Hey there! Usually don't comment on these kinds of videos but I think it's important here... From a biomechanical perspective, the average person has about 30-35 degrees of thoracic range of motion (chest/upper torso). This means, for somebody to truly achieve 90 degrees of separation between their hips to their shoulders, they would be loading 55-60 degrees of rotation in their lumbar spine. Let's be clear - this is neither a healthy or athletic position to be in. Some high-level athletes do find themselves pushing the boundaries on safe rotation for the sake of extra power, but most of this barely pushes past 45 degrees of separation. Check out any slow-motion videos of Drew Gibson (OT disc golf has a great one), or Paul McBeth to see this in action. I get the point of what this and Leon's video is trying to convey - but the average disc golf consumer trying to replicate this concept verbatim is not a good idea.
Tried to implement Leon S’s advice this morning. Got my runup straight instead of diagonal. Trying to work hips. Found that need to focus a bit on pulling left shoulder back to create tension. Had a couple of better throws. Old habits are hard to break. This video nicely reinforces what LS’s said. Thanks.
Just to clarify, along with others, the shoulders are not perpendicular to the hips. The hips are rotating, just not as much as the shoulders. The hips are often about half (or less) as rotated as the shoulders. That hip-to-shoulder separation does create the coil effect, but they tend to move together dynamically as the body adjusts in real time as you start to swing back (reach back, reach out, extend), and then move back together as you swing forward. One way you can test this is sit in a chair, with your pelvis against the back. Carefully, slowly, rotate your shoulders like you would in a backswing, while leaving the pelvis touching the seat. You'll notice you can't get your shoulders to 90 degrees. Personally I can't quite reach a 45 degree angle between the hips and shoulders. This is one of the reasons some coaches have people stagger their feet in a standstill drive, to allow for better hip and shoulder angles during the backswing and swing. With the rear foot farther back than the front foot, it allows you to get the hips and shoulders farther back.
You are correct about needing tension between the hips and core, but look at the pros in slow motion. Their hips do rotate back SLIGHTLY, and their leg drive pivots their hips forward. 1. Legs drive hips forward (translation and rotation) 2. Torso unwinds 3. Arm uncoils and wrist snaps You are doing this also in your throws.
Hey iceberg. I’m no form guru but I have done an excessive amount of research to try and improve my own. The main things I notice with yours when slowing it down are The reach back fully extending quite early. Your arm is fully extended waiting for your front foot to hit the ground when it should be fully extended right after it hits the ground and then everything should go into motion. Try and move your off arm in before your arm starts to pull through. The other thing it looks like you may be doing (hard to tell from behind) is leaving pretty heavily into the front foot. The weight should transfer into the front foot but your center of gravity should not be over the front foot. It’s definitely coming along though man, love to see the improvements and seeing others work on the things I am. Keep the videos coming
It's been said, but Leon does rotate the hips a bit, and the shoulders more to create that hip shoulder seperation. The hips forwards and backward is the initiation of the throw. So when your front foot plants you should sink down a little, at this point your reachback should ideally reach the peak. Your front foot braces and and this is where the hips go almost front and back it's a tiny motion created by the brace/straightening of the front leg. Josh on OT talks about it as well. But you have way way better technique than I have, and I love the way you're explaining it. I'll give the straight hip a go next time. Thinking straight hip could make the hips rotate less. Thanks man
Looks like you may be opening up/rotating shoulders a bit early. It looks like your plant foot is a bit "open", pointing slightly forward, rather than closed to target, which may be the cause of this.
disclaimer: I'm no bomber nor coach. I've only been playing for at most 18 months, but I do watch a lot of form videos. I think your reach back is a tad high and reaches full extension a little early. In addition, your right leg in these clips and the crow hop video looks to be opening up before it plants and fully braces. Paul Ulibarri has a good video where Ezra helped him get some extra distance by dialing in his reach back timing ruclips.net/video/oTfNBlBDlFA/видео.html
Reaallly? I'll give it a shot, I've been coiling against my back hips a bit (not facing them back) maybe I don't need to as much? I haven't been feeling the power through my obliques (core)... So maybe I try this, then look for a happy medium?
As an all round horticulturalist, I find disc golf great because it doesn't require a silly amount of mowing, however on the eye for detail on my side I love scapes of a golf course. I wouldn't mind working on one but just the brushcutting & gardening side, as I'm not keen on sitting on a mower often anymore.
Hey there! Usually don't comment on these kinds of videos but I think it's important here...
From a biomechanical perspective, the average person has about 30-35 degrees of thoracic range of motion (chest/upper torso). This means, for somebody to truly achieve 90 degrees of separation between their hips to their shoulders, they would be loading 55-60 degrees of rotation in their lumbar spine. Let's be clear - this is neither a healthy or athletic position to be in.
Some high-level athletes do find themselves pushing the boundaries on safe rotation for the sake of extra power, but most of this barely pushes past 45 degrees of separation. Check out any slow-motion videos of Drew Gibson (OT disc golf has a great one), or Paul McBeth to see this in action.
I get the point of what this and Leon's video is trying to convey - but the average disc golf consumer trying to replicate this concept verbatim is not a good idea.
Tried to implement Leon S’s advice this morning. Got my runup straight instead of diagonal. Trying to work hips. Found that need to focus a bit on pulling left shoulder back to create tension. Had a couple of better throws. Old habits are hard to break. This video nicely reinforces what LS’s said. Thanks.
Just to clarify, along with others, the shoulders are not perpendicular to the hips. The hips are rotating, just not as much as the shoulders. The hips are often about half (or less) as rotated as the shoulders. That hip-to-shoulder separation does create the coil effect, but they tend to move together dynamically as the body adjusts in real time as you start to swing back (reach back, reach out, extend), and then move back together as you swing forward.
One way you can test this is sit in a chair, with your pelvis against the back. Carefully, slowly, rotate your shoulders like you would in a backswing, while leaving the pelvis touching the seat. You'll notice you can't get your shoulders to 90 degrees. Personally I can't quite reach a 45 degree angle between the hips and shoulders. This is one of the reasons some coaches have people stagger their feet in a standstill drive, to allow for better hip and shoulder angles during the backswing and swing. With the rear foot farther back than the front foot, it allows you to get the hips and shoulders farther back.
You are correct about needing tension between the hips and core, but look at the pros in slow motion. Their hips do rotate back SLIGHTLY, and their leg drive pivots their hips forward.
1. Legs drive hips forward (translation and rotation)
2. Torso unwinds
3. Arm uncoils and wrist snaps
You are doing this also in your throws.
I’ve never heard anyone talk about keeping the hips staying perpendicular to the shoulders before. Excited to try this
Thx for the info. Gonna give’r a try. I think my hips have been following my shoulders in the reach-back.
Thank you for giving credit where credit is due. Not a lot of instructors on this platform do that.
Hey iceberg. I’m no form guru but I have done an excessive amount of research to try and improve my own. The main things I notice with yours when slowing it down are The reach back fully extending quite early. Your arm is fully extended waiting for your front foot to hit the ground when it should be fully extended right after it hits the ground and then everything should go into motion. Try and move your off arm in before your arm starts to pull through. The other thing it looks like you may be doing (hard to tell from behind) is leaving pretty heavily into the front foot. The weight should transfer into the front foot but your center of gravity should not be over the front foot.
It’s definitely coming along though man, love to see the improvements and seeing others work on the things I am. Keep the videos coming
Thank you! This could potentially be massive for my game. I don't think I've paid enough attention to this at all.
That rear leg pop is looking nice. Making huge strides!
It's been said, but Leon does rotate the hips a bit, and the shoulders more to create that hip shoulder seperation. The hips forwards and backward is the initiation of the throw. So when your front foot plants you should sink down a little, at this point your reachback should ideally reach the peak. Your front foot braces and and this is where the hips go almost front and back it's a tiny motion created by the brace/straightening of the front leg. Josh on OT talks about it as well. But you have way way better technique than I have, and I love the way you're explaining it. I'll give the straight hip a go next time. Thinking straight hip could make the hips rotate less. Thanks man
Looks like you may be opening up/rotating shoulders a bit early. It looks like your plant foot is a bit "open", pointing slightly forward, rather than closed to target, which may be the cause of this.
disclaimer: I'm no bomber nor coach. I've only been playing for at most 18 months, but I do watch a lot of form videos.
I think your reach back is a tad high and reaches full extension a little early. In addition, your right leg in these clips and the crow hop video looks to be opening up before it plants and fully braces.
Paul Ulibarri has a good video where Ezra helped him get some extra distance by dialing in his reach back timing ruclips.net/video/oTfNBlBDlFA/видео.html
Reaallly? I'll give it a shot, I've been coiling against my back hips a bit (not facing them back) maybe I don't need to as much?
I haven't been feeling the power through my obliques (core)... So maybe I try this, then look for a happy medium?
You better get off that green before the superintendent sees you.
Bro this got me down in the basement. Thank you
Maybe not perpendicular. Maybe about 90 versus about 15 degrees.
What course is this? We both live in NC so I’m curious
Its a private par 3 golf course
The dg holes are bad only 80 feet
As a golf course greenskeeper it hurts my soul watching you trample all over this golf green to make your videos. Golf greens are for putting 😂
Trust me when i say im literally the only person who uses the grounds
Is this pine hills golf course lmao
As an all round horticulturalist, I find disc golf great because it doesn't require a silly amount of mowing, however on the eye for detail on my side I love scapes of a golf course. I wouldn't mind working on one but just the brushcutting & gardening side, as I'm not keen on sitting on a mower often anymore.
nice job