Love your work. I can tell your a professional and you really care about doing a good job for your clients. England needs a lot more people with your energy and expertise to dispel all the negative comments people make about heat pumps.😊
Where do you live? I live in a cold climate and they keep up just fine in the colder months. You’d have to be the arctic circle for a higher efficiency units not to work.
They work fine. Even at -15. We need better education for heating engineers as average in the Uk is very poor. Experience doesn’t matter if you have been doing it wrong all this time
I really like watching your videos as a homeowner, not because I intend to install my own system but because it means that I can ask the professional I hire the right questions. Thank you so much for helping to educate us all.
Im a plumber of 27 year and love to watch your videos. You take pride in your work and it shows. I found your page from the start and watch it grow, keep up the great work. You have me wanting to pump in a valinte heat pump in my own home
In many ways an 80s house is an easier proposition than something built thirty years later because the heating is likely to have been designed around single panel rads and a separate DHW cylinder so it’s got an easier upgrade path than a combi feeding rads that are already K2s, via 10mm plastic under a chipboard floor that’s glued to the joists.
I am always pleased when you post a new video. I am a mechanical and electrical engineer, I work for a local authority, taking care of complex systems in , swimming pools, various commercial office building with communal heating systems and a full district heating system. I like your work and ethic. You are clearly passionate and work to a very high standard. The one thing I would say to you though with this video, that, is in no way a typical uk house. Much of the uk housing stock is on a small footprint or is of some type of terrace/town house structure. For all who wish to immediately defend air source heat pumps as the holly grail, they definitely have their place, but, are not all things to all men and there does need to be an alternative. It always pleases me to see the standard of your installations, my local authority has suffered some shockingly bad installations from uncaring contractors, which have cost thousands to put right. As well as costing the tenant thousands to heat their homes. A knowledgeable and caring contractor has taken over, rectified the faults and proved the worth of air source heat pumps when correctly specified and installed correctly
I think it’s increasingly proven that heat pumps can work in both new build and older houses. But it seems you really need good quality kit and an installer who has high skill and attention to detail. Finding a really good installer seems like a key success factor- even more so than for a gas heating system.
@@UrbanPlumbers unfortunately there are non in Scotland :( -- I don't think the UK gov is going to its target unless it really ramps up the training, as I don't trust random installers to be even a fraction as good as you & some of the other knowledgeable folks on RUclips
@@zlmdragon. Hard? It is next to impossible for me to find people that I can work with. I have very high expectations from others and can be rather harsh if they do not perform. On average 1 in 20 will stay with me for longer than a few months. I got used to it now.
@@UrbanPlumbers Yup, there's a lot to be said for doing a good job and enjoying your work. I think a lot of people end up in management because they think, "well, that's what we're meant to do, right?" and some of them hate it, but keep doing it because of pressure/expectations.
this is exactly what i wanted to see - about to get my vaillant heat pump installed on my wall backing onto the upstairs landing, so not too far away from the bedrooms. was getting a bit worried about transmitted vibration and noise but this puts me more at ease!
I’m just so addicted to this channel. I cannot wait to get to your level of knowledge with heat pumps. I’m following the path you said to take right now. As always thank you for your videos. 🙏🏼
Afterwatching your videos I'm now looking forward to our system getting fitted in the next month or two. We have an old oil boiler that costs us roughly £1200 of oil and service a year to run, I'm hoping that will be the same for electric or even cheaper as we're getting solar roof panels at the same time.... Great videos... Keep em going 👍
Some of the best, if not the best content for the industry for all the naysayer and doubters. proving its possible and not rubbishing the renewable era. i'm interested to see what the data gathered from this one over the next 12 month will show
Excellent videos keeping the quality of work super high. As a plumber this is encouraging me to go into this market I have enrolled on the heatgeek awakening. Just hope the demand for this type of work will increase
I really enjoy the level of detail you provide in your videos. Thank you. If the outside Vaillant unit was mounted a foot higher, you could put the trash bins underneath it! You could use a small mobile hydraulic scissor lift table (about 400lb capacity) to raise the unit instead of four people. These tables typically raise up to 5 feet and cost about 300 pounds. Just some thoughts.
Fascinating to watch as always and to find out about the ways you’re applying your learning as you go. Interesting to see the elevated wall mount, the tips on the application of lagging and the rule of thumb on radiator sizing. Top job…
A very informative video, enjoyable to watch. I have a 1950's house in Essex with little to no insulation. I'm planning a redevelopment of my home in approximately a year's time, and I'm considering a heatpump instalation. There are several horror stories buzzing around social media regarding heatpumps and their functionality. I'm hoping to first get a heatpump specialist to provide a survey / feasibility study of my property, to determine what's possible. What I'm picking-up from all the videos on this subject I've seen, is that installing / commissioning of any hearpump system is vital. Finding an installer that is aware of all the pitfalls of heatpump instalations is also key. Currently heatpumps are being promoted by the government, and RUclipsrs like you & Heatgeek are very enthusiastic on the subject.Your professionalism I'm sure gives customers confidence, but what's lacking is a guild of excellence, something that potential customers can contact, ensuring that cowboy fitters are avoided. I'm sure that will be the main reason why many will avoid heatpumps. Regards Robert
Great work, very impressive. Watching from Canada…I have an air source cold climate heat pump forced warm air using a matching air handler that works great. Love the idea of a “soak away”, I think you called it. However, I’d need to install a long French drain below the frost line to handle the defrost water. It’s on the side of my house out of the way, but typically has a minor iceberg underneath most of the winter.
Great video and great advertisement for exactly how well they work... My cylinder is where my combi used to be and my heat pump is at the back of my extension so all in all no space is lost... Mine was installed in January and got around 400% efficiency for the remainder of the Winter, will see if I can squeeze any more out of it this Winter by tweaking the weather curve.
@@allthegearuk it's in quite a large airing cupboard and fortunately the flow and return go straight out the back wall and radiator pipes into the floor, mine takes up roughly a 700mm x 700mm footprint but I was lucky with pipe runs I guess
Looks great, similar to my install in a 1974 large detached house, operating SCOP 3.89. I was able to route the condensate to an existing rainwater gulley - you can see the amount of water produced when it’s humid is like a tap just flowing, soak away might be overwhelmed.
My personal concerns around even trying to explore this subject are: * where the unit would due to the air circulation issue mentioned here. I have 2+ metre stone walls really close at the side and back of a semi detached house. * where the water tank would go? I assume it should be close to the unit, behind the same wall? Could I put it in a cabinet under the stairs in the kitchen? * How much piping in an older uninsulated solid wall house I would have to replace in order for the unit to run efficiently? I replaced the loft insulation, put some insulation under the suspended flooring downstairs, but with councils being more concerned about maintaing house "looks" over energy efficiency there is little I can do about wall insulation * I have some iron cast radiators across multiple rooms, which hold a lot of water. How does that affect the heat pipe efficiency? * 12-15k is still fairly steep and unlikely to include any extra work, such as replacement of piping
Would be nice if you could do a cost breakdown on an installation on this scale .this would probably encourage more homeowners to upgrade to this set up , especially in the present climate ( cost of living crisis).
@@Zaph31it would be nice to know ballpark figures *especially* because Szymon is a top heating engineer. We're under financial pressure but don't want to make a false economy having someone less competent to do the work. I'd rather know roughly the sort of figure I need to find to get it done right first time. Or if it doesn't work as well as expected, with Szymon, you know he will come back and know how to fix any problems rather than go bust and disappear!
I have just had an ASHP installed in my 1960’s 2/3 bedroom terrace house in Salford, which I would suggest is a far more common house type in the UK than a posh detached house! In order to fit it, I had to demolish an outbuilding and have the electricity supply moved. The gas has been capped off but Cadent want £1800 to actually disconnect the supply so for the time being, I have a five foot height steel gas pipe sticking up in my garden. Moving the electric wasn’t cheap either and my back garden looked like the Somme for about a month. I have a high temperature heat pump so I only had to replace one radiator and fortunately, the place where the heat pump was to be located had a small cloakroom on the other side which I ripped out, temporarily, so the cylinder etc could be installed. There is now room or reinstall the WC and basin. In spite of the stress, upheaval and periods of panic when people didn’t turn up, I am very happy. Lashings of hot water and the heating is working very well. I also have solar PV. I have a Hive control connected but I don’t use it. Total cost, including all the ancillaries, around £20,000 less £5,000 from our generous government (haha). Incidentally, I had already upgraded insulation well above minimum requirements well in advance. My electricity costs are alarming at the moment, and even with the loss of the gas, it is costing quite a bit more; not unexpected because the cost per Kw for electric is so much higher. Also, no sun or days so no solar PV. It’s early days and costs will come down eventually. I have no regrets but I am lucky I can afford it.
Sounds like a typical high temp inefficient design sadly. This job here was almost half the cost of yours and will be way cheaper to run than gas as well. Sadly some companies still pedal high temp heat pump and no rad changes nonsense.
I insisted on a high temperature heat pump because I refused to have thumping great radiators installed and I have spent a lot of money on custom painted radiators. As I said, it is early days but based on the design documents sent to me and the general level of workmanship, I would say they have done a pretty good job. The actual cost of the system to me after the £5k grant was about £9,000. The rest was for all the work required to make it possible. Incidentally, tens of thousands of UK terrace houses have looped electric supplies, my neighbour was looped into my service head, and that has to be removed. That work didn’t cost me any money but a huge amount of upheaval. I am 100% in favour of the transition but I do think it is important not to be taken in my our idiot government’s fantasies about what is involved. Even at 50% of the overall cost, it is far beyond the reach of most ordinary people. I have no regrets.
Thanks for the video. Love your content. Small gripe would be that this is not a typical UK house. Only about 15% of UK houses are detached. A 3 bed semi would probably be the most typical.
Looks like a really neat installation. Interesting what you’re saying about the heating circuit pipe sizing, whilst remodelling my house over the last few years I’ve increased the heating pipe size to the same as this install. Looks like I was thinking along the right lines.
@@UrbanPlumbers first time I saw an unvented with a capped PRV I did panic a bit, that one didn’t have a very well thought out label though. Hope you’re well and keep up the good work 🫡
As a heating installer, gas registered and qualified in unvented H/W, with three times more years in the game than you Mr Urban Plumber, I can say that your work is of the finest there is, If anyone wants an ASHP installed (that includes me) this is the guy to install it, his also a Heat-Geek assured, ASHP Qualified installer. Question, all your ASHP installs use 3 ports valves, is this simply to take advantage of the auto bypass this creates.
Thank you for the comment. Those valves a diverters not 3 ports. I don’t use 2 ports as I don’t zone my systems. They run what is called PDHW and open loop.
Ok so they only move to block the heating port when hot water is called as that's at a higher temp then goes back so low water temp flow to the heating. thanks.
Awesome video...we were just told today our 1970s home probably needs re-piped as the boiler is good but the return temp isn't even close. Should we be considering ashp with the grants availabe? And the fact we'll be pulling up floors anyway?
First of all, great videos very informative. It would be interesting to know the price of each of these installs you do. A lot of people are driven by price.
Love your work and your video’s, as the owner of an older house similar to the one in this video, I am wondering does it make much difference to overall efficiency if I were to install a heat pump on a wall what direction the wall faces, i.e North, East, South or West?
I found your video very interesting and informative. Clearly you are very knowledgeable and thorough. My house was built by Bryant in 1990. The radiators on the ground floor are fed by narrow bore pipes. Upstairs the pipes to the radiators are a wider bore. Is this likely to present problems if I decide to have a heat pump installed?
This will depend on the heat loss of the property and the length of pipework (New and existing). A larger heat loss will need larger pipework, as will a longer run. As a rule of thumb 28mm is okay up to around 10KW, 35mm to around 15KW. Average heat loss of a UK home is around 8KW.
Very well installed. Quality work great knowledge. I suspect many heat pump systems installed with a lack of consideration for flow rates and rad DT's resulting in "heat pump" doesn't work.
The only time I see my heat pump is when I go out into the back garden and actually look at it. But personally it’s much better looking that some other heat pumps and it doesn’t bother me. I actually stood on mine to wash the apex window on the extension haha! So it comes in handy. 😂
Your are very good at answering all the tech problems, but I still think cost is a problem in the short term for most people. I still Com across non condensing boilers not being changed due to cost.
We have been using heat pump for the last 10 years.we also have been using low water content rads such as Jaga rads or aluminium radiators with no problems,Jaga lads have the advantage of being able to self convect at low temperature (DBE type)and take up to a 3rd less space than the equivalent output rad!I don't remember any of your systems having solar panels incorporated with heat pump installs? Sorry if I have missed a video with panels.all are heat pump jobs would have solar thermal panels fitted.great video's
Great videos; really well explained. One thing I would like some more information about is why heat zoning is not recommended. Does this mean that the whole house has to be set at the same temperature?
Watch the HeatGeek videos on this explaining it in detail. Seems simple is better and the illusion of micro control is outweighed by the thermal mass of a house just being maintained by weather compensation gives best efficiency.
People who say pumps only work on newer properties clearly don't grasp that heating systems are sized on heat loss of the house, an old house with more heat loss needs more energy , you still get the saving from the heat pump , it's just that costs will still be higher than similar size new build, actually on an older house the payback can be quicker than a newer more energy efficient house. Also it's perfectly possible to recycle some of the larger radiators to other rooms if you do need to upsize some radiator to work with a lower flow temp, by cascading radiators you can keep the costs for that aspect very low.
Very interesting videos. We just had a VWL 125/6 plus a Unitower VIH 190 installed. Will install the SensoComfort and SensoNet unit in a few days as they were on backorder initially. So, currently we have the unit on "summer" mode only using it for tap hot water. In our 145 smq meter house we have radiators, so I wanted to ask you if we should still use our radiators in the same way as previously? We have older style thermostats that we usually set at around 2-3 for a temperature around 19 degrees. Do you know of any digital thermostats that work with the Vaillant system?
That is a highly informative channel! I have learned the modern heating equipment and approaches how to retrofit the houses from you. We are building a 300m2 new house with a 12 kW Valliant split heat pump (previous generation) with all native controllers (720, VR71,...). The house is well insulated, has huge low-temperature radiators and a lot of heated floors. My installer follows the standard typical design from Valliant with all Valliant controllers, temperature compensation, 3x water pumps (radiators, heated floors, boiler), 100 liters buffer for heat pump, 200-liter cylinder for hot water. However, each room has a Rehau thermostat which controls radiators and heated floors with individual temperature presets. You mentioned that zone control might kill heat pump efficiency. Could you please tell me about the potential heat pump efficiency risks of this approach?
Interested to understand what you use for the design / heat loss calculation? Main variable that is affecting mine is ventilation / ACH figure, can make a big difference across 230m2 bungalow
You videos are very good, should be shown in schools! I just dont understand there are many regs but they dont have a reg about positioning of external unit to keep it working efficiently. Like not in a small alleyway on the floor.....
How high up could the outdoor unit go? I see lots of AC units high up on walls, could the same be done with these? or at least high enough to park the bins under it?
Congratulations on another install..meet you at installer show and you pass me to a guy who do teaching...so you can confirm that a heat pump will work...but will heat up the house slowly...comparing to a gas boiler..but will also save money on electricity comapring to gas usage by a 30 or 35 kw boiler....am i correct
Thanks for the positive video. We are at a stage where it is down to the designer/installer to get the system right as the technology is ready. Good luck to Heat Geeks and others teaching the "light touch" approach to heat pump installation. On the subject of Y strainers versus ball filters, I had Brendon Uys over inspecting a heat pump the other day; he recommended the Impel FBVM 486-32 mag-filter and strainer (Kv value of 21.1 according to their datasheet). £70 each, so not cheap!
Could you please update us on property max achievable ambient temperature. As we all feel comfortable in diff temps I'm wondering what range is available. Would be also nice to see running costs compared to old setup in about year time...👍
Interesting you can raise it off the ground. Best place for a heat pump at my house would be on the side, which has the major downside of obstructing the narrow driveway. Could a unit be mounted several metres above ground? Thereby alloying vehicles clearance.
It can, but it will make it rather difficult to service and for any warranty call outs you will have to provide scaffolding, so I am n out sure if it’s worth it
I installed a heat pump in our house from 1932. We are mostly satisfied and while it does use electric heating sometimes, it is very rare and we hope to do a pass on the windows, attic insulation and replace the old single pane radiators with modern low-temp ones for more stable indoor temperatures and a more efficient house.
I love your detailed approach to your projects but I think you lucked out with this house. Nice size F&R pipework to each side of the house & not a length of microbore in sight which, for a 1980's house, is very unusual. I cannot see me ever being able to have an ATW HP system in my 1986 house because it has 10mm microbore pipework to every radiator in the house. It would cost too much & create so much upheaval to upgrade all the pipework. I'm therefore looking at an Air to Air heat pump multi split system with a separate solution for HW - maybe an all-in-on HP cylinder. This also means I can get cooling in the summer if needed. Another good vid.
@@UrbanPlumbers Now that I will be super interested to look at. I'm a retired HVAC product manager/trainer so I know how important flow rates are for any successful ATW system. Normally microbore kills the flow rate & to replace it all is just too expensive & so much hassle. It will be very interesting to see how you go about overcoming this problem & achieve an efficient system. I'm already subbed so I wait for the next vid in anticipation.
I live in a house with one bathroom which has an electric shower and just two hot water taps, one in the bathroom and one in the kitchen. Would it be worth doing hot water with a heat pump, or just keep the electric shower and put in some sort of electric on demand heaters for the taps? For instance, I'd quite like one of those Quooker Boiling Water taps in the kitchen.
Thanks - video is excellent - helped me understand more. Question: If retrofitting to house with showers, do the showers run off the mains pressure still, or do you need a pump? Thanks.
@@zlmdragon. i guess from my perspective we dont have a ton of spare space so would want to find a way to replace in place. The featured property certainly has an abundance of available space, not really common in majority of UK homes.
Hi love your videos. We are refurbishing our home in Holland. We have laid new underfloor heating throughout (Upstairs and ground floor). We did have a big combi boiler but removed it and now looking at what efficiency options we could consider for a new system. Gas is expensive so we would like avoid that big possible. Floor area is about 275 meter square. I like the look of that Vaillant heat system. Could you share many ideas / thoughts? Thanks.
What pump is used within the unit ? Just curious because if I was developing a unit I would use a mag drive pump , would like to see the inside of the unit if you have time in the future.
Someone please reply🙏 I don’t see how having a flow temp of 45 degrees could keep you warm in the winter? I’m referring to living in a standard U.K. house. Also what happens to to the water in the cylinder if they can only achieve 45 degrees - wouldn’t you get legionnaires?? I’m assuming the immersion must kick in to bring it up to 55?? Thanks
You can kept ANY house warm with a flow of 30c! As long as you have emitters large enough to transfer the energy required. Heating is not about temperature as much as it is about heat transfer, and that can happen at pretty much any temperature as long as it is above your room temperature. For example - a single panel small radiator may need a flow of 65c to keep a room at 21c. The same room may only need 35c to keep it at 21c if the radiator is upsized to let’s say a triple rad. You don’t need high temperatures to keep rooms at 21c! Hot water is done separately to heating and doesn’t need immersion, as the unit can go to 75c, it is just less efficient at those high temperatures.
@@UrbanPlumbers ah I see! Thanks a lot for replying. I had no idea an air source heat pump can generate 75c. That’s amazing! So what do you recommend for small to medium sized properties where you’d struggle to get the cylinder in- still a gas combi? One last question….will air source heat pumps work with 3 column rads or do they have to be K2’s? Thanks & please keep making you great videos 👍
Really enjoy your videos showing a balanced view on heat pumps from a true professional. Learning from previous issues and iterating - continuous development is so important in any technical trade. Installers got away with badly planned/configured boiler installations as they were inefficient/problematic but still "works" depending on your definition of works (your radiators would get hot at least). But with heat pumps all the cowboys are being caught out as they barely work or flat out do not work if they're not designed correctly - I dread to think the amount of installs that might fall into that category in the future. Hopefully the silver lining is that it weeds out installers who do not really understand the technical aspects of their trade, don't get proper training and think they can get away with lashing stuff in, which they have been able to an extent with gas boilers. With regards to space - I can see issues in my property in the future which has just a 36kw combi boiler in a cupboard in the kitchen with no extra space surrounding - in this situation is there any kind of cylinder that would be suitable to install inside this cupboard or would it be better to locate a new cylinder in the loft space? (quite difficult with extra pipework, although in my place it could be run externally if it came to it)
Hi ! - You're videos are excellent and are helping me decide on the way ahead. I have an oil boiler and a wood-burning stove boiler. I can use one or the other depending on our needs and the weather. I wanted to ask if you have done an install with a Valliant hybrid heat pump with a wood-burning stove. My existing system uses a neutraliser to distribute hot water to both the hot water tank or my radiators from either the stove boiler or the oil boiler.
Thanks for posting this. It has really challenged my prejudices. These being 1. Noise. 2 need to upgrade the pipework to the rads. Can you do a followup and visit the site in a hard frost winters day. So I can check out the noise then and if the owner still finds the heating adequate.
Nice work, another fantastic install. It's great to see that it's possible to run even large systems like that open loop without a buffer. What's the reason you installed the cylinder in vented configuration? Would unvented not give better hot water pressure?
Thanks again! Mains supply is in the middle of a kitchen extension with tiled floors, just impossible to extend to the garage without a major cost and building works involved.
@@UrbanPlumbers ah OK, that makes sense. How did you pressurise the heating system without mains water? I thought you mentioned that you did manage to get a feed from somwhere
@GlynHudson by using old system full from the header that connected to the mains in the loft. This is fine for central heating but not adequate for dhw
would love to see a installation on a early 1900 mid terrace house. Does the side passage on such houses even have enough space for them even if you raise them?
Super professional work as ever. I had my vented cylinder replaced with unvented. The cylinder is now in the loft and the airing cupboard has gone, is this a problem on a pump installation?
Informative video. Are you able to say what the cost of the installation was, what the heat loss calculations said what heat loss the house had and which size of heat pump was selected, how much it will cost to run the heat pump in relation to gas etc. More data please.
Very interesting. -What is the cost of installing it and the equipment? -How many kws of electricity does use on average day to day? -How much does servicing cost every year? -How long is the units lifespan? -How much is a replacement unit to buy and install?
I love the idea of a heat pump, albeit I just can't afford it at the moment, but I am concerned about space. The only place we could conceivably have the outdoor unit would be right on our patio which feels a bit less than ideal but I guess could work. We are an end terrace and have no side access at all. BUT the bigger issue is the amount of space needed inside and the awkwardness of where the existing UFH manifold is relative to where we could site the outdoor unit. We do have a loft and it currently has the hot water immersion tank (140 or 150l I think) plus the cold water header which feeds the main shower, which we use exclusively, and the bath, which we never use anyway. Right now we have an electric flow boiler which takes up no space at all. The loft hatch isn't all that big so I'd be dubious about a cylinder fitting up there (these new ones look to be about just over 500mm wide I think). So, assuming this is the case, what options are there likely to be for a house like mine (I do have on other possible place but it is a very useful storage cupboard so I'd have to work out where we put the absurd number of hoovers we have, but really I'm just interested what can be done for those more marginal houses that really do have space constraints that can't be overcome, or not cost effectively)
Great video. I was thinking of getting a heat pump and similar to this house i would probably need to replace all the single panel under sized radiators for doubles. If i did this first and ran my gas boiler at a lower water temp e.g. 45°C would that give me an idea of how warm my house would be using a heat pump - thanks
Love the way you explain things. I have an 40s house and we did the heating in the 90s and used 10mm microbore to the radiators, would this be too small a diameter for the flow rates?
Thank you. There is no definitve answer to your question. It all depends on the following factors: - heat loss of the room - size of the propsoed radiators and flow rates - length of the microbore pipework In most cases 10mm can work well, and if not you always have an option to improve insulation and make 10mm work well. Everything with heat pumps should be carfully surveyed and calcuated to have dfinitve answers or to find ways of making microbore work.
Very interesting. Sounds like important improvements in the units have been made wrt noise and vibration. It would be great to know what other improvements are coming / in the pipeline. However, difficult to comment on this installation because it sounds like it was at the highest level of spec for radiators and pipework before work started, so obviously this reduced cost and work. Great for them but not sure how often this is the case. What would be interesting would be some user feedback from these users on a v cold day. Being fully functional in summer is one thing but obviously not the real test.
I always post feedback from my installations. Check my other videos - there is 3 on my channel with interviews after the winter with my heat pump clients
Your very knowledgeable, in my apartment I have Stelrad K2 Radiators fitted with Drayton TVR4 temperature control, 10mm plastic pipes branch off from a 22mm Manifold I have a unzoned system, Viessmann 200W B2B Gas Combination Boiler, I have all the temperature equipment But its 10mm plastic pipes to every radiator would you measure from Drayton TVR4 input to the flow valve on the other side? Plastic 10mm is Not a good conductor of heat like copper 15mm pipe, I be honest yes I should have gone for 15mm copper pipe, but my thoughts was to have as little water in the pipes, So I'm looking for a Delta of 10 - 11°C ? Or Far Lower I've upgraded the pump on the Viessmann 200WB2B to the recommended high efficiency pump I've had the system nearly 14 years, I recently did a cold water flush with Fernox F8 left in for just over a week, that helped a lot to get scale from the system, So in 3 bedroom apartment 110sq ft 9 Radiators inc two towel Radiators I just want to set up the system to optimum
Love these videos...I believe you when you say that heat pumps can work well in Uninsulated or badly insulated houses. HOWEVER, this Myth has become commonplace. Could you create a video that explains how or why a heat pump can work in an Uninsulated house to replace an Oil or Gas boiler? Love the channel, SUBSCRIBED!!
As others have said, I love your work the detail and research you do l feel if you installed a system that wasn’t quite working to 100% . You would there at you own expense to correct the unseen fault. Next year I’m moving home and need to upgrade to this system. I also have a renovation place in Italy on lake Como I’d love you to install 😇👍
I like watching the videos but don’t understand much of the heat pump system. We’re having a grant aerona 3 heat pump and hot water tank plus replacement radiators as well as solar panels fitted under ECO4 grant. How do we know that what we are getting is any good and suitable for our home?
Thanks for the informative content. What is the typical location of the outside unit for mid terraced or semi detached 100 year old house that is so common somewhere like London? Is there an issue putting it to close to a boundary?
Great video! Would a heat pump like this work on a one pipe system (bypass on each radiator) or the system would need to be upgraded to a two pipes system?
Thanks for another great video. I live in Norway and was wondering if you know at what outdoor temperature HP CoP starts to drop. Here from Dec to Mar it is usually between -5°C and -15°C. This is when the heating is most needed. Can the DHW cylinder be used as a heat battery to store heat during the night (electricity prices are generally much lower at night) and then release that heat in the morning when the electricity prices surge? Or is there a better backup heating setup? Thanks again for all your great content, I'm a huge fan ❤
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Love your work. I can tell your a professional and you really care about doing a good job for your clients. England needs a lot more people with your energy and expertise to dispel all the negative comments people make about heat pumps.😊
Simply they are not capable enough in the colder months and this is a fact.
Where do you live? I live in a cold climate and they keep up just fine in the colder months. You’d have to be the arctic circle for a higher efficiency units not to work.
@anthony5530 I live in the uk Midlands, I'm a heating engineer twenty five years experience.
They work fine. Even at -15. We need better education for heating engineers as average in the Uk is very poor. Experience doesn’t matter if you have been doing it wrong all this time
@UrbanPlumbers ok mate your right and 98% of heating industry professionals are wrong! Good luck to you sir.
I really like watching your videos as a homeowner, not because I intend to install my own system but because it means that I can ask the professional I hire the right questions. Thank you so much for helping to educate us all.
Im a plumber of 27 year and love to watch your videos. You take pride in your work and it shows.
I found your page from the start and watch it grow, keep up the great work.
You have me wanting to pump in a valinte heat pump in my own home
Looking forward to the day we see one installed in a two up two down mid terraced house …😁Top work as always …👍
In many ways an 80s house is an easier proposition than something built thirty years later because the heating is likely to have been designed around single panel rads and a separate DHW cylinder so it’s got an easier upgrade path than a combi feeding rads that are already K2s, via 10mm plastic under a chipboard floor that’s glued to the joists.
I am always pleased when you post a new video. I am a mechanical and electrical engineer, I work for a local authority, taking care of complex systems in , swimming pools, various commercial office building with communal heating systems and a full district heating system. I like your work and ethic. You are clearly passionate and work to a very high standard. The one thing I would say to you though with this video, that, is in no way a typical uk house. Much of the uk housing stock is on a small footprint or is of some type of terrace/town house structure. For all who wish to immediately defend air source heat pumps as the holly grail, they definitely have their place, but, are not all things to all men and there does need to be an alternative.
It always pleases me to see the standard of your installations, my local authority has suffered some shockingly bad installations from uncaring contractors, which have cost thousands to put right. As well as costing the tenant thousands to heat their homes. A knowledgeable and caring contractor has taken over, rectified the faults and proved the worth of air source heat pumps when correctly specified and installed correctly
I think it’s increasingly proven that heat pumps can work in both new build and older houses. But it seems you really need good quality kit and an installer who has high skill and attention to detail. Finding a really good installer seems like a key success factor- even more so than for a gas heating system.
That’s why we promote heat geek elite installers - the best in the country bet a long mile.
@@UrbanPlumbers unfortunately there are non in Scotland :( -- I don't think the UK gov is going to its target unless it really ramps up the training, as I don't trust random installers to be even a fraction as good as you & some of the other knowledgeable folks on RUclips
@vicki8669 I am not interested in managing people. I am not good at it and hate doing it. Where I am now is where I want to be.
@@zlmdragon. Hard? It is next to impossible for me to find people that I can work with. I have very high expectations from others and can be rather harsh if they do not perform.
On average 1 in 20 will stay with me for longer than a few months. I got used to it now.
@@UrbanPlumbers Yup, there's a lot to be said for doing a good job and enjoying your work. I think a lot of people end up in management because they think, "well, that's what we're meant to do, right?" and some of them hate it, but keep doing it because of pressure/expectations.
One of your best videos yet for explaining the nuances of what makes a successful installation.👏👏👏👏👏👏
this is exactly what i wanted to see - about to get my vaillant heat pump installed on my wall backing onto the upstairs landing, so not too far away from the bedrooms. was getting a bit worried about transmitted vibration and noise but this puts me more at ease!
Nice install ! Good soc thats we need well installed heat pumps! Will be looking for heat pump in 2024
I’m just so addicted to this channel. I cannot wait to get to your level of knowledge with heat pumps. I’m following the path you said to take right now.
As always thank you for your videos. 🙏🏼
Afterwatching your videos I'm now looking forward to our system getting fitted in the next month or two. We have an old oil boiler that costs us roughly £1200 of oil and service a year to run, I'm hoping that will be the same for electric or even cheaper as we're getting solar roof panels at the same time.... Great videos... Keep em going 👍
good luck with the installation. I hope you found a decent installer.
Some of the best, if not the best content for the industry for all the naysayer and doubters. proving its possible and not rubbishing the renewable era. i'm interested to see what the data gathered from this one over the next 12 month will show
Starting my heat pump journey Monday, looking forward to it
Excellent videos keeping the quality of work super high. As a plumber this is encouraging me to go into this market I have enrolled on the heatgeek awakening. Just hope the demand for this type of work will increase
I really enjoy the level of detail you provide in your videos. Thank you.
If the outside Vaillant unit was mounted a foot higher, you could put the trash bins underneath it!
You could use a small mobile hydraulic scissor lift table (about 400lb capacity) to raise the unit instead of four people. These tables typically raise up to 5 feet and cost about 300 pounds.
Just some thoughts.
Thanks
thank you !
Fascinating to watch as always and to find out about the ways you’re applying your learning as you go. Interesting to see the elevated wall mount, the tips on the application of lagging and the rule of thumb on radiator sizing. Top job…
Thank you !
A very informative video, enjoyable to watch.
I have a 1950's house in Essex with little to no insulation. I'm planning a redevelopment of my home in approximately a year's time, and I'm considering a heatpump instalation.
There are several horror stories buzzing around social media regarding heatpumps and their functionality.
I'm hoping to first get a heatpump specialist to provide a survey / feasibility study of my property, to determine what's possible.
What I'm picking-up from all the videos on this subject I've seen, is that installing / commissioning of any hearpump system is vital. Finding an installer that is aware of all the pitfalls of heatpump instalations is also key.
Currently heatpumps are being promoted by the government, and RUclipsrs like you & Heatgeek are very enthusiastic on the subject.Your professionalism I'm sure gives customers confidence, but what's lacking is a guild of excellence, something that potential customers can contact, ensuring that cowboy fitters are avoided.
I'm sure that will be the main reason why many will avoid heatpumps.
Regards
Robert
Very nice! Been using Nibe 2125 heat pumps for almost a year now and they work very well in my 1900 house in Italy
Great work, very impressive. Watching from Canada…I have an air source cold climate heat pump forced warm air using a matching air handler that works great. Love the idea of a “soak away”, I think you called it. However, I’d need to install a long French drain below the frost line to handle the defrost water. It’s on the side of my house out of the way, but typically has a minor iceberg underneath most of the winter.
Great video and great advertisement for exactly how well they work... My cylinder is where my combi used to be and my heat pump is at the back of my extension so all in all no space is lost... Mine was installed in January and got around 400% efficiency for the remainder of the Winter, will see if I can squeeze any more out of it this Winter by tweaking the weather curve.
How big is the space the cylinder is in? Our boiler is in a kitchen cupboard 600mm wide. I'm worried it won't be big enough.
@@allthegearuk it's in quite a large airing cupboard and fortunately the flow and return go straight out the back wall and radiator pipes into the floor, mine takes up roughly a 700mm x 700mm footprint but I was lucky with pipe runs I guess
Another myth buster video, well done! Great install.
Looks great, similar to my install in a 1974 large detached house, operating SCOP 3.89. I was able to route the condensate to an existing rainwater gulley - you can see the amount of water produced when it’s humid is like a tap just flowing, soak away might be overwhelmed.
My personal concerns around even trying to explore this subject are:
* where the unit would due to the air circulation issue mentioned here. I have 2+ metre stone walls really close at the side and back of a semi detached house.
* where the water tank would go? I assume it should be close to the unit, behind the same wall? Could I put it in a cabinet under the stairs in the kitchen?
* How much piping in an older uninsulated solid wall house I would have to replace in order for the unit to run efficiently? I replaced the loft insulation, put some insulation under the suspended flooring downstairs, but with councils being more concerned about maintaing house "looks" over energy efficiency there is little I can do about wall insulation
* I have some iron cast radiators across multiple rooms, which hold a lot of water. How does that affect the heat pipe efficiency?
* 12-15k is still fairly steep and unlikely to include any extra work, such as replacement of piping
Would be nice if you could do a cost breakdown on an installation on this scale .this would probably encourage more homeowners to upgrade to this set up , especially in the present climate ( cost of living crisis).
There's probably not much point, Szymon is a top-tier heating engineer and his prices reflect that. If you're under CoL pressure, it won't make sense.
@@Zaph31It would be nice to know a ballpark figure , even from a top heating engineer like Syzmon
@@Zaph31it would be nice to know ballpark figures *especially* because Szymon is a top heating engineer. We're under financial pressure but don't want to make a false economy having someone less competent to do the work. I'd rather know roughly the sort of figure I need to find to get it done right first time. Or if it doesn't work as well as expected, with Szymon, you know he will come back and know how to fix any problems rather than go bust and disappear!
I have just had an ASHP installed in my 1960’s 2/3 bedroom terrace house in Salford, which I would suggest is a far more common house type in the UK than a posh detached house! In order to fit it, I had to demolish an outbuilding and have the electricity supply moved. The gas has been capped off but Cadent want £1800 to actually disconnect the supply so for the time being, I have a five foot height steel gas pipe sticking up in my garden. Moving the electric wasn’t cheap either and my back garden looked like the Somme for about a month. I have a high temperature heat pump so I only had to replace one radiator and fortunately, the place where the heat pump was to be located had a small cloakroom on the other side which I ripped out, temporarily, so the cylinder etc could be installed. There is now room or reinstall the WC and basin. In spite of the stress, upheaval and periods of panic when people didn’t turn up, I am very happy. Lashings of hot water and the heating is working very well. I also have solar PV. I have a Hive control connected but I don’t use it. Total cost, including all the ancillaries, around £20,000 less £5,000 from our generous government (haha). Incidentally, I had already upgraded insulation well above minimum requirements well in advance. My electricity costs are alarming at the moment, and even with the loss of the gas, it is costing quite a bit more; not unexpected because the cost per Kw for electric is so much higher. Also, no sun or days so no solar PV. It’s early days and costs will come down eventually. I have no regrets but I am lucky I can afford it.
Sounds like a typical high temp inefficient design sadly. This job here was almost half the cost of yours and will be way cheaper to run than gas as well. Sadly some companies still pedal high temp heat pump and no rad changes nonsense.
I insisted on a high temperature heat pump because I refused to have thumping great radiators installed and I have spent a lot of money on custom painted radiators. As I said, it is early days but based on the design documents sent to me and the general level of workmanship, I would say they have done a pretty good job. The actual cost of the system to me after the £5k grant was about £9,000. The rest was for all the work required to make it possible. Incidentally, tens of thousands of UK terrace houses have looped electric supplies, my neighbour was looped into my service head, and that has to be removed. That work didn’t cost me any money but a huge amount of upheaval. I am 100% in favour of the transition but I do think it is important not to be taken in my our idiot government’s fantasies about what is involved. Even at 50% of the overall cost, it is far beyond the reach of most ordinary people. I have no regrets.
Thanks for the video. Love your content. Small gripe would be that this is not a typical UK house. Only about 15% of UK houses are detached. A 3 bed semi would probably be the most typical.
I have videos on those already!
Looks like a really neat installation. Interesting what you’re saying about the heating circuit pipe sizing, whilst remodelling my house over the last few years I’ve increased the heating pipe size to the same as this install. Looks like I was thinking along the right lines.
Great video as always. Thanks for taken my phone call this week when I was completing my first priority hot water install. Got it sorted. 👍🏻
what was it in the end?
@@UrbanPlumbers switch live wire to the hot water valve in the wrong place. Something so simple but I couldn’t see it at the time.
Great video, interested to hear why you had to install the cylinder as vented. Low incoming main pressure?
Not only low but also difficult and expensive to run new mains to the garage as existing stop cock is in the middle of fully renovated kitchen.
@@UrbanPlumbers first time I saw an unvented with a capped PRV I did panic a bit, that one didn’t have a very well thought out label though.
Hope you’re well and keep up the good work 🫡
Top tier content. Better and better each time. ❤🔥
Looks like a nice Ford Capri winding under those boxes
Do the radiators have 22mm feed, or do they reduce to 15mm? How well would 15mm work and would you need a higher/lower flow rate?
As a heating installer, gas registered and qualified in unvented H/W, with three times more years in the game than you Mr Urban Plumber, I can say that your work is of the finest there is, If anyone wants an ASHP installed (that includes me) this is the guy to install it, his also a Heat-Geek assured, ASHP Qualified installer.
Question, all your ASHP installs use 3 ports valves, is this simply to take advantage of the auto bypass this creates.
Thank you for the comment. Those valves a diverters not 3 ports. I don’t use 2 ports as I don’t zone my systems. They run what is called PDHW and open loop.
Ok so they only move to block the heating port when hot water is called as that's at a higher temp then goes back so low water temp flow to the heating. thanks.
@@derekclark7545 correct
Awesome video...we were just told today our 1970s home probably needs re-piped as the boiler is good but the return temp isn't even close. Should we be considering ashp with the grants availabe? And the fact we'll be pulling up floors anyway?
First of all, great videos very informative.
It would be interesting to know the price of each of these installs you do.
A lot of people are driven by price.
Love your work and your video’s, as the owner of an older house similar to the one in this video, I am wondering does it make much difference to overall efficiency if I were to install a heat pump on a wall what direction the wall faces, i.e North, East, South or West?
Makes no difference at all
I found your video very interesting and informative. Clearly you are very knowledgeable and thorough. My house was built by Bryant in 1990. The radiators on the ground floor are fed by narrow bore pipes. Upstairs the pipes to the radiators are a wider bore. Is this likely to present problems if I decide to have a heat pump installed?
No, microbore is usually fine - just needs a very good installer to make it work - check my latest video about it
Please live a link for the tool, u have used. Especially the return temp meter that connect to the phone 👍
What is the recommended piping size for all pipes leading from the heat pipe to radiators in an old property with solid walls?
This will depend on the heat loss of the property and the length of pipework (New and existing). A larger heat loss will need larger pipework, as will a longer run.
As a rule of thumb 28mm is okay up to around 10KW, 35mm to around 15KW. Average heat loss of a UK home is around 8KW.
Lovely neat pipework and lagging 👍
Thank you 👍
Very well installed. Quality work great knowledge. I suspect many heat pump systems installed with a lack of consideration for flow rates and rad DT's resulting in "heat pump" doesn't work.
Yes, correct. Plus wrong sizing, over zoning and wrong controls plus unnecessary buffers and pumps
The only time I see my heat pump is when I go out into the back garden and actually look at it. But personally it’s much better looking that some other heat pumps and it doesn’t bother me. I actually stood on mine to wash the apex window on the extension haha! So it comes in handy. 😂
Your are very good at answering all the tech problems, but I still think cost is a problem in the short term for most people. I still Com across non condensing boilers not being changed due to cost.
We have been using heat pump for the last 10 years.we also have been using low water content rads such as Jaga rads or aluminium radiators with no problems,Jaga lads have the advantage of being able to self convect at low temperature (DBE type)and take up to a 3rd less space than the equivalent output rad!I don't remember any of your systems having solar panels incorporated with heat pump installs? Sorry if I have missed a video with panels.all are heat pump jobs would have solar thermal panels fitted.great video's
Great videos; really well explained. One thing I would like some more information about is why heat zoning is not recommended. Does this mean that the whole house has to be set at the same temperature?
Watch the HeatGeek videos on this explaining it in detail. Seems simple is better and the illusion of micro control is outweighed by the thermal mass of a house just being maintained by weather compensation gives best efficiency.
I have had issues with micro climates too in commercial systems in acoustic enclosures. The cold air can not escape so the units just freeze up.
I always wondered if this enclosures were any good. Never seen one on domestic
People who say pumps only work on newer properties clearly don't grasp that heating systems are sized on heat loss of the house, an old house with more heat loss needs more energy , you still get the saving from the heat pump , it's just that costs will still be higher than similar size new build, actually on an older house the payback can be quicker than a newer more energy efficient house. Also it's perfectly possible to recycle some of the larger radiators to other rooms if you do need to upsize some radiator to work with a lower flow temp, by cascading radiators you can keep the costs for that aspect very low.
All rads for this job were £1000. Client removed old rads and hang new ones himself to save on the installation cost as well.
Very interesting videos. We just had a VWL 125/6 plus a Unitower VIH 190 installed. Will install the SensoComfort and SensoNet unit in a few days as they were on backorder initially. So, currently we have the unit on "summer" mode only using it for tap hot water. In our 145 smq meter house we have radiators, so I wanted to ask you if we should still use our radiators in the same way as previously? We have older style thermostats that we usually set at around 2-3 for a temperature around 19 degrees. Do you know of any digital thermostats that work with the Vaillant system?
Don’t use any thermostats. Only use vaillant controls if you can
That is a highly informative channel!
I have learned the modern heating equipment and approaches how to retrofit the houses from you. We are building a 300m2 new house with a 12 kW Valliant split heat pump (previous generation) with all native controllers (720, VR71,...). The house is well insulated, has huge low-temperature radiators and a lot of heated floors.
My installer follows the standard typical design from Valliant with all Valliant controllers, temperature compensation, 3x water pumps (radiators, heated floors, boiler), 100 liters buffer for heat pump, 200-liter cylinder for hot water. However, each room has a Rehau thermostat which controls radiators and heated floors with individual temperature presets. You mentioned that zone control might kill heat pump efficiency.
Could you please tell me about the potential heat pump efficiency risks of this approach?
Interested to understand what you use for the design / heat loss calculation? Main variable that is affecting mine is ventilation / ACH figure, can make a big difference across 230m2 bungalow
Great install. I'm guessing around £15K to install?
Great video. i like your very neat work.
Thank you very much!
You videos are very good, should be shown in schools! I just dont understand there are many regs but they dont have a reg about positioning of external unit to keep it working efficiently. Like not in a small alleyway on the floor.....
How high up could the outdoor unit go? I see lots of AC units high up on walls, could the same be done with these? or at least high enough to park the bins under it?
Lovely job that, if only everyone doing this type of job was as good as you 👍
Loving watching your videos, fancy doing an install on my house up in Scotland :D
a bit too far for me!
Congratulations on another install..meet you at installer show and you pass me to a guy who do teaching...so you can confirm that a heat pump will work...but will heat up the house slowly...comparing to a gas boiler..but will also save money on electricity comapring to gas usage by a 30 or 35 kw boiler....am i correct
i would love to work with someone like you on heat pumps great work 🙏🏾
Another great installation vid
Thanks for the positive video. We are at a stage where it is down to the designer/installer to get the system right as the technology is ready. Good luck to Heat Geeks and others teaching the "light touch" approach to heat pump installation.
On the subject of Y strainers versus ball filters, I had Brendon Uys over inspecting a heat pump the other day; he recommended the Impel FBVM 486-32 mag-filter and strainer (Kv value of 21.1 according to their datasheet). £70 each, so not cheap!
Could you please update us on property max achievable ambient temperature. As we all feel comfortable in diff temps I'm wondering what range is available. Would be also nice to see running costs compared to old setup in about year time...👍
I will do a follow up video in the spring after the first winter
Excellent job guys. Well done as usual. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it
Would a heat pump work with micro bore pipe work to the radiators
Excellent video, how is this done in houses with solid or vinyl floors such as karndean? You cannot simply lift/replace like a carpet???
Another great video, cheers Szymon!
Interesting you can raise it off the ground. Best place for a heat pump at my house would be on the side, which has the major downside of obstructing the narrow driveway. Could a unit be mounted several metres above ground? Thereby alloying vehicles clearance.
It can, but it will make it rather difficult to service and for any warranty call outs you will have to provide scaffolding, so I am n out sure if it’s worth it
Neat work Szymon! Looks great 👍🏻
I installed a heat pump in our house from 1932. We are mostly satisfied and while it does use electric heating sometimes, it is very rare and we hope to do a pass on the windows, attic insulation and replace the old single pane radiators with modern low-temp ones for more stable indoor temperatures and a more efficient house.
I love your detailed approach to your projects but I think you lucked out with this house. Nice size F&R pipework to each side of the house & not a length of microbore in sight which, for a 1980's house, is very unusual.
I cannot see me ever being able to have an ATW HP system in my 1986 house because it has 10mm microbore pipework to every radiator in the house. It would cost too much & create so much upheaval to upgrade all the pipework. I'm therefore looking at an Air to Air heat pump multi split system with a separate solution for HW - maybe an all-in-on HP cylinder. This also means I can get cooling in the summer if needed. Another good vid.
Video in October will be exactly that - installation in a 1980 house full of microbore
@@UrbanPlumbers Now that I will be super interested to look at. I'm a retired HVAC product manager/trainer so I know how important flow rates are for any successful ATW system. Normally microbore kills the flow rate & to replace it all is just too expensive & so much hassle. It will be very interesting to see how you go about overcoming this problem & achieve an efficient system. I'm already subbed so I wait for the next vid in anticipation.
Another awesome video, great detail. What do you do with TRVs on radiators (both replacement or retained)
I live in a house with one bathroom which has an electric shower and just two hot water taps, one in the bathroom and one in the kitchen. Would it be worth doing hot water with a heat pump, or just keep the electric shower and put in some sort of electric on demand heaters for the taps? For instance, I'd quite like one of those Quooker Boiling Water taps in the kitchen.
Thanks - video is excellent - helped me understand more.
Question: If retrofitting to house with showers, do the showers run off the mains pressure still, or do you need a pump? Thanks.
Why did you choose to install the cylinder in a new location rather than replacing the existing one up on the platform?
Minimum pipe runs and much safer to put 250kg on a solid floor
@@zlmdragon. i guess from my perspective we dont have a ton of spare space so would want to find a way to replace in place. The featured property certainly has an abundance of available space, not really common in majority of UK homes.
Hi love your videos. We are refurbishing our home in Holland. We have laid new underfloor heating throughout (Upstairs and ground floor). We did have a big combi boiler but removed it and now looking at what efficiency options we could consider for a new system. Gas is expensive so we would like avoid that big possible. Floor area is about 275 meter square. I like the look of that Vaillant heat system. Could you share many ideas / thoughts? Thanks.
What pump is used within the unit ? Just curious because if I was developing a unit I would use a mag drive pump , would like to see the inside of the unit if you have time in the future.
Someone please reply🙏
I don’t see how having a flow temp of 45 degrees could keep you warm in the winter? I’m referring to living in a standard U.K. house.
Also what happens to to the water in the cylinder if they can only achieve 45 degrees - wouldn’t you get legionnaires?? I’m assuming the immersion must kick in to bring it up to 55??
Thanks
You can kept ANY house warm with a flow of 30c! As long as you have emitters large enough to transfer the energy required. Heating is not about temperature as much as it is about heat transfer, and that can happen at pretty much any temperature as long as it is above your room temperature.
For example - a single panel small radiator may need a flow of 65c to keep a room at 21c. The same room may only need 35c to keep it at 21c if the radiator is upsized to let’s say a triple rad.
You don’t need high temperatures to keep rooms at 21c!
Hot water is done separately to heating and doesn’t need immersion, as the unit can go to 75c, it is just less efficient at those high temperatures.
@@UrbanPlumbers ah I see! Thanks a lot for replying.
I had no idea an air source heat pump can generate 75c. That’s amazing!
So what do you recommend for small to medium sized properties where you’d struggle to get the cylinder in- still a gas combi?
One last question….will air source heat pumps work with 3 column rads or do they have to be K2’s?
Thanks & please keep making you great videos 👍
Really enjoy your videos showing a balanced view on heat pumps from a true professional. Learning from previous issues and iterating - continuous development is so important in any technical trade. Installers got away with badly planned/configured boiler installations as they were inefficient/problematic but still "works" depending on your definition of works (your radiators would get hot at least). But with heat pumps all the cowboys are being caught out as they barely work or flat out do not work if they're not designed correctly - I dread to think the amount of installs that might fall into that category in the future. Hopefully the silver lining is that it weeds out installers who do not really understand the technical aspects of their trade, don't get proper training and think they can get away with lashing stuff in, which they have been able to an extent with gas boilers. With regards to space - I can see issues in my property in the future which has just a 36kw combi boiler in a cupboard in the kitchen with no extra space surrounding - in this situation is there any kind of cylinder that would be suitable to install inside this cupboard or would it be better to locate a new cylinder in the loft space? (quite difficult with extra pipework, although in my place it could be run externally if it came to it)
Hi ! - You're videos are excellent and are helping me decide on the way ahead. I have an oil boiler and a wood-burning stove boiler. I can use one or the other depending on our needs and the weather. I wanted to ask if you have done an install with a Valliant hybrid heat pump with a wood-burning stove. My existing system uses a neutraliser to distribute hot water to both the hot water tank or my radiators from either the stove boiler or the oil boiler.
Love the lagging, never seen that glue, how do you make it look neat over compression stuff & press fit ?
The glue is ultra strong so works well even over press
Thanks for posting this. It has really challenged my prejudices. These being 1. Noise. 2 need to upgrade the pipework to the rads. Can you do a followup and visit the site in a hard frost winters day. So I can check out the noise then and if the owner still finds the heating adequate.
Sure no problem. He is 15 minutes away from me so should not be a problem.
Brilliant video again 💪
Nice work, another fantastic install. It's great to see that it's possible to run even large systems like that open loop without a buffer. What's the reason you installed the cylinder in vented configuration? Would unvented not give better hot water pressure?
Thanks again! Mains supply is in the middle of a kitchen extension with tiled floors, just impossible to extend to the garage without a major cost and building works involved.
@@UrbanPlumbers ah OK, that makes sense. How did you pressurise the heating system without mains water? I thought you mentioned that you did manage to get a feed from somwhere
@GlynHudson by using old system full from the header that connected to the mains in the loft. This is fine for central heating but not adequate for dhw
would love to see a installation on a early 1900 mid terrace house. Does the side passage on such houses even have enough space for them even if you raise them?
No, those passages are way too narrow usually
@@UrbanPlumbers so what would be the solution for mid terrace houses?
@viktorlundstrom780 back garden, front garden, flat roof.
Super professional work as ever. I had my vented cylinder replaced with unvented. The cylinder is now in the loft and the airing cupboard has gone, is this a problem on a pump installation?
Informative video. Are you able to say what the cost of the installation was, what the heat loss calculations said what heat loss the house had and which size of heat pump was selected, how much it will cost to run the heat pump in relation to gas etc. More data please.
Very interesting.
-What is the cost of installing it and the equipment?
-How many kws of electricity does use on average day to day?
-How much does servicing cost every year?
-How long is the units lifespan?
-How much is a replacement unit to buy and install?
I love the idea of a heat pump, albeit I just can't afford it at the moment, but I am concerned about space. The only place we could conceivably have the outdoor unit would be right on our patio which feels a bit less than ideal but I guess could work. We are an end terrace and have no side access at all. BUT the bigger issue is the amount of space needed inside and the awkwardness of where the existing UFH manifold is relative to where we could site the outdoor unit. We do have a loft and it currently has the hot water immersion tank (140 or 150l I think) plus the cold water header which feeds the main shower, which we use exclusively, and the bath, which we never use anyway. Right now we have an electric flow boiler which takes up no space at all. The loft hatch isn't all that big so I'd be dubious about a cylinder fitting up there (these new ones look to be about just over 500mm wide I think). So, assuming this is the case, what options are there likely to be for a house like mine (I do have on other possible place but it is a very useful storage cupboard so I'd have to work out where we put the absurd number of hoovers we have, but really I'm just interested what can be done for those more marginal houses that really do have space constraints that can't be overcome, or not cost effectively)
Great video.
I was thinking of getting a heat pump and similar to this house i would probably need to replace all the single panel under sized radiators for doubles. If i did this first and ran my gas boiler at a lower water temp e.g. 45°C would that give me an idea of how warm my house would be using a heat pump - thanks
To compare a heat pump at 45c you need to run your boiler at around 50-55c
Love the way you explain things. I have an 40s house and we did the heating in the 90s and used 10mm microbore to the radiators, would this be too small a diameter for the flow rates?
Thank you. There is no definitve answer to your question. It all depends on the following factors:
- heat loss of the room
- size of the propsoed radiators and flow rates
- length of the microbore pipework
In most cases 10mm can work well, and if not you always have an option to improve insulation and make 10mm work well.
Everything with heat pumps should be carfully surveyed and calcuated to have dfinitve answers or to find ways of making microbore work.
Very interesting. Sounds like important improvements in the units have been made wrt noise and vibration. It would be great to know what other improvements are coming / in the pipeline. However, difficult to comment on this installation because it sounds like it was at the highest level of spec for radiators and pipework before work started, so obviously this reduced cost and work. Great for them but not sure how often this is the case. What would be interesting would be some user feedback from these users on a v cold day. Being fully functional in summer is one thing but obviously not the real test.
I always post feedback from my installations. Check my other videos - there is 3 on my channel with interviews after the winter with my heat pump clients
Great video, have you had any experience using Collum radiators and would they work just as well as k2?
Your very knowledgeable, in my apartment I have Stelrad K2 Radiators fitted with Drayton TVR4 temperature control, 10mm plastic pipes branch off from a 22mm Manifold I have a unzoned system, Viessmann 200W B2B Gas Combination Boiler,
I have all the temperature equipment But its 10mm plastic pipes to every radiator would you measure from Drayton TVR4 input to the flow valve on the other side? Plastic 10mm is Not a good conductor of heat like copper 15mm pipe,
I be honest yes I should have gone for 15mm copper pipe, but my thoughts was to have as little water in the pipes,
So I'm looking for a Delta of 10 - 11°C ? Or Far Lower I've upgraded the pump on the Viessmann 200WB2B to the recommended high efficiency pump I've had the system nearly 14 years, I recently did a cold water flush with Fernox F8 left in for just over a week, that helped a lot to get scale from the system,
So in 3 bedroom apartment 110sq ft 9 Radiators inc two towel Radiators I just want to set up the system to optimum
Love these videos...I believe you when you say that heat pumps can work well in Uninsulated or badly insulated houses. HOWEVER, this Myth has become commonplace.
Could you create a video that explains how or why a heat pump can work in an Uninsulated house to replace an Oil or Gas boiler?
Love the channel, SUBSCRIBED!!
On my list. I will have an installation in an uninsulated castle one day.
As others have said, I love your work the detail and research you do l feel if you installed a system that wasn’t quite working to 100% . You would there at you own expense to correct the unseen fault. Next year I’m moving home and need to upgrade to this system. I also have a renovation place in Italy on lake Como I’d love you to install 😇👍
I like watching the videos but don’t understand much of the heat pump system.
We’re having a grant aerona 3 heat pump and hot water tank plus replacement radiators as well as solar panels fitted under ECO4 grant.
How do we know that what we are getting is any good and suitable for our home?
Thanks for the informative content. What is the typical location of the outside unit for mid terraced or semi detached 100 year old house that is so common somewhere like London? Is there an issue putting it to close to a boundary?
I already have videos about that. Check my channel
Great video! Would a heat pump like this work on a one pipe system (bypass on each radiator) or the system would need to be upgraded to a two pipes system?
Needs to be upgraded
Thanks for another great video. I live in Norway and was wondering if you know at what outdoor temperature HP CoP starts to drop. Here from Dec to Mar it is usually between -5°C and -15°C. This is when the heating is most needed.
Can the DHW cylinder be used as a heat battery to store heat during the night (electricity prices are generally much lower at night) and then release that heat in the morning when the electricity prices surge? Or is there a better backup heating setup?
Thanks again for all your great content, I'm a huge fan ❤