I wanted to put more in the video, but it was already going long so there it is... As always, be sure to leave a like and a comment to boost this video in the algorithm!
Harley & Joker was the 1st time I learned what an abusive relationship was. Mad Love shocked me as a kid. Sad that nowadays she's just a walking hot topic ad
Yes, yes, YES! Harley was amazing as a walking cautionary tale for all of the reasons you said, as well as making the audience care about her. How many people have witnessed loved ones fall into destructive spirals, pull them out, and have their hopes crushed when said loved one goes back? Heck, Harley's story could symbolically fit the story of addicts as well.
Yes! Hard agree with all of this! I think that the true reason as to why Harley Quinn does not sell is because she doesn’t work as a solo character. Harley has had co-dependency issues as a core component of her character since the beginning, she is defined by her relationships to others- it makes no sense for her to be “independent”, she always just ends up glomming on to another character in her stories (Ivy, Batwoman etc) anyway. Part of the reason I hate the Harley + Ivy ship is because it should be a toxic, controlling relationship but it’s always portrayed as the “healthiest and most loving relationship in comics” (even when it is clearly not...) It has all the dysfunctional hallmarks of Harley’s relationship with Joker but because it’s a lesbian relationship it cannot be talked about in a negative way (in universe and out)
You absolutely nailed the issue with Harley and why I couldn't feel as invested in Harley's character in the tv series. It's important to have a character being a tale of caution rather than a positive role model. You can learn from people's mistakes too, hence why villains tend to lie and cheat their way to the top or let how society treats them determine the sort of terrible person they become instead of being a better person than society.
The only two camps who would be mad at this take, are people who most likely didn’t watch Batman the animated series to see the true origins of the character, or didn’t understand her purpose in that story, or those who don’t think characters embodying Harley’s problem should be represented in media. The bigger problem with Harley, which is actually not a unique problem to fiction in general is what do you do with a villain character when that character becomes popular in the mainstream - too popular and lucrative to dispatch, but also too popular to allow to be as villainous as they were originally conceived lest you invoke the wrath of society’s morality police.
Aye, the haircut looks great.. and yea, I agree Harley completely changed from the vintage 90s show to now. This is why Joker 2 will probably be great because Harley should be in an abusive, toxic relationship. Exactly how it's like the comics
Once again, a perfect analysis on the character. Harley was always meant to complement the Joker. After the New 52, when she was resurrected into a roller derby lesbian Deadpool ripoff, I just sort of stopped caring about the character, and DC Comics in general. Hopefully one day DC will see a resurgence in quality storytelling and art.. but I ain't exactly holding my breath.
Harley’s bi but ok. Idk I feel like people hating solely cause she’s with Ivy has some kind of bias because there’s been hints of those two for a long time.
I will admit i can see Harley in cycle of abuse only being broken by the power of a real support network in her close friends of Catwoman and Ivy. Cause thats such an important thing you need to get out of that kinda mind set and habit. And why abuser's keep their victims isolated. But the shipping between Ivy and Harley kinda runs it. Now it feels like she rebounded or traded one obsession for another. Rather than finding independence with friends. Its lame
Thanks for giving us your very thoughtful perspective on Harley! Original Harley has so much personality to explore. I would enjoy more backstory as well. Good job, Jesterbell.🎉
Another great Harley related video. I wish more people would talk about this subject. It's sad it seems like Joker 2 is the only hope right now, I really hope it ends up delivering.
Yeah I never got why they made her so uncomfortably raunchy in recent years. Before I got into Batman I thought she was just like this until I watched BTAS
It´s complicated for me...I also love her in the Arkham games. But her popularity in these games was the beginning of her end. DC saw her potential and her transformation started :/
Well, I liked this video and agreed with most of the points you made in it. The way Harley is portrayed in Deadly Duo is the best I have seen her in a long time. I would also like to point out that I feel Catwoman has been written wrong as well and she is also being given a disservice to her character just as Harley is currently.
again, a fantastic video which explains the whole messed situation with modern Harley. She is a really well known character, bust most of the people didnt buy her comics. They want her in a better relationship with Ivy and cry it out loud in social media, but I bet most of them dont read any comics. I must laugh when Jim Lee said that Harey Quinn is now on a level with DC´s trinity Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. Her "success" tells another story. Yes, DC puts her in many titles, but there is an oversaturation. In most of the stories, she doesn´t make sense. She is just there to be presented and that becomes very annoying. In the last years, just her stories with Joker becomes interesting. This year, Batman-Joker:Deadly Duo shows again how great she and Joker can work together. It was refereshing cause in most of the stories the last decade they fight each other and Harley whine´s how cruel her relationship with him was. But in this series, you get a little feel why this crazy dynamic still works
This video editing on point! 👌 Firstly, I completely agree 👍 Secondly, surprise that you didn't bring how DC seem to realize they made a mistake and try to have their cake and eat it too, by releasing multiple elsewhere story with Harley/Joker as well as by creating Punchline as a Harley replacement.
“Cake eating” seems to be a huge part of D.C. writers culture. Also Punchline sucks, D.C. has no idea of who or what she should be, she already quietly broke up with Joker and any chance of her becoming an interesting character has been completely squandered by Tini Howard’s awful “Gotham Game” mini series.
I’m not as deeply ingrained with Harley Quinn’s lore backstory that defines her beyond growing up with her debut in The Animated Series. But I can see where your coming from how she’s been adapted as of late. The whole I don’t need Joker thing is becoming tiring. Because you know. That’s the only way to be a strong female right? They lost there way what made Harley so special compared to the early years for sure. She is definitely lacking something despite the intentions.
Another person ripping into Suicide Squad and blaming it for ongoing problems? Good. I didn't go to movies often back then and it was one of the shittiest films I've paid money to see.
Great video I get what you mean about the darker ending having a more meaningful impact such as the film Se7en(it’s one of my favorite films but it’s very disturbing so not for the weak of stomachs) also I feel that another problem is withh DC making Harley one of their biggest characters(I liked her in BTAS but I think Characters like Nightwing or Wally West deserve more of a push)! Also nice haircut(I’m actually being serious it suits you, Jester)
Oh wow, you really GET it! Absolutely spot on analysis of what went wrong. I REALLY dislike the Harley and Ivy relationship push. I really feel like it's a hollow gimmick following the frankly nauseating current trend of "girl power" "girl boss" "strong woman needs no man" "the force is female" that resulted in the leaky trashbag liquid that puddled into "super Mecha galadriel" "the ginger plank of wood from the Willow series" "the Shrek spinoff where Fiona is a lawyer in the big city" ECT ECT. In short...it sucks and isnt a realistic or even an interesting story to explore. Sadly Harley is becoming another awesome character that is being squandered. God help us all if the rumors of live action "Metroid" with...Brie Larson is true. Anyways....damn good video. So glad I stumbled onto your channel
Appreciate you explaining Harley. Would it be better to tell her story and just give it a resolution and end her character, in the comics that is? I don’t think live action or animation can do her story justice. And when I say end her character I don’t mean kill her off, but give her a somewhat happy or at least hopeful ending.
It would be better to keep exploring and evolving her story with Joker involved, not feel that we have to change it or end it just because it makes people feel sad which is the whole point
@@realjesterbell oh no, I don’t mean her story should come to a conclusion because people don’t want to feel sad about her situation. I think if writer after writer can’t come up with a good story for Harley, instead of getting bad stories, retire her. You could always come back to her if someone can come up with a great adventure for her.
I have saved so much money over the years owning the animated batman on dvd. Every time i see a new men in tights movie come out, i ask "could this compare to my dvd set?" I have saved enough to go on a dozen vacations skipping dc and marvel movies. I even saw a few of them for free via my local library dvd section and eventually decided that after i saved money, i needed to save time in my life for real world going out pursuits. Never consume "product" to see how bad it is. Also, never see a movie based on booming box office. Turns out millions of adam sandler, madea, etc. fans ARE wrong
To add to what you already said in this video about Harley in the movies, I think another problem is that it seems Margot Robbie doesn't really take the character as seriously as she claims. Or at least, it seems that way from the way they keep writing her iteration of the character. Based on "The Suicide Squad", directed by James Gunn, and "Birds of Prey", it seems like they're trying to make her character more of a less interesting version of deadpool. Don't get me wrong, you can do a comedic anti hero in media that occasionally breaks the fourth wall, but it doesn't work for Harley Quinn for many of the reasons you already stated. I think as long as the Joker 2 film still allows them the same creative freedom as last time, I think it'll do well mainly because based on what we saw of the last one, it didn't seem like they were out to try to make the film as commercially successful as possible. Rather just tell a unique story with the character. Whereas with the DCEU, you could clearly tell they were trying to be commercially as successful as possible, with little to no effort put into it. That's the key difference. Assuming the Joker 2 has that same level of freedom to just tell a good story, without being tied to what works commercially, then I think it'll do good.
I like Harley’s relationship with Ivy in the Harley Quinn show (I haven’t seen it in a while) and I feel like Harley’s separation from the joker should be more of a slow burn- like I don’t see her hating him and it being hard to really shake his identity off of her. I don’t know about new comics but older content all the toxic things Ivy does to Harley is slapstick humor. I watched this video on their relationship and I just really liked it that’s all. I just feel like maybe if it was written by her original creators they would get the idea of how to write that character better.
It still gets to me DC was so concerned about Batman going down on Catwoman but is fine with Harley being so raunchy and still marketed towards young girls. Harley/Ivy itself feels so romanticized despite the Harley/Joker parallels, partly for its owm popularity and representation points which leads down to another rabbit hole. Most times both the characters feel like they just exist for ship pandering which is a disservice to them. And really, of DC did a redeemed Harley right she wouldnt be "Harley Quinn" anymore but shes more marketable that way. I keep being reminded of the BTAS epsisode "Harley's Holiday" how Harley really ddi try to be "normal" as Harleen but sadly after a misunderstanding went back to Harley Quinn whe she felt threatened. Now, she's DC's female Deadpool and the watered down, random meta humor Deadpool at that.
This was a very well done video and I agreed with just about everything you said. However, regarding the animated series that someone that I enjoy but, it's also because for me it's not something to truly take seriously or throw it into continuity. I just want to see how crazy they can get.
I wish more people understood Harley because I remember watching a video about comparing her to Jinx (this is not me hating on Jinx bty) but they used Harley's Suicide Squad example and versions after that. It made me sad watching how they don't really understand her character and how she is, which I can't really blame them for because how pushed this new version of Harley is.
Harley was better off with the Joker because I’m gonna be honest. They both are abuse each other but they are good for each other. They have been dysfunctional but they have always taken care of each other. Harley being with Ivy is the most toxic relationship I’ve ever seen and she’s not a hero. Harley should be with The Joker and if they were smart enough. It would Harley Vs Batman Vs Joker dynamic to build her up.
I enjoyed that harley could be redeemed on record in the eyes of the justice system and the only person that gave her the benefit of the doubt and made her believe in that was Conway batman.
I thought having ivy and harley be a thing was so interesting and u can see that their relationship had alot of depth back in the 90s but now theyve tried to make her a lgbt icon and just made them this perfect relationship which noone finds interesting
I generally agree although I do really like the HBO series, it was a fun take though tbf they were definitely floundering at the end too, her other movie roles were OK as 1 offs but not great launching pads, however that was consistent with all of DCEU since that concept was started, Superman: MoS is a seemingly interesting take until you realize it completely ignored half his characters main conceit, that the nurture of his American heartland parents completely changed his nature to being the best of humanity despite not truly being "of" humanity, that you disagree with the conceit doesn't really matter it is literally half of his backstory and anything changing that should never have been mainline canon. Likewise "old" Batman starting the justice league was also a mistake, it left him no time to explore friendly relations with Superman before facing him and unless they were willing to go Batman Beyond was a horrible place to start any franchise WW at least had a decent start but her ultimate direction post her first movie was.... A choice of debatable value. I didn't get much farther into the newer DCEU after that because it seemed pointless, I heard the Snyder cut was good but it is hard to carve more time out to watch a longer movie that was so bad the first time.
Harley has been tiresom for a long time now. She was and always will be a supporting character and the Joker's girlfriend. She is NOT a main character, she is not a anti hero, she is not a girlboss, she is not DC's Deadpool with boobs. She is a tragic figure trying to be remarketed as a obnoxious roll model for little girls. Making her bi or gay is just more of the same lazy "modern day audiences" pandering that just doesn't work but they keep trying anyway. They need to learn to cut losses instead of insisting that the public find her cool and buy her merchandise. But her merch is not selling, her movies are flops, no one reads her books, and her cartoon is only limping by because it is more parody than anything else. Her AND the Joker need to put on hiatus for a few years.
Who ever did that art of Harley and The Joker that you used in your thumbnail messed up. One of Harley's eyes is way bigger then the other. Anyways, great video. Edit: I could never cut my long hair, yes I'm a guy with long hair. It gets trimmed every now and then.
The Harley show on HBO is just a very diluted version of what they had with Venture Bros. If you like Harley, you will love The Venture Bros and will never see Harley show the same way again.
The way I see it, I think the problem lies not just in the fact that we can't have a vulnerable woman be popular, but that Harley was never designed to be a long-lasting character. If I were to have Harley break up with Joker, I'd probably have her start to grow attached to the man who helps her time and time again: Batman. Harley's Holiday is my favorite Harley story because it showcases that Harley is capable of reforming, but unless she has someone there to help her stay on that path she'll just fall back into being a villain. Batman has been there for her, always willing to help her despite the fact that she has helped his worst enemy on many occasions. He never gives up on her because he is a good man who wants to help. I dunno, that's my take anyway. I bet this comment's just gonna get lost in the shuffle.
DC has been poorly run since Jenette Kahn stepped down. Was Kahn's era at DC perfect? no, but she could see why DC hadn't been working for a lot of people and raised its profile considerably. Also as far I can remember she never tried to force the audience to like something, she'd let people try something but if it didn't work then it was "The Customer has spoken", and that was that. From Didio onwards DC has tried to force things into certain directions, occasionally it worked, but think it mostly hasn't and Forcing Harley into the roles they've been pushing her in is a big example of it NOT Working. Did some fans leave because of decisions made at DC on Kahn's watch? sure. But I'd argue she got more people interested than left. In The End She left the company better than she found it and it's been less successful without her
Really appreciate your videos on comics and movies, there's a lot of people in this space who are critical of all things Disney, Marvel, DC, etc. but I feel like they are turbo grifters that lack the earnestness that comes across here and like to sit in panels where they circlejerk over, for example, who hates Kathleen Kennedy more. There's also a thinly veiled socio-political undercurrent for these people which is thankfully lacking in your content.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I wanted to put more in the video, but it was already going long so there it is...
As always, be sure to leave a like and a comment to boost this video in the algorithm!
Don't ever worry about length. You say what you got say. We're always going to watch. 😊
I’ve seen four hour critiques so don’t worry about length!
@@henrygambles3652 Same and sometimes it's better.
@@ClassicHarleyQuinn Yeah Exactly plus sometimes you might find more to say which could be very interesting
Harley & Joker was the 1st time I learned what an abusive relationship was. Mad Love shocked me as a kid. Sad that nowadays she's just a walking hot topic ad
Let the cartoon be happy
Yes, yes, YES! Harley was amazing as a walking cautionary tale for all of the reasons you said, as well as making the audience care about her. How many people have witnessed loved ones fall into destructive spirals, pull them out, and have their hopes crushed when said loved one goes back? Heck, Harley's story could symbolically fit the story of addicts as well.
Yes! Hard agree with all of this! I think that the true reason as to why Harley Quinn does not sell is because she doesn’t work as a solo character. Harley has had co-dependency issues as a core component of her character since the beginning, she is defined by her relationships to others- it makes no sense for her to be “independent”, she always just ends up glomming on to another character in her stories (Ivy, Batwoman etc) anyway.
Part of the reason I hate the Harley + Ivy ship is because it should be a toxic, controlling relationship but it’s always portrayed as the “healthiest and most loving relationship in comics” (even when it is clearly not...) It has all the dysfunctional hallmarks of Harley’s relationship with Joker but because it’s a lesbian relationship it cannot be talked about in a negative way (in universe and out)
You are so SO right!! What I wouldn't give for DC to hire you for anything Harley related 😭
Ikr💯
What a great thumbnail and title to make people want to click. And the commentary doesn’t disappoint. Good job!
Thank you
Probably the best video on Harley I’ve seen. Fantastic job, Jes 🙏🏼
You absolutely nailed the issue with Harley and why I couldn't feel as invested in Harley's character in the tv series. It's important to have a character being a tale of caution rather than a positive role model. You can learn from people's mistakes too, hence why villains tend to lie and cheat their way to the top or let how society treats them determine the sort of terrible person they become instead of being a better person than society.
The only two camps who would be mad at this take, are people who most likely didn’t watch Batman the animated series to see the true origins of the character, or didn’t understand her purpose in that story, or those who don’t think characters embodying Harley’s problem should be represented in media.
The bigger problem with Harley, which is actually not a unique problem to fiction in general is what do you do with a villain character when that character becomes popular in the mainstream - too popular and lucrative to dispatch, but also too popular to allow to be as villainous as they were originally conceived lest you invoke the wrath of society’s morality police.
Aye, the haircut looks great.. and yea, I agree Harley completely changed from the vintage 90s show to now. This is why Joker 2 will probably be great because Harley should be in an abusive, toxic relationship. Exactly how it's like the comics
Once again, a perfect analysis on the character. Harley was always meant to complement the Joker. After the New 52, when she was resurrected into a roller derby lesbian Deadpool ripoff, I just sort of stopped caring about the character, and DC Comics in general. Hopefully one day DC will see a resurgence in quality storytelling and art.. but I ain't exactly holding my breath.
💯
Harley’s bi but ok. Idk I feel like people hating solely cause she’s with Ivy has some kind of bias because there’s been hints of those two for a long time.
This is my favorite video about Harley and Joker so far! What you said is so true
I will admit i can see Harley in cycle of abuse only being broken by the power of a real support network in her close friends of Catwoman and Ivy. Cause thats such an important thing you need to get out of that kinda mind set and habit. And why abuser's keep their victims isolated. But the shipping between Ivy and Harley kinda runs it. Now it feels like she rebounded or traded one obsession for another. Rather than finding independence with friends. Its lame
Thanks for giving us your very thoughtful perspective on Harley! Original Harley has so much personality to explore. I would enjoy more backstory as well. Good job, Jesterbell.🎉
Another great Harley related video. I wish more people would talk about this subject. It's sad it seems like Joker 2 is the only hope right now, I really hope it ends up delivering.
Yeah I never got why they made her so uncomfortably raunchy in recent years. Before I got into Batman I thought she was just like this until I watched BTAS
To quote General Iroh, "AND THEN WHAT?????!!!! YOU NEVER THINK THESE THINGS THHHHRRROUGH!"
*Totally agreed* I found Harley very similarly to the way you did and fell in love with her for those same reasons. This video was amazing!👏
1:35 same!💯
Thanks for watching!
@@realjesterbell anytime❤️
Personally I think the best version of Harley Quin is in the Arkham games.
I love her there! Good taste!
It´s complicated for me...I also love her in the Arkham games. But her popularity in these games was the beginning of her end. DC saw her potential and her transformation started :/
Their my favorite versions after classic👏
Well, I liked this video and agreed with most of the points you made in it. The way Harley is portrayed in Deadly Duo is the best I have seen her in a long time. I would also like to point out that I feel Catwoman has been written wrong as well and she is also being given a disservice to her character just as Harley is currently.
I'm not mad frankly I agree with you. Harley Quinn has been really boring post Suicide Squad with few exceptions
💯
Your hair looks really good!
again, a fantastic video which explains the whole messed situation with modern Harley. She is a really well known character, bust most of the people didnt buy her comics. They want her in a better relationship with Ivy and cry it out loud in social media, but I bet most of them dont read any comics. I must laugh when Jim Lee said that Harey Quinn is now on a level with DC´s trinity Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. Her "success" tells another story. Yes, DC puts her in many titles, but there is an oversaturation. In most of the stories, she doesn´t make sense. She is just there to be presented and that becomes very annoying. In the last years, just her stories with Joker becomes interesting. This year, Batman-Joker:Deadly Duo shows again how great she and Joker can work together. It was refereshing cause in most of the stories the last decade they fight each other and Harley whine´s how cruel her relationship with him was. But in this series, you get a little feel why this crazy dynamic still works
💯
This video editing on point! 👌
Firstly, I completely agree 👍
Secondly, surprise that you didn't bring how DC seem to realize they made a mistake and try to have their cake and eat it too, by releasing multiple elsewhere story with Harley/Joker as well as by creating Punchline as a Harley replacement.
I would’ve but the video was becoming too long and complicated and I had to cut things out. Also punchline broke up with joker too
@@realjesterbell SO SHE WAS A POINTLESS CHARACTER!! 🤬
@@Harleyxjokerforever They also keep leaving her by the Waste side
“Cake eating” seems to be a huge part of D.C. writers culture. Also Punchline sucks, D.C. has no idea of who or what she should be, she already quietly broke up with Joker and any chance of her becoming an interesting character has been completely squandered by Tini Howard’s awful “Gotham Game” mini series.
@@Harleyxjokerforever ikr exactly
I’m not as deeply ingrained with Harley Quinn’s lore backstory that defines her beyond growing up with her debut in The Animated Series. But I can see where your coming from how she’s been adapted as of late. The whole I don’t need Joker thing is becoming tiring. Because you know. That’s the only way to be a strong female right? They lost there way what made Harley so special compared to the early years for sure. She is definitely lacking something despite the intentions.
The comics won't admit that Harley and Ivy are toxic because they are sapphic. Sapphic sells.
Spot on.. 👍🏻
Awesome show thanks.
OG Harley is Solid Gold all the rest are just wanta be’s!
Thanks for watching!
Am I going to be beaten to death for getting into Marvel and DC?
By Marvel and Dc, yes
Another person ripping into Suicide Squad and blaming it for ongoing problems?
Good. I didn't go to movies often back then and it was one of the shittiest films I've paid money to see.
It was cancer.
💯
Great video I get what you mean about the darker ending having a more meaningful impact such as the film Se7en(it’s one of my favorite films but it’s very disturbing so not for the weak of stomachs) also I feel that another problem is withh DC making Harley one of their biggest characters(I liked her in BTAS but I think Characters like Nightwing or Wally West deserve more of a push)! Also nice haircut(I’m actually being serious it suits you, Jester)
Very well said.
Harley Quinn is to The Joker what an Umbrella is to The Penguin. He's not the same without her, and she loses her purpose without him.
Oh wow, you really GET it! Absolutely spot on analysis of what went wrong. I REALLY dislike the Harley and Ivy relationship push. I really feel like it's a hollow gimmick following the frankly nauseating current trend of "girl power" "girl boss" "strong woman needs no man" "the force is female" that resulted in the leaky trashbag liquid that puddled into "super Mecha galadriel" "the ginger plank of wood from the Willow series" "the Shrek spinoff where Fiona is a lawyer in the big city" ECT ECT. In short...it sucks and isnt a realistic or even an interesting story to explore. Sadly Harley is becoming another awesome character that is being squandered. God help us all if the rumors of live action "Metroid" with...Brie Larson is true.
Anyways....damn good video. So glad I stumbled onto your channel
Agreed
Appreciate you explaining Harley. Would it be better to tell her story and just give it a resolution and end her character, in the comics that is? I don’t think live action or animation can do her story justice. And when I say end her character I don’t mean kill her off, but give her a somewhat happy or at least hopeful ending.
It would be better to keep exploring and evolving her story with Joker involved, not feel that we have to change it or end it just because it makes people feel sad which is the whole point
@@realjesterbell oh no, I don’t mean her story should come to a conclusion because people don’t want to feel sad about her situation. I think if writer after writer can’t come up with a good story for Harley, instead of getting bad stories, retire her. You could always come back to her if someone can come up with a great adventure for her.
I have saved so much money over the years owning the animated batman on dvd. Every time i see a new men in tights movie come out, i ask "could this compare to my dvd set?" I have saved enough to go on a dozen vacations skipping dc and marvel movies. I even saw a few of them for free via my local library dvd section and eventually decided that after i saved money, i needed to save time in my life for real world going out pursuits. Never consume "product" to see how bad it is. Also, never see a movie based on booming box office. Turns out millions of adam sandler, madea, etc. fans ARE wrong
To add to what you already said in this video about Harley in the movies, I think another problem is that it seems Margot Robbie doesn't really take the character as seriously as she claims. Or at least, it seems that way from the way they keep writing her iteration of the character. Based on "The Suicide Squad", directed by James Gunn, and "Birds of Prey", it seems like they're trying to make her character more of a less interesting version of deadpool. Don't get me wrong, you can do a comedic anti hero in media that occasionally breaks the fourth wall, but it doesn't work for Harley Quinn for many of the reasons you already stated.
I think as long as the Joker 2 film still allows them the same creative freedom as last time, I think it'll do well mainly because based on what we saw of the last one, it didn't seem like they were out to try to make the film as commercially successful as possible. Rather just tell a unique story with the character. Whereas with the DCEU, you could clearly tell they were trying to be commercially as successful as possible, with little to no effort put into it. That's the key difference. Assuming the Joker 2 has that same level of freedom to just tell a good story, without being tied to what works commercially, then I think it'll do good.
The Jester of the day is... Prank, from The Batman (2004) animated series!
I like Harley’s relationship with Ivy in the Harley Quinn show (I haven’t seen it in a while) and I feel like Harley’s separation from the joker should be more of a slow burn- like I don’t see her hating him and it being hard to really shake his identity off of her.
I don’t know about new comics but older content all the toxic things Ivy does to Harley is slapstick humor. I watched this video on their relationship and I just really liked it that’s all. I just feel like maybe if it was written by her original creators they would get the idea of how to write that character better.
It still gets to me DC was so concerned about Batman going down on Catwoman but is fine with Harley being so raunchy and still marketed towards young girls. Harley/Ivy itself feels so romanticized despite the Harley/Joker parallels, partly for its owm popularity and representation points which leads down to another rabbit hole. Most times both the characters feel like they just exist for ship pandering which is a disservice to them.
And really, of DC did a redeemed Harley right she wouldnt be "Harley Quinn" anymore but shes more marketable that way. I keep being reminded of the BTAS epsisode "Harley's Holiday" how Harley really ddi try to be "normal" as Harleen but sadly after a misunderstanding went back to Harley Quinn whe she felt threatened. Now, she's DC's female Deadpool and the watered down, random meta humor Deadpool at that.
Facts💯
Okay algorithm.. I like this shit
thank you!
Animated series harley best harley
This was a very well done video and I agreed with just about everything you said. However, regarding the animated series that someone that I enjoy but, it's also because for me it's not something to truly take seriously or throw it into continuity. I just want to see how crazy they can get.
It's funny how this leads to my biggest DC or Batman unpopular opinion: I don't like Poison Ivy as a character.
Also if you want a good Mulan remake I heard Rise of the Warrior was good. Its a chinease forigen film
I don't want to say this in public, because then it will never happen, but there is a way to solve this problem: make Lucy canon.
I wish more people understood Harley because I remember watching a video about comparing her to Jinx (this is not me hating on Jinx bty) but they used Harley's Suicide Squad example and versions after that. It made me sad watching how they don't really understand her character and how she is, which I can't really blame them for because how pushed this new version of Harley is.
Same and agreed👏
Harley was better off with the Joker because I’m gonna be honest. They both are abuse each other but they are good for each other. They have been dysfunctional but they have always taken care of each other. Harley being with Ivy is the most toxic relationship I’ve ever seen and she’s not a hero. Harley should be with The Joker and if they were smart enough. It would Harley Vs Batman Vs Joker dynamic to build her up.
💯
I enjoyed that harley could be redeemed on record in the eyes of the justice system and the only person that gave her the benefit of the doubt and made her believe in that was Conway batman.
4:31 What show is this?
I thought having ivy and harley be a thing was so interesting and u can see that their relationship had alot of depth back in the 90s but now theyve tried to make her a lgbt icon and just made them this perfect relationship which noone finds interesting
I generally agree although I do really like the HBO series, it was a fun take though tbf they were definitely floundering at the end too, her other movie roles were OK as 1 offs but not great launching pads, however that was consistent with all of DCEU since that concept was started, Superman: MoS is a seemingly interesting take until you realize it completely ignored half his characters main conceit, that the nurture of his American heartland parents completely changed his nature to being the best of humanity despite not truly being "of" humanity, that you disagree with the conceit doesn't really matter it is literally half of his backstory and anything changing that should never have been mainline canon.
Likewise "old" Batman starting the justice league was also a mistake, it left him no time to explore friendly relations with Superman before facing him and unless they were willing to go Batman Beyond was a horrible place to start any franchise WW at least had a decent start but her ultimate direction post her first movie was.... A choice of debatable value. I didn't get much farther into the newer DCEU after that because it seemed pointless, I heard the Snyder cut was good but it is hard to carve more time out to watch a longer movie that was so bad the first time.
Harley has been tiresom for a long time now. She was and always will be a supporting character and the Joker's girlfriend. She is NOT a main character, she is not a anti hero, she is not a girlboss, she is not DC's Deadpool with boobs. She is a tragic figure trying to be remarketed as a obnoxious roll model for little girls. Making her bi or gay is just more of the same lazy "modern day audiences" pandering that just doesn't work but they keep trying anyway. They need to learn to cut losses instead of insisting that the public find her cool and buy her merchandise. But her merch is not selling, her movies are flops, no one reads her books, and her cartoon is only limping by because it is more parody than anything else. Her AND the Joker need to put on hiatus for a few years.
Who ever did that art of Harley and The Joker that you used in your thumbnail messed up. One of Harley's eyes is way bigger then the other.
Anyways, great video.
Edit: I could never cut my long hair, yes I'm a guy with long hair. It gets trimmed every now and then.
It’s actually just how the picture was distorted for the thumbnail, Marc Silverstri does not miss with his art!
@@realjesterbell Now that makes sense. You're right Marc does not miss.
The Harley show on HBO is just a very diluted version of what they had with Venture Bros. If you like Harley, you will love The Venture Bros and will never see Harley show the same way again.
The way I see it, I think the problem lies not just in the fact that we can't have a vulnerable woman be popular, but that Harley was never designed to be a long-lasting character.
If I were to have Harley break up with Joker, I'd probably have her start to grow attached to the man who helps her time and time again: Batman.
Harley's Holiday is my favorite Harley story because it showcases that Harley is capable of reforming, but unless she has someone there to help her stay on that path she'll just fall back into being a villain.
Batman has been there for her, always willing to help her despite the fact that she has helped his worst enemy on many occasions. He never gives up on her because he is a good man who wants to help.
I dunno, that's my take anyway. I bet this comment's just gonna get lost in the shuffle.
harley is awful in everyway.
You’ve come to the wrong channel
DC has been poorly run since Jenette Kahn stepped down. Was Kahn's era at DC perfect? no, but she could see why DC hadn't been working for a lot of people and raised its profile considerably. Also as far I can remember she never tried to force the audience to like something, she'd let people try something but if it didn't work then it was "The Customer has spoken", and that was that. From Didio onwards DC has tried to force things into certain directions, occasionally it worked, but think it mostly hasn't and Forcing Harley into the roles they've been pushing her in is a big example of it NOT Working. Did some fans leave because of decisions made at DC on Kahn's watch? sure. But I'd argue she got more people interested than left. In The End She left the company better than she found it and it's been less successful without her
Harley Quinn the series is good, at least season one. i am not sure if there is a season 2
I liked season 1 for what it was but that's it
Really appreciate your videos on comics and movies, there's a lot of people in this space who are critical of all things Disney, Marvel, DC, etc. but I feel like they are turbo grifters that lack the earnestness that comes across here and like to sit in panels where they circlejerk over, for example, who hates Kathleen Kennedy more. There's also a thinly veiled socio-political undercurrent for these people which is thankfully lacking in your content.
This is great to hear! I really strive to be honest on my content. Thanks for watching!
I will subscribe to the channel and ring the bell for notifications
Thank you
you look like joaquin phoenix
Thanks, I think
@@realjesterbell mean personally speaking I think the Shorter Hair suits you
@realjesterbell >>> Not mad at all.