As I recall the transports in classic can carry 1 tank, or 1 aa gun, or 1-2 infantry, the next generation of a&a games allow 1 infantry and one additional land unit of any kind...ie 1 tank and 1 infantry.
A couple of caveats. Sinking every uk and Russian ship is def a great outcome but near impossible to pull off. I normally leave the Russian ships alone turn one unless they move into UK waters before Germany's turn or attack the ships on Germany's coast. (which I always do with Russia to take as much heat off UK as possible) you mentioned good players using Russia. In my experience beginning game for Russia is purchasing nothing but infantry at the beginning and stacking with your fighters for defense in karelia which makes that key to Moscow very defensible early in the game. Should be noted that capturing Finland and either of the German territories adjacent to the south of karelia are common on Russia's first turn. I think the key with Germany is to hit Russia hard but if you're playing with seasoned players eyeballing Russia too early can bog Germany and lose valuable ipcs to the UK. Just like karelia is the key to Moscow the territory to the east of Germany (I believe eastern Europe) is the key to Berlin and that must be defended. I think it's prudent to send enough into Africa to kick England out and make them even sacrifice man power in India to assist Japan in mainland China. This way you can begin with Japan to choke off uk resources and make the UK player more of a spectator until the us and Russia can if possible liberate some of their territories. Keep in mind that like you point out that if capturing karelia early on is possible you can severely cripple the Russian player and even capture their capital that this can also be done against the UK if enough favorable conditions are presented. (Normally novice or even just mediocre play combined with horribly bad dice luck) I've seen operation sea lion work a few times by turn 2 or 3. Basically my keys with Germany are British navy, Africa, hurt Russia, and persuade my ally using Japan to be a thorn to Russia and UK whenever possible. There's always some combination of those strategies available. One final note. I prefer all armor with my first turn I may alter that at times depending on the previous players turns and get a fighter, but I've seen tried a host of strategies that have worked with Germany on turn one, such as going all submarines, two bombers, weapons developments, and I have even seen someone purchase an aircraft carrier on turn one and have it work out in their favor. Things I would avoid with Germany are purchasing transports unless you have strong enough naval presence to protect them, purchasing battle ships unless the same, purchasing factories, leaving the west coast weakly defended by turn 2 3 tops, letting the UK easily have Africa, and letting Russia breath especially if you aren't getting help from Japan.
@Anti-amelia slimeball who hates you all. ban_tran never played vs ai. Just real players. It's been a long time, but when another player purchased all subs with Germany I'm sure they still had their battleship after England's turn 1, allowing the battleship to be combined with newly built submarines. The submarines were petty much fodder allowing the battleship to destroy attacking planes. In this instance Germany actually had a navy for a bit. I've played quite a bit of games. I never said buying all submarines turn 1 works every time. I said I saw it work before. It was likely very conditional to Germany having that battleship remaining and England losing the majority of their planes. I didn't think it would be necessary but I've also seen Germany lose early a whole lot of ways too. I would like you be more specific in how you think any strategy I suggested would be using rare rolls
Probably why a Russian first turn attack is double edged sword, I've often seen the Russian turn 1 attack actually go badly for the Russians, greedy overstretched slightly under odd battles. This could give Germany much more flexibility in their 1st turn purchased.
Great video, I've seen some crazy ideas and sometimes they work quite well....ie....2 airplanes firstly take on the Gibraltar battleship, must know outcome b4 next battt in the UK home sea, both submarines and the other 4 aircraft hoping to get no more than 3 out of the 4 hits (Russian units added), taking all damages on airplanes only, the 2 submarines retreat to the Spain / Algeria and the remaining airplanes finish the battle alone. Noncombat will have both German transports and the battleship join the 2 retreated submarines, this is not an easy target for the English turn 1 counterattack with just 3 aircraft for the attack (some people believe the Canadian transport is a qualified unit for a casualty, without warships in the battle, transports can't be used offensivly / can't be taken as loss to protect the aircraft. Now both the US & English capitols are threatened by up to 5 dice from 4 infantry and the shore bombardment. My favorite however is taking Brazil and landing any surviving fighters in France for the next turn to land in Brazil, a turn 3 factory is extremely annoying for the USA, several times I've had success with my German factory in Brazil, often Japan can distract the USA enough to be very helpful. This is the more grandiose method of capturing Brazil, the more conservative approach is much more practical, capturing Gibraltar with the battleship and 1 transport, next turn is French West Africa, if still alive then turn 3 is eithet brazil or south Africa / other targets of opportunity
In addition to everything you said, I'd recommend buying at least one bomber over the course of the game. I know it sounds crazy but hear me out: In this version of A&A, West Europe is 3 tiles away from the US East Coast SZ (The only place America can spawn units to threaten Germany). If you park two bombers on West Europe, the US can no longer simply buy a ton of transports and sail troops over en masse to Europe. If they do, your bombers will simply sink the transports, buying you more time to out-stack the Russians in Karelia. Now, the US can easily keep their troop convoy alive by buying a few surface boats (carriers, usually, since there aren't any destroyers in this game). However, if the Americans are stuck blowing 18+ dollars on a surface fleet, that's 18+ fewer dollars they're spending on actual ground units that can harm you. This also applies to dealing with the UK, although with them you also have the added bonus of your fighters to help sink their fleet as many times as is needed. Good video though, as always.
That's an interesting idea! As long as the front with Russia is stable and the IPCs can be spared, I can see the advantage. I'm not 100% on board though, as Germany would be spending extra money to force the US to spend more money and the US can more easily afford it. As an amendment, I would suggest buying a fighter each turn and destroying any US fleet that approaches the coasts of England and/or Algeria. These fighters can double as defense against Russia/amphibious assaults and won't cost as much as a bomber.
I see your concern with the cost. That's why I'd only really advocate buying exactly one bomber (replacing the fighter buy for that turn, *only if* the front is in good shape) and defaulting to Fighter buys for the rest of the game. The extra "4" on offense will add a lot of punch to your rolls, and a Bomber based in West Europe can reach basically anywhere on the map (Karelia/Moscow/UK SZ/US UZ/Even Africa if you really need to). The idea behind the double bomber is to force the US to keep some portion of their fleet in their home base at all times. It slows down the Allied Approach to Europe (since the Fighters and Bombers also threaten anything in the SZs you mentioned. Meaning the US has to buy two large fleets instead of one), buying Japan enough time to get their Asian Steamroller up and running.
Unfortunately for Germany, Classic Edition is a Solved Game, US to play and win. Japan to Moscow isn't enough. 1. Germany MUST buy a Bomber turn 1 to even have a chance if the Allies are too savvy to correct play. Russia and Germany primarily are in 100% infantry mode to out money the other. T1 Germany also buys 1 Transport. UK buys aircraft carrier to house American planes and Complex in India. Japan derps. US abandons Pacific, theres no fast money for US let others fight for the money islands. 2. Shuck Shuck transports is still too powerful. Germany blitzes the hell out of Africa. UK tanks China and Japan has to turn around. US positions at Canada if they weren't bombed. US positions at Canada if they were bombed. 3. US hits Algeria and Norway. 4. US liberates Karelia if needed. T5 Marines flood Europe despite bombers bc dice and money and math.
Axis plan is: Germany Bomber blasts US T2 hope it's enough blitzes Africa. Japan plan must eliminate India before Moscow. Doable. Germany grinds with Russia. Japan grinds with Russia. Need dumb luck on dice and for Allies to not make perfect moves. (Turn 1 purchases must be EXACT. Japan largely needs transports. UK is on tank duty basically whole time.) India needs to fall fast because Japan STILL needs to race to Moscow. Both Axis need to do 2 things each: Russia, Africa, India, Russia. UK only needs to do India really. Russia only needs to pull back to defend from Japan an masse and mainly needs to do Germany. Only US has two jobs, and they're Not "Europe and Pacific"-- they're Norway and Algeria. Once first American European contact is made then it's time to put together D-Day. America can race to Russia before Japan can. That is the problem.
@@darthparallax5207 the advantage is def on the side of the allies but I believe there are some inaccuracies in your breakdown. First of all UK cannot purchase an aircraft carrier and a factory on t1. That exceeds their beginning ipcs. Even with abandoning the Pacific it's going to be a couple of turns before the us can bring enough force to invade with a deciding force in Finland or Algeria. By that time UK according to your breakdown UK has either purchased an aircraft carrier for the us to land their two fighters on and could lose India anyway. Or they've purchased a factory in India and there's no aircraft carrier. Regardless, Germany should be attacking defenseless us transports. Not to mention that a competent player with Japan already has enough power and is within range to invade Alaska and make the us defend north America. If rolls go bad enough the us could even be looking at a factory in Alaska producing by t3.
Bro anyone got any tips for Russia taking Eastern Europe the first round and Britain stocking up on transports and battleships? It is literally invincible, I came up with the Russian and British move and showed my buddy and I can’t beat it myself, the only possible way is to get to get incredibly lucky with Germany and knock almost all of Britain’s navy, but that’s not likely. I would break it down but it’d be too long
It's hard to say for certain without knowing troop distributions, but my initial thinking is that Germany should either strike from Germany/Southern Europe/Caucus and crush the Russian force in Eastern Europe (leaving enough air force behind to deal with the British navy on turn 1, with an eye toward pushing on toward Karelia on turn 2 and then Moscow on turn 3. If Karelia is looking weak enough on Germany's turn 1, it could alternatively attack that territory from Caucus and Finland/Norway while simultaneously attacking Eastern Europe from Germany and Southern Europe. In both options, Germany can make use of it's Baltic Sea transport to shuttle just a little bit more into Karelia and it's Medit fleet can do the same in Eastern Europe. Granted, that means sacrificing other options in the Medit, but if it looks like there's real potential to bring down Russia very early on I'd say it's worth it to leave Egypt alone. If Russia is likely to look particularly weak after Germany's first turn, it might even be worth leaving the British navy alone and instead throw those extra planes toward the offensive in the east to make it even more potent.
The thing is, even if I can get back Eastern Europe first round (which I always do) the force in Karelia is almost always enough to come back in and take it and if it is not Karelia reinforces and Britain hits wherever I am weakest. Russia gets paid 27-30 every round which lets them buy 2 tanks on Russia which can go anywhere and then 3 more infantry on Karelia. Stack that with Britain, and it’s very hard for Germany to even pose a threat to Russia. Would you recommend sacrificing German Air Force first round to hit Britain’s navy? I often do but if those battles don’t go my way obviously it feels like the game is already over. If America gets involved it makes it that much harder. I suppose it’s just very frustrating because if I’m playing axis it’s fun to attack, that’s what makes them exciting and makes for a rewarding win, but with this strategy I’ve never even threatened Karelia but one time and that was because I got incredibly lucky on infantry rolls. Hell I wasn’t even able to hold Ukraine, Eastern Europe, and Western Europe for more than 2 Rounds.
@@JonathanMeyer84 I forgot to mention this, the whole idea behind attacking Eastern Europe when I started doing it was not to keep it round 1(I would normally just leave 1 infantry there), but to prevent 4 tanks from attacking Karelia, if you repeatedly do this with a wealthy British Navy, Germany’s chances of taking Karelia go down astronomically.
@@JonathanMeyer84 what about German fleet ? Are u going to sacrifice it ? I would buy turn1 an aircraft carrier and a fighter in Baltic sea (or mediteranean if russia has too much planes. Then sink English fleet with planes and leave one of my Sub in England Sea to stop planes from passing. Then move Mediteranean and baltic fleet in Atlantic (leaving 2 tanks in algeria). So big pressure on England and US (they will use their money to protect their capitals). For US the pressure is bigger if japan sinks its fleet in Hamaï. Turn 2 aircraft joins with battleship and transports in Atlantic (the strategy is to be able from there to go everywhere : brazil, us, canada, uk, karelia...). Meanwhile, I would try not to fight Russia, buy some time so japan comes and africa falls into Romels hands. Then Africa corp would go to India if still holding or open another front in south of Moscou. Karelia would devide its forces :D
I seem to remember that Russia has a transport in the North Sea as well as a submarine...
As I recall the transports in classic can carry 1 tank, or 1 aa gun, or 1-2 infantry, the next generation of a&a games allow 1 infantry and one additional land unit of any kind...ie 1 tank and 1 infantry.
That is correct. I apologize if I misspoke or misremembered while recording this video.
A couple of caveats. Sinking every uk and Russian ship is def a great outcome but near impossible to pull off. I normally leave the Russian ships alone turn one unless they move into UK waters before Germany's turn or attack the ships on Germany's coast. (which I always do with Russia to take as much heat off UK as possible) you mentioned good players using Russia. In my experience beginning game for Russia is purchasing nothing but infantry at the beginning and stacking with your fighters for defense in karelia which makes that key to Moscow very defensible early in the game. Should be noted that capturing Finland and either of the German territories adjacent to the south of karelia are common on Russia's first turn.
I think the key with Germany is to hit Russia hard but if you're playing with seasoned players eyeballing Russia too early can bog Germany and lose valuable ipcs to the UK. Just like karelia is the key to Moscow the territory to the east of Germany (I believe eastern Europe) is the key to Berlin and that must be defended.
I think it's prudent to send enough into Africa to kick England out and make them even sacrifice man power in India to assist Japan in mainland China. This way you can begin with Japan to choke off uk resources and make the UK player more of a spectator until the us and Russia can if possible liberate some of their territories.
Keep in mind that like you point out that if capturing karelia early on is possible you can severely cripple the Russian player and even capture their capital that this can also be done against the UK if enough favorable conditions are presented. (Normally novice or even just mediocre play combined with horribly bad dice luck) I've seen operation sea lion work a few times by turn 2 or 3.
Basically my keys with Germany are British navy, Africa, hurt Russia, and persuade my ally using Japan to be a thorn to Russia and UK whenever possible. There's always some combination of those strategies available.
One final note. I prefer all armor with my first turn I may alter that at times depending on the previous players turns and get a fighter, but I've seen tried a host of strategies that have worked with Germany on turn one, such as going all submarines, two bombers, weapons developments, and I have even seen someone purchase an aircraft carrier on turn one and have it work out in their favor. Things I would avoid with Germany are purchasing transports unless you have strong enough naval presence to protect them, purchasing battle ships unless the same, purchasing factories, leaving the west coast weakly defended by turn 2 3 tops, letting the UK easily have Africa, and letting Russia breath especially if you aren't getting help from Japan.
@Anti-amelia slimeball who hates you all. ban_tran never played vs ai. Just real players. It's been a long time, but when another player purchased all subs with Germany I'm sure they still had their battleship after England's turn 1, allowing the battleship to be combined with newly built submarines. The submarines were petty much fodder allowing the battleship to destroy attacking planes. In this instance Germany actually had a navy for a bit. I've played quite a bit of games. I never said buying all submarines turn 1 works every time. I said I saw it work before. It was likely very conditional to Germany having that battleship remaining and England losing the majority of their planes. I didn't think it would be necessary but I've also seen Germany lose early a whole lot of ways too.
I would like you be more specific in how you think any strategy I suggested would be using rare rolls
Probably why a Russian first turn attack is double edged sword, I've often seen the Russian turn 1 attack actually go badly for the Russians, greedy overstretched slightly under odd battles. This could give Germany much more flexibility in their 1st turn purchased.
Great video, I've seen some crazy ideas and sometimes they work quite well....ie....2 airplanes firstly take on the Gibraltar battleship, must know outcome b4 next battt in the UK home sea, both submarines and the other 4 aircraft hoping to get no more than 3 out of the 4 hits (Russian units added), taking all damages on airplanes only, the 2 submarines retreat to the Spain / Algeria and the remaining airplanes finish the battle alone. Noncombat will have both German transports and the battleship join the 2 retreated submarines, this is not an easy target for the English turn 1 counterattack with just 3 aircraft for the attack (some people believe the Canadian transport is a qualified unit for a casualty, without warships in the battle, transports can't be used offensivly / can't be taken as loss to protect the aircraft.
Now both the US & English capitols are threatened by up to 5 dice from 4 infantry and the shore bombardment. My favorite however is taking Brazil and landing any surviving fighters in France for the next turn to land in Brazil, a turn 3 factory is extremely annoying for the USA, several times I've had success with my German factory in Brazil, often Japan can distract the USA enough to be very helpful.
This is the more grandiose method of capturing Brazil, the more conservative approach is much more practical, capturing Gibraltar with the battleship and 1 transport, next turn is French West Africa, if still alive then turn 3 is eithet brazil or south Africa / other targets of opportunity
... better wait for summer
In addition to everything you said, I'd recommend buying at least one bomber over the course of the game. I know it sounds crazy but hear me out:
In this version of A&A, West Europe is 3 tiles away from the US East Coast SZ (The only place America can spawn units to threaten Germany). If you park two bombers on West Europe, the US can no longer simply buy a ton of transports and sail troops over en masse to Europe. If they do, your bombers will simply sink the transports, buying you more time to out-stack the Russians in Karelia.
Now, the US can easily keep their troop convoy alive by buying a few surface boats (carriers, usually, since there aren't any destroyers in this game). However, if the Americans are stuck blowing 18+ dollars on a surface fleet, that's 18+ fewer dollars they're spending on actual ground units that can harm you.
This also applies to dealing with the UK, although with them you also have the added bonus of your fighters to help sink their fleet as many times as is needed.
Good video though, as always.
That's an interesting idea! As long as the front with Russia is stable and the IPCs can be spared, I can see the advantage. I'm not 100% on board though, as Germany would be spending extra money to force the US to spend more money and the US can more easily afford it. As an amendment, I would suggest buying a fighter each turn and destroying any US fleet that approaches the coasts of England and/or Algeria. These fighters can double as defense against Russia/amphibious assaults and won't cost as much as a bomber.
I see your concern with the cost. That's why I'd only really advocate buying exactly one bomber (replacing the fighter buy for that turn, *only if* the front is in good shape) and defaulting to Fighter buys for the rest of the game. The extra "4" on offense will add a lot of punch to your rolls, and a Bomber based in West Europe can reach basically anywhere on the map (Karelia/Moscow/UK SZ/US UZ/Even Africa if you really need to).
The idea behind the double bomber is to force the US to keep some portion of their fleet in their home base at all times. It slows down the Allied Approach to Europe (since the Fighters and Bombers also threaten anything in the SZs you mentioned. Meaning the US has to buy two large fleets instead of one), buying Japan enough time to get their Asian Steamroller up and running.
Unfortunately for Germany, Classic Edition is a Solved Game, US to play and win.
Japan to Moscow isn't enough.
1. Germany MUST buy a Bomber turn 1 to even have a chance if the Allies are too savvy to correct play.
Russia and Germany primarily are in 100% infantry mode to out money the other. T1 Germany also buys 1 Transport. UK buys aircraft carrier to house American planes and Complex in India. Japan derps. US abandons Pacific, theres no fast money for US let others fight for the money islands.
2. Shuck Shuck transports is still too powerful. Germany blitzes the hell out of Africa. UK tanks China and Japan has to turn around. US positions at Canada if they weren't bombed. US positions at Canada if they were bombed.
3. US hits Algeria and Norway.
4. US liberates Karelia if needed.
T5 Marines flood Europe despite bombers bc dice and money and math.
Axis plan is:
Germany Bomber blasts US T2 hope it's enough blitzes Africa.
Japan plan must eliminate India before Moscow. Doable.
Germany grinds with Russia. Japan grinds with Russia.
Need dumb luck on dice and for Allies to not make perfect moves. (Turn 1 purchases must be EXACT. Japan largely needs transports. UK is on tank duty basically whole time.)
India needs to fall fast because Japan STILL needs to race to Moscow. Both Axis need to do 2 things each: Russia, Africa, India, Russia.
UK only needs to do India really.
Russia only needs to pull back to defend from Japan an masse and mainly needs to do Germany.
Only US has two jobs, and they're Not "Europe and Pacific"-- they're Norway and Algeria.
Once first American European contact is made then it's time to put together D-Day. America can race to Russia before Japan can.
That is the problem.
@@darthparallax5207 the advantage is def on the side of the allies but I believe there are some inaccuracies in your breakdown. First of all UK cannot purchase an aircraft carrier and a factory on t1. That exceeds their beginning ipcs. Even with abandoning the Pacific it's going to be a couple of turns before the us can bring enough force to invade with a deciding force in Finland or Algeria. By that time UK according to your breakdown UK has either purchased an aircraft carrier for the us to land their two fighters on and could lose India anyway. Or they've purchased a factory in India and there's no aircraft carrier. Regardless, Germany should be attacking defenseless us transports. Not to mention that a competent player with Japan already has enough power and is within range to invade Alaska and make the us defend north America. If rolls go bad enough the us could even be looking at a factory in Alaska producing by t3.
India has a industrial complex
Not in this version, it doesn't.
Jonathan Meyer
Huh... I just finished a series today and I assure I didn't build one, I could be wrong...
Bro anyone got any tips for Russia taking Eastern Europe the first round and Britain stocking up on transports and battleships? It is literally invincible, I came up with the Russian and British move and showed my buddy and I can’t beat it myself, the only possible way is to get to get incredibly lucky with Germany and knock almost all of Britain’s navy, but that’s not likely. I would break it down but it’d be too long
It's hard to say for certain without knowing troop distributions, but my initial thinking is that Germany should either strike from Germany/Southern Europe/Caucus and crush the Russian force in Eastern Europe (leaving enough air force behind to deal with the British navy on turn 1, with an eye toward pushing on toward Karelia on turn 2 and then Moscow on turn 3.
If Karelia is looking weak enough on Germany's turn 1, it could alternatively attack that territory from Caucus and Finland/Norway while simultaneously attacking Eastern Europe from Germany and Southern Europe. In both options, Germany can make use of it's Baltic Sea transport to shuttle just a little bit more into Karelia and it's Medit fleet can do the same in Eastern Europe. Granted, that means sacrificing other options in the Medit, but if it looks like there's real potential to bring down Russia very early on I'd say it's worth it to leave Egypt alone. If Russia is likely to look particularly weak after Germany's first turn, it might even be worth leaving the British navy alone and instead throw those extra planes toward the offensive in the east to make it even more potent.
The thing is, even if I can get back Eastern Europe first round (which I always do) the force in Karelia is almost always enough to come back in and take it and if it is not Karelia reinforces and Britain hits wherever I am weakest. Russia gets paid 27-30 every round which lets them buy 2 tanks on Russia which can go anywhere and then 3 more infantry on Karelia. Stack that with Britain, and it’s very hard for Germany to even pose a threat to Russia. Would you recommend sacrificing German Air Force first round to hit Britain’s navy? I often do but if those battles don’t go my way obviously it feels like the game is already over. If America gets involved it makes it that much harder.
I suppose it’s just very frustrating because if I’m playing axis it’s fun to attack, that’s what makes them exciting and makes for a rewarding win, but with this strategy I’ve never even threatened Karelia but one time and that was because I got incredibly lucky on infantry rolls. Hell I wasn’t even able to hold Ukraine, Eastern Europe, and Western Europe for more than 2 Rounds.
@@JonathanMeyer84 I forgot to mention this, the whole idea behind attacking Eastern Europe when I started doing it was not to keep it round 1(I would normally just leave 1 infantry there), but to prevent 4 tanks from attacking Karelia, if you repeatedly do this with a wealthy British Navy, Germany’s chances of taking Karelia go down astronomically.
@@PazzyRT Yeah, you really have to play with the rule that Russia can't attack on the first turn to make this version even remotely balanced.
@@JonathanMeyer84 what about German fleet ? Are u going to sacrifice it ?
I would buy turn1 an aircraft carrier and a fighter in Baltic sea (or mediteranean if russia has too much planes. Then sink English fleet with planes and leave one of my Sub in England Sea to stop planes from passing. Then move Mediteranean and baltic fleet in Atlantic (leaving 2 tanks in algeria).
So big pressure on England and US (they will use their money to protect their capitals). For US the pressure is bigger if japan sinks its fleet in Hamaï.
Turn 2 aircraft joins with battleship and transports in Atlantic (the strategy is to be able from there to go everywhere : brazil, us, canada, uk, karelia...).
Meanwhile, I would try not to fight Russia, buy some time so japan comes and africa falls into Romels hands. Then Africa corp would go to India if still holding or open another front in south of Moscou. Karelia would devide its forces :D