Elder Holland at BYU: "Musket fire from the Temple of Learning”
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- In the 2021 BYU Annual University Conference, Elder Jeffrey R Holland spoke to the staff and faculty of the school he once presided over.
In this clip, Holland uses the metaphor of musket fire to instruct teachers at BYU how they should conceptualize dealing with some of the current social issues of the world.
See links to the original full comments here: newsroom.churc...
My first roommate at BYU was gay. 42 years later I still cringe at how I treated him. It is one of the biggest regrets of my life. I have lost track of him,and never apologized. I f he happens to read this, I want him to know that I am truly sorry.
Me too. I found out years later I had MANY friends who were queer and couldn't tell anyone out of fear. Oh and then I also realized I was queer and had been hurting myself. Don't beat yourself up. When we know better we do better 💕 And I think many people can relate to being sorry for the things we said when we were mormon.
Oh please people. Quit victimizing everything. Just treat everyone kind and quit being a victim and creating victims.
@@jamesross2438 People are victims of this hate speech.
@@KitKat-gw4rh You are correct. Many people are a victim of hate speech. Is a lot of people are making up hate speech in their own minds however
@@jamesross2438 Being a White, heterosexual male.somehow makes life a little easier.
I think he got to the real issue when he mentioned some don’t want to donate to the university anymore
Then mentions how they hold the purse strings to all of their programs, budgets, and salaries.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
I'm really hoping their sponsors drop them.
@Tyler G Do gay people really need tears to be shed for them specifically and in higher volume? are they a higher or holier kind of humans?
@Tyler G Today it seems that people think they are worth more and sometimes they think they are worth less because they have homosexual feelings. their feelings has nothing to do with their worth. The real discussion point is this: Do people want to engage in homossexual behavior to satisfy their feelings? if they do, go for it. others that think differently should respect. If homossexuals wants to proselyte to the world about their movement...that`s fine but do it in the public space or in the private space that allows that, But homossexuals also should respect if an institution teaches that their god does not approve homossexual behavior. Nobody is forced to follow an institution, And lets move on and agree to disagree. Maybe a homosexual can create their church and tell people their god approves of it and whoever believes that, that`s fine....do you know what I mean? why are we fighting about this? its ridiculous.
The valedictorian did not “commandeer” the podium when he announced he was gay. His speech was approved in advance by the BYU administration.
That’s kind of why E.Holland’s address is aimed at the faculty
@@eltoro9446 ignorance is bliss for you isn’t it?
Yes he did commandeer the podium because that wasn't the place to say anything about his sexual orientation.
@@andrewj.lacayo6256 hello 👋 anyone in there???? His speech was literally approved by the school faculty BEFORE he gave it to the student body you idiot …
BYU knew EXACTLY what he was going to say!
Holland is the one that COMMANDEERED the podium…
hello 👋ignorance is bliss for the indoctrinated …
As someone who graduated BYU still single, I hope to never hear a speaker thanking their spouse for being supportive. That doesn't represent my experience and I don't like it. 😜
Regardless of where you stand, it’s really strange for him to say ‘you think this issue has hurt you, you have no clue how much I’ve cried over it’
Oh cry me a river liar Holland.
Why do you think it's strange?
I understand that because there are times when we wept over our childrens choices he is weeping for that same reason because when we all stand before God, God will not say I love you so much so for you I will bend the rules
He is crying because the knows God's ruling on a man who lays with another man
@@debrasmith915 that's dumb af. There are same sex people that are becoming suicidal due to mormon's hateful rethoric, but sure, lets feel bad for this dickhead
@@debrasmith915yeahhh, being gay is a choice 😂😂😂
When Jesus came closest to speaking in a "musket fire" way, who was he speaking to? The sinners? The ones sympathizing with the stranger or those in pain? NO!! He was speaking to religious authorities with power over others. Let that sink in.
Powerful. And yet for Elder Holland, musket fire is needed for LGBT members and those sympathetic to them, but friendly fire is when members criticize religious authorities and of course we should avoid friendly fire. Hmm....
Those “religious authorities” were sinners in their judgment and hypocrisy
@@christinepirir6759 Yip, as we all are to a degree. But religious leaders exercise power over people, so their harm is magnified.
The powerless cannot oppressed the powerful. The church is in the wrong here. Power has gotten to their heads and they are the secret combinations now. You can’t have $100,000,000,000 and be charitable
Oh yes. Just have a look at who is hoarding up the money while talking about giving freely.
The church has become precisely what Jesus constantly criticised.
I'm repeatedly amazed by how the oppressors try to become the oppressed.
Speech should be titled, "Elder Holland turns on the waterworks and plays the victim card."
@@sgee-vc1hz 🤣🤣
Right? Incredible.
Oh right, a religious church wanting its teachers to actually teach the doctrine of the church 🙄 how unreasonable.
Seriously?? This isn’t just some university, it’s a Latter-Day Saint school, OF COURSE THEY’RE GOING TO TEACH THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.
@@annaceleste2073 The point is that those beliefs are causing pain, and even deaths. And then he turns around and cries about how oppressed HE is.
I wish it was possible to see the reactions of the audience
The saddest part is, for a majority of the crowd, it could take months or years for them to fully comprehend the real message behind the “loving voice” of their leader.
Blind faith for sure
@@itsjustemm Exactly
@@itsjustemm It took me many year's to fully comprehend that this kind of talk was garbage. And I met the guy once. It was only a brief handshake and him saying "hello Young man how are you?" At a Stake Conference when I was 12. He seemed nice and almost Grandfatherly. That was almost 19 year's ago. As the years wore on I began to see and hear things from him that didn't sit right with me but I like many of them will do chalked it up to him simply being imperfect (as we all are). But this was goes sooo far beyond simple imperfections. I have a friend who is Gay and still a member of the church in good standing. And he told me that although he has held the church's standards and supported them for 30 year's that this talk was beyond hurtful😥
@@jonjahr3403 if everyone respects everyone everything is gonna be okay , this is about teachers hurting students members and that is separating more LGBT people from not lgbt people, I grew up with lesbians and gay friends when everyone respects who they want to live there is NEVER problems. That is something personal .
Five years. We're coming up on five years since the LDS church took him from me. The man I loved. We only dated for a few months. We were happy. We didn't want to break up, but as Mormons who were trying their hardest to live up to the church's standards, we were too afraid of what might happen to us if the church ever found out. Three weeks later, he was dead. By the time the funeral service took place, word had gotten out about his sexuality. Because this is Utah, and the gossip ring is especially prevalent here, I heard a great deal of this. "He obviously couldn't handle this trial. He made his choice."
I speak now directly to Jeff Holland. Yes, the man I loved made his choice. What happened to him was tragic. However, you, with all your money, influence, your heterosexual marriage and children, could not possibly understand the depths of this tragedy. I loved him, and you took him from me. I'm not the only one. You are directly responsible for the deaths of so many youth who have suffered anguish beyond anything in your narrow view of the world, youth who felt they could never fit in with your views of what a young Mormon should be.
Why would you say God's love is unconditional, only to contradict that in the same breath? God's love is unconditional. Through the heresy of the Book of Mormon, proven false by the LDS church itself, and the expectations you place on the members, tithing (money that the church has been proven to have used dishonestly), temple worship (itself being little more than Masonic rites), church callings, the word of wisdom, modesty in dress (what do wearing a muscle shirt and growing my hair out have to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ?), and so on; the LDS church has built an organization with policies that rival the law of Moses itself. You have become the Pharisees that you claim to condemn. The Bible is clear about what conditions God requires of us. The answer: to believe. Beyond that, absolutely nothing. "Grace" is a word that means kindness that's extended to one who doesn't deserve it. Christ shows grace to all of us, regardless of how much money you have or whom you choose to love. It appears that Joseph Smith, in his haste to restore the "plain and precious truths" to the Bible, never comprehended the simplicity and beauty of what was already there. All else is heresy.
You declare "unequivocally your love and that of your brethren for those who live with this same-sex challenge, and so much complexity that goes with it." You claim to "have wept and prayed and wept again, in an effort to offer love and hope." You boast "empathy and understanding for everyone while maintaining loyalty to prophetic leadership and devotion to revealed doctrine." Logic, when coupled with the Bible and the church's own sordid and inconsistent history, dictates that Russell Nelson is not a prophet. Logic dictates that so-called revealed doctrine is not doctrine at all if it is continually thrown away by whomever the church's current prophet is. Logic dictates that your words about love for those who live with this challenge and its complexity and about weeping and praying to offer love and hope are just that: words.
You and your associates will continue as you have done, I'm certain, without guilt or conscience. People will continue to die as a result of your words and actions. I won't be part of this anymore. I hope the church reaches a reckoning at some point. Whether it be through your symbolic enemy musketfire or friendly fire, I don't know. It won't bring the man I love back to me.
I am so, so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine the pain you must have endured. Exmo here, I'm disgusted at myself for ever having once supported this cult. I wish you healing, and happiness❤
Your grief has made you bitter. Seek help.
@@jennifernelson7235 I am, and I truly appreciate your concern. Writing it out like this has helped me see that. I should have gone to a psychologist years ago. No time like the present, I suppose.
..no it won't bring your husband back. But you can tell your story to the Lord when you see him, I'm sure he'll understand. Blaming church leaders and the church is your prerogative, but the Lord will have the last say. Don't be disappointed when you hear what he has to say.
@Jackstuff33 Suicide is no one's fault. It's beyond everyone's control except for the person who does it. And if they do, the response should never be to blame the victim. Suicide is a response to overwhelming misery, done because the victim believes there are no other better options to escape their pain. Rationality is not applicable. Anyone who implies they deserve it, or that someone is responsible for it, is actively hindering empathetic dialogue.
I wish that he would have given background about the student that announced on social media why their "faith" was destroyed after studying at BYU. I would love to think that this person was sitting in a literary theory course because they were majoring in English. That person happens to read something like Claude Levi-Strauss' The Stuctural Study of Myth (1955). And that young student based on such an old text and philosophy has an "oh my God" moment and decides to leave the Church. Then their parents react. Imagine being so indoctrinated that you think that BYU is some sort of deconstructivist breeding ground.
Literary theory classes and philosophy got me out of the church!
Looking at JWs was our wake-up call, it was like looking in a mirror and seeing a monster.
I'm not same sex challeneged. I'm very good at it, actually.
PLEASE FJSKFNS
😂❤❤❤
God damn furries
I’m challenged I can’t find a girlfriend 😔
Gross
What are the timestamps people disagree with? As a non-LDS, this seems like the most mild speech ever.
I agree.
What I've seen is that, when somebody leaves the church, they can't really leave it alone. Anti-Mos and Ex-Mos seem hell-bent on destroying the church as an attempt at outward validation of their internal convictions.
I think, they consider their new-found beliefs as 'insider knowledge' that the proverbial lemmings in the church structure are 'too stupid' to see the Truth of.
Remember how they kept saying don’t write the brethren and then obviously they read the mail
That because old ladies would write the church president as to how sacrament was being run. They put a stop to letters like that.
Is this even a letter? We don't know who it's from? We don't know if it's even a single letter or if it's an artistic compilation of multiple emails he got from Friends.
Agreed! He can make up any “letter” that suits his story.
Broke my ankle running to these comments 🎥
Imagine if this were 50 years ago, and the controversy were the priesthood and temple ban and civil rights.
He quoted president Kimball from a speech at BYU on that subject
@@TherealHRHMarissa interesting… which quote? 🌈
That is a key point that will be more obvious over time. First polygamy, than blacks, and now LGBT issues. Within a couple of decades the Q15 will have demonstrated their inability to get anything right beyond moving to two hour church.
Well, given choosing to live a homosexual lifestyle is wholly incompatible with Christianity whereas discriminating against people on the basis of their skin color is wholly incompatible with Christianity, I don't think Holland is wrong on this issue.
@@kentthalman4459: "First polygamy [...] and now LGBT issues."
So you believe that people have the right to choose to love whom they love, right? We're in agreement on that. But do you not see the logical inconsistency of believing that homosexuals have the right to marry but that polygamy should be illegal?
It is really very simple. If you don't want an L.D.S., Christ Centered education, there are thousands of other schools you can attend.
Exactly, like people are getting mad about byus policies that are literally stated anywhere you look for them.💀 If they are so upset by the way the school runs, there are thousands of other amazing schools they can attend.
Amen to that 🙌🏻 there is an insane amount of schools and universities out there that will 100% support whatever ideology one has
Once again, grateful to have left this belief system behind me
again the money thing. The church does not, in any way, need tithing to run this university. $120 Billion plus and growing, is more, much much more than enough. And to think that the church raised the amount missionary families need to pay from $400 to $500 during a PANDEMIC does not reflect well.
Do you mean the Mormon Church actually charges people money to those that serve those missions that spend a year or so trying to get people to join their church?
@@JaimeGarcia-pe7bj
Yep. Each missionary (or their family) pays $500/month “to help cover living costs.” The fee went up from $400 last summer. (Yeah, in the middle of the pandemic, the profit was inspired to raise the cost for giving 18-24 months of your life to support their business plan.) There are plenty of LDS families that have a very hard time coming up with $6000/year. The church does pay travel expenses but not baggage fees. They recommend each missionary should carry $200 cash to cover those incidentals. They like to see people sacrifice for the good of their bottom line.
@@DancingQueenie Thank you. I had a tour in UTAH as an AGR. -for 4 years. That's the HQ for the LDS. I did have to put up with the missionaries and got shunned for not joining. I honestly never thought the families had to pay to send them on these missions? I thought the church subsidized them. They would cut grass for people and be busy all day. I know that the Mormon Church tries to get people to join so they can extract 10% off the top from them? 10% is a lot of money plus having you Sunday ruined by having to show up to church half a day. I heard on the media that some Mormon from a pioneer family just ratted them out for a billion dollar trust fund from tithing money? Thank you for your polite and informative comment. I don't like to say negative things about people's beliefs systems. I was raised a Catholic. True, the Catholic Church sucks. But the people that run it know those they are going to be able to shake down and throw down guilt trips on...v those they can't. But it seems the Mormon Church, if you will, " games harder for the money? Just my opinion, but all churches are businesses that sell nothing of any value and exist and thrive by shaking down as much money as they can get out of its members. No lie, when I was their I knew a couple of locals that were "cultural Mormons" that were not with the program at all. But they knew how to be contrite at holidays so as to not cut out of a will or estate? I would imagine Utah has improved as church attendance in the US is diminishing? Thank you for the insight. What you say makes sense with what I observed in 4 years.🇺🇸
@@JaimeGarcia-pe7bj yes. Per month. And many live in terrible conditions.
@@truthseeker4286 Thank you. When I PCSed to Utah and bought a house in BTFL I thought all of them were indeed rich. They lived in nice houses and all had new cars. Several years later I learned the state had like the highest bankruptcy rate. To be accommodating I sat through the missionary talks. I am no really a church type. But I got the idea when Joseph Smith wrote the book he thought it to be maybe the first prosperity religion? I really don't remember seeing any really poor people in Utah. I knew some Mexicans in Rose Park that worked hard, but were not poor. If you don't join the Mormon Church they take it very personally......like you are rejecting them and not their church. I was raised Catholic and that sucks. But just because the RCC church sucks does not mean I want to join some other church. But as to your statement: Are there poor Mormons? I still know three people from there that told me that when they were growing up that they were poor but their parents would give money to the church before buying food.......if you can get behind that shit? That's the only time in my life I ever anybody say they would payoff some flavor or church before buying food, utilities, housing. It alienated these people from that Mormon church because they said it did. But be that as it may.....I think that all churches are basically businesses that are tax exempt. ALTHOUGH, the Mormon church is for sure one of the more horrible examples. When I moved to Ft Hood, TX I was thankful to have lived and worked in UT. There are some nice people there. And I made some good money off the house.
When a guy writes “that’s why I’m crying” into the script to read on the teleprompter
It's great how they learn to cry on que. He reads it and goes oh yeah I'm supposed to cry here and there he does 😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
He was crying due to the homecoming to BYU and his friends there. Holland was president of BYU for 9 years.
@@scottbrandon9390 its on his teleprompter....
@@scottbrandon9390 Oh please he was crying for effect, because he's a showman
The amount of people who are at odds with this statement is astounding.
If you believe this man to be a Porphet of God, there should be no hesitation in knowing we are to defend Christ's Church and God's commandments.
Those who do not believe also must know that no one is forced to attend this Univeristy nor attend this Church, though we want all to come to Christ.
Gods gift to us is our free agency and we can choose to exercise it how we will.
I buried a dear friend who never married, who passed from kidney failure at 58.
She never had relations in this life and remained chaste, knowing that all blessings are given to us after this life if we are faithful.
If you are gay/queer, etc., it does not mean in any way that you are any less worthy to go to the temple and receive all things after this life.
It all comes down to if you have sincerely prayed and searched to know if this gospel is true
President Nelson holds the purse strings.. was that a threat to all the faculty to stay in line?
100%
You bet it is. Remember the September Six back in 1993?
Nelson isn’t going to hold back any money. BYU gets massive amounts of money from pro LGBTQ families and businesses. This is all theater by Holland.
I don’t see it as a threat at ALL!!! It’s a reminder that if you freely choose to teach or attend BYU, there are certain beliefs and standards you must obtain and that goes for EVERYONE!!! If they don’t like it, they should find somewhere that holds their same values??? Right???
@@sionel2604 ..I'm from the South Pacific, and I can't see why these matters should be an issue? Certainly the issues are complex, and there is heartbreak at every turn. If people don't wish to abide by what the brethren see as being representative of good governance based around the family, then perhaps another learning institution would suit. Heaven knows there are enough institutions in the US that would gladly accommodate those that have issues with an institution, that I'm sure some of my tithing goes towards. Manuia Sione.
Maybe instead of spending “hours and hours discussing what can be done “, they should ask God. That is what they can do, right?
I’m sure they’ve been on their knees for hours, days and years about this.
@@jennifernelson7235 I suppose they don't have such a direct line to god then.
@@bipolarrambling242 unlike you I suppose
@@craigmoore5394 What??
@@bipolarrambling242it has nothing to do with a "direct line" to God. He isn't going to give everybody every clear answer to everything in the world. Because the whole reason we are hear IS to face challenges like this. To overcome them.
It must be so difficult for him, an old, straight, white man, to have to deal with these issues. Did you hear? He spent hours anguishing over it. HOURS.
/s.
Oh you mean a lifetime? No. Oh you mean years? No. Oh you mean months? These stories are rife with inflation. A minimum truthful reading of his statement could be what three or four hours total?
Another Mormon hater.
“If the white man who belongs to the chosen race mixes his seed with the blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot.” Brigham Young Journal of Discourse vol.10 of. 110 October 6 1863
Keep the unity LDS! You can stomach an evil man being your university’s namesake, surely you can tolerate a little gay pride 🏳️🌈 ugh the weeping of these men 🙄 they deserve an Oscar
He's had lots of practice at it.
The tears are always about manipulation.
This millionaire is crying that they're losing the youth. As they should!
@@Katiegirlluv you’d think they’d try a new approach by now… 🙄 just trying to hold onto the elderly members as long as they can.
Oh wow, what does bringing up blood atonement up have anything to do with LGBT issues? Way left field. Guess you just wanted to bring up anothet controversial issue and make the church look weird. Good tactic.
@@davidlake9347 nice deflection
All he is basically saying is that the LDS Church has people attacking their personal values and faith and that if they want to promote their sexual preferences then do it off campus and certainly not at a Graduation ceremony. Is it too hard to ask people who do not agree with these policies to attend a more liberal school? I am not LDS and I am a heterosexual. I do get a little sick and tired of people always pushing their agenda on other people and when it is not agreed to then they are called hateful bigots.
Perfectly said James 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Very well said, James.
Too much common sense here James…
Yep, I agree with James 100%. Stop obsessing over things because you don't feel welcome there, just find a new place where you do feel welcome.
A LOT of kids don't know their gay until college. Denial and shame about yourself can be that strong. Then you go through stage thinking you can be cured. This merry-go-round can go on for years...then they are halfway through school. You can't just walk away from everything you believe and worked for. It's not as easy as...don't go. Be glad you don't struggle.
His speech was almost 40 min LONG, you are cutting this part only because you want to create Problems in the community. People ALL His asking is RESPECT for the student members and donor members + teacher members and every single person Member BELIEVES. He is speaking with Love in the entire speech. I speak two lenguajes and I heard his ENTIRE SPEECH several times and I stand up ⬆️ for his words of love asking to protect the Members community. I and many good people believe that what you all doing is WRONG ! You are just creating problems were they not! Just one more time attacking religion believes of Utah people sadly. If you Hate so much BYU so move. We live in a Free country I am sure there is more important things to put your energy rather then discussing for Not reason. Hopefully one day we can live with RESPECT for others
“University professors and students aren’t allowed to disagree with us. It makes us cry.”
Speech should be titled, "Jeffrey turns on the waterworks and plays the victim card."
Seriously?? It’s a religious school, of course they want that religions beliefs and doctrine actually being taught!! 🙄
@@annaceleste2073 Fair enough. But as a BYU alumnus, I feel there should be a balance between that principle and the principles of intellectual freedom and freedom of expression for students and faculty.
Gag
@@honder1866 I know this is a little off topic, but how does BYU teach things like evolution, paleontology, archaeology...even utah history given the religious dogma? Do they teach these things in a secular manner? How does BYU make that work? How do they draw the line from teachings of prophets and sound science? Thx
If you don't agree with stances taken by the LDS Church, Catholic Church, or whomever, that's fine. Move along. They have a right to their opinions, just like you. They're certain they're right just like you're certain you are. My way of thinking on this is that whether I agree or disagree with viewpoints of the LDS Church, Catholic Church or anyone else for that matter, is immaterial. If you attack someone for being inflexible, doesn't that, in fact, make you inflexible? "My way or the highway?" It's an intolerance paradox- a hypocrisy, in my opinion.
Well said Jack! 👌🙌👏🏻
Exmo here, and I see your point. I really do. The damage here, though, is that LGBTQ youth in the LDS church have a high suicide rate, the policies separate families, and the teachings are harmful.
I understand the "live and let live" attitude, but it's more difficult when one group is actively oppressing the other group.
@@kaylasheppard7746 Thanks, Kayla. Not quite ex-LDS, but disfellowshipped/inactive. It is a delicate situation, to be sure, especially for the LDS and Catholic churches. I think the answer is respectful dialog ( like this), rather than militant approaches, which are totally hypocritical, and in my opinion only lead to combat. In the end everyone stands firmer in their opinion and nothing gets resolved. The bottom line though, is that a religion/club/organization has a right to draw a line on its beliefs, even if unpopular. And the Y or any other church based vs state based school can have its own policies, or people are free to enroll elsewhere. In a nutshell, I may/may not agree with Church policies, but I feel any religion has a right to stand firm and not have to bend to external pressures. Just my opinion. Thank you again, Kayla for your comment, and I agree it is a very serious and delicate situation as depression and suicide are heavy issues.
Before my children decided to go to BUY I told them if the school wants you to wear a purple hat, you wear a purple hat. If you have to be in your apartment at 10:00 - be there and don’t complain. If my kids didn’t think they could follow the rules they were totally free to go to another college or university that wasn’t so strict. All three decided BYU and had no problems. Parents need to be honest with their children and explain what is expected.
@@lorirose9301 Thank you, Lori. I agree, of course. Years ago I went to Ricks. Same deal. Not sure why people feel they need to bend established organizations to their viewpoints. I'm sure Notre Dame and other religion based schools face similar situations. And lest someone misunderstand my viewpoint on this, I'm not even addressing the LGBTQ+ argument. It is definitely a serious and delicate situation. All I'm saying is that if we truly want fairness and flexibility, you certainly don't achieve it from ugly dialog and attacks. I believe the Savior truly does expect us to love ALL, without exception. It's just that every person and every organization is entitled to their own views, even if unpopular. Religion makes normal disagreements even more tricky, because regardless the religion, its followers believe they're THE ONE, and that they are doing God's will. Tongue in cheek here, but sometimes religion keeps good people aimed in a good direction, and sometimes religion drives men mad....
Unifying, as in “I’d like to see a little more musket fire” ? Is that what he means by unifying?
The salmon swims up river to lay her eggs and then die. The fruit tree bursts in the spring with beautiful flowers to produce fruit and seed. All species on earth strive for survival and procreation. Two males can't conceive. Two females can't conceive. Their relationship is infertile and unproductive. Society can't hold this kind of roommate or bedroom arrangement as normal.
Yes, in the same way that Captain Moroni united the people to defend them from the attackers, and even he had to cleanse the government of corruption before he could bring unity.
And Jesus brought peace and unity to his people, but He was also quite the disruptor and revolutionary among the (corrupt) political and religious leaders of the time.
The issue is who are you going to blame for the fighting? Those bringing the contention to your doorstep, or the people who are forced to defend their home? Satan's greatest trick, as the great deceiver and the great accuser, is to cause evil and then blame the righteous for the conflict.
There is no "uniting" with evil. One of the first consequences of God presenting His plan was to cast out a one-third part of the hosts of heaven, those that rejected his plan.
You might need to re-think how you think of the concept of "unity."
@@marcoscamargo3554 why not? The gay population is what, 2-5%? I don’t think we are running the risk of going extinct or turning everyone gay by letting the lgbtq community have the same rights and treatment as everyone else.
@@jandjhirst first of all, Captain Moroni is a fictional character. There is absolutely no evidence for the BOM as a truthful history. 0%. So he is off the table. Secondly, Jesus never advocated for any sort of violence, physical or otherwise. I’m skeptical of the concept of forcing unity, physically or otherwise. Usually ends up with a pile of bodies somewhere. Live and let live. I bet if we tried that and stopped trying to force everyone else to live how we think they should we might actually have a chance at some real peace and maybe even some unity.
@@MrPhillipjac all sex has to lead to offspring? is that his position? if no children can be born it isn't sanctioned by god? Ridiculous Taliban kinda thinking
Please keep giving us your money... we're weeping for it
The sit on $400 billion in assets.
@@scottbrandon9390 then tell the poor to pay them before they buy food or clothes for the kids or yourself. A pay to play sex cult
Actually, if you are excommunicated they specifically ask you stop paying tithing.
@@jfintex43 what does that even mean??? 🤣😂😂
As for me and my house, we sustain Elder Holland and the leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as Prophets, Seers and Revolators, watchmen on the towers warning us and striving to leading us to Christ.
Thank you Elder Holland! We Love you and thank you for speaking the TRUTH!
@@jamesoneil1388 PFFT
Ignorance is bliss for you .. isn’t it ? So so sad … yet so revealing!
Its interesting how well you think you know people you have obviously never met and how quick you are to pass judgment on them.
I sorry you feel so much anger that your comments come across so acidic.
@@jamesoneil1388 James, I don't know you or what has happened to you causing your formation of the feelings you've developed causing the outlook you appear to have toward leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I suppose we all face cross roads that either engender bitterness or compassion. We are free to choose.
I can only respectfully hope as time goes by you will look at you opinions through the lense of experience and the light if Christ.
@@rodneykeller9106 “how quick you are to pass judgment” … what the???
The very foundation of Mormonism literally starts off by “quickly passing judgment” by condemning and “attacking” all other churches ... what the???
The Mormon hypocrisy is truly breathtaking … Mormonism literally calls all churches wrong.. and you are pathetically complaining about someone telling the REAL truth about Mormonism ??? When you’re own churches doctrine literally trashes all other religions?? The arrogance and hypocrisy is breathtaking …. ignorance truly is bliss for this anti-Christian.
Mormonism’s “official version” of Joseph Smith’s first vision ... (which is actually the FOURTH version of at least NINE other totally different versions of the “first vision”) ... it clearly condemns and “ATTACKS” all other churches (JSH 1:19) saying ... ALL churches are wrong, ALL their creeds are an ABOMINATION to God, and ALL their professors are CORRUPT ....
Mormonism literally “DAMNS” the whole world with MORE of their demeaning viscous and attacking Anti-Christian doctrine. Just read (1 Nephi 14:10) it literally says there are ONLY 2 churches, the church of God (Mormons) and the Church of the DEVIL (everyone else). Then it literally goes on to say, “whoso belongeth NOT to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the WHORE of all the earth!”
THEN ... while Mormons own foundational doctrine condemns all other religions.... Mormons take a play right out of Satan’s playbook using massive deception techniques...
... crying and complaining about Mormon “religious persecution” ...and telling people to “love one another” ... all the while literally persecuting the whole world with their own words and condemning doctrine... What the???
That is so horribly hypocritical, arrogant, and dismissive ... I think we are getting a hint who their real leader is ...
Christians will NEVER stop defending themselves and their Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ from the “Mormon war” on Christianity.
True Christians will defend themselves against ALL (including Mormons) who attack the TRUE Jesus Christ who is the One and Only God, creator of all the universe and savior of the world...just as we have been doing for thousands of years.
Jesus is enough
When I disagree with someone it really helps to stay away from him as far away as possible.
Is that how a plural society is formed?
This speech is not to hurt anyone but to save them from hell fire... the Lord is kind,direct, and honest
If everyone was more like dogs, this wouldn’t be an issue. Just love one another and mind your business. This is for everyone.
Woof
You mean subservient? No thank you.
That's not his job.
This is exactly what atheists want to do, reduce us down to animals.
Holland, "We have spent hours discussing what the doctrine of the church can and can not provide the individuals and families struggling over this issue [homosexuality and marriage]." Sounds so similar to the hours spent trying to figure out the "doctrine" of blacks and the priesthood ban.
Official Declaration 1 in 1890, changed plural marriage doctrine. Official Declaration 2 in 1978, changed the priesthood ban, which had denied the priesthood to members of African descent. Proclamation in 1865, corrected theories about the nature of the godhead. I found this information on the official church website, from an article in Church News, April 5, 2020. I’ve been told that these things don’t change and I want to know what the church says about proclamations changing.
Also President Jimmy Carter Threatened to Pull The Cult's Tax Exempt Status if They did Not Allow Black to Enter the Temples and Hold the Priesthood, That Alone, was the Top Contributing Factor to the Cult "Receiving Revelation" to Allow African American Folks Full Benefits of the Temple and Priesthood..Tax the Mormon Cult!!
Student: "I'm gay and God still loves me."
Holland: "We can't have this kind of divisiveness."
God loves all people in spite of their sin not because of it.
Really. What’s next? Valedictorians just spouting off their own truths? What kind of world would that be?
Lmao
This said deity may still love him, but the cult he has chosen to follow in the name of that deity does not support the life choices. Leave the religion. Find a new group of people who has similar values, if these people want to be conservative, let them! Turning the tables to force others to agree with your choices is the same as what they did to you. Find a new cult.
God does love you. There is no doubt about that. I listened to this talk and I am not LDS but I think that people are not understanding what he is saying. He asks people not to parade, flag wave, or speak about their sexual preferences and political agendas at their schoo graduationl. I cannot speak about Jesus, abortion, or any personal preference at any liberal school. I really do not think for 2 seconds that this has anything to do with hate. Quit being a victim and stand for what you are. There is no shame in that but to go to someone else's religious school and try to uproot their personal teachings or believes within their walls is an attack on them. If you all want to be respected then have respect for those who do not agree with your opinions as well and quit attacking their faith or ideas on marriage ect.
it's unique academic mission- to avoid logic and critical thought.
It's the Mormon way.
@@koseighty8579 it’s liberal way
Logic and critical thought?? 🤣😂 you think identity politics are logical and require critical thought?!? That’s hilarious 😆
I smile when my TBM family say BYU is a WORLD CLASS university. In the real world it’s seen as a Bible school like Oral Roberts or Liberty. This speech sums up exactly why. We can’t have people THINKING.
@@annaceleste2073 There’s nothing political about your identity. What a moronic thing to say.
Musket fire? Violence? Noise? Attack/defend language, alternating from dominance to crying on cue(maybe I'm reading it wrong, but he seemed to half-cry after he said he was crying. My bad if I'm misinterpreting).
Please get aquatinted with Jesus. Please! You know, the one who prayed for his murderers while being tortured to death, the one who defied the religious elite while living the truest commands of God - the God he knew so much better than the religious elite did. No use looking down on Pharisees, they were AMAZING people! They were of the highest caliber. If they can miss the true value of Jesus then anyone can - especially the religious, powerful, honored, dedicated, intelligent elite.
This is just manipulation through emotion and fear for those that aren’t entirely in his box of beliefs.
“Get back in here! Can’t you see you’re making me, an Apostle, cry!? Can’t you see that people are out there disagreeing with me! It’s mean and makes me sad! Don’t forget who holds the purse strings to your job, professors. All I’m asking is that you deny your conscience and do what I say. Stop making this so difficult for me! Now get out there and defend my bigotry that we’ll low key drop a gospel topics essay on in a couple decades that explains that what I’m saying isn’t actually what I’m saying. Do it or you don’t love Jesus.”
very much indeed, if you watch the whole speech, he relies heavily on sentimentalism right from the start in order to condition the audience to feel more emotional. Any rational being can see the manipulation right through it.
No bigotry, BYU is different, gets no government funding. I have a friend who went there.They should be able to do what they want. All the hate seems to be those commenting on this video.
Yeah it's like he shoots at the gay community, stands there watching them bleed and says "please stop crying, it hurts to hear you cry".
@@KitKat-gw4rh it’s like he’s shooting the gay community??? Please explain??? He is talking at a church school about the church standards that they believe… Instead of people choosing to go elsewhere to stay (because NO ONE is forcing anyone to go to BYU) they are trying to get BYU to teach things that are direct opposite of their doctrines… the stupidity y’all have is killing me!!!
@@sionel2604 I used to think like you
I think we need to be "stone catchers" and not stone throwers and be careful and review history of ancient prophets and when they taught things that the people didn't agree with, they would stone them. Well how is this any different? I have friends, co-workers, and family that experience same same sex attraction, I love them and respect them. If someone watching Elder Hollands message doesn't agree with it, how does sending hurtful comments make things better? Hate, bigotry, prejudice, racism it all comes from the same place and never does anyone any good. So, if you don't agree with Elder Holland's message I respect your rights to your opinions and objections, but let's remember what the Savior Jesus Christ taught "Love one another as I have loved you". Love doesn't mean changing God's outlook on his commandments. I can't even begin to comprehend the complexity involved in the creation of all of it. We are all unique and have our agency to choose and believe and say what we want, but if we can learn to express our feelings and still come together as brothers and sisters then we can accomplish a whole lot more than I can on my own. Just my thoughts.
amen brother
He is literally the guy issuing a call to arms against those who are supporters of inclusiveness, yet has the audacity to weep as he says that he's anxious to have weapons become plows and for peace to prevail.
"A little scar tissue of our own.." I'm sure that the lengthy conversations about this really hurt you gents more than the .. What did you call them? "Same-sex-challenged?"
Sounds like stepping into yourself and being authentic seems a bit more progressive rather than those of you who are.. "Religiously-filtered-challenged"
Agreed. They're treating the issue like a disability. Now we can add ableist to the list alongside racist, homophobic, and transphobic.
I came here because of R/Exmormon. I am exmormon and I was interrested in hearing what the fuss was about. That followers of that subreddit stated that Holland was suggesting violence against LGBTQIA+. After hearing this, this was simply not the case. His argument was in defense of his beliefs not the physical assualt on people. I left the church, but I cannot condone such irrational behavior. If you are gay, you may as well leave the church, because its mission is to keep being the same. Leave it alone. Continue to love and live in your own way as this type of belief is not conducive of your well-being.
The internet tends to bend and manipulate things. That's just how this works. I came here for the same reason, lots of people talking about this and all the fuss that it's causing. Honestly, I think a good majority of people are taking this all out of context than what he was actually saying.
Just love every one, and not judge. It's that simple.
Jesus never commanded anyone to not be gay. He did command people to not judge and love one another. The real problem here is that we are acting like it's immoral to be how people are biologically built. The word "musket fire" infers hostility where none is needed. In fact, that mentality is the polar opposite of what Christ taught. These suicidal rates for LGBTQ have skyrocketed in Utah in recent years. This type of speech encourages people to shun, mistreat and shame people because of how they are biologically wired. We don't need more "musket fire". These people need more love and acceptance. As leaders, we have to be careful to use our words cautiously because people's tribal mentality can be very abusive.
Mathew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.
Any time we use speech that will encourage people to break the greatest commandment, to love one another, then we are failing at our greatest responsibility. This woman's letter about being bothered by rainbow flags and professors being loving and accepting is not paramount, the LGBTQ teens that are killing themselves are.
"Youth suicide rates have tripled in Utah since 2007, according to the most recent data available from the Utah Department of Health. The problem is so severe that Republican Gov. Gary Herbert spearheaded a task force to combat the issue.
LGBTQ youth are almost five times as likely to attempt suicide compared to their heterosexual and cisgender peers, according to the Trevor Project, a national organization providing crisis intervention and suicide prevention services to LGBTQ youth."
We need a talk about an increase of love, compassion, and acceptance toward these youth who are feeling hopeless and alone. We don't need a call for more "musket fire" from teachers and students condemning youth instead of loving them.
John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
This scripture could easily read, "He that is without sin among you, let him first shoot his proverbial, verbal mucket at the LGBT community."
Luke 17:2 It was better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Make no mistake this will encourage parents, students, and staff to treat people poorly for something they have no control over. It was a poor choice of words. We have already seen horrendous examples on social media of people "supporting their apostle."
We should be focused on preventing suicides not breeding intolerance and hate with combative speech. I don't believe it was Elder Hollands' intent to increase LGBT suicide, but this inevitably will contribute to behavior that leads to more suicide in our community.
Thanks for this insightful, kind commentary.
Thanks for taking the time to write this insightful, and I believe, inspired comment.
I agree that it was unlikely Elder Holland's intent, and it is why I am so puzzled by this speech. It seems out of character for him.
You state something here that is crucial about his intent: it doesn't matter, because it will "contribute to behavior that leads to more suicide in our community." I wished people could understand that we have to do better than good intentions. We have to show up for LGBTQ+ people, immediately say were sorry when we do something that is insensitive, and keep trying to understand them and give them the dignity any human being deserves.
Seriously? Explain Genesis 19 to me then.
@@johnperry1645 I can explain it. It’s not real. Sure someone somewhere wrote the book, but it’s just a story. It’s holds as much weight as Aesop’s fables or Mother Gooses nursery rhymes.
This talk was definitely a threat to the faculty at BYU who support LGBT students
You think? It was not about LGBTQ students. It is about a broader issue of social justice, CRT, and postmodernism and its irrelevance to course subject matter. The faculty are teaching material contrary to church teachings. This has been going on for a few years now.
Threat to those who support LGBT students, or those who support LGBT ideology? Big difference between the two.
We live in a world that tries to make the argument "If you care about me, you'll support my beliefs and tell me I don't need to change." That's kind of the opposite message of Christ, who is all about us surrendering ourselves to him and changing our beliefs and our actions.
@@jandjhirst No, there really isn't a big difference between those two things. Besides, LGBT isn't an ideology. It's an immutable part of some people, and not something they should be shamed for or have to hide. That's no "If you care about me, you'll support my beliefs and tell me I don't need to change." it is "If you care about me, you'll stop trying to change things that can't be changed, and accept me as I am."
@@jandjhirst 1)This is not about ideas or "ideology", this is about humans, having the opportunity to live according to the dictates of their own conscience without harming others.
2) I think you are making a false equivalence fallacy. Disagreeing over your favorite football team is not the same as disagreeing over innate and immutable human characteristics. Does Christ ask women to subordinate to men, black people to be white, gay people to be straight or transgender people to live inauthentic lives? No...But I do have it on information and belief, that Christ does however, favor the St. Louise Cardinals.
3) I frequently define love as: "The degree you are willing to serve, protect, and validate a person place or thing." The antitheses is to withhold service, to withhold protection, and to withhold validation. Based on that definition, is Elder Holland promoting love for HOMOSEXUALS or its antitheses?
@@TenthWardJenny You can define love however you want, but you can't define it for other people. Everyone gets to love however they want. As a parent, you learn that loving your children doesn't mean giving them what they want, but teaching them to want what will make them happy. Admittedly, we probably disagree on what it means to "love."
This is not about freedom. The church having a stance on what conduct is immoral has no power to take away someone's freedom. Membership in the church is completely voluntary, we aren't talking about government laws. It's only when the authority of the church is coupled with the power of the state that it becomes an issue of freedom.
8:10 why spend hours trying to figure this out when they can just ask Jesus next time they see him in person?
YESS
Why not just pray to sky daddy
Because that isn't how it works. They probably spent hours and hours praying, but it's not that God is just gonna come down from the heavens and tell them exactly what to do. That is not what happens.
@@maddzz22 That is exactly what happens. That's what supposedly happened to JS. Why cant god wake up nelson in the middle of the night to write it down, as he's done before?
@@advocate7643 Joseph smith was an extreme example, and in a world where literally NOBODY was a part of this church, he couldn’t just have a “feeling” to do something because he had not been taught of revelation before. God NEEDED to come to him in order for the church to surely be built. And now, in today’s day and age, now that all of the church has been known for years, we understand how to receive revelation from him. Yes, he technically COULD come to us and tell us exactly what to do, but that defeats the whole purpose of the reason we were placed in this world. We have to choose for ourselves what we want, not be told everything without having to make any choices.
If you get offended here is why
1 Nephi 16:2
And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.
@Tyler G We are all trying to find someone to blame and that makes no sense. I did not see any attacks, neither from Elder Holland nor from Matt Easton. The issue is very simple. Matt Easton he wanted to make a statement, he wanted his message to reach to as many people as possible. In Matt Easton`s eyes, his message is a very big issue and he believes he can help lots of people and he wanted to use that space to accomplish that! He has dealt with his homossexuality all his life, he has seen people take their lives and that is very sad. He was open about it and apparently got all the approvals from deans and etc that he needed, so no issues there. On the other hand we have an institution that also is not hiding from anyone that homosexuality is not acceptable. The church is so open and clear on it`s stance about homossexual behavior. The honor code at BYU does not accept it, students sign and agree with the honor code. They have a choice to go to thousands of other instituations, but yet they for whatever reason chosse to sign the paper. The homossexual behavior goes against everything the church doctrine and institution stands for. Elder Holland he is the leader of this institution. BYU is an extension of this institution. What I understood from Elder Holland is that BYU`s pulpit will not be used to carry on an agenda that is contrary to what the Church stands for. BYU nor the church will be used as a venue for people to carry on their own beliefs. There is no such thing as a Gay son of God nor a Straight son of God. In the church there is only place for the children of God. Sexual orientation is not to be used as a way to divide individuals. The only titles approved are: Either you are a Son, or you are a Daughter of God. For me the conversation we are having it boils down to that. If people want to carry on discussions on rainbow day, gay parade, gay son of God or whatever else..that is totally fine, but BYU`s pulpit is not gonna be the venue for that. There are millions of other places that can and should take place. Its all about respect. Respect each other`s beliefs, respect each other`s space. BYU is not a public place, its a private place and the owners determine the rules. In the public space, the majority determines what is acceptable or not.
Beautiful
So if LDS get offended at being told they are in a cult, would the same scripture apply?
So if LDS get offended at being told they are in a cult, would the same scripture apply?
To all you calling it the Mormon church, it is The Church of Jesus Christ. If you want to attack the Lords church, that is your right. But at least attack it properly, and do not hide your attacks against Christ behind a false name.
M.O.R.M.O.N.
Stand firm on the scripture and Christ, not the opinions of man.
are you the boss of monsters inc?
Hey don’t do monsters inc dirty like that
Omfg 😂😂😂😂
if you don't like the church and it's teachings then leave us alone
@@AhsokaTano1999 the missionaries should leave people alone. I’m just sharing what I believe to be true the same way they are.
If you don’t like my comment maybe you should follow your own advice and leave me alone
@@getharryonsax Like all religions Missionaries have the right to go and preach to everyone 1st Amendment right. Like I said if you don't like the missionaries just ignore them and go on your day and tell them politely that your not interested. IF you are telling me to leave you alone then why are you commenting on religious videos in the first place? If you want to avoid religion then don't comment on any religious videos and go on your merry day plain and simple dude.
And to think I was raised to basically worship this man. This man that is disgusted by my ability to love something about myself that I can’t even control. Loving and accepting it is all I CAN do. I can’t decide not to be gay. I would still be gay if I hated it about myself. To think that I once looked up to this man, and my own father still does. I know my dad loves me but his idolization towards this person is something I can’t just ignore, or learn to accept. I’m gay, and no amount of family members, heavenly or earthly, will change that. Because I can’t change that. I’m not gonna change. I don’t want to. I don’t want to be shaped and molded by people who are disgusted by me. People who want me to follow them, not myself. Elder Holland doesn’t want me to be happy, he wants me to be him.
I don't believe that is true. I think his point was literally opposite of what you just said. To love everyone, have empathy for their struggles or understanding for their choices that you might not fully understand or agree with.
You don't need to be changed, you shouldn't change for a religion. But you also shouldn't ask a religion, or those who agree with its teachings, to change for you. You should simply be asking for those who choose to follow its teachings to still treat you kindly, let you live as you choose and accept the path you decide to take as you should for them.
If you listened well, you heard someone say, They don't believe the "nuclear family" should be made to fall from the pedestal they place it on. It is what they believe in, it is how they feel and no one will ever change that. But to be kind and gracious to those who see the world differently. Then maybe you would give your dad a little credit... unless he doesn't actually listen to what this speaker has to say and is hateful toward you. But, that is on your dad, not the speaker.
@@KrystalessR Ignorance is bliss for you .. isn’t it ? So so sad … yet so revealing!
@@lightwalker2655 I'm not ignorant to anything. I wanted to have sex before marriage and felt no desire to be shamed for it. Or have to go confess something to my Bishop only to be judged over it. So, I left. It is actually a simple solutuon. Leave.
@@KrystalessR sorry .. I misread your message.. we are in complete agreement! 🌴🤙
I would imagine this is how Heavenly Father would counsel us, His sons & daughters, all of us (including me) here in this journey back to our heavenly home. "He wept." "He chastise those that He Loves." Time and time again His arms of Grace and Mercy are stretched out still. We Love you and you have our Support, we stand with you for time and all Eternity Elder Holland. Thank you for standing Strong and Courageous, with much Love from the land across the sea 🇦🇺 Looking foward to October's General Conference. Jesus is the Christ, He Lives❣ I have experienced His Pure Love and I cannot deny Him. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ in Him only will I worship & honor all the days of my life. 🙏🙏🙏
Uhhhh....
Ignorance is bliss for you .. isn’t it ? So so sad … yet so revealing!
@@lightwalker2655whoever you are, you don't know what my background and the journey that I'm on and I don't know you personally, why you being like this? I've been a follower of Christ for almost 20 years from a buddhist background, served a mission, I'm a nurse, a daughter, an aunt, a wife, a mother and have had many wonderful and challenging experiences and will continue to do so. People like you make me believe in Christ so much more than ever! He Lives! Hope and pray for you that your heart will be soften and you'll see the hand of God in the details of your life, in every breath, every heartbeat, without Him you would not exist. May the grace, mercy, peace and Love of Christ be upon you. Whatever you're going through, I hope you know, that you also are a Child of God, and He Loves you, think about that. If you need help, I'm more than happy to assist in anyway.
@@faithhopelove122 wow … it so sad to witness the Mormon deception upon good people … so so sad indeed.
The Mormon leaders teach you and the whole world about a totally different false jesus and false god.
Anyone that is actually honest with themselves and with God can clearly and plainly see the obvious difference between the True “One and Only God” Jesus Christ, taught by Gods Own Words in the Bible - and the false Mormon gods taught by the Mormon leaders.
Unfortunately, The Actual Fact Is, the Mormon god does not exist...
The Mormon god once was a mortal man, lives near a star called kolob, likely has many many wives that bare billions of his children, and is the literal father of Satan, and the Mormon god “ironically” teaches Mormons can become gods EXACTLY like Satan desires to be a god! Mormonism literally worships a false god.
As Aposed to The True and Living Jesus Christ who is literally The One and Only God, creator of the universe and savior of the world! True Christians follow the one and ONLY Lord, God and savior Jesus Christ... not the false Mormon christ who is Satan’s bother.
In other words.. the Mormon god and the Mormon jesus literally do not exist. And the Mormon leaders have deceived most their followers into believing the false Mormon Christ is the same Jesus as the True Christian GOD, Jesus Christ....
The Mormon false prophets KNOW “full well” the Mormon Christ they teach and preach about is not - AT ALL - the same as the ONE and ONLY True and Living God Jesus Christ....
The Mormon leaders are unfortunately lying with horrible manipulation and KNOW full well they are deceiving their members. The Mormon leaders fulfill scripture right before your very eyes.
Gal 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel (Moroni) from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man (Joseph Smith) preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Matt 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs (brother of Satan), and false prophets (Mormon leaders), and shall shew great signs and wonders (book of Mormon); insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect (you).
You have been taught to speak as though the Mormon jesus is the same True Christian Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ - and yet Mormonism literally teaches Jesus and his Atoning sacrifice on the cross ALONE Is NOT enough to save mankind. Mormonism teaches you MUST pay the Mormon church - in order to enter the Mormon temple - in order to receive “saving ordinances” - in order to be “saved” in the highest Mormon heaven. Then “maybe” the Mormon jesus will save them … maybe.
To teach this false doctrine is literally teaching Jesus is NOT enough to save you. Mormonism literally teaches YOU MUST do all these other things… and even then still - Mormons never “know” if they have done “enough” to be saved.
Mormonism literally takes down the cross of Jesus and hides it away - then puts up a giant “man angel” on top their temples.
Then the Mormon leaders deceptively steal the name of our Lord God Jesus Christ and place it in the name of their church - and AGAIN - “deceive the elect with great signs and wonders” (Matt 24:24). The deception is clearly revealed!
The Mormon leaders teach, not only was their Mormon god once a mortal man, but his father and grandfather - on and on - were all once mortal men too (polytheism - endless gods). The Mormon leaders also teach they too can become a god EXACTLY like Satan desires to become a god! The deception is clearly revealed!
And yet Mormons continuously ignore or attempt to excuse away the absolute inexcusable facts - The Mormon leaders are documented, verified and proven liars of Mormon history, doctrines and finances… they are proven LIARS and deceivers…
… And Sadly Mormonism acts exactly like the ancient Israelites- as God has revealed in these last days the FULL truth of Mormonism’s lies and manipulation… it is literally like God sending mana from heaven, and Mormons refuse to eat, or Moses and his serpent staff, and Mormons refuse to look!
So so sad, yet so so revealing.
We truly pray the God will give you and all Mormons “eyes to see” and “ears to hear” the true gospel of Jesus Christ filled with unconditional love and grace. We pray in HIS name Jesus Christ, amen 🙏
Jesus is enough ❤️😇✝️🙏
This whole talk is just "this hurts me more than it hurts you" as he tries to strip students of their individuality
And justifies the LGBT suicide epidemic extremely prevalent in the church
Who exactly is he suggesting that the BYU faculty should point these guns at? Is he seriously using the metaphor of shooting gay people?!!!
I no longer believe in the church but there is no need to fall on your fainting couch with the musket metaphor. Do you have the same level of offense when the San Francisco Gay Choir sang that song "We're coming for your children"?
LGBT can't laugh off that song as "sarcasm" but then act like Holland literally wants to shoot gay people. That is dishonest and diminishes the credibility of pro LGBT people.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 true.
That’s why I will never send one of my kids to BYU.
Edi wag engot
@@arveesantos3719 sorry I don’t understand gibberish
Great! It’s a free country so you can send your kids where you feel is best!!!
Good. They don’t need you at BYU. It’s a choice.
Christ’s two greatest commandments were love God and love your neighbor. Not "increase the musket fire" towards the LGBQT community…….
Yeah, I think he could benefit from reading the synoptic gospels, to meet the Jesus who lived in poverty and actually loved the oppressed.
He literally said that Jesus hasn’t withheld his love from anyone, but with that being said, Jesus never said anyone was exempt from His commandments because of His love… stop picking and choosing what you want from his talk…
@@sionel2604 Jesus never commanded anyone to not be gay. He did command people to not judge and love one another. The real problem here is that we are acting like it's immoral to be how people are biologically built. The word "musket fire" infers hostility where none is needed. In fact, that mentality is the polar opposite of what Christ taught. These suicidal rates for LGBTQ have skyrocketed in Utah in recent years. This type of speech encourages people to shun, mistreat and shame people because of how they are biologically wired. We don't need more "musket fire". These people need more love and acceptance. As leaders, we have to be careful to use our words cautiously because people's tribal mentality can be very abusive.
Mathew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.
Any time we use speech that will encourage people to break the greatest commandment, to love one another, then we are failing at our greatest responsibility. This woman's letter about being bothered by rainbow flags and professors being loving and accepting is not paramount. The LGBTQ teens that are killing themselves are.
"Youth suicide rates have tripled in Utah since 2007, according to the most recent data available from the Utah Department of Health. The problem is so severe that Republican Gov. Gary Herbert spearheaded a task force to combat the issue.
LGBTQ youth are almost five times as likely to attempt suicide compared to their heterosexual and cisgender peers, according to the Trevor Project, a national organization providing crisis intervention and suicide prevention services to LGBTQ youth."
We need a talk about an increase of love, compassion, and acceptance toward these youth who are feeling hopeless and alone. We don't need a call for more "musket fire" from teachers and students condemning youth instead of loving them.
John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
This scripture could easily read, "He that is without sin among you, let him first shoot his proverbial, verbal mucket at the LGBT community."
Luke 17:2 It was better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Make no mistake this will encourage parents, students, and staff to treat people poorly for something they have no control over. It was a poor choice of words. We have already seen horrendous examples on social media of people "supporting their apostle." We should be focused on preventing suicides not breeding intolerance and hate with combative speech. I don't believe it was Elder Hollands' intent to increase LGBT suicide, but this inevitably will contribute to behavior that leads to more suicide in our community.
@@sionel2604 We don't have Jesus saying a lot of things. For instance, Jesus never said same sex marriages were not ok. I think we're better off paying attention to what Jesus actually said and how he treated people - especially the outcast and suffering. He indeed put love of others as self right up there with loving God. This is above all other commandments because it's so easy to bully others with lists of commands - criteria on which people must conform to be a acceptable. The Pharisees are famous for ridiculing Jesus for accepting those the Pharisees deemed unacceptable. Pharisees would readily agree that we better be careful not to be so kind to the outcast that it looks like we're condoning them. Jesus was very different. Did he overindulge people? No. Actually, if we've ever lusted or called someone a fool were in trouble with Jesus. But his love came first, his acceptance and compassion came first - before others conformed. He inspired and showed people by example what was good. He was not a religious authority type like the Pharisees. The synoptic Gospels are gold. I love them for helping me understand the character of Jesus. And I do believe that is the best place to look for the best reflection of the true God. Religious authorities are helpful in various ways, but they don't understand the merciful, healing God as well as Jesus did.
@@leem3299 well said.
Jesus never gave any commandments regarding same sex relationships or marriage.
No but the Bible does prohibit homosexual behaviour in 27 parts of the scriptures.
@@scottbrandon9390 Holland specifically talks about Jesus’ commandments. Jesus didn’t write the Bible, and he doesn’t talk to the LDS Church’s so-called apostles. Jesus’ whole point was to free the people from the Pharisaical law, and the LDS apostles are just modern day Pharisees, false prophets, wolves in sheep’s clothing.
A church/cult with 100 + history of polygamy, child molestation and racism does not hold moral high ground. Furthermore, it is ridiculous that the church’s university system is named after a man who molested children, liar, racist, murder accomplice and unequivocally stated men live on the sun and the moon.
@@joek2364 good points
@@scottbrandon9390 true
Back in the mid '80s I approached BYU's Administration about their policy against beards. Their answer was clear and unambiguous. Our donors want a university free of beards. They like the look of a clean shaven university so that is what they will get.
Forty years later, nothing has changed. It's all about the cash flow coming in. As such, defenders of LBGT issues will not have a voice at BYU until this type of donor dies off.
Since day one Mormonism has been about money and cash flow. We can't expect the Q15 to all of a sudden abandon that value system.
@Ganda Propa Jr The fruits you speak are not the source of Holland's talk.
@Ganda Propa Jr You completely miss the point. The Q15 are choosing donations over the fruits.
Kent Thalman: Brigham Young had a beard!
@Ganda Propa Jr You do know that the Church has acknowledged that same sex attraction is biological. Right?
@Ganda Propa Jr Once you learn that SSA has a biological foundation, the discussion is changed. People need intimacy, both emotionally and physically. Recognizing the biological foundation of SSA, then stating they can't live emotionally fulfilling lives isn't Christlike. Rather, it's quite harmful.
I highly doubt the graduate quoted actually described her faith journey as a “radicalization of my attitudes and the destruction of my faith.” Lyin’ Jeff strikes again!
And that it was the result of something a BYU professor said. 🙄
Why are you crying? Now I am envious that you seem to enjoy a comfortable happy life. Being a president of BYU for some time. Probably I would have enjoyed that too, if I was born to opportunity. Can’t blame you Elder Holland. But here sits an older version of me years latter. I once felt inspired to meet the Nurse administration of BYU, perhaps in the 90,s. I was so convincing she was willing to admit me even though my academic grades were lacking. If you’d allow it. My request for admission not even considered. And rejected was a hard loss coming from a poor Mormon family from NC. I have been a LVN /LPN for 40 years. I was a hospital acute care nurse for 30 or so years in Nc & TX where the scope of practice was expanded per BON and Institutional policies. The institutions taught me IV therapy. I could push my own IV drugs to my set of patients assigned to me including drawing labs of of central lines. I even moonlighted at Duke Hospital through agency work. I was taught very well. You would have wanted me to be your nurse. I know Hospital like the back of my hand. But I’m aged almost to retirement age with no retirement to fall back on and no family support. If I were a RN I’d make it least 30,000 more a year than I do now. I EVEN TOOK CARE OF RUSSLE NELSONS PATIENTS ON THE STEP DOWN UNIT IN THE EARLY 80 s at LDS HOSPITAL. Although in Utah prohibits me as an LPN to perform IV push medications. This might help jog your memory. I was so disappointed I wrote BYU an irrational letter expressing my disappointment. Could you have not mustered anymore compassion or understanding? You barred my admittance permanently for undergraduate studies at BYU. So forgive me Elder Holland if I feel no compassion for your tears on Utube talks.
Perhaps I wouldn’t have made it at that time in school. But at the same time you didn’t know my potential. That I don’t have the license to Match my skills like the RN.
I’m sure this message will never be recognized
Also, I love when people hide behind the fact that homophobia is part of their beliefs, once upon a time BYU didn’t allow black people in either, you wouldn’t find it socially acceptable for them to do so now and it’s not socially acceptable to discriminate against homosexuals. This is a school that receives public funding.
Notice the pain that Holland feels from a donor's letter, yet somehow doesn't understand the pain of the LGBT vulnerable.
Underrated comment!
He’s basically saying the school is more important than the people attending it. 😞
Actually I think he’s saying truth is more important than hurting peoples feelings. It’s a religious school, of course they’re going to teach their religious doctrine.
Well he is saying teaching the truth is more important than peoples feelings. They are a private school they can enforce their rules and teach the doctrine of Jesus Christ. If teachers and students are not following it, there are consequences
Just love everyone. Period.
Luke 14:26
Basically, love God and not "everyone" :) LGBT is too much about pride and about self love. That only leads to Matthew 7:23.
He starts with "Imagine the pain...." Imagine the pain when loved ones get the news someone they loved in the Utah or BYU community killed themselves. Because they were gay.
I don’t see how this would be Utah or BYU’s fault…
@@sionel2604 How did you get that from my comment? It's common knowledge among the exmormons Utah has a very high suicide rate among LGBT. Messages like this, either from leaders or clearly average members themselves, as noted in the letter he read, contribute to the culture that is not accepting and even ready to fight those who stand up for equality. But, now that you mention it, yeah it is kind of their fault if this is the culture in Provo and the rest of Utah. Point is, high suicide rates there definitely correlate with message like this and how members handle it in the Utah and Provo communities. There's a commenter on here that admitted but regrets now during his time in BYU decades ago he gave his gay roommate a hard time.
@@imoutbye sorry you need to clarify this, how did Utah or BYU create a culture that has contributed to the high suicide rates?? You mentioned that commenter who said he treated his BYU roommate bad.. when had BYU EVER tell its students to treat gay people bad??? What policy encourages that??? You cannot blame the actions of individuals (who take it upon themselves to treat gay people badly) on the church because the church does not encourage that behavior… BYU also has a policy that students cannot drink, smoke, or have prematerial sex… Has that contributed to the high suicide rate???
Homosexuality goes against the fundamental beliefs of the Lds church. Are gay students forced to go to BYU??? Are gay students forced to be apart of the LDS religion??? Because the LDS has doctrine beliefs and they conflict with others and their personal beliefs, the LDS church is responsible for what these individuals do??? Please make it make sense…
@@sionel2604 Mormons are not as accepting as you'd like to believe. When you got to high school where almost everyone is mormon, how do you fit in when you're gay? I'm reading that people who were not mormon had a hard time being accepted in Utah high school. No doubt that mentality transfers to college, at least for a little while. If your gay, it's an abonimation, and doesn't align with the family proclomation. Just like in this moms letter, I can imagine if that parents kid made friends with someone who is openly gay they'd probably discourage them from hanging out with them. Hanging it and friendships is not something the church makes happen. It's not a commandment. That happens outside of church. And if you struggle to find your place in friendship circles, you become isolated, you will hate yourself. I have plenty of fmaily in Utah. My aunt and uncle have confirmed to me, that this shit is a part of chte culture. IN fact they use it as part of defence for the chruch cause we've had this debate. They say it's not the church, it's the culture here. From expereince and these conversations, that's my source.
@@sionel2604 ignorance is bliss for you … isn’t it? So sad. Yet so revealing!
9:50 according to one of the old missionaries at my ward was when people started leaving. The missionary is home now and going to BYU and he was there. Notice how quickly he changed his tone when he saw people disagreeing with him and leaving.
There's other colleges. We don't need to be like everyone else.
Keep saying that. Soon no one will be at BYU and the school will collapse.
@@elliefuller3667 untrue.
@@Shawnbfromsd Mormonism has more people leaving than joining. That's why they've been pushing for more kids and suddenly changing their old teachings about LGBT people. God forbid you aren't married and having kids right after your mission.
They're losing money and its hurting them. He literally talks about how they're losing donations. The whole church is a grift and they need to change or fall apart.
@@But...WhyTho They will either crack down and lose a hell of a lot more members due to anti-LGBT sentiments, or they will wait it out and change, saying that the church does support them, the same way they conveniently gave black people the priesthood in the 70’s, right after the Civil Rights Movement 😂 I am curious if they will have a full crackdown against the LGBTQ Community and support for it in the church, they are so adamant about marriage being man and woman so their racism seems to be outshined by their homophobia. At this point, I hope they do, it will be a sign to any LGBTQ members they are NOT welcome and they will leave to find a better place, and it will signal the decline of the church, as the world becomes supportive of other humans just fucking existing, the church stays solidly cemented into the past, and they lose more and more members, and they’re at an all time low for gaining more members. What kind of progressive, kind human being would join the Mormon cult? If they’ve accepted and supported the LGBTQ community, they will not join. They’ll see straight through the church’s smoke and mirrors. Once that happens, the church is gone for good, reduced to a minuscule dot. That would be the best case scenario.
This ☝️right here 👆 this yes! There's such a culture that you have to go to a BYU to be a good mormon college student. But that's not true! If BYU wants to be exclusive and lack diversity, let them.
Elder Holland is an Apostle, but he is also a human.
However his intent in this talk was true. Some of you see him as a lier, inconsiderate, encouraging violence, and ultimately unloving.
And that is ABSOLUTELY not true. He is kind, loving, considerate and wise. A man, but also an Apostle of the Lord.
@@jamesoneil1388 obviously your thinking of some kind of fantastical Oracle... the Apostles and Prophets were not such.
Think of the Apostles of old... if they could “see the future” why did they ask Christ so many questions about the future? Such as when Christ said there would be one who would betray Him...
“And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?”
Or Jonah and the whale or Moses...
The truth is... they see what God allows them to see. They have no power. They have authority from God. And the power is God’s.
They are human. with a great mantle, a responsibility.
The “seeing of the future” can be literal, but often it is in feeling.
As all who have faith in Christ, which the Apostles and Prophets are witnesses of Him, they look forward with an eye of faith.
So that’s why...
because this isn’t mans church. It is the Lord’s.
@@igoldenknight2169 ignorance is bliss for you .. isn’t it? So sad yet so revealing!
@@lightwalker2655 I’m actually well informed and aware. I don’t believe that “ignorance is bliss”. And what does that reveal exactly?
@@igoldenknight2169 oh my my .. ignorance REALLY IS BLISS for this poor soul …
The Mormon jesus LITERALLY does not exist … neither does the Mormon god.
The Mormon god once was a “created” mortal man, now lives on a star called kolob, likely has many many wives that bare billions of his children, and is the literal father of Satan, AND the Mormon god “ironically” teaches Mormons can become gods exactly like Satan desires to be a god.
The Mormon god is a created, COMPLETELY UNBIBLICAL, polytheistic (multiple - endless - gods) polygamist, FALSE god.
Christians do not believe in the same god or gospel as Mormons in any way shape or form. Christians believe in The One and Only True God Jesus Christ found in the Bible.
Mormonism literally worships false gods.
As Aposed to The True and Living Jesus Christ who is literally The One and Only God, creator of the universe and savior of the world! True Christians follow the one and ONLY Lord, God and savior Jesus Christ... not the false Mormon christ who is Satan’s bother.
The deception is clearly revealed.
If the false Mormon prophets were actually honest they would name their church an honest name. The most honest name of the Mormon church is
The Church of
S A T A N S B R O T H E R
of Latter-Day Satan’s Brothers
and Sisters
That way the whole world would know the false “entity” that Mormons believe in. Also, that name would not offend ANY Mormon because it is in perfect harmony with Mormon doctrine.
We all now know - full well - the false Mormon prophets (past and present) are literally documented, verified and proven whitewashers, deceivers and outright liars of Mormon history, doctrines and finances. They are literal proven liars. Even the false Mormon prophets are now attempting to explain away - on their very own web site - many historical facts that were previously called “anti-Mormon lies” - now the Mormon leaders are admitting that they are actually not lies, but actual true historical facts. Although much of their explanations are still whitewashed and full of flowery manipulation … why?? Because the False Mormon Prophets are literally “fearful liars” Revelations 21:8.
Not telling the full truth - covering up - whitewashing - are ALL forms of deception, manipulation, and straight up lying!!
Again…. The Mormon leaders are literally documented, verified and proven liars period … we all clearly know this.
ANYONE actually honest with themselves and with God knows, Jesus Christ would never tell his “only true church” to whitewash, cover up, deceive and outright lie about its own history, finances and doctrines.
That one fact alone proves Mormonism is a total false gospel.
I truly pray that God will give you, and all Mormons, “eyes to see” and “ears to hear” the true gospel of Jesus Christ filled with unconditional love and grace. We pray in HIS name Jesus Christ, amen 🙏
Jesus is enough ❤️😇✝️🙏
@@lightwalker2655 at least you believe in Jesus Christ! I hope you never lose that faith. I’m glad we have that in common.
I find it interesting that those who share your feelings always focus on how Christ and Satan are brothers, but never say that comes from the fact that we are all family. God’s family.
Disappointing that your comment has nothing to do with mine, other than you think lds church leaders are liars. Which they aren’t.
Yes I also pray in His name…
Because of Him I know I will live again and have peace and happiness. That I can be forgiven of my sins.
🙏🏽💛
Crocodile tears can turn to pulpit thumping rage in the twinkling of an eye. This man is the personification of emotional manipulation.
God will be the judge of that.
One thing I know for sure... When he speaks he is representing as if he were God. When you stand against him you do the same to our Lord. And that's the truth.
He's just another stuffed shirt.
...as you make comments looking to persuade others to believe your shallow comment about another's weaknesses. Yeah, he is the manipulator...🤦♂️
@@gabegoldweight1854 This is staged emotion for effect.
I didn’t find anything wrong with his talk. I feel he spoke with
love.
divisive love more like it. This is conditional love not God's love. Victimizing another is anathema to God.
I don’t understand why HE is the one shedding tears. The lgbtq community are the ones being hurt so terribly in this situation and are looked down upon, shunned, rejected, and bullied by the leaders of this church. These so called “prophets of god” need to stop acting like they’re the victims in this situation. SMH
What is wrong with you going to another school???
In Violent analogies and minorities, you can get people to do horrible things without directly telling them to do so, this speech is an example
As a trans woman pushed to the edge of suicide in fear of being disowned by her family due to this kind of dogma, I am disgusted.
Doing his usual verge of emotional break down, to keeping his composure. It’s an act.
Not sure it is. I think whenever a donor writes the Q15 and tells them they're done sending in money a little tear is shed.
@@KTPurdy You pointed out something interesting. This is just another flavor of the act those evangelist pastors put on. Less intense and more manageable to watch. A little more believable, unless you really pay attention.
Everyone’s worked up because he basically says “we should love those of the LGBT community, but that doesn’t mean the teachings of the church change”. Like c’mon people, demonizing a church because they don’t bow down to the societal pressures of today’s world? I know very personally people from the LGBT community, and I love them and respect them. That does not mean I support it. It’s completely possible to appreciate and love someone but not let how they choose to live, force you into living/thinking a certain way.
Thank you. Well said.
You cannot love someone and refuse to support an unchangeable part of their identity. We DO NOT choose to live the “gay lifestyle” (whatever the hell that means). We are gay, or lesbian, or bisexual, and so on. Period. You cannot remove a part of our IDENTITY from us. You cannot pick and choose. You either love and support ALL of us, or NONE of us. Those are your options. Think wisely before you choose.
@@elliefuller3667 lol what you just said sounds much more menacing and threatening than anything said in this speech if you ask me. You can most definitely love someone and not support their decisions. I can give many examples if you’d like. Just because I don’t believe in what you choose to do with your life (your choice and I don’t criticize you for that), doesn’t mean you can tell me I have to believe in it. We’re getting to the point where people are telling you what your religion HAS to believe because it doesn’t mold to societal opinion. I won’t judge you for your sexual orientation as long as it doesn’t infringe on my right to believe what I want
@@elliefuller3667 I can 100% believe in Gods plan. He teaches to love everyone, and to treat them kindly too. So I do. He also teaches that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God. So I will follow his teachings wholeheartedly, and unapologetically. I will not let ANYONE make me feel like a horrible person for believing what I do. My mind will never change. I will continue to treat every single person in my life kindly and respectfully, and that includes myself, and what I know in my heart to be true.
@@paigearbuckle4456 Please tell me why it is only to be between a man and woman.
We had a navy veteran at helaman halls in1968 that was gay. But I thought that stuff was just locker room talk, until this guy put a move on me I didn't humilate him I just said I wasn't interested in how he was trying to coerce me into his life style.
Imagine that, my first "gay experience" so to speak, was at byu
"Love the sinner, hate the sin"? REALLY? So done with this bigot. "Musket fire. Yes, we will always need defenders of the faith." Bro, you may not mean actual physical violence against those who are LGBTQIA+ or allies, but when you use a firearm as a means of explaining what you mean by defend...I don't know how you can see it for anything other than what it is, a call to use VIOLENCE to "defend the faith" if need be. "Learn more. Know more." (But only at our church-approved University, and only read the LDS-approved books, (I recommend the Gospel Topic Essays.).)
This is so manipulative... The brethren and I have shed more tears on this subject... CARE ABOUT OUR TEARS, but do not care about the tears of the people we harm.
Find another church that you feel comfortable with.
It comes down to whether or not you want to listen to modern day prophets-And if you choose to be patient with the counsel they are currently providing, versus the counsel one believes they may provide/or pridefully hope the prophets will provide in the future.
The proclamation to the world regarding eternal families was either from God or it was not. Times change, proclamations do not. There are many people who are going to continue to be frustrated as the church stand their ground. Why? Because it’s not their ground. The ground belongs to Jesus Christ. He makes the rules. And some of them are eternal, never changing.
Grow up.
Prophet? Who’s a “prophet”? Are you saying THIS guy is prophet?? What has he prophesied that has come true???
Prefect response!
Ignorance is bliss for you .. isn’t it ? So so sad … yet so revealing!
I understand that the musket thing is just a metaphor but this talk being given 2 weeks after a lesbian couple was gunned down is just in poor taste. For someone whose so sensitive and has shed more tears and hours than we could ever know (insert eye roll) that was really fuckin insensitive. So much corruption
When someone that has a super privileged life and gets to marry the girl he fell in love with while young and lives a wealthy life with the love of his life, then starts to cry over a school not being run the way he exactly wants it. I don’t feel bad for him.
What makes you think he had a privileged life? You don’t know him. You don’t know the trials he’s had. Way to stereotype.
I pray for Elder Holland and support his words 100%.
So if he said to sacrifice your kids would you do so?
@@corinneadair2119 he absolutely would, and that’s what I find terrifying. Also I love your user name
Grade A fir gaslighting. Grade F for building bridges to the marginalized.
If the brave young man who started all this talked about being heterosexual and following God's plan, nothing would have been said even though he would have been professing his sexual orientation. The parents who voice concern obviously don't have gay children or grandchildren and if they do, they have probably kicked them out and disowned them. My question to this GA is why would a parent of an LGBTQ child want to donate money or send their student to BYU?
And stop with the tears please.
I have friends with gay children and obviously they have not kicked them out and disowned them. They love them just as much as their other children.
What about all the other topics swirling around on campus? Why does he only use lgbtq people to make his point?
The gay agenda: "I just want to live my life and be happy with the one I love"
The religious response: "Why are you being so mean to me???!"
💯
07:45 " [I] am not deaf or blind to the feelings that swirl around marriage and the 'whole same sex topic on campus' and a lot of other topics..." [but this talk is not about "a lot of other topics", its about NOT supporting them same sex challenged.]
08:43 "...at the time we want to show love for 'all' of God's children." (key word - "want")
08:48 Broadly speculative "parade of horribles" with a false dilemma (between "individual dignity" OR "institutional integrity") to ensure the listener understands the slippery slope of the term "all children" including "all children."
09:25 Blames "same sex challenge[d]" for divisiveness in the world.
09:45 Crocodile tears to make an emotional plea not to include "all children" in "all children".
09:51 Blames "the world" for for being "unkind" and "crushingly cruel" to "those who live with this same sex cHaLLeNgE" and obfuscating the blood on his own hands.
11:45 Compares showing too much support for "those who live with this same sex CHALLENGE" to death by "friendly fire"?
***The frustrating part is Holland gets to walk away as if he is not promoting the very divisiveness he is decrying and the members who need to see this video probably won't. No self respecting person cares how nice you are when they know the contempt you view them with.
#BOYCOTT BYU, it worked last time.
Thank you.
Don’t boycott they are doing the right thing, your being toxic
@@chickonn3818 if they want to be special and exclusive college then let them be a college of homogeneous straight white people.
In all instances we love people but we dont love and support sin of anyone including our own sins.
Can someone tag the time he said the musket fire part?
There's a few times, he starts talking about it around 5:46 then 6:28, 11:37 and 12:57.
Well that was one way to take the focus off of the vaccine endorsement.
I’m down for critical thought against ideology, but your title is completely misleading. He said “a musket fire from the temple of LEARNING”.
Good catch - just a muscle memory brain glitch when typing the title. I’ve updated it.
@@thoughtsonthingsandstuff974 appreciate it 🤘
Joseph was exempt from keeping commandments wasn’t he?
LAdies and Gentlemen, this is an apostle of the lord giving a huge middle finger to gay people fighting for inclusion and their place in this world.
Jeff says we have no idea how many tears they’ve shed on this subject. What does anyone outside the first presidency and the 12 have to show for those tears. Absolutely nothing!
Years ago my family suffered through the worst time in our lives collectively. Our ward had a good idea of how much we were suffering. They did nothing to alleviate us for 5 years. At the end of the 5 years, but still struggling financially because of it, we moved out of the ward. When he found out we were leaving, the elders quorum president for some reason came to me, and told me how much they loved my family. He told me we were discussed often in council. They could never figure out how to help us, so they just prayed for us. It did nothing. Prayers and thoughts and tears do nothing if they are not accompanied by action.
Jeff Holland weeping for LGBTQ+ because of what they face today and after this life does nothing either. It’s insulting for him to seek sympathy for how many tears he’s shed without also offering up a solution that starts to bridge the gap between a vulnerable community and a currently homophobic church.
Do you know how many tears were shed and prayers sent up by church leaders asking for blacks to receive the priesthood?
Do you know how long any of our church leaders spend seeking guidance from the Lord to help people just like you? Scripture shows is many examples of leaders throughout history doing the same.
How long was it before their prayers were answered? And does answered prayer look like granting a request? Should it?
When Jesus came, Do you know how long and how hard the Jews had prayed and had been praying for the messiah to save them from Roman oppression? And again, how long their forefathers had prayed for deliverance from a long line of oppressors before Rome?
What did the true Messiah and Savior of the world do for them?
On the outside it looked like nothing. All that time, God’s people were born and died under oppression.
In Jesus’ time, the Jews were so angry when they understood that Jesus had not come to save them from Roman oppression (a type and shadow for us for any earthly struggle), they demanded that he be crucified! And now we wonder how they could have missed the point so completely!
The Lord did not come to save us from earthly difficulties. That was not and never will be his purpose.
Abandoning the Savior because you feel that if he was really the Savior, he would protect you from difficulty is no different from Jesus’ part -time disciples then, who only followed him because they wanted him to heal and feed and save them physically, but had no desire for real spiritual rescue. They traded this life for eternity.
We came to this earth to be tested. It’s supposed to be hard. If it was easy and the answers were all obvious and easy to come by, what kind of test would it be?
It’s not easy. The answers can be hard to find and sometimes only come after sleepless nights and long wrestles with God. And sometimes even after all you can do, the answer is still no. Sometimes your struggle will last your entire life.
After hearing hard doctrine that they could not understand (and honestly could not hope to understand given their current reality- the doctrine to eat and drink His flesh and blood), the hordes of Jesus’ part-time followers dispersed, disappointed and disgusted.
As Jesus asked the twelve, he also asks you- “Will ye also go away?”
When things don’t seem fair, when the scales look hopelessly unbalanced to our mortal eyes, we must remember to look with the eyes of eternity instead.
What purpose could your suffering serve in the scope of eternity?
Will you go away or will you trust in a loving God to give you your daily bread, instead of your earthly comfort? Can you give your last measure of meal and oil at His command? Can you be humble enough to allow him to change your heart so He can heal you? Can you trust instead in His glorious promises, remembering that this life is not the time for perfection, but that the perfect world you seek is not in this life, but in the next? Can you live for eternity?
@@annamariespackman2781 I understand that tons of leaders and members prayed for the priesthood ban to be lifted. Not all of them did though. You should read the Dialog magazine letter to the editor by Stewart Udall from 1961(17 years before 1978), since you brought up prayers from church leaders to remove the priesthood ban. Stewart Udall was the cousin of my mission president, David K Udall. Stewart was US Secretary of the Interior in the early 60s. He wrote letters to church leaders (prophet and apostles) letting them know about his plea for the church to reconsider its race policies which were viewed by more and more members and non members alike as racist. The leaders would not budge. The first presidency wrote him a letter in which they quoted a thoroughly racist 1949 first presidency letter claiming the race policy was doctrine and it had to do with those souls being less valiant in the preexistance. In 1970, Harold B Lee affirmed this doctrine in his book. The leaders actually making the decisions said that dark skin was a sign that the soul inhabiting that body had a disability, which was that it was incapable of holding the priesthood. The ban didn’t get lifted until enough of those terrible leaders died off and they still needed to send uberracists Ezra Taft Benson and Mark E Peterson away on assignment to get a unanimous vote. The other thing that pushed the church into doing the right thing was the fact they built a temple in Brazil and they didn’t feel like having to prove pure bloodlines of the Brazilians who presented as non-black to verify who could enter. The church lifted the ban because they were too lazy to keep it going. That’s an amazing heritage.
Did you ASK for help? I've found the members of the Church are helpful every time I've done all I can then asked for help.
@@pillager6190 That’s a bit condescending. I’m glad your experience was better than mine when you ASKED for help. I don’t doubt someone helped you. It seems you’re assuming I didn’t get any assistance because I was too dumb or timid to ask for help, or because I hadn’t done all I could have done. Spare me your judgement. I asked using words. My bishopric was very aware that I had requested and desperately needed help. I know my experience doesn’t fit the way you’d like to feel your church works.
@HomestarJr This is odd. Why would your experience be such a polar opposite of mine? We asked fir assistance from our Bishop, from multiple Bishops over several years for assistance to help us meet our needs. We made our efforts, and the balance was always met.
We have a son who has an incurable & terminal genetic disease - Cystic Fibrosis. He has survived 19 years of a difficult life with an inoperable Pancreas. Because of the emergency surgery thar he had to endure at 4hrs. of age, he suffers with gastrointestinal pain on a daily basis. He is in every way a strong survivor, but his needs have taken a toll on us. I'm not saying this to sue for sympathy, but to illustrate that your situation is the outlier. After thar surgery in the NICU, he went Code Blue twice and stopped breathing because of an unexpected response to his Morphine drip. Another brother from my Ward was there and we were able to quickly Administer to him while the doctors worked on him. He was resuscitated after the Ordinance and they could restart the Morphine drip and was fine from that point on.
The Restored Gospel is true, in every single facet and aspect. We have The Restored Priesthood Authority.
Go to another school where you can govern yourself and where you aren't policed like a teenager and where you can choose your own underwear.
Oh gee that was so cute and clever about the underwear.
It's not "friendly fire" if I join the opposing force.
You are FREE TO GO TO A DIFFERENT SCHOOL!!!
His crocodile tears are pathetic.
I didn’t realize how much $$ talk was spoken of until I actually listened to this talk, particularly in the first half, my husband read the talk last night and only made it partway, he stopped just before the muskets, couldn’t stomach any more
Whose tears are heavier? Multimillionaire Holland or an isolated gay youth born into a conservative Mormon family. I wonder who has really spent more time thinking about this subject 🤔
Don’t give more air time to this crap. It’s hurtful! Especially not without a commentary dissecting the speech and showing how harmful it is. I would love to see a panel discussion with you, Bill Reel, RFM, Natasha Helfer, Margi Dehlin talk about the kind of harm this does.
If you haven't listened to yesterday's live podcast on Mormon Stories with Jessie Funk, go to the 2:42:20 mark and listen to her experience. Very powerful!!
@@claudemelancon5039 thank you for the recommendation, that podcast is on my list as soon as John publishes it on the podcast app. It takes a few days. But I’m really looking forward to it.
@@JPolwarth - It's on RUclips now, if that's an option.