIndia 2:24. Does not necesseraly mean you are a noob.
THere is a RUclips as follows from Chess Goals which shows how to start with the defending side still in the middle of the board. URL ruclips.net/video/o44Wmbtz2Nw/видео.html&ab_channel=ChessGoals. That video strongly recommended transitioning to this Hanging Pawns video to see how to manage things once the defending side had been driven to the edge of the board.
Stockfish refuses to get into the Philidor position, even with analysis there isn't a rhythm to the technique, just raw calculation all the way to the corner and if you make an inaccuracy you have to make 8 more perfect moves just to get back. when you get to the philidor position its easy but it seems so hard to get there.
I able to push the enemy king to the backrank and rook to 2nd or 3rd rank but i dont know how to proceed, is veryhard, there a same position in rook sacrifices stalemate.
Great video Stjepan. Helpful as always. Do you think you could maybe cover the theory on the Black Knights Tango for d4 openings? Would be very much appreciated 🙏🙏
This is appreciated, but it is still quite incomplete, isn't it? In addition to the 3 root positions identified here, I think there are at least 10 more progressive positions needed (each with a few different subvariations) before attempting to practice a random start position against an engine.
man i’m 1300 having so much trouble winning queen vs rook . is it just too hard to do against an engine? should i stop trying to beat an engine? thought it was clearly winning but i just spent like 45 minutes and couldn’t even win 1
I'm trying to learn this but in the position at 13 mins and 9 seconds on the video stockfish does not go back to be, instead he starts checking the king, what to do then?
If the side with the queen has a pawn then just give the queen for the rook after making sure the pawn can be queened and it is an easy game. And if the side with rook has pawns i have seen a win for the queen even against rook and two pawns tho it would be terribly difficult to win if defended properly
I cant sleep obsessed with this ending. So far this is the best video about it. But still far from complete. I guess it too complicated for a short video
What you are playing is usually with other pieces together in conjuction with the play..this doesn't work because of this reason. the bigger play is been ignored. Misleading this .
I learnt an excellent end game idea here👌👍 #QUEENvsROOK What if my opponents also learnt from you 🤔😜 #3rdRankDEFENSE Thanks for the excellent content 🙏
I wish someone would simply play pierce checkmate I challenge on lichess and show how they beat stockfish 14. because it didnt just move the king when third rank defense, it checked my king after queen moved and then moved the rook away again so I can't fork and then beck together... I am stuck, can't move. All the excercises until this one where easy to do for a begginer. All of youtube videos are made by people predicting defensive moves. Where can I find someone mating computer? (says "mate in 18 if played perfectly")
none of this makes any sense. I'm sure if you already understand how it works, you understand it. This is not explained well for someone trying to learn how to checkmate with queen vs rook. The concepts are not clear at all, or rather how to achieve those concepts.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Please show us how to start in the middle of the board with queen vs rook vs stockfish and win in less than 50 moves.
Is it possible?
@@UnknownString123yes
@@UnknownString123 Even magnus cannot do that against stockfish, Against ding liren may be :)
It's so hard i played in lichess against stockfish and i can't win. It's even harder than checkmate with knight and bishop
I feel the same way.
checkmate with knight and bishop is easy because there is strategy which you can just learn and follow. rook vs queen is extremely hard because there is no repeatable strategy which will help you with getting philidorf position.
I also cannot mate :(, is there any video which teach that properly ?
it's not common knowledge, amateurs always learn the Philidor position, but reaching it against perfect defense is very difficult. There's a whole RUclips playlist about it I came across a while ago. ruclips.net/p/PLRdbvtd0qOHM5bTDgWrVyhCQrxtYnrfXV
It's interesting, but I wouldn't spend much time on it, people don't play the computer defense and the KQ v KR endgame has a low probability of appearing, still much higher probability than KNB v K.
It s as hard as check mating with two nights
Interactive endgame lesson starts on twitch in 3 minutes! Link in the description. Viewers will suggest a position for analysis!
You should maka a video on sicilian mengarini variation
Queen versus Rook endgame: You insane. One of the most complicated endgames, way more complicated than checkmate with bishop and knight.
Studying QvsR helped me a lot wining Rooks with my qeen in middlegames ;)
This queen vs rook endgame is a nightmare. I studied it some, didn't really understand how to do it, and then found myself in just such a game with me having the queen. My opponent blundered away his rook and I managed to win but had he put up perfect defense there is very little chance I could have executed that endgame correctly. And I STILL don't completely understand how to do it !
Can Magnus win against stockfish in 50 moves..
Derek Grimmell has an excellent course on Q v R.
The best I have seen on The Web.
Summary:
Queen
From the Philidor Position, all you have to do is find the fork.
Third Rank Defense: Put your queen away from the enemy king so that you can fork on the longer diagonal once the king and rook get seperated. Slowly force the King towards the corner to the Philidor Position (or just win on the way).
Second Rank Defense: Beware Stalemate while again forcing the king into the corner.
Don't blunder.
Rook
Try to get into the Third Rank Defense and just wait from there, stay resilient for 50 moves. If you can't, do the same from the Second Rank. Always try to keep King and Rook together, and lookout for blunders that draw or even win the game if white is careless.
@@alexis34270 Obviously he means win if white blunders the queen. Use your brain.
At 11:09 another way (after 1...Ra6) is 2 Qc4 Rf6 (...Rg6 also loses quickly after 3 Kb5+) 3Qc3 Rh6 (other moves lose quickly) 4 Kb5+ Kb7 5 Qg7+ fork. Other moves by Black also fall to forced forking sequences. For instance, after 4...Kb8 5 Qg3+ and there is a fork coming on g7.
I am so glad you did this video, I asked for one ages ago in the comments and people gave me grief as if I shouldn't have been asking
There is no straight forward method to solve queen vs rook endgame. I mean tackle any random position with perfect accuracy. The way to solve this is to reduce the initial position to next lowest distance to mate position. For example if the initial position is 10 moves to mate then the goal is to reduce it to mate in 9 moves position then to 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 and 1. If anyone interested to learn this step by step then check this ruclips.net/p/PLVQF5gqzqrR4wXJsFGCqnZlJZatPenapD. In this you'll find compilation of puzzles for each distance to mate position. Currently up to 5 added.
as if you know exacly what i need to lern next about the endgame. Thank you.
I was literally wanting to know about this exact endgame yesterday haha
Hi Stjepan, hi chess lovers! Queen vs Rook, what a nightmare! I tried to win it against Stockfish from random positions an guess what: I failed. It's not about basic checkmate, it is a full endgame, lots of things to know! Your explanation is a good example, but to really get through it I recommend Derek Grimmell and tons over tons of practice...nevertheless: The knowledege you spread is a HUGE GOODIE for us "normal" players!!! Thank you and stay healthy!
Thanks for your video! With some practice I have managed to play queen vs rook endgame.
lmao imagine the guy knows 3rd rank defense, you tryhard you manage to reach the 2nd rank defense, then you get tricked 16:11 and back to 3rd rank defense xD
This is definitely the best video on this topic by far.
Best rook Vs queen video imo, thnx!
Thanks for your videos! Very useful and well explained. I've been training on this endgame. One question: at 13:08 after King c6 what happen if black plays rook g6 ... I don't manage to figure it out !
I was going to ask the same. White doesn't win.
That's exactly what the tablebase says is best. And this is why learning this ending is so hard. Continuation:
1... Rg6+ 2. Kd7 Rg7+ 3. Ke8 Rg8+ 4. Kf7 Rc8 5. Ke7 Rc6 6. Kd7 Rh6 7. Qc7+ Ka8 8. Qf4 Rb6 9. Kc7 Rb7+ 10. Kc8... wins. Duh of course... sheesh.
If you try this practice on lichess with the queen against Stockfisch with the rook, I promise you, you will go insane mentally
Now add a pawn with the rook.
Referred by ‘chess goals’ to your video even though I found your video beforehand. They simplify how to get the King to the edge of the board.
13:10
why would the rook come back to b7 instead of checking on g6 and drawing?
Very clear and useful guide to an extremely complicated task. Thank you.
I'm playing the computer now, and this video covers everything except what the computer is playing. For example, at 17:25 after Qf6+, computer is going Kg8 and I'm lost lol
Hi @Seanohara
Did you get any answer for your question
For everyone interested in learning this notoriously difficult endgame in detail - I've made a study covering everything you need to know, including some exercises to help you on the way. lichess.org/study/ZqgEdqxj
I hope it'll be of use and that you'll gain something out of it! 😀
Thanks, really great video! I able to win stockfish L8 several times. But not always. So... I will practice again and try to use ideas from video.
Hi @HangingPawns
One question
At 17:26 what happens if the King goes to G8
16:48 stockfish plays both Re6 + Kd7 here...
At 17:33, how do I win if the opponent plays KG8?
Just failed to win this endgame up a queen, so here I am, thanks for the vids stephan
At 13:08 the rook dont go to b7 instead it comes to g6 to check our king and it keep chasing the king
Please help sir
Great practical video. ChessGoals sent me.
@hanging pawns - At 16:39 doesn't Re6+ allow the 3rd Rank Defense for Black?
yeah this is what engine plays but u still end up forking the rook with non obvious moves
17:27 what if Kg8 which is what stockfish does 100% of the time?
Amazing video!
May 2024 comment, I followed those rules of thumb and checkmated stockfish in less than 30 moves!!! Thanks a lot @Hanging Pawns
Nice video, appreciate the general principles. One question on the second rank defense (starting 15:44) - after 1. Qf5 Kd8 2. Qc5, Black has 2. ... Re6+. Doesn't this free Black up?
Thank you Sir. Lots of love from India
There is no straight forward method to solve queen vs rook endgame. I mean tackle any random position with perfect accuracy. The way to solve this is to reduce the initial position to next lowest distance to mate position. For example if the initial position is 10 moves to mate then the goal is to reduce it to mate in 9 moves position then to 8,7,6,5,4,3,2 and 1. If anyone interested to learn this step by step then check this ruclips.net/p/PLVQF5gqzqrR4wXJsFGCqnZlJZatPenapD. In this you'll find compilation of puzzles for each distance to mate position. Currently up to 5 added.
4y later 😅, but what if opponent after Qf6+ do Kg8 (insted of Ke8) - 17:30 👀
The best online coach.
I want you to focus on how to deal with rook checks after that queen f4 move
And here I was thinking this was an easy endgame. After I tried it in lichess against stockfish, I realized how tough this is.
Great video. Thank you!
I'm currently stuck on this endgame in lichess in the education tutorials.. I can only manage to draw a couple of ways. It's very hard to get the right geometry to fork the rook. I admit I am a noob, but this endgame ia killa vs the machine.
heard that an fm say that he also has trouble with that ruclips.net/video/g3XsaJ9fSc8/видео.html&ab_channel=ChesscomIndia 2:24. Does not necesseraly mean you are a noob.
THere is a RUclips as follows from Chess Goals which shows how to start with the defending side still in the middle of the board. URL ruclips.net/video/o44Wmbtz2Nw/видео.html&ab_channel=ChessGoals. That video strongly recommended transitioning to this Hanging Pawns video to see how to manage things once the defending side had been driven to the edge of the board.
Stockfish refuses to get into the Philidor position, even with analysis there isn't a rhythm to the technique, just raw calculation all the way to the corner and if you make an inaccuracy you have to make 8 more perfect moves just to get back. when you get to the philidor position its easy but it seems so hard to get there.
hi chess goals is recommended ur videos
so hard, but thanks for video
Chessgoals brought me here.
How to force black intothe 3rd or 2nd rank defence though?
I practiced bisop and knight endgames for a day and learnt that, but this one is so tough for me😭
16:42 "Ke8 is the only move." But Re6+ is also a move, and then what???
Correct timestamp: 16:39 If Re6+, then Kb7 and keep inching your king towards them.
Twitch stream?
@Unsound Chess thanks
I able to push the enemy king to the backrank and rook to 2nd or 3rd rank but i dont know how to proceed, is veryhard, there a same position in rook sacrifices stalemate.
Amazing work
Great video Stjepan. Helpful as always. Do you think you could maybe cover the theory on the Black Knights Tango for d4 openings? Would be very much appreciated 🙏🙏
If you need to know something, Stjepan is the man!
Ah this is a hard one.
Chess goal sent me here
Came after nepo vs magnus draw lol
The second example the rook can block the check right
Any video on queen rook Vs queen rook?
3:45 actually king b8 not a8
This is appreciated, but it is still quite incomplete, isn't it? In addition to the 3 root positions identified here, I think there are at least 10 more progressive positions needed (each with a few different subvariations) before attempting to practice a random start position against an engine.
man i’m 1300 having so much trouble winning queen vs rook . is it just too hard to do against an engine? should i stop trying to beat an engine? thought it was clearly winning but i just spent like 45 minutes and couldn’t even win 1
Chessgoals refered me to your video!
I'm trying to learn this but in the position at 13 mins and 9 seconds on the video stockfish does not go back to be, instead he starts checking the king, what to do then?
B7
Chess Goals sent me here. 😂
@ChessGoals referred me here
Watched the video and started with kings on opposite sides of the board, still took me 44 moves
Thanks 👍
Thanks - Garry Fang
How would Carlsen do vs Stockfish if he had Q ? .. and how would he do with R ?
With R he would melt
Magnus himself admitted he can't beat stockfish!
is it just a win for white if he has pawns on the board with the queen vs rook?
If the side with the queen has a pawn then just give the queen for the rook after making sure the pawn can be queened and it is an easy game. And if the side with rook has pawns i have seen a win for the queen even against rook and two pawns tho it would be terribly difficult to win if defended properly
Impossible for me. I can't even force the king to the side of the board, let alone the back rank.
hey please a series on Queens indian
At 13m09 Rb2 would be non-optimal, surely Rg6+ wastes more time. No?
Hi Steven
Thanks
It's not Steven. It's stjepan.
I cant sleep obsessed with this ending. So far this is the best video about it. But still far from complete. I guess it too complicated for a short video
What you are playing is usually with other pieces together in conjuction with the play..this doesn't work because of this reason. the bigger play is been ignored. Misleading this .
Thanks for the video ji....
I played with my coach and he had rook and i had queen but he manged to draw
Comming from ChessGoals
I learnt an excellent end game idea here👌👍 #QUEENvsROOK
What if my opponents also learnt from you 🤔😜 #3rdRankDEFENSE
Thanks for the excellent content 🙏
No #were harmed
@@sebastianshandy658
I couldn't understand... please explain it...
Can you beat him?: ruclips.net/user/shortssxg86-UdIkI?si=8DoH5dH8VA03dhZv
Who's here from Magnus vs Ian 🙋
Do we need chess board with pieces
Did a GM took almost 50 moves to win this final?
This is sad to me...
I am still trying...
3:47 not a fork
Nice video. But I still can't do it. I suck.
when you say lose the game you mean draw right?
You should collaborate with agadmator you're both from croatia it will be fun.
reffered by chess goals
I wish someone would simply play pierce checkmate I challenge on lichess and show how they beat stockfish 14. because it didnt just move the king when third rank defense, it checked my king after queen moved and then moved the rook away again so I can't fork and then beck together... I am stuck, can't move. All the excercises until this one where easy to do for a begginer. All of youtube videos are made by people predicting defensive moves. Where can I find someone mating computer? (says "mate in 18 if played perfectly")
So basically, queen and king is winning against rook and king
(If the player with the queen knows what they are doing)
ChessGoals
1.53K subscribers sent me here
ruclips.net/video/ApSckfOt43A/видео.html why, the king can be chased away? Kc6 is a horrible move as you suggest.
Great
Helpful
none of this makes any sense. I'm sure if you already understand how it works, you understand it. This is not explained well for someone trying to learn how to checkmate with queen vs rook. The concepts are not clear at all, or rather how to achieve those concepts.
You have to practice to make sense of it.
This video was NOT helpful. I don't know how to do #1 and #2 and therefore can't practice #3 and #4.
Truth is that this is just an incredibly difficult endgame.