Lisa VanDamme Responds to WSJ Article "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior"
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- Опубликовано: 15 янв 2011
- This is the first of several videos in which Lisa VanDamme shares her thoughts about the Wall Street Journal Article "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior." In this video, Miss VanDamme implores listeners to consider the question on which the whole issue depends: By what standard do we say a child is "successful"?
Lisa for President!
Taught Chinese students at a junior college in Japan. Every single one cheated on the exams. They have no moral ambiguity about it.
Kudos. Well articulated, and emotion-felt. Couldn't agree more.
We enjoyed your blogs very much, thank you so much for the generosity of your insight. Chuck 'n Dora\
Great work. I really look forward to the whole series. Have you seen Stefan Molyneux's video reaction to this same article?
My roommate is Chinese and is in the PhD program while I am only doing a Masters in Education. By all economic standards she is more successful. She has just got married, plans to have children once she finishes her degree, and is entering a field with much growth and possibility. It's all about being published, having the grades, and making sure her life is set up to be successful. By ALL merits she is more successful than me, but I have never met a more joyless human being. Ever.
Thank you so much for this video; I was very opposed to the article, but my reasons weren't nearly as eloquent or developed as yours.
I neglected to mention the oft-used strategy to respond to the rational criticism of us impudent, disobedient "foreigners" by cowering behind cultural relativism. thank you for making my point for me.
There needs to be balance. I went to school in South Korea, USA & Canada. Some of my white friends are just completely useless (but they're happy cause they get to smoke weed & drink beer every weekend in their moms' basements).
That being said I also know that this type of extreme parenting will create children who are not creative, not independent, and socially inept to lead a happy & fulfilling life.
I guess I'm very fortunate to have been raised with the best of both worlds..
I've heard several debates in reference to this article, and they have all disappointed me. This video, however, is a beautiful refutation of arguments for mindless blind obedience toward the arbitrary whims of authority, and an elegant and fundamental step in the right direction in the fight for fulfilling achievement, reason, and man's mind.
I am eagerly looking forward to your series! Consider me a subscriber.
I wrote an article about it in American thinker. Can't seem to post the link here. I'll send it you in FB
I tried reading the article, but I was unable to finish. I was so disgusted by the very idea of someone acting that rotten towards a child that I felt like I was going to vomit. What is described in the WSJ article is child abuse of the most wretched order, pure and simple.
Whenever I tell me students about my childhood and how my parents raised me they always say "wow thats awesome, I wish I had that" or " My parents never encouraged me beyond doing well in school" Many parents dont even tell their kids they love them, because its supposed to be implied. I don't care if it is implied hearing it is important for a child. My gf (who is Chinese and is 22) told me that she could count on 1 hand the number of times her parents said "I love you" to her.
I teach oriental kids like this and they don't know anything, they're frustrated as hell, and they just end up wanting to lay in bed or play shooting games. Since I know how to get out of psychological hell (it took me 10 years), I spend most of the class making the kids laugh. I try to depress them.
*I try to to de-repress
@VanDammeAcademy wrote: "A child not an adult, but nor is he a dog."
AGREED 100%. Children need to be treated for what they actually are--human beings who are learning to be rational, discovering their passions and values, and practicing the virtues.
Parenting methods that treat kids as if they are already fully grown, fully responsible adults or as if they are merely intelligent higher animals will not help kids develop into rational adults with good character.
@MrHappy702 All I have said so far is that the achievement of happiness and the development of personal values must feature prominently in our concept of "success." The idea that this implies that the parent be hands-off, that the child be free to gorge himself with cookies and play all day, and that young students "know what's best" is a consequence of the false dichotomy in American parenting education that needs to be exposed for the absurdity it is. A child not an adult, but nor is he a dog.
Lisa, right on. What I have observed is that many of them teach their kids the following values: 1. obedience; 2. conformity; 3. giving their parents grandchildren--preferably male, and thereby giving them "face". Their understanding of capitalism is about as deep as that of a hooker on Sunset Boulevard. Reason, individualism and personal happiness are most explicitly NOT values to them. I could go on. Thank you for doing this.
I realize your comment is two years old, but I think this is worth addressing.
"Ethnocentric" is a bit of postmodernist jargon that we'd do well to throw into the trash bin, because it is at odds with real values in life. Lisa Van Damme's views are *reality*centric, and that makes it common to all human beings. All human beings have the same fundamental nature, after all.
That article bothered me too. Glad to hear you thought it was important
i did also like to take issue with the Tough Love camp. If parents really take the time to participate in their children's lives, there would be no need for tough love. Tough love is for boot camp, not for a small child who is facing a large and often intimidating world. I sometimes wonder if the same adult tough love advocates were the bullies i often taught a lesson to in grade school.
The Chinese also value "saving face" in their culture. Basically this means appearances are extremely important. So success isn't about personal individual happiness, its about "how good does my child make ME look." Trust me I've been in China for almost 2 years now I hear and see this on a daily basis.Students here have high scores, but no ability other than test taking. Having unskilled workers is a major complaint from many Chinese businesses.
@HMBswallowtail Ah, but I don't! Please watch the next video.
I'd like to see some people revisit this article. Especially, knowing what we know now about the "Model Minority Myth."
Agreed - don't forget to mention how almost every elite university discriminate against these "model minority"
How about actually reading amy chuas book instead of reading a sensationalized version of one single page
@@Magdalena287 lol at your assumption that we must come to the same conclusion if we read the same thing
@@tony-lam that part of the book is satire compared how she ends up parenting at the end of it so yeah you do need to read the entire book to get what its about. Thats like getting your information on current affairs based on fox or cnn headlines with out researching it yourself.
@@Magdalena287 aren't you just agreeing with what I am saying
Many people point to the high scores in China recently published involving a test students from all over the world took. Students in Shanghai or by no means representative of the rest of China. In fact many kids were given special permission to take the test in Shanghai even though they didn't live there. They were also told the test was to make China "look good" and I mentioned how important appearances are in this country. China should be proud of its progress, but A LOT more work is needed.
Thank you, Ms. VanDamme. I look forward to the day when your students have grown up and can show the world what success really is--and whence it comes.
Above correction *she has just gotten*..anyway... I am not saying ALL Chinese people are academic paper churning robots, but there is something fundamental in her generation in particular that lacks something. While I believe it is healthy to push your child to academic success as well as personal success, being "competitive" and coming out on top isn't ..shouldn't be the totality of your existence. And winning big academically/economically does not universally define success.
By success they mean being a good mindless slave. This aspect is prevalent in the medieval Chinese culture that they do cruel things to appear "successful" and "save face". The mentality of brutes. I totally agree that the article just feeds the mentality of arrogant ignorance and that learning is a burden and not a joy of life. Can't wait for your next videos. Great fan here.
Many students in college here are also lost. They have no clue what to do with their time since their outside interests were never encouraged when they were younger. Its so bad that my school has "Cultural training classes" which teach basic social skills and surviving in the outside world. The maturity level for many of them is much lower than in the West. Or they are just lost as to who they are. This is not creating independent confident children, its doing the exact opposite.
HEAR HEAR!
wow I just read the article. I can say that it is shameful. I actually happen to be teaching in China right now, my second year teaching college students. Many of them were raised this way and I can tell you it causes things such as insecurity, and fear. My students are so scared to answer questions incorrectly that many just sit there.
@drinfothv "Tough love is for boot camp" LOL!
Trust me, there is no "tough love" in boot camp; There simply is no love.
***** It's not about balance. Rather, it's about what is objective (based on reality) as opposed to subjective (not based on reality, like rather on emotions, culture, nations, race, etc.). Only the individual, not others, ought to decide whether something is objective. From objectivity, one can create objective standards, whether it be for education or for raising children. To excel, one ought to be extreme in one's standard--one ought to be the best one can be (fulfilling one's potential). To argue for balance implies either a lack of awareness of other options (false alternatives--in this case, a false dichotomy) or that an absolute position is impossible (pragmatism is greatly responsible for the pervasiveness of this belief), stifling excellence.
I think the article made people feel like chinese parents are "breaking" their kids like people break the will of a horse before riding it. It isn't like that at all. Parenting is full of love, compassion, nurturing, which is pretty universal in all cultures. The difference is what the definition of tough love is. "go play the piano or you will amount to nothing in life" might be tough for some to swallow if you are not used to it, but if it is just life, you learn to get used to it.
@LeClassics Wow, could you add some more stereotypes in there? I don't think two was enough.
Great video, another thing that's totally wrong with the article is that it completely contradicts itself, in that every Chinese child must be number 1. What? So every kid in the class MUST be number 1? Crazy.
@LeClassics You mean the ones that don't end up committing suicide? Or the ones that somehow survided but end up repeating the cycle with their own kids because "if they weren't allowed to be happy, why should their kids?" It's not about 'benefiting society', it's about teaching them to live the best life they can live.
Have any of you seen the movie "Dead Poets' Society"? Nice concretization of what Ms VanDamme is talking about. If you haven't, please do so before you trade your wife in for a drill sergeant.
@MrHappy702 Miss Van Damme has not defined what she means by Happiness. I can assure you that she is not promoting mindless hedonism, but the kind of happiness that arises from achievement of rationally considered goals. Such goals, in a child, may seem superficially and mindless to an adult... and that is what makes parenting and teaching the young difficult at times... what is the child getting out of 'this'? Is it whim, or is it productive? Interfere, wisely, or laissez-faire?
@HMBswallowtail Did you feel uncomfortable while saying this? Either because of an emotional reaction to what you were arguing about, or (hopefully) because you know it was presenting a false dichotomy in order to hide behind a false Morality in view of your own childhood/parenting? There is no difference between Guidance and a "child-centred" approach to child upbringing. Guidance, or better, the gift of logic which you clearly had stripped from you are not enemies of a childs natural curiosity
I agree with much of what Lisa says, although she swings too far to the other side, which is that we can't have a totally child centered approach, either. Children need to be encouraged, loved, allowed TV, sports, sleepovers and play dates . . . etc . . . but they also need guidance and yes, discipline.
You are aware that at no point in the article, did she actually advocate for her view and she merely gave a description of Chinese parenting and described how she raised her children, and eventually confessed in the book the error of her ways, correct? That was a rhetorical question, as you were obviously not aware of those things.
This whole "all Chinese are successful" thing may work in America, but that shouldn't be a surprise. Most 1st or 2nd generation immigrants do go on to lead successful lives, or more so than they could have achieved in their native country. I think this is because of the drive that many of them have. 3rd, 4rth generation immigrants usually aren't familiar with their families country of origin beyond a name. I've seen Chinese parenting and what it does IN CHINA...its not a good thing
@RationalJenn Traditional Chinese culture is a social approval culture. That's the alleged success in raising children. Children in that culture must never develop a basic intellectual independence. The child's professional success is a means to society approving parents, not the child's happiness.
@LeClassics ok. So what you're telling me that if your mommy doesn't tell you what to do, you just end up smoking weed? Sad.
Individuality and individual thought is not encouraged here. I also live i Shendong Province, by far the most conservative and old school province in China; also the home province of Confucius. I also see that Ms. Chua wrote a book condemning free market democracy, not surprising a tyrant of a mother would support tyranny in government. She should come to China and see just how great the Chinese method really is. My Chinese friends would tell her first hand of their awful experiences
I am truly appalled that so many of the responses go to extremes. Either to break our kids and make them submit to be successful on the one hand or on the other hand, that anything less will lead to lazy, drugged out trailer trash. It makes me wonder if you really listened to what Ms.Van Damme was saying. Kids need a balance of love, nurturing and compassionate discipline. Our kids are not pets or property. They are small humans trying to grow up and be happy.
How is happiness connected to individuality, virtue, and value, etc?
If there IS really a dichotomy btw American and Chinese parenting, the best way is probably in-between... Take constructive criticism and discard the trash. Why get angry?
I guess my parents are perfect balance. Not too Chinese actually not Chinese at all but not too westerners .. m lucky .. Nd these Chinese concept of hardwork is right however rest is disgusting .. what's wrong with play rehearsal or bf .. what if their brain is more effective towards acting than on maths Nd stuffs . I have a lot to say about this essay maybe that's why it's under definition and argumentation
Chinese mom are only caring there daughter not son...lol...eg...Eileen Gu and rudacuna
If we allow the student to determine their success based off their happiness, then wouldn’t all young students desire more recess time, more cookies, and certainly not more studies? How does a dog gain value? With discipline and proper training the dog can be trained and refined. Can we assume that the student knows what is best ,especially the younger they are? Articles like these are fallacious in that they send their readers too quickly into the errors for bifurcation.
TheChairman the US Constitution enshrined the right to Happiness. Apparently to you this means cookies, Coke, mindless television and games. It excludes interests such as music or sport, or inclinations such as LEGO, or making videos or dancing or theatre. It also precludes any attempt by the parent from discovering what is of rational interest to the child. What a sad political document is that US Constitution.
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I agree with much of what Lisa says, although she swings too far to the other side, which is that we can't have a totally child centered approach, either. Children need to be encouraged, loved, allowed TV, sports, sleepovers and playdates . . . ect, but they also need guidance and yes, discipline.