It's great that both DOTs work together to make this service so frequent, though I agree with your input on an alternative and Metra expansion! The Hiawatha Service and the Milwaukee Road's Hiawathas that came before it are named after The Song of Hiawatha, an 1855 epic poem by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. The epic is about the fictional adventures of an Ojibwe warrior named Hiawatha and the tragedy of his love for Minnehaha, a Dakota woman. It takes place in the Pictured Rocks area of Michigan on the south shore of Lake Superior. Longfellow's poem is based on oral traditions surrounding the figure of Manabozho, the Ojibwe trickster figure and culture hero in Anishinaabe storytelling. Longfellow drew some of his material from his friendship with Ojibwe Chief Kahge-ga-gah-bowh, who would visit Longfellow's home. He also had frequent encounters with Black Hawk and other Sauk people on Boston Common, as well as drawing inspiration from writings by Henry Rowe Schoolcraft, an ethnographer and United States Indian agent.
Brian and Wendy's Hiawatha Bar in Junction City, WI. Situated in the triangle area formed by northeast leg of the wye and the CN mainline milepost 260( from Chicago) and milepost 63( from New Lisbon) on the old Milwaukee Road valley line that goes to Tomahawk. Popular snowmobile and atv pit stop. All four quadrants have a connection track so a train can head any direction without doing a backup move.The North woods Hiawatha passed through Junction City and stopped daily in both directions. Decent ridership until the Milwaukee Road discouraged ridership with rotten service. Last train stopped running in 1970, it was only two cars long in the last years of service.
Loved both North Shore lines extending north from the end of the purple line threw Waukegan and north, and the west line from the end of the yellow line threw the chain of lakes to Roundout back to Waukegan and up
I know, letting the line be abandoned was a huge mistake. I grew up next to the former Shore Line and Barat College. The bridge over Westleigh Road proudly states: 'Chicago - North Shore Line - Milwaukee'. A mile or so from the Highwood Shops.
This brings back memories of the 1970s when my uncle would say "let go get lunch in Milwaukee, and we would head to Union Station and hop an Amtrak train to the beer city. In the early days of Amtrak we would get to ride on The Milwaukee Road Hiawatha cars. Round porthole windows and wood paneling.
One wonders if Amtrak has considered using the cafe for some basics like beer, brats/burgers for the Hiawathas. Chicagoans and Milwaukee-ites (is that the correct term?) would probably buy them up. That menu is a regional favorite. Morning runs could sell just coffee/bagels/fresh fruit.
Amtrak and WisDOT tried food service. The last attempt was a push cart, pushed by an Amtrak employee getting paid a salary selling candy bars and other snacks for $1-3 a piece. They lost over $250,000 that year on food service. Most people did not eat on the train because of the short time frame and I am guessing most of the food cart stock was either repurposed for other trains or went into the garbage at some point. The biggest issue was the cost of the person pushing the cart and the support people that supplied the food cart choices which the $1-3 cost didn't even fractionally cover.
I mean hey, seeing a Northeast Corridor car out in the Midwest isn't all that weird, not as weird as the fact Moroccan royalty once used Budd SPV-2000s as the royal train! Wisconsin chose the name Great River because it travels along the bank of the Mississippi River, and Great River is the literal meaning of Misi-ziibi, the Ojibwe name for the Mississippi River. Yes, the modern name for the river is a French interpretation of this word. Sturtevant was originally known as Parkersville, after early settlers in the area called the Parker family. It's been named Sturtevant since 1923 which was when the B. F. Sturtevant Company, a fan manufacturer, opened a plant. The manufacturer ceased to exist in 1989. Right next to the tracks in Glenview is the site of a big Naval Air Station! It was originally built by the Curtiss Flying Service and intended to be the hub of Chicago's air service. When it was dedicated as Curtiss Field in 1929, it was home to the largest hangar built to that time, Hangar One. And it was quite advanced for the time like having a one gigacandela electric light which allowed for night airfield activity. It was used by the military starting in 1937 as NRAB Chicago and later renamed to NAS Glenview in 1944. It was eventually shut down in 1995, being turned into mixed-use development called The Glen, with Hangar One and the control tower remaining. Before it was shut down, this was the staging area for the Chicago Air & Water Show.
I'm from essex near London England and have just discovered your channel,its good and i am going through your videos, your voice is clear and pleasing.ihave been to the usa several times,also did the California zephyr from Chicago to sf. Gonna settle down now and watch some more videos.
I love this short Amtrak route. I’ve been on it a few times with my mom and it’s nice to know it’s not super long. I really want to go back to Wisconsin so bad to travel on many of the types of public transportation between Kenosha and Milwaukee which I’ve done once.
Absolutely with you on the revised route suggestion. Everyone of those stops on the lake shore are very popular stops for anyone living in the area. Another great video.
Oh man! I live in Toronto now but when I lived in Chicago I’ve taken this countless times to visit my parents in Milwaukee! Thank you for giving the Hiawatha some love! Last time I was there a couple months ago I got to experience the Venture cars!
They should really invest in the UP-N and potentially move the Hiawatha onto its alignment as it is designed to have passing tracks and has existing grade separations. It also doesn’t see freight services that much.
@@TysonIkeI NEVER saw a freight train on it in all my years growing up along it. Only non-passenger or maintenance train I know of that traveled along it in all my years growing up was when the Olympic torch traveled by train between Chicago and Milwaukee on its way to the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City
@@rleeAZ probably will be more likely to have a separate system from Milwaukee through the Wisconsin lakeshore suburbs. Though I do think they should try to get it to terminate in Waukegan for more frequent transfers and to allow individuals at the nearby naval station to easily take day trips into Milwaukee
for some folks in Chicago to get to Milwaukee we take Metra to Glenview and then wait for Amtrak to continue the trip to Milwaukee. it works well. the connection to the Milwaukee airport works well for renting cars to go to other areas of Wisconsin
nope from the northwest side. i did cta bus to the mdn line to glenview waited and then hopped amtrak to milwaukee airport or downtown. i lived on cicero and would take the bus to the mayfair station. now if i would need to do go to milwaukee i would jump on metra at healy after a short cta bus trip. its not worth going to the loop where i live in the city limits@@Thom-TRA
Great video! I actually made a bit of a video recently talking about the Hiawatha and passenger rail in Wisconsin, I mention a bit about those proposed extensions. Really hope that line to Madison gets done!
Great day up here- some ideas- really like the bookstore! Thank you. You have to check out the bobble head museum - largest in the world and definitely lunch at the Milwaukee public Marker too!
The Hiawatha is a great service. New cars and increased frequency will make this service great. I would like to see in future a true cafe available on this train. Even if it was an abbreviated menu with simple snacks and drinks would be great.
There's only really 3 ways where the The Hiawatha can be reroute to the UP-N line. Option 1. Diverging from the MD-N line after North Glenview onto UP tracks that is going to Lake Bluff on the UP-N, least effective option since it would only really cover Waukegan, Kenosha, etc... Option 2. Using the Former CNW Weber subdivision which would allow an Amtrak connection to Evanston via Central street, Wilmette, etc... However the problem is that it is pretty much impossible to restore it without getting the attention of NIMBYs, Stores and Businesses that maybe get displaced, Thom I'd suggest learning more about the CNW's Mayfair-Weber and Skokie subdivisions. Option 3. Where the former Cassidy Tires Building used to be and is now demolished to make way for a new Highrise building, I mean they could make this work by Have a portion of the 1st and 2nd floors be Demolished to make way for a Rail connecter that used to belong to the CNW for its Wells street terminal, I dub this Hypothetical Rail connector the Schlacks-Cassidy Railway Connector, not only would it be used by Amtrak for occasional Hiawatha reroutes but it would also allow occasional reroutes of the Metra UP-N line to Union Station and some other Metra RER Services.
Awesome trip report for the Hiawatha! I've been hoping you would do a report for this route for quite a while and I'm so glad it came to fruition. Probably one of my favorite trip reports from the channel! A few things. I've scoured the previous comments and couldn't find your question answered about the cabbage cars (I do apologize if it was answered somewhere and I missed it). The veterans cabbage car (90221) is still utilized on one of the Hiawatha trainsets. Lately, it has been having that at one end and one of the dash 8s on the other end. Also, speaking of the Clinton Avenue spot (being one of your favorite places to railfan, as well loved by many others), Steel HIghways recently launched a railcam that overlooks that spot. All that you would need to do is to look up Chicago & North Western railcam and you'll see it appear. It's probably my most watched railcam and love watching the Empire Builder and Hiawathas pass by it. I also do appreciate that you included Glenview as well. When I get the chance to go to IL and have free time, Glenview is my favorite place to railfan from. Again, such an enjoyable report! This will be one that I come back and frequent. :)
Wisconsin Dells is the only part of Wisconsin I like. It's a great stop on the Empire Builder. I'm excited to hear there will be a new Amtrak through St Paul!
Hiawatha in 60's used to run via billings to the west coast, long gone ! Mineapolis-St Paul would be great inter regional servic like nort east corridor, reduce airtraffic !
Doing this whole day trip (and then some - Metra to downtown and back from my NW suburb!) on Friday! With my wife, on our anniversary. I think I found the bookstore you guys went to, and we’ll check that out also. Can’t wait!
@@Thom-TRA We had a great trip! Checked out the Kenosha Public museum also, and had done time to put up the drone by the lake. Went to Tesl Chili in Milwaukee at lunch which was awesome. And we did find the bookstore there, and yes I did buy more books than would fit in my day pack. Train books. Thanks so much for inspiring us to do this! A highlight for 2023, for us!
There's been talk of trying to get Metra to extend from Kenosha to Milwaukee since I was a kid. Now I'm 40. At least maybe we'll finally get the link between Madison and Milwaukee that is so sorely overdue.
I wonder if Dane and Columbia Counties could get some sort of light rail or commuter rail service running down US 151 / E. Washington Avenue to get people from the existing station in Columbus into Madison?
It would also be nice if Metra had service on the CPKC (or C&E line as Openrailway calls it) as there are some key commercial centers in that area-maybe also bury the UP-W at that Junction
Also back when the capitol corridor first started it was all horizon car until like the mid 1990s. From what I also heard the same horizon cars now serve the Pacific Surfliner
Hiawatha seems like a good route; that frequency is really solid for Amtrak. Good state-supported service for sure but I'm also not a huge fan of the Horizon cars (aside from those seats, but we get those on the Amfleets as well!). I think this route most closely compares with the Keystone corridor that travels from Penn Station on Manhattan to Harrisburg, PA via Philadelphia. That service is also fairly frequent with roughly the same number of daily trains (give or take), but it ALSO doesn't have a cafe car, which I always thought was a huge bummer because the route is definitely long enough, and DEFINITELY busy enough to justify it.
I take the Hiawatha every 3 months to go to the office for a week at my current job in the Milwaukee area. I wish for the extension to Madison, WI since my actual office is in the Waukesha area.
I hope that at some point they consider electrification of either corridor between Milwaukee and Chicago. It would take a lot of money and effort, but I think once its done it could prove to be a model for other corridors.
@@WillGrimm623 I mean Metra would be willling to upgrade the trackage and add sidings to certain portions of the line and Amtrak should try purchasing the Tracks from Rondout to Milwaukee from CPKC. So they could upgrade the Tracks for Higher Speeds
@@WillGrimm623 Also I'm pretty sure Metra is trying to do an MBTA strategy when it comes to Electrification, they are essentially waiting for Amtrak to Electrify the Lines they share with Amtrak.
It’s a 3 day weekend in bed with COVID for me. I stumbled upon your channel and have been binge watching! I work for Amtrak and I value the time you and other content creators spend on the railroad. Most of my time is spent behind a computer. It’s always good tuning in to see the experiences our customers are having while traveling.
I don't know if you ever get to the northeast, but one the New Haven to Springfield line we have a combination of Amtrak and CT Rail. Most of the tickets are interchangeable. At New Haven you can us a combo if Amtrak/Metro North. A person could also take Shoreline East from New Haven to New London. I personally have the added bonus of living within walking distance of the Meriden, CT railroad station! I just rode it tonight to go to church in Wallingford.
What this video doesn't show is how popular the 6:30 and 5pm trains are. I've heard of people standing. I rode it once from Sturdavant to Union and was lucky to find a seat. Some people commented about wanting more frequency. There is a lot of congestion on this route with Metra on south and CP on the north. CP is one of the more accomodating RR to amtrak but adding more trains doesn't work for them with the current infrastructure. There are few sidings on this route but it is double tracked. There are places where the train can switch tracks without slowing a lot to pass freights. I remember passing one that was parked on the route. I think the cafe was closed because of lack of revenue. This is really a commuter train with limited stops so few people used the food service. One would think they could have vending machines? Nice work TAA.
Only if Amtrak and the freight companies could agree on a simple fix for the most practical line you showed. Seems like a bad sibling rivalry between them.
Go to St. Louis Mo. (make sure it’s on a Friday so you can go to soulard market on sat morning and ride the metro link to the streetcar line) The Amtrak from Chicago to at Louis is a high speed line and goes 100mph plus!!!! If you do go, go in the area where the doors are and hear and feel the creaking and squeaking of the older cars that they upgraded for the line! It’s kind of unnerving.
Once the service to Minneapolis is added, it will be a much more scenic route. I took a day trip to Milwaukee last year, and I took that same train, and the scenery was just suburban wasteland. It was not pretty at all. It was literally just Metra with slightly more comfortable seats. But it was nice not having to drive to Milwaukee and I’d still do that over driving any day. If there is an option where I don’t have to drive, then I’m gonna take that option
Fox Lake for Madison, the trains for Milwaukee, the Cities, the Valley, and Green Bay stayed on the C&M through Sturtevant. Wait until these youngsters find out about the train from Milwaukee connecting to Omaha without going to Chicago.
I know Milwaukee went to Madison and Milwaukee on those tracks. I have a 1964 Milwaukee passenger schedule. The Morning Hiawatha, the Afternoon Hiawatha and some cities trains ran on these tracks. So did the Varsity and Badger trains to Madison. They must have abandoned them sometime after Amtrak. They were not in use in the early 80s. In 1988 the tracks were being upgraded. Wisconsin and Calumet ran a dinner train from Fox Lake to Madison. Today Wisconsin and Southern used these tracks.
@@peterdelestrez8880 The Sioux and Varsity made their last runs on April 30, 1971. I know the guy who did some of the track upgrading for Wisconsin northwest of Fox Lake in the 1990s. Wisconsin and Southern still operate the old J Line into Madison as well as the tracks to Prairie du Chien. Your 1964 schedule will also show trains 25 and 26 which ran from Milwaukee to Savanna by way of Milton Junction and Freeport. Those tracks are long gone.
Thom! I’m going on this line with my dad, also because for Easter, I got a tripod, I also want to get into a horizon car as I never went in those rail cars for at leas 5 years. The place I’m going to is Sturtevant WI, or Milwaukee airport.
Oh, and also about that issue with the Hiawatha service part of the video I’d like the train to stop in Evanston, Highland Park, Waukegan, and Kenosha.
However, because that’s a lot of stops, maybe it can make it limited for Waukegan and Highland Park because the other a few towns are pretty big, especially Evanston. Also, all of the other routes that share with Amtrak have at least one or two stations connecting Metra.
There used to be another train called the Twin Cities Hiawatha that went up to Minneapolis but now the hiawatha only goes to the farthest extent of metra
Thank you for this superb video ! The scenery en route to Milwaukee is as flat as a pancake, as you rightly hint ! I completely agree it is a no brainier to extend the UP North line from Kenosha to Milwaukee, and would it matter if the starting point in Chicago was Ogilvie Transportation Centre rather than Union station ? Very glad to hear there will be a daily extension of a Hiawatha service to St.Paul. Many thanks, and I look forward to your return journey !
I don’t think it would matter much, it would be nice to add a weather-proof connection between the two terminals, considering how close they are to each other.
If there were ever to move the Hiawatha to a UP routing, it would likely take the current route to a new connection they would build to the UP “new line” in northbrook and take that to Kenosha Racine and others. But it would not go to Evanston or Highland Park or any of those suburbs
It would matter, as one of the selling points of the Amtrak National Network, such as it is, is connectivity. That's why The Milwaukee Road was the designated route back in 1971 in preference to the C&NW; and there are still people who regret not pushing harder to keep the service to Green Bay running. In the same way that the Empire Builder went on The Milwaukee Road east of the Cities, the Green Bay trains could have used The Milwaukee Road as far as Canco on the north side of Milwaukee.
It's the same story with the cafe that's not "really" a cafe on the Empire Service trains that orginate/terminate in Albany-Renssalaer. I always heard this was the case becauese NYSDOT didn't want to contribute funding to operate the cafes on that segment. The 280 series trains to Niagara Falls the, Adirondack and Ethan Allen Express do have actually operating cafe cars. The Horizon-Fleet cars are the least favorite Amtrak equipment I've ridden. I've only ever had them once on the Empire Service. They defiinitely made me miss the Amfleet I's even with their tiny windows on what is one the most scenic routes in the east. I hope they can make the Hiawatha improvements and add frequency as well
@@Thom-TRA It was just that once, probably more than 10 years ago. I've never seen them this far east since. I believe there was a couple of times when the Adirondack even ran with VIA HEP Budd equipment a few years back for a few weeks. I forgot the reason for subbing the VIA equipment, and i couldn't make it work to ride because of work.
Thom, love your videos. Do you, or any of your followers, have suggestions as to the best apps to use while on a long distance train trip? Hoping to find something that, in real time, indicates where you are and highlights local points of interest. Any suggestions? Thanks!
I can’t think of any apps perse. The Amtrak website has a train tracker, and if you do some digging in bookstores or online you might be able to find the old route guides. I have one from the Southwest chief.
@@Thom-TRA Amtrak should buy the trackage of the Hiawatha north of Rondout from CPKC so It could upgraded to Higher Speeds (and maybe electrification).
Nice vídeo. That Street car in Milwaukee is neat. It seems to be quite small, I would say it's sonething in the vicinity of 25 meters. The fact of being free is a nice way to captivate people for the goodness of a modern transit system. Spesking about goodness, it is nice to see all those plans for the expansion of Huawatha service. But I would Change some stuff a little bit; the services to the Twin Cities should simple be called Twin Cities Hiawatha. Antrak doesn't needs to invent new fancy names for the trains, just re-,use the classic ones. And those trains should be 2 per day, complementing the existing Empire Builder, wich then could be trabsformed into a fast limited stop train from Chicago to St. Paul, and each of the Twin Cities should have it's own station, not just getting SPUD as a single station for both towns. As for frequency, at least between Chicago from St. Paul it should be hourly offpeak and 30 mimutes on peak times. About the speed on that corridor, it is fast, but a cair cry of what used to be (in 1937, the Hiawathas, trains 1 & 2 were allowed 60 Mph between Chicago and Western Ave, and 100 Mph afterwards, but there were some local restrictions). The line, with the exception of the exit from Union Station and some curves just before Milwaukee Station is 'Tangent as a dash '. It is good for 125 Mph. The same level of speed should be permitted from Milwaukee to the Twin Cities. There's a lot of good track geometry allowing that. This means, at least having Class 7 Track, 'special' grade crossings or under/overpasses, and all those Diamond type crossings should be grade separated ( one could leave them in place, but with such a high frequency service it would create Traffic difficulties, and speed would have to be limited - to 70 Mph or lower - while going thru them. Not a good idea in terms of energy management). I also like the idea of push pull trains. Allows quick turnarounds. Another thing; these trains should have at least some type of food service. I does not need to be a fancy thing. Vending machimes can be a good option
Looking forward to the ride back. As an Evanston-ian trying to use the Hiawatha is really annoying. The only intermediate stop in the Metro area is Glenview and there is no direct bus there requiring a Pace-to-Pace or a Pace bus to Pace-to-Metra transfer both having to work around 1-hour transfers...on a weekday. On a weekend you have to to do the Pace-to-Metra transfer now having to work around 2-hour timetables. Also I am extremely spiteful of Glenview for getting an Amtrak station and not wanting it. They want to move the Amtrak station to Glenview North, moving it from a centralized downtown to a Park-N-Ride because the trains take away priority from cars along Glenview Road. Additionally they are the biggest proponent against expanding Hiawatha service from 7 round trips to 10 roundrips being against a siding through the town needed to do that, publicly lambasting the "poor ridership" in the process. I am all for a return of the old C&NW 400 Chicago-Milwaukee service thru Metra and the constantly sidelined Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee Commuter Rail Proposal. There are so many more urbanized areas it can stop ay that would greatly appreciate it. It would remove the the need to route trains into Union Station for Amtrak service. The biggest issue would be the quality of the tracks. While the tracks close to city have been consistently upgraded, the tracks north of Highland Park still have hand operated switches and singal direction signaling which is what caused all the delays during the UP-NW tie replacement project. A lot of upgrades would be needed to get it ready for medium-distance passenger service.
Yeah Glenview is a very questionable location for a station. And the longer I spend in Chicago, the more I wonder if the three agencies of the RTA should consolidate so they can actually offer one product instead of a mismatched patchwork of services.
There's only really 3 ways where the The Hiawatha can be reroute to the UP-N line. Option 1. Diverging from the MD-N line after North Glenview onto UP tracks that is going to Lake Bluff on the UP-N, least effective option since it would only really cover Waukegan, Kenosha, etc... Option 2. Using the Former CNW Weber subdivision which would allow an Amtrak connection to Evanston via Central street, Wilmette, etc... However the problem is that it is pretty much impossible to restore it without getting the attention of NIMBYs, Stores and Businesses that maybe get displaced, Thom I'd suggest learning more about the CNW's Mayfair-Weber and Skokie subdivisions. Option 3. Where the former Cassidy Tires Building used to be and is now demolished to make way for a new Highrise building, I mean they could make this work by Have a portion of the 1st and 2nd floors be Demolished to make way for a Rail connecter that used to belong to the CNW for its Wells street terminal, I dub this Hypothetical Rail connector the Schlacks-Cassidy Railway Connector, not only would it be used by Amtrak for occasional Hiawatha reroutes but it would also allow occasional reroutes of the Metra UP-N line to Union Station and some other Metra RER Services.
Now that you live in dc, can you do a review of shuttle um, and some fun trivia river road is the only route that currently doesn't at all go to umd campus
I highly doubt they would ever move the Hiawatha to the Kenosha subdivision, but if they were to do that, they would likely build a connection to the UP freight line in Northbrook. That being said, it would miss most of the northern suburbs but could stop in Kenosha and Racine
Back in the late 1970s there was a proposal by Wisconsin Association of Rail Passengers (WiSARP) to reroute one of the two long distance trains running between Chicago and Minneapolis. We had the Empire Builder and The North Coast Hiawatha and an overnight train Called the North Star that traveled beyond Minneapolis to Duluth. All three of these trains used the Milwaukee Road from Chicago to Minneapolis. The North Coast Hiawatha was proposed to run along the C&NW from Chicago to Fond du Lac with stops in Evanston, Racine, Milwaukee, and West Bend. Then it was going to take the Soo Line to Chippewa Falls with several stops in between including Stevens Point, where I was in High School. At Chippewa Falls it would take the C&NW to Eau Claire and then Minneapolis. There was a lot of excitement about this and I became a member of WiSARP and NARP and helped circulate petitions to support the proposal. However the cutbacks in funding resulted in the the Empire Builder and the North Coast Hiawatha being reduced to less than daily west of Minneapolis and a single train east to Chicago. Then the overnight North Star train was dropped between Chicago and Minneapolis. A month before the new superliners were scheduled to replace the older equipment in 1979, the North Coast Hiawatha was discontinued and the Empire Builder went daily west of Minneapolis. The reroute plan for the Hiawatha faded away and is only a memory.
Oh for the days when one could catch the Morning Hiawatha (MIlwaukee Road) or a 400 on the C&NW! I'm thinking that the UP wouldn't be too thrilled for Amtrak to add to the numerous Metra schedules--my eyes widened when you mentioned a certain Milwaukee bookstore--what is the name and address? Did you relocate back to Chicago from DC?
I’m not sure about your theory that the cafe car is required for WiFi. The Hiawatha has had wifi for almost a decade, but the cafe cars didn’t show up until Covid
It’s not a theory. I literally researched this. Amtrak has wifi modems in either cafe cars or cab cars. The reason you didn’t see cafe cars earlier is because there were cab cars. No cab car means they need cafes for wifi.
There's a rumor going around that there will be temporary service to Green Bay when the NFL draft comes to town in 2025. I hope this happens, and that discussions can go from there to make that a permanent service.
@@Thom-TRA Thom- Expats from where ..?... I'm guessing the Netherlands, but since you have been EVERYWHERE, they could be from ANYWHERE... Pete C., in NH
Not if the connection is right in downtown Chicago. Probably would not add much if any runtime since it doesn’t use the busy interlocking and there’s less freight trains.
@@Thom-TRA I hope so too, it's one of the few times you can ride every era of the subway I do know it last from basically around Thanksgiving until February
Hopefully the Great River finds cafe car funding to open it on the eight hour trip. Not everyone can be like us and remember to bring grub from Kwik Trip 😊
Interesting that Amtrak services the airport but that they couldn't be bothered to provide a local rail connection to those arriving in MKE by plane. When I visited I took a Lyft downtown and then a local bus returning to the airport. Would love to ride the Hiawatha!
@@tallguy6055 Yes, there are some trips where boardings at the airport exceed boardings downtown, and any extension of the services toward Madison had best get through Milwaukee quickly, otherwise people who might board at Oconomowoc or Brookfield will still drive to the airport to catch the train the way some currently do.
Last week i Took the hiawatha to milwaukee for a day. Then at milwaukee we took the streetcar around the city. Great experience! 😁
Glad you had fun!
Hello from Milwaukee. Glad you had a good time!!
It's great that both DOTs work together to make this service so frequent, though I agree with your input on an alternative and Metra expansion! The Hiawatha Service and the Milwaukee Road's Hiawathas that came before it are named after The Song of Hiawatha, an 1855 epic poem by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. The epic is about the fictional adventures of an Ojibwe warrior named Hiawatha and the tragedy of his love for Minnehaha, a Dakota woman. It takes place in the Pictured Rocks area of Michigan on the south shore of Lake Superior. Longfellow's poem is based on oral traditions surrounding the figure of Manabozho, the Ojibwe trickster figure and culture hero in Anishinaabe storytelling.
Longfellow drew some of his material from his friendship with Ojibwe Chief Kahge-ga-gah-bowh, who would visit Longfellow's home. He also had frequent encounters with Black Hawk and other Sauk people on Boston Common, as well as drawing inspiration from writings by Henry Rowe Schoolcraft, an ethnographer and United States Indian agent.
Thanks for this, I had always wondered what all things Hiawatha were named after!
Brian and Wendy's Hiawatha Bar in Junction City, WI. Situated in the triangle area formed by northeast leg of the wye and the CN mainline milepost 260( from Chicago) and milepost 63( from New Lisbon) on the old Milwaukee Road valley line that goes to Tomahawk. Popular snowmobile and atv pit stop. All four quadrants have a connection track so a train can head any direction without doing a backup move.The North woods Hiawatha passed through Junction City and stopped daily in both directions. Decent ridership until the Milwaukee Road discouraged ridership with rotten service. Last train stopped running in 1970, it was only two cars long in the last years of service.
I wish that we could restore the North Shore Line between Chicago and Milwaukee. But once you lose something, it is impossible to get it back.
Loved both North Shore lines extending north from the end of the purple line threw Waukegan and north, and the west line from the end of the yellow line threw the chain of lakes to Roundout back to Waukegan and up
Out of all the things in Chicago’s transit history, the North Shore Line is the thing I want back the most
I know, letting the line be abandoned was a huge mistake. I grew up next to the former Shore Line and Barat College. The bridge over Westleigh Road proudly states: 'Chicago - North Shore Line - Milwaukee'. A mile or so from the Highwood Shops.
Agreed. I live right near the former skokie valley route.
The North Shore Line was the way to get to Milwaukee from within Lake County in addtion to the 400s
I love the Hiawatha. I’ve taken it at least 100 times it seems in the last 11 years. I remember being a little kid and loving every second of the ride
You’ve single-handedly been sponsoring the train! Thank you for your service.
@@Thom-TRA haha yeah. Being in my 20s I feel like I started riding it eternities ago
This brings back memories of the 1970s when my uncle would say "let go get lunch in Milwaukee, and we would head to Union Station and hop an Amtrak train to the beer city. In the early days of Amtrak we would get to ride on The Milwaukee Road Hiawatha cars. Round porthole windows and wood paneling.
Love the spontaneity!
I love the Hiawatha Service from Chicago to Milwaukee.
Thank you for bringing the shorter routes to light.
One wonders if Amtrak has considered using the cafe for some basics like beer, brats/burgers for the Hiawathas. Chicagoans and Milwaukee-ites (is that the correct term?) would probably buy them up. That menu is a regional favorite. Morning runs could sell just coffee/bagels/fresh fruit.
Unfortunately whether or not the train has catering depends on state funding from Wisconsin, I believe.
Amtrak and WisDOT tried food service. The last attempt was a push cart, pushed by an Amtrak employee getting paid a salary selling candy bars and other snacks for $1-3 a piece. They lost over $250,000 that year on food service. Most people did not eat on the train because of the short time frame and I am guessing most of the food cart stock was either repurposed for other trains or went into the garbage at some point. The biggest issue was the cost of the person pushing the cart and the support people that supplied the food cart choices which the $1-3 cost didn't even fractionally cover.
The train is easily too short to economically support food service-they would lose tons of money for something few people would use.
Milwaukeans
Milwaukeeans.
I mean hey, seeing a Northeast Corridor car out in the Midwest isn't all that weird, not as weird as the fact Moroccan royalty once used Budd SPV-2000s as the royal train! Wisconsin chose the name Great River because it travels along the bank of the Mississippi River, and Great River is the literal meaning of Misi-ziibi, the Ojibwe name for the Mississippi River. Yes, the modern name for the river is a French interpretation of this word. Sturtevant was originally known as Parkersville, after early settlers in the area called the Parker family. It's been named Sturtevant since 1923 which was when the B. F. Sturtevant Company, a fan manufacturer, opened a plant. The manufacturer ceased to exist in 1989.
Right next to the tracks in Glenview is the site of a big Naval Air Station! It was originally built by the Curtiss Flying Service and intended to be the hub of Chicago's air service. When it was dedicated as Curtiss Field in 1929, it was home to the largest hangar built to that time, Hangar One. And it was quite advanced for the time like having a one gigacandela electric light which allowed for night airfield activity. It was used by the military starting in 1937 as NRAB Chicago and later renamed to NAS Glenview in 1944. It was eventually shut down in 1995, being turned into mixed-use development called The Glen, with Hangar One and the control tower remaining. Before it was shut down, this was the staging area for the Chicago Air & Water Show.
I'm from essex near London England and have just discovered your channel,its good and i am going through your videos, your voice is clear and pleasing.ihave been to the usa several times,also did the California zephyr from Chicago to sf. Gonna settle down now and watch some more videos.
Enjoy! Let me know if you have any questions. I really appreciate your comment.
I love this short Amtrak route. I’ve been on it a few times with my mom and it’s nice to know it’s not super long. I really want to go back to Wisconsin so bad to travel on many of the types of public transportation between Kenosha and Milwaukee which I’ve done once.
Absolutely with you on the revised route suggestion. Everyone of those stops on the lake shore are very popular stops for anyone living in the area. Another great video.
Thanks!
Oh man! I live in Toronto now but when I lived in Chicago I’ve taken this countless times to visit my parents in Milwaukee! Thank you for giving the Hiawatha some love! Last time I was there a couple months ago I got to experience the Venture cars!
Always frustrated me I couldn't take Metra to Racine. Extending the UP line to Milwaukee makes sense to me.
They should really invest in the UP-N and potentially move the Hiawatha onto its alignment as it is designed to have passing tracks and has existing grade separations. It also doesn’t see freight services that much.
@@TysonIkeI NEVER saw a freight train on it in all my years growing up along it. Only non-passenger or maintenance train I know of that traveled along it in all my years growing up was when the Olympic torch traveled by train between Chicago and Milwaukee on its way to the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City
KRM commuter rail!
@@rleeAZ probably will be more likely to have a separate system from Milwaukee through the Wisconsin lakeshore suburbs. Though I do think they should try to get it to terminate in Waukegan for more frequent transfers and to allow individuals at the nearby naval station to easily take day trips into Milwaukee
In my experience it’s a lot more busy in Milwaukee when it’s warm out
If the Downeaster can offer five trains per day (and i think they could do more) Chicago to Milwaukee should be able to manage ten/day.
@@ronclark9724 I want four times as many trains and I live on Neptune. You'd love it here, there's no shortage of clouds to yell at.
I'm off to Milwaukee on the Hiawatha line tomorrow- very excited!!
for some folks in Chicago to get to Milwaukee we take Metra to Glenview and then wait for Amtrak to continue the trip to Milwaukee. it works well. the connection to the Milwaukee airport works well for renting cars to go to other areas of Wisconsin
By Chicago you mean the Chicago suburbs then?
nope from the northwest side. i did cta bus to the mdn line to glenview waited and then hopped amtrak to milwaukee airport or downtown. i lived on cicero and would take the bus to the mayfair station. now if i would need to do go to milwaukee i would jump on metra at healy after a short cta bus trip. its not worth going to the loop where i live in the city limits@@Thom-TRA
Love the attention to detail you give your videos!
Thank you!
Good one. Yes, offering snacks and beverages on those trains would be a welcome addition, at least coffee and danish.
You'd think at a minimum they could match the NC Piedmont service with vending machines and hot beverages available!
@@daniellewis1789 Good idea for runs that are too short to enjoy a complete meal.Just right for commuters on the run and in need of coffee and danish.
I am on the UPN right now to Kenosha to ride the trolley. Pretty cool
Great video, love Lindseys antics in the background!
Great video! I actually made a bit of a video recently talking about the Hiawatha and passenger rail in Wisconsin, I mention a bit about those proposed extensions. Really hope that line to Madison gets done!
This video did not disappoint 😊
I’m so glad!
Great day up here- some ideas- really like the bookstore! Thank you. You have to check out the bobble head museum - largest in the world and definitely lunch at the Milwaukee public Marker too!
The Hiawatha is a great service.
New cars and increased frequency will make this service great.
I would like to see in future a true cafe available on this train. Even if it was an abbreviated menu with simple snacks and drinks would be great.
There's only really 3 ways where the The Hiawatha can be reroute to the UP-N line.
Option 1. Diverging from the MD-N line after North Glenview onto UP tracks that is going to Lake Bluff on the UP-N, least effective option since it would only really cover Waukegan, Kenosha, etc...
Option 2. Using the Former CNW Weber subdivision which would allow an Amtrak connection to Evanston via Central street, Wilmette, etc... However the problem is that it is pretty much impossible to restore it without getting the attention of NIMBYs, Stores and Businesses that maybe get displaced, Thom I'd suggest learning more about the CNW's Mayfair-Weber and Skokie subdivisions.
Option 3. Where the former Cassidy Tires Building used to be and is now demolished to make way for a new Highrise building, I mean they could make this work by Have a portion of the 1st and 2nd floors be Demolished to make way for a Rail connecter that used to belong to the CNW for its Wells street terminal, I dub this Hypothetical Rail connector the Schlacks-Cassidy Railway Connector, not only would it be used by Amtrak for occasional Hiawatha reroutes but it would also allow occasional reroutes of the Metra UP-N line to Union Station and some other Metra RER Services.
Awesome trip report for the Hiawatha! I've been hoping you would do a report for this route for quite a while and I'm so glad it came to fruition. Probably one of my favorite trip reports from the channel!
A few things. I've scoured the previous comments and couldn't find your question answered about the cabbage cars (I do apologize if it was answered somewhere and I missed it). The veterans cabbage car (90221) is still utilized on one of the Hiawatha trainsets. Lately, it has been having that at one end and one of the dash 8s on the other end.
Also, speaking of the Clinton Avenue spot (being one of your favorite places to railfan, as well loved by many others), Steel HIghways recently launched a railcam that overlooks that spot. All that you would need to do is to look up Chicago & North Western railcam and you'll see it appear. It's probably my most watched railcam and love watching the Empire Builder and Hiawathas pass by it.
I also do appreciate that you included Glenview as well. When I get the chance to go to IL and have free time, Glenview is my favorite place to railfan from.
Again, such an enjoyable report! This will be one that I come back and frequent. :)
I'm glad you answered the question about the cabbage. I know it's been off and on for a while now.
Honestly Amtrak should try purchasing the Tracks from Rondout to Milwaukee from CPKC. So they could upgrade the Tracks for Higher Speeds
CPKC isn't likely to let go of track, but maybe a 50/50 split like Virginia and CSX has worked out is possible. But it'd take state leadership.
Wisconsin Dells is the only part of Wisconsin I like. It's a great stop on the Empire Builder. I'm excited to hear there will be a new Amtrak through St Paul!
There are other parts of the state that are great!
You're really churning out these videos!
Doing my best!
Hiawatha in 60's used to run via billings to the west coast, long gone ! Mineapolis-St Paul would be great inter regional servic like nort east corridor, reduce airtraffic !
Doing this whole day trip (and then some - Metra to downtown and back from my NW suburb!) on Friday! With my wife, on our anniversary. I think I found the bookstore you guys went to, and we’ll check that out also. Can’t wait!
Happy anniversary! Have a great trip
@@Thom-TRA We had a great trip! Checked out the Kenosha Public museum also, and had done time to put up the drone by the lake. Went to Tesl Chili in Milwaukee at lunch which was awesome. And we did find the bookstore there, and yes I did buy more books than would fit in my day pack. Train books.
Thanks so much for inspiring us to do this! A highlight for 2023, for us!
There's been talk of trying to get Metra to extend from Kenosha to Milwaukee since I was a kid. Now I'm 40. At least maybe we'll finally get the link between Madison and Milwaukee that is so sorely overdue.
I wonder if Dane and Columbia Counties could get some sort of light rail or commuter rail service running down US 151 / E. Washington Avenue to get people from the existing station in Columbus into Madison?
They’re planning KRM commuter rail which will be separate from metra for the Milwaukee area
It would also be nice if Metra had service on the CPKC (or C&E line as Openrailway calls it) as there are some key commercial centers in that area-maybe also bury the UP-W at that Junction
12:37 Really lovely to know
Nice glimpse of a Metra F40C @ 6:39! I hope that gets preserved.
I hope so too!
Also back when the capitol corridor first started it was all horizon car until like the mid 1990s. From what I also heard the same horizon cars now serve the Pacific Surfliner
I travelled to Chicago Union Station back in July of 2023. I must agree, the Great Hall line up was laughably and thoroughly ineffective!
I have no clue why they did it that way
Hiawatha seems like a good route; that frequency is really solid for Amtrak. Good state-supported service for sure but I'm also not a huge fan of the Horizon cars (aside from those seats, but we get those on the Amfleets as well!). I think this route most closely compares with the Keystone corridor that travels from Penn Station on Manhattan to Harrisburg, PA via Philadelphia. That service is also fairly frequent with roughly the same number of daily trains (give or take), but it ALSO doesn't have a cafe car, which I always thought was a huge bummer because the route is definitely long enough, and DEFINITELY busy enough to justify it.
In my experience the seats on the horizons fall apart more than on Amfleet too
Really enjoy seeing you two enjoying trains together. Can’t wait until it’s extended to St.Paul. Awesome!!!
I take the Hiawatha every 3 months to go to the office for a week at my current job in the Milwaukee area. I wish for the extension to Madison, WI since my actual office is in the Waukesha area.
I love Madison so I’m waiting for that extension too
Do you think you’ll ever do an Illini/Saluki trip in the future? Would love to see that route
I did the CONO to Champaign last u we. Illini/Saluki won’t happen very soon probably because I don’t live in the area anymore
I live in Milwaukee…so I have traveled round trip to Chicago twice in six months. I am well aware of the Hiawatha line.
That’s great
love you guys
How u doing?- Trains- you did excellent !peace out! 😮
Thanks!
I hope that at some point they consider electrification of either corridor between Milwaukee and Chicago. It would take a lot of money and effort, but I think once its done it could prove to be a model for other corridors.
Not as long as CPKC and Metra still own the lines
@@WillGrimm623Are either wide enough for a Virginia-style 50-50 ROW split?
@@WillGrimm623 I mean Metra would be willling to upgrade the trackage and add sidings to certain portions of the line and Amtrak should try purchasing the Tracks from Rondout to Milwaukee from CPKC. So they could upgrade the Tracks for Higher Speeds
@@WillGrimm623 Also I'm pretty sure Metra is trying to do an MBTA strategy when it comes to Electrification, they are essentially waiting for Amtrak to Electrify the Lines they share with Amtrak.
@@daniellewis1789 I think the ROW is wide enough for Sidings.
There used to be stops in South Milwaukee and Oak Creek a long long long time ago .
Thanks!
Thank you so much for your generous gift!
It’s a 3 day weekend in bed with COVID for me. I stumbled upon your channel and have been binge watching! I work for Amtrak and I value the time you and other content creators spend on the railroad. Most of my time is spent behind a computer. It’s always good tuning in to see the experiences our customers are having while traveling.
@@BusterMcT wishing you a quick recovery! Covid sucks
Metra should try extending the UP-N line to Milwaukee.
12:13 Lindsey! Tongues on the streetcar??? Shocking!!! ❤😅
Everything my dad and I go to Wisconsin, we always go to Culvers 😂😂 have to get ButterBurgers and Cheese Curds!
I like Culver’s to!!!
I don't know if you ever get to the northeast, but one the New Haven to Springfield line we have a combination of Amtrak and CT Rail. Most of the tickets are interchangeable. At New Haven you can us a combo if Amtrak/Metro North. A person could also take Shoreline East from New Haven to New London. I personally have the added bonus of living within walking distance of the Meriden, CT railroad station! I just rode it tonight to go to church in Wallingford.
I get to the northeast every day now that I live in DC!
Great video
Thanks!
I enjoyed that video👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it
The Horizon cars and the older Amfleets are such a weird mismatch!! 😂
What this video doesn't show is how popular the 6:30 and 5pm trains are. I've heard of people standing. I rode it once from Sturdavant to Union and was lucky to find a seat. Some people commented about wanting more frequency. There is a lot of congestion on this route with Metra on south and CP on the north. CP is one of the more accomodating RR to amtrak but adding more trains doesn't work for them with the current infrastructure. There are few sidings on this route but it is double tracked. There are places where the train can switch tracks without slowing a lot to pass freights. I remember passing one that was parked on the route. I think the cafe was closed because of lack of revenue. This is really a commuter train with limited stops so few people used the food service. One would think they could have vending machines? Nice work TAA.
I hope your time in Milwaukee was enjoyable. It's my hometown.
I loved the bookstores!
Quite small windows on the coaching stock.That snow makes it look like the Trans Siberian Express!
Running on the UP North…🤔I like!
Nice video
Only if Amtrak and the freight companies could agree on a simple fix for the most practical line you showed. Seems like a bad sibling rivalry between them.
Go to St. Louis Mo. (make sure it’s on a Friday so you can go to soulard market on sat morning and ride the metro link to the streetcar line)
The Amtrak from Chicago to at Louis is a high speed line and goes 100mph plus!!!! If you do go, go in the area where the doors are and hear and feel the creaking and squeaking of the older cars that they upgraded for the line! It’s kind of unnerving.
I wouldn’t consider it high speed, more higher speed, but it’s still good that they upgraded the line
There is a one daily train from Chicago - St. Paul via Milkwaukee called the Borealis
Yep
Once the service to Minneapolis is added, it will be a much more scenic route. I took a day trip to Milwaukee last year, and I took that same train, and the scenery was just suburban wasteland. It was not pretty at all. It was literally just Metra with slightly more comfortable seats. But it was nice not having to drive to Milwaukee and I’d still do that over driving any day. If there is an option where I don’t have to drive, then I’m gonna take that option
As someone who lives consciously car-free, same.
I wish the Hiawatha would just run a clock face schedule. Hourly or better.
I wish they would use the Milwaukee Road Fox Lake line. This was the route Milwaukee used before Amtrak. This route went to Milwaukee and/or Madison.
Fox Lake for Madison, the trains for Milwaukee, the Cities, the Valley, and Green Bay stayed on the C&M through Sturtevant.
Wait until these youngsters find out about the train from Milwaukee connecting to Omaha without going to Chicago.
I know Milwaukee went to Madison and Milwaukee on those tracks. I have a 1964 Milwaukee passenger schedule. The Morning Hiawatha, the Afternoon Hiawatha and some cities trains ran on these tracks. So did the Varsity and Badger trains to Madison. They must have abandoned them sometime after Amtrak. They were not in use in the early 80s. In 1988 the tracks were being upgraded. Wisconsin and Calumet ran a dinner train from Fox Lake to Madison. Today Wisconsin and Southern used these tracks.
@@peterdelestrez8880 The Sioux and Varsity made their last runs on April 30, 1971. I know the guy who did some of the track upgrading for Wisconsin northwest of Fox Lake in the 1990s. Wisconsin and Southern still operate the old J Line into Madison as well as the tracks to Prairie du Chien. Your 1964 schedule will also show trains 25 and 26 which ran from Milwaukee to Savanna by way of Milton Junction and Freeport. Those tracks are long gone.
Thom! I’m going on this line with my dad, also because for Easter, I got a tripod, I also want to get into a horizon car as I never went in those rail cars for at leas 5 years. The place I’m going to is Sturtevant WI, or Milwaukee airport.
Nice! Have a fun trip!
Oh, and also about that issue with the Hiawatha service part of the video I’d like the train to stop in Evanston, Highland Park, Waukegan, and Kenosha.
However, because that’s a lot of stops, maybe it can make it limited for Waukegan and Highland Park because the other a few towns are pretty big, especially Evanston. Also, all of the other routes that share with Amtrak have at least one or two stations connecting Metra.
4:33 Agreed train 🫡
There used to be another train called the Twin Cities Hiawatha that went up to Minneapolis but now the hiawatha only goes to the farthest extent of metra
Metra does not go to Milwaukee
Thank you for this superb video ! The scenery en route to Milwaukee is as flat as a pancake, as you rightly hint ! I completely agree it is a no brainier to extend the UP North line from Kenosha to Milwaukee, and would it matter if the starting point in Chicago was Ogilvie Transportation Centre rather than Union station ? Very glad to hear there will be a daily extension of a Hiawatha service to St.Paul. Many thanks, and I look forward to your return journey !
I don’t think it would matter much, it would be nice to add a weather-proof connection between the two terminals, considering how close they are to each other.
@@Thom-TRA that would of course be excellent ! Looking forward to your return journey to Chicago via Kenosha !
If there were ever to move the Hiawatha to a UP routing, it would likely take the current route to a new connection they would build to the UP “new line” in northbrook and take that to Kenosha Racine and others. But it would not go to Evanston or Highland Park or any of those suburbs
@@Thom-TRA They could combine the 2 stations into 1 mega station
It would matter, as one of the selling points of the Amtrak National Network, such as it is, is connectivity. That's why The Milwaukee Road was the designated route back in 1971 in preference to the C&NW; and there are still people who regret not pushing harder to keep the service to Green Bay running. In the same way that the Empire Builder went on The Milwaukee Road east of the Cities, the Green Bay trains could have used The Milwaukee Road as far as Canco on the north side of Milwaukee.
12:51 It's quite unbelievable
It's the same story with the cafe that's not "really" a cafe on the Empire Service trains that orginate/terminate in Albany-Renssalaer. I always heard this was the case becauese NYSDOT didn't want to contribute funding to operate the cafes on that segment. The 280 series trains to Niagara Falls the, Adirondack and Ethan Allen Express do have actually operating cafe cars. The Horizon-Fleet cars are the least favorite Amtrak equipment I've ridden. I've only ever had them once on the Empire Service. They defiinitely made me miss the Amfleet I's even with their tiny windows on what is one the most scenic routes in the east. I hope they can make the Hiawatha improvements and add frequency as well
I never knew they had horizons so far east!
@@Thom-TRA It was just that once, probably more than 10 years ago. I've never seen them this far east since. I believe there was a couple of times when the Adirondack even ran with VIA HEP Budd equipment a few years back for a few weeks. I forgot the reason for subbing the VIA equipment, and i couldn't make it work to ride because of work.
Thom, love your videos. Do you, or any of your followers, have suggestions as to the best apps to use while on a long distance train trip? Hoping to find something that, in real time, indicates where you are and highlights local points of interest. Any suggestions? Thanks!
I can’t think of any apps perse. The Amtrak website has a train tracker, and if you do some digging in bookstores or online you might be able to find the old route guides. I have one from the Southwest chief.
Would be so helpful for college students to have the branches .
Great video I always thought the Hiawatha was a great service
ᐃᑮᑫᔕᔮᔭᐃ (agreed)
It’s pretty good for Amtrak standards. Could be better, but definitely could be worse
@@Thom-TRA Amtrak should buy the trackage of the Hiawatha north of Rondout from CPKC so It could upgraded to Higher Speeds (and maybe electrification).
Another great informative video BUT, was this a one way trip? Also Can you take THE HOP back to the Intermodal Stop?
Yes and yes
I love the view wtf
Of the Hiawatha? Lol
Nice vídeo. That Street car in Milwaukee is neat. It seems to be quite small, I would say it's sonething in the vicinity of 25 meters. The fact of being free is a nice way to captivate people for the goodness of a modern transit system.
Spesking about goodness, it is nice to see all those plans for the expansion of Huawatha service. But I would Change some stuff a little bit; the services to the Twin Cities should simple be called Twin Cities Hiawatha. Antrak doesn't needs to invent new fancy names for the trains, just re-,use the classic ones. And those trains should be 2 per day, complementing the existing Empire Builder, wich then could be trabsformed into a fast limited stop train from Chicago to St. Paul, and each of the Twin Cities should have it's own station, not just getting SPUD as a single station for both towns. As for frequency, at least between Chicago from St. Paul it should be hourly offpeak and 30 mimutes on peak times.
About the speed on that corridor, it is fast, but a cair cry of what used to be (in 1937, the Hiawathas, trains 1 & 2 were allowed 60 Mph between Chicago and Western Ave, and 100 Mph afterwards, but there were some local restrictions). The line, with the exception of the exit from Union Station and some curves just before Milwaukee Station is 'Tangent as a dash '. It is good for 125 Mph. The same level of speed should be permitted from Milwaukee to the Twin Cities. There's a lot of good track geometry allowing that. This means, at least having Class 7 Track, 'special' grade crossings or under/overpasses, and all those Diamond type crossings should be grade separated ( one could leave them in place, but with such a high frequency service it would create Traffic difficulties, and speed would have to be limited - to 70 Mph or lower - while going thru them. Not a good idea in terms of energy management).
I also like the idea of push pull trains. Allows quick turnarounds.
Another thing; these trains should have at least some type of food service. I does not need to be a fancy thing. Vending machimes can be a good option
Looking forward to the ride back.
As an Evanston-ian trying to use the Hiawatha is really annoying. The only intermediate stop in the Metro area is Glenview and there is no direct bus there requiring a Pace-to-Pace or a Pace bus to Pace-to-Metra transfer both having to work around 1-hour transfers...on a weekday. On a weekend you have to to do the Pace-to-Metra transfer now having to work around 2-hour timetables.
Also I am extremely spiteful of Glenview for getting an Amtrak station and not wanting it. They want to move the Amtrak station to Glenview North, moving it from a centralized downtown to a Park-N-Ride because the trains take away priority from cars along Glenview Road. Additionally they are the biggest proponent against expanding Hiawatha service from 7 round trips to 10 roundrips being against a siding through the town needed to do that, publicly lambasting the "poor ridership" in the process.
I am all for a return of the old C&NW 400 Chicago-Milwaukee service thru Metra and the constantly sidelined Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee Commuter Rail Proposal. There are so many more urbanized areas it can stop ay that would greatly appreciate it. It would remove the the need to route trains into Union Station for Amtrak service. The biggest issue would be the quality of the tracks. While the tracks close to city have been consistently upgraded, the tracks north of Highland Park still have hand operated switches and singal direction signaling which is what caused all the delays during the UP-NW tie replacement project. A lot of upgrades would be needed to get it ready for medium-distance passenger service.
Yeah Glenview is a very questionable location for a station. And the longer I spend in Chicago, the more I wonder if the three agencies of the RTA should consolidate so they can actually offer one product instead of a mismatched patchwork of services.
Amtrak could've used the the CNW Weber subdivision IF IT STILL EXISTED THAT IS.
There's only really 3 ways where the The Hiawatha can be reroute to the UP-N line.
Option 1. Diverging from the MD-N line after North Glenview onto UP tracks that is going to Lake Bluff on the UP-N, least effective option since it would only really cover Waukegan, Kenosha, etc...
Option 2. Using the Former CNW Weber subdivision which would allow an Amtrak connection to Evanston via Central street, Wilmette, etc... However the problem is that it is pretty much impossible to restore it without getting the attention of NIMBYs, Stores and Businesses that maybe get displaced, Thom I'd suggest learning more about the CNW's Mayfair-Weber and Skokie subdivisions.
Option 3. Where the former Cassidy Tires Building used to be and is now demolished to make way for a new Highrise building, I mean they could make this work by Have a portion of the 1st and 2nd floors be Demolished to make way for a Rail connecter that used to belong to the CNW for its Wells street terminal, I dub this Hypothetical Rail connector the Schlacks-Cassidy Railway Connector, not only would it be used by Amtrak for occasional Hiawatha reroutes but it would also allow occasional reroutes of the Metra UP-N line to Union Station and some other Metra RER Services.
Now that you live in dc, can you do a review of shuttle um, and some fun trivia river road is the only route that currently doesn't at all go to umd campus
I’ve ridden shuttle UM for a little bit, but I’ll do a full video in the future!
Charger locomotives look nice with the horizon cars.
They do, I hope they repaint them so the stripes match
They need to add a stop in Gurnee or any other place within Lake County
Agreed
Yes, Gurnee for Six Flags and the outlet mall makes sense. Or perhaps Lake Forest in preference to Glenview, which sometimes gets bandied about.
I highly doubt they would ever move the Hiawatha to the Kenosha subdivision, but if they were to do that, they would likely build a connection to the UP freight line in Northbrook. That being said, it would miss most of the northern suburbs but could stop in Kenosha and Racine
That’s all speculation. Also, i never said I wanted them to move it. Just to add a second connection.
@@Thom-TRA for sure, and it would be a good idea!
Back in the late 1970s there was a proposal by Wisconsin Association of Rail Passengers (WiSARP) to reroute one of the two long distance trains running between Chicago and Minneapolis. We had the Empire Builder and The North Coast Hiawatha and an overnight train Called the North Star that traveled beyond Minneapolis to Duluth. All three of these trains used the Milwaukee Road from Chicago to Minneapolis. The North Coast Hiawatha was proposed to run along the C&NW from Chicago to Fond du Lac with stops in Evanston, Racine, Milwaukee, and West Bend. Then it was going to take the Soo Line to Chippewa Falls with several stops in between including Stevens Point, where I was in High School. At Chippewa Falls it would take the C&NW to Eau Claire and then Minneapolis. There was a lot of excitement about this and I became a member of WiSARP and NARP and helped circulate petitions to support the proposal. However the cutbacks in funding resulted in the the Empire Builder and the North Coast Hiawatha being reduced to less than daily west of Minneapolis and a single train east to Chicago. Then the overnight North Star train was dropped between Chicago and Minneapolis. A month before the new superliners were scheduled to replace the older equipment in 1979, the North Coast Hiawatha was discontinued and the Empire Builder went daily west of Minneapolis. The reroute plan for the Hiawatha faded away and is only a memory.
Oh for the days when one could catch the Morning Hiawatha (MIlwaukee Road) or a 400 on the C&NW! I'm thinking that the UP wouldn't be too thrilled for Amtrak to add to the numerous Metra schedules--my eyes widened when you mentioned a certain Milwaukee bookstore--what is the name and address? Did you relocate back to Chicago from DC?
No, I just moved to DC three months ago
Surprised ,that cafe car doesn’t have vending machines.
The state of Wisconsin doesn’t pay for food service on these trains
I’m not sure about your theory that the cafe car is required for WiFi. The Hiawatha has had wifi for almost a decade, but the cafe cars didn’t show up until Covid
It’s not a theory. I literally researched this.
Amtrak has wifi modems in either cafe cars or cab cars. The reason you didn’t see cafe cars earlier is because there were cab cars. No cab car means they need cafes for wifi.
4:35 Cabbage Cars? Cab-baggage or 🥬
They’re called cabbage cars, short for cab-baggage
There's a rumor going around that there will be temporary service to Green Bay when the NFL draft comes to town in 2025. I hope this happens, and that discussions can go from there to make that a permanent service.
That’s the first I’ve heard of the rumor but that would be a great development
Not a chance.
Looks like the windows were dirty as usual. Amtrak needs to get their act together.
What profession did you have in chicago that let you travel around the mid-west?
I worked with expats. Where they lived, I went.
@@Thom-TRA Thom- Expats from where ..?... I'm guessing the Netherlands, but since you have been EVERYWHERE, they could be from ANYWHERE...
Pete C., in NH
Does this train goes through Montana cities like Missoula to Seattle like it used to again?
What would that reroute do for run time? I'd guess probably 30-60 minutes longer from Chi-Mke.
Not if the connection is right in downtown Chicago. Probably would not add much if any runtime since it doesn’t use the busy interlocking and there’s less freight trains.
I'm in Cleveland. People only "walk around" purposefully.....
Will you come to NYC during the Christmas time to ride vintage Trains?
I hope to!
@@Thom-TRA I hope so too, it's one of the few times you can ride every era of the subway I do know it last from basically around Thanksgiving until February
Wow Tom! This video is right on track!
Thanks!
Does Amtrak head west from Milwaukee to the Twin Cities?
The empire builder does once a day. And next year one of the Hiawathas will run up to St. Paul.
I live in Wisconsin.
Nice
Captain Pike? I didn't know that you travelled on the USS Enterprise.
That being said, I'm happy to see an extension to The twin cities.
Did you catch the part where I talk about the Great River extension?
Hopefully the Great River finds cafe car funding to open it on the eight hour trip. Not everyone can be like us and remember to bring grub from Kwik Trip 😊
I can’t imagine they wouldn’t open it, that’s gonna be the longest Midwestern journey
Interesting that Amtrak services the airport but that they couldn't be bothered to provide a local rail connection to those arriving in MKE by plane. When I visited I took a Lyft downtown and then a local bus returning to the airport. Would love to ride the Hiawatha!
Believe it or not most that board at the Airport station are from the South Side and not Airline passengers. So local service probably would not work.
@@tallguy6055 Yes, there are some trips where boardings at the airport exceed boardings downtown, and any extension of the services toward Madison had best get through Milwaukee quickly, otherwise people who might board at Oconomowoc or Brookfield will still drive to the airport to catch the train the way some currently do.