Make a plane blade from SCRATCH (backyard heat-treating)
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
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More details in the article: bit.ly/2FRQSah
Tools in this project// Mapp-Gas Torch: amzn.to/2FJwpZx (scroll down for more)
Gas Cylinder: amzn.to/2FI5OvF
Over Thermometer: amzn.to/2tUU9V5
Angle-Grinder: amzn.to/2G3o81W
Cut-off Disc: amzn.to/2HI0jcW
There are lots of plane irons you can buy. Many of them are cheap and they suck. The good ones are pricey. The good news is that making your own iron isn't very hard and doesn't take long. You just need a heat source, a way to contain it and some oil to quench in. The rest is just careful measuring and timing...oh and not setting your shop on fire.
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_"not the pristine, beautiful hole that I had pictured in my mind"_ ... it never is, buddy. It never is.
so deep
Scott Baker but totally works!
I’m dirty minded, help
Hey whatever gets your iron hard, but not so hard it becomes brittle.
The thing about a kitchen oven is that the temperature varies within the oven, top to bottom and center to edge. So if you are going to the trouble to measure the temperature, at least put your steel right next to the thermometer.
Also, the temperature varies quite a bit over time, as the oven cycles the heat on and off to maintain the temperature. 20- or 30-F variation over time is not unusual.
If you want to be as accurate as possible, you need something with high thermal mass to smooth out the time variations. So, put a pizza stone or a big slab of steel on the oven rack, and then pre-heat it for at least an hour, with the thermometer right on your thermal mass. Then you are ready to anneal your steel.
Just an addendum here... and I know it's old.
LOTS of cabinet shops and kitchen outfitters have stone... and granite is one of my favorites for its tolerances to heat (specifically)... Just ask the shops for "ends and bits" and you generally have a good chance of sizeable pieces that are nice and flat, precision cut thickness (which is reliable) AND either cheap or free ...as in FREE! ;o)
To add to that, in my experience those cheap thermometer's are no more accurate than the oven's thermometer.
@@DementatDeus you need to calibrate them in ice water.
And? It worked didn't it?
But I guess it is a "hot" tip.
He mentioned that in the video
I appreciate the attention to safety in your video here. As a lifelong metalworker, I have a handful of fire stories and these things certainly can and do happen working with metal. Especially when complacency enters the equation. After so many years of it, you start to feel like you’ve mastered and tamed every aspect of fire... until you haven’t. Still an outrageously sneaky and dangerous force of nature.
The sharpness test at the end was amazing.
Thanks!
Great video....all the necessary information for anyone who has never done this. My first knife I treated in my Weber Grill with a large shop vac blowing air into the charcoal and an old car speaker for a magnet. Eventually worked my way through a fire brick kiln to electric heat treating oven with digital control. Have a mix of oils for quenching including a half quart of old transmission fluid. I get flashbacks of my '73 Ford van with a leaking transmission gasket when I heat treat a knife.
You could have saved yourself the trouble of making that oven contraption and just get out a charcoal barbeque and a use a hairdrier as a blower to get the fire hot enough. Afterwords you could have cooked dinner over it aswel. It would have saved you time and be a lot safer than the setup you made. Even it was a great way of solving the problem at hand. Take a look at the video's from Paul Sellers. The guy is great and he explains a lot. He is on the oposite side of the spectrum of where you are, ie he is a retired carpenter/woodworking teacher that explains how to build tools and stuff instead of buying everything.
For someone who is a hobby black smith but also wants to get into carpentry, this has been the perfect video. I like to use traditional methods when I can so what I was looking for is the color of the Iron after you tempered it because, to me, a specific temperature isn't useful to know since I don't want to do it that way. Looks like a darker straw color which is about what I was expecting but I wanted to be sure since I haven't done much tempering. Seems like you did some good research on the process. Thanks for the video.
I must say, I find it refreshing and highly respectable to see a craftsperson with a large following make an explicit and overt effort to reinforce Best Practices regarding Health and Safety. In my country, blue collar culture scoffs are PPE and following Best Practices. I did not work in the crafts, more of a factory setting as a Chemistry Technician in a small scale synthetic plant. People threw PPE and caution to the wind our of misguided beliefs it will make them more masculine.
I see Bobby Hill's face in the iron.
I am a blacksmith/bladesmith and i temper woodworking tools at 325 to 375 depending on the tool plane irons i temper at 325 chisels and wood slicks and similar tools at 350 to 375
Good for you?
The "…but not a microwave oven" made me laugh. As am ex chef I use a gun style thermometer as I find them to be the most accurate and reliable.
An absolutely fascinating video, a great watch. I like James's channels, and the man himself, like yourself he replies to every comment and question.
I think we both LIKE comments...well, most of them.
Very good video! Not too little and not too much information. Would rate this 5 stars if i could!
It's called thermal saturation. The air in the oven was 400 but the racks and walls were still pulling heat out.
I saw someone else here on youtube using a rocket stove to heat treat. No MAP gas needed - you can use up the chips and shavings and crusty offcuts from your work as heat, and then pop some food on after. It's a lot slower than a torch and firebricks even, and no serious smith would use it for heat treating, but once you have it set up, the cost is minimal for a woodworker.
(Plus you can tell your wife that the space it takes up in the garage is worth the cooking you'll do on it for her - no more charcoal for grilling)
I think I saw that video, too and I really liked it. Since I already owned the torch, this seemed like a good way to go for me. Many ways to skin this cat.
I've seen other people do this, but you gave more useful information. Thanks.
And thank you for always being such an active member of my little channel. Means a lot to me to see you popping up on every video!
Wife: Hey hun, whatcha cooking?
Rex: iron!
I'm sure the kids will love it
Rex. did you try hardening the first blade that was supposedly already hardened? I doubt it would, but it would be interesting to hear any results if you gave it a try.
Actually, it's worth pointing out here (somewhere) that "the steel is still the steel"...
If it's meant to be hardened in the first place (like tool steel) it's going to take hardening...
The only caveat here, is that some particular grades actually work better annealed (softened) first... to a "reliable consistency"... Then the standard heat treatments do just as well as "from the raw". ;o)
A Bi-Metal Hole Saw is the best readily available tool for putting a hole in thick-wall steel tube. Especially with a drill press. Done both the step-drill and hole-saw with a hammer-drill in 1/4" thick structural steel, and the hole-saw was way less of a hassle.
Also: refractory materials are hard to find, don't get me wrong, but having a ceramics supply shop nearby can make things a lot easier for the home smith.
OR... getting a pack of "ceramic brickets" from the barbecue section of any hardware or similarly inclined department or big-box store works...
AND of all things, plain old wood-ashes work WONDERFULLY with "stucco mesh" as an insulation. ;o)
Another great demonstration Rex :) Looking forward to what you will make for this blade :) ॐ
Really glad you liked it!
Thank you. This is brilliant. I'm new to the channel. I am staring to make more of my own tools on a shoe string budget. I have been struggling with so many things you have "ironed " out. The plane series is also spot on for me right now. Cheers Bruce - South Africa 🇿🇦
Thanks for the magnet tip I use to watch the color, gotta be out of direct sun light.
That’s a sweet-looking hunk of steel in the end. Can’t wait to see how it performs. Nice job, brother.
Thanks so much!
Love all of your work I'm a beginner woodworker and I've already made your japanese saw horses and I'm building the budget version of your Roman style travellers bench and it's all very smart and very well put together thank you for the information and good luck
When talking about the oil flaring up, you should remind them not to use water to put put an oil fire, as the oil will float atop the water, and may, in a worst case scenario, turn a can of flaming oil into a 5 foot diameter puddle of oil flaming atop water.
I"m sure I'm not the only person who saw the 5 gallon bucket near the oil......
Great video as always, I’m very excited about your upcoming collaboration with James. Well done!
Thanks so much!
This is not a pro tip, but I'd not keep my fire extinguisher next to "the problem". To be fair, I do keep the fire extinguisher mostly in the middle of my workshop, but I know if anything was to light on fire, first thing I'd do would be to run out. Which would require me to run back in for the fire extinguisher. So since I have no idea where to place the fire extinguisher and have no intention on buying a new one, I have no other choice than to not be stupid, but I guess you have that covered.
Rex, quick comment about oven temp: every time you open the oven it cools a little. That might explain the apparent temp inconsistency more so that imperfect oven thermostat.
Very interesting and helpful. Thanks!
Opened my mind , Great job!
You can use couple of tin cans, one inside the other instead of the tube
That's a good tip!
the pattern on the blade at the end looks like a grumpy boy's face.
Weird, right?
And thank you for the safety message!!!
"stick with cotton wool and leather when you are doing stuff like this." ...And make sure your wife is going to be gone for at least two hours!
as a hobby baker, get a large pizza stone to put in the bottom of your oven and let it heat at least an hour before using. The stone will keep any variations in air flow or uneven heating from affecting your bake by acting as a thermal mass.
Had you thought of attempting to heat treat the edger blades? Maybe it is carbon steel that just wasn't heat treated?
There are a lot of diy forges. You should make one
Did it work? Yes.. see the beautiful straw colour!!
In person it looked gold!
You can make a simple forge only using mud, hiardyer/ any fan, and wood. Shape the mud into a oval bowl shape and put a hole in the side of it to accept your air supply.
"11herbs and spices" haha you cracked me up.
I bake a lot, it will take longer but a chunk of cast iron, like a dutch oven will help regulate the temp swings in a usual oven....After it gets heat soaked.
Hey, I know this isn't your newest video, but if you still have that range at home, you may be able to find instructions to calibrate it. A lot of ovens with the digital readouts these days can be calibrated.
I wish I would have watched this before I commented on another video that you can do this lol
You clearly already knew haha
Did you ever try heat treating the edger blade to see if it just needed to be hardened?
Nicely done, Rex.
Thanks!
I realize this is an older video but I wonder if there might be a benefit pre-flattening the back just as there is to pre-grinding the bevel. Just a thought.
There is clearly a kids face on the iron at #15:04 Spooky.
He infused a soul into the iron
Spoooooky
try a hole lined with an inch of wood ashe, thats a good forge base
15:52 the puple color can come from any number of sources most likely oils from your fingers or the quench of some thing it touched including leftover pizza grease on the oven racks purple oxides dont form until the metal exceeds 500 degrees
Well I'm amazed. I would think steel would conduct heat to concentrate the heat well.
Moving your blade in the oil can cause the metal to warp the best thing to do is to move the blade in a vertical motion up and down trying to keep it straight. Until the blade is cool enough to handle without gloves. Just a recommendation. That gold color is the same concept and seasoning a cast-iron skillet. It is the oil residue remaining in the steel regardless it is still a great indication of proper tempering.
Rex, is there anything you can't do? Dang man.
Great video Rex. Obviously, you did a lot of research going in and it showed. You really should take a few hours now and make yourself a basic "coffee can" forge. It's easy and will make heat treating easier to control. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks! I want to do the coffee-can forge, but i think I might jump straight to a freon-con forge. I've got a line on a good anvil and I've already got tongs and hammers. Might as well go full-blacksmith. Probably this summer.
There you go, in for a dime in for a dollar. Next you'll be making knives...
Excellent video, Rex. Spot on information. If you've done enough research to find freon tank forges, you are well on your way. If you want to find the most authoritative info available on propane forges and burners, take a look at the Gas Forges topic at IForgeIron.com . Hundreds of years of aggregate experience there. Just beware the slippery slope of working with hot metal :-) Clyde
Used lawnmower bladed are just about the right size and thickness and free. Make a coupon for a test in oil quench. If it hardens enough to break cleanly, the steel could be used for an iron.
I've heard of the "break test"... BUT never actually seen it done.
What mechanics do you recommend???
I mean... if I stick the end in my vice, and strike it with my "breaking" hammer (or as some call it "the big F") I can pretty cleanly cleave about anything... including most stones... so I'm just a tad apprehensive. ;o)
It might have been worth noting that the temperatures mentioned were in Fahrenheit, for non-Americans. I heated my blade to 1200 Celsius instead of Fahrenheit, and it turned into a ball of melted mush..
(I didn't really, I'm just lying)
this is a great video ,,, thank you ,,,, I'm going to look at trying this later today :) looking at going to the steel recycler and get a couple of pieces and seeing what I can do :)
Man, I wish I had a good place to buy second-hand or scrap steel. For me, it's buy online, dumpster-dive it, or go the the steel distributor and pay retail. Anyway, thanks for watching and liking!
Today on Forged in Fire we send you back to your home forge to forge this 4 ft long sword........ Ah crap! Your blade sir.... It will PLANE!
So now that you have your forge setup, is there any value to reheating your edger blade(s) from the previous video? And why do i half expect to see a Damascus plane iron next week?
So, I have heat-treated and quenched a sample of that steel. Didn't harden. Not enough carbon. Drag. As to the Damascus, you're very flattering, but I'm WAY too new at metal work for that. Thanks for watching.
5:40 Another video that has Rex pauzing (ever so slightly this time...) as soon as he has mentioned Harbour Freight... the average therapist would have a field day... ;-)
Very informative. Thanks!
My pleasure!
Calibrate your oven. It's really easy and your baking will come out much better.
At 1:27...let me stop you there.... As a experienced blacksmith/bladesmith (26years blacksmithing 7 years bladesmithing) i have to correct you... Neither of those steels are easy to heat treat at home and both are very unforgiving in their heat treatment theres very specific temperatures and soak times involved...that being said O1 is a medium speed quenching deep hardening steel this means you can quench in food oils just fine with excellent hardness if you got your temp and soak time correct...1095 is a shallow hardening fast quench steel meaning its very springy when tempered (it is a spring steel afterall) it also means water or fast oil quench only if you hit the specific temperature and proper soak time (parks 50 is the recommended quench oil) ...Neither should be used by beginners you should stick with simple carbon steels ideally 1075-1080-1084 they are cheaper and give rock solid performance with even the most rudimentary understanding of heat treatment
And for the naysayers i have gone toe to toe with mastersmiths over this very thing more times than i can count and proved them wrong with some basic metallurgy knowledge which you dont need to pass the ABS mastersmith test which i think is absolutely absurd and shows little mastery
Rex are you cacnadian cause those temperatures seem a little low. I’m thinking 1800 to 2200 degree Fh. I’m mean I forged a lot of blades. So. Yeah. Call if you need a little help sometime. Oh yeah a little ceramic wool would help a lot
You forgot to make sure to alert the fire department that your playing with fire, to pre-dial your "charged" iphone with # 9-1 , (Leaving you with just the other one to press) of course, keeping the phone at fingers length... However, you crack me up, and otherwise a skilled ingenious craftsman that adapts and improvises doing anything. Finally, showing er'body how they can save money by being observant with unwanted materials that can benefit ongoing and future projects without your crown yelling at you for bringing home "schtuuff" :D. Keep the faith. God bless.
I must have done it backwards. I built a forge, built and anvil (piece of train track upside down in a cradle I made) and forged a knife. THEN I decided to start playing with woodworking (because I want to make a handle for a hatchet). So I built a foldable shave horse out of scrap wood, and now, darn you, I want to start real wood working.
Hi interesting video thanks, I received an old union plane from a neighbour which I have restored. The only issue is once I sharpened the blade on the stones it doesn’t hold an edge any more. After planing some spruce 2x lumber a few passes you can a burr form. Do you think this process would work to reharden the iron? I think if I have to spend 60 to buy a new one this things just gonna be a wall hanger unfortunately.
5160, W2, 1080, D2, H13, Even some Stainless varieties would work.
Stupid question, but is your oven showing the temperature its AIMING for , or the temperature it is currently? Because i think, that it was showing 400, but that was the target, not the current temperature.
The most accurate thing that can be said about an oven is that it's never accurate. Most ovens' thermostats are designed to let the temperature fall about 20 degrees F below the setting before kicking the heat on again, then surge 20 degrees above before cutting the heat off. And that's at the location of the thermostat -- ovens have hot and cold spots throughout the space of the box. So if tempering metal needs that level of precision, it won't be achieved in a residential oven.
If you have a sand filled metal pan that has been in there long enough it might work as a heat sink to keep the temperature more consistent.
So did you get lucky and get a hollow on the back of the blade and not a belly?
Saw you making this on Instagram, any future plan for making a more permanent forge?
Absolutely. I just found a real anvil in my parents' farm in CT. They'll bring it to me this summer and then I'll build a propane forge. I already have some tongs and hammers, so the full rig won't be hard to assemble.
@@RexKrueger, just in case you're interested, I've made several "hobby forges" out of old pipes and brake drums...
I have a pair of drums out of an old tandem axle dump-truck for my personal monstrosity... (lolz)
AND wood-ash makes some of the GREATEST insulation in the world! ;o)
With how often he sharpens his irons I'm surprised he has any arm hair left
Interesting forge! Hey, it works! That's the main thing. I'd never have thought of using that small of a pipe for a forge but, as I said, it worked!
My question is, how the heck did you get the MAPP gs to last that long! I finally quit trying to use it for anything because it runs out so quickly! I hardly ever get more than a total of 5 minutes!
Good video and everything worked!
KUDOS!
Thanks! I don't know, but my MAPP cylinders last a long time. I don't know how to explain it.
@@RexKrueger Thanks! Maybe it's the altitude! I live in Wyoming above One Mile above sea level! I can't explain it any other way!
For ovens I've found that they should soak for 20 to 30 minutes. More if there's a larger thermal mass inside (like a cast iron skillet or a baking stone or steel... not related to this video... ;)
ayyy we have the same oven
the oven :]
now i know why you fear your wife
All kidding aside, if you clean it well, it doesn't smell at all. She has no idea.
Rex, just stopping by to say great work as always. Also did you get a new camera? Video quality seems to have really improved.
Hey! It's been a while. I did not get a new camera, but my old encoding settings were messed up. I fixed them and now I've got full HD, you know, like it's 2018. Thanks for stopping by. I've missed your comments!
Sorry, life's been a wild ride lately. In the last few months we bought a home, sold a home, had to back out of the home we bought as it had a bad foundation, totaled a car, back up car caught on fire, were homeless for a while, lived in an apartment for a while and finally bought a new to us home and car. Life is finally starting to normalize a bit.
Jesus! I haven't been through the ringer like that, but my family has lived in 6 homes in four states over the last 10 years, so I totally get how life can go sideways on you. Glad things are stabilizing. It's a great feeling to not be consumed by stress every minute of every day.
It is indeed. When we were younger (before kids) the wife and I lived in 10 homes/apartments in 4 states in 10 years. That was actually fun as we got to see people from all around the country and experience a lot. I also got really good at moving, hahaha...
@@slowdaze oh god you have gone through a lot!
Does leaf spring need heat treatment before shaping it into a blade plane? Hasn't it already heat treated in the the factory that made it?
leaf spring won't be hardened to blade hardness,because that makes it brittle and easy to crack. springs HAVE to flex. and it's better to cut and shape your blade BEFORE you harden it,then do the final flattening and bevel finishing,stropping.
Ever try A2 steel?
Nope. I'm very happy with plain, high carbon steel. Easy to heat-treat. Worked for centuries.
If it breaks great, if if bends, either the tempering process wasn't correct or there isn't enough carbon in the steel to make it suitable for cutting tools.
So now we know Rex only is allowed to work when the wife is not at home. Been there.
Just a joke.
15:10. Looks like a face on the back of the iron
Yes, nordic with beard.
if you look at the iron at the right angle there appears to be a face on there from the tempering ...creepy
I was wondering if I was the only one who saw that.
It looks like a grumpy toddler to me.
I noticed that too, Stigmata hahaha.
15:05 gold is not a correct indicator for tool steels as all tools need different hardness to be ideal
The Wife comes home, "Rex have you been baking? What did you bake?" Rex: "Just some plane iron."
Also does anyone else see something similar to a face in his heat treat pattern at: ruclips.net/video/AdedMoK7-U4/видео.html
Did you mean 14:24
... Well.. if you spot-heated the tube enough to soften it a bit, you should be able to drill it...
Old plane's Irons were tapered in width: more beef at the cutting edge and thinner the oppoite size. could we replicate this using non specialist tools?Secondly how could i check my grinding angle is correct while using bench grinder?Many thanks
Those are REALLY good questions. As to the taper, it mostly helps with the wedging action of older planes; it's not necessary on a plane like this. Just use a thicker hunk of steel (I used 3/16) and have more beef the whole way down. And if you really want to taper an iron, I'd just use a belt sander. To check your cutting angle, use a protractor to strike a 25 or 30 degree angle across the corner of an old credit card. Cut that angle with a knife and a straight-edge and you'll have an angle template. Put the straight side of the template on the tool-rest (buy or build a good one that's easy to adjust) and then adjust until the angle you cut is up against the wheel. Hope that helps!
many thanks! i believe i will become your patreon very soon. Do you think the "lever cap" method you showed us in hand plane construction part.2 will work fine for a jointer hand plane?
Absolutely! If you're making it out of wood, it should be something strong (oak?) and leave it thick (3/4ish). You can also make good ones out of soft metals like aluminium and brass. Those are easy to work but stronger than wood. I have several posts on this, including sneak-peaks of the upcoming plane build on my Patreon page, so for $2, you can get some more information right now. No pressure!
14:45color means absolutely nothing at all use a brand new Mexican made black diamond Nicholson file they are tempered to 64 hrc if the file barely bites and leaves heavy scratches on your tempered blade it will be fine for a plane and isnt too soft
1095 is not really beginner friendly... it has less manganese and more carbon than other 10xx steels, making the heat treatment process less forgiving. 1075/1084/15N20 is way better for people starting out 👍
I don't know. I got it right on my first try...and my second...and my third. Doesn't seem too tough to me.
@@RexKrueger I'm glad you are happy with the results you have had.
Still, to get the most out of the steel/heat treat 1095 will have the best results when the heat is consistent and measured, the steel is soaked at temperature, and a fast quenching oil is used. 1084 will give better more consistent results and end up a little tougher using the methods in the video 👍
Yeah you should really let the oven warm up before sticking anything in (;
I just laughed at the part where you had to remind people not to put any metal in the microwave.
Actually not that dangerous: ruclips.net/video/OyTmJX_TC84/видео.html
12:20 ....375 is perfectly acceptable to tempr plane knives
I'll make a video to show you how to easily degrease your oven to showroom clean
14:33 Am I the only one that can see the face of Jesus in your plane blade?
Put it in kitchen owen . Done
when you said 400 degrees in the kitchen oven i thought whaat 400 C in a kitchen oven???? then i remembered americans use fahrenheit
yeah we speak and measure in freedom over here.
Was anyone else waiting for the plane iron to not fit? 😂😂😂
I can't believe you feel it necessary to tell someone not to use a plastic container for quench oil... Oh, wait...
sticking your torch in pipes may not be a great idea. Bad place to get bit by a spider.
It will keel....
Greetings from the ph
And remove some arm hair! I always picture dudes at knife shows with patchy arms. You know before you do this it is sharp! So don't! Ha ha Great show though!