I think you could do a whole hour on ignition timing, octane, and cylinder pressure. And talk about why intake temp and coolant temp affect chance of detonation. Also why max timing is achieved around 3000rpm, i am guessing there is a phenomenon where as the air gets compressed at a faster and faster rate, it burns faster? I would love to see the day we have in cylinder pressure sensors and knock sensors on production engines, we could compare timing, pressure, and knock sensor to optimize a tune while we drive! You wouldnt have as much reason to require a dyno for tuning. It would change the perfornance and tuning industry.
On marvels mystery oil , don't put it in your gas tank if your tuned close to your octane limit. I made the mistake once . My truck driver brother bragged on the power increase on big rigs w marvels, so I put a few oz in my tank on my 11.4 406 sbc just to see what it was worth. That engine spark knocked like crazy and the cruise temps went up 20* ! I had to drop timing 6 degrees til that tank was burned up. My theory was that it did exactly what marvels claims......it seals the cylinders from the top side of the pistons and increase ring seal . A good thing , I guess, if you have a problem there. My 406 did just fine at 37* w 93 octane WITHOUT marvels . It was completely outside knock limit w it . I really don't think I put enough in the tank to affect octane that much but it did seal my cylinders beyond my fuels ability.
Jay Brown is working on 351C adapters for the FE, and his own cylinder heads and intake adaptive parts using modeling 3D. He is working on an FE head like a Tunnel Port but with pushrods aside and offset rockers.
What was the timing at for peak tq and max rpm for the big bang 351w? Looking for a sanity check on what they are "usually" happy with, even under high cyl pressure, with ethanol. Im going to use the et/mph method eventually.
5:10 This sounds like a situation where at a certain boost level/compression ratio you are octane limited from running what's the term, MBT, minimum best timing, or optimum timing. It wants more timing, but for the current octane, at that smaller cylinder volume, peak pressure after ignition will be higher than the octane can handle. Retarding timing reduces the peak pressure after ignition because the piston being lower increases the cylinder volume. To me this is a clue you either need more octane, or lower compression ratio. This is why I like bigger displacment LS's, same power with less boost, lower intake temp, less chance of detonation, more likely to achieve optimum timing for same power with less fuel. I wonder how lower compression/boost with optimized timing compares to higher compression/boost octane limited where you cant run optimum timing. I guess you could potentially make more power in the high boost octane limited scenario, but it seems like a very inefficient way.
What determines the all in timing point. Was always told to have it all in by 2500 rpm. Programable controller just wondering where the ramp it all in. Lock out distributor set at 38 degrees 454 bbc. Carb No boost.
I want to twin turbo my 394 FE and it likes NA 37 degrees. I am guessing that 20 will be enough. I was considering two Gt35s with Sanderson shorty headers on backwards and into the intercooler and back up to the carb hat with a BOV and a boost regulator. I am hoping for no lag and 6-8 lbs of Boost without having trouble. The engine is 9.7 to 1. I am getting closer. I hope to get 700 hp without destroying everything.
Hi. I enjoy your videos. I have a question. Lq4 swapped into a 85 Chevy C10. Has headers. I'm routing my fuel line from tbss intake to corvette filter regulator down on passenger frame in front of the dual tank selector valve. Im using Summit Racing 6an braided nylon hose and I'm worried it's too close to the header. I wrapped it in a heatshield wrap that velcros on thats rated for 600 degrees. If I were to guess, the closest point is 3 or 4 inches. Should I be ok or should I try to figure something else out? TIA.
@@richardholdener1727 How am I supposed to do that? I'm sure it is since its 3 or 4 inches from a header. Truck isn't running yet. Doing finishing touches.
Hi Richard, are you of the opinion that guys should be verifying their ignition timing with a pointer and timing light on these fuel injected distributorless engines?
Meanwhile me over here running 11 degrees of timing on a vortech TI LS3. It's on 93 and the knock sensors cry if I run more. Makes low 600s on the 93, would love to see what it would make at 20 degrees! But I would need a lot of meth or a bigger pump and E.
We run our forged ls2 with a vortech si blower making the same power. It's tuned with 94 and a good dose of methanol. Making around the same power 630whp on 17degrees 9-10psi
What are your thoughts on an Toyota 3rz N/A motor that was timed with 10 degrees at idle and then timing ramped to 20 degrees by 3000 rpms. It won't take any more timing without knock. 10:1 with 91 octane. Full standalone for tuning. I actually have to pull timing above 4k rpms to avoid knock.
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks for the reply. By the way, love the informative videos you put out! It seems strange that the timing is so low. I've spoken to a few Toyota enthusiast tuners and they swear up and down that these motors typically run 32 degrees all day long. What are your thoughts on what could be causing the large discrepancy in timing?
Thoughts about running a boosted 6.0 on pump gas with a meth injection kit? Using 317 heads with dual springs and stainless valves. Currently at 10.1 compression. No E85 anywhere near me unfortunately. Love the videos man😁
Can't tune a stock ECU... activation switch to ECU... 0 active boost, timing is retarded 10 to 25 degrees... creating higher exhaust pressure. when the intake pressure target is hit the timing map advances to normal running time. base map timing changes depending on fuel "needing a flex fuel sensor for the map calculations", touching it is a waste of time. same fuel from 1980 to 2020. activation switch, "aka" switch relay, relay bank that shuts off spark to multiple cylinders... hot manifolds and it lights off... 😐 response problems
I think you could do a whole hour on ignition timing, octane, and cylinder pressure. And talk about why intake temp and coolant temp affect chance of detonation. Also why max timing is achieved around 3000rpm, i am guessing there is a phenomenon where as the air gets compressed at a faster and faster rate, it burns faster? I would love to see the day we have in cylinder pressure sensors and knock sensors on production engines, we could compare timing, pressure, and knock sensor to optimize a tune while we drive! You wouldnt have as much reason to require a dyno for tuning. It would change the perfornance and tuning industry.
On marvels mystery oil , don't put it in your gas tank if your tuned close to your octane limit.
I made the mistake once . My truck driver brother bragged on the power increase on big rigs w marvels, so I put a few oz in my tank on my 11.4 406 sbc just to see what it was worth. That engine spark knocked like crazy and the cruise temps went up 20* !
I had to drop timing 6 degrees til that tank was burned up.
My theory was that it did exactly what marvels claims......it seals the cylinders from the top side of the pistons and increase ring seal . A good thing , I guess, if you have a problem there. My 406 did just fine at 37* w 93 octane WITHOUT marvels . It was completely outside knock limit w it . I really don't think I put enough in the tank to affect octane that much but it did seal my cylinders beyond my fuels ability.
Jay Brown is working on 351C adapters for the FE, and his own cylinder heads and intake adaptive parts using modeling 3D. He is working on an FE head like a Tunnel Port but with pushrods aside and offset rockers.
You would be surprised at how light and strong an FE is, you can have iron heads even with aluminum intake be at 525 lbs. I love the handling.
What was the timing at for peak tq and max rpm for the big bang 351w?
Looking for a sanity check on what they are "usually" happy with, even under high cyl pressure, with ethanol.
Im going to use the et/mph method eventually.
5:10 This sounds like a situation where at a certain boost level/compression ratio you are octane limited from running what's the term, MBT, minimum best timing, or optimum timing. It wants more timing, but for the current octane, at that smaller cylinder volume, peak pressure after ignition will be higher than the octane can handle. Retarding timing reduces the peak pressure after ignition because the piston being lower increases the cylinder volume. To me this is a clue you either need more octane, or lower compression ratio. This is why I like bigger displacment LS's, same power with less boost, lower intake temp, less chance of detonation, more likely to achieve optimum timing for same power with less fuel. I wonder how lower compression/boost with optimized timing compares to higher compression/boost octane limited where you cant run optimum timing. I guess you could potentially make more power in the high boost octane limited scenario, but it seems like a very inefficient way.
What determines the all in timing point. Was always told to have it all in by 2500 rpm. Programable controller just wondering where the ramp it all in. Lock out distributor set at 38 degrees 454 bbc. Carb No boost.
91 octane pump gas
we look at 3000
I want to twin turbo my 394 FE and it likes NA 37 degrees. I am guessing that 20 will be enough. I was considering two Gt35s with Sanderson shorty headers on backwards and into the intercooler and back up to the carb hat with a BOV and a boost regulator. I am hoping for no lag and 6-8 lbs of Boost without having trouble. The engine is 9.7 to 1. I am getting closer. I hope to get 700 hp without destroying everything.
should be a good place to start
Hi. I enjoy your videos. I have a question. Lq4 swapped into a 85 Chevy C10. Has headers. I'm routing my fuel line from tbss intake to corvette filter regulator down on passenger frame in front of the dual tank selector valve. Im using Summit Racing 6an braided nylon hose and I'm worried it's too close to the header. I wrapped it in a heatshield wrap that velcros on thats rated for 600 degrees. If I were to guess, the closest point is 3 or 4 inches. Should I be ok or should I try to figure something else out? TIA.
feel the hose-is it hot when the engine is running and the hood is closed?
@@richardholdener1727 How am I supposed to do that? I'm sure it is since its 3 or 4 inches from a header. Truck isn't running yet. Doing finishing touches.
Hi Richard, are you of the opinion that guys should be verifying their ignition timing with a pointer and timing light on these fuel injected distributorless engines?
I rarely do but it would be a god idea if you an exact TDC mark-usually done with the head off
Meanwhile me over here running 11 degrees of timing on a vortech TI LS3. It's on 93 and the knock sensors cry if I run more. Makes low 600s on the 93, would love to see what it would make at 20 degrees! But I would need a lot of meth or a bigger pump and E.
We run our forged ls2 with a vortech si blower making the same power. It's tuned with 94 and a good dose of methanol. Making around the same power 630whp on 17degrees 9-10psi
What's the copper tubing trick for detonation detection? Is it a version of a mechanics stethoscope.
yes-bolt the tubing to the head sand listen through the tube
What are your thoughts on an Toyota 3rz N/A motor that was timed with 10 degrees at idle and then timing ramped to 20 degrees by 3000 rpms. It won't take any more timing without knock. 10:1 with 91 octane. Full standalone for tuning. I actually have to pull timing above 4k rpms to avoid knock.
only give it what it wants
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks for the reply. By the way, love the informative videos you put out! It seems strange that the timing is so low. I've spoken to a few Toyota enthusiast tuners and they swear up and down that these motors typically run 32 degrees all day long. What are your thoughts on what could be causing the large discrepancy in timing?
Thoughts about running a boosted 6.0 on pump gas with a meth injection kit? Using 317 heads with dual springs and stainless valves. Currently at 10.1 compression. No E85 anywhere near me unfortunately. Love the videos man😁
yes you can do that
Eric Weingartner has the same conclusion on angle milling one to be like the other. Bad idea. It walls the margins.
👍💪
Can't tune a stock ECU... activation switch to ECU... 0 active boost, timing is retarded 10 to 25 degrees... creating higher exhaust pressure. when the intake pressure target is hit the timing map advances to normal running time.
base map timing changes depending on fuel "needing a flex fuel sensor for the map calculations", touching it is a waste of time. same fuel from 1980 to 2020.
activation switch, "aka" switch relay, relay bank that shuts off spark to multiple cylinders... hot manifolds and it lights off...
😐 response problems