Honda Element - Gauges Sticking, Relays Clicking, Engine Limping, P2646
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- This 2003 Honda Element seems to be possessed. The gauges stick or don't work at all, lights flash, relays click, it cranks but won't start. It also has a P2646 code for VTEC sensor circuit low causing the engine to go into a limp mode.
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The question that we all want to know:
Did you charge your aunt, or did you fix it for her for free?
So just a heads up Wes, this may come back. There is a gasket with a screen built in behind the power steering pump. It’s just a 2 fastener cover. That gasket likely needs replacing if there is a come back. Also, the gasket between that screen and the spool valve should be replaced with OEM Honda. The element community has MANY conversations and there isn’t a non OEM solution to these problems that lasts more than a few months.
The old part is likely a duralast or other junk part.
I would immediately return that Gearwrench oil pressure test kit and get your money back
I assume it also doesn't work with cartridge filers?
this is why i buy old pre disaster tech cars.. why wont the car run,,the antenii is dirty.. bs problems. 10 parts run by 1 sensor.told a guy new cars are sht, he said the old ones wont do 200,000 miles..i said bs..i said, i dont have limp mode or a dumb ass computer..that controls your life..
Here’s what I freaking love about Wes… like, one day (or sometimes the same day) he’s scoping out modern car electronics and re-soldering clusers and than rebuilds some 80+ year old tractor transmission, fabbing up missing parts on a lathe and everything in between the two.
Absolute legend!!
You are correct, he’s a wizard, which comes in very handy for ghost chasing!
You Hit the Nail on the Head
Will you start a fan club?
very gifted man. He has what is known as thinking logic. He sees it in his head and finds the problem and fixes it.
Welcome to the world of Field Service and a one man band.....
Always wondered if Wes' patience is inherent or the grace of editing. He never has a 4 letter toddler meltdown like I do on a regular basis.
I didn’t feel let down. I actually felt uplifted. You did great for your Aunt. You took your time to find out a few issues, and executed your professionalism to fix the problems. Well done Wes! Kudos to you. You took care of a family member, and you should be proud of that. I was very impressed.
I second the sentiment!!
Gotta take care of your aunt or your name would be mud at the Thanksgiving table.😊
You are excellent with electrical weirdness. Every mechanic I know hates electrical stuff.
Pine hollow auto diagnostics and South Main Auto... Those two and Wes are my 3 favorites on here.
I’d love to have a channel on which to showcase some of the electrical oddities I come across in my small shop. It’s an idea I’ve kicked around many times. Unfortunately I don’t think I’d be a good enough narrator or camera operator and would drive people nuts!
@@97marqedman i feel like good info and good personality make up for a whole lot of evil when it comes to the ole videos
Pin soldering is a very useful skill to have. I've been teaching myself a bit here and there. I troubleshoot and repair CNC machines. Learning this skill has helped me greatly when trying to pinpoint weird issues. Is something doesn't make sense electronically or it's impossible to trace, start taking a look at all your mechanical connections. even the ones done by a machine. I hope your aunt got back on the road reliably. Respect Wes.
A good way to learn it is to buy kits online and make them. Clocks, sound bars, buttons, gizmoes. You find them online, easily.
@@aserta And they are very inexpensive! I love those Chinese electronics DIY kits. And 99 times out of 100 they are complete and work, as long as you assemble them correctly. Cool stuff!
How cab you tell there are broken solder joints? It looked good to me on the video.
@@mikespain8655 The solder is still stuck to the pin but there is a gap between the solder blob and the PCB if you look very closely - the pins have been pushed slightly through the PCB taking the solder with them.
Wes used to do CNC machine repair on this channel
WTF Wes? No, I am *not* feeling let down. I was however again bloody amazed at your persistence and your ability to find and follow the clues to eventually resolve the issues with your aunt's car. You sir are a *_steely eyed auto electric and mechanic man._*
*Thank You* for another _diamond in the rough_ video which id greatly appreciated. 👍👍
Just love Wes videos. He has such a easy and layed back manner. Forgive me if this sounds insulting, it is not meant to be ( I'm an Englishman you see) but I find has has an almost hillblilly approach to diagnostics that is belied by extreme logic, intelligence and experience. What a smart fellow. Max is no slouch either - where rodents are concerened!
That is the secret two pronged approach to car repair. Mr. Wes the Wizard and his faithful pest control pup.
So you describe this fine engineer as "hillbilly"? Look brit, you know dick about hillbillies-go sit down!
I remember the awesome Car Talk episode where Tom & Ray were discussing a Honda Element,
and Tom said; “what element is it made from? Uglyminium?”
Hee hee. Good times. 😀
Operative word here: Cluster. You're so good at diagnosing the undiagnosable. As someone who can't diagnose anything more than what a 12 volt test light can tell me, your detective skills are nothing short of amazing. Great job on this one. Your Ant or Aunt should be very happy with the repair!
It’s that time of the season. Just repaired an 08 F350 with a burned trace on the cluster circuit board. The board had a corroded spot at the top that appeared to be moisture intrusion. Jumped the burn with a copper strand and reflowed the connector pins. Everything else looked good under the scope. Also noticed a new rust spot on the cab roof directly above the windshield.
It’s a solder and Bondo day here.
I used to see them burned up on Ford clusters back in the aftermarket stereo days, when someone would add a stereo, and then connect the stereo's ground to the gauge light lead. Ford and GM run the gauge light feed wire with the main switched power wire, so the unknowing would often assume it was a ground - even though that wire is often blue...
Then the first time you turn on the headlights while the new radio is on, it pops the fuse, and no more gauge lights or taillights... Add a little jumper-foil to that popped fuse, and you will learn that those traces on the floppy printed circuit board are the weak link in that circuit...
Worked at Honda for years - that VTEC code pops up a lot, and here are some of the things that have ultimately caused it:
1) Poor quality oil filter/no check valve on it. Replaced with OEM filter to fix.
2) Low oil in the engine (yours was a quart low and sometimes that’s enough, since the code occurs under higher load/higher rpm)
3) The VTEC solenoid assembly itself
4) Elements have their passenger windshield wiper fluid nozzle positioned directly over the switch. Water will leak past the nozzle, fall onto the switch connectors and cause poor connection/cause corrosion.
I have seen all of these things cause the code. 9 times out of 10 it’s the solenoid but these things are the unusual ones. Hopefully this helps.
Going through this problem right now. Thinking of sending this reply to him. I’m wondering if that will piss him off he’s been in the business a long time.
@@d2d601 doesn't mean he knows everything, we never stop learning.
That was a head scratcher. Yet, you found the main issues and fixed both of them. Well done!
Harbor freight sells a cool “universal funnel kit” comes with a bunch of adapters to thread into the oil cap. Found the green one for Hondas also works on the big diesels. Definitely worth the investment in my opinion.
Nice to see a car mechanic have a proper soldering iron, flux and a good tip cleaner. Still use as much 60/40 solder as I can get my hands on. Nothing beats the lead
Eutectic...
I like to call them Honda Elephants due to their shape. The gray accent coloring on this model is perfect!
2:42 I think that’s the sound of the hamster wheel needing new bearings.
My thought exactly.
My grey 05 Honda Elephant resents your remark...as does the hamster that resides therein.
I have to say, Bravo Wes, Bravo. The second I looked at the gauge circuit board, I noticed the cold solder connections. But than I did circuit repair for Depot aircraft for years. And I also like that you used a very good quality soldering station. That Weller solder station is what we used in the Depot Repair. And the reason why is that it is an ESD safe and government approved soldering station because there is no voltage on the tip, so you can't static discharge to any sensitive component while using it. That was a huge issue in such repairs. I had a similar issue with my dad's old 96 S10 truck. It had major issues with the Anti-lock brakes. I opened up that module and totally obvious there was a cold solder joint. Soldered all those connects and everything works great again... Thumbs Up!
You are amazing. I repaired TV’s until they became unrepairable. Bad solder connections were a common cause for many failures.
As usual I'm impressed with your diagnostic skills. Needless to say I'm enjoying your videos 🙂
Another great vid. Those of us with Elements (mine has 265k, my buddy's has 405) appreciate how simple and reliable these cars are.
I don't own one, but I work at a Honda dealership where at least one of the other techs has one (customer's car that got traded in due to mechanical issues that he ended up buying off the used car department. He Fixed it and has dailyed it since). Hondas are pretty much the gold standard of simplicity and ease of maintenance in post-OBD2 cars, or they were until recently. Only one that still came closeish was the Fit.
@@SkylineFTW97 uh, I’m gonna go ahead and disagree with you there. Had a ‘10 Accord that developed excessive oil consumption (1qt every ~1000 miles, less than 75k on the odo) and I went through the whole recall/warranty testing process just to find out the car was already on it’s second engine. I bought the car with about 30k on it. Honda basically told me to go stick it where the sun don’t shine, and I was stuck with a car that would run itself dry between oil changes if left to it’s own devices
Then there’s the whole Honda auto transmission debacle
Meanwhile, I have a ‘12 4Runner that has 180k on it and doesn’t burn/leak a drop of oil, and hasn’t needed a single repair that wasn’t a wear item since it was new
I also have a ‘95 4Runner with 215k on it that leaks oil from every gasket possible and still loses it at a slower rate than that pile of garbage Honda did lol
Toyota has been the gold standard for reliable vehicles, before and after OBDII, at least in my experience
Mine is a baby with only 163k, but these videos are solid gold for the home mechanic.
@@basedWisco715 Honda Element?
I'm pretty sure 80s cars are more reliable than these pieces of junk
Had this same issue with my Ford Connect with broken joints on the cluster and the can us was going crazy as it couldn't work out what was happening. Loads of lights on and a no start situation were all there. Used old skool fully leaded solder to repair it and it's been perfect ever since 👍🏻
Hey Wes,
Something that can cause problems with the VVT solenoids is the fine mesh filters on the feed ports. They plug up with gunk and starve the VVT solenoid/actuators. Rest of the engine will have perfect oil pressure. It's kinda common on higher mileage examples with less than excellent maintenance. The back one is VVT solenoid housing seal, the front one is beside the intake manifold and behind the accessory bracket, and kind of sucks to get at. Think they are only a few dollars each at Honda.
yeah.. I hate it when they put small screens on things like this. Either let the trash flow through it, or put a little filter on the side of it that can easily be changed, one or the other, but the screen is a terrible idea.
That reminds me of the time Eric from EtCG used a no name engine flush that a vendor wanted promotion from and smoked a VCM because it closed all the screens. Changed new ones and clogged them again. It was awful. Oil starvation.
How to say... WES is simply amazing ! 😳
To be able to solve such complex mechanical problems...
Congratulations again and again.
I wish I had a mechanic like Wes near my home ! 🤗
JC (France)
Wes always has the weirdest issues. I love it
All I have to say is that your aunt is one lucky lady, nice diagnosis on the problem. I don’t blame you for NOT working on the panel for others, a price our sue happy society must pay. Great job, thanks for the ride along sir.
Wix filters are owned and manufactured by Mann+Hummel to the best of my knowledge. I service some of the equipment in their NC facility from time to time, and even though it is a German owned company, they’re one of the few remaining manufacturers I work for that has real blue collar craftsmen making products from raw materials here in the US. I always enjoy going there and getting to work with their mechanics. I definitely feel good about buying their products.
Looks like they own Purolator too. Good info to know.
I was on a 'non-standard' ship in the Navy and we had a lot of non-milspec electronics. Common problem with connectors, due to poor design and constant vibration. We engineered strain reliefs for all connector-to-circuit board sites to stop the problem. Many mechanical engineers think that solder is a structural material; it is not. It is purely for electrical connectivity. Must add a structural element (bending, screwing, twisting, etc) to hold the connector in place, or it will always break the solder connection.
Thanks, Wes for another great example of the fault determination process and resolution.
I was thinking about that too, and...
They've figured out how to add a flex agent to paint, for things like bumper covers, why can't they do so for solder??
Hey Wes, when you get the chance please check the forward mounts for the rear lower control arms, the body/frame rots away on these cars and can be a big problem! For your Aunt's safety i'd give it a check, and if it's not bad i'd saturate the area with fluid film to help it stay alive longer. As usual, love watching you work.
I see she left you the family rate payment in the glovebox! 😂😂😂
Half now the other half when done.
Sometimes you just do all you know to do and then take a shot in the dark.When all tests and information point in the same direction, an educated guess IS in order. I would have replaced that sensor/solenoid as well. GOOD JOB Wes.
Dont ever feel we are let down. love your videos and talent. Seeing those dry joints gave me many memories of my electronic career. must have done tens of thousands of those on ecus and televisions etc. Great stuff Wes.
I really enjoy watching you work these problems out. Some of it isn't anything I would ever do, but that doesn't mean I don't learn anything from it. (Like using a ratchet strap to hold something out of the way)
I resoldered the cluster connector on a neighbors Ford Focus a few days back. I'd recommend removing the existing solder (solder sucker or wick) if you are going to be resoldering with lead based solder.
Did it have the crazy, over-engineered, locking lever, securing the connector to the cluster, like it was a main processor on a computer motherboard? When I replaced stepper motors on my 2005 Mustang GT, I found it to be that way, and it took a few moments for me to figure out how to unlock it - but I don't think I had to run back in the house and consult the internet, to figure it out...
Wes, love it when you get the simple line prints come out, nice set up on the electronic repair bench. Thanks for the update on the harvest.
Good job, as always. I have fixed so many things that had bad solder joints. Seems to be a real problem, and not just for cars. It is so much fun when you are dealing with two problems that kind of look related but aren't. Intermittent failures are not fun, at all.
I remember the times I was working on my family's cars. All at no charge and they were never really quite satisfied with the work performed. Then, I started asking to be paid for my time and the requests faded away. They were just taking advantage of my good nature. The "bastards" Hahahahahaha. Love your channel and the work you do Wes.
I know that's right!
One of the best days of my life was the day I sold my 2003 Honda element. I was always working on that thing, and it wasn't just minor issues. The word junk comes to mind. I feel for your Aunt and hope she chooses to sell hers too.
Nice find on the bad solder joints. I remember fixing a few late 90s Caravans this way when I was out in the indi world.
I do not know how you keep on working on such stuff and still remain sane--I used to swing a spanner a bit years and years ago and things were simple.....Not now
We all live in a world with sounds. We dont mind the grain trucks, the spray planes, the combines. We watch those channels too. Love the noises. Most of us live in places with honking horns and traffic.
Blood is thicker than water, thanx for helping the Lady. It probably would have been very expensive for her to have paid a dealer for that repair. Great job Wes.😃
Wait till the VTEC kicks in yo'
Vtec is awesome.
👀🤣
That VTEC solenoid and switch assy usually needs replacing every 50K or so.
Your diagnostic acumen is outstanding, and I am addicted to this channel. My 27yo son sent me here, and I've never left. I love the way you talk through your thought processes in a calm and easy-to-follow way. Well done, Wes. I wish you could clone yourself and send the clone to us in Australia.
Nice job, Wes. Good sleuthing.
Could have entitled this Honda Element - What a cluster....
I wish your shop was closer to my home, you would get all my automotive business! Your perseverance is amazing and very commendable.
Well done Wes, as always. Mann filters are german brand and are one of the top brands in Europe. Greetings from Poland
I bet your Aunt appreciates you. All that intermittent stuff is tricky. Good Work.
Thanks Wes, all good info for possible future use.
I had a problem with the cluster on my Freelander - traced to a corroded connector behind one of the headlights.
As for repairing instruments, I can recall successfully replacing the hairspring on a speedometer - you could do that on vehicles made in the 1950s.
Mann+Hummel is the parent company/owner of the brand WIX. Multiple problems, the call is coming from inside the house! Thanks for the great content Wes!
The filter cover on the front of the head opposite the solenoid block is a place they leak plus the screen filter gasket catches debris. I only use Honda parts also. Thanks Wes!!!
Electronic tech here. Old, grumpy, opinionated, retired. Lead / Tin solder my favorite. 63/37 mix. Had to 'upgrade' to lead-free crap but mastered it. 1 suggestion. FLUX THE BEJEEZUS out of it especially if you're repairing using lead free junk. Solder wik or solder suck the old crap out first, re-flux, solder. Clean with flux remover, can't remember what I bought for myself last time, but I got it from Mouser or DigiKey.
Happy Motoring! 😉
First off wes i would watch damn near anything you post i like what you do secondly that was a hell if a diag and find with that cluster and broken solder joints as someone that has been soldering since the age of 6 i have to say that was some good work too
I came here for Max and the wonderful white knuckle towing service. In reality I came to see your skill set and diagnostic knowledge be put to the test. I believe it's safe to say I am not disappointed in the results you managed to get here. Good job Wes. Another good video as always. I'm already looking forward to the next one be sure to add a few more segments of the pup and wife for me :)
Always educational to the nth degree 😊 much respect ✊
Once upon a time when I was working on cars, visibility of some parts was poor, I would try to memorise the location of the part with which I was dealing. Then I would shut my eyes and let my fingers do the mapping out. Two things have changed, access is now as good as the visibility and my fingers no long know what they are doing. Well done to have the skills and persistence to chase this problem chain to its conclusion. Dry or fracturing solder joints are a total pain to resolve until you find which of the few thousand candidates are guilty. Your aunt should be very grateful for all your hard, dedicated work. Faulty from new parts, rate along with failed soldering. Two days ago, I unboxed six non-automotive items, a third, had some completely missing solder connections, It was a work of seconds to solder them, but why did the customer need to repair new parts?
Hi Wes you are a genius at fixing these problems I know it’s a head scratcher most of the times but you defo have a great gift right there mate said it before awesome mechanic who always gives 100% thanks for sharing mate and all the best to the family 🔧🔧🔧👍👌
Nice work! Circuit board repairs (within reason) are more satisfying to me than just replacing it! Good job Wes! let's hope no part two!
Last time I was this early, the nurses put me in an incubator!
Brought me back to watching you repair crusty old CNC control boards.
You know, Wes, I never realised how lucky we are in South Africa to have a majority of 4 cylinder engined cars. Thankfully I don't throw spanners (that's wrenches to you guys!) anymore. I just can't imagine trying to work on a transverse mounted V6 or V8...what a bloody nightmare, and this Honda, although a 4 banger, (it seems) is enough to make me head for the hills! I remember old school cars where I could almost climb into the engine bay and get comfortable to do some serious repairs...and I only stopped working on cars about 20 years ago. And as for the electric systems.... As for that repair on the cluster, that's the kind of thing I would do, just to prove a point to myself and the manufacturer.
Although the vtec switch may be changed out, the oil can be about a half of a quart low and trigger the issue. Keep the oil topped off! Thanks for being a heck of dude and sharing with us!
I had the same problem on my 05 Element (P2646). It was giving me a harsh kick @ 3k rpms. Wouldn't rev any higher in gear, just harsh bouncing. At idle it's more of a soft bump @ 3k rpms. The easiest solution was to go OEM replacement. No issues. This happened at 181k miles.
Down Under in Sunny Oz, we say “Aunt”, never pronounced as “Ant”. Love watching your Work Wes.
As an Element owner great video..as always great video.
Used to have a 2005 Element. I had every problem featured in this video. From the glitchy cluster to replacing the VTEC solenoid multiple times. Buy the genuine Honda part. Every aftermarket one I bought failed in short order.
Also, there is a second oil screen over near the power steering line that will also impact the VTEC when clogged.
You are a good mechanic and diagnostician. Good troubleshooting. Good work.
Try 'great'
Nice work Wes, I would have to say that your not the typical mechanic. Breaking out a solder iron and fixing an issue is awesome! I had a Ski Doo gauge issue that was driving me crazy and I pulled it apart and look and found tons of bad solder joints. Soldered up and they work just fine. I loved your comment on "don't send the cluster to me for repair!" LOL
Great work making multiple repairs. Helping the family out of a bind should be worth a holiday meal or two!
i found a web site that explains the P2646 code and as you rightly diagnosed that the oil sensor had failed. could be down to clogged filter on the sensor or low oil or the incorrect oil that was used on the last oil change. The article which was very informative stated that the correct oil Honda recommend was a synthetic SAE 5W20 but you probably already new that. Enjoyed the video though.
2:42 fun fact these early honda elements came with a built-in Geiger counter for those extreme adventurous types.
I love your brightness on diagnostics.
Great video. Impressive diagnostic.
wes there are not many who could do or even have the patients with that honda but you crackedit brilliant watching David
What looks like money in the glove box, take it and throw at the problem, that usually makes it work. Thanks for some great videos.
The best way to check the VTEC system is to floor the accelerator pedal when driving, if it doesn't bug or cut fuel, you're golden. Honda tech here....
That relay reminds me of when my grand daughter asked me why my Honda goes tikka tikka when driving. Turns out her mother stole the car for a trip to the shops, and used the key to unlock, instead of the remote. The alarm was non op at the time, so the flashers were going for the whole trip....
Pretty sure this is my favourite RUclips channel now..
Our "cheddar eating friends" appear to have repurposed half a $20 bill in the glove box. Send in Pup!
Great start to my day. Completely amazed at the level of skill Wes has.😃
My OCD has a problem with that terminology - I mean if the mice are chewing up our stuff and peeing all over it, then they're not really our friends. They can try their luck befriending my cat...
Trailblazers and basically all early 2000s GM SUVs and trucks have the same issue with this pins. I had to do the same repair on my trailblazer. I got to admit your soldering skills are pretty damn good.
Needs more crickets, great video as always.
There's just one, last, cicada in my back yard I feel sorry for him.
I can't wait to see you work on that goldwing in the back 😃
My ford focus 1.6l 2004 had exactly the same issue, the K&L line pins on the board of the dash were broken. Since the dash acted as some kind of gateway/router for the other modules in the car, everything went haywire when that thing tripped. Especially funny when you went 180Km/h on the Autobahn and the whole dash went x-Mas berzerk on you... Ford wanted 1800€ to fix it, I fixed it my self...
Wes, you simply have amazing skills.
No letdown here. I have been chasing some little stuff that in impossible to reach places and knowing you even have issues made me feel better.
Hi Wes Another great fix on the Honda - PCB, solder faults are always fun to catch - well done. Please can you fix the Harley rear tire - it's triggering my OCD, I've noticed it in two episodes now.. best regards J
It's not a Harley! (In Arnold Swartzenegger kindergarten cop "It's not a tumor" voice). 😁
@@woodhonky3890 What is it ? Sorry I ride dirt bikes
@@jamesal0 Honda Goldwing
RUclips recommending me Honda Element videos makes me miss my mom's old '03 Element... great video though! Really interesting to see these weird issues
Excellent diagnostics and repairs.
Need more snarky humor.
Thanks for taking time to make good videos.
Wes another great educational video. Thank you very much. I watch your videos so much that i feel like we know each other for a long time. But i have a question: What's up with the Gold wing over there? Is that yours ? or for repair?
Noticed Mann filters manufacturing the VW filters I’ve purchased at Napa. Their canister filters seem thin walled (the steel used) - they flex!
Another great adventure though Wes!
Mann + Hummel makes Wix filters. I think if you look at the packaging or on a Wix filter itself it'll have their logo somewhere on it. Even on the banner of Wix's website actually.
Interesting! I have a Nissan Navara (Frontier) where the cluster lights dim sometimes and a quick thump on the dash brings them back to normal. Has been like that for at least three years. Maybe it's time to have a look at it, but you can't rush these things.
Eric the car guy should know what’s haunting this.
I really enjoy your 'go till you get it' approach. There aren't many of you out there these days.
nice work, there were some weird things going on and it could have gone much worse.
I'm always riveted by whatever issue you're trying to resolve and I've learnt so much from watching how you go about diagnosing and resolving each of them. Keep up the good work Wes!
Just wondering whether you traced the noise in the engine bay (@2:44).I assume that the new solenoid unit sorted this problem ? Great content once again.
Dry joints on the cluster. Bad solder, stressed connector + hot cold temperature changes. Use to see it in car CD players and other electronics! Your repair method and tools top notch!
Great vido, is there any chance that due to being so low on oil that the pump could have been sucking air causing some of the issues? Very nice soldering job on the cluster.Thanks for the video.
Love watching you work Wes when your in your element.
Wish they made Elements again. One of the best vehicles I had.