Remember that the giants came after a scene in which he ate a bunch of strange mushrooms out of desperation. I think it was a hallucination, and also a test of his courage.
It also represents one of the movie's themes, the fact that Gawaine doesn't really want to undergo the real hardships of questing in order to carve out his legend. He asks them if he can hitch a ride on them, instead of wanting to make the hard trek the way a real knight-errant would. He literally wanted to "stand on the shoulder of giants" while thinking big of himself.
Usually, yeah. Although sometimes the character has an arc that rejects the theme and is punished for it, like in a negative arc, and every once in a while the arc takes place in the world or in surrounding characters, like in a neutral arc.
The "more often than not" is a vague way of saying it's a serviceable definition in most instances, but it can get complicated when you consider other factors such as the flat character arc, active v. passive protagonists; supposed character-driven vs. so-called plot-driven narratives; wants v. needs; goals v. consequences; external conflict v. internal conflict. All of these muddy the definition of PLOT. It's widely agreed upon that story has to do with character, such that change occurs through a character's actions and choices. However, certain stories with disconnected events from those choices, arbitrarily connected to their themes, can still fall under the idea of "plot" but some, myself included, feel disingenuous referring to these kinds of narratives as having plot, when other narratives exist with active protagonists that move the plot through their actions, where the goals and direction is clearer and written by the character actions. Think Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest or even something as straightforward as Kung Fu Panda. With this rigid idea of plot being directed by a character's action towards a goal, we exclude stories that Hayao Miyazaki tends to write: My Neighbor Totoro, Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, Ponyo, and The Wind Rises. These narratives have events that occur, but they are either without a clear "sequence" in its events or the character's themselves are absent- yet still with much critical acclaim, because it did much to capture an "experience". Think Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone or other genre narratives like Horror and Survival Crisis narratives. These stories can do plots, where the external goal is to escape or survive, but they may do little outside of establishing characters, only so that we actually care about their escape or survival. Their main focus is first and foremost the EXPERIENCE.
I now conclude that you must refer to every medieval naked giants that you see in a video you make as a reference to AoT. I’m serious Mac. It’s like the “Dark Souls” comparison meme.
Plots... are like puzzles. They speak to the mind, not to the heart. A good movie touch the heart without insulting the mind, with both a relatable and emotional story, and an intricate and fascinating plot.
This is a take I disagree with. You went headfirst into the story/plot dichotomy but you’re omitting the concept of character. A story isn’t just some “details” and some overarching themes, it’s a representation of human behavior. Fictional characters are entities with their own flaws, arcs & tendencies. They’re not just vehicles for a “greater thematic contention.” I think a more accurate model would be to describe story as plot driven by character. The plot of the green Knight only exists because of Gawain’s personal traits. Yes, his development is represented symbolically at times. But he is ultimately a fictional person undergoing change & making choices that drive the plot from scene to scene. For all (sane) human beings, emotional causality is a real, trackable phenomenon. Good emotional causality is what allows us to empathize with characters.
I saw this with my dad. My dad and I have varying tastes in movies--usually, we like the same films. But sometimes I'll go to see something like Uncut Gems or The Lighthouse with him and, while I liked it, he'll say nothing but bad things about the movie. The Green Knight is an interesting case because he wasn't as transfixed by it as I was, but it gave us something to talk about for the next few days.
@@andrewstephens5885 oh, he fucking HATED it. It's worth noting that me and my dad are both autistic. I knew what I was getting myself into. He didn't. Kind of feel bad for asking to go see that with him lol
Honestly that’s how it is with my mom! Actually, sometimes my dad too (he didn’t like the “Snowpeircer” or even “HER” even though he’s into really cool and weird movies… oh well)
I also think there's a large theme of power in the green knight movie. The climax of the film we see that if the unworthy knight becomes king, things will go badly. When the main character gets his first taste of real power over another's life (ie the Green Knight offered him the power to damage him however he pleases) the main character doesn't handle it well. In the finale we see that with more power the main character would only commit more terrible selfish Acts that would bring ruin to those around him. I've heard it said that Tolkien was very inspired by the Green Knight. I've also heard it said that one of the main themes in tolkien's work is that how we act in everyday small things will carry into how we act in extraordinary circumstances. I feel like that same theme is present here in the Green Knight.
TYSM for sharing this! I rewatch this video a lot because it helps me refocus on my writings. I have only read this comment today, and the last bit, *it's the miniscule everyday things we do that will carry to how we act in extraordinary circumstances* is profound. ❤
The image Gawain alone with the Green Knight and finally staying true, facing his death so could live with himself... A beautiful scene and such amazing catharsis
I always took the giant scene as gaiwan walking in the wake of giants (literally). he feels worthless in comparison to other knights much more noble than himself so he goes on this journey to cement his seat at the round table and prove he can be great too. every part of his journey in some way shows his lack of self worth and his less than noble intentions.
Movies with great stories always age like fine wine. The more you think about them the more you can appreciate the ideas and themes being presented. There are movies I have seen once or twice but I have probably thought about hundreds of times after watching them.
The green knight is such a fun little story, this looks macabre. I agree with you, story should figure more heavily in modern screenwriting, over plot.
I didn't see the ending as ambiguous, I saw it as him letting him go with a metaphorical beheading. Its been very interesting to see people perception of films and TV this year. And ive been on a completely different wave everytime! With Squid Game, Malignant, and this! Which I just watched and really enjoyed!
Great video; one of the best things a movie can ever do is make the viewer think and not just consume. Also I have to say the portrayal of the old King Arthur in this was pure kino, and is probably the closest we'll ever get to the Arthurian mythos being captured by an actually talented film-marker that can portray even a sliver of what the atmosphere of the early middle ages might have felt like
I'd say it was probably equal parts story and plot that inspired me to become a writer. Plot because I've always thought things like wizards and space battles are cool as hell and they inspire me no end, and story because I largely disagree with most of the ones I've read and watched and want to refute them, heh heh
Honestly as much as I appreciate ambiguous ending of the movie I still do prefer the ending of original story. Failure in the face of death that ties into larger story of failure in Arthurian legends. Movie is a bit too much like a fairy tale, as many of the adaptations of older myths. I guess here needs to be a joke about failed ending being true reference to AoT, but movie's ending is not actually bad =)
Im in my first year of studying film, and the way you describe plot and story is what in my class we call form and content (to be clear im not saying your wrong im Just saying it means the same in this comment). Form is what is put in front of the camera, how the camera is used, sound design and editing. While content is the story you want to tell, and i agree fully when you say that the form and content ratio in a film is uneven. The greatest form is hollow without the content. A film maker has to nail both, and that to me seems to be the true challenge of filmmaking. (and thats why it blows my mind every time i see a real good movie)
They should make a movie, where the green knight, while reading the green book, along with the band green day, they witness a murder, so they get stuck in a skinhead club, fighting nazi jean luc picard, and then they get saved by the green lantern.
When on the internet, I sometimes have the feeling of general thinking becoming dumber and filled with rage, because of how easy it is to just spew content to a large quantity of people. Sometimes I think the opposite, since we can now be more aware of varied perspectives, and progressively build more complex thinking. Quite dichotomic, but anyways. Your videos always make me feel the latter : )
Awesome video. My favorite movie in years. Thought the ambiguous ending was great since to me, because it ending when Gaiwan changed as a character it, showed that the character change was more important than the outcome of the beheading.
You manage to catch my interest on topics I don't particularly care about. I came here because of your video about experiencing the red pill, but I take it as a testament to your analysis. Bravo.
I finally got around to watching this film, and goddamn have I been missing out. I adore everything about the movie and am glad there are still stories like this being made.
The Green Knight is the story of Camelot being saved from a Tyrant King by the Tyrant-King-to-be himself. Whether it's because the main character changes into a better type of king or because he allows himself to die rather than allowing an unhonorable man like himself to sit the throne and torment those he loves, the main character is still saving the kingdom and saving the kingdom is what a good knight supposed to do.
And that is exactly why it bounced off of so many people. I've seen so many "I fell asleep in the theater" and "He's just walking" comments; it's unreal. And they didn't get the ending, thought that it did or said nothing. I'm completely baffled by how someone could watch this movie and say "nothing happens" or "that is has no story". It's a tale that has probably been told since we developed the capability of creating them - honor and the value of your word are primal subjects of discussion. Also, I love the fact that the ending was left open. In my mind, Gawain was both spared and beheaded. The old Gawain is now dead, as evidenced by the "beheading", thus allowing him to take his proper path. That doesn't say that doing what's true to yourself will always lead to good things, but rather that it is best to be true to yourself regardless of the repercussions. Lovely video about one of my favorite films of the past 5-10 years.
The first time I watched the movie, I was so confused. Because there are parts of the movie that seems to happen merely because they do. Like the lady in the castle at the end of the journey looking exactly like the woman he loves. Those giants appearing out of nowhere. That gay kiss Gawain shared with the hunter. Him turning into bones after being tied up by the thieves, etc etc. From a lot of movies I've seen, I would think that that is a major flaw because things just happen without any actual reason. But I think this video answered that lingering question in my head. I realized that this movie really doesn't bother with the plot and its main focus is in the character. I didn't realize this until the ending because from the start of the movie to him escaping the beheading, I thought his character just never develops and it was shown through his journey how dishonorable he is. He has no etiquette when entering a house that is not his own, he was a stingy man who gives little to the people who helped him, he requested a reward from a dead woman who seeks his help, he is still a man consumed by lust and is in no way capable of being a knight. The only thing that sorta disturbs me is how in the hell is Gawain capable of looking into the future? Cuz this vision literally shifted his character pretty quickly. On my book, I would think that this is a rushed character development. Is it fair to compared it to Ellie sparing Abby in TLOU 2? Because through out the journey, he doesn't developed. He is still the same naive man from the beginning and the encounters he faced proved that. That I think is the only big problem I have with the film, maybe someone could explain this to me
fun fact Stephen Fry penned an unmade Doctor Who story originally for S2 but then got bumped up to S3 based around the Arthurian legend of the Green Knight which supposedly had alien origins too it
I wanted to like it, I went into it expecting art over spectacle and all that jazz, but it just felt overly indulgent in how it told its simple story and had a fair amount of just uncomfortable sex stuff that makes it hard to recommend. Like that it exists, and appreciate that it wasn't another sequel or reboot but... 4/10 for me.
In the original poem he gets the “magical” girder (it’s not really magic) from the Lord’s wife, but omits it from the “things he received that day at the castle” that he agreed to give to the lord (showing his cowardice), so the green knight doesn’t kill him but does give him a permanent scar on the back of his neck, a symbol of Gawain’s cowardice and failure, he has to carry it with him for the rest of his life.
Yes and no. The theme is often expressed by the story, but a film can also have other themes not related to the protagonist's arc. It could be said to be the "main theme" I suppose.
I loved this film, and I remember an add on insta talking about how it’ll be on dvd soon… and the comments were fucking horrible. Don’t get me wrong, have your opinion, but holy shit I didn’t realize a lot of people hated this one… for a completely understandable reason. It’s uncomfortable, and will show you absolute truth when it comes to death… soooo yeah, one of my favorites of all time.
One thing everyone seems to forget is that this movie's initial catalyst was Gawain's mother Morgana, with her coven, summoning/evoking/conjuring The Green Knight at the beginning of the movie. Though the initial results she was hoping to achieve by doing so may seem (deliberately?) ambiguous I believe it was ultimately to create the conditions and circumstances, at one stage or another, for her son to qualify for the crown. She also gave him the enchanted protective garter, and was behind everything that was happening at the Lord's castle (which was heavily implied to be an illusion.) She practically instigated and mapped out his whole quest, through either deliberately planned out design or improvised necessity (depending who she was hoping would initially challenge The Green Knight etc.) She is the active protagonist of the story, and Gawain is the passive protagonist and vehicle for her ambitions for him, with The Green Knight himself being both antagonist and means to Gawain's fortune.
Not that it matters much, but traditionaly, "story" and "plot" are used completely opposite to how you've used them. From Encyclopedia Britannica: "According to E.M. Forster in Aspects of the Novel (1927), a story is a 'narrative of events arranged in their time-sequence,' whereas a plot organizes the events according to a 'sense of causality.' If I remember correctly, the example he gives is "'The king died and then the queen died,' is a story. 'The king died and then the queen died of grief,' is a plot."
I think this video is confusing THEMES with STORY. A STORY and a PLOT are synonymous with one another. But when this video asks why a PLOT isn't memorable that ISSUE has nothing to do with the STORY, as both the Story/Plot are one in the same. It has more to do with THEMEATIC CONSISTENCY. I would also argue that TRANSFORMERS has neither a strong Plot/Story NOR good THEMEATIC CONSISTENCY which is why that franchise sucks.
Story is often used as a stand in for theme however. So for example "it is a story of revenge" etc. I suppose you could say that you could reframe "plot vs. story" as "plot vs. theme" or even "story vs. theme" but this will vary from person to person depending on how they define certain things. In your eyes, plot and story are synonymous, while in mine story and theme are.
Having read the original poem years ago, I was really looking forward to seeing this movie. Watching it I really enjoyed a lot of the creative liberties David lowery took, I especially love the green knight’s design. The abrupt ending really left me feeling like it was incomplete and I remember going home from the theater feeling mixed on the entire experience. But the more I think about it, the more perfect I think the ending is. I don’t know about anyone else, but I can’t wait to buy the blu-ray.
Finally watched last night, its really pretencious, hammers its symbolism, has awful dialogue, but i loved it all. i think he survives at the end, because of the delivery of the final line plus if he did died, it would literally be the last temptation of christ, like it would be the exact same ending.
I think too there was a hint towards temptation in the scene with the giants cause it happened after the encounter with the desirable woman... and then he sees a tall naked woman giant.....painting homage to his falling to the temptation of sleeping with the other woman
I thought it was really well made but I just throught it strayed too far from the theme of the original. The main concept within it is preservation of the natural world visualised through the knights green nature and Gawain is tested through him choosing not to kill a fox when pressured by a hunter that's where it comes to the narrative, so it deals with the concept of not resorting to acts of violence and I stead choosing to care. Although I really liked the new added themes I think that just the idea of Gawain becoming honourable didn't have the punch than the original of him learning to care for the world around him for such an early sign of the concept in a time where pacifism was rarely explored through its storys.. Its not that I think it is a bad theme I just thought that these themes in accordance would result in a stronger product. All other elements of the film were great though.
I disagree that Star Wars has the same story as HP and the Matrix as Luke repeatedly gets his ass kicked and only wins via convincing Vader to redeem himself Both HP and The Matrix has the protagonist defeating the antagonist via a power bestowed on them via Lily's Sacrifice or that guy who monitored each One
@@MacabreStorytelling I'd say that Luke just came back from Vader sparing him in hopes of converting him to his side, so I see it as less "accepting his own death" and rather "accepting death as a possible outcome of attempting to redeem someone else"
broad strokes - blockbuster film where a sad white boy finds he has magic special powers / is the chosen one and goes on a journey to fight corrupt bad man with the help of a smart badass female friend and some other guy.
I really liked the part just before the end when Gawain said "Truly, now that I have accepted my fate, I have become The Green Knight." Also I came back to this video after watching The Northman last night because I think it makes a really interesting contrast to this. The Northman felt like it was lacking everything in "Story" that The Green Knight did right. I'd be curious to see them placed side by side.
It’s good to finally get a film that stays true to the Arthurian legend that it claims to adapt I haven’t seen it yet, but since I already intended to at some point this vid merely makes me want to do so sooner rather than later lol
Shhhhhiiiiieeeeettttt. Guess I need to watch GK again. In the meantime, here's a question: what's the genesis of this (absolutely maddening) trend in favoring plot over story?
@@MacabreStorytelling Like everything, money is the root of this evil. But can this trend's inception be pinpointed? I mean, what the hell happened that led these industry big wigs (and swarms of hack writers) to ride this godforsaken gravy train? Was it once they realized that shitty big budget movies can still make a billion dollars? And who was the outbreak monkey? The Star Wars prequels? 2 Fast 2 Furious? Transformers 2?
I'll be honest : i disagree with the conclusion , Stories are a slow clunky way of doing philosophy , wich seems to be the objective of making the viewer/reader think , wich can be done with way less inderance by actually thinking abt the real world , The main reason i started writhing at least was because i wanted a cool world and remembering the details by memory is hard and unsatisfying , I've done soo soo much world building and i've yet to write one coherent story , yet i have three folders of mostly world building , random stuff , and notes on topics i like , So yeah you maybe right , but i guess i am built different
Its not an homage to Attack on Titan its a play on the saying ''standing on the shoulders of giant'' as Gaiwan prefer to Stand on the shoulders of giant (gets all the honor with little to no effort) rather than to walk among them (learn to be an honorable Knight through trials and tribulations).
I just dont get the love for this movie, and I especially disagree with your take on the ending. I went with four other people to the theater and we all felt like our time was wasted. Gawain was a terrible protagonist who barely affected the story. Every scene that could have led to something, literally anything of consequence, ultimately didn't matter. And the ending's "ambiguity" hardly matters when we know so little about our main character, what drove him to be a knight, how he feels about his useless journey. Your quote from the director proves that he wanted the beheading, and surely it would have been more impactful that in his final moments, where he at last displays the smallest bit of honor, we see that it was too late, and the audience leaves with a lesson instead of questions of the point of it all. Why does it matter that he had the absolute minimum of character development in the final scene? Just because no one was there to see it? He knew he had no other option but to accept death, it was hardly a choice. That director quote goes on to say that he just wanted to do the Sopranos ending, and... that's just the crux of what the film was; a pathetic half-gesture at something meaningful, filled with pointless imagery and feints at grandeur of cinematography that ultimately served as nothing more than an imitation. The Sopranos ended in mystery because Tony's life would continue in mystery, forever looking up at every door that's opened to see who might enter. Inception's resolution of the spinning top didn't matter because Cobb had found closure and his children, so, awake or not, his guilt was gone. You said it yourself that Gawain surviving would have been cheap, and we know what the director said... so it's just pretentious. The beheading would have been bolder, but my time would have been wasted on the movie regardless. People may remember the Green Knight fondly, but there's little left to say of it, as hollow as it is. And in 5 years time I'm sure it will fade into obscurity much like the author of its namesake.
Ooh, this movie was terrible. And what's the opposite of white-washed? I don't see the crazy people throwing a fit that a completely white person story and culture and everything was replaced with an Indian dude for no reason other than diversity.
Was that giant's scene really supposed to be an AoT reference? There are giants all throughout medieval folklore
That's a myth spread by the filmmakers to cover their tracks.
🤣 I was so confused by that scene. The rest of the movie I loved, but that one was a truly wtf why is this here head scratching moment.
Remember that the giants came after a scene in which he ate a bunch of strange mushrooms out of desperation. I think it was a hallucination, and also a test of his courage.
It also represents one of the movie's themes, the fact that Gawaine doesn't really want to undergo the real hardships of questing in order to carve out his legend. He asks them if he can hitch a ride on them, instead of wanting to make the hard trek the way a real knight-errant would. He literally wanted to "stand on the shoulder of giants" while thinking big of himself.
Giants were real.
So if I understand correctly:
Plot = sequence of events.
Story = character arc.
Basically more often than not.
Usually, yeah. Although sometimes the character has an arc that rejects the theme and is punished for it, like in a negative arc, and every once in a while the arc takes place in the world or in surrounding characters, like in a neutral arc.
Story = theme/message of the film. I always crudely describe it as plot being the bones and story being the meat, if that makes any sense
The "more often than not" is a vague way of saying it's a serviceable definition in most instances, but it can get complicated when you consider other factors such as the flat character arc, active v. passive protagonists; supposed character-driven vs. so-called plot-driven narratives; wants v. needs; goals v. consequences; external conflict v. internal conflict. All of these muddy the definition of PLOT.
It's widely agreed upon that story has to do with character, such that change occurs through a character's actions and choices. However, certain stories with disconnected events from those choices, arbitrarily connected to their themes, can still fall under the idea of "plot" but some, myself included, feel disingenuous referring to these kinds of narratives as having plot, when other narratives exist with active protagonists that move the plot through their actions, where the goals and direction is clearer and written by the character actions. Think Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest or even something as straightforward as Kung Fu Panda.
With this rigid idea of plot being directed by a character's action towards a goal, we exclude stories that Hayao Miyazaki tends to write: My Neighbor Totoro, Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, Ponyo, and The Wind Rises. These narratives have events that occur, but they are either without a clear "sequence" in its events or the character's themselves are absent- yet still with much critical acclaim, because it did much to capture an "experience". Think Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone or other genre narratives like Horror and Survival Crisis narratives. These stories can do plots, where the external goal is to escape or survive, but they may do little outside of establishing characters, only so that we actually care about their escape or survival. Their main focus is first and foremost the EXPERIENCE.
"Off with your head" is a pretty clever double meaning. It can either mean "I'm going to cut your head off", or "leave here with your head".
I now conclude that you must refer to every medieval naked giants that you see in a video you make as a reference to AoT. I’m serious Mac. It’s like the “Dark Souls” comparison meme.
Unfortunately i have every single minute detail of Teansformers 2: Revenge of The Fallen burned deep into the recesses of my brain.
Even though it's a terrible sequel, Revenge of the Fallen is better than the abomination that is The Last Knight.
Plots... are like puzzles. They speak to the mind, not to the heart.
A good movie touch the heart without insulting the mind, with both a relatable and emotional story, and an intricate and fascinating plot.
This is a take I disagree with. You went headfirst into the story/plot dichotomy but you’re omitting the concept of character. A story isn’t just some “details” and some overarching themes, it’s a representation of human behavior. Fictional characters are entities with their own flaws, arcs & tendencies. They’re not just vehicles for a “greater thematic contention.” I think a more accurate model would be to describe story as plot driven by character. The plot of the green Knight only exists because of Gawain’s personal traits. Yes, his development is represented symbolically at times. But he is ultimately a fictional person undergoing change & making choices that drive the plot from scene to scene. For all (sane) human beings, emotional causality is a real, trackable phenomenon. Good emotional causality is what allows us to empathize with characters.
I saw this with my dad. My dad and I have varying tastes in movies--usually, we like the same films. But sometimes I'll go to see something like Uncut Gems or The Lighthouse with him and, while I liked it, he'll say nothing but bad things about the movie. The Green Knight is an interesting case because he wasn't as transfixed by it as I was, but it gave us something to talk about for the next few days.
i would’ve loved to hear what he said about uncut gems lmao
@@andrewstephens5885 oh, he fucking HATED it. It's worth noting that me and my dad are both autistic. I knew what I was getting myself into. He didn't. Kind of feel bad for asking to go see that with him lol
Honestly that’s how it is with my mom! Actually, sometimes my dad too (he didn’t like the “Snowpeircer” or even “HER” even though he’s into really cool and weird movies… oh well)
I also think there's a large theme of power in the green knight movie. The climax of the film we see that if the unworthy knight becomes king, things will go badly. When the main character gets his first taste of real power over another's life (ie the Green Knight offered him the power to damage him however he pleases) the main character doesn't handle it well. In the finale we see that with more power the main character would only commit more terrible selfish Acts that would bring ruin to those around him.
I've heard it said that Tolkien was very inspired by the Green Knight. I've also heard it said that one of the main themes in tolkien's work is that how we act in everyday small things will carry into how we act in extraordinary circumstances.
I feel like that same theme is present here in the Green Knight.
TYSM for sharing this! I rewatch this video a lot because it helps me refocus on my writings. I have only read this comment today, and the last bit, *it's the miniscule everyday things we do that will carry to how we act in extraordinary circumstances* is profound. ❤
The image Gawain alone with the Green Knight and finally staying true, facing his death so could live with himself... A beautiful scene and such amazing catharsis
I always took the giant scene as gaiwan walking in the wake of giants (literally). he feels worthless in comparison to other knights much more noble than himself so he goes on this journey to cement his seat at the round table and prove he can be great too. every part of his journey in some way shows his lack of self worth and his less than noble intentions.
Movies with great stories always age like fine wine. The more you think about them the more you can appreciate the ideas and themes being presented. There are movies I have seen once or twice but I have probably thought about hundreds of times after watching them.
The green knight is such a fun little story, this looks macabre.
I agree with you, story should figure more heavily in modern screenwriting, over plot.
Loved this review! Having studied the original poem, I am quite sure this story prompted an equally uneasy discussion in its time.
I didn't see the ending as ambiguous, I saw it as him letting him go with a metaphorical beheading. Its been very interesting to see people perception of films and TV this year. And ive been on a completely different wave everytime! With Squid Game, Malignant, and this! Which I just watched and really enjoyed!
Great video; one of the best things a movie can ever do is make the viewer think and not just consume. Also I have to say the portrayal of the old King Arthur in this was pure kino, and is probably the closest we'll ever get to the Arthurian mythos being captured by an actually talented film-marker that can portray even a sliver of what the atmosphere of the early middle ages might have felt like
I'd say it was probably equal parts story and plot that inspired me to become a writer. Plot because I've always thought things like wizards and space battles are cool as hell and they inspire me no end, and story because I largely disagree with most of the ones I've read and watched and want to refute them, heh heh
Excellent take on these concepts. I' ve read about this distinction before, but yours is clearer.
"What's left?"
THE MEMES
Honestly as much as I appreciate ambiguous ending of the movie I still do prefer the ending of original story. Failure in the face of death that ties into larger story of failure in Arthurian legends. Movie is a bit too much like a fairy tale, as many of the adaptations of older myths.
I guess here needs to be a joke about failed ending being true reference to AoT, but movie's ending is not actually bad =)
Im in my first year of studying film, and the way you describe plot and story is what in my class we call form and content (to be clear im not saying your wrong im Just saying it means the same in this comment). Form is what is put in front of the camera, how the camera is used, sound design and editing. While content is the story you want to tell, and i agree fully when you say that the form and content ratio in a film is uneven. The greatest form is hollow without the content. A film maker has to nail both, and that to me seems to be the true challenge of filmmaking. (and thats why it blows my mind every time i see a real good movie)
Great video. Finally a take on the Green Knight I agree with. Also like the story or not one has to admit the visuals of this movie are great
I really enjoyed the green knight. Went with the wife. It was just so refreshing after Disney has pretty much ruined everything to me.
Same man. My favorite movie since Annihilation.
K.
Both are garbage. This is just a different kind of garbage
We live in a sobriety...
They should make a movie, where the green knight, while reading the green book, along with the band green day, they witness a murder, so they get stuck in a skinhead club, fighting nazi jean luc picard, and then they get saved by the green lantern.
When on the internet, I sometimes have the feeling of general thinking becoming dumber and filled with rage, because of how easy it is to just spew content to a large quantity of people. Sometimes I think the opposite, since we can now be more aware of varied perspectives, and progressively build more complex thinking. Quite dichotomic, but anyways. Your videos always make me feel the latter : )
Damn. Was hoping it was the former and I would’ve pinned this shit.
@@MacabreStorytelling Aw, how could i have missed that 😆
Awesome video. My favorite movie in years. Thought the ambiguous ending was great since to me, because it ending when Gaiwan changed as a character it, showed that the character change was more important than the outcome of the beheading.
You manage to catch my interest on topics I don't particularly care about. I came here because of your video about experiencing the red pill, but I take it as a testament to your analysis. Bravo.
💓
This must be very nice to read.
Good job Mac, your work is very good.
Another educational video in the bag. Great work!
I finally got around to watching this film, and goddamn have I been missing out. I adore everything about the movie and am glad there are still stories like this being made.
The Green Knight is the story of Camelot being saved from a Tyrant King by the Tyrant-King-to-be himself. Whether it's because the main character changes into a better type of king or because he allows himself to die rather than allowing an unhonorable man like himself to sit the throne and torment those he loves, the main character is still saving the kingdom and saving the kingdom is what a good knight supposed to do.
And that is exactly why it bounced off of so many people. I've seen so many "I fell asleep in the theater" and "He's just walking" comments; it's unreal. And they didn't get the ending, thought that it did or said nothing. I'm completely baffled by how someone could watch this movie and say "nothing happens" or "that is has no story". It's a tale that has probably been told since we developed the capability of creating them - honor and the value of your word are primal subjects of discussion. Also, I love the fact that the ending was left open. In my mind, Gawain was both spared and beheaded. The old Gawain is now dead, as evidenced by the "beheading", thus allowing him to take his proper path. That doesn't say that doing what's true to yourself will always lead to good things, but rather that it is best to be true to yourself regardless of the repercussions. Lovely video about one of my favorite films of the past 5-10 years.
I always differentiated the two like (generally and simply put) plot being the what, and story being the why.
Oooh I've always wondered their differences. This'll help with the story I'm working on.
The first time I watched the movie, I was so confused. Because there are parts of the movie that seems to happen merely because they do. Like the lady in the castle at the end of the journey looking exactly like the woman he loves. Those giants appearing out of nowhere. That gay kiss Gawain shared with the hunter. Him turning into bones after being tied up by the thieves, etc etc. From a lot of movies I've seen, I would think that that is a major flaw because things just happen without any actual reason.
But I think this video answered that lingering question in my head. I realized that this movie really doesn't bother with the plot and its main focus is in the character. I didn't realize this until the ending because from the start of the movie to him escaping the beheading, I thought his character just never develops and it was shown through his journey how dishonorable he is.
He has no etiquette when entering a house that is not his own, he was a stingy man who gives little to the people who helped him, he requested a reward from a dead woman who seeks his help, he is still a man consumed by lust and is in no way capable of being a knight. The only thing that sorta disturbs me is how in the hell is Gawain capable of looking into the future? Cuz this vision literally shifted his character pretty quickly. On my book, I would think that this is a rushed character development. Is it fair to compared it to Ellie sparing Abby in TLOU 2? Because through out the journey, he doesn't developed. He is still the same naive man from the beginning and the encounters he faced proved that. That I think is the only big problem I have with the film, maybe someone could explain this to me
Now I am craving for a video with your take on "A Serious Man".
The director of this film also made A Ghost Story, which is another wonderful gem.
The purposely ambiguous ending was the best part of this movie
This channel and The Worm's Hole are such great high quality channels.
This video has really made me reevaluate how I approach the stories I write. Always quality content, thanks for your well written videos!
I feel like I get what you're saying. But I will say that a fun ride can be memorable even if that's all it is.
The ending = Schrödinger's cat
fun fact Stephen Fry penned an unmade Doctor Who story originally for S2 but then got bumped up to S3 based around the Arthurian legend of the Green Knight which supposedly had alien origins too it
My D&D game has just leveled up
I wanted to like it, I went into it expecting art over spectacle and all that jazz, but it just felt overly indulgent in how it told its simple story and had a fair amount of just uncomfortable sex stuff that makes it hard to recommend. Like that it exists, and appreciate that it wasn't another sequel or reboot but... 4/10 for me.
I need to learn king Arthur.
In the original poem he gets the “magical” girder (it’s not really magic) from the Lord’s wife, but omits it from the “things he received that day at the castle” that he agreed to give to the lord (showing his cowardice), so the green knight doesn’t kill him but does give him a permanent scar on the back of his neck, a symbol of Gawain’s cowardice and failure, he has to carry it with him for the rest of his life.
to think that Sir Gaiwan's fate could have been avoided if he just gave the green knight a haircut.
Won’t be so cocky next time… if there is one.
'Story' sound a lot like theme.
Yes and no. The theme is often expressed by the story, but a film can also have other themes not related to the protagonist's arc. It could be said to be the "main theme" I suppose.
I loved this film, and I remember an add on insta talking about how it’ll be on dvd soon… and the comments were fucking horrible. Don’t get me wrong, have your opinion, but holy shit I didn’t realize a lot of people hated this one… for a completely understandable reason. It’s uncomfortable, and will show you absolute truth when it comes to death… soooo yeah, one of my favorites of all time.
A beautiful conclusion
brilliant
I mean. If you want to know what happens after the ending just look up the original story of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight"
its a pretty classic coming of age story
The source material is wildly different to the movie, so it's ending is not relevant to the ending of the movie
One thing everyone seems to forget is that this movie's initial catalyst was Gawain's mother Morgana, with her coven, summoning/evoking/conjuring The Green Knight at the beginning of the movie. Though the initial results she was hoping to achieve by doing so may seem (deliberately?) ambiguous I believe it was ultimately to create the conditions and circumstances, at one stage or another, for her son to qualify for the crown. She also gave him the enchanted protective garter, and was behind everything that was happening at the Lord's castle (which was heavily implied to be an illusion.)
She practically instigated and mapped out his whole quest, through either deliberately planned out design or improvised necessity (depending who she was hoping would initially challenge The Green Knight etc.)
She is the active protagonist of the story, and Gawain is the passive protagonist and vehicle for her ambitions for him, with The Green Knight himself being both antagonist and means to Gawain's fortune.
Ah man, I’m so excited that you made a vid on this movie!
Wow.... just wow. Another incredible video!
How amusing to consider that Transformers is a film that rely on its "plot".
Not that it matters much, but traditionaly, "story" and "plot" are used completely opposite to how you've used them. From Encyclopedia Britannica: "According to E.M. Forster in Aspects of the Novel (1927), a story is a 'narrative of events arranged in their time-sequence,' whereas a plot organizes the events according to a 'sense of causality.'
If I remember correctly, the example he gives is "'The king died and then the queen died,' is a story. 'The king died and then the queen died of grief,' is a plot."
A film or any form of media should have a harmony between plot and story
like a human being
plot is the brain
but story is the heart
well said.
I think this video is confusing THEMES with STORY.
A STORY and a PLOT are synonymous with one another.
But when this video asks why a PLOT isn't memorable that ISSUE has nothing to do with the STORY, as both the Story/Plot are one in the same. It has more to do with THEMEATIC CONSISTENCY.
I would also argue that TRANSFORMERS has neither a strong Plot/Story NOR good THEMEATIC CONSISTENCY which is why that franchise sucks.
Story is often used as a stand in for theme however. So for example "it is a story of revenge" etc.
I suppose you could say that you could reframe "plot vs. story" as "plot vs. theme" or even "story vs. theme" but this will vary from person to person depending on how they define certain things. In your eyes, plot and story are synonymous, while in mine story and theme are.
good movie
Having read the original poem years ago, I was really looking forward to seeing this movie. Watching it I really enjoyed a lot of the creative liberties David lowery took, I especially love the green knight’s design. The abrupt ending really left me feeling like it was incomplete and I remember going home from the theater feeling mixed on the entire experience. But the more I think about it, the more perfect I think the ending is. I don’t know about anyone else, but I can’t wait to buy the blu-ray.
👍
Finally watched last night, its really pretencious, hammers its symbolism, has awful dialogue, but i loved it all. i think he survives at the end, because of the delivery of the final line plus if he did died, it would literally be the last temptation of christ, like it would be the exact same ending.
“Plot” is a sequence of events. The story is more specific.
Love it when you post
I think too there was a hint towards temptation in the scene with the giants cause it happened after the encounter with the desirable woman... and then he sees a tall naked woman giant.....painting homage to his falling to the temptation of sleeping with the other woman
Commenting to help you in the algorithm
💓
I thought it was really well made but I just throught it strayed too far from the theme of the original. The main concept within it is preservation of the natural world visualised through the knights green nature and Gawain is tested through him choosing not to kill a fox when pressured by a hunter that's where it comes to the narrative, so it deals with the concept of not resorting to acts of violence and I stead choosing to care. Although I really liked the new added themes I think that just the idea of Gawain becoming honourable didn't have the punch than the original of him learning to care for the world around him for such an early sign of the concept in a time where pacifism was rarely explored through its storys.. Its not that I think it is a bad theme I just thought that these themes in accordance would result in a stronger product. All other elements of the film were great though.
I disagree that Star Wars has the same story as HP and the Matrix as Luke repeatedly gets his ass kicked and only wins via convincing Vader to redeem himself
Both HP and The Matrix has the protagonist defeating the antagonist via a power bestowed on them via Lily's Sacrifice or that guy who monitored each One
I suppose but in both cases they needed to accept their own deaths, which is what Luke was willing to do in order to reach Vader.
@@MacabreStorytelling I'd say that Luke just came back from Vader sparing him in hopes of converting him to his side, so I see it as less "accepting his own death" and rather "accepting death as a possible outcome of attempting to redeem someone else"
broad strokes - blockbuster film where a sad white boy finds he has magic special powers / is the chosen one and goes on a journey to fight corrupt bad man with the help of a smart badass female friend and some other guy.
I'd say the answer is pretty relevant to Gawain.
Movie was great, the only thing I didnt like about it was Winifred, shes was insanely obnoxious.
Swag video
genius
I really liked the part just before the end when Gawain said "Truly, now that I have accepted my fate, I have become The Green Knight."
Also I came back to this video after watching The Northman last night because I think it makes a really interesting contrast to this. The Northman felt like it was lacking everything in "Story" that The Green Knight did right. I'd be curious to see them placed side by side.
It's very strange seeing someone say "Gah-win". I had assumed it was pronounced "Gay-o-in".
It’s good to finally get a film that stays true to the Arthurian legend that it claims to adapt
I haven’t seen it yet, but since I already intended to at some point this vid merely makes me want to do so sooner rather than later lol
Kaz Rowe made a great video about the og story, if anyone is interested:)
Sopranos already did that ending
Shhhhhiiiiieeeeettttt. Guess I need to watch GK again. In the meantime, here's a question: what's the genesis of this (absolutely maddening) trend in favoring plot over story?
Probably marketing. A catchy hook gets people into the theaters seats even if the movie is crap.
@@MacabreStorytelling Like everything, money is the root of this evil. But can this trend's inception be pinpointed? I mean, what the hell happened that led these industry big wigs (and swarms of hack writers) to ride this godforsaken gravy train? Was it once they realized that shitty big budget movies can still make a billion dollars? And who was the outbreak monkey? The Star Wars prequels? 2 Fast 2 Furious? Transformers 2?
The movie should of stuck to the book, the book was way better.
It's about the journey not the destination.
I'll be honest : i disagree with the conclusion ,
Stories are a slow clunky way of doing philosophy , wich seems to be the objective of making the viewer/reader think , wich can be done with way less inderance by actually thinking abt the real world ,
The main reason i started writhing at least was because i wanted a cool world and remembering the details by memory is hard and unsatisfying ,
I've done soo soo much world building and i've yet to write one coherent story , yet i have three folders of mostly world building , random stuff , and notes on topics i like ,
So yeah you maybe right , but i guess i am built different
Its not an homage to Attack on Titan its a play on the saying ''standing on the shoulders of giant'' as Gaiwan prefer to Stand on the shoulders of giant (gets all the honor with little to no effort) rather than to walk among them (learn to be an honorable Knight through trials and tribulations).
You’re wrong
@@MacabreStorytelling he asked for a ride
@@MacabreStorytelling ahh you're trolling🙂
@@emmanuelmondesir1314 😉
I just dont get the love for this movie, and I especially disagree with your take on the ending. I went with four other people to the theater and we all felt like our time was wasted. Gawain was a terrible protagonist who barely affected the story. Every scene that could have led to something, literally anything of consequence, ultimately didn't matter. And the ending's "ambiguity" hardly matters when we know so little about our main character, what drove him to be a knight, how he feels about his useless journey. Your quote from the director proves that he wanted the beheading, and surely it would have been more impactful that in his final moments, where he at last displays the smallest bit of honor, we see that it was too late, and the audience leaves with a lesson instead of questions of the point of it all. Why does it matter that he had the absolute minimum of character development in the final scene? Just because no one was there to see it? He knew he had no other option but to accept death, it was hardly a choice. That director quote goes on to say that he just wanted to do the Sopranos ending, and... that's just the crux of what the film was; a pathetic half-gesture at something meaningful, filled with pointless imagery and feints at grandeur of cinematography that ultimately served as nothing more than an imitation. The Sopranos ended in mystery because Tony's life would continue in mystery, forever looking up at every door that's opened to see who might enter. Inception's resolution of the spinning top didn't matter because Cobb had found closure and his children, so, awake or not, his guilt was gone. You said it yourself that Gawain surviving would have been cheap, and we know what the director said... so it's just pretentious. The beheading would have been bolder, but my time would have been wasted on the movie regardless. People may remember the Green Knight fondly, but there's little left to say of it, as hollow as it is. And in 5 years time I'm sure it will fade into obscurity much like the author of its namesake.
Well crap now I have a movie to watch
Just came back from theater.
Not only was ot dull but it was stupid. I understand creative liberties but this just butchered a poem.
Donotrecomend/10
You say his name weird
So…. Basically he was a wuss
This movie was overall a letdown for me.
Nonsensical boring slog of film.
This a great old English tale and they decided to ruin it by having the character played by an arab. It HAD to be a nonwhite person didn't it!
lol
Third?
Enjoy the videos btw lol
Sixth!!?
Ooh, this movie was terrible. And what's the opposite of white-washed? I don't see the crazy people throwing a fit that a completely white person story and culture and everything was replaced with an Indian dude for no reason other than diversity.
Or maybe he was the best person for the role?
@@MacabreStorytelling Nope
first. ye