If i remember correctly Andy said its not just the design of the alpha thats patented but a Ratio of track width to rail, so that really made it difficult for other manufacturers to design a similar system.
Cat has said they are exploring with offering a twin rail again. Listen to the snowest podcast from haydays this year, with the cat guys. Very good conversation. With Andy Beavis and Troy Halverson.
I remember watching that podcast, and I know I got the idea somewhere (that they were considering a conventional suspension for the M), but didn’t remember where that idea came from. I’m sure that’s it - thanks for bring it up.
There are a lot of potential buyers wondering the same thing. During the photo shoot, we (the riders) cornered a few of the more influential people and asked about a turbo. The only thing they would say is that they’ve been working on it. They were vague about what they’re working on, other than that. One said that it’s a slow process, because the other manufacturers have quite a few patents that they have to avoid and that makes it difficult. But, r & d is happening on a turbo and a boosted 858 seems like a slam dunk for them. I think we’ll see it, but wouldn’t be surprised if it had to wait until 2026.
I’d like their mountain 146 short tunnel model with dual rail, I’m in Minnesota the alpha rail sucks on the trail, maybe get the m series 146 and put a 146 riot skid in it, than I’ll be satisfied
I think there are quite a few people that would agree with you. I got to trail ride a Riot X a few years ago, and while it wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be, it didn't feel comfortable on trail at all. Arctic Cat is listening to consumers, and I get the feeling we'll eventually see a dual-rail version at some point.
@@Timcanniff311 Yes. It was easily controlled, but definitely didn’t take corners very well. For flatlanders like us, I agree with you that the Alpha just isn’t a good fit. Cat just announced a demo weekend at ERX on Feb. 17-18 from 10am-5pm. I don’t know what sleds they’ll have there, would be nice if they had a mountain sled or two for people like you to try out. They should definitely have the Riot. I’m tentatively planning to go on Sunday.
I priced one out today and it was 26k cad pre tax and delivery…. My buddies new boost this year was just over 26 out the door. The new tech is cool but that’s way too pricey for an NA sled…
I'm not sure yet. In talking to my dealer about shocks, he said they don't know anything yet. Your comment makes me even more determined to get a straight answer.
I'm starting to suspect that Artic Cat is toying with consumers (in a positive way) to generate hype. Look at what releasing the 600cc only did. Everybody talked about the Catalyst because of that. They then flipped that bad press into positive hype knowing that 1 year later they could release the 858. I'm curious to see if it's not on purpose to not announce the dual rail yet, let people cry over it and then announce it for snowcheck. Or maybe they just missed the mark on this one.
I agree - they’ve done a good job of keeping the spotlight on the brand and they have an opportunity to make a splash. I think a dual rail suspension would be easy to add, they already have one for the Riot. All they’d have to do is bolt that skid up to the mountain sled, and start taking people’s money. Will they do it? I don’t know - seems like a slam dunk to me, but they might not agree.
Oops! Thanks for pointing that out. I just grabbed a photo and should've been more careful. I'm working on a full shock video, and will make sure to get the correct shocks. I appreciate the correction!
Cant copy arctic cat, yea thats bullshit. Where is the cease and decist for kmod? Uses the same damn track. Manufactures could definately make something similar but they realize the monorail sucks. If it were so great pros would be putting kmod skinnys on their poo's. Just another excuse cat guys use to help them sleep at night. Not everyone wants to feel like they are riding a motorcycle.
I think it may be different for OEMs to copy patents then it is for aftermarket companies that do not produce sleds. Otherwise there wouldn't be a aftermarket option. And yes Cat did make it nearly impossible for the other two OEMs to produce the single rail design until 2029 when the patent is up.
@@jacobboswell9325 you believe. I prefer facts and the fact is someone is making the same thing that can be used on other brands. Poo or doo could do a skinny dual rail with zero issues. They don't because nobody wants them. Look at all the comments on posts about cats new release asking for a twin rail option
@@jerkerhybbert6417 havnt heard anything about that. If the patent infringement claim is legitimate then kmod could be potentially sued. It's the same concept and uses the same track. Nobody wants a monorail
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Lots of great info. Thanks for the clear and precise overview. GO CAT!! I'm Looking hard at the RIOT.
K-mod has a dual rail narrow setup, that's only 5.5 inches wide, that those that have tried it, seem to like it.
Alpha one is awsome once u give it a try
If i remember correctly Andy said its not just the design of the alpha thats patented but a Ratio of track width to rail, so that really made it difficult for other manufacturers to design a similar system.
That would make sense.
Really need the shock break down video, very interested in the in-house built shocks for the mountain cat. Not sure why they moved off fox
Cat has said they are exploring with offering a twin rail again. Listen to the snowest podcast from haydays this year, with the cat guys. Very good conversation. With Andy Beavis and Troy Halverson.
I remember watching that podcast, and I know I got the idea somewhere (that they were considering a conventional suspension for the M), but didn’t remember where that idea came from. I’m sure that’s it - thanks for bring it up.
thanks 👍👍
So eight years after BRP debuted its 850 engine Arctic Cat introduces its 858 engine. I wonder if they have a turbo in the works.
There are a lot of potential buyers wondering the same thing. During the photo shoot, we (the riders) cornered a few of the more influential people and asked about a turbo. The only thing they would say is that they’ve been working on it. They were vague about what they’re working on, other than that. One said that it’s a slow process, because the other manufacturers have quite a few patents that they have to avoid and that makes it difficult. But, r & d is happening on a turbo and a boosted 858 seems like a slam dunk for them. I think we’ll see it, but wouldn’t be surprised if it had to wait until 2026.
@@ponycarfan All good. I hope this 858 engine is stout. The more competition the better.
I’d like their mountain 146 short tunnel model with dual rail, I’m in Minnesota the alpha rail sucks on the trail, maybe get the m series 146 and put a 146 riot skid in it, than I’ll be satisfied
I think there are quite a few people that would agree with you. I got to trail ride a Riot X a few years ago, and while it wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be, it didn't feel comfortable on trail at all.
Arctic Cat is listening to consumers, and I get the feeling we'll eventually see a dual-rail version at some point.
@@ponycarfan I’m assuming you are talking about a dual rail or was it an alpha rail?
@@Timcanniff311 The Riot X that I rode was the Alpha rail version.
@@ponycarfan did it feel tipsy on the trail ?
@@Timcanniff311 Yes. It was easily controlled, but definitely didn’t take corners very well. For flatlanders like us, I agree with you that the Alpha just isn’t a good fit.
Cat just announced a demo weekend at ERX on Feb. 17-18 from 10am-5pm. I don’t know what sleds they’ll have there, would be nice if they had a mountain sled or two for people like you to try out. They should definitely have the Riot. I’m tentatively planning to go on Sunday.
I priced one out today and it was 26k cad pre tax and delivery…. My buddies new boost this year was just over 26 out the door. The new tech is cool but that’s way too pricey for an NA sled…
Wow.
Ive heard the fox qs3s are different. The arctic cat ones are fox performance and the other ones are fox factory shocks is that true?
I'm not sure yet. In talking to my dealer about shocks, he said they don't know anything yet. Your comment makes me even more determined to get a straight answer.
I'm starting to suspect that Artic Cat is toying with consumers (in a positive way) to generate hype. Look at what releasing the 600cc only did. Everybody talked about the Catalyst because of that. They then flipped that bad press into positive hype knowing that 1 year later they could release the 858. I'm curious to see if it's not on purpose to not announce the dual rail yet, let people cry over it and then announce it for snowcheck. Or maybe they just missed the mark on this one.
I agree - they’ve done a good job of keeping the spotlight on the brand and they have an opportunity to make a splash. I think a dual rail suspension would be easy to add, they already have one for the Riot. All they’d have to do is bolt that skid up to the mountain sled, and start taking people’s money. Will they do it? I don’t know - seems like a slam dunk to me, but they might not agree.
I fucking hope they do, only way I’ll buy one, love my 19 alpha but hate the wash out on low snow days
You are aware that you showed the wrong Fox shocks? If they have springs they are not floats.
Oops! Thanks for pointing that out. I just grabbed a photo and should've been more careful. I'm working on a full shock video, and will make sure to get the correct shocks. I appreciate the correction!
Cant copy arctic cat, yea thats bullshit. Where is the cease and decist for kmod? Uses the same damn track. Manufactures could definately make something similar but they realize the monorail sucks. If it were so great pros would be putting kmod skinnys on their poo's. Just another excuse cat guys use to help them sleep at night. Not everyone wants to feel like they are riding a motorcycle.
I think it was kinda unintentional, but I hadn't thought of the Alpha, in terms of it being similar to a snow bike, before.
Maybe kmod have a deal with cat.
I think it may be different for OEMs to copy patents then it is for aftermarket companies that do not produce sleds. Otherwise there wouldn't be a aftermarket option. And yes Cat did make it nearly impossible for the other two OEMs to produce the single rail design until 2029 when the patent is up.
@@jacobboswell9325 you believe. I prefer facts and the fact is someone is making the same thing that can be used on other brands. Poo or doo could do a skinny dual rail with zero issues. They don't because nobody wants them. Look at all the comments on posts about cats new release asking for a twin rail option
@@jerkerhybbert6417 havnt heard anything about that. If the patent infringement claim is legitimate then kmod could be potentially sued. It's the same concept and uses the same track. Nobody wants a monorail