Cheap Tilt-Over Tower Ideas for Ham Radio Antenna
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- Tilt over towers can be very dangerous in the hands of inexperienced users - however I have experience of a falling derrick system to raise and lower an antenna mast. Of course, you can use self-supporting towers, hydraulic towers, wind-up towers, trailer towers etc but I need something that COULD be removed with very few moving parts and is fairly economical. This is my plan. What do you think? Callum.
Наука
Sounds like a good start. Finding all of those clever bits that make fabrication easy is the key.
The biggest problem in home brew is sourcing suitable components, that's why your verticals sell so well , everything in a kit with some instructions, which allows people to build something themselves, that actually fits together, and works. Very satisfying. 🙂
Good point!
Looking forward to seeing this go up in the new space.
Here in the US a lot of people buy extremely long telephone poles from the power company contractors. They're made out of pressure treated wood. Of course, it doesn't fold down, but you can have a ladder added to the side of it with saftey wire for climbing.
How in the world would you raise a "telephone pole' without all the same gear the power companies use?
@@MrTommy001 Only need a digger.. Just makes more mess.
@@MrTommy001 Its quite common. No guy wires, the wind doesn't matter. It only takes a winch truck to put it up. Not that hard.
@@MrTommy001
The companies that sell them also deliver and set up the pole.
We have 40ft poles here. They need a 7-ft foundation and I can't tilt it over.
I love this idea, thanks for bringing this to my attention. I may use this type of mast at my new QTH!!!!
Hang on John.. I have a few issues to crack yet to make this super reliable..!
Going to be a great project. Looking forward to the great videos' on this and more. Just keep in mind the strong winds you get . The outher thing to watch for is ground wire length . Any resonant length above ground may affect the radiation pattern. also choke balen on coax will help with common mode currents on the shield of coax. With coax going up in the air ,it may pick up RF from outher antenna near buy. The length of coax in the air will also be a factor as well. going to be a lot of fun. Cheers from USA !
Hi Cal,
I think you have it all sorted. Just need to start acquiring the equipment. A worthy project. You and the family stay safe. 73 WJ3U
Thanks Don.. Just waiting for the fence to go in..
I built a 55 and a 75 foot tilt over 25G Rohn. I don't do heights, and I can lower them both by myself. I have lowered a few 80 foot windmill towers for people that have the falling derrick style. My 75 foot is in about 3 yards of concrete ( which you can't do ) and my 55 foot is mounted on a steel shipping container not in the ground ( which you don't have ). I designed mine using a truss mounted winch incorporating my tilt over hinge. The 75 foot has a 20 foot tall truss for the cable to pull from, and my 55 foot has a 16 foot tall truss to pull from.
Nice!
Cheap and tower, never thought those went together.
Great you are back!
Woo-Hoo!
Filling that extra plot real fast!
a long time ago 30+ years I went to a local rally and they had an antenna test range set up for VHF. You could book a slot, connect up your vhf beam and then get a 360 degree plot on paper. They used a variation of the falling derrick system. There was the main vertical scaffold pole, and at the base another pole (the derrick arm) pointing away from the main pole. What they then did was add some more poles from the top of the derrick out at 45 degrees or so which connected to another couple of poles attached to the bottom of the main upright. Another two poles were used as "guys" to the top of the main pole.
Hard to describe in words, but another description, it was a triangle on the ground half way along one side was the main upright, another pole from the apex to the bottom of the main pole, then from each corner of the triangle to the top of the main pole. The triangle on the ground acted as a pivot and counter balance as the pole was winched up and down. It seemed to work very well.
Andy
Yeah, I've got it..
Large plastic buckets filled with concrete are a great support and easier to remove. Add some u shaped iron as hooks for easy removal when the time comes. I would use fibreglass as a coupler between metal poles. Not sure why you shy away from a regular tower if you are going to use so many guy wires, if you are going to use 12 guy wires to stabilise the pole you can use the same for a tower. Only difference is that you can't bring down a tower as easy as the pole.
I like the idea of the burried hooks.. John's digger could get them out when the time comes. I like it!
Exactly what I was going to recommend. I dig a hole that the 5 gallon bucket will fit in.
For guy anchors I use 18" x 18" x 8" concrete blocks I make in a reusable 2x8 form with an eye bolt with a bent shaft sticking out the top. They weigh about 200 pounds and just sit on the ground and I move them where I want them with my tractor and a chain. I also have some smaller ones made in 16" round sonotube that are lighter (about 120 pounds) and I can roll them around on their side to move them.
Oi! Good to see ya, mate!
Cody!
I'm dreaming of a quad antenna, but I can't afford a tower. So this is a great solution and I would buy it right now.
Silent Keys, Gene Welch and Ron Adams both hand quad antennas, and what they found is that best results were around 10ft above ground or 100ft. Both used gamma-matches to tune each element, using a fifth pole mounted vertically. My old history teacher also used a quad, but found that he had best results with the antenna 6-8ft above the ground.
Erm.. Well OK!
We used the same system for NFD at a location on a farm. 2 scaffold poles plus rotator plus 2 meter aerial while not heavy was difficult to raise without a ratchet winch. And we were/are getting on a bit. You no doubt had the same issue of the lever over the pivot point effect and the shifting of the weight from horizontal to vertical and visa versa. Not something I wanted to repeat in my back yard as from a safety factor needed assistance from others. You have the luxury of a field but I assume you want a one man band to erect. As usual you will work through it- All the best Mike
Yes.. there's a point where on lifting up, it starts to want to sit up with a bang.. I up thinking up a solution to that. Same with getting it down again once it's up. In the event the wind is blowing the wrong way, it'll need winched back down for the first few degrees until the top weight settles. Marlow to 16mm shock-cord and I thinking of using a number of those for the shock problem - still thinking up the reverse lowering problem..
@@DXCommanderHQ Yes I agree and you have the experience of using this system previously. The counter balance, in my opinion, is crucial to get right. It’s great fun to work on and solve. At my previous QTH I used a mast against the rear wall and a winch system for raising and lowering , it always got me the effort needed and crucial points then nothing. Happy that the winches were ratcheted as now with age and strength diminishing I would run into trouble. DX Commander to be permanently deployed at my new QTH.
An ideea, put a hinge at the joining spot of the mast, right at the middle of it. You will have ropes also there, right below the hinge. First, easy loosen the one on the top, only the upper part above the hinge will go down. After this is down, loose the rope that is connected right below the the hinge and lower also this part. This will also minimize the weight of the base, the lateral forces for rise and lower the mast will be splittes with the anchoring ropes. I think will work, you will have a 2 pieces pole with a hinge between, rise and lower on stages. I have done my best to explain :)
Is not what i have tryed to explain but search a "hinged pole" on google and remove the part of top pole below the hinge...
Well, yes.. Maybe - but I happen to know my way works.. We'll see! Watch the space!
Jolly nice video Callum. 👍 I got a tilt-over tower without asking for one.....someone cut my guy wires! ☹
Oh no!
I built mine like a trebuchet. It has a pivot point at 8 feet between 2 poles. The tower has a weighted base so one person can lower it with little effort.
Nice
If you can do a lattice tower, the width (or rather pour depth) of the pad can be minimized by angled pile rods. There are high strength concretes and excellent bonding products to supplement your physical connection of piles to the structure within the concrete. A H shaped form with 45 degree piles driven down would be something you could remove yourself with a hired excavator and a pneumatic hammer if need be. This is obviously dependent on your local geology.
I appreciate your idea.. Trouble with all the UK lattice towers are that they are all 20 foot lengths (well, almost all of them!) that nest.. So then I'm into winching AND guys.. In the USA, there's seems to be towers that bolt together.. We don't have that at a price..
I don't know about the construction, but you're gonna need another plot soon!😂👍📡
Your easiest option is a Clark scam 12 Millitary pneumatic mast with the leg kit.
Mark
It's easy, yes. Cost and availability is another thing.
@@DXCommanderHQ they cost around £500 and are available.
You appear to be on the right track. I assume that you have taken wind loads into consideration (and multiplied calculated loads by min. 1.5 or safer 2.0). Also anytime I am handling ropes or cables I wear medium duty leather gloves. I also like to put all my antennas up without extra help, I enjoy figuring out how to get the job done by myself. Its the challenge!
Since be buy a LOT of Marlow Shock cord directly from the factory, I am friends with their folks and I will let them check the calcs since it's very similar to rigging a small sailing boat.
Hi Callum. John Eckert KK7UAG here. You may look into using something like Unistrut. If I remember correctly, it comes plastic, fiberglass and steel. GOOD LUCK & 73's
Looked at that.. Thanks.
I use a piece of unistrut for each of 3 different masts. Two of them have large VHF/UHF satellite arrays.
One of the larger Clarke Masts will work without a concrete foundation. I have one of the telescoping 18 Meter high Clarke Masts - 66 ft, which is a good height
Find me one in two weeks in perfect working order please under £1k :)
I like the idea of the fiberglass scaffolding poles. They make fiberglass re-bar in at least 20' (banana;) lengths. You could epoxy one of those inside at the mid point for reinforcement. Or maybe drop a 10' section in the bottom one and let the twenty-footer sit on top of it thereby spanning the joint between the two poles as well. One thing I have successfully used to reach similar lengths is 35'+ bamboo poles with a cobra ultralite senior wrapped around them like giant rabbit ears.
kb3uka
Yes. Nice.
Coupling the tower with solid fibreglass pole to the inner diameter would be more stable as it can be longer remove some flex. Will also allow you to decouple the two section so that they appear electrically smaller.
Erm.. There shouldn't be ANY flex regardless of the connector actually.. Been there, done that.. The guys are for keeping it straight..
Our Radio Club used an older military style (WW2) for HF comms. Looks like a hand truck (for moving boxes) but the bottom was bigger. Roll it into place and use steel rebar to pin the bottom unit. Insert a 8 foot section of HD fiberglass and turn a crank. That raises the first piece bottom to 8 ft and locks into place allowing you to insert another 8 ft section - turn a crank and that raises it and locks, now you have 16 ft. etc...Our Vertical was at 50 feet supporting a large yagi antenna. Would be easy to make permanent. This vertical supporting device was new to me - had never seen this before. bet you could find one in the UK military surplus?
Yes, I've seen those.
How much is a non roadworthy, functional, articulated (not telescopic) boom, mobile crane in the UK eg an old concrete pump?
Just leave it parked at the farm.
If you need a skyhook use a sky hook.
The crane's prime mover can provide primary power and shelter too.
You're right not to use polyrope. At the back of my house once year we put up a 48m high lattice mast, with a crane and a rigger. We guyed it with 16mm blue polyrope. It was only temporary, hence no steel guys. And it was for AM broadcast so wire guys would have affected it anyway.
Anyway - all was good! But it rained heavily one day and when wet the polyrope stretched, and I recall watching in horror as the mast swayed alarmingly in the wind. Next day, when the rain abated, I went out and had to tighten the guys considerably.
Mastrand is your friend.
Oh- a guy anchor point idea that we used: Got a mini-digger and dug a trench at each guy anchor point, perpendicular to the way the guy would run, and a sloping narrow 'ramp' from the centre of the trench towards the mast.
Got a railway sleeper, wound galv steel wire around the centre and clamped it, then dropped the sleeper into the trench, with the galv wire coming up the ramp.
Filled the trench in.
The wire then protruding from the ground was the stay point. As all the strain was trying to pull the sleeper sideways against the wall of the trench, it was never coming out.
Of course we did this six times for the six guy anchor points.
Then when we had to vacate the field, we just dug down with a spade about 18", and cut off the galv wire, leaving the sleepers down there forever!
This idea came from a bloke who used to put up those temp masts for wind measurement when planing wind turbines.
I like the sleeper idea... Around these parts, I know from experience that getting hold of a GOOD sleeper is an issue.. BUT a good idea!!
some one used a old council light pole, ones that can be un bolted and dropped down such a good idea
Yeah.. that's good!!
For raising and lowering, check into a 12v DC winch for an ATV. You can put a clevice attachment on one of your guy wires so it's removable when not raising or lowering.
Beware - ATV winches are good for use in raising (or pulling), but not for lowering (or resisting) a mass weight. The ATV winch may fail when lowering the mast (as I understand from others). Winches good for both raising and lowering are quite a bit more expensive. Don't get hurt, please.
I don't need power. This should be a hand winch.. And I can probably do it with a pulley.
@dwallich56 no different than unloading a car from a flatbed wrecker. You can easily make a mount to attach it to the concrete pillar to work from. I'm disabled. I have to come up with other ways to do things. This works well.
@@dannyjardine8828 Could be, but light duty ATV winches are much different from heavy duty wrecker winches. That's my point.
I have some 6m long, 2-inch fibreglass poles, and they are thick walls so as to be rigid, but that makes them heavy. Without checking, I think they are at least as heavy as Ali' scaff poles of the same length. If you haven't checked the weights, I suggest you take a look. A well-known contester in GM guyed his masts with Masterant D12, and it failed catastrophically. Look at the UK contest reflector for a full autopsy (in 2012 so ropes may have changed since)
Depends if it was the P series.. In any case, I'll chat to Marlow. They have about 50 years more experience.
PS - I tried to find his specific message but only say reference to it.. Regardless, I will probably go with Dyneema and scale it appropriately as if it was a sailing boat..
Hi Callum, have you considered screw-piles for the base? I know these are used on commercial towers for permanent and semi permanent installations.
OK, so the base is not under that much tension or lateral movement.. An idea though!
Hi Callum. All the best with this project. With some custom spacers / clamps, you could form 3 scaffold poles into a lattice structure? I did this 30+ years ago for a temporary mast for an EME array, so it was not that tall. Can't remember quite how I did it, but it worked! 73
Thought about that.. I have lots of experience with scaffolding connectors and getting 12m height would add complexity, some unknowns and tilt over issues. Good idea though.
A military surplus AB-577 portable mast setup checks all the boxes. Don't know if you've got access to one over there. I'm sure there's some regional equivalent.
Not seen those.. Google shows up a few. Expensive.
@@DXCommanderHQ $1000 or so when you can find one. I'm sure anything you build comes close to that in materials.
Your idea is sound. I've done what you describe with a 120 ft. mast of four inch pipe!
Wow. What a sight!
I picked up a Cl;arke pneumatic mast that was frost damaged very cheap, no you can't have it, but one may be a possible solution. Clarke do a lot with the military, but may do a deal to break into the ham market. Possibly worth a try? 73 Jim M7BXT
I have a smaller Clark.. Nice pieces of kit.
Oh yes, use the cork screw anchors that we use for hot air balloons or big dogs. Has a hex head for power drill to drive them in.
Would aluminum military camouflage netting support poles work? They are about four feet long.
Erm maybe.
Interesting project. I'm trying to figure out how to house mount a tilt over 30-40' tower without breaking the bank. I don't want to pour a ton of concrete as well.
You *could* wall mount an aluminium 30-footer on the side.. I did that once. But careful it's not that heavy when fully loaded. I also braced my wall with some huge vertical timbers.
@@DXCommanderHQgreat idea. I'll have to see if I have enough bracing to do something like that.
Friend of mine used an old construction site elevator
Callum,
May I please make mention of a design that I use at my QTH, it doesn't use a huge concrete base but it does have one, the mast is 15 metres tall and it bends over in the middle.
This was not my original idea, it came from Peter VK6YSF in Perth Austrailia, he has a website where you can see his design and run-down of what he did with his.
Please have a gander at it, if it helps you out with your plan, all the better.
Cheers,
Mike ZL3XD.
Hiya Mike.. Yes, I have just read the article and seen pics.. Love it.. My issue is that I don't think I can hold mine at the half-way point. I would need a lattice construction I think.. But thanks!
Dx Engineering has some very sturdy fiberglass tubing roughly 46 ft tall TFK 46 I think
Ah maybe.. Thing is, I can't ship it.. But good tip for USA guys.
@@DXCommanderHQ Maybe they'd do a deal for a supplier of fantastic Antennas and Antenna Accessories:)
use the metal poles and join them with plastic joiners.....if you keep a short space between the poles it won't be a continuous conductor.........also, I'm sure you have modeled the interaction?.........spacing matters.....my phased 40 meter verts corrupted the pattern of my 5 active element circle array (W1FV & VE6WZ stuff) moved the circle array which solved the problem.........cheerio from Boston FN42........
Finding the RIGHT method of joining two poles without an electrical connection is difficult. And yes, modelled it. Not perfect but certainly skews pattern.
What if you created a 4-sided pyramid (just the wireframe of one) and put a hinge at the apex to tilt the mast over (mast would be going through the apex of the pyramid to the ground). If you support the mast at the apex, and the apex is slightly over half the height of the mast, you could almost tilt it so it is hanging inverted to work on it (albeit upside down). To raise it back up, you'd just need to have a rope tied to the base and pull on it to rotate it back to vertical, and secure the mast to something in the ground (maybe just your bag of concrete and a metal attachment point). Essentially the 4 pieces of wireframe for the 4 sided pyramid are 'permanent guys'.
You could just use sandbags, or tent spikes and rope to hold the base of the pyramid wireframe down. You could additionally guy the mast part way up to the apex and use the base of the pyramid for guy attachment points (some eye-bolt attachments). It depends on what materials and heights as to whether you need guys for the mast or of if the 'wireframe pyramid' is enough to support things freestanding...It is a space hog, I wouldn't want it in my backyard, but that's because I use it for gardening and other stuff...if you have some space...
If you aren't using the antenna for a while, the inverted antenna (lowered position) could attach to the ground and have a super-low center of gravity to be easy to raise at a moment's notice...And it would be 'off the ground' as well so it doesn't sit in wet grass, or dogs/wildlife won't run into it...might paint the wireframe pyramid visibly though! :) WW0K 'pyramid foldover tower' :)
Complex. Don't know where to source components. Don't have experience of that.
The Chinese use bamboo for scaffolding. Four guys? I prefer Five Guys, but they are quite expensive compared to McDonalds. Oh, unrelated, have you seen Lewis (RingwayManchester)'s latest video? He shows an old cell tower which is currently laying on the ground and is going begging. Probably overkill, but probably cheap. Will probably require three smaller embedded concrete blocks. And it'll probably detune the other antennas so probably a non-starter...
It might be cheap - now find me the transport costs - and tilt it over since I am not climbing it :)
Some Asian countries use bamboo for scaffolding - maybe possible to source that size of bamboo in the UK somewhere?
No we can't - and fibreglass pretty good anyway.
Would it be possible to use a winch to raise and lower this with the dead fall.
Yes.. I might look at that depending on weight.
Let’s give her a go , IS THIS FREQUENCY IN USE 👋A couple of pints one for me mate at the other end of the transmission 👍
Would it not be simpler to use your generator pump up mast , or is that not suitable for what you are doing ?
Not high enough.. The Hydraulic tower is about 9m and not tilt over.
Have you thought about an A frame design? Being a bit creative you can make the A frame without any welding, lots of fittings on Norscaff website. The advantage of the A frame is that you basically have only one plane of movement as you are raising it and no swivel joints at the most vulnerable points. 73
I have looked at that.. However, I am almost building an A frame anyway - but with tensioned rope.. And the side visible view from a distance should be low. Good idea though.
For that height, why not a tilt-able fiberglass flagpole?
The ones we have here, comes with a footing, with a hinge, that only requires a small amount of concrete in a post.
And flagpoles, even at that length are easy to erect for one person and as many people buy flagpoles, its quite cheap...
They are - and I have spoken to a flagpole manufacturer. They don't like the headload. Only a flag. And it's very expensive.
I think that the guy from Walter's and Stanton watches your channel. After you do a video on something, then he does the same subject afterwards.
HAHA!! Yes, the UK creators have agreed the same..! He also goes through our back-catalogue to see what he's missed! (so funny!)
I've got a spare SCAM 12 mast that I want rid off, it's fully restored with black poweder coating, never been raised since restoration. If no one wants it, it'll be going to the scrap.
Fascinating. If you are serious, do you mind dropping me an email qrz @ m0mcx .co .uk..?
@@DXCommanderHQjust emailed you
Thanks for the video..would like to see how you ended up doing...I have a 41ft(12m) vibroplex mast that won't be extended the whole way (more like 22-26 feet). The rotor is base mounted so the whole mast rotates. Looked at Barenco fixtures, and they are not quite cost effective for this Ham. My neighbor will be welding up an equivalent one. Maybe i should do a video of that whole thing. I have limited space where it should tilt over..nervous..Hi Hi. see my qrz page
Do the video!
CALLUM, are you sure your not from Mississippi,
I don't see them sharpies holding up 😅
HAHAHA!
@@DXCommanderHQ Great video as always
No no no 3 polls the One in the middle tilt's over there one in middle is waited for easy tilt 3 bolts or stage pins to lock in place
You can do that.. But the outer poles would need to be longer than I fancy.
Disclaimer - I don't know the Mastrant line like I do some other brands. Here in the US I'd be looking at Samson's Amsteel Blue for the guy rope - It's Dyneema with a coating that adds to the abrasion resistance. It's crazy low stretch and easy to splice (I'd use splices instead of knots or bolted clamp style connections, but not everyone is set up or knows how to splice these types of ropes). For the lift line / pulley rope I'd either go with jacketed multi-core line (the kind of stuff used by cavers or rope access workers) or a product intended as a hand line for the utility industry. Jacketed multi-core are intended for use with pulleys and friction devices. They'll typically be Nylon or Polyester so they will have more stretch than Dyneema but it's probably not a problem for lifting and lowering. Utility hand lines will be single braid and are available in a number of materials and they'll be large enough in diameter to make them comfortable in the hand. While they'll do fine in properly sized pulleys, some hand lines will have fairly low melting points and I would avoid using them with any kind of friction device.
Totally agree! Different ropes for the two different applications. Thanks for saying for the benefit of the comment readers!
Al u whatium?
Not Alooomyim!
Brits and their fasteners.
Love 'em!
Take it from a professional mason. Go twice as strong as you think. Ive had hospital time from underguessing it.
Max Gain Systems here in the states does serious fiberglass for aerials. They have stuff thats designed for horizontal loads.
The best system for raising a mast is absolutely the pneumatic hollow shaft system. Impossibble to destroy and built for industrial
Lighting
Absolutely.. I have a very strong tendancy to completely over-engineer stuff anyway..
I have found a solution for a tower from NN4SA club sight using one pole with the tower balanced at center a few pulleys and a small hand winch. Would love to send you photos but not sure how on RUclips
Please. Send to qrz at m0mcx . co . uk
🍿
Hi calum I did send you DM on messenger mate for an idea