Yeh, I agree, kick starting a bike you love at the beginning of a ride is a satisfying experience. Its a bit like lighting a logfire, the preparation the anticipation and finally "Ignition" and the fuel suddenly explodes into vibrating, raucous, noisy life as the valves and pistons start thrashing about and the exhaust thunders at the slightest twist of the throttle....
Thank goodness for an intelligent essay on the joys of riding pre-electronic bikes. I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment and I so wish my 05 T100 Bonnie had a kickstart. Maybe some one like Allen Millyard will put his genius solving the problem.
I have a 1200 Triumph scrambler which is a lovely machine. However I also own a Triumph T140 which is a totally different experience and I feel more connected to it, it has a much more satisfying riding experience right from the start.
I've had my 78 T140V for 29 years, and I know how to start it first kick every time. When I bought a second bike 6 months ago as a winter runabout, I made sure it had a kickstart as well as electric, a 1980 Suzuki GS550. It's also mechanically simple and easy to work on (I'm a retired mechanic). Although the electric start has been totally reliable so far, I still kickstart it at least once every day I use it to make sure it will work if I need it (my old joints aren't up to running up and down the road to bumpstart it any more). As far as I'm concerned, the less technology, the better, although I do make an exception for electronic ignition - I got fed up with cleaning and adjusting points years ago.
You really hit the nail on the head with this. Kick starting a bike is just straight up, Steve McQueen cool. It's not sterile and convenient. It harkens back to a time when a man looked like he knew what he was doing instead of just expecting to be gratified with no effort on his part.
Yes, it's a strange thing. My 2010 Rocket III is an enormous bike; smooth, powerful and immensely reliable...until it isn't. Then it's enormously difficult to work on. Fuel injection is magnificent, until it isn't and then the fuel pump is in the tank and the procedure becomes convoluted and complicated. The T140D I recently owned was literally a third the size of the Rocket III, yet felt like twice the bike. Older bikes are definitely less reliable, but eminently more fixable, even on the side of the road. Watching some of the videos made by young ( hipster) guys who have a passion for older bikes; old Triumphs, BSAs, Shovel head Harlies etc, the kick start ritual is almost a rite of passage. Every bike should have one.
Another interesting, informative and thoroughly enjoyable video share; thanks. I think you are spot on to explain the visceral pleasures of kick starting an old bike with all the procedural nuances that go with the bike’s explosion in to life. I also believe there’s more emotional satisfaction when kick starting your bike than just pressing a starter button. As you say, the starter is fine for the older or injury-laden chap, and lord knows, we’re all on that journey when we shall have to consider the starter button and lightweight bikes. But let’s hold off for as long as possible. I own a little Kawasaki Z650b1 which comes with both kick starter and electric starter and kicking her over does give the extra satisfaction. Lovely roads and scenery in this video, by the way.
I totally agree with you, I love old motorcycles especially Triumphs, and like you love the kick start, I’ve no interest in owning a new hi tech bike, it would do my head in with all those different settings to choose from, good old fashioned low tech motorcycling is more fun, the only modern tech on my bikes is electronic ignition, for reliability. 👍
I have an XS650 that is kick-start only, because the starter was filled with oil (common fault once they get old) and as a starter-deleted bike it's fine. Starts easily and does feel more connected, somehow. At some point I'll rebuild the starter, but I'm in no rush. Similarly, the older of the GS850s has a kicker and that was handy to have on more than one occasion. The later one is electric-only, and while I've never been stranded because the starter didn't work (I've had to bump it once or twice), the presence of a kicker would have been very useful on those occasions.
P.S. I love the cowhorn bars. I have the standard English pull backs. 1"" width from Norman Hyde... please don't knock me for fantasising I'm on a T150. :-)
im 59 got a t140d and a t150v love em both ,dont want a modern bike too mutch crap on them,my modern bike is a 1980 gs850g i do all my owm maintenance and they r all part off me,euro 5.injection ,rider mode bla bla bla bloody nonsense.
I have never considered it in quite that much depth, but having said that I think a kickstart is vital for many reasons, including starting with a low battery, turning the engine slowly when working on it, feeling the compression to check / compare where there is more than one cylinder, etc, etc. Most of my machines are kick only, a couple have kick and electric start, though. The only electric start only machine I owned was a Honda VF400F I bought new in the day, but I didn't keep it for long as it felt too sterile and modern for me. There are no modern [post 1980] machines of much interest to me and fuel injection, ABS and all the electronic gadgetry are a big turn off for me.
I agree with what's said just so long as it starts when kicked. It's all well and good a bike having character unless that character decides not to start. Starting first kick is great 10 kicks not so good
Those look a bit like the exhausts I was thinking of getting from the classic shop for my interceptor - do yours have baffles? All I think might be useful to me on new bikes is ABS - and then not always.
These exhausts do have baffles and they are actually not very loud. This bike has ABS - no matter how hard you pull on that brake level, the wheel does not lock up 😁
A freshly rebuilt engine with new parts and more, needs some time to learn its new quirks and foibles. With flip chokes, just one lever, half lifted and a tad of throttle, is now on cables and needs both chokes fully lifted and no throttle. Finding out and adjusting settings can make me wish for an electric leg at times
I was(still am) a bit scared of my Bonny having only kicked it over a few times. I’m waiting for the dreaded kick back as the last bike I kicked over was my fizzer
Yamaha were considerate in fitting a decompressor lever to make the task of starting an XT500, a lot easier. It didn’t stop the XT kicking back like an obstinate mule and injuring riders who got it wrong! I’m now on my 3rd aircooled GS1200 and I’ve got 3 mates who bought waterboxers, who have since sold them to again buy 2010-12 GSAs...citing the later GS to be too digital. Analog bikes rule, they are a more visceral experience, thus more engaging a ride! Just saying...
My T160 and GL1000 has both , and my 73 Norton 750 just a kick lever , lm more used to the K lever , and knowing what is required, or if something is lean or Rich , advanced or retarded , you definately have to develop a feel for a 8 second tickle or a 3 second tickle etc .
Any film depicting bikers in the fifties/sixties/seventies will have a close-up of the kickstart being used. Its like like a visual expression of testosterone with a hint of possible violence. Imagine Marlon Brando about to move on and terrorise a new town, with a close up of his thumb on a button and hearing the strangled whine of a little electric motor.
There is no new modern motor bike , retro or classic, or any other type except maybe offroad, that you can buy, that comes with a kickstarter! None at all! If you want to buy one, you only have AJS 125 chinese made bikes which still come with a kick starter. Just because modern bikes don't (most of the time) need one, (batteries are more reliable) its not a good enough reason to deprive their owners from having one! Kawasakis new W230 modern classic 250cc bike is a very lovely retro vintage looking motor bike, but instantly fails because , how many real vintage motor bikes from the 1960s and 1970's don't have a kickstarter, none! Its a very sad situation, especially if you want to be able to kick start your bike sometimes, so unless you buy a proper vintage bike , you aint getting a kickstarter on any new motor bike , zilch , zero, none anymore, ever!
Kick-starting is never a problem if the machine is tuned and well maintained. Old bikes were lighter than their modern counter parts, handled better and usually had more power. Of course, the vibration from a 360 degree parallel twin would numb your hands, bum and feet after a decent 100 mile run, unless you could afford a Norton with isolastics. Phil Irving suggested putting the crankshaft at 72 degrees in the 1950's, but what would he know. I always carry a basic tool kit, spare fuses, electrical tape, tube patches and have always made it home. (maybe with a few miles of pushing sometimes). Modern bikes have astonishing performance, but if anything goes wrong, it is a trailer job. Even basic servicing has to be done by the dealer because of the complicated technology. I find that riding over 70 miles per hour, (110 kph) is uncomfortable due to the wind, unless you have a fuel guzzling fairing or want to lie on the tank and have a bad back in later life. I prefer the simpler, older motorcycles as I am well into my seventies and getting simpler by the day. Good luck to the young fellows. I suppose they can plug in a tablet or 3D print a gasket in a WiFi hamburger shop. As long as you enjoy riding your bike; that is the main thing.
Yeh, I agree, kick starting a bike you love at the beginning of a ride is a satisfying experience. Its a bit like lighting a logfire, the preparation the anticipation and finally "Ignition" and the fuel suddenly explodes into vibrating, raucous, noisy life as the valves and pistons start thrashing about and the exhaust thunders at the slightest twist of the throttle....
Thank goodness for an intelligent essay on the joys of riding pre-electronic bikes. I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment and I so wish my 05 T100 Bonnie had a kickstart. Maybe some one like Allen Millyard will put his genius solving the problem.
Great description of the joys of a kickstart! The opening shot is lovely too.
I have a 1200 Triumph scrambler which is a lovely machine. However I also own a Triumph T140 which is a totally different experience and I feel more connected to it, it has a much more satisfying riding experience right from the start.
I've recorded another video comparing the modern T120 to the Classic T140. It will be appearing on my channel soon.
@@SongsFromTheSaddle look forward to seeing it 👍
I've had my 78 T140V for 29 years, and I know how to start it first kick every time. When I bought a second bike 6 months ago as a winter runabout, I made sure it had a kickstart as well as electric, a 1980 Suzuki GS550. It's also mechanically simple and easy to work on (I'm a retired mechanic). Although the electric start has been totally reliable so far, I still kickstart it at least once every day I use it to make sure it will work if I need it (my old joints aren't up to running up and down the road to bumpstart it any more). As far as I'm concerned, the less technology, the better, although I do make an exception for electronic ignition - I got fed up with cleaning and adjusting points years ago.
You really hit the nail on the head with this. Kick starting a bike is just straight up, Steve McQueen cool. It's not sterile and convenient. It harkens back to a time when a man looked like he knew what he was doing instead of just expecting to be gratified with no effort on his part.
Yes, it's a strange thing. My 2010 Rocket III is an enormous bike; smooth, powerful and immensely reliable...until it isn't. Then it's enormously difficult to work on. Fuel injection is magnificent, until it isn't and then the fuel pump is in the tank and the procedure becomes convoluted and complicated. The T140D I recently owned was literally a third the size of the Rocket III, yet felt like twice the bike. Older bikes are definitely less reliable, but eminently more fixable, even on the side of the road. Watching some of the videos made by young ( hipster) guys who have a passion for older bikes; old Triumphs, BSAs, Shovel head Harlies etc, the kick start ritual is almost a rite of passage. Every bike should have one.
Agreed. And lovely roads. Great, relaxing video. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it
Another interesting, informative and thoroughly enjoyable video share; thanks. I think you are spot on to explain the visceral pleasures of kick starting an old bike with all the procedural nuances that go with the bike’s explosion in to life. I also believe there’s more emotional satisfaction when kick starting your bike than just pressing a starter button. As you say, the starter is fine for the older or injury-laden chap, and lord knows, we’re all on that journey when we shall have to consider the starter button and lightweight bikes. But let’s hold off for as long as possible. I own a little Kawasaki Z650b1 which comes with both kick starter and electric starter and kicking her over does give the extra satisfaction. Lovely roads and scenery in this video, by the way.
I totally agree with you, I love old motorcycles especially Triumphs, and like you love the kick start, I’ve no interest in owning a new hi tech bike, it would do my head in with all those different settings to choose from, good old fashioned low tech motorcycling is more fun, the only modern tech on my bikes is electronic ignition, for reliability. 👍
Well said!
I have an XS650 that is kick-start only, because the starter was filled with oil (common fault once they get old) and as a starter-deleted bike it's fine. Starts easily and does feel more connected, somehow. At some point I'll rebuild the starter, but I'm in no rush.
Similarly, the older of the GS850s has a kicker and that was handy to have on more than one occasion. The later one is electric-only, and while I've never been stranded because the starter didn't work (I've had to bump it once or twice), the presence of a kicker would have been very useful on those occasions.
When I went over 75mph on mine the Smiths clocks used to start spinning in the mounts.
Completely agreed Simon.
Enjoyed that. Ride a speed twin. Can't beat them when they are on song.
P.S. I love the cowhorn bars. I have the standard English pull backs. 1"" width from Norman Hyde... please don't knock me for fantasising I'm on a T150. :-)
They say if a man has a wife in the house and an old British bike in the garage he has all the aggravation he'll ever need.
Speaking from experience?
@@SongsFromTheSaddle Indeed I am, the misery is interrupted with fleeting moments of pure joy.
im 59 got a t140d and a t150v love em both ,dont want a modern bike too mutch crap on them,my modern bike is a 1980 gs850g i do all my owm maintenance and they r all part off me,euro 5.injection ,rider mode bla bla bla bloody nonsense.
I have never considered it in quite that much depth, but having said that I think a kickstart is vital for many reasons, including starting with a low battery, turning the engine slowly when working on it, feeling the compression to check / compare where there is more than one cylinder, etc, etc. Most of my machines are kick only, a couple have kick and electric start, though. The only electric start only machine I owned was a Honda VF400F I bought new in the day, but I didn't keep it for long as it felt too sterile and modern for me. There are no modern [post 1980] machines of much interest to me and fuel injection, ABS and all the electronic gadgetry are a big turn off for me.
Kick starting has it's romance but it also has it's drawbacks
Very true
I agree with what's said just so long as it starts when kicked. It's all well and good a bike having character unless that character decides not to start.
Starting first kick is great 10 kicks not so good
Those look a bit like the exhausts I was thinking of getting from the classic shop for my interceptor - do yours have baffles?
All I think might be useful to me on new bikes is ABS - and then not always.
These exhausts do have baffles and they are actually not very loud. This bike has ABS - no matter how hard you pull on that brake level, the wheel does not lock up 😁
That is sooooo funny!
My '74 Tiger 750 has a twin front disc setup …. Not even going to try and lock it up though!
A freshly rebuilt engine with new parts and more, needs some time to learn its new quirks and foibles. With flip chokes, just one lever, half lifted and a tad of throttle, is now on cables and needs both chokes fully lifted and no throttle. Finding out and adjusting settings can make me wish for an electric leg at times
I was(still am) a bit scared of my Bonny having only kicked it over a few times.
I’m waiting for the dreaded kick back as the last bike I kicked over was my fizzer
why do you think most old British bike owners walk with a limp?
Yamaha were considerate in fitting a decompressor lever to make the task of starting an XT500, a lot easier. It didn’t stop the XT kicking back like an obstinate mule and injuring riders who got it wrong! I’m now on my 3rd aircooled GS1200 and I’ve got 3 mates who bought waterboxers, who have since sold them to again buy 2010-12 GSAs...citing the later GS to be too digital. Analog bikes rule, they are a more visceral experience, thus more engaging a ride! Just saying...
I had an XT500 back in the 1980s. The only person who could start it other than me was my mate who owned a Panther!
@@SongsFromTheSaddle Figures.
My T160 and GL1000 has both , and my 73 Norton 750 just a kick lever , lm more used to the K lever , and knowing what is required, or if something is lean or Rich , advanced or retarded , you definately have to develop a feel for a 8 second tickle or a 3 second tickle etc .
Any film depicting bikers in the fifties/sixties/seventies will have a close-up of the kickstart being used. Its like like a visual expression of testosterone with a hint of possible violence. Imagine Marlon Brando about to move on and terrorise a new town, with a close up of his thumb on a button and hearing the strangled whine of a little electric motor.
Too true.
There is no new modern motor bike , retro or classic, or any other type except maybe offroad, that you can buy, that comes with a kickstarter! None at all! If you want to buy one, you only have AJS 125 chinese made bikes which still come with a kick starter. Just because modern bikes don't (most of the time) need one, (batteries are more reliable) its not a good enough reason to deprive their owners from having one! Kawasakis new W230 modern classic 250cc bike is a very lovely retro vintage looking motor bike, but instantly fails because , how many real vintage motor bikes from the 1960s and 1970's don't have a kickstarter, none! Its a very sad situation, especially if you want to be able to kick start your bike sometimes, so unless you buy a proper vintage bike , you aint getting a kickstarter on any new motor bike , zilch , zero, none anymore, ever!
Kick-starting is never a problem if the machine is tuned and well maintained.
Old bikes were lighter than their modern counter parts, handled better and usually
had more power.
Of course, the vibration from a 360 degree parallel twin would numb your hands, bum and feet after
a decent 100 mile run, unless you could afford a Norton with isolastics.
Phil Irving suggested putting the crankshaft at 72 degrees in the 1950's, but what would he know.
I always carry a basic tool kit, spare fuses, electrical tape, tube patches and have always made it home.
(maybe with a few miles of pushing sometimes).
Modern bikes have astonishing performance, but if anything goes wrong, it is a trailer job.
Even basic servicing has to be done by the dealer because of the complicated technology.
I find that riding over 70 miles per hour, (110 kph) is uncomfortable due to the wind, unless you
have a fuel guzzling fairing or want to lie on the tank and have a bad back in later life.
I prefer the simpler, older motorcycles as I am well into my seventies and getting simpler by the
day.
Good luck to the young fellows. I suppose they can plug in a tablet or 3D print a gasket in a WiFi
hamburger shop.
As long as you enjoy riding your bike; that is the main thing.